Reconciliation with God are achieved solely through Jesus Christ, not through human works, merits, or any other means!
Also studying the Bible, reading the Bible is how we grow!
It's NOT how we become saved!
Reading the Bible is crucial for spiritual growth and understanding God's will
Salvation is eternal life!
John 14:6 Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the LIFE: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Jesus is life "eternal!" When we recieve Christ we recieve LIFE!
We receive eternal life through faith in Jesus Christ and His finish work on the cross.
Romans 10:9-10 reads, "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
When we truly trust our life in the work of Christ where he died in our place we become joined with him in his death! ( Romans 6:3 )
When Christ rose from the dead we are Identified with Christ in his ressurection!
That's baptism by the Holyspirit!
You've been Identified by the death and ressurection of Christ! ( Romans 6:4-6.)
This doesn't mean you are ever going to be perfect in this life but it does mean there will be change and that change starts in the heart!
A born again believer is given a new heart, one that no longer wants to sin or be around it.
He may stumble but he is no more a habitual sinner because when he recieved Christ he recieved Christ's Spirit that will no longer let him live in sin.
Godwin no one ever has stopped any sin on their own!
Sin is in the old heart before the act is done.
Godwin if you can trust and believe what Christ has done for you you will receive Christ and Christ is salvation.
The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:23.
One is saved by receiving Christ as our Lord and savior!
One must realize he is lost, hopeless, and condemned without Christ!
We will recieve Christ when we come to Christ in faith and put our salvation in his hands, believing in your heart that Jesus is Lord and accepting His payment for sin. (Jesus paid for our sins by taking our place on the cross)
Christ death was a sacrifice for humanity's sins, allowing believers to have a new and eternal life through faith in him
This saving faith is a gift received through God's grace, not earned by your good deeds or good works.
Christ payment on the cross was a payment for the sins for the WHOLE WORLD (that must be received by faith) from Adam until the world ends. John 3:15-18.
God provided His Son for our salvation; thus determining the one parameter necessary for saving His elect and man is commanded to repent and believe ( Mark 1:15); as well as verbally confess AND believe in their heart ( Romans 10:9 with emphasis on the second issue the heart). Finally baptism I would argue is necessitated as part of this public confession being demonstrated by our association and experiential death; burial and resurrection with Christ (see Romans 6:4 and subsequent scriptures on the subject).
I am not here to argue on whether someone is saved if they die between that verbal confession and heart change and the time set for Baptism; I will say that one should expedite it ASAP in obedience; as good fruit in general needs to be a hallmark of faith.
More broadly; of course we all need to test ourselves to see if we are in the faith; so that actions such as Baptism or confession may not truly have been the result of saving faith. ( 2 Cor. 13:5). Good fruit as seen by the Parable of the sower and the seed is crucial and necessary as God Himself has prepared these good works for us from before our creation ( Eph. 2:10).
This is a key concept; that what we do should be empowered by the Spirit of God and not self righteousness. Outer actions therefore are important but the state of the inner man determines spiritual rewards. Therefore our works don't save us but are needed to bare witness to a new nature motivating and guiding us to a lost and dying world.
God's covenant through the church ensures every true believer is truly saved but there are varying degrees of rewards based on obedience and these result in "crowns" for those in leadership for obedience; martyrs; those patiently waiting for His return; etc.
As Revelation 3:11 shows the Philadelphia faithful church rewards can be taken by another. Some things are a good thing to covet but no one gains the prize by character assassination of another.
Hello Pepe. I can understand the dilemma & difficulty you have of going to a Sunday service instead of a Sabbath service, as this aspect of observance is highly stressed to all SDA adherents at the outset. In fact, old-time SDAs would tell you that those who worship the LORD on a Sunday have the mark of the beast upon them. So, it's not easy having to deal with such a change (and belief).
Whenever any doctrine or teaching comes up for my consideration, I always go to the heart of the matter. What is the Sabbath Day? Well, it is the fourth Commandment given by God, only to His chosen people Israel ( Exodus 31:13-17). It was given for their complete rest from their busy lives of labor on the other six days. On the other side of the coin, the Ten Commandments, along with the many other commandments were not given to Gentiles. Those who contest this, usually fuse God's relationship to Israel & His Word specifically to Israel, with His Church (of believing Jews and Gentiles). But this has never happened and nowhere in the Word do we read that the Church has to come under those OT commandments, rather, the Church has been given the Holy Spirit, and we ought to obey Him in everything He reveals to us - and this goes beyond anything that the old Law could ever require.
Remember, we are no longer under the Law as the apostle writes in Romans 6:14,15. The Law could only reveal sin, but it gave no power to overcome it - it could only show Israel their sinfulness, thus the requirement of sacrifices to temporarily shield them from God's Wrath. But then Grace came - the Grace of God through His Son's Sacrifice & Gift of the Holy Spirit. Now, both believing Jew and Gentile were forgiven and covered completely & given the Mind of Christ & His Power to live above the stern requirements and penalties of the Law. Onto Page 2.
"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
Acts 2:38
"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Great post and it is primarily what we are discussing in this thread.
I would even add the end of Romans 5 on through Romans 6, 7, and 8.
Romans 5:19- 21 reads, "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Onto Romans 6:1-4,
"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
WE ALSO SHOULD WALK IN NEWNESS OF LIFE!
This statement is not a task! It's a statement of fact!
If a person have been baptized into Christ death and ressurection he's Identified with Christ and born of God's Spirit!
(Verses 8-11)Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
(Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin.) This is factual! It's telling us to "RECOGNIZE" ourselves to be dead indeed unto sin.
This doesn't mean we're perfect!
It means we're not longer slaves to sin.
Paul uses the analogy of a marriage in Romans 7 describing the flesh and it's infirmities.
Exactly right. John's baptism was not a man-made ritual borrowed from Jewish tradition but a direct command from God for a specific purpose in His prophetic plan. John 1:33 makes that clear: "He that sent me to baptize with water"-God Himself commissioned John to prepare Israel for their coming Messiah. It was a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins ( Mark 1:4; Luke 3:3), identifying a believing remnant within the nation who would be ready to receive their King.
But that baptism belonged to Israel's prophetic program, not to what is revealed later through Paul. John's ministry called Israel to repentance and national cleansing before the promised kingdom could be established on earth. It was a shadow of the future when the nation will be washed and restored ( Ezekiel 36:25-27). Yet once Christ's death and resurrection were accomplished, God began a new work-offering salvation to all, Jew and Gentile alike, not through water or outward sign, but by faith alone in the finished work of the cross.
Paul declares that there is now "one baptism" ( Ephesians 4:5), not of water, but by the Spirit into the body of Christ ( 1 Corinthians 12:13). This spiritual baptism identifies believers with Christ's death, burial, and resurrection ( Romans 6:3-4). John's commission looked forward to an earthly kingdom; Paul's gospel looks upward to a heavenly calling. Both were from God, but each served its divine purpose in its proper time. I would love to hear your thoughts on the truths laid out before you.
When I read about enduring and overcoming, it resonates with me as a call to obedience. Obedience is essential to our walk with God and shows our love for Him. As Giannis said, God's grace is a gift, and our salvation comes from Jesus' sacrifice; we can't do anything to earn it.
Obedience is the foundation of enduring and overcoming the challenges we face in this corrupt world. I agree it is by the blood of the Lamb, Philippians 4:13. Obedience is not a work but an expression of our love for God and the promises He has given us; obedience is on us, Romans 6:16, as Jesus is our guide who was obedient unto death, we are also to be obedient, many in the past has been obedient unto death and many in the future will also. To me, that is the ultimate enduring and overcoming.
I understand some of the verses I listed might fit a time when you and others believe the Church will be taken to heaven and won't be here, but those Scriptures are there for a reason, like Revelation 13:9-10 and Revelation 14:12-13. Those who have genuine faith will endure and overcome the persecution that is coming, even death.
