Discuss Revelation 20 Page 14

Wesley.

You said the Millennium is a time of cleansing and you referenced

Ezekiel 39:12 And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land."

Here in Ezekiel is a clean up after Gog and Magog, It's 7 months, the Millennium will be 1000 years. It won't take neither for the Lord to cleanse the earth,

He created the heavens and Earth and all that was created in 6 days,

I believe the battle mentioned in Ezekiel and the battle in Revelation is two separate events because of location and the players involved.

Even so the Millennium wouldn't be a period of cleansing when the battle would be afterwards when Satan is released.

Joel said ALL NATIONS will be included in this battle.

I believe it will be a time of testing to show prideful man what's in his heart, where you see man is put in an ideal environment and still rebel in those conditions, it shows the heart of man, " INCURABLY WICKED "

note:

The church won't be here on earth during this period, we're already raptured up!!

Next you see the devil cast into the lake of fire, and then comes the judgment,

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: ( AND THEY WERE JUDGED EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO THEIR WORK'S.)

( BELIEVERS WONT BE JUDGED FOR OUR WORK'S, WE HAVE BEEN IMPUTED CHRIST RIGHTEOUSNESS!! ) WE came through the narrow gate.

I believe this is where you will see

Matthew 7:22-23. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

God bless

Hey Wesley

The 1000 Year Kingdom will be on the earth, not in heaven, ( Revelation 11:15) It will be a time when Lord Jesus and those chosen to rule the nations with an iron rod ( Revelation 5:10). We know from ( Revelation 20:7-10), nations after the 1000 years.

The thousand-year reign of Jesus, will be after the great tribulation of Satan, the beast and the false prophet. The second coming of Jesus with the army of angels, ( Matthew 24: 29-31) ( Mark 13: 24-27) the first resurrected saints that meet Jesus in the air, ( 1 Thessalonians 4:17) Jesus' feet land on Mount of Olives ( Zechariah 14:4)



The beast and the false prophet are cast into the lake of fire and the ten king's armies of the beast that came up on Jerusalem to battle are destroyed. ( Revelation 19:11-21) and Satan is chained and put in the bottomless pit.

Then the judgment seat of Christ for those that have been chosen to reign with Him in this Millennium Kingdom. ( Revelation 20: 4-6) People will live and die during this time. and when it is over, Satan will be released and bring an army for one last battle and fire comes down and Satan is cast in the lake of fire. ( Revelation 20:7-10)

White Throne Judgment of the rest of the dead. The goats and the sheep, "some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt", "they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation" Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. And then ( Revelation 21) The marriage and the marriage supper. Jesus said at the last supper ( Matthew 26:29) ( Mark 14:25) ( Luke 22:18) when it is new.

The purpose of the thousand-year reign is to put this world in order and allow for the fulfillment of several promises God made with Israel, David and others.

This is a brief view of what I see from my study, I am sure some, maybe you, will disagree and that's ok, may it cause study.

RLW

Vlcki,

According to my notes, only the sealed saints (all) are transfigured (resurrected) at the final trump.

( Revelation 20:5) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

( Revelation 20:5) but the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

( Revelation 20:12-13) The second harvest takes place after the thousand years.

Hello, I appreciate what you wrote there and agree with all your points except the book of life. It's my opinion that we're not written in the book of life until we're first judged by God. I think God knows all and might even take notes in such a book.

I think many assume we're 'saved' instantly when we start following Christ. While the Bible says we can have assurance of salvation if we follow Him, but I'm not aware of any verse saying we're instantly saved and will skip judgment and are in a book of life, as if its a guest list for heaven.

I looked up the 4 verses you posted about 'book of life' and they don't say that all Christians have their names written in the book of life, it doesn't say who or when their names may be written in the book, and doesn't say this comes before judgment day. The Exodus reference suggests that Moses's name was written in a book by God. It doesn't call it the book of life. Moses was also a special person appointed by God. God also replied with this: And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book. And the Bible says everyone has sinned.

