I would like to share mt beliefs in regards to this topic.
(Not that it has any authority)
1st, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE OT AND NT MINISTRIES.
When it comes to God's mercy there is no difference. ( There was a mercy seat" as a solid gold covering placed on top of the Ark of the Covenant in the OT which is seen as a foreshadowing or type of Christ. )
The mercy seat is shown as a symbol of means of forgiveness following a law given that is known as the Administration of condemnation and Administration of Death.
2 Corinthians 3:7-9.
As for the penalty of sin and God's wrath which is to come.
The wrath to come was initiated or caused in the Garden of Eden.
There is an curse on ALL creation and an unrepentant sin nature on Man.
This nature loves darkness.
If you gave man a 1000 years in hell he'll still have that sin nature after the 1000 years was filled.
If you gave man peace on earth for a 1000 years without the devil influence and release the Devil when the 1000 years is filled Man will still display that rebellious nature.
You see a glimpse of this type of unrepentant rebellious demonic nature in Revelation, even while being tormented! Revelation 16:8-11.
Man is needing to be redeemed! Initially he doesn't know and want it.
However,
I believe there is the true light or/and restrainer (all the same being) that reveals and restrains evil and to recieve truth provided to all men.
This light is to reveal their depravity and to lead them out of darkness to Christ or openly reject him and be condemned with the world.
REFERENCES.
2 Thessalonians 2:6-7
John 1:8-10.
John 3:17-21
Man has an everlasting Spirit and it's either one that is forever rebellious and continuously influenced by Satan in this life and the after life or he is continuously influenced by the Holyspirit which brought him to Christ and abides in him.
For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. ( John 5:22-23).
God would without the intercession of His Son condemn us all to hell as we all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
The fear of God however is the beginning of understanding ( Prov. 9:10; Psalms etc). By the terror of God we persuade men ( 2 Cor. 5:11); but also the love of Christ constrains us ( 2 Cor. 5:14) just THREE verses later. So therefore we need both as with medicine what is toxic and unpleasant brings healing.
A healthy fear of the Lord for a believer should characterize their lives to shine as salt and light drawing men unto Himself. This is still the same God who we fear in regard to destruction of our souls; but as it involves those who have been saved and sealed with the Spirit it is an AWE for His presence and that always is accompanied by a love for His presence and commandments.
One mistake I have seen by those who wish to share the Gospel is to find some way to drum up fear through a dramatic description of hell and the sufferings in store for the unsaved individual. This can usually only result in a fear of the CONSEQUENCES of sin; which isn't any different than what Judas Iscariot felt for unjustly causing the death of what he only could see as an innocent man; not the Son of God who came to save the lost. The opposite error is presenting the Gospel as some formula which is supposed to produce an intended result. That result only occurs when the Holy Spirit takes hold of a man and remakes him from the inside out and thus causes genuine repentance as a desire in men's hearts whereupon action is taken.
Finally the type of presentation as to whether verses on love and mercy or warnings of God's severity are more emphasized depends on the recipient. Both ideas are vital.
Thanks for this well balanced post about witnessing to the unsaved and what is most needed in individual circumstances. We definitely should go forth in the fear of the Lord in such a way that we ask the Holy Spirit to help us present the gospel for the sake of the person we witness to not for our own pride or to score a "win" for Christ. Everyone who comes to believe the gospel does so because God has foreordained them as one of those elected to salvation before the creation of anything. So, we should keep this in mind and agree to submit to God in witnessing as He works out His purpose for the person we witness to, for our own sanctification, and for the very situation and circumstances that brough about the opportunity according to God's sovereign will and purpose.
I especially love the verse you quoted about honoring Jesus, the Son of God, in the same way as we honor the Father.
When people reject the clear teaching of Scripture about the Son existing from everlasting to everlasting as stated in Micah Micah and that He is God with us-Emmanuel, Mighty God, as stated in Isaiah who incarnated in human flesh and nature to be fully God and fully Man, these people dishonor the Father and the Son in their rejection of these doctrine.
As believers, we should be careful that we do not resist what the Holy Spirit has revealed in Scripture concerning Jesus' revelation of God as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in one unified being. We should take into consideration ALL of what Scriptures teach about these topics and not bring up only Scriptures that speak to His perfect humanity in order to negate the Scriptures that speak to His eternal deity and oneness with the Father and the Holy Spirit.
