Romans
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Gen. 2-3 Gives the account of God creating Adam and Eve, the garden, tree of life and tree of knowledge of good and evil. It says that when God created Adam and Eve He said they were very good (not perfect, not redeemed, nor incapable of sinning).
Gen. 3:7-10 tells us that after Adam and Eve sinned, they hid from God when they heard speaking while walking in the Garden. They felt ashamed and were afraid of God and tried to hide their nakedness with fig leaves.
Gen. 3:21 tells of how God killed an animal and used the skin to make coverings for Adam and Eve.
Gen. 3:15 is God's gospel promise of a Savior to Adam and Eve.
In this chapter of Genesis, God did not kill Adam and Eve physically as soon as they sinned. He was gracious to them and gave them both long lives and may children to populate the earth. But they died spiritually and also, the dying process began in their bodies.
FALLEN MAN
Gen. 6:3 says that man is continually evil and all of his thoughts and actions are wicked.
Romans 1:18-21, 25, 28 says that mankind freely chooses to substitute idols for the true God. And that man has exchanged to truth of God for a lie. That they did not choose to retain God in their knowledge so God gave them over to a reprobate mind. And vs 29-32 list the ways mankind freely gives themselves over to sinful living with pleasure in doing so.
Romans 3:9-19 , says that both Jew and Gentile are all under sin. That there are none righteous, there are none that understand or seek after God, none that do good and do not fear God and that all of humanity is guilty before God
Romans 3:23 says that all humans have sin and fall short of God's glory (His perfection and expectations for man to live an obedient life of service and worship of God without exception).
Romans 6:2 says that we are dead in sin
Romans 6:23 says that death comes as a wage for our sinfulness.
If your answer is anything other than, "Yes I'm absolutely certain that my sins are forgiven and that Heaven will be my home," then this important message is just for you. The Bible teaches that you need to know and believe these things to settle this matter of your eternal destination:
You must accept that you are a sinner.
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" ( Romans 3:23). No one is exempt from this indictment. Everyone has sinned. Romans 5:12 says, "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." No one is perfect and no one can live up to God's perfect standard. We are sinners by nature.
You must accept that as a sinner you owe a penalty.
"For the wages of sin is death" ( Romans 6:23a). Because of our sin we owe a debt. This debt is a spiritual death or separation from God in the lake of fire known as Hell. Hell is not a figment of someone's imagination or only a figurative term. Hell is very real. It is a literal burning place. It's not a place where you go because your friends will be there and you want to have a good time. It is a dark, lonely, seething, burning place, and it never ends. It continues to burn for all time.
The worst part is, there is nothing you or I can do on our own to avoid it. Outside of Jesus, it is our final destination. If you are depending on your church membership to get you to Heaven, beware; it's not enough. If you pray a lot hoping to get to Heaven, don't depend on that; it's not enough either. Even if you give a lot of money to a church, it's not enough to gain Heaven. The word "believe" means to trust, to depend on, to rely on. To believe on the Lord Jesus Christ means that you accept the fact that you are a sinner, that as a sinner you owe the sin penalty, and that Jesus Christ died on the cross, was buried, and arose again on the third day to pay the debt you owe.
The Holy Spirit does not bear witness with our spirit that we are the "worms" of God. No, He encourages us when we are in times of weakness and trembling, and in spite of all our failure says that we are the children of God.
A remarkable thing is stated in the following verse:
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. ( Romans 8:15)
The word Abba is an untranslated Aramaic word. The translators of the first English Bibles, who had great reverence for the Word of God, who believed it was indeed the Word of God, would not translate it. Abba is a very personal word that could be translated "my Daddy." We don't use this word in reference to God because of the danger of becoming overly familiar with Him. But the Spirit affirms it and causes us to realize that God is our very own Father through regeneration and by adoption.
There is an experience of salvation for the child of God that he does not have to seek. It will come, for it is impossible for the Holy Spirit to regenerate a sinner and for Christ to dwell in the heart and there not be a corresponding experience.
Do not look for an experience! Do not probe your feelings! Do not use psychoanalysis! Believe God! Take Him at His Word! Trust His faithfulness! "Let God be true, but every man a liar" ( Romans 3:4). Christ says, "Him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out" ( John 6:37). Will you come?
He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. ( 1 John 5:12)
God bless.
Thank you GiGi for your thought-provoking comments here, as also on the Character Traits of God, now His Sovereignty & being Superlative. So, to continue here.