Paul's command (not a request) in 2 Timothy 2:15 - "rightly dividing the word of truth" - makes no sense if there is nothing to divide.
The Greek word translated "rightly divide" means to "cut straight" or "make a correct partition." Paul is instructing Timothy (and us) to handle God's Word carefully, recognizing distinctions God Himself has placed in it. The Bible is one unified revelation, but within it God deals with different people in different ways at different times (dispensations). For example:
Law vs. Grace: God gave Israel the Law through Moses ( Exodus 20), but through Paul He revealed salvation by grace apart from the Law ( Romans 6:14; Galatians 2:16). If we blur these, we end up mixing works with grace.
Israel vs. the Church: Israel was promised an earthly kingdom ( Jeremiah 23:5-6; Matthew 19:28), while the Body of Christ has a heavenly calling ( Ephesians 1:3; Philippians 3:20). If we confuse these, we misapply promises and commands not meant for us.
Gospel of the Kingdom vs. Gospel of Grace: (yes, there is more than one Gospel in the NT) Jesus and the 12 preached "the gospel of the kingdom" to Israel ( Matthew 4:23; Galatians 2:7-9), while Paul was given "the gospel of the grace of God" ( Acts 20:24; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4). Both are true, but they serve different purposes in God's plan.
So Paul's point is: don't blend everything together as if it all applies in the same way to everyone. To "rightly divide" is to discern God's progressive revelation - prophecy vs. mystery, Israel's promises vs. the Church's hope, law vs. grace. If you don't divide, you end up in contradictions and confusion.
But Paul goes on immediately in the next verse: "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." ( Ephesians 2:10).
Works are not the root of salvation, but they are the fruit of salvation.
The Spirit of God produces love, service, and obedience in the believer's life ( Galatians 5:22-23; Titus 3:8).
Works are a demonstration of faith, not the basis of it.
The Right Perspective
Works should follow after salvation. But they do not secure salvation, nor do they keep it. They simply manifest the new life we already have in Christ ( 2 Corinthians 5:17).
We are not saved by good works, but we are saved unto good works.
"saved unto good works" is a short phrase with a lot of depth.
1. The Source of Salvation
When Paul says in Ephesians 2:8-9 that salvation is by grace through faith and not of works, he's setting the foundation:
We contribute nothing to earn salvation.
It's God's gift, given freely because of Christ's finished work on the cross.
2. The Purpose of Salvation
Right after that, Paul explains in Ephesians 2:10:
"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."
This means that once God saves us, He also equips us for a new kind of life - a life that reflects His grace, truth, and righteousness.
"Unto good works" means we are saved for the purpose of living out the good things God intended.
3. The Role of Good Works
Not the cause, but the result: Works don't save us, but they are the evidence that we are saved ( Romans 6:4; Titus 3:8).
Spirit-enabled, not self-made: The works are produced as the Spirit lives through us ( Galatians 2:20; Philippians 2:13).
Witness to others: Good works demonstrate Christ's life in us to a watching world ( Matthew 5:16; Philippians 2:15).
The last question, are we saved by grace alone or Grace plus works?
Thanks for your reply. I understand many see this as comfort, similar to what you hear at a funeral when the preacher says Bob is with Jesus in heaven. Am I going to tell that loved one No, he is not? NO, but what is the actual truth?
Ecclesiastes 9:5, if we die, we know nothing. Psalms 115:17 I believe that if our spirit were alive in heaven, we would be praising the LORD. Our only hope of eternal life is in Jesus; this comes when we are resurrected, not before, 1 Corinthians 15:52-54.
Not to drag this out, I will say, if we all have an immortal spirit, there is no death and no true gift of eternal life because we already possess it. John 3:15, John 10:28, Romans 2:7, Romans 6:23, 1 John 2:25. This is our promise. The others receive death; they will perish, John 3:16, 2 Thessalonians 2:10, 2 Peter 2:12. The word perish is to destroy fully, permanent, absolute destruction. Revelation 21:8 their part, their punishment, and death will fit their sins, not burn for eternity.
Death is not a separation, as Greek philosophy puts it, which has influenced today's understanding.
Hello dear "Alex S Potter", it was a good decision, the best decision you've ever made, I think. Welcome! There will be great joy in heaven over every human soul who repents to the Lord God and Jesus, the Creator of the whole Earth. Luk 15:7 You have probably looked at the next page here at the website and found out what you can do. If not, all must confess that Jesus is the son of God, and you have probably done that. Then confess to everyone you know so that you are finished with that confession. Because that way you can help yourself and not get into situations where you have to explain yourself. This can be a hard test to do because where you have been (in death) will try and hold you back. Romans 6:22-23 Amen. I am honest with you but do not fear the one who lives in you after your confession is stronger than the one who wants to hold you back. A little hint. Read all the testimonies here on the site. You will be convinced that God is great and that Jesus who conquered death has sent us His helper The Holy Spirit to do great things for Him. Eph 6:10 No one who is new to the path is fully trained right away. So we can say that this is enough for the first time, from me. But everything will come to you piecemeal and divided so that you will understand everything. You will probably get more answers here, and that is good. I wish you all the best and will pray: We thank and praise You Father and Creator because You have sent "Alex S Potter" come to us. Let us all be inspired and give good advice at the right time. Also send your angelic hosts to help at that time "Alex S Potter" need help. Even with earthly difficulties You can help Lord Jesus. We praise Your holy Name, above all other Names. In the name of Jesus Christ we pray. Amen Acts 13:13-41 Love u i Jesus Christ. Belive in Jesus
Brother Jesse has provided Scriptures to consider on this matter. I could offer Scriptures that would debate these points, but that would not answer your questions. This doctrine originated in 325 A.D. and was expanded over the next 150 years or so. You need to pray and study for your own conscience.
The majority support this doctrine, and some believe it is essential to be a Christian. Jesus is our Lord, and He gave His life to pay the penalty for sin so that we, through Him, can be reconciled to God. The wages of sin are death, Romans 6:23. Jesus' death on the cross paid this price.
Jesus had His own will, but was obedient and did the will of the Father, John 14:31, Luke 22:42, John 5:30, John 17:16, John 12:49.
The Chalcedonian Creed A.D. 451 states, "Christ, Son, Lord, only begotten, to be acknowledged in two natures, in confusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably; the distinction of nature's being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved." Does Scripture support this?
God alone possesses immortality, 1 Timothy 6:16. Our faith rests on the death and resurrection of Jesus, 1 Corinthians 15:3-4, 1 Corinthians 15:12-17. God cannot die. Jesus was tempted in the same ways we are, Hebrews 4:14-16. God cannot be tempted, James 1:13.
The Bible will answer all questions we have if we are ready to receive the answer, Matthew 7:7, James 1:5, with prayer and the guidance of the Holy Spirit-not man.
Day 28 January 28, 2025 Matthew 18:19-20 KJV Unity in Prayer West Angeles Church Consecration Calendar
I Pray for unity in my prayers and done in my church and community
Matthew 18:19 KJV
My Interpetation REDAPPLETREATY4MEONLY
" When done and praying is showing God as holy to believe. Principle-Holy to all religions.Always performaning righteousness, holiness in actions "to do it" of God, to have faith, hope, love is unity"
Confirmation to all the world. Confirmation is of the Gospel performing of miracle. Trusting in Jesus intercession asking in prayer. A guaranteed result I have received being Christian is utterance of the spirtual man.Accord with Jesus Christ God the Father Romans 6:23 KJV." Quoted on prayers being done must be of God expedient, earnest, faithful, preserving.
Expedient definition- serves to promote or advance any means which may be employed to accomplish an end.
Matthew 18:20 KJV
My Interpetation REDAPPLETREATY4MEONLY:
" Associated scripture Hebrews 10:25 KJV. Jesus in the midst is Psalm 19:4 KJV to be pleasing in his sight 1 John 3:22 KJV. Jesus Christ is omnipresence amd omniscience to all the world. Quoted on blessing on united, congregational prayer. Jesus want you to have the gift of the Holy Ghost-cordial and sincere. Receiving the blessings -When speaking to have the presence of Christ is true and mighty Psalms 21:6 KJV Communion with his church as real. Speaking in advancement of position Psalms 16:11 KJV
Quoted: Measure is in believing the holy bible-Jesus Christ is life to follow.
I completely agree with you. One of the major misconceptions today is the true meaning of "grace." From a biblical standpoint, grace is unmerited favor.
The Law of Moses revealed our inadequacy-how despicable, miserable, and sinful our ways truly are. However, it did not provide the power to overcome these sinful tendencies; it merely exposed the problem. No one could perfectly keep the law ( Romans 3:12-20, Galatians 3:19, Romans 7:10). As Scripture says, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God ( Romans 3:22, Galatians 3:20, Romans 7:13-14). Jesus Himself highlighted this when He said, "There is one who accuses you, even Moses, in whom you trust." This referred to the Law of Moses, which the Israelites relied upon, yet it only revealed their inability to live righteously ( John 5:45-46).
Grace came to assist those who were unable to keep the law, enabling them to fulfill it. Grace does not make the law void; rather, it establishes the law by empowering us to obey it. As Paul explained, "the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us who walk according to the Spirit" ( Romans 8:3-4).
This principle is illustrated in the parable of the Good Samaritan. A traveler was wounded by thieves . The priests and Levites-representing the law-saw him but could not help. The Good Samaritan (Jesus), however, freely offered aid-representing grace-healing the man from his wounds, which symbolize sin. We partake in this grace by receiving the Spirit of Christ, which helps to walk according to the Spirit rather than our sinful flesh and desires.
The Holy Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of holiness. One cannot continue in sin and claim to possess the Holy Spirit. Grace delivers us from sin; it does not provide permission to remain in it ( Romans 6:1-2). Paul even warned against this attitude in Romans 3:8, where some falsely claimed that continuing in sin was a way of doing good.
When it comes to stupidity; man seemingly has enough to go around to destroy himself without the Devil getting involved. 1 Peter 5:8 states: Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: and Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
When we consider these things; Isaiah 24 helps to clarify events: And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth. (v. 21 I believe). This chapter is so relevant for today I think I will focus my next study on it.
Now some today still hold to correct theology regarding man's ultimate helplessness in sin and inability to do any good; and the need to repent (actually given as a gift by God) and turn from his wicked ways through the help of the Holy Spirit. What many if not almost all fail to communicate effectively is that we change MASTERS in that change of heart from Satan to the Lord Jesus Christ. When we realize that being in league with spiritual darkness also adds to our judgment we understand better what Jesus means by hell was meant for the Devil and his angels ( Matt. 25:41). The world as it were is the conduit through Satan's organization of rulership over governments and regions of the earth to align with his campaign. He uses the flesh to physically act out that which is impressed on the souls of unregenerate man; that is rebellion to seek selfishly those earthly pleasures which soon shall pass.
This concept makes us comprehend how we are slaves of righteousness ( Romans 6:18 in NKJV which artificial intelligence lead me to; which is stronger than just servants in regular KJV.) Yes we are also His friends ( John 15:15) as the enmity was ended ( Eph. 2:16) because of Calvary.
If we look to Psalm 119 we see the longest chapter in all scripture constantly referring to God's law and the author's love for it (I believe David). So the question is...(metronome sound and countdown music)
If we are in the Age of Grace what of the law if we no longer live under it; should we still love it?
This bears some thought; as we can glibly say well of course. We are reminded it is as our schoolmaster and seems harsh at the time ( Hebrews 12:11). Also the fact that no one can be saved by the law; on the contrary it is used to convict of sin; and of course if anyone breaks it even once is cursed ( Gal. 3:10 in KJV although other translations seem to try to dilute this concept it seems). How can we love His law then? The answer...(ditto metronome).
Of course it has to do with LOVE; and the verse I already stated that those who love Him keep His commandments. God doesn't accept alternate paths to Himself through our own self justification or righteousness. He doesn't accept clear defiance of commands that are part of the moral law that transcend to all generations. Obviously with grace abounding over sin we don't sin for more grace ( Romans 6:1-2).
Of course tied in with this idea man is basically good is the concept that we shouldn't offend anyone; or the scripture is twisted about not judging one another; despite Paul's clear teaching on the matter of judging within the body of Christ matters that ought not to be in the world's courts. We of course will also judge the world as corulers with Christ ( 1 Cor. 6:2); and angels ( 1 Cor. 6:3). Love therefore involves telling the truth. Telling a lie in a loving manner isn't really love of course; and neither is not warning someone when we can see they are headed for destruction.
God first loved us first ( 1 John 4:19); and of course we all should know John 3:16. His love had to come to us through imputed righteousness from Christ's atonament to be in His presence.
Hello everyone. Is something missing in the New Testament. Could it just be the work of salvation or is it deliberately avoiding the subject al together? Why do people go astray? We know that sin begins in the heart. Thinking that the head is involved in forming a sin. Mat 15:19 And remember, the mortal sin is not believing in Jesus. And Romans 6:14 There are indeed people who are believers but who avoid the scriptures because Heb 4:12
The Lord God created all things. All things..
Good and bad, joy and sorrow, Isaiah 45:7 So we see these days that people don't want to hear this. They preach a God who is just compliant, sensibly agreeing with all the inconveniences that people find it okay to live in. The narrow path does not exist and everything is permitted. This is where we as Christians have a responsibility ourselves. Words that Jesus mentions are washed away with dust on a porch. But the fact is that the word shall never pass away Mat 24:35 and Mark 13:31 Words that all believers should think carefully about. If you have something like this in your life.Then throw it away, throw it into the deepest darkness, never take it back. Mark 7:21 and Mat 15:19 These words are very important, because we know that God created all things. ALSO all the Spirits small and great. Remember He saw everything when He created everything. Look at the different creatures in the animal world. Only there do we see that there is no fault with the imagination of the Lord. And not least the inequalities we people have. That's why we have to be alert to all things that are jarring. For example: You see your neighbor rolling a big cabin cruiser up the driveway to his beautiful house. And you feel a hint of envy. Because you've never even had a small dinghy. Right there! You have to be careful. Throw away the thought, preferably before it comes or before you think it! Such small pricks become big problems in the end.And harder for us to reveal
I agree that the doctrine of the lost people burning forever in hell or the lake of fire, as you mentioned, originates from Platonism, along with the concept of the immortal soul. So, if the soul is eternal, then it will burn forever. Scripture says only the saved get the gift of eternal life, the wages of sin is death, Romans 6:23. With the verses you listed, and there are more, Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Those not found written in the book of life will have their part/portion, my understanding is that their punishment, the length of time will match their sins against God before their second death, they will perish, gone forever, not burn forever.
c. Paul's baptism. I mentioned this earlier with Scriptures that Paul continued to baptize, at least accepted its relevancy, during his ministry. I quoted, Acts 18:7,8 (Jews and Gentiles in Corinth); Acts 19:1-5 (disciples at Ephesus); Romans 6:3,4 (the meaning & relevance of water baptism); 1 Corinthians 1:14-17 (Paul's ministry was to preach the Gospel, but he still baptized); Colossians 2:11,12 (baptism as identification with Christ). So baptism in water was still very much practised during Paul's ministry. I can't think of any Scripture showing that Paul "later taught that baptism was not part of the gospel of grace revealed to him."
Paul's teaching on baptism is distinct from the Jewish water baptism practiced by John the Baptist and the apostolic baptism Peter preached at Pentecost. Here's a breakdown of how Paul viewed and taught baptism within the dispensation of grace:
1. Water Baptism Not Central in Paul's Ministry
Paul was not sent to baptize, but to preach the gospel:
"For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel"
- 1 Corinthians 1:17 (KJV)
This is a strong statement. Unlike Peter ( Acts 2:38), Paul separates water baptism from the gospel message of grace. While water baptism continued for a time (as with early Jewish believers), it was not a requirement for salvation under Paul's gospel.
2. Spirit Baptism Into the Body of Christ
Paul emphasizes a spiritual baptism, not involving water, which places the believer into the Body of Christ:
"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body"
- 1 Corinthians 12:13 (KJV)
This baptism is not performed by man, but by the Holy Spirit at the moment of belief. It aligns with Paul's core doctrine of salvation by grace through faith-with no physical work (like water baptism) required.
3. Identification with Christ's Death and Resurrection
Paul also teaches a symbolic baptism in Romans 6:
"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?"
- Romans 6:3-4 (KJV)
This speaks of a positional truth: the believer is spiritually united with Christ's death, burial, and resurrection. Again, this is not water baptism but a spiritual reality that takes place when one trusts the gospel.
Summary:
Peter's gospel ( Acts 2:38) required repentance and water baptism for the remission of sins-part of the Kingdom gospel to Israel.
Paul's gospel ( 1 Cor. 15:1-4; Eph. 2:8-9) presents salvation by grace through faith, without works, and emphasizes Spirit baptism into the Body of Christ, not water baptism.
Paul downplayed water baptism in favor of the spiritual baptism that unites us into one body.
It is true that Peter preached to Israel who were under the Law (and also to the Gentiles: Acts 15:7), but I cannot see that his message was anything of Grace under the Law. Rather Acts 15:7-11 was Peter's direct confrontation to those "Pharisees which believed" (Judaizers?) who promoted circumcision and the keeping of the Law of Moses for the Gentiles, when Peter stated that it would be "a yoke upon the neck of the disciples (new converts), which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear".
So clearly, the Law of Moses (including "obedience to commands and rituals") was removed from those now believing from both Jewish & Gentile stock. So, why didn't Peter preach this "mystery of the Gospel (which included Gentiles)"? Maybe, that wasn't an essential part of his preaching to the Jews, yet the message of salvation remained the same.
And, did Paul not believe in water baptism? He must have: he was baptized himself ( Acts 9:17.18) and spoke of it ( Acts 18:7,8; Acts 19:1-5; Romans 6:3,4; 1 Corinthians 1:14-17; Colossians 2:11,12). So whatever differences we might perceive between the two apostles, would be so minor as to be inconsequential when understanding the vital message of the Gospel, that it was faith alone that saves plus nothing else. GBU.
The programs changed from faith with works to Grace alone.
The Apostle Paul's message, often called the "gospel of grace," centers on the revelation that salvation is offered freely by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ, apart from the works of the Law. Unlike the message given to Israel under the Law, which required obedience to commandments and rituals, Paul's message reveals a new dispensation where both Jews and Gentiles are made one in Christ. In passages such as Ephesians 2:8-9 and Romans 3:28, Paul emphasizes that righteousness is imputed by faith alone, and that boasting in works is excluded. This gospel was a "mystery" revealed to Paul ( Ephesians 3:1-9), setting his ministry apart from the prophetic program previously known, I.E. Peters message.
Paul also taught that believers today are part of the "body of Christ," a spiritual organism distinct from the nation of Israel. Members of this body are sealed with the Holy Spirit and blessed with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places ( Ephesians 1:3, 13). Paul's message includes not only justification by faith but also identification with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection ( Romans 6:3-5), offering believers a new walk in the Spirit rather than under the Law. His grace-centered gospel calls for no physical circumcision, temple worship, or adherence to Mosaic ordinances, but rather a life transformed by Christ's indwelling presence and the hope of heavenly glory.
Hallo "Brother K.P. Brown" Rest assured that there are many here on the website who pray daily for all who come forward and ask for intercession. And what you are talking about is also a reality that all believers throughout the world experience. Also the Apostles in the days they lived here on earth. That is why we have the Holy Scriptures and lean on the words, because the entire Bible is inspired by God. Where the image of Jesus is central across all the pages. And we should not be completely shaken by the evil powers trying to destroy us. Therefore, we have words of comfort and God's promises to hold on to. Romans 6:14 If not seak thru, and find what is good for u. Because we belong to the Lord, we are also vulnerable. We must press forward, throw off everything that weighs us down. And reach out to Jesus Christ who took all our sin on Calvary once and for all. In peace and love I recommend this. Even though it may feel as if the Lord is far away. He is not. We are the ones who need to come into His light. Jesse here has just had a review of the Love Letters of John 1, 2 and 3. It is nice to be reminded of this. And should you feel resistance in what you are about to read. You know that then you have to take even more, to force what is preventing you from having flow in the Lord Jesus Christ. And in Jesus' name we pray for you that God's guidance and victory in Jesus Christ will remain forever. That He will come with understanding and the spirit of wisdom to you and all the believers. And to have a bright and shining life for Him who is worthy of all praise and honor! Like you, I pray for all people every day. And many thanks for the intercession, I appreciate that, everyone needs it. So we pray that the Lord Jesus will give you strength and deliverance from all things that want to destroy, may he really enlighten you to and understand the spirits and which of them are trying and accusing you.
Mark 7:21Mat 28:18 So with Him we shallnotbeunder,butabovewithHim
Hello all dear chosen and beloved. Know that you are all valuable. Even though we should walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil; for You are with me, Your rod and Your staff they comfort me. Hallelujah praise be to God Almighty! Remember that we are all bought with a price. Jesus Christ's blood on Calvary. We honor Your Holy Name. Thank You for sending us the Advocate for all who believe in You Jesus. We just have to love You, live in You, believe in You, and Be With You, so that we can understand with our minds that we have been given, that You keep Your Word. The Word is the only thing we have to hold on to, the Bible. So help us to become Whole in You Lord. Seek Your face and go out and speak to people who are hungry not only for bread. For we do not live by bread alone, but by Every Word of God. For there is a Great hunger for pure and true faith, in general. You Lord can set us on fire for You Jesus. Go forth on Your Word. Where You say, All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alday, even unto the end of the world.
Let us look to what is best for our neighbor. Have we received faith? Have we received love. If we have faith in Jesus, then we have this too. He has saved us and given us faith! Therefore, we should think more about our neighbor than ourselves. What does it mean if little me actually has to stand over one meal. Have one pair of old shoes, live in a forrest, or whatever. And sin shall not dominate us. For we are not under the law, but under grace. Romans 6:14 Hallelujah, so we continue and live a life of faith in God's Son Jesus Christ. He stands before me. Protects me, loved me. What kind of thoughts do you think Jesus must have had when He hung on the cross? Wasn't it just you and me
In John 3:3 Jesus tells Nicodemus "Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God"
Being "born again" means being born from above. You're being born of God's Spirit.
This refers to a spiritual transformation.
When an individual acknowledges their sinfulness and shortcomings and understanding that they are inherently flawed, needing forgiveness and redemption, then come to Christ and recieve Christ as their savior they are Identified with Christ death and ressurection causing a rebirth of Christ Spirit.
Romans 6:3.
Romans 8:10-11.
Afterwards they experiences a new spiritual life that involves a change of heart, a commitment to follow Jesus, and a desire to live according to Christian principles PROVIDING THAT THEY TRULY BELIEVED AND RECEIVED CHRIST!
The Holy Spirit works in the individual's life, transforming their heart and renewing their spirit.
There will be fruit in a believers life that will reflect the rebirth.
I agree! I believe to present God as an angry God is misrepresenting God.
I would present God as Holy!
Nahum 1:3 reads "The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked (kjv).
However, "the wicked" is in italics. Perhaps it should read "The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit.