So, how should we present God to people? An angry God? The idea of an angry God may initially make people sin less but eventually one can not hang on such a God. People want someone to find help from. Someone to love them It is God's love that draws people to Him. The idea that God is a Father who like an earthy father wishes and does the best for His children. That is why I disagree presenting God as an angry God. In such a case fear will be created in one's heart. And fear draws people away from the person they fear. Let us think, who were going to Jesus at that time? People who needed to be healed, to get some help, to find an ascape from their sins. They needed someone to help them, whatever their problem was.
Yes we must tell them about the consequences of sinning, about God's Judgement, about eternity and hell. Jesus was always mentioning judgement. But the thing that will make the difference (if any) and create a hope in their heart is God's love for people. Otherwise people will always feel that they are chained in a condition they wish to escape from, like the prodigal son.
As a final concusion? Let the Spirit gives us words to talk to people's heart. He knows better what one needs to hear.
I agree! I believe to present God as an angry God is misrepresenting God.
I would present God as Holy!
Nahum 1:3 reads "The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked (kjv).
However, "the wicked" is in italics. Perhaps it should read "The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit.
That means no one gets off!
Sin has to be paid for and the wages of sin is death!
And all have sinned and come short of the glory of God; Romans 3:23.
Romans 6:23 reads "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
At this junction I would present God as a loving God pointing a lost soul to Romans 5:6-9 and " John 3:16-21" "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Romans 5:18 reads "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Adams sin has been imputed on to us. All human beings are counted as having sinned in Adam!
Jesus is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2:2.
Thanks bro Giannis for sharing what you did, especially about the time of fellowship & instruction you had with that group of young people. Clearly, your son's gf, like so many others, fully embrace religion but have failed to know & embrace the living God, His Mercy & Forgiveness, & of course, that vital relationship as our Father in Heaven. I pray your words of wisdom & instruction to those there will go deep into their hearts which the Holy Spirit, in His time, will bring to remembrance as they may witness the futility, hypocrisy, & disease that such religious exercises brings.
As I wrote briefly to another person on these pages concerning evangelism, what we share & how we do it depends on where that person is at with his life & eternity. For some, as when you shared with that young girl, she already understood God's Anger against sin, but unfortunately, her understanding was only of a distant, angry, vengeful God, and not about an intimate relationship with Him. So, your words to her would take up that knowledge she had & develop it to lead her to biblical Truths: Truths I'm sure, that would be quite foreign to her and hopefully go deep into her heart and mind. Onto Page 2.
And then again, to a person who has no knowledge of who God is, nor of his own sins & judgement by God for them, needs to know as an essential part of the Gospel message, that his sins, like our own, condemned us before an Holy God. As a drowning man will even 'grab onto straws', so a sinner understanding his position before God & in great spiritual agony, must cry out for Someone to save him. If a sinner could save himself, or assist God in it, then I would agree that the fear of such a God would be almost absent. But we can't save ourselves - we must run to such a God Who has both the power to condemn us into a Christ-less eternity or Who quickly forgives us & accept us through His Son. Such was my testimony: no one shared the Gospel with me - my dealings were only with God's Spirit, and He made it abundantly clear during that time of spiritual wrestling, that the fear of God had long departed from me, leading me to a sinful lifestyle that only promised His Anger & retribution. But there still remained hope - and that hope the Spirit infused in me was found only in Jesus.
Brother, the full & True Gospel can never omit God's Anger against sin & the sinner, yet His Love provides a way of escape for all who turn to Him. If we go light on God's Anger & major only on His Love & Forgiveness, I believe we do this glorious Gospel great disservice & we risk seeing believers focussed on just the joyous part of salvation & eternity, and not on the seriousness of our state (even as those believers who toy with sin) before God. Blessings.
I agree that presenting God in His anger to unbelievers will most likely cause them to bristle up against turning to Him. We all need to know that we are sinners and separated from God because He is perfectly holy and good. And that He will judge sinners with punishment unless they receive God's remedy for salvation from this judgment. Then present the gospel as God's generous, merciful, and grace-filled decreed way for any person to receive salvation and eternal life in Jesus. They need to knew who Jesus is and why He is the only Savior and what He did to save those who believe in Him.
Giannis, I am glad that you shared this post to explain why you first posed your query. I took your first post on this topic as a discussion on whether or not God is an angry God. Scripture surely describes Him as one who is always angry at sin. But His divine Being is multifaceted when it comes to what He has revealed about Himself. He is equally loving, just, holy, compassionate, powerful, etc.
I think it is helpful for every believer to do a serious study on how God has revealed His divinity in Scripture and in history. Yet, when it comes to witnessing to unbelievers, it does matter if such a person is open to learn about salvation from their sin and judgment or if they are hostile towards God and not softened to be willing to consider that they need salvation and reconciliation to God who made them and is sovereign over all of their ways.
