As a seven day adventist. I now live in foreign country. I've met a new church community here. There go to Church on Sunday. Not a Catholic church. I continue to struggle going to church on Sunday instead of Saturday. What does the bible verse really mean about Mark 2:27. The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath? What does that really mean?
It should be noted that the Lord had the most grief from those who's ideas of what the sabbath was and wgaypt it was for plague Him nigh on for over 3 years . That alone shouild be taken as a warning or to take care in approaching tnis subject.
It is still little understood ,I would argue chiefly due to either a legalistic aproach or lack of biblical understanding .
But surfice to say that it is written that if one "esteems one day and another esteems all days" alike there shouid not be any strife over the matter if there is you can put it down to carnality .
It is also written "let no man judge you in meat or drink or of sabbaths .." wether you esteem one day or all alike.
And if as it is generally accepted that the sabbath is a day of rest as God rested on the seventh day .
Then is it not written that we are to " rest from our works even as God did from His"? That's not talking about doing no work in the usual sense but rather the works of the flesh as in no longer walking after the flesh but the spirit .
But in the matter of one or aLl Paul says let a man be "fully persuaded in his own mind on the matter "
Prayerful study of the scriptures without jumping to conclusions for any man that jumps to conclusions never " arrives at thectruth" .
Thank you for your reply . The text is biblical as in I quoted a verse of scripture my clarification of it yiu say is in error . No man is infallible ( though some religious claim they are) yet you simply sssert it is'unbiblucal or I have somehow twisted the s ruptures etc. Yet you do not prove or show how it is in error . But I assume because it may not conform to your many accepted idea of its meaning .
The text " .we are to rest from our labours as God did from His" you do not deny . But what I said after 'that's not talking about work in the usual sense but the works of the flesh rather than those of the Spirit '.
How am I therefore twisting the scriptures? For God did clearly rest on the 7th day . But who can say zGod needs test? " For He never slumbers or sleeps"?
How then or what is this rest? It is man that now 'works' by " the sweat of his brow" and needs a 'rest '.
It cannot be said at all that God was strained by His Labours .and need to rest'.
So when we are to rest from our labours as God did from His therevis clearky more to this than meets the eye .
A superficial reading of the passage will lead people down the same road as those Pharisees who complained not only of the disciples rushing corn in their hands on the sabbath for food but objecting to a man with a withered arm being healed on the Sabbath this was in the last week I believe of the Lords labours on earth and no wonder He was " angry" at them for their obstinate refusal even after over three years of ministry still holding to their errors .
So I say again the ball is in your ciyrt so to speak to show me where aI am twisting the scriptures .
And again I say what " work" did God do that He rested from? Does God need to rest? Then what work are we to rest from as God did from His?
And again I say there are the works of the flesh . And there are those good works preordained from before the foundations of the world .of the Spirit.
By the flesh as I said before ( again) I'm not tall king about breaking corn in the hands for food on the sabbath or putting on a light switch .Cooking dinner walking more than a certain distance from the hiyse .The Jews do all that and they are not justified .
I'm talking about as I said before those works of " wood hay and stubble" if yiur talking about"rest" was it not the rest of going into the promised land that they failed to enter into because of " unbelief" .
So what works and what rest? And I'll repeat again for the last time . If one person esteems one day above all others and another esteems all days alike Paul says " let each be fully persuaded in their own minds" on the matter but let no brother judge the other .If your fully persuaded of the One day praise the Lord ,I of them all being fully persuaded thy the s riotures that the sabbaths were given as foreshadow of that which is to come .
Praise the Lord .
Any contentions between brethren is simply down to carnal tninking . And I won't do it .
My last post might have come across as harsh for that I apologise.
For the record ,I am not disputing about a sabbath day ,one day in 7 a day of rest . In the wisdom of God it is a good thing now sadly lost when people don't have to go to work ,most shops are shut and the place is quiet etc and moreover can meet withthe Lord and with Gods people .
When we used to meet on Saturday and Sunday it rejoiced my heart for it cut the ground under the feet wolf those who fir legal reasons contend over what sabbath day .
Paul's warns against such contentions . My reason for answering the original lpost was to show him how the Lord had much contention with similar people in his day . That alone should becacwarning bell to all of Gods people .
I refuse to 'debate' the issue when no answer is given to reasonable objections to such 'positions'.