That means no one gets off!
Sin has to be paid for and the wages of sin is death!
And all have sinned and come short of the glory of God; Romans 3:23.
Romans 6:23 reads "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
At this junction I would present God as a loving God pointing a lost soul to Romans 5:6-9 and " John 3:16-21" "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Romans 5:18 reads "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Adams sin has been imputed on to us. All human beings are counted as having sinned in Adam!
Jesus is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2:2.
Hello sir, from your words it sounds like you already decided what you believe before you look into it. You say interpreters added their own thoughts in italics and I wonder where does such an assumption come from? Sometimes articles like "the" or "a" are needed to complete the translation and they indicate that with brackets or italics. The fact that its being presented in the first place shows more transparency. Other Bibles don't indicate that. There is no word-for-word language translation, you end up missing words and would be incomplete and grammatically incorrect sentences. You can even do a Google Translate of basic words and you might input 4 words and get 3 words back, or vice versa. It doesn't mean there's a grand conspiracy to deceive you and it doesn't mean the devil is behind it. I would suggest studying any foreign language and you will learn more about how translations occur. I looked at the FAQ and saw this below. You can see in the examples "that" was used to complete the translation which is just following English rules, or "it was". I don't think the devil is behind a big conspiracy to make it grammatically correct and clear to readers. The fact that the translators were this transparent shows how careful and forthcoming they were. Also, all of this can be checked anytime against the original Greek/Hebrew so its not like anyone is able to get away with sneaking extra words in.
Q: What do the words in italics or [brackets] mean?
A: These are words the translators added from the Hebrew and Greek to make the English complete. It is also seen in italics in some Bibles.
Examples:
Genesis 1:10
And God called the dry [land] Earth; and the gathering together of
the waters called he Seas: and God saw that [it was] good.
Proverbs 30:11
[There is] a generation [that] curseth their father, and doth not bless
their mother.
Romans 6:5
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall
The Christians get the benefit from the Abraham's God, Jesus Christ.
Romans 8:17
And if children, thenheirs;heirsof God, and joint-heirswith Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
If it wasn't for the gospel of grace in Christ Jesus, the woman would not have the freedom liberty that they have now.
Galatians 5:1
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
We are Adopted into the family of God because of Abraham's faith and we are bless to receive what comes out of it. America is the strongest nation in the world for it.
Galatians 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, andheirsaccording to the promise.
Now we have the gospel of grace that is simple to receive with no works, it's a gift from God in Heaven.
Romans 6:23
For thewagesofsinis death; but the giftofGod is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Reconciliation with God are achieved solely through Jesus Christ, not through human works, merits, or any other means!
Also studying the Bible, reading the Bible is how we grow!
It's NOT how we become saved!
Reading the Bible is crucial for spiritual growth and understanding God's will
Salvation is eternal life!
John 14:6 Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the LIFE: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Jesus is life "eternal!" When we recieve Christ we recieve LIFE!
We receive eternal life through faith in Jesus Christ and His finish work on the cross.
Romans 10:9-10 reads, "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
When we truly trust our life in the work of Christ where he died in our place we become joined with him in his death! ( Romans 6:3 )
When Christ rose from the dead we are Identified with Christ in his ressurection!
That's baptism by the Holyspirit!
You've been Identified by the death and ressurection of Christ! ( Romans 6:4-6.)
This doesn't mean you are ever going to be perfect in this life but it does mean there will be change and that change starts in the heart!
A born again believer is given a new heart, one that no longer wants to sin or be around it.
He may stumble but he is no more a habitual sinner because when he recieved Christ he recieved Christ's Spirit that will no longer let him live in sin.
Godwin no one ever has stopped any sin on their own!
Sin is in the old heart before the act is done.
Godwin if you can trust and believe what Christ has done for you you will receive Christ and Christ is salvation.
Your sanctification is a life long journey.
God bless you.
The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:23.
One is saved by receiving Christ as our Lord and savior!
One must realize he is lost, hopeless, and condemned without Christ!
We will recieve Christ when we come to Christ in faith and put our salvation in his hands, believing in your heart that Jesus is Lord and accepting His payment for sin. (Jesus paid for our sins by taking our place on the cross)
Christ death was a sacrifice for humanity's sins, allowing believers to have a new and eternal life through faith in him
This saving faith is a gift received through God's grace, not earned by your good deeds or good works.
Christ payment on the cross was a payment for the sins for the WHOLE WORLD (that must be received by faith) from Adam until the world ends. John 3:15-18.
I hope this helps.
Let me know if I answered your question.
GBU.
God provided His Son for our salvation; thus determining the one parameter necessary for saving His elect and man is commanded to repent and believe ( Mark 1:15); as well as verbally confess AND believe in their heart ( Romans 10:9 with emphasis on the second issue the heart). Finally baptism I would argue is necessitated as part of this public confession being demonstrated by our association and experiential death; burial and resurrection with Christ (see Romans 6:4 and subsequent scriptures on the subject).
I am not here to argue on whether someone is saved if they die between that verbal confession and heart change and the time set for Baptism; I will say that one should expedite it ASAP in obedience; as good fruit in general needs to be a hallmark of faith.
More broadly; of course we all need to test ourselves to see if we are in the faith; so that actions such as Baptism or confession may not truly have been the result of saving faith. ( 2 Cor. 13:5). Good fruit as seen by the Parable of the sower and the seed is crucial and necessary as God Himself has prepared these good works for us from before our creation ( Eph. 2:10).
This is a key concept; that what we do should be empowered by the Spirit of God and not self righteousness. Outer actions therefore are important but the state of the inner man determines spiritual rewards. Therefore our works don't save us but are needed to bare witness to a new nature motivating and guiding us to a lost and dying world.
God's covenant through the church ensures every true believer is truly saved but there are varying degrees of rewards based on obedience and these result in "crowns" for those in leadership for obedience; martyrs; those patiently waiting for His return; etc.
As Revelation 3:11 shows the Philadelphia faithful church rewards can be taken by another. Some things are a good thing to covet but no one gains the prize by character assassination of another.
Whenever any doctrine or teaching comes up for my consideration, I always go to the heart of the matter. What is the Sabbath Day? Well, it is the fourth Commandment given by God, only to His chosen people Israel ( Exodus 31:13-17). It was given for their complete rest from their busy lives of labor on the other six days. On the other side of the coin, the Ten Commandments, along with the many other commandments were not given to Gentiles. Those who contest this, usually fuse God's relationship to Israel & His Word specifically to Israel, with His Church (of believing Jews and Gentiles). But this has never happened and nowhere in the Word do we read that the Church has to come under those OT commandments, rather, the Church has been given the Holy Spirit, and we ought to obey Him in everything He reveals to us - and this goes beyond anything that the old Law could ever require.
Remember, we are no longer under the Law as the apostle writes in Romans 6:14,15. The Law could only reveal sin, but it gave no power to overcome it - it could only show Israel their sinfulness, thus the requirement of sacrifices to temporarily shield them from God's Wrath. But then Grace came - the Grace of God through His Son's Sacrifice & Gift of the Holy Spirit. Now, both believing Jew and Gentile were forgiven and covered completely & given the Mind of Christ & His Power to live above the stern requirements and penalties of the Law. Onto Page 2.
Romans 6:23
"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
Acts 2:38
"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Blessings
Part 1
Great post and it is primarily what we are discussing in this thread.
I would even add the end of Romans 5 on through Romans 6, 7, and 8.
Romans 5:19- 21 reads, "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Onto Romans 6:1-4,
"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
WE ALSO SHOULD WALK IN NEWNESS OF LIFE!
This statement is not a task! It's a statement of fact!
If a person have been baptized into Christ death and ressurection he's Identified with Christ and born of God's Spirit!
(Verses 8-11)Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
(Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin.) This is factual! It's telling us to "RECOGNIZE" ourselves to be dead indeed unto sin.