1 Peter 1:5 - "...salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."

Doesn't say you have salvation now, doesn't say you have it instantly and aren't judged, it says revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:13 "...hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;"

This says grace isn't even given to us until the end at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 20:12 - indicates the book of life is used on the day of judgment to review what all have done. Either way all will be judged.

2 Corinthians 5:10

Romans 2:16

John 12:48

Hebrews 9:27

Revelation 20:12

If you have more evidence that says the moment you say respond to an altar call you're instantly in the book of life, or that the moment you decide to follow Jesus you are written in the book of life, please let me know where... Thank you.

Brother Kevin, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and His understanding.

We were predestined to become SONS OF GOD and all that that implies.

Christ was the FIRSTBORN (Son of God) of creation; Christ is now CALLING OUT the ones in the age we are presently in; to be a PREISTHOOD (Sons of God; recreated into HIS exact likeness). These are the children of the first resurrection. These are the ones that will judge the world with Christ and bring righteousness to the earth. This is one of those HARD THINGS to UNDERSTAND. At the death of your body you will be GIVEN a glorified body (you will be GIVEN the FULLNESS of Christ). You will become a consuming FIRE like Christ. You will be OMNIPRESENT; able to judge in the form of SPIRIT, just like Christ; or stand in visible form, just like Christ. Man can't comprehend this so they teach traditions of man; you go to heaven and set in you easy chair eating chocolates. This is what all the saints that have gone before us are doing RIGHT NOW. They are MINISTERING SPIRITS in glorified bodies ministering to the ones (us) that are going to be HEIRS of salvation. ( Hebrews 1:14)

Revelation 20:4 The thousand year reign is not literally one thousand years; but symbolic of the ONE DAY (day of the Lord). This one day (a day called today) has been going on for 2000 years and will continue until all of Christ's PRIESTS have been put in place.

Obadiah 1:21 And SAVIOURS (Sons of God) shall come up on mount Zion and JUDGE the mount of Esau; and the kingdom (CHRIST IN YOU) shall be the LORD'S.

Hi Cheryl,

As I'm not here to say who is going to Heaven and who isn't. Just to put my view to your question with a couple verses. First off there are no surprises with God and He knows exactly who is going to spend eternity with Him. As in Ephesians 1:4-6.

I believe us in the Lord who are His and worthy to be with Him for eternity go to be with Him when our physical body dies. A couple verses: 2 Corinthians 5:1-10, Philippians 1:21-23.

As it is written there are two resurrections. Here in Revelation 7:9-17 are all types of people in Heaven around the throne of God and Christ. Also Revelation 20:4-6 which speaks of those who are worthy of the first resurrection who live and reign with Christ and shall not see the second death. This is before the great judgement which is the end of the chapter.

As also that confirms that not all shall go to be with Christ right after our physical death. Only those worthy of the first resurrection and the rest of the dead lived not until the second resurrection before the great judgement.

God Bless.

Hi Cheryl,

The Bible says we will all first be judged. Not just non-Christians, not just "sinners."

Ecclesiastes 12:14

2 Corinthians 5:10

Matthew 12:36

We also know that some will be confident and assume they'll go to heaven, but won't get in.

Matthew 7:21

To me that means that no one is going to either of those places until after judgment day:

Revelation 20:11-15

Hebrews 9:27

1 Corinthians 4:5

And finally, if people don't go to heaven or hell when they die, where else do they go? Here's what the Bible says:

Job 14:12

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

1 Thessalonians 4:17

I believe just as 8 hours can pass in the snap of a finger will it seem like a snap of the finger for those "sleeping" will awake and rise to meet Jesus in the air then face judgment. This took time to put together and paste all these verses here for you, so I hope you likewise take a moment to hover over them and read them. I care.

Terry, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

There is only ONE LIFE, and that life is CHRIST.

Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine, the soul that sinneth (believes not that Jesus come to destroy DEATH and the GRAVE and replace it with LIFE (CHRIST), IT SHALL DIE.

In Christ; LIFE. Not in Christ; DEATH.

Good Morning. Gog is the king of his kingdom that is called Magog. In the Old Testament you will find Gog and Magog fighting against the Jews in the book of Ezekiel. Today anyone, any system, any government or church who fights against Gods people are considered enemies just like Gog was the enemy of the Jews in the past.

Good Morning. Good question. I think the fact that the last verse says that whosoever name is not in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire shows us that our souls never die.

Mishael,

The number is given:

Revelation 5:8-11

8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and ;thousands of thousands

Do the math: ten thousand x ten thousand = one hundred thousand, plus thousands of thousands = one hundred forty four thousand. Anyone that claims that they are worthy, or measure up to be selected for the firstfruits resurrection should also count themselves as the elect. Otherwise, know your place and wait till the 2nd resurrection.

Revelation 20:5

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

There is a huge commentary on your verse. Use this feature to glean every shred of knowledge

How To Find the Commentary Box:

When you you enter this website you will see 2 boxes. Top one says Search Box.

The 2nd one you must dial in your scripture you want more info on. Choose that one.

The chapter will appear. Touch or click your verse. It will highlight Yellow.

Scroll down until you see these boxes. Select Commentary Box.

Other Translations for Revelation 20:4

*Bible COMMENTARY for Revelation 20:4

Discussions for Revelation 20:4

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[on this website, they use commentaries from well known, Educated, Scholars.]. There may be much posted or, a minimum.

You can do the same thing on Google, but you have to carefully select your Commentary. Wesley is always a good choice. I read from only the first 5 listed. Beyond that you encounter doctrines.

Compare everything to actual Scripture.

Sometimes the Commentary contains many other scriptures that under-gird thoughts. Read all those too. Mishael

Wesley's Notes for Revelation 20:4

20:4 And I saw thrones - Such as are promised the apostles, # Matt 19:28|; Luke 22:30. And they - Namely, the saints, whom St. John saw at the same time, # Dan 7:22|, sat upon them; and Judgment was given to them. # 1Cor 6:2|. Who, and how many, these are, is not said. But they are distinguished from the souls, or persons, mentioned immediately after; and from the saints already raised. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded - With the axe: so the original word signifies. One kind of death, which was particularly inflicted at Rome, is mentioned for all. For the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God - The martyrs were sometimes killed for the word of God in general; sometimes particularly for the testimony of Jesus: the one, while they refused to worship idols; the other, while they confessed the name of Christ. And those who had not worshipped the wild beast, nor his image

Mishael,

What elite group of people is John talking about being resurrected, standing about the throne, and reigning with Christ a thousand years?

Revelation 20:4-5

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Who is the rest of the dead?

Sister Mrs. Joanne Peters, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

Ephesians 4:5 There is one body, one Spirit, even as you are called in one hope of your calling;

You are the ONE BODY (as everyone else), the SPIRIT (of God; CHRIST) lives IN YOU, and gives YOU everything he is, this one hope (in God's eyes a finished work) is that through the WORK OF CHRIST IN YOU we will be delivered from sin and death (flesh, the ways of the world) into the glorious liberty of the Sons (daughters) of God; the EXACT LIKENESS OF CHRIST. You do nothing on your part, IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD, you are just a vessel made only to hold CHRIST. You (sinful flesh) died on the cross of CHRIST; YOU were raised with Christ and Christ lives for you, gracing you with all he is; love, peace, truth, perfection, mercy, faithfulness, wisdom, understanding, knowledge, etc.

Ephesians 4:6 One Lord (Christ), one faith (and Christ GIVES you his (ONE) faith), one baptism (you were baptised into Christ death; your flesh died with his flesh and was resurrected with him in a NEW BODY (this one body; the body of Christ in us).

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptised into JESUS CHRIST (not water) were baptised into his death.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he hath part in the first resurrection; on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priest of God and Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Do souls of the unjust actually die?