And again Isay if one man esteems one day above all others and another esteems all days alike then ,et them be fully orrsauded in their own minds about it says Paul but let no man judge you about them. So praise the Lord .
If you honour the Lord on one day or all . The Lord is honoured .
The sabbath was" given as a foreshadow of a rest to come".
Praise the Lord .
Again I say did God get weary after working 6 days?
And what about " The Wirds that I speak are not my own words but the Father who is in me He doeth the work"?
Ard are we to rest from those works as well?
And what if every idle word? Which clearly do not do any work at all then there are words that do a work also .
Do we not speak then on the Sabbath ?
For clearly by that commandment so beloved by those who wish to be justified by it we must rest from all our works .
I do understand where you are coming from in this dialog. Paul is clear that it is morally fine for someone to keep the Sabbath day holy unto the Lord and also clear that one can keep any day as holy unto the Lord or every day holy. It is a matter of Christian liberty that we seek the direction of the Holy Spirit as to what we personally are to do in this matter and to be fully persuaded in what the Spirit has led us to do in this time of one's life.
Jesus said that He is the Lord of the Sabbath. It belongs to Him for His glory for us to do good on it as we ought to do everyday. The Jews had a multitude of regulations that specified how one is to keep the Sabbath holy. But these regulations were done away with at the cross for those of us in Christ. Because the Jews did not have the Holy Spirit dwelling in them, their was a need to put a "fence" (these regulations) around the Sabbath in order to help them to keep their focus on God for that Day.
But we who are in Christ have the Holy Spirit as our constant source of connection to the true God and the Spirit is the One who "fences us in" (so to speak) as to how to live each day in godliness and and god-wardness. This is so much better than what the Jews tried to do on one day of the week. We can live everyday with the Lord wherever we are and in whatever we do, not because we, in ourselves, have the power to do so, but because the Father and the Son live within us by the Holy Spirit ( John 14:21) we are blessed to have continual fellowship with God and constant assistance and power to live a life that honors Him in all we say and do.
I do not deny the scriptures but if you notice in the one you quoted it was to " the children of Isreal" that the commandment was given .
But again if you apply that we should " rest" even as God did rest from our works asHe did from His. Does God need rest? Did He sit down or stop working exhausted from His labours? As we must also?
We might need to have such a rest from our physical but God does not for His work was not " by the sweat of His brow?
I put it therefore when in Hebrews it says we are to rest from our work even; as God did from His .
It is speaking about works of the flesh or by deeds of the law not grinding corn in our hands ,or not switching off light bulbs or ploughing our field etc . But we can rescue a neighbours cattle fallen into a pit .
Or as Jesus said of the matter if you can do that yiu can most certainly heal a man of a withered hand on the sabbath . But no the religious of his day thought not .
So what work then is God talking about?
It's the works of the flesh the striving of the flesh to establish your own righteousness by your works even as Cain did with his .
But are there not also other works? " preordained from before the foundation of the world that we should walk in them"?
So we have two works the works of the flesh ."The wood hay and stubble " that won't stand the fire .
And those works of gold and silver .
The foundation though laid if we are true born children of God is one thing " be careful what you build on it" said Paul .
Do we seek to build works of the flesh or the Spirit? And which will last?
God did not need to rest .He neither slumbers or sleeps .
Jesus said " The Words I speak are not my own words but the Father who is IN Me He doeth the work"
Did He not also say " As the Father sent Me so send I you"? And in another place " greater works shall you do."
If the Father was in the Son and the Father did the work . Then is it not Christ in you ? Who then does the work ?
In what way then did I mislead? Or act uncharitably?
But let it be understood that text can be easily misunderstood both as to intent and motive .
If you care to look again I simply presented the fact of the Lords problem with those who's understanding of the Sabbath was at such variance with the truth . I pointed out this alone shouid be taken as warning bells on the subject .
It still is by those who are obsessed with their own denominational interpretation of the subject .
You found fault with not putting in chapter and verse ? For one thing I rarely use obscure verses of scripture but well known and nigh on always " quote" the verse when I do . Given this websites excellent search engine for verses Is it not far better for any who are in doubt as to what the s riotures say to go and look it up for themselves as also it's context and any commentary?
Faith comes not just by hearing but by u derstanding thecWord of God . If a man's words cannot be heard let alone understood unless he gives his breath or life to his words how much the less will we hear and understand Gods Word without the Holy Spirit . You imply or said I expressed my own opinions ? Please show me where and in what way was it wrong what I said .
The s riotures " quoted" are very clear and as clear as those who demand one particular day ( theirs) yet they neither prove or show how those two are reconciled .
My warning therefore was both charitable and not without reason and gave enough "scripture" to give some light on the matter .
Given the state of the church is in and the contentions that were resolved long ago by biblical argument but still 'debatedc' by so many today while I cannot demy the scriptures you quoted about the leading of the Holy Spirit etc ,I must wonder why therevis do much confusion by so many professing Christian's .
In this matter as also many others expecialky concerning thec" last days" and the coming of the Lord and the Brudebif Christ .
I say again the greatest problem the Lord had all His life of ministry was that concerning the Sabbath . It shouid make rvery child of God be aware and on guard against unprofitable contentions with those who have similar ideas of the sabbath and who think their salvation depends on their observing one day over the rest .not working . There is no end to that one the Jews are proof of it.
If we are true born children of God then we are both by the Spirit and the Word of God ( " the water and the Spurit") Not the Word only but also the Spirit of truth .
For there is the body of truth which is the scriptures and the Spirit of truth the Holy Spurit .
"If we now live in the Spirit we dhouod also walk in the Spirit".
A new born has life but to live that life it needs to be continually filled with the breath of life.
So also a true born child of God . It is not though automatic .
For was it not to christians Paul was specifically speaking to of whom he said " ye are yet carnal"? ( Corinthians) .
And was it not also to christians who he prayed for in Ephesians that " the eyes of theur understanding may be opened? "
Now we know that their eyes of their understanding had been opened unto salvation for salvation comes by hearing and understanding thecWord of God . But in this case they were still blind to the power that was now " towards them"
To live in the Spirit is good but it takes time to learn to walk in the Spirit ." Fir how can two walk together unless they agree"?
Thank you for your post but again you have not pointed out my error . Nor addressed the issue raised how much of the Lords opposition were with those over the Sabbath.
Nor addressed or reconciled how if taking the sabbath as it is written from God making the 7 th day a day of rest for He rested from all His works on the 7th day . With that verse ALSO written that " we are to rest from all our works as God did from His" Nor have you addressed Paul teaching about one esteeming one day and another every day ?
But simply quite a lot of verses at me not related . Or bring in some idea I'm trying to 'save" someone etc wgen only God can .What relevance is that to the matter in hand .
Or the fact that "the sabbath was but a foreshadow.."
I am not going to go on about it but simply once again warn of one denominations obsession with the matter in a manner that is not unlike the Pharisees the Lord faced and for the same reasons .
If one person esteems one day above all others and another esteems all alike then let both be fully orrsauded in their own minds says Paul . Anything else is but carnal thinking .
I responded to the original post seeking to help the poster not " save them" . The warning is substantive .
It is unprofitable to continue unless you adress points raised .
Hello Pepe. I can understand the dilemma & difficulty you have of going to a Sunday service instead of a Sabbath service, as this aspect of observance is highly stressed to all SDA adherents at the outset. In fact, old-time SDAs would tell you that those who worship the LORD on a Sunday have the mark of the beast upon them. So, it's not easy having to deal with such a change (and belief).
Whenever any doctrine or teaching comes up for my consideration, I always go to the heart of the matter. What is the Sabbath Day? Well, it is the fourth Commandment given by God, only to His chosen people Israel ( Exodus 31:13-17). It was given for their complete rest from their busy lives of labor on the other six days. On the other side of the coin, the Ten Commandments, along with the many other commandments were not given to Gentiles. Those who contest this, usually fuse God's relationship to Israel & His Word specifically to Israel, with His Church (of believing Jews and Gentiles). But this has never happened and nowhere in the Word do we read that the Church has to come under those OT commandments, rather, the Church has been given the Holy Spirit, and we ought to obey Him in everything He reveals to us - and this goes beyond anything that the old Law could ever require.
Remember, we are no longer under the Law as the apostle writes in Romans 6:14,15. The Law could only reveal sin, but it gave no power to overcome it - it could only show Israel their sinfulness, thus the requirement of sacrifices to temporarily shield them from God's Wrath. But then Grace came - the Grace of God through His Son's Sacrifice & Gift of the Holy Spirit. Now, both believing Jew and Gentile were forgiven and covered completely & given the Mind of Christ & His Power to live above the stern requirements and penalties of the Law. Onto Page 2.
The Sabbath Day was given specifically as a day of rest. There was no core requirement that it should also be a worship day, though the Jewish priests conducted their business continually throughout the week. So even now, if any desire to still abide by the fourth Commandment, then to give that seventh day entirely to rest, recuperation, & spiritual activities would be in order. But to insist that those who are In Christ must worship only on that day, goes against NT teaching; even as you quoted Mark 2:27, where Jesus was reprimanded for 'working' (i.e. picking ears of corn to satisfy hunger) on the Sabbath. Yes, by Law, Jesus broke that Commandment, but Jesus was showing to those Pharisees that the Sabbath observance must not interfere with a necessity of life (in this case, hunger). Why? The Sabbath was given for man's benefit (for rest & rejuvenation) and not the other way around (i.e. for man to have to suffer in hunger, thereby negating the complete rest that the Sabbath Day was meant to give him). And of course, through His Sacrifice, Jesus altogether removed the commandments that kept man bound in his sin, nailing them to the Cross ( Colossians 2:9-17). And if we still adhere to the Law, the apostle states that "we have fallen from grace" ( Galatians 5:4), for we simply cannot be justified through the Law and Grace - it is one or the other and to expect justification by the Law will not work before God.
I realize that I have written much but I really hope you might read these verses given and wait on God's Spirit to help you understand and appropriate these Truths in your heart. It won't be easy because of past recollections, but I pray that the Holy Spirit would help you understand the great significance of Christ's death for us, justifying by faith and not by to the Law, and even changing those apostles who once strongly held onto Jewish Laws and traditions, to wholly embrace Christ & obedience to His Law through the Spirit. Blessings.
Not to pick nit but we cannot say Jesus broke the Law not for an instant for if he broke one he broke them all or it wouod contradict His own statement that He came to fulfil the law .
What He did was challenge the false interpretation and regulations of man's traditions .
He also pointed out that the Levi's continually 'broke the law ' by ministering in the temple on the Sabbath .
There is a righteousness that is of the Law and the righteousness that is of THE faith . He came to fulfil both He said at His baptism . The police break the law when they chase criminals breaking the speed limit . But are not guilty .
We cannot fulfill the law fir "no man is justified by the law " but we are counted righteous through Him . By faith .
But we also by faith uphold the Law . How? Because by faith we are " crucified with Christ" . The old man is put to death in Christ .and we are then " buried with Christ" in baptism by faith . You do not bury the living but the dead and again by faith we are raised together with Christ " who was raised " fir our justification".
Thus in Christ we "uphold the Law".
No man can crucify himself it's impossible .
How was the Lord crucified? Yes by the hands of wicked men . But primarily by the Word of God ,by the Will of God and by the Spirit of God . So likewise are we " crucified with Christ " .
We rest then not in our 'good' works but in Gods good work at Calvary .
IN Christ .in effect Seated with Him in heavenly places .
Caine sought to establish his own righteousness by his good works and thus denied Gods . And in seeking his own glory sought not Gods .
Abel by his offering confessed his sin the righteousness of God and showed his faith was in the promised "Lamb of God who would take away the sin of the world "
I fear many have similar mistaken views of the Sabbath also .
Thanks for your comment Gerald. Even though I didn't expand my comment to Pepe about Jesus breaking the Law, rather, mentioning that "Jesus was showing to those Pharisees that the Sabbath observance must not interfere with sustaining life", there still remains the problem of the nature of the Law & its requirements.
The Law given to Israel was "holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good" ( Romans 7:12) in every respect, and its very nature called for strict unswerving obedience or face dire consequences. In those instances (of Jesus & His disciples picking ears of corn on the Sabbath Day, or the man picking up sticks on the Sabbath, even this woman caught in adultery), all required the death penalty ( Exodus 31:14; Numbers 15:32-36; Leviticus 20:10). So, the Pharisees could rightly (according to the Law they were under) demand the death penalty for that woman; though one could argue whether they even had the authority to make such judgement as Israel's monarchies and authoritative judicial system had long ended, and these religious leaders were simply self-appointed (spiritual) leaders, post captivity.
When Jesus came on the scene and not only taught Truths that went against pharisaical teachings, He also presented Himself to them as the Lord of the Sabbath ( Mark 2:28). Of course, Jesus' Deity is clearly seen in that claim, but the point of His Words to them was that as Lord, He had both the rule and the last Word concerning the Law. The Law-giver Who took on human flesh, preparing to sacrifice His Life so that God's Grace for salvation could be imparted to all who call upon His Name, was in the throes of ushering a new Law that would clearly reflect that Grace - a Law of Love, Compassion, & Forgiveness. The Old Law couldn't do that: severe punishment for any departure from it was certain. Onto Page 2.