This doesn't mean we're perfect!
It means we're not longer slaves to sin.
Paul uses the analogy of a marriage in Romans 7 describing the flesh and it's infirmities.
See part 2.
Exactly right. John's baptism was not a man-made ritual borrowed from Jewish tradition but a direct command from God for a specific purpose in His prophetic plan. John 1:33 makes that clear: "He that sent me to baptize with water"-God Himself commissioned John to prepare Israel for their coming Messiah. It was a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins ( Mark 1:4; Luke 3:3), identifying a believing remnant within the nation who would be ready to receive their King.
But that baptism belonged to Israel's prophetic program, not to what is revealed later through Paul. John's ministry called Israel to repentance and national cleansing before the promised kingdom could be established on earth. It was a shadow of the future when the nation will be washed and restored ( Ezekiel 36:25-27). Yet once Christ's death and resurrection were accomplished, God began a new work-offering salvation to all, Jew and Gentile alike, not through water or outward sign, but by faith alone in the finished work of the cross.
Paul declares that there is now "one baptism" ( Ephesians 4:5), not of water, but by the Spirit into the body of Christ ( 1 Corinthians 12:13). This spiritual baptism identifies believers with Christ's death, burial, and resurrection ( Romans 6:3-4). John's commission looked forward to an earthly kingdom; Paul's gospel looks upward to a heavenly calling. Both were from God, but each served its divine purpose in its proper time. I would love to hear your thoughts on the truths laid out before you.
G&P
When I read about enduring and overcoming, it resonates with me as a call to obedience. Obedience is essential to our walk with God and shows our love for Him. As Giannis said, God's grace is a gift, and our salvation comes from Jesus' sacrifice; we can't do anything to earn it.
Obedience is the foundation of enduring and overcoming the challenges we face in this corrupt world. I agree it is by the blood of the Lamb, Philippians 4:13. Obedience is not a work but an expression of our love for God and the promises He has given us; obedience is on us, Romans 6:16, as Jesus is our guide who was obedient unto death, we are also to be obedient, many in the past has been obedient unto death and many in the future will also. To me, that is the ultimate enduring and overcoming.
I understand some of the verses I listed might fit a time when you and others believe the Church will be taken to heaven and won't be here, but those Scriptures are there for a reason, like Revelation 13:9-10 and Revelation 14:12-13. Those who have genuine faith will endure and overcome the persecution that is coming, even death.
God bless,
RLW
Paul's command (not a request) in 2 Timothy 2:15 - "rightly dividing the word of truth" - makes no sense if there is nothing to divide.
The Greek word translated "rightly divide" means to "cut straight" or "make a correct partition." Paul is instructing Timothy (and us) to handle God's Word carefully, recognizing distinctions God Himself has placed in it. The Bible is one unified revelation, but within it God deals with different people in different ways at different times (dispensations). For example:
Law vs. Grace: God gave Israel the Law through Moses ( Exodus 20), but through Paul He revealed salvation by grace apart from the Law ( Romans 6:14; Galatians 2:16). If we blur these, we end up mixing works with grace.
Israel vs. the Church: Israel was promised an earthly kingdom ( Jeremiah 23:5-6; Matthew 19:28), while the Body of Christ has a heavenly calling ( Ephesians 1:3; Philippians 3:20). If we confuse these, we misapply promises and commands not meant for us.
Gospel of the Kingdom vs. Gospel of Grace: (yes, there is more than one Gospel in the NT) Jesus and the 12 preached "the gospel of the kingdom" to Israel ( Matthew 4:23; Galatians 2:7-9), while Paul was given "the gospel of the grace of God" ( Acts 20:24; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4). Both are true, but they serve different purposes in God's plan.
So Paul's point is: don't blend everything together as if it all applies in the same way to everyone. To "rightly divide" is to discern God's progressive revelation - prophecy vs. mystery, Israel's promises vs. the Church's hope, law vs. grace. If you don't divide, you end up in contradictions and confusion.
G&P
Works Come After Salvation
But Paul goes on immediately in the next verse: "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." ( Ephesians 2:10).
Works are not the root of salvation, but they are the fruit of salvation.
The Spirit of God produces love, service, and obedience in the believer's life ( Galatians 5:22-23; Titus 3:8).
Works are a demonstration of faith, not the basis of it.
The Right Perspective
Works should follow after salvation. But they do not secure salvation, nor do they keep it. They simply manifest the new life we already have in Christ ( 2 Corinthians 5:17).
We are not saved by good works, but we are saved unto good works.
"saved unto good works" is a short phrase with a lot of depth.
1. The Source of Salvation
When Paul says in Ephesians 2:8-9 that salvation is by grace through faith and not of works, he's setting the foundation:
We contribute nothing to earn salvation.
It's God's gift, given freely because of Christ's finished work on the cross.
2. The Purpose of Salvation
Right after that, Paul explains in Ephesians 2:10:
"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."
This means that once God saves us, He also equips us for a new kind of life - a life that reflects His grace, truth, and righteousness.
"Unto good works" means we are saved for the purpose of living out the good things God intended.
3. The Role of Good Works
Not the cause, but the result: Works don't save us, but they are the evidence that we are saved ( Romans 6:4; Titus 3:8).
Spirit-enabled, not self-made: The works are produced as the Spirit lives through us ( Galatians 2:20; Philippians 2:13).
Witness to others: Good works demonstrate Christ's life in us to a watching world ( Matthew 5:16; Philippians 2:15).
The last question, are we saved by grace alone or Grace plus works?
G&P
Thanks for your reply. I understand many see this as comfort, similar to what you hear at a funeral when the preacher says Bob is with Jesus in heaven. Am I going to tell that loved one No, he is not? NO, but what is the actual truth?
Ecclesiastes 9:5, if we die, we know nothing. Psalms 115:17 I believe that if our spirit were alive in heaven, we would be praising the LORD. Our only hope of eternal life is in Jesus; this comes when we are resurrected, not before, 1 Corinthians 15:52-54.
Not to drag this out, I will say, if we all have an immortal spirit, there is no death and no true gift of eternal life because we already possess it. John 3:15, John 10:28, Romans 2:7, Romans 6:23, 1 John 2:25. This is our promise. The others receive death; they will perish, John 3:16, 2 Thessalonians 2:10, 2 Peter 2:12. The word perish is to destroy fully, permanent, absolute destruction. Revelation 21:8 their part, their punishment, and death will fit their sins, not burn for eternity.
Death is not a separation, as Greek philosophy puts it, which has influenced today's understanding.
Thanks again, brother,
God bless,
RLW
Brother Jesse has provided Scriptures to consider on this matter. I could offer Scriptures that would debate these points, but that would not answer your questions. This doctrine originated in 325 A.D. and was expanded over the next 150 years or so. You need to pray and study for your own conscience.
The majority support this doctrine, and some believe it is essential to be a Christian. Jesus is our Lord, and He gave His life to pay the penalty for sin so that we, through Him, can be reconciled to God. The wages of sin are death, Romans 6:23. Jesus' death on the cross paid this price.
Jesus had His own will, but was obedient and did the will of the Father, John 14:31, Luke 22:42, John 5:30, John 17:16, John 12:49.
The Chalcedonian Creed A.D. 451 states, "Christ, Son, Lord, only begotten, to be acknowledged in two natures, in confusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably; the distinction of nature's being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved." Does Scripture support this?
God alone possesses immortality, 1 Timothy 6:16. Our faith rests on the death and resurrection of Jesus, 1 Corinthians 15:3-4, 1 Corinthians 15:12-17. God cannot die. Jesus was tempted in the same ways we are, Hebrews 4:14-16. God cannot be tempted, James 1:13.
The Bible will answer all questions we have if we are ready to receive the answer, Matthew 7:7, James 1:5, with prayer and the guidance of the Holy Spirit-not man.
God bless your study,
RLW
I like to look at it this way.
The penalty is death.
Hebrews 9:22
Romans 6:23
The penalty wasn't forgiven it was pay for. Mark 10:45.
Also.
Romans 5:8-10 reads "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
When we recieved Christ as savior we were baptized into his death and justified by the resurrection of Christ.
Blessings.
I Pray for unity in my prayers and done in my church and community
Matthew 18:19 KJV
My Interpetation REDAPPLETREATY4MEONLY
" When done and praying is showing God as holy to believe. Principle-Holy to all religions.Always performaning righteousness, holiness in actions "to do it" of God, to have faith, hope, love is unity"
Confirmation to all the world. Confirmation is of the Gospel performing of miracle. Trusting in Jesus intercession asking in prayer. A guaranteed result I have received being Christian is utterance of the spirtual man.Accord with Jesus Christ God the Father Romans 6:23 KJV." Quoted on prayers being done must be of God expedient, earnest, faithful, preserving.
Expedient definition- serves to promote or advance any means which may be employed to accomplish an end.
Matthew 18:20 KJV
My Interpetation REDAPPLETREATY4MEONLY:
" Associated scripture Hebrews 10:25 KJV. Jesus in the midst is Psalm 19:4 KJV to be pleasing in his sight 1 John 3:22 KJV. Jesus Christ is omnipresence amd omniscience to all the world. Quoted on blessing on united, congregational prayer. Jesus want you to have the gift of the Holy Ghost-cordial and sincere. Receiving the blessings -When speaking to have the presence of Christ is true and mighty Psalms 21:6 KJV Communion with his church as real. Speaking in advancement of position Psalms 16:11 KJV
Quoted: Measure is in believing the holy bible-Jesus Christ is life to follow.
Word Spoken and Written by REDAPPLETREATY4MEONLY
The Law of Moses revealed our inadequacy-how despicable, miserable, and sinful our ways truly are. However, it did not provide the power to overcome these sinful tendencies; it merely exposed the problem. No one could perfectly keep the law ( Romans 3:12-20, Galatians 3:19, Romans 7:10). As Scripture says, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God ( Romans 3:22, Galatians 3:20, Romans 7:13-14). Jesus Himself highlighted this when He said, "There is one who accuses you, even Moses, in whom you trust." This referred to the Law of Moses, which the Israelites relied upon, yet it only revealed their inability to live righteously ( John 5:45-46).
Grace came to assist those who were unable to keep the law, enabling them to fulfill it. Grace does not make the law void; rather, it establishes the law by empowering us to obey it. As Paul explained, "the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us who walk according to the Spirit" ( Romans 8:3-4).
This principle is illustrated in the parable of the Good Samaritan. A traveler was wounded by thieves . The priests and Levites-representing the law-saw him but could not help. The Good Samaritan (Jesus), however, freely offered aid-representing grace-healing the man from his wounds, which symbolize sin. We partake in this grace by receiving the Spirit of Christ, which helps to walk according to the Spirit rather than our sinful flesh and desires.
The Holy Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of holiness. One cannot continue in sin and claim to possess the Holy Spirit. Grace delivers us from sin; it does not provide permission to remain in it ( Romans 6:1-2). Paul even warned against this attitude in Romans 3:8, where some falsely claimed that continuing in sin was a way of doing good.
When it comes to stupidity; man seemingly has enough to go around to destroy himself without the Devil getting involved. 1 Peter 5:8 states: Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: and Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
When we consider these things; Isaiah 24 helps to clarify events: And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth. (v. 21 I believe). This chapter is so relevant for today I think I will focus my next study on it.
Now some today still hold to correct theology regarding man's ultimate helplessness in sin and inability to do any good; and the need to repent (actually given as a gift by God) and turn from his wicked ways through the help of the Holy Spirit. What many if not almost all fail to communicate effectively is that we change MASTERS in that change of heart from Satan to the Lord Jesus Christ. When we realize that being in league with spiritual darkness also adds to our judgment we understand better what Jesus means by hell was meant for the Devil and his angels ( Matt. 25:41). The world as it were is the conduit through Satan's organization of rulership over governments and regions of the earth to align with his campaign. He uses the flesh to physically act out that which is impressed on the souls of unregenerate man; that is rebellion to seek selfishly those earthly pleasures which soon shall pass.
This concept makes us comprehend how we are slaves of righteousness ( Romans 6:18 in NKJV which artificial intelligence lead me to; which is stronger than just servants in regular KJV.) Yes we are also His friends ( John 15:15) as the enmity was ended ( Eph. 2:16) because of Calvary.
If we look to Psalm 119 we see the longest chapter in all scripture constantly referring to God's law and the author's love for it (I believe David). So the question is...(metronome sound and countdown music)
If we are in the Age of Grace what of the law if we no longer live under it; should we still love it?
This bears some thought; as we can glibly say well of course. We are reminded it is as our schoolmaster and seems harsh at the time ( Hebrews 12:11). Also the fact that no one can be saved by the law; on the contrary it is used to convict of sin; and of course if anyone breaks it even once is cursed ( Gal. 3:10 in KJV although other translations seem to try to dilute this concept it seems). How can we love His law then? The answer...(ditto metronome).
Of course it has to do with LOVE; and the verse I already stated that those who love Him keep His commandments. God doesn't accept alternate paths to Himself through our own self justification or righteousness. He doesn't accept clear defiance of commands that are part of the moral law that transcend to all generations. Obviously with grace abounding over sin we don't sin for more grace ( Romans 6:1-2).
Of course tied in with this idea man is basically good is the concept that we shouldn't offend anyone; or the scripture is twisted about not judging one another; despite Paul's clear teaching on the matter of judging within the body of Christ matters that ought not to be in the world's courts. We of course will also judge the world as corulers with Christ ( 1 Cor. 6:2); and angels ( 1 Cor. 6:3). Love therefore involves telling the truth. Telling a lie in a loving manner isn't really love of course; and neither is not warning someone when we can see they are headed for destruction.
God first loved us first ( 1 John 4:19); and of course we all should know John 3:16. His love had to come to us through imputed righteousness from Christ's atonament to be in His presence.
The Lord God created all things. All things..
Good and bad, joy and sorrow, Isaiah 45:7 So we see these days that people don't want to hear this. They preach a God who is just compliant, sensibly agreeing with all the inconveniences that people find it okay to live in. The narrow path does not exist and everything is permitted. This is where we as Christians have a responsibility ourselves. Words that Jesus mentions are washed away with dust on a porch. But the fact is that the word shall never pass away Mat 24:35 and Mark 13:31 Words that all believers should think carefully about. If you have something like this in your life.Then throw it away, throw it into the deepest darkness, never take it back. Mark 7:21 and Mat 15:19 These words are very important, because we know that God created all things. ALSO all the Spirits small and great. Remember He saw everything when He created everything. Look at the different creatures in the animal world. Only there do we see that there is no fault with the imagination of the Lord. And not least the inequalities we people have. That's why we have to be alert to all things that are jarring. For example: You see your neighbor rolling a big cabin cruiser up the driveway to his beautiful house. And you feel a hint of envy. Because you've never even had a small dinghy. Right there! You have to be careful. Throw away the thought, preferably before it comes or before you think it! Such small pricks become big problems in the end.And harder for us to reveal
The Lord God created all things. All things..
I agree that the doctrine of the lost people burning forever in hell or the lake of fire, as you mentioned, originates from Platonism, along with the concept of the immortal soul. So, if the soul is eternal, then it will burn forever. Scripture says only the saved get the gift of eternal life, the wages of sin is death, Romans 6:23. With the verses you listed, and there are more, Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Those not found written in the book of life will have their part/portion, my understanding is that their punishment, the length of time will match their sins against God before their second death, they will perish, gone forever, not burn forever.