Going through your list of mankind's condition before God & God's Work towards man's renewal, I will list those, & other points, with verse(s), & in the order that I understand them.
a. Man's total depravity ( Romans 3:9,10,23).
b. God's Love & Mercy for all sinners ( John 3:16: 'loved the World' of sinners, not only the Elect; 2 Peter 3:9: 'God suffers long, not willing that any (all sinners) should perish'.
c. God's Foreknowledge, Predestination, Calling, Justification, Glorification ( Romans 8:29,30: Paul shares this order pertaining to believers, where the logic is, if God foreknew those who would be His, it is understood that He also knew those who would reject Him). And through His Knowledge, God chose us before the foundation of the world to be holy & blameless people ( Ephesians 1:4).
To what have we been predestined to? To be conformed to His Son's Image (v29), according to God's Purpose ( Ephesians 1:11), & to be adopted into His Family ( Ephesians 1:5).
Calling. Various types of Calling given in the Bible, but pertaining to salvation: 1 Peter 2:9, 'having called us out of darkness (our sinful state without God) into His marvellous light (our forgiven state with God & His Son). Do we then just transition from darkness to light without a work of God the Spirit in us? And it is to this point that our discussions have focussed. Paul in Romans 8 is speaking to believers, so the matter of repentance wasn't mentioned, but may have been implied here.
However, Paul in Acts 17 spoke to the idolatrous Athenians, 'that God calls on all men everywhere to repent'. And here we read that unregenerate men were called to repentance. Continued on Page 2.
I am unaware of any information that God gives us as to how he made the choice of whom to save.
He is Crystal clear, however, that that choice was not made on the basis of any righteousness, any goodness, any worthiness, any action that we might take.
What He sees in every one of His elect is what we read in Romans 3:10-18. A condition no different than any who remain unsaved.
It is only God's mercy that He would save anyone.
God's elective program is God's business. It is not our business.
If God has saved us, it is our business to proclaim the true gospel of salvation by Grace alone. And God will use that proclamation as he sees fit, according to his will, not ours.
And if we are trusting in or proclaiming a gospel where God does anything less than 100% of the work to save us, it is not the gospel of the Bible.
The short answer to your question is God did not pay for the sins of everyone.
He paid only for the sins of those whom He chose to save. God calls these the Elect of God.
They are not elect because of any inherent goodness or worthiness within them as we read in Romans 3:10-18 and similar passages. They are not elect because they are more likely to respond to the Gospel than any one else. All mankind is DEAD in trespasses and sins. Eph 2:1.
God works in the Heart of those whom He is saving to CAUSE them to respond. And He gives them a New Heart, a New Resurrected Soul. This is becoming Born Again. It is a true MIRACLE of God. It is all the MERCY of God as He does 100% of the work to save His Elect and they enter into His Rest.
Romans 9:15,16
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Ezekiel 36:24-27
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A NEW HEART also will I give you, and a NEW SPIRIT will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
So what must we do to be saved? The answer is: We can do nothing! But we can cry to God for mercy as He commands us to do. Like Publican: " Lord have mercy upon me a sinner", in the very Real Hope that God might save us.
Joel 2:12-14
14 Who knoweth if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him; even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God?
You quoted Romans 10-8-10.
Note the emphasis in these verses on "believing in the HEART""
Jeremiah 17:9,10
The HEART is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? I the LORD search the HEART, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
And then there is Romans 3:10-18
There in lies the problem.
We cannot and will not "Believe in the heart" until God gives us a NEW HEART, that is a New Resurrected Soul.
Ezekiel 36:26
A NEW HEART also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
We must be Born Again as God applies His Salvation to those whom He saves BEFORE we can believe with our whole heart.
That is Salvation. And our Belief, our Faith is the RESULT of God applying salvation to one of His elect. And is not because we have "accepted" an offer of salvation.
Unfortunately what you have stated puts mankind in control of salvation. And if I may paraphrase what you are saying somewhat crassly:
God has done His part and now it's up to us.
And there certainly are verses when taken in isolation that might support that view. (see my responses to Spencer and Adam)
That conclusion, however, flys in the face of many other statements God makes about the Nature of Salvation, the Nature of Mankind, and the Nature of God's Justice and Judgment.
Romans 3:10-18, Romans 9, Ezekiel 36:24-32, Eph 2:1 and many many more.
God did not write the Bible in a way that is easy to come to truth. In fact He wrote it in a way to reveal truth if we follow the principles that God lays down, but also to hide truth. 2 Timothy 3:16 and Matthew 13:10-17.
God also has a time table for revealing truth from the Bible. Romans 16:25,26 and Daniel 12:9. Christ the perfect preacher taught many things about His death and resurrection, yet His disciples did not understand until after the fact.
Most importantly we must be looking to God Himself, praying that He might open our spiritual eyes and ears as we search the Bible comparing Scripture with Scripture. This is not quick or easy business.
You asked; "When these verses use the word "world", is it talking about every single person in the world?
Referring to
1 John 2:2 "And he is the propitiation for our sins: (AND NOT FOR OURS ONLY)...BUT ALSO FOR THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD.
Yes David here's my understanding.
( John specifically included the Greek word holou, which means "whole, entire, all, complete.
Your second question you asked; "How does your understanding of the nature of salvation fit into Romans 3:10-18? Or Romans 9?
My understanding.
Because of Romans 3:10-18 the invitation goes out to everyone in the WHOLE world.
Just as Romans 3:20 goes out to everyone in the whole world.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
If the Ministration of death which slew us went out to everyone then the Gospel and a drink of the living water invitation went out to everyone.
If the ministration of death that slew us doesn't goes to everyone there would be no need for the Gospel.
Paul said when the law came we died.
(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Romans 5:13.
David here's what we have in front of us and the scope of our debate.
Either God created EVERYONE, then "by the law" slew EVERYONE but only gave the ability to a few to recieve the invitation and condemn the rest to hell.
Or,, Good created everyone,
by the law, slew everyone and brought light into the world that Light, which lighteth EVERY MAN THAT COMETH INTO THE WORLD, as John 1:9 says to offer salvation to everyone.
Which do you believe?
Thank you for responding.
I also believe those verses and others like them. They are in fact from the mouth of God, Himself just as is every verse in the Bible.
But they must be understood and interpreted in the light of everything of the Bible teaches about the nature of salvation.
So, I would ask:
What does it mean to "believe"?
When these verses use the word "world", is it talking about every single person in the world? Or is it saying that God's salvation is not dependent upon what nation we come from. And that salvation is not based upon nationality in any sense.
How does your understanding of the nature of salvation fit into Romans 3:10-18? Or Romans 9?
No. You have not understood my third poaragraph correctly. And I quote again:
"God did not look down the corridors of time before He created the world and saw that some would respond to the gospel and some would not. What He saw is the NO ONE would respond. But despite that dismal fact, God in His Mercy chose to save some. God does not tell us how He made that choice. But He did make it crystal clear that it was not because He saw that some were more likely to respond than others or that there was anything inherent in any one of us deserving of salvation. By nature we are all in rebelion against God and will never come to Him."
God ofcourse knows all things. From eternity past to eternity future. What God knows regarding who will and who will not respond to the Gospel, or who will seek Him with their WHOLE HEART, or who will be obedient to His Law in a way that would be pleasing to Him, is summarized in Romans 3:10-18 and other similar passages. In otherwords NO ONE, let me say that again NO ONE apart from the God's sovereign mercy and action in their life will BELIEVE with saving faith which is a gift of God.
The Bible clearly teaches that ALL Mankind is DEAD in Trespasses and Sin. Eph 2:1 And it requires God to first "draw", and then "save" those whom He has chosen to salvation by giving then a New Heart, i.e. a New Resurrected Soul as we read in Ezeikiel 36:26. This is becomming Born Again. That action is entirely God's action. It is not dependent on any action or response on our part. Although it will GENERATE a significant action and response and change in our behavior and attitude toward the Law of God, the Bible. God does this through the HEARING of His Word, the Gospel, as God applies that Word to the Hearts of those whom He is saving.
God's elective program is God's business not our business. Read Romans 9 very carefully.
Why would we want to put our trust in "our action" or "our choice" for our Salvation?
Furthermore we know from the Bible that the penalty for even the slightest transgression of the Law of God is eternal Death. And in order for anyone to be saved, Christ, must have paid the full penalty required by the Law. And if that penalty has been fully paid, we no longer stand guilty before the Law of God and the Law cannot condem us. These are the Elect of God. We have no idea who these are. Only God knows. God's election program is God's business, not our business. But we know that God has obligated Himself to save everyone for whose sins He paid the full penalty.
But salvation does not end there. When God applies His salvation to one of His elect, He gives them a New Resurrected Soul, i.e. a New Heart in which, in itself, cannot sin. 1 John 3:9. And we become a New Creature in Christ 2 Corinthians 5:17. But we still have a body that has not yet been saved and that still lusts after sin. And though, once saved, we will have an earnest and ongoing desire to repent, to obey, to love God WITH OUR WHOLE HEART, we can, if we take our eyes off of Christ, fall into even grevious sin, as did David. But what was David's reaction when confronted with his sin? Read Psalm 51. So if we have become saved sin will become increasingly anathema to us. And we will long for the Day when God compleates our salvation by giving us our New Resurrected Spiritual Body.
Thank you again for your response. I have appreciated our back and forth on this sublect and I don't mind at all rehashing this topic that we have discussed in the past. Because in my view, while every teaching from the Bible is important since we are dealing with the Word of God, Himself, there is no more important or critical teaching than the Nature of Salvation itself. And if we are trusting in a salvation that is not the salvation of the Bible we are trusting in a lie, in escense a false gospel. That is the snare that certainly National Isreal fell into. And I believe, that the local churches and congregations, to one degree or another, have also fallen into the same snare in teaching a gospel where man himself, and not God ALONE, is ultimately in control of their salvation.
I think that to understand the true Nature of Salvation, one must understand the true nature of mankind apart from God's mercy in salvation. The Bible, I believe, is crystal clear in this regard. We read in Romans 3:10-18 and many other passages on the Bible the terible spititual condition of each and every one of us apart from salvation. We are Spiritually Dead and it is God that must make us Spiriyually alive " Eph 2:1. Just as Jesus raised Lazarus from physical Death and Lazarus played no part in that whatsoever; God must raise us from Spiritual Death to Spiritual Life and we play no part in that whatsoever.
God did not look down the corridors of time before He created the world and saw that some would respond to the gospel and some would not. What He saw is the NO ONE would respond. But despite that dismal fact, God in His Mercy chose to save some. God does not tell us how He made that choice. But He did make it crystal clear that it was not because He saw that some were more likely to respond than others or that there was anything inherent in any one of us deserving of salvation. By nature we are all in rebelion against God and will never come to Him.
More to come
Thank you, Jesus shamed the leaders of Jerusalem about traditions, Matthew 15:3 and we are told in Colossians 2:8. My understanding is when we believe in our heart that Jesus is the Son of God and the only way to salvation we are justified by God's grace, Romans 3:24 and being baptized is being obedient to God's word, being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: We then start the road to sanctification by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost, Titus 3:5.
Jesus Christ has done everything necessary for our salvation and all we do we do in is name including being baptized, Colossians 3:17. He paid the penalty that our sins deserved by His sacrificial death on the cross. His death satisfied God's justice and turned away His wrath from us. God calls us but we must answer we must believe and be obedient to Him to be chosen, Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
When we are baptized in the Name of Jesus we have put on Christ, Galatians 3:27. Being baptized is obedience, Ephesians 2:10 2 Thessalonians 1:8, every believer who has opportunity will be baptized in obedience to the Lord Jesus Christ. Baptism is the result of salvation, not the means to it.
Our obedience strengthens our faith, obedience shows our love for God, and our obedience to God's word is essential and it is not works. Those who are obedient are imitators of Christ and are willingly submitting to the authority, His will, and the word of God.
God bless,
RLW
Malachi 2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?
Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
1 John 2:22-23 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
Philippians 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Acts 10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Luke 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
God bless,
RLW
Jesus was conceived of the Holy Ghost, Matthew 1:20 of the seed of a woman/Mary, Genesis 3:15, and born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God, John 1:13. Jesus grew up the same way that we do, Luke 2:40.
He was subject to the pulls of the flesh. He was tempted and influenced by Satan, Luke 4:1-2. He had a will and human desires, Luke 22:41-42. Although Jesus was filled without measure with the power of the Holy Ghost, and gave all things into his hand, John 3:34-35 Jesus humbled Himself and was obedient unto death, Philippians 2:5-11.
To be the payment for sins of man and to be the Savior of mankind and destroy the works of the devil, Jesus had to be a human, Hebrews 2:14-18, the promise God made was to Abraham and his seed, that was Jesus the Messiah/Christ, Galatians 3:16.
Jesus the last Adam came into this world sinless as the first Adam and had to be laden with what we are as humans. The man Jesus, Romans 5:15, had to endure and overcome sin and rise above the influences of Satan to become the payment for the sins and this atonement made way for our deliverance from Satan's bondage, Romans 3:21-26.
He also was prepared to be a merciful and faithful High Priest, Hebrews 4:14-16. God sent His own Son to condemn sin in the flesh that the law could not do that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled, Romans 8:3-4.
Jesus the Son of God a human being had to deal with life as we do. He lived in the same time, space, and constraints as we do. He was born under the law, He became tired, He became hungry, He was subject to persecution, subject to pain, subject to the Roman rulers, He had to deal with all the things the same way we do, and all was the for the will of the Father, not His, Matthew 26:42.
Only in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth do we have hope, and are saved, Acts 4:12.
We are to hold fast in our faith to the end.
God bless,
RLW
Hey brother just one last thing to consider.
Daniel 9:24-27, in this prophecy, there are seventy weeks or 490 years determined unto Daniel's people and the holy city to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Have these 6 things been fulfilled in Jesus the Messiah, and the judgment of it carried out in 70 AD? If so, all of this prophecy has been fulfilled in the past.
1 To finish the transgression. To break or violate, as a law, civil or moral; the act of transgressing. Psalms 32:1 Isaiah 53:5-11 Romans 4:14-15 Galatians 3:18-19 Hebrews 9:14-15.
2 To make an end to sins. Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Matthew 1:21 Hebrews 10:8-11 John 1:29 1 Corinthians 15:3 1 John 3:5 Psalm 32:1 Romans 3:21-26 Romans 8:3.
3 To make reconciliation for iniquity. Reconciliation is an element of salvation that refers to the results of the atonement. Colossians 1:20-22 Isaiah 53:6 Isaiah 53:11 Romans 5:11 Ephesians 2:16 Titus 2:14 2 Corinthians 5:18-19.
4 To bring in everlasting righteousness. In conformity to the demands of the covenant and according to God's will. Isaiah 61:10-11 Romans 3:21-26 Romans 5:17-21 2 Corinthians 5:21 1 Peter 2:24.
5 To seal up the vision and prophecy. The greatest prediction, which runs like a golden thread through the whole contents of the Old Testament, is that regarding the coming and work of the Messiah, Jesus. Daniel 9:23 Matthew 11:11-15 Mark 1:14-15 John 5:36-40 John 6:27 Acts 3:18.
6 To anoint the most holy. The high priest went into the holy of holies once a year with the blood of a sacrificed bull. Jesus our high priest with His own blood anointed the most holy not made with hands once and for all, forever. Hebrews 9:6-14.
Jesus said it in John 19:28-30.
God bless,
RLW
It seems you are struggling with the fruit of salvation.
This is an area we all struggle with to some degree.
However if you are a born again believer and truly "TRUSTING IN THE WORK OF CHRIST AND HIS SACRIFICIAL WORK ON THE CROSS" those wages has been paid in full.
Sin brought on death.
That's why we are to be born Again by the working of the Holyspirit. This is more precisely "Born from above"
Now we have Christ spirit working in us.
John 16:8 says the Holyspirit will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment.
He will reprove it or show it to be wrong.
No amount of preaching, pleading, or pointing of fingers will bring about the conviction of sin, unless the Holy Spirit is at work in the sinner's heart!
So God bless you Bryanna!
The most basic sin of which the world is guilty is unbelief.
Once a person responds to the Spirit's conviction and turns to faith in Christ, the other sins he practiced will be taken care of. It is the sin of unbelief "a refusal to trust in Jesus is what is primary.
Romans 6:20-22 reads,"For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed?
for the end of those things is death.
But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Justification, Righteousness and Sanctification.
We have "been justified by his blood" ( Romans 5:9), and part of that justification is an imputation of His own righteousness.
Christ righteousness has been imputed over to us.
Romans 5:8-10. 2 Corinthians 5:21, and Romans 3:22
sums it up as well.
That does not mean we automatically do what is right, that will come through the process of sanctification.
See part 2.
Romans 5:12 says Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
The fact is that we are all born with Adam's sin and hence at enmity with God. Our hearts are as Jeremiah 17:9 says "desperately wicked." No one does good ( Romans 3:10-12 and in Psalms); and we are estranged from the womb ( Psalm 58:3). So the first issue is the thought that anyone is "good" which inevitably comes from comparing ourselves to another "worse" person like Hitler (unless we are that bad ourselves and we can't appeal to anyone worse; in that case we probably wouldn't want to concern ourselves with doing good deeds. Our deeds also; BTW are evil; even our best deeds as "filthy rags". ( Isaiah 64:6). This "grace Gospel" as it is known is obviously taken from Romans as a primary source but reflects many scripture verses. Or as someone once said "a hundred percent sinner needs a hundred percent savior" (can't seem to find this entire phrase quoted by anyone).
Now death; of course in the law comes in two ways; MURDER or justifiable killing whether to exact a punishment "a life for a life" (part of Deuteronomy 19:21). It also is involved with the wars and conquests of Israel with the admittedly hard verses about exterminating entire peoples including women and children in certain circumstances. The understandable aspect of this is when the descendents of the Nephilim (or angels with women producing giant hybrid offspring) were exterminated; being an aberrant being without and eternal soul perhaps the proper interpretation of Isaiah 26:14. That is a deep study; but no doubt this is easier than explaining extermination of human beings. Those nations which were conquered had common practices of child sacrifice with idol worship; therefore it could have saved the children from a worse death. Genesis 15:16 shows how God waits until iniquity is full before utter destruction.
The Word of GOD is quick,and powerful,and sharper than any twoedged sword,piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit,and of the joints and marrow,and is a DISCERNER of the THOUGHTS and INTENTS of the heart-the Word is GOD-, neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His sight:but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of Him with whom we must render an account-Heb.4:12-13.
By the way,Jeremiah says:The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked:who can know it?I the Lord search the heart,I try the reins,even to give every MAN according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings-Jer.17:9-10.
The Word made flesh,the Word is GOD,self-executing,He who calls Himself JESUS,He Himself said:...that which cometh out of the mouth,this defileth a man-Mt.15:11.Death and life are in the power of the tongue-Prov.18:21.
JESUS said more:Mt.15:18-19:
18But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart;and they defile the man.
19For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts,false witness, murders,adulteries,fornications,thefts,blasphemies:
For meditation and testify:
Death and life are in the power of the tongue.
We could or can understand that everyone dies through the mouth.
Compare this deep mystery of the death with Romans 3:12-18, combined with James 3:1-12,mainly verses 5to8.
But what does the Word of GOD say?1Cor.15:26->The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.Now, now, the death is an ENEMY,
so we must fight against this ENEMY and be transformed, knowing that the sting of death is sin- Matthew 15:19;the strength of sin is the Law. Yes, transformed and be changed( Philippians 3:20-21),for this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality,understand?
But thanks be to GOD, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
"R" GOD IS RIGHTEOUS
He always does what is good and right. He never deviates from being sinless. He always thinks, says, and does everything righteously from pure and holy motives. There is no shadow of "darkness" in Him as to evil. His righteousness is far above whatever righteousness man can perform because even our righteousness is tainted by sin.
Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" In all of history, there has never been and strictly human person who is sinless. so, there has never been a strictly human person who is able to save himself from the condemnation of sin let alone anyone else.
Because of the complete and utter fallenness of mankind, there can be no redeemer from among humanity. There is no one whose righteousness is so pure and complete to be efficacious for the removal of God's judgment upon ALL of mankind.
It takes the righteousness of God to save mankind and God determined that his righteousness would come to save mankind by His divine Son becoming a man, righteous in every way, since He is God and cannot be unrighteous, and dying as our sacrifice.
The divine Son of God was incarnated, as John says in John 1:1, 14, ad became man for our sake. As God said in the OT, it is God alone who is Savior (Is 43:1, 11; 45;21; Hos 13:4) therefore, Jesus is God who is our Savior. If He is not God, then He is not our Savior because no strictly human man can save anyone. It is God who saves, who, though God the Son, took on human flesh and nature to be the only Kinsmen Redeemer who can take a way our sin, be a perfect, worthy, and more than sufficient sacrifice for the sins of the whole world, and to be able to bear the complete wrath of God for mankind for all their sins. No mere human can do that,
In Titus 2:13 Jesus is called our "Great God and Savior"
John 1:1 calls Jesus God:" the Word was God"
Whether in the "Arminian" or "Calvinistic" camps; God's sovereignty and man's inability to save himself apart from His grace is fairly universally accepted. The issue comes in as to whether mans' "free will" acts to make a decision whether to follow or not follow Christ and "accept" Him into their hearts. Both camps will hold to Romans 10:9 related to a verbal and heartfelt confession accompanying saving faith. I would contend that it is not as some like to call it "decisional regeneration" that occurs as a result of something we say; but that what we say is a reflection of God already moving one towards repentance as scripture states it is a gift of God ( 2 Tim. 2:25 and also stated in the Book of Acts). We are truly saved "apart from the law" ( Romans 3:21) by grace; but of course Paul makes it clear that we aren't granted a "license to sin" once we have escaped from the wrath of God. Nothing we can do will earn us grace; and more importantly there is no desire in unregenerate man to follow God; at best man can try to avoid the consequences of sin which of course makes us all as Judas Iscariot who betrayed Christ yet realized he had betrayed an innocent man and thus hung himself. (see 2 Corinthians 7:10). It should be obvious how essential the doctrine of grace is; as all other eligions and even Christian cults will offer a combination of faith in Christ and works as needed to be saved; or it is asceticism such as Eastern religions offer that seem to bring a utopia for someone after doing good works after a lengthy cycle of death and rebirth (reincarnation) which of course fundamentally is opposed by Hebrews 9:27. Often it is another Christ; whether presented as as sage or great prophet which is expounded that we should follow rather than the true Jesus who was the Son of God. John 8:24 makes it clear that we must believe that "I am" truly meaning that He is the Christ. ( Matt. 16:13-20). ONLY CHRIST CAN REVEAL THE TRUTH TO A MAN.
As even the apostle stated in Romans 7:10, "And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death"; could there be any Law given, whether to Abraham, Moses, & Israel, as pure & righteous as those Laws were, have given to any of them, life (i.e. the promise of eternal life)? Each one had to stand by their faith before God, the Law giving them absolutely no justification before God ( Romans 3:20).
Likewise, the Law can have no bearing on those now In Christ, for we stand by faith alone in Christ's finished Work for us & for all who would come to Him & believe on Him. Do we then remain lawless? Rather, the Law of Faith ( Romans 3:27) now stands, as it did before to those under the Old Covenant, but now this Law (of Faith) is energized in us by the Holy Spirit giving us power to live triumphantly & acceptably before God - that which the Old Law could never do & was never designed to do. Abraham wasn't accepted simply on how well he kept whatever Laws were given him, but that it was his faith that took him beyond the letter, where he obeyed God, claimed God's Promises, & looked beyond what the physical eye & mind could apprehend ( Hebrews 11:8-10).
This amazingly started on a previous post where Paul was said to not be saved or atleast "not yet"
Paul said he was saved. If he didn't make it we're in trouble!
Paul said he was a master builder, and he helped lay the foundation which we are to build on.
Paul said a crown was laid up in heaven for him. 2 Timothy 4:7-8.
We have faults in our walk down here on earth tho we thrive for perfection.
Our thriving is evident we are not perfect. Another way we know we're not is that we die.
God requirements is perfection. If you ever sinned it's already to late if you feel you can come from under the atonement of the LORD.
We're left "Naked" without "CHRIST RIGHTEOUSNESS"
The Idea that you and I can be wrong about any matter suggests that we are not perfect.
How could this same corrupted person that struggle "WITHIN" judge anything to correct it to a degree he or she cannot reach? ( God's Holiness that we cannot fully comprehend)
Ignorance is no excuse!!
Only given an earnest of the Spirit can we fully comprehend the Holiness of God? No!
Romans 3:23-25 is where we stand.
God bless.
Part 7. J Vernon Mcgee. (Paul and James View Works)
When it comes to the word works, surely Paul and James must mean the same thing, do they not? No, they absolutely do not. When Paul speaks of works, he speaks of the works of the Law. I wonder if you have ever noticed that? Will you listen to him,
Therefore, by the deeds [or works] of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight; for by the law is the knowledge of sin. ( Romans 3:20)
So, it is clear that when Paul is talking about works, he is talking about the works of the Law. Then turn to Galatians 2:16 where we read, "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." Here again Paul is talking about the works of the Law.
But James talks about the works of faith. Could he be any more explicit than when he says,
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith [not the works of the Law, but that which faith produces] without works is dead? ( James 2:20)
Therefore, if man's faith does not produce works, that man's faith is dead. Here we find that the two men have two extremely different sources of works in mind. James, that of faith; Paul, that of the Law.
Paul and James Use Abraham to Illustrate.
At this point, let's bring the teaching of these two men to bear upon the life of God's great servant, Abraham, in the question of justification, for we find both Paul and James using Abraham as an example. This is of keen interest as we see that Paul lets us look at Abraham when God made His first appearance to him, and James goes to the end of his life when God made His seventh and last appearance to Abraham. Paul goes back to the birth of Isaac and the time when God called Abraham - at which time this man had no works and had very feeble faith, but nonetheless a faith sufficient to move out with God. And when he moved out with God, he was justified by faith.-
Justification.
Sanctification.
Glorification.
If you are a Christian, you are guaranteed all three steps (see Romans 8:29-30).
You are forever justified, you are being sanctified, and you will for sure be glorified.
1 Corinthians 6:11.
All three of these things are from God's grace, not because of anything you have done or will do to earn them. see Ephesians 2:8-9.
You cannot earn your justification, you cannot achieve your sanctification, and you cannot merit your glorification.
You can do nothing without Christ.
John 15:4-5.
Romans 3:10-24.
God bless and Good night.
Part 2
God made Jesus Lord, Acts 2:36, made is thee Greek word ginomai that means to come into being, to happen, to become. This was foreordained before the foundation of the world and this Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world, 1 Peter 1:19-20 Revelation 13:8, foreordained the Greek word proginosko means to know beforehand to appoint or decree beforehand.
I see too many Scriptures that do not agree with the doctrine. I hope this makes sense. This is Scripture without man's knowledge or wisdom 1 Corinthians 1:22 Jeremiah 10:10 10 Malachi 2:10 Mark 12:32
Paul wrote these; Romans 3:30 Romans 15:6 1 Corinthians 8:6 2 Corinthians 1:3 2 Corinthians 11:31 Ephesians 1:3 Ephesians 1:17 Ephesians 3:14 Ephesians 4:6 Colossians 1:3 1 Timothy 2:5
Peter wrote this; 1 Peter 1:3
These are Jesus's words Himself; Matthew 27:46 Same in Mark 15:34 John 14:28 John 17:3 John 20:17 Revelation 3:12
What this says to me, there is only one true God who is the God and Father of Jesus,
These Scriptures are clear without our wisdom or knowledge do not agree with the doctrine of the Trinity. I do thank you and again I hope you do not consider me a Gnostic that would be sad, they are more of a philosophical like the immortal soul came from Greek philosophy, I am believer and follower of Jesus our Lord and savior.
God bless,
RLW
Part 1
Thank you and I do not mind, I just sent this to S Spencer, I once believed Jesus preexisted but some things just did not feel right, 2 Cor. 11:3-4 stood out. I will do my best to give my understanding starting with Rev. 3:14. The beginning of the creation of God. God has no beginning or end, I understand this as God's plan for all creation began with Jesus, God's Son and all creation came after until all is made new, we were in this plan.
God declared the end from the beginning, Isaiah 46:10. God brought forth Jesus from His plan in the fullness of time, and Jesus's physical existence began with the miraculous virgin birth of our Lord from heaven, Ephesians 1:10 1 Corinthians 15:47. How this virgin conception was done by the Holy Ghost I have no clue; Jesus is the begotten Son of God if anything is begotten it has a beginning.
Jesus was the second man who came into this world without sin, Man had to live a perfect life to fulfill the law that was placed on man to make it void, Romans 3:19-20. Jesus as a man did this and paid the price that through Him is the only way to our Father John 14:6. My understanding of Jesus being the first in God's creation and everything came by Him and for Him and through Him and when Jesus completed what purpose His Father sent Him to do Jesus became heir of all that God created after Him, Hebrews 1:2. I will do my best to give my understanding although we may not agree we can see and study the other side.
See part 2.
God bless,
RLW
And thank you for those very good questions.
I have tried to address some aspects of those questions in my earlier comments regarding the Nature of Salvation and what it means to be "Saved", although inadequately I'm sure. Any truth that we may have come to understand from Scripture is only by God's Mercy as He may choose to open our understanding.
I will attempt to further address your questions in more detail, which may take several post and time. Ultimately, what I say is worth nothing. Only what God declares in His Word, the Bible, the Entire Bible, is important as we seek to "compare scripture with scripture" in order to come to Truth.
The starting point must be our condition, apart from God's Mercy in Salvation, which God summarize in Romans 3 in language that we don't like to hear:
Romans 3:10-18 As it is written, There is NONE righteous, no, NOT ONE: There is NONE that understandeth, there is NONE that seeketh after God. They are ALL gone out of the way, they are TOGETHER become unprofitable; there is NONE that doeth good, no, NOT ONE. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Emphatic and all inclusive! This condition applies to each and every one of us throughout time once Adam sinned. And because of Adam's sin, God has delivered all of mankind (as all of mankind was in the loins of Adam) and the Creation itself under Bondage to Sin and Satan.
We are Spiritually DEAD, body and soul, and are under the sentence of DEATH, body and soul, required by the Law of God for each and every sin, every violation of the Law of God, that we commit each and every day of our life.
And we CANNOT escape. Is there no hope?
More to follow.
Or perhaps that God, before the foundation of the world, knew that you would be wise enough to accept a salvation that God offers and therefore chose you to become saved.
That is not what I read in the Bible concerning the nature of mankind that is DEAD in trespasses and sin and in BONDAGE to sin and Satan.
Nor is it what God declares regarding the nature of Salvation itself.
You are describing a salvation of grace + works. It is a do-it-yourself salvation program. Where Christ has done His part and now it's up to you to appropriate that salvation. That is a salvation plan that to one degree or another is taught in virtually every church of our day and is not the Salvation of the Bible.
Romans 3:10-18
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Salvation is all of grace. And is 100% the work of God. If we have become Saved, Our FAITH Our BELIEF Our OBEDIENCE is the RESULT of God having applied His Salvation to our life. It is in no way whatsoever the REASON nor the CAUSE of our Salvation.