I appreciate our conversations on this topic and now with this post of yours, I am glad that you were able to share about our Savior with the young people you spoke with.
The reason I started this thread was on how do we see and eventually present God to unbelievers. Do we see and present Him as an angry God who is ready to condemn the sinner or as a God of love who wants all (but all) people to be saved?
Yesterday it was the first time I talked to my son's girlfriend about Jesus. There were 3 other young people in my house and my wife and we were having a nice christian fellowship. Some time my son and his girlfriend appeared. After some time my son went to his room and the girl remained with us and started asking questions about why we have switched from the Orthodox church to another church and more questions about Mary Jesus' mother and the saints. I knew she is a person that she is interested in such things, like her family does. But although as a family they knew things about God and attend their church often, they didn't know God Himself. Their life is like any other person's in this ungodly world.
I remembered that when someone talked to me about Jesus, he talked to me about God's love, about His love which was shown by sacrificing Himself on the cross. A God who is near us and not hidden up there in the deep space dealing with His own things. Not a God who is far from people and their problems. A God who is very close to people watching our lives and ready to help, ready to heal. And personally me I went to God to find a solution for some big problems I was having at the time. I needed someone to help me, not someone to punish me. And this side of God I showed to that girl and she was a bit confused in the begining. Because she knew another God, a distant God who is ready to punish people for their sins, a God who always tries to put limits to people's freedom and the pleasures of this life. A God who she respects but on the other hand fears. And she didn't know that God is not just a philosophical idea but a real person whom one feels ans sees things from, proving that He really exists.
I don't believe that Man is born perfect and has to wait on his actions to determine his fate.
The world is already separated from God and Man is a part of the world and is Born separated from God.
Man comes into the world in need of a rebirth. (Born from above) One that the first Adam could not provide, (a sinless nature!)
Adam was made an Earthly vessel and could never give life and was never meant to.
The second Adam was is a life giving Spirit and is not a part of this world! HE WAS SENT INTO IT.
"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved." John 3:17.
Man in his sinful condition and in his present state can not conceive how bad he is.
I believe the same way that the children of God is identified/baptized IN Christ is the way the unsaved is identified/baptized in Satan and suffers the same fate as Satan.
Satan is their father.
Everlasting punishment is given to an Everlasting unrepentant rebellious heart
Thank you bro S. Spencer for that great summary of man's sinful & hopeless condition before God - and even till now the call is clear and pressing: "behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation." ( 2 Corinthians 6:2). The door to joyous and free salvation remains open to all, but the day comes when that opportunity will be removed, and the Wrath of God will prevail upon the Earth "against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness".
And I liked your statement: "I believe the same way that the children of God is identified/baptized IN Christ is the way the unsaved is identified/baptized in Satan and suffers the same fate as Satan." At least we know & are confident in our baptism and identification IN Christ - the unsaved don't even realize their union to the god whom they serve, through disobedience & rejection of the Truth. May their hearts be opened to the Gospel ere it's too late. Blessings.
There is a lot going on in the world that should make one tremble and present the Gospel or be a part of reaching out to the lost starting with the immediate family and Household!
I believe God prepared a way for salvation out of unmatched love to the whole world!
God sent us a redeemer to redeem what was lost! Every being that proceeded from Adam!
The heavens declare the glory of God!
Nature and the universe itself serve as a testament to God's power, beauty, and majesty so there is no excuse to deny a true and living God.
John 1:7 reads "The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, THAT ALL THROUGH HIM MIGHT BELIEVE.
(Note that I left out "men" being that it is in italics)
Verse 9 reads, "That was the true Light, which lighteth EVERY MAN THAT COMETH INTO THE WORLD..
The Holy Spirit is at work in the sinner's heart. It is the Spirit's job to convict.
The most basic sin of which the world is guilty is unbelief.
The convicting power of the Holy Spirit is at work in the world to bring one to Christ.
Christ has been preached one way or another since Adam and Eve!
Cain showed unbelief in his offering while Abel offered by faith!
So Cain and Abel was instructed but only Abel believed and demonstrated faith. He believed and he RECEIVED!
John 1:11-12 reads "He came unto his own, and his own RECEIVED HIM NOT.
BUT "AS MANY" AS RECEIVED HIM, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, EVEN TO THEM THAT BELIEVE ON HIS NAME:
You have to believe to recieve!
Once a person responds to the Spirit's conviction and turns to faith in Christ, the other sins he practiced will be taken care of. It is the sin of unbelief, "a refusal to trust in Jesus" that is primary.