God bless,
RLW
c. Paul's baptism. I mentioned this earlier with Scriptures that Paul continued to baptize, at least accepted its relevancy, during his ministry. I quoted, Acts 18:7,8 (Jews and Gentiles in Corinth); Acts 19:1-5 (disciples at Ephesus); Romans 6:3,4 (the meaning & relevance of water baptism); 1 Corinthians 1:14-17 (Paul's ministry was to preach the Gospel, but he still baptized); Colossians 2:11,12 (baptism as identification with Christ). So baptism in water was still very much practised during Paul's ministry. I can't think of any Scripture showing that Paul "later taught that baptism was not part of the gospel of grace revealed to him."
Thank you again for your time & input. Blessings.
1. Water Baptism Not Central in Paul's Ministry
Paul was not sent to baptize, but to preach the gospel:
"For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel"
- 1 Corinthians 1:17 (KJV)
This is a strong statement. Unlike Peter ( Acts 2:38), Paul separates water baptism from the gospel message of grace. While water baptism continued for a time (as with early Jewish believers), it was not a requirement for salvation under Paul's gospel.
2. Spirit Baptism Into the Body of Christ
Paul emphasizes a spiritual baptism, not involving water, which places the believer into the Body of Christ:
"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body"
- 1 Corinthians 12:13 (KJV)
This baptism is not performed by man, but by the Holy Spirit at the moment of belief. It aligns with Paul's core doctrine of salvation by grace through faith-with no physical work (like water baptism) required.
3. Identification with Christ's Death and Resurrection
Paul also teaches a symbolic baptism in Romans 6:
"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?"
- Romans 6:3-4 (KJV)
This speaks of a positional truth: the believer is spiritually united with Christ's death, burial, and resurrection. Again, this is not water baptism but a spiritual reality that takes place when one trusts the gospel.
Summary:
Peter's gospel ( Acts 2:38) required repentance and water baptism for the remission of sins-part of the Kingdom gospel to Israel.
Paul's gospel ( 1 Cor. 15:1-4; Eph. 2:8-9) presents salvation by grace through faith, without works, and emphasizes Spirit baptism into the Body of Christ, not water baptism.
Paul downplayed water baptism in favor of the spiritual baptism that unites us into one body.
It is true that Peter preached to Israel who were under the Law (and also to the Gentiles: Acts 15:7), but I cannot see that his message was anything of Grace under the Law. Rather Acts 15:7-11 was Peter's direct confrontation to those "Pharisees which believed" (Judaizers?) who promoted circumcision and the keeping of the Law of Moses for the Gentiles, when Peter stated that it would be "a yoke upon the neck of the disciples (new converts), which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear".
So clearly, the Law of Moses (including "obedience to commands and rituals") was removed from those now believing from both Jewish & Gentile stock. So, why didn't Peter preach this "mystery of the Gospel (which included Gentiles)"? Maybe, that wasn't an essential part of his preaching to the Jews, yet the message of salvation remained the same.
And, did Paul not believe in water baptism? He must have: he was baptized himself ( Acts 9:17.18) and spoke of it ( Acts 18:7,8; Acts 19:1-5; Romans 6:3,4; 1 Corinthians 1:14-17; Colossians 2:11,12). So whatever differences we might perceive between the two apostles, would be so minor as to be inconsequential when understanding the vital message of the Gospel, that it was faith alone that saves plus nothing else. GBU.
The programs changed from faith with works to Grace alone.
The Apostle Paul's message, often called the "gospel of grace," centers on the revelation that salvation is offered freely by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ, apart from the works of the Law. Unlike the message given to Israel under the Law, which required obedience to commandments and rituals, Paul's message reveals a new dispensation where both Jews and Gentiles are made one in Christ. In passages such as Ephesians 2:8-9 and Romans 3:28, Paul emphasizes that righteousness is imputed by faith alone, and that boasting in works is excluded. This gospel was a "mystery" revealed to Paul ( Ephesians 3:1-9), setting his ministry apart from the prophetic program previously known, I.E. Peters message.
Paul also taught that believers today are part of the "body of Christ," a spiritual organism distinct from the nation of Israel. Members of this body are sealed with the Holy Spirit and blessed with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places ( Ephesians 1:3, 13). Paul's message includes not only justification by faith but also identification with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection ( Romans 6:3-5), offering believers a new walk in the Spirit rather than under the Law. His grace-centered gospel calls for no physical circumcision, temple worship, or adherence to Mosaic ordinances, but rather a life transformed by Christ's indwelling presence and the hope of heavenly glory.
Thanks.
Mark 7:21 Mat 28:18 So with Him we shallnotbeunder,butabovewithHim
Let us look to what is best for our neighbor. Have we received faith? Have we received love. If we have faith in Jesus, then we have this too. He has saved us and given us faith! Therefore, we should think more about our neighbor than ourselves. What does it mean if little me actually has to stand over one meal. Have one pair of old shoes, live in a forrest, or whatever. And sin shall not dominate us. For we are not under the law, but under grace. Romans 6:14 Hallelujah, so we continue and live a life of faith in God's Son Jesus Christ. He stands before me. Protects me, loved me. What kind of thoughts do you think Jesus must have had when He hung on the cross? Wasn't it just you and me
In John 3:3 Jesus tells Nicodemus "Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God"
Being "born again" means being born from above. You're being born of God's Spirit.
This refers to a spiritual transformation.
When an individual acknowledges their sinfulness and shortcomings and understanding that they are inherently flawed, needing forgiveness and redemption, then come to Christ and recieve Christ as their savior they are Identified with Christ death and ressurection causing a rebirth of Christ Spirit.
Romans 6:3.
Romans 8:10-11.
Afterwards they experiences a new spiritual life that involves a change of heart, a commitment to follow Jesus, and a desire to live according to Christian principles PROVIDING THAT THEY TRULY BELIEVED AND RECEIVED CHRIST!
The Holy Spirit works in the individual's life, transforming their heart and renewing their spirit.
There will be fruit in a believers life that will reflect the rebirth.
I hope this helps.
God bless.
I agree! I believe to present God as an angry God is misrepresenting God.
I would present God as Holy!
Nahum 1:3 reads "The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked (kjv).
However, "the wicked" is in italics. Perhaps it should read "The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit.
That means no one gets off!
Sin has to be paid for and the wages of sin is death!
And all have sinned and come short of the glory of God; Romans 3:23.
Romans 6:23 reads "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
At this junction I would present God as a loving God pointing a lost soul to Romans 5:6-9 and " John 3:16-21" "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Romans 5:18 reads "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Adams sin has been imputed on to us. All human beings are counted as having sinned in Adam!
Jesus is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2:2.
God is Holy, Just and Love.
God bless.
Q: What do the words in italics or [brackets] mean?
A: These are words the translators added from the Hebrew and Greek to make the English complete. It is also seen in italics in some Bibles.
Examples:
Genesis 1:10
And God called the dry [land] Earth; and the gathering together of
the waters called he Seas: and God saw that [it was] good.
Proverbs 30:11
[There is] a generation [that] curseth their father, and doth not bless
their mother.
Romans 6:5
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall
be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection:
The Christians get the benefit from the Abraham's God, Jesus Christ.
Romans 8:17
And if children, thenheirs;heirsof God, and joint-heirswith Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
If it wasn't for the gospel of grace in Christ Jesus, the woman would not have the freedom liberty that they have now.
Galatians 5:1
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
We are Adopted into the family of God because of Abraham's faith and we are bless to receive what comes out of it. America is the strongest nation in the world for it.
Galatians 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, andheirsaccording to the promise.
Now we have the gospel of grace that is simple to receive with no works, it's a gift from God in Heaven.
Romans 6:23
For thewagesofsinis death; but the giftofGod is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Ray, in Christ Jesus 1 Corinthians 15:1-4
The free gift of the gospel of grace.