Jesus, now as Lord, stood in-between that Old Law that would soon pass away & the New Law imparted through His Blood and by His Spirit. Yes, Jesus broke that Sabbath Law, but as Lord of the Sabbath He had the authority to correctly interpret it and apply it, and even do away with it as would be the case, even as you gave the example of police breaking speed limits when chasing an erring driver and yet the police themselves are absolved of guilt. That doesn't make sense to us, but we accept it because the police are acting according to their Law & so have the authority to do so.
Jesus, the Word of God, as Law-Framer, Law-Giver, and Law-Changer is His Own Authority: maybe a Law breaker according to points of Law, but having full authority to interpret and apply it. For by His Coming when He did, that was the time of liberating transition between the Law that led to man's eternal curse and death, to a new life of salvation, blessing & eternal life by faith in the Spirit. Blessings.
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It is still little understood ,I would argue chiefly due to either a legalistic aproach or lack of biblical understanding .
But surfice to say that it is written that if one "esteems one day and another esteems all days" alike there shouid not be any strife over the matter if there is you can put it down to carnality .
It is also written "let no man judge you in meat or drink or of sabbaths .." wether you esteem one day or all alike.
And if as it is generally accepted that the sabbath is a day of rest as God rested on the seventh day .
Then is it not written that we are to " rest from our works even as God did from His"? That's not talking about doing no work in the usual sense but rather the works of the flesh as in no longer walking after the flesh but the spirit .
But in the matter of one or aLl Paul says let a man be "fully persuaded in his own mind on the matter "
Prayerful study of the scriptures without jumping to conclusions for any man that jumps to conclusions never " arrives at thectruth" .
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The text " .we are to rest from our labours as God did from His" you do not deny . But what I said after 'that's not talking about work in the usual sense but the works of the flesh rather than those of the Spirit '.
How am I therefore twisting the scriptures? For God did clearly rest on the 7th day . But who can say zGod needs test? " For He never slumbers or sleeps"?
How then or what is this rest? It is man that now 'works' by " the sweat of his brow" and needs a 'rest '.
It cannot be said at all that God was strained by His Labours .and need to rest'.
So when we are to rest from our labours as God did from His therevis clearky more to this than meets the eye .
A superficial reading of the passage will lead people down the same road as those Pharisees who complained not only of the disciples rushing corn in their hands on the sabbath for food but objecting to a man with a withered arm being healed on the Sabbath this was in the last week I believe of the Lords labours on earth and no wonder He was " angry" at them for their obstinate refusal even after over three years of ministry still holding to their errors .
So I say again the ball is in your ciyrt so to speak to show me where aI am twisting the scriptures .
I await your answer with interest .
GB
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And again I say there are the works of the flesh . And there are those good works preordained from before the foundations of the world .of the Spirit.
By the flesh as I said before ( again) I'm not tall king about breaking corn in the hands for food on the sabbath or putting on a light switch .Cooking dinner walking more than a certain distance from the hiyse .The Jews do all that and they are not justified .
I'm talking about as I said before those works of " wood hay and stubble" if yiur talking about"rest" was it not the rest of going into the promised land that they failed to enter into because of " unbelief" .
So what works and what rest? And I'll repeat again for the last time . If one person esteems one day above all others and another esteems all days alike Paul says " let each be fully persuaded in their own minds" on the matter but let no brother judge the other .If your fully persuaded of the One day praise the Lord ,I of them all being fully persuaded thy the s riotures that the sabbaths were given as foreshadow of that which is to come .
Praise the Lord .
Any contentions between brethren is simply down to carnal tninking . And I won't do it .
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For the record ,I am not disputing about a sabbath day ,one day in 7 a day of rest . In the wisdom of God it is a good thing now sadly lost when people don't have to go to work ,most shops are shut and the place is quiet etc and moreover can meet withthe Lord and with Gods people .
When we used to meet on Saturday and Sunday it rejoiced my heart for it cut the ground under the feet wolf those who fir legal reasons contend over what sabbath day .
Paul's warns against such contentions . My reason for answering the original lpost was to show him how the Lord had much contention with similar people in his day . That alone should becacwarning bell to all of Gods people .