Thank you brother for those very sound words & thoughts they generated in me. Indeed, Jesus was that Light Who came into the world, and that Light is available to all born into the world. But it takes just a spark from the Holy Spirit Who brings that Light, causing one to stop in his tracks, to think & to question. And that spark can be very unsettling, as it causes doubt, fear & wonder to what one has been taught or convinced to believe. But it is necessary, if the mind of the sinner is to be turned from human logic & the deception/blindness from the great deceiver, to serious consideration of what is indeed true & one's utter hopelessness while living in a state of unresolved sin & filthiness of the flesh. And that is where Romans 10:11-18 comes in.
"For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? AND HOW SHALL THEY HEAR WITHOUT A PREACHER? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world."
What a privilege we have been given, to share such "glad tidings of good things", that gives material evidence (i.e. the Gospel) to the spark that once came to an enquiring soul, thus creating Faith in him. "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Proclaim the Gospel - the Spirit will see to the rest. GBU.
I would like to share mt beliefs in regards to this topic.
(Not that it has any authority)
1st, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE OT AND NT MINISTRIES.
When it comes to God's mercy there is no difference. ( There was a mercy seat" as a solid gold covering placed on top of the Ark of the Covenant in the OT which is seen as a foreshadowing or type of Christ. )
The mercy seat is shown as a symbol of means of forgiveness following a law given that is known as the Administration of condemnation and Administration of Death.
2 Corinthians 3:7-9.
As for the penalty of sin and God's wrath which is to come.
The wrath to come was initiated or caused in the Garden of Eden.
There is an curse on ALL creation and an unrepentant sin nature on Man.
This nature loves darkness.
If you gave man a 1000 years in hell he'll still have that sin nature after the 1000 years was filled.
If you gave man peace on earth for a 1000 years without the devil influence and release the Devil when the 1000 years is filled Man will still display that rebellious nature.
You see a glimpse of this type of unrepentant rebellious demonic nature in Revelation, even while being tormented! Revelation 16:8-11.
Man is needing to be redeemed! Initially he doesn't know and want it.
However,
I believe there is the true light or/and restrainer (all the same being) that reveals and restrains evil and to recieve truth provided to all men.
This light is to reveal their depravity and to lead them out of darkness to Christ or openly reject him and be condemned with the world.
REFERENCES.
2 Thessalonians 2:6-7
John 1:8-10.
John 3:17-21
Man has an everlasting Spirit and it's either one that is forever rebellious and continuously influenced by Satan in this life and the after life or he is continuously influenced by the Holyspirit which brought him to Christ and abides in him.
Blessings.
God would without the intercession of His Son condemn us all to hell as we all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
The fear of God however is the beginning of understanding ( Prov. 9:10; Psalms etc). By the terror of God we persuade men ( 2 Cor. 5:11); but also the love of Christ constrains us ( 2 Cor. 5:14) just THREE verses later. So therefore we need both as with medicine what is toxic and unpleasant brings healing.
A healthy fear of the Lord for a believer should characterize their lives to shine as salt and light drawing men unto Himself. This is still the same God who we fear in regard to destruction of our souls; but as it involves those who have been saved and sealed with the Spirit it is an AWE for His presence and that always is accompanied by a love for His presence and commandments.
One mistake I have seen by those who wish to share the Gospel is to find some way to drum up fear through a dramatic description of hell and the sufferings in store for the unsaved individual. This can usually only result in a fear of the CONSEQUENCES of sin; which isn't any different than what Judas Iscariot felt for unjustly causing the death of what he only could see as an innocent man; not the Son of God who came to save the lost. The opposite error is presenting the Gospel as some formula which is supposed to produce an intended result. That result only occurs when the Holy Spirit takes hold of a man and remakes him from the inside out and thus causes genuine repentance as a desire in men's hearts whereupon action is taken.
Finally the type of presentation as to whether verses on love and mercy or warnings of God's severity are more emphasized depends on the recipient. Both ideas are vital.
Thanks for this well balanced post about witnessing to the unsaved and what is most needed in individual circumstances. We definitely should go forth in the fear of the Lord in such a way that we ask the Holy Spirit to help us present the gospel for the sake of the person we witness to not for our own pride or to score a "win" for Christ. Everyone who comes to believe the gospel does so because God has foreordained them as one of those elected to salvation before the creation of anything. So, we should keep this in mind and agree to submit to God in witnessing as He works out His purpose for the person we witness to, for our own sanctification, and for the very situation and circumstances that brough about the opportunity according to God's sovereign will and purpose.
I especially love the verse you quoted about honoring Jesus, the Son of God, in the same way as we honor the Father.
When people reject the clear teaching of Scripