Discuss Hebrews 11 Page 5

Hi Valerie.

The scripture says. By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh. Hebrews 11:4.

Now faith comes by hearing the word of God.

"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Romans 10:17.

So apparently they were instructed to offer what Abel offered which we find in Genesis 4:4.

"And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:"

This was a sacrifice pointing to the Lord Jesus Christ, who would later come and be a sacrfice for the whole world. John 1:29. "The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world."

Faith comes by hearing the word, so apparently Adam may have preached this to them, Abel demonstrated his faith by his offering. "Obedience and belief in what he was commanded to do.

Cain demonstrated unbelief by disregarding and disbelieving in what he was told.

Look at Gods response to Cain.

"But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?

If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him." Genesis 4:5-7.

Under the old covenant they offered up sacrifices pointing to one to come (Jesus).

The death of Christ ended that Covenant. read Hebrews 9:13-20.

Now we offer up ourselves.

"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service." Romans 12:1.

I hope that helps.

God bless.

Hi Marcus.

Amen. Abel acted on faith demonstrated by obedience.

By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh. Hebrews 11:4.

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17.

I believe these verses suggest that offering the firstling of his flock was being preached. "Faith comes by hearing"

God bless.

Let's review what Moses wrote in Genesis 5:1-31

This is the book of genealogy of Adam

...God created man...Adam lived...begot...Seth...and he died

Seth lived...begot Enosh...lived..and he died

Enosh lived...begot Cainan...lived...and he died

Cainan lived...begot Mahalalel...lived...and he died

Mahalalel lived...begot Jared...lived...and he died

Jared lived...begot Enoch...lived...and he died

Enoch lived...begot Methuselah...walked with God...and he was not, for God took him

Methuselah lived...begot Lamech...lived...and he died

Leech lived...begot Noah...lived...and he died

Setting aside Adam for the moment, let's be little children in our thinking and not wise to play the Sesame Street song:

One of these things is not like the others,

One of these things just doesn't belong,

Can you tell which thing is not like the others

By the time I finish my song?

Did you guess which thing was not like the others?

Did you guess which thing just doesn't belong?

If you guessed this one is not like the others,

Then you're absolutely...right!

The idea that taken = dead is wrong it means both dead and saved/translated depending on if the individual is a subject of God's grace or judgement, just like the words lifted up. To lift someone means both to restore/exalt them and execute/condemned them in scripture often paired together.

Genesis 40:12

Now within three days Pharaoh will LIFT up your head and restore you to your place...

Genesis 40:19

Within three days Pharaoh will LIFT off your head from you and hang you on a tree

John 3:13-14 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

Always keep in mind the Word of God is a double edge sword that cuts both ways. The same word of faith saves Moses and his people but hardens/judges Pharoah and his people.

The author of Hebrews at least is clearly stating that Enoch was translated and did not see death and that this is his understanding of taken.

Hebrews 11:5

By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

If you choose to dismiss that and say he is still romanticizing physical death, I don't see how that fits any of this author's other examples. Perhaps you should first tell me your position on Christ's resurrection or God's ability to create man from dust to see if we share any common frame of reference for interpreting this portion of scripture (or any scripture for that matter).

I like what you say, but have a problem believing Enoch and Elijah didn't die a mortal death when they're described as "taken" = dead. It's easy to see the author used hyperbole to romanticize their deaths.

Hebrew 9:27

(Originally posted under wrong verse, should be Hebrews 11:5-7)

Enoch

Genesis 5:21-22

Hebrews 11:5-6

Jude 1:14-15

Noah

Genesis 6:1 through Genesis 9:29

Matthew 24:37-39

Luke 17:26-30

Hebrews 11:7

1 Peter 3:19-20

2 Peter 2:5

2 Peter 3:3-7

Whether or not a person acknowledges it, Enoch and Noah are fathers to every man, woman and child living today. However, without saving faith they will only be fathers according to the flesh to our generation. That genetic relationship will be undeniably proven before God, but it will not only profit us nothing, it will actually make anyone in our generation more guilty than the people in theirs if they mock or ignore the testimony concerning them in these last days without repenting and believing in Jesus Christ as they did. We need to carefully consider and draw both encouragement and warning from their examples of faith if we want to share any of the benefits of the heritage they have left us.

Jesus Christ is the one who will catch us up to be with Him, like He did Enoch, if we are confirmed by the Holy Spirit to be those who please Him and His Father. He is also the unexpected Bridegroom who will close the wedding feast door that lets in the prepared wise virgins but shuts out the unprepared foolish virgins where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth, like He closed the door of the Ark that Noah prepared behind him and his household, shutting out those who were unprepared outside.

Although no one should count on it, if in His grace the Father continues to patiently wait beyond our short lives to send Christ with His holy angels for the final harvest, we still must hold to the fear of the LORD we see in these two ancestors of ours and uphold their testimony so that we may be partakers with them in the pleasure the Father has in their faith and the faith of all those mentioned in this chapter of Hebrews. That is one of the ways we will be able to add our own testimony of faith to theirs.

Additionally Abraham's faith was confirmed by his obedience and faith when it was tested by God telling him to offer up his only son Issac. Hebrews 11:17-18 says Abraham held both that Issac was his only hope of inheriting the promise God had made to him and put his trust in God's ability to raise the dead if in obedience he offered Issac to God in sacrifice.

While Abraham was not required to go through with the test to prove that God was this faithful to the promises Abraham received, God's only Son had to complete the test at the hands of His Father to grant Abraham the fullness of the promise and blessing given to him. Christ's resurrection is the proof that both the Father and the Son completed the test fully in order to uphold His promise to Abraham forever and God indeed provided the Lamb Abraham told Issac about by faith. The fulfillment of this test and obedience by Christ did not come to us by our keeping the law, not even the Ten Commandments. It comes to us who bless and share Abraham's faith.

Hello Bro Dan,

Agreed, through faith, Gentiles become the children of Abraham, who by faith obeyed God, which was counted to him as righteousness. So, if we are children of God as Israel is, it is by faith. And, Abraham, chosen by God before he had demonstrated faith, responded to God in faith by living in obedience to God's commands to him (which predated the Law of Moses). But it is clearly stated in Hebrews 11:8-12 speaks of how Abraham obeyed God because he had faith in God. Also, read in Romans chapter 4, speaking of God's promise to Abraham being based on faith, not works. Yet, Abraham needed to act on his faith to receive the promise. Isaac was not conceived without Abraham's action done with faith. Therefore, we are to obey God through faith in Him, believing that He is true to His promises and also that His commands are good and best for us.

Jernej, we are not robots. God gave us free will to do His will or to do evil. You can choose between porn and God's commandments. It is hard, but all things are possible with God. Ask Him to forgive you and mean it by repenting, that is, never doing it again. Immerse yourself in Him by praying, reading His Word, singing, going to church, seeking fellowship with other Christians. When the devil gives you the urge to go back to porn, rebuke him and he will flee. James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Here are other verses that will help you.

--Corinthians 10:5 Take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. Philippians 4:8: Whatever is... true, noble, right, pure, lovely, admirable, excellent and praiseworthy.

-- Romans 8:38,39 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

-- Ps. 56:3 Whenever I am afraid, I will trust in You.

-- Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

-- 1 Peter 5:7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.

-- Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.

-- Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

-- Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Let this be your aim:

-- Galatians 2:20 - I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

May God bless you!

Ephesians 5:4, in context: Ephesians 5:1-20,, 1John 2:21-29, context: 1John 2, Matthew 12:36, 1John 3:7,

Proverbs 14:9, Hebrews 11:36, in context Hebrews 11, Isaiah 63:8, James 3:14, Revelation 22:14,15, Revelation 21:27,

Hopefully these are helpful

Amen Rick.

Joshua 6:25.

Hebrews 11:31.

Whenever I am afraid, I will trust in You. Ps. 56:3

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.

1 Peter 5:7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. Romans 8:28

Poor thing and honestly what most people think they know is gossip not gospel. they just repeat what was taught to them. There weren't people back then, your kidding right. maybe you should study history there is actual proof of it documented and it includes Chistian's the Greeks, Hebrews, Israel, Jewish people and nations, ruins of them as well all which line up with the Bible. Go travel to the middle east and see it. Like Jesus told Thomas stick your hand in my side and the holes in my hand if you don't believe I rose from the dead thus the saying: doubting Thomas was born, two things (1) it's faith, faith in things you can see is not faith, faith is believing of the unseen, like God, you say you believe in God, well guess what so does satan and it will no more help satan then it will you. Hebrews 11:1

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

Ok (2) 2 Corinthians 13:12 Study to show thyself approved unto God and not your family study and then tell you, got that now look here John 14:26

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." and

Now one is anointed by the Holy Ghost 1 John 2:27

"But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."

Did you read that, (and ye not that any man teach you)

If you believe in God then read the Bible, read it like any other book, like a history book and learn what it says, about the people places and events that took place it has amazing accounts in it of real men and their lives and journeys

I can testify that people believe some dumb things about the Bible, Jesus called them traditions of men and fables Good luck

King James Version (KJV)

Genesis 4, Genesis 5, Hebrews 11:5, Jude 1:14, KJV

1 Timothy 6:20

"O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:"

Because science says that, but the bible shows around 6,000+ years Matthew 1:17

"So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations."

You have from the beginning to the flood then the 2000 yrs since Jesus was crucified as well. Now before Abraham you men living 8 t0 900 years.

So if a person wanted to be biblically learned in the age of the earth you can study it in Chronocals where the genealogies are listed from before the flood and the age of each person.

Science is based on man's theory 1 Corinthians 3:19

"For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness."

So does it matter, you either believe or you don't if you do believe then God's word is the authority remember man doesn't believe the creation, they believe a large mass exploded and trillions of perfect round planets, moons, and stars came from that explosion. Hebrews 11:1

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

A believer's source of information, beliefs, and opinions is God's word. For out of the fulness of the heart speaketh thy lips. Read God's word, for faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God

King James Version (KJV)

But faith without works is dead : James 2,

Not "works of the Law' : Galatians 2:16,

1 Thessalonians 1:3,

1 Corinthians 13:12

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known."

King James Version (KJV)

If you read you see twice God created man, Genesis 1:27

"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

Genesis 2:7

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

Is this the answer some think it's not But Gnesis 2:7 is after God finish all his work and rested the 7th day Genesis 2:4These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, It says generations plural. but then we see verse

5And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. but we only know in part? 2Corinth3:12 And then we see this, Genesis 6:4

"There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown."

Hebrews 11:1

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

King James Version (KJV)

Faith is simply believing GOD'S Word!

Hi BMW.

Part 6.

EVIDENCE OF DIVINE CONCERN FOR THE GENTILES. Continued.

(1) The practice of offering sacrifices as atonement, typically foreshadowing the coming of Jesus, apparently was a human requirement from the very commencement of history. Abel, son of Adam and Eve, brought the "firstlings of his flock and the fat thereof" ( Genesis 4:4). The offering must have been killed, otherwise he could not have presented the fat, which was the best part. Moreover, we are told that "righteous Abel" (so designated by Jesus [ Matthew 23:35]) offered his sacrifice "by faith" ( Hebrews 11:4), which, in the overall context of this chapter, clearly is an objective faith grounded in revelation, and not that which was subjectively whimsical.

When Noah departed from the ark after the waters of the flood subsided, he built an altar and offered sacrifices of every clean animal and bird, and Jehovah was pleased with his offering ( Genesis 8:20-21). What compelled him to do such?

Melchizedek, whom Abraham encountered on his return from the rescue of his nephew, was designated by Moses as a "priest of God Most High" ( Genesis 14:18). A priest is an appointed servant who officiates in the offering of sacrifices to atone for sin. The modernistic notion that Melchizedek was merely the "high god" priest of the Canaanites (e.g., Baal), worshipped in pre-Israelite Jerusalem, is absurd (Hicks 1962, 343). God would hardly have chosen a Baal-worshipper to be a type, prophetically previewing his Son ( Hebrews 7:3). See also Leupold (1942, 463).

(2) The entire world population was one in kind prior to the call of Abraham. He was the first to be designated a Hebrew ( Genesis 14:13). The Hebrews were not set apart as a distinct people until the giving of the law of Moses ( Exodus 19:5-6; cf. Ephesians 2:14). It is wholly unrealistic not to recognize that God's love for the Gentiles was a part of the ancient world.

See Part 7 of 7!

Abimelech was not a real man, because he did not want to be killed by a woman that he was trying to murder in the tower along with everyone else. And it also shows malice towards her when he said "That men say not of me, A woman slew him." And this shoes what a coward he was. No real man is going to trap a woman in a tower and try to murder her and then complain when she defends herself from him! His death was also because he had murdered his 70 brothers 3 years earlier which lead to him trying to murder the woman in the tower along with everyone else! And Barak was a real man because he obeyed Our Heavenly Father by fighting Sisera atbthe kushon river and he delivered Sisera into his hands after Jael had killed him in self defence for trying to rape her ( or trying to rape her again since she covered him twice! And it shows that Sisera was not a real man either!) which is why The Heavenly Father blessed her among women and women in the tents, and why Barak is in Hebrews 11:32 and Deborah was suppossed to be judge of Israel Our Heavenly Father approved of it and he approves of women killing men in self defence!

With respect and affection , u r absolutely correct . God is our Sovereign and His law of love , personified in His Word made flesh , Jesus Christ the Righteous is our example to b followed always and to the very best of our ability . Exodus Ch 1 gives us a great example of people who fear God and recognise His Sovereignty above any human . They also trusted in God's ability to protect them , even from Pharaoh . These ladies knew who was in charge and knew that He is their protector and King who is able to protect us all from any evil that this world and the people of it try to inflict upon us . Proverbs Ch 3 V 5 - 8 .

Hebrews 11:1 Tedd, I have prayed for you. Keep your eyes affixed on God, pray to Him, and remember His Word. It is a precious gift to not be taken lightly, Amen! Stay blessed.

Hebrews 11:23, I'm reminded by faith at times we must obey GOD & good conscience towards GOD than evil commands of Kings, rulers, Governors, Government. Even here it's considered faith. In days we' are tried & tested, let us be faithful!

Amen Brother Ronald.

And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

God having provided some better thing for us, THAT THEY WITHOUT US SHOULD NOT BE MADE PERFECT. Hebrews 11:39-40.

Jeremiah

All mankind going back through Noah to Adam knew a lot ore about God, His ways, heaven and other spiritual things because God communicate with these and other pre-post flood prophets lie Seth. Enoch, Jared, Noah, Shem, and Abraham.

However, most of what God said or revealed to them was not written down by Moses. These revelations were proclaimed to the people during those times. Yet, many people turns to idols instead of believing the oral transmission about God through thes godly patriarchs

Jesus said that Abraham saw the day when the Messiah would come and Rejoiced. John 8:56

And Ababam believed that God could raise Isaac from the dead if he slayed him. Hebrews 11:17-19

Abraham was a prophet and favored by God. I am sure that God shows up often and revealed things to him. Enoch walked with Gid and was witnessed going up to heaven without dying.

So, there is most likely a large amount of revelation God told Abraham and other patriarchs that God did not have Mose record in Genesis. These people's faith was not as primitive as most people seem to assume.

Indeed GiGi. I think that other folks' opinion on this is based on the Gift of the Holy Spirit Who baptizes, indwells, seals & empowers for life & service. The question therefore is, if the disciples did not experience this mysterious blessed Act of the Spirit till Pentecost, then what was their spiritual condition prior?

For this matter & many others, I always first ascertain which dispensation are we looking at. Clearly, the Lord, his chosen disciples, & all whom they encountered were still living under the Old Dispensation: of the Law, looking towards the Messiah of God & His Salvation (albeit not the salvation they expected). Therefore, in respect to the disciples, they like all others (even Noah, Abraham, Jacob, etc.), were subject to God, living in a sinful condition yet expressing devotion & trust in God to forgive them & help them. And if the saints of old were commended for their faith, not even receiving the promise ( Hebrews 11:39), we cannot discount them from being true believers & worshippers of God. But once the Sacrifice of Jesus was completed, the Requirement for forgiveness (both theirs & ours) was accepted & sealed by God: the Blood availed in full efficacy for those once under the Law & those believing without the Law.

The disciples obviously were in an interesting point in time, having been subject to the Law & pharisaical demands, then meeting & believing in the One Who would abrogate the Law that only brought sin & death ( Romans 7:6-11), & then receiving the anointing & indwelling of the Spirit, Who would guarantee freedom from the penalty, hopelessness & powerlessness of that Law. Were the disciples in any different dispensation than those of previous millennia? The same God Who accepted the faith & worship of Jacob under the Law, would accept these simple followers of Christ by their faith & obedience, awaiting not many days hence, when the Law could no longer kill, but they would have the Spirit Who would give them life & power to live.

Hi Chinita.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1.

Faith rest in the word of God. We put our trust in Christ and his faithfulness. It's a fruit he imputes over unto us.

Faith comes by hearing the word, Romans 10:17. And I believe this is with the inner ear, which means hearing and believing and acting on it. It's not a leap in the dark, It is a substance and that substance is what God has to say and his faithfulness to carry his word through.

Stay in Gods word and pray often.

God bless.

Here are several scriptures I found about death & after death : James 2:26, Ecclesiasticus 38:23, Ecclesiasticus 22:11, 2 Maccabees 7:36, 2 Maccabees 12:44, Ecclesiasticus 10:11, Ecclesiasticus 17:28, Baruch, 2:17, Psalms 88:10, Psalms 115:11, Ecclesiastes 9:5,

after death,: Matthew 17:1-3, Luke 7:12-16, Luke 8:49-56, John 11:21-45, Matthew 27:50-54, Luke 16:22-31, John 21:14, Acts 3:15, Acts 4:10, Mark 12:25,26,27, Luke 24:46, John 5:12, John 5:25, 1 Peter 1:3, 1 Peter 2:24, 1 Peter 4:5, Revelation 1:5, Revelation 1:18, Revelation 14:9-20, 1 Corinthians 15:20,21, 2 Timothy 4:1, 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 1 Thessalonians 1:10, Matthew 25:31-46, Romans 14:9, Matthew 22:32, Isaiah 26:19,

Hebrews 11:35, Revelation 20, 2 Esdras 2:16, Hebrews 6:2, Hebrews 9:14, Hebrews 11:4, Hebrews 13:20, Revelation 11:18,

Hopefully these are helpful.

Jim In the Gospel of luke 13:28 who was he speaking to was it not the ruler of the synagogue starting in verse

15 and most if not all of those were corrupt. The key to this discussion is Abraham and those before the law

believed God and it was counted unto them for righteousness then when the law which nobody walked all the time

untill our Saviour who fulfilled and completed the law. Those doing the best they could by the law Luke 1:6

Zacharias and Elisabeth were blameless in the law it doesn't say faultless! Now as it says Hebrews 11:8-10 by faith

or believing Abraham looked for a city who's builder and maker was God does that not describe Paradise to come.

To keep the covenant and testimony in verse 12;is to remain faithful to the laws of the God of Israel and continue to reap the blessings of being His chosen people who were saved out of Egypt and to be given the Promised Land. Of course; no one can do this apart from the power of the Holy Spirit. Anyone, according to James 2:10 he who has broken one law has broken them all; and scripture also indicates that he who sets aside the least of these commandments will be least in the Kingdom of Heaven. ( Matthew 5:19). There are results therefore; to omission of teaching unpopular things; as well as commission of things forbidden. In either case; we cannot ignore what Christ taught for if we love Him; we will obey Him. ( 1 John 2:3).

When we know the lawgiver; grace sets us free. We have an indication of the literal and spiritual descendants ruling and reigning in Zion; whether on earth during the Millennium; or when the heavenly city comes to earth afterwards and all are in eternal bodies. The Old Testament saints such as David will rule and reign; and certainly the Apostles as well; as this group likely constitutes the 24 elders in Revelation 4:10. The Lord will surely restore the earth in fullness when He returns as v. 15 states. He who is trusted in earthly things can be assured authority over heavenly ( Luke 16:11); this and many other similar admonitions encourage us to trust that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him ( Hebrews 11:6).