I refuse to 'debate' the issue when no answer is given to reasonable objections to such 'positions'.
And again Isay if one man esteems one day above all others and another esteems all days alike then ,et them be fully orrsauded in their own minds about it says Paul but let no man judge you about them. So praise the Lord .
If you honour the Lord on one day or all . The Lord is honoured .
The sabbath was" given as a foreshadow of a rest to come".
Praise the Lord .
Again I say did God get weary after working 6 days?
And what about " The Wirds that I speak are not my own words but the Father who is in me He doeth the work"?
Ard are we to rest from those works as well?
And what if every idle word? Which clearly do not do any work at all then there are words that do a work also .
Do we not speak then on the Sabbath ?
For clearly by that commandment so beloved by those who wish to be justified by it we must rest from all our works .
And here I am again .
I've said enough .
GB
I do understand where you are coming from in this dialog. Paul is clear that it is morally fine for someone to keep the Sabbath day holy unto the Lord and also clear that one can keep any day as holy unto the Lord or every day holy. It is a matter of Christian liberty that we seek the direction of the Holy Spirit as to what we personally are to do in this matter and to be fully persuaded in what the Spirit has led us to do in this time of one's life.
Jesus said that He is the Lord of the Sabbath. It belongs to Him for His glory for us to do good on it as we ought to do everyday. The Jews had a multitude of regulations that specified how one is to keep the Sabbath holy. But these regulations were done away with at the cross for those of us in Christ. Because the Jews did not have the Holy Spirit dwelling in them, their was a need to put a "fence" (these regulations) around the Sabbath in order to help them to keep their focus on God for that Day.
But we who are in Christ have the Holy Spirit as our constant source of connection to the true God and the Spirit is the One who "fences us in" (so to speak) as to how to live each day in godliness and and god-wardness. This is so much better than what the Jews tried to do on one day of the week. We can live everyday with the Lord wherever we are and in whatever we do, not because we, in ourselves, have the power to do so, but because the Father and the Son live within us by the Holy Spirit ( John 14:21) we are blessed to have continual fellowship with God and constant assistance and power to live a life that honors Him in all we say and do.
But again if you apply that we should " rest" even as God did rest from our works asHe did from His. Does God need rest? Did He sit down or stop working exhausted from His labours? As we must also?
We might need to have such a rest from our physical but God does not for His work was not " by the sweat of His brow?
I put it therefore when in Hebrews it says we are to rest from our work even; as God did from His .
It is speaking about works of the flesh or by deeds of the law not grinding corn in our hands ,or not switching off light bulbs or ploughing our field etc . But we can rescue a neighbours cattle fallen into a pit .
Or as Jesus said of the matter if you can do that yiu can most certainly heal a man of a withered hand on the sabbath . But no the religious of his day thought not .
So what work then is God talking about?
It's the works of the flesh the striving of the flesh to establish your own righteousness by your works even as Cain did with his .
But are there not also other works? " preordained from before the foundation of the world that we should walk in them"?
So we have two works the works of the flesh ."The wood hay and stubble " that won't stand the fire .
And those works of gold and silver .
The foundation though laid if we are true born children of God is one thing " be careful what you build on it" said Paul .
Do we seek to build works of the flesh or the Spirit? And which will last?
God did not need to rest .He neither slumbers or sleeps .
Jesus said " The Words I speak are not my own words but the Father who is IN Me He doeth the work"
Did He not also say " As the Father sent Me so send I you"? And in another place " greater works shall you do."
If the Father was in the Son and the Father did the work . Then is it not Christ in you ? Who then does the work ?
We rest from our work
But let it be understood that text can be easily misunderstood both as to intent and motive .
If you care to look again I simply presented the fact of the Lords problem with those who's understanding of the Sabbath was at such variance with the truth . I pointed out this alone shouid be taken as warning bells on the subject .
It still is by those who are obsessed with their own denominational interpretation of the subject .
You found fault with not putting in chapter and verse ? For one thing I rarely use obscure verses of scripture but well known and nigh on always " quote" the verse when I do . Given this websites excellent search engine for verses Is it not far better for any who are in doubt as to what the s riotures say to go and look it up for themselves as also it's context and any commentary?
Faith comes not just by hearing but by u derstanding thecWord of God . If a man's words cannot be heard let alone understood unless he gives his breath or life to his words how much the less will we hear and understand Gods Word without the Holy Spirit . You imply or said I expressed my own opinions ? Please show me where and in what way was it wrong what I said .
The s riotures " quoted" are very clear and as clear as those who demand one particular day ( theirs) yet they neither prove or show how those two are reconciled .
My warning therefore was both charitable and not without reason and gave enough "scripture" to give some light on the matter .
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In this matter as also many others expecialky concerning thec" last days" and the coming of the Lord and the Brudebif Christ .
I say again the greatest problem the Lord had all His life of ministry was that concerning the Sabbath . It shouid make rvery child of God be aware and on guard against unprofitable contentions with those who have similar ideas of the sabbath and who think their salvation depends on their observing one day over the rest .not working . There is no end to that one the Jews are proof of it.
If we are true born children of God then we are both by the Spirit and the Word of God ( " the water and the Spurit") Not the Word only but also the Spirit of truth .
For there is the body of truth which is the scriptures and the Spirit of truth the Holy Spurit .
"If we now live in the Spirit we dhouod also walk in the Spirit".
A new born has life but to live that life it needs to be continually filled with the breath of life.
So also a true born child of God . It is not though automatic .
For was it not to christians Paul was specifically speaking to of whom he said " ye are yet carnal"? ( Corinthians) .
And was it not also to christians who he prayed for in Ephesians that " the eyes of theur understanding may be opened? "
Now we know that their eyes of their understanding had been opened unto salvation for salvation comes by hearing and understanding thecWord of God . But in this case they were still blind to the power that was now " towards them"
To live in the Spirit is good but it takes time to learn to walk in the Spirit ." Fir how can two walk together unless they agree"?
GB
Nor addressed or reconciled how if taking the sabbath as it is written from God making the 7 th day a day of rest for He rested from all His works on the 7th day . With that verse ALSO written that " we are to rest from all our works as God did from His" Nor have you addressed Paul teaching about one esteeming one day and another every day ?
But simply quite a lot of verses at me not related . Or bring in some idea I'm trying to 'save" someone etc wgen only God can .What relevance is that to the matter in hand .
Or the fact that "the sabbath was but a foreshadow.."
I am not going to go on about it but simply once again warn of one denominations obsession with the matter in a manner that is not unlike the Pharisees the Lord faced and for the same reasons .
If one person esteems one day above all others and another esteems all alike then let both be fully orrsauded in their own minds says Paul . Anything else is but carnal thinking .
I responded to the original post seeking to help the poster not " save them" . The warning is substantive .
It is unprofitable to continue unless you adress points raised .
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Whenever any doctrine or teaching comes up for my consideration, I always go to the heart of the matter. What is the Sabbath Day? Well, it is the fourth Commandment given by God, only to His chosen people Israel ( Exodus 31:13-17). It was given for their complete rest from their busy lives of labor on the other six days. On the other side of the coin, the Ten Commandments, along with the many other commandments were not given to Gentiles. Those who contest this, usually fuse God's relationship to Israel & His Word specifically to Israel, with His Church (of believing Jews and Gentiles). But this has never happened and nowhere in the Word do we read that the Church has to come under those OT commandments, rather, the Church has been given the Holy Spirit, and we ought to obey Him in everything He reveals to us - and this goes beyond anything that the old Law could ever require.
Remember, we are no longer under the Law as the apostle writes in Romans 6:14,15. The Law could only reveal sin, but it gave no power to overcome it - it could only show Israel their sinfulness, thus the requirement of sacrifices to temporarily shield them from God's Wrath. But then Grace came - the Grace of God through His Son's Sacrifice & Gift of the Holy Spirit. Now, both believing Jew and Gentile were forgiven and covered completely & given the Mind of Christ & His Power to live above the stern requirements and penalties of the Law. Onto Page 2.
The Sabbath Day was given specifically as a day of rest. There was no core requirement that it should also be a worship day, though the Jewish priests conducted their business continually throughout the week. So even now, if any desire to still abide by the fourth Commandment, then to give that seventh day entirely to rest, recuperation, & spiritual activities would be in order. But to insist that those who are In Christ must worship only on that day, goes against NT teaching; even as you quoted Mark 2:27, where Jesus was reprimanded for 'working' (i.e. picking ears of corn to satisfy hunger) on the Sabbath. Yes, by Law, Jesus broke that Commandment, but Jesus was showing to those Pharisees that the Sabbath observance must not interfere with a necessity of life (in this case, hunger). Why? The Sabbath was given for man's benefit (for rest & rejuvenation) and not the other way around (i.e. for man to have to suffer in hunger, thereby negating the complete rest that the Sabbath Day was meant to give him). And of course, through His Sacrifice, Jesus altogether removed the commandments that kept man bound in his sin, nailing them to the Cross ( Colossians 2:9-17). And if we still adhere to the Law, the apostle states that "we have fallen from grace" ( Galatians 5:4), for we simply cannot be justified through the Law and Grace - it is one or the other and to expect justification by the Law will not work before God.
I realize that I have written much but I really hope you might read these verses given and wait on God's Spirit to help you understand and appropriate these Truths in your heart. It won't be easy because of past recollections, but I pray that the Holy Spirit would help you understand the great significance of Christ's death for us, justifying by faith and not by to the Law, and even changing those apostles who once strongly held onto Jewish Laws and traditions, to wholly embrace Christ & obedience to His Law through the Spirit. Blessings.
What He did was challenge the false interpretation and regulations of man's traditions .
He also pointed out that the Levi's continually 'broke the law ' by ministering in the temple on the Sabbath .
There is a righteousness that is of the Law and the righteousness that is of THE faith . He came to fulfil both He said at His baptism . The police break the law when they chase criminals breaking the speed limit . But are not guilty .
We cannot fulfill the law fir "no man is justified by the law " but we are counted righteous through Him . By faith .
But we also by faith uphold the Law . How? Because by faith we are " crucified with Christ" . The old man is put to death in Christ .and we are then " buried with Christ" in baptism by faith . You do not bury the living but the dead and again by faith we are raised together with Christ " who was raised " fir our justification".
Thus in Christ we "uphold the Law".
No man can crucify himself it's impossible .
How was the Lord crucified? Yes by the hands of wicked men . But primarily by the Word of God ,by the Will of God and by the Spirit of God . So likewise are we " crucified with Christ " .
We rest then not in our 'good' works but in Gods good work at Calvary .
IN Christ .in effect Seated with Him in heavenly places .
Caine sought to establish his own righteousness by his good works and thus denied Gods . And in seeking his own glory sought not Gods .
Abel by his offering confessed his sin the righteousness of God and showed his faith was in the promised "Lamb of God who would take away the sin of the world "
I fear many have similar mistaken views of the Sabbath also .
The Law given to Israel was "holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good" ( Romans 7:12) in every respect, and its very nature called for strict unswerving obedience or face dire consequences. In those instances (of Jesus & His disciples picking ears of corn on the Sabbath Day, or the man picking up sticks on the Sabbath, even this woman caught in adultery), all required the death penalty ( Exodus 31:14; Numbers 15:32-36; Leviticus 20:10). So, the Pharisees could rightly (according to the Law they were under) demand the death penalty for that woman; though one could argue whether they even had the authority to make such judgement as Israel's monarchies and authoritative judicial system had long ended, and these religious leaders were simply self-appointed (spiritual) leaders, post captivity.
When Jesus came on the scene and not only taught Truths that went against pharisaical teachings, He also presented Himself to them as the Lord of the Sabbath ( Mark 2:28). Of course, Jesus' Deity is clearly seen in that claim, but the point of His Words to them was that as Lord, He had both the rule and the last Word concerning the Law. The Law-giver Who took on human flesh, preparing to sacrifice His Life so that God's Grace for salvation could be imparted to all who call upon His Name, was in the throes of ushering a new Law that would clearly reflect that Grace - a Law of Love, Compassion, & Forgiveness. The Old Law couldn't do that: severe punishment for any departure from it was certain. Onto Page 2.
Jesus, now as Lord, stood in-between that Old Law that would soon pass away & the New Law imparted through His Blood and by His Spirit. Yes, Jesus broke that Sabbath Law, but as Lord of the Sabbath He had the authority to correctly interpret it and apply it, and even do away with it as would be the case, even as you gave the example of police breaking speed limits when chasing an erring driver and yet the police themselves are absolved of guilt. That doesn't make sense to us, but we accept it because the police are acting according to their Law & so have the authority to do so.
Jesus, the Word of God, as Law-Framer, Law-Giver, and Law-Changer is His Own Authority: maybe a Law breaker according to points of Law, but having full authority to interpret and apply it. For by His Coming when He did, that was the time of liberating transition between the Law that led to man's eternal curse and death, to a new life of salvation, blessing & eternal life by faith in the Spirit. Blessings.
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