Brother Earl,

As I know your views are very spiritual and that is good. Though just on one thing I would like to bring up about "fire". I very much understand God or Christ is a consuming fire and we are tried by fire as gold. To purify us. As in 1 Corinthians 3:13. Matthew 3:11.

Though as I will show you with one verse not ALL fire, to me anyway, is Christ, the Holy Ghost, or God in essence the way you perceive. As this fire would guide us to keep us clean and pure for God's Will.

Of coarse God made fire this just showing it is not always where we want to be.

At the end of Jude. In Jude 1:23 it speaks of how we should "save with fear" some people "pulling them out of the fire". As I think you will agree I don't think it is talking about pulling anyone out of the "fire of Christ". More likely the fire spoken of in Revelation 20:15, Matthew 25:41.

Also in the book of Enoch. Here is a small portion of chapter 108: for their names shall be blotted out of the book of life and out of the holy books, and their seed shall be destroyed for ever, and their spirits shall be slain, and they shall cry and make lamentation in a place that is a chaotic wilderness, and in the fire shall they burn.

I know you and me have gone over this before in that I think you perceive everyone "will be saved" in the end. Which I don't fully agree with but that's ok. Whatever the Will of God is, that shall be. Us being Blessed to be with the Lord Jesus Christ is a priceless treasure.



God Bless you brother Earl.

Jesse,

I have a few things for you:

1) The "last week" prophesy is split between a span of 2,000 years.

It's not 7 consecutive years, but 2 prophetic, 3.5 year segments, drawing on each other.

This is the Order:

-Jesus Christ received the first half of the week during his ministry (3.5 years), THEN,

-At the sixth trumpet antichrist receives the second half of the week (3.5 years) = 7 years total.

-At the seventh trumpet Jesus returns to rule the earth for 1,000 years.

2) ( 1 Thessalonians 17) "Being snatched away" and other like scriptures is only about the 144K, they are the only ones standing with Christ on Mount Olives ( Revelation 14:4), they are the only ones standing in front of the throne after being resurrected ( Revelation 11:11). The 144K are practically treated like Christ, because they are the bride.

( Revelation 20:4-5)

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Do you see how the 144K came out of the great tribulation (saints), and the rest of the dead slept (us)? The first resurrection is solely for the first fruits, who are with Christ for 1,000 years.

3) The 144K are not Jews, they are Christians of 12 tribes; even the 3 tribes of Judah are Christians worshiping Christ. The 144K are referred to as The house of Israel (Christians), not house of Judah.

The end-time scriptures uncover the mystery of the end, tied in to the OT prophets. The Bible reveals hidden secrets, they're there for the taking. Let me know of any end-time event questions you have, I will be here to help.

Brother Adam, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

Before you can understand Revelation you have to BELIEVE a few things.

Revelation 22:10 And he saith unto me, seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: FOR THE TIME IS AT HAND. You have to believe that it is relevant right this minute; that it's instructions on how our flesh is destroyed so be can inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 15:50 ...flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom of God..

Revelation 1:1 ...and he sent and SIGNIFIED it...

You have to believe that most nouns represent something other than what a dictionary defines them as.

Romans 8:20 For the creature (man) was made subject to vanity....

We start life with no faithfulness to our creator (husband); therefore, we are the WHORE. We have no knowledge of the word of God; therefore, we are the false prophet, we have no love or mercy; therefore we are the BEAST. We are the only beast that buys and sells. We are flesh; therefore, we are Anti Christ (opposed to Spirit).

When Revelation is finished with us we will be the FULLNESS OF CHRIST.

Romans 8:3 ....God sending his own Son in the LIKENESS of sinful flesh (us)...

Sinful flesh (us) was crucified with Christ; Christ arose and we arose with him.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection.... they shall shall reign with him a thousand years.

You have already died to the mark you were born with (the beast) (flesh).

Revelation 13:15 ....as many as would not worship the the image of the beast (themselves and things of the flesh) should be killed.

Revelation 9:18 By these three were a third part of man killed, by FIRE, and by smoke, and by brimstone...

You were raised with Christ and now Christ lives in you.

Hebrews 12:29 For our God is a consuming FIRE.

You now live in the purifying fire of CHRIST where the beast and false prophet are:

Revelation 19:20.. cast alive into FIRE; cast alive into Christ.

John R Nolan,

The concept of "rapture" has no place in the Bible, it is a made up term to represent something that doesn't happen. Who do you think the 144K of the elect are, and why are they overtly and covertly placed into at least 7 chapters of Revelation? If the elects end-time future role was minimal, so would be their story line, and it's not.

Revelation 20:4-5 (right after they're taken up)

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

It is the 144K, and no one else, who are resurrected, and redeemed from the great tribulation (not OT saints), who refused the beast and his mark. These saints are the only souls chosen to usher in God's plan, everyone else will sleep till the 2nd resurrection. Listen to the details of each account logically, the answers are there.

God bless.

Hi WH Hamilton. These names you see in Revelation 20:8 go all the way back to the days of Noah. As you know, Noah had three sons: Shem, Ham & Japheth. From Japheth issued sons: Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meshech, & Tiras. And Genesis 20:2-5 tell us that "By these (the sons/descendants of Japheth) were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations."

Then the Word of the LORD came to Ezekiel ( Ezekiel 38:1-3): "Son of man (i.e. Ezekiel), set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him". Even though we can't be certain of the exact locations of where these people actually settled in, we can assume that they went into Europe (northern parts) & the various countries formed from these families. Therefore, this 'person' Gog, is also unknown, even though he is referred to as "the chief prince of Meshech & Tubal". These names certainly don't have any modern day counterparts, though it seems that these countries, maybe a union of them, will figure in that great battle in the Valley of Megiddo (Ezekiel chapters 38 & 39; Revelation 16:14-16; Zechariah 14:1-3; Joel 3:1,2). Some suppose that Russia is referred to here, in which case those nations around them & under her influence & power will come against Israel in that Great Day of God's Judgement.

It mentins GOG and MAGOG ,but I can not find the definition of these two words or know what they are

Brother David, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and His understanding.

BELIEVE

Romans 8:3 For what the law COULD NOT DO, in that it was weak in the flesh, God sending his own Son, in the LIKENESS OF SINFUL FLESH, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Christ; the Spirit of GOD was made in the likeness of US (sinful flesh); therefore, sinful flesh (US) was CRUCIFIED on the CROSS WITH CHRIST. Christ rose AGAIN; therefore, we also arose with him, now in LIKENESS OF CHRIST.

John 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man keep my saying, he shall NEVER SEE DEATH.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who hath part in the FIRST RESURRECTION .......

You DIED and now LIVE IN CHRIST AND CHRIST IN YOU; you will never die again, you will just CHANGE BODIES.

Steve, I think you may be thinking of a couple of Scripture portions here. The first one is in Ezekiel chapters 38 and 39, and the other, Revelation chapter 20. You would need to read right through those chapters if you want to learn the detail of them.

In Ezekiel 38:2-4, the verses are, "Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him, And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal: And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords".

In Revelation 20:8, "And (Satan) shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea."

These portions speak of the future battle of Armageddon, with the Ezekiel chapters giving much more detail. The only problem however, is that to put Russia into that list of warring nations against Israel, can only be speculation, as those are very old names (Gog, Magog, Meshech & Tubal) that historians have been unable to accurately correlate to our modern nations/cities.

Brother Simon, may CHRIST IN US grace us with His wisdom and His understanding.

I agree, we can only be born again BY RESURRECTION.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in THE FIRST RESURRECTION: on such the second death has no power, but they shall be Priests of God and Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

This happens before the second judgement in Revelation 20:11-13

Luke 20:36 Neither can they die anymore...

Christ is telling the Sadducees; who did not believe in resurrection, that the ones APPOINTED TO DIE with him on his cross would never die again.

Psalms 102:18 This shall be written for the generation to come; and the people which SHALL BE CREATED shall praise the Lord.

Psalms 102:20 ...to loose those APPOINTED TO DEATH

Luke 20:36 ....being the children of the resurrection.

1 Peter 4:17 For the TIME IS COME that JUDGEMENT must begin at the HOUSE OF GOD.....

Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose HOUSE WE ARE...

John 5:22 For the father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgement unto the Son.

2 Corinthians 5:10 We must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ....

We were RESURRECTED with Christ and Christ is dwelling IN US; therefore, Christ's THRONE is IN US and were are BEFORE the THRONE being JUDGED NOW by Christ (the word of God).

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed (flesh), but by incorruptible, by THE WORD (SPIRIT) of God, which LIVETH and ABIDETH forever. (you will never die again after you died ONCE with Christ).

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is APPOINTED unto man ONCE TO DIE (with Christ on the cross or later at the second death), but after this then the JUDGEMENT.

Hebrews 9:28 .....and unto them that look for him shall he appear a SECOND TIME (the first time was in the flesh; the second time in SPIRIT, you don't see him he is like a thief in the night) WITHOUT SIN UNTO SALVATION.

S. Spencer,

Greetings, this site has some of the best NT scripture-smiths around. NT 27 strong.

Salvation to me begins at the seventh trumpet twinkle, with the 144,000 first fruits standing on the hill with Messiah, the Christ. ( Revelation 14:3-4) Please try to account for any souls other than these who are worthy of the first fruit resurrection, lest ( Revelation 20:5)? From your study, what are 2 things Christians should know about salvation?

I'm really surprised at how little of the OT, especially the prophets, are discussed here. They're the foundation, they offer tomorrows clews: Daniel 7:8 being Ezekiel 38:14 (Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Turkey) should interest you enough to see what they're talking about.

One thing we can agree on is that we are living in the end-times of Matthew 24, yet no one talks about it.

Brother Richard, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and His understanding.

I believe if there is a second death; there has to also be a first death.

Two resurrections; therefore, two deaths.

God is no respector of person; therefore, if the ones in second resurrection die (are judged) in the lake of fire; the ones in the first resurrection also die (are judged) in the lake of fire.

When Christ caused us to become one with him (CHRIST IN US) we we cast into (CHRIST) the lake of fire. To partake of the bread of life and the fountain of living water we also have to partake of the judgement of fire. As the bread and water gives us life, the fire cleanses and purifies us. We are being judged in the lake of fire (word of God) now; therefore, we want have our part in the lake of fire at the second resurrection.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is APPOINTED unto men once to die, but after this the judgement:

We died with Christ on the Cross (first death). We are being judged IN CHRIST now, BY THE WORD, BY FIRE. Those appointed the second death will be judged IN CHRIST ( Hebrews 10:31), BY THE WORD, BY FIRE.

Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was offered once for the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear a SECOND TIME (NOW, to those in the first resurrection the second coming is NOW; we don't have to wait for the literal appearance of Christ) WITHOUT SIN UNTO SALVATION.

For those in the second resurrection their judgement IN CHRIST is going to last awhile. Matthew says those that blaspheme the Holy Spirit want be saved in this age or the next age. This age so far has lasted 2000 years. We don't know how long the next age will last.

I believe those in the second resurrection will be raised back in bodies of flesh. The first resurrection, glorified bodies.

Revelation 20:7 ...Satan (flesh) will be loosed out of his prison (death and the grave),

1 Corinthians 15:40 celestial (glorified); terrestrial (flesh and blood)

Thank you for your reply my brother Earl,

I very much appreciate your time. As your reply lead me to do some reading about the "resurrections". Us in Christ being part of the first resurrection having no part in the lake of fire or "second death". Revelation 20:6.

As our Lord Jesus Christ being raised from the dead is our confirmation that there shall be a resurrection of our actual physical bodies. Acts 17:24-31.

In that the second resurrection is for all the people quoted in Revelation 21:8 as you stated. Those who are not with Christ.

As you have stated before "all shall worship God" with Scripture of it. As it is detailed in the Book of Enoch this is also correct though it shall not save them. From the second death or the lake of fire.

62.5 And one half of them will look at the other, and they will be terrified, and will cast down their faces, and pain will take hold of them when they see that Son of a woman sitting on the throne of His Glory.

62.6 And the mighty kings, and all those who possess the earth, will praise and bless and exalt Him who rules everything that is hidden.

62.7 For from the beginning that Son of Man was hidden, and the Most High kept Him in the presence of His power, and revealed Him only to the chosen.

62.9 And all the mighty kings, and the exalted, and those who rule the dry ground, will fall down before Him, on their faces, and worship; and they will set their hopes on that Son of Man, and will entreat Him, and will petition for mercy from Him.

62.10 But the Lord of Spirits will then so press them that they will hasten to go out from before Him, and their faces will be filled with shame, and the darkness will grow deeper on their faces.

Do you agree with these Scriptures?

As I also just want to be clear in what you believe the "second death" is. That this is where those souls/spirits will be separated from God, and us, for eternity? Or something else?

Thank you brother Earl.

Page 2.

Re: the Lake of Fire. It is prepared for the Devil & his angels ( Matthew 25:41) but is also the place where all Christ-rejecters go to in the final judgement ( Revelation 20:10-15) & particularly verse 15, "whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." And that includes not only the Devil & his angels but also the anti-Christ, the false prophet & all mankind that were not found in the Book of Life.

"Who created such a place?" I would say that God has done this. "Who does "the torturing in hell?" No one - it is a place of continual fire where the act of dying is continual but death that is longed for never comes ( Mark 9:43-48).

And these are not parables by Jesus; Jesus is telling us what lies beyond the grave. And that is why Jesus came to die on our behalf: that we might be spared God's Judgement to enjoy new life on Earth & then eternity in His Presence. As I mentioned before, if just dying & returning to dust was our punishment, the Gospel would be practically meaningless, as we all have to die & enter into such a state of 'oblivion'. But Jesus says that some will awake to "the resurrection of life & some to the resurrection of damnation" ( John 5:29). There is no permanent middle ground at the graveside - we all have to go somewhere else - and that's why the Gospel is so special & precious: it saves a person entirely, both in this life and the next.

Hi Richard,

I agree there is a hell. I believe it because the bible says it!

To teach otherwise can be dangerous, It sounds similar to Satan discrediting Gods word when Satan deceived Eve.

"And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:" Genesis 3:4.

And here's scriptural proof they don't just cease from existing.

1st of all the resurrection, and the term we know as the 2nd death.

Acts 24:15. And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a RESURRECTION of the dead, ( both of the just and UNJUST. )

What's the point in raising the unjust just to send them right back to the grave?

Matthew 25:41, 46 (KJV) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:...42..43..44..

...And these shall go away into EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT:

but the righteous into life eternal.

Hell was created for the devil and his angels but his children will go there also, and to take note,

YOU CAN'T WEEP AND NASH TEETH IF YOU NO LONGER EXIST, NEITHER CAN YOU ENDURE EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT.

Matthew 13:42-43. AND SHALL CAST THEM INTO A FURNACE OF FIRE: ""THERE SHALL BE WAILING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.

Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.

Revelation 20:14-15. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the Second death.

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE.

HERE IT SEEMS TO BE A RELOCATION, AND DEATH ( AND HELL IS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE!! )

When the restrainer is taken out of the way

( Thes 2:7 )

you see how evil men really is. War against God ect.

Revelation 16:9. And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.

They'll be just like their father the Devil.

No repentance. Forever tormented.

The scripture is clear.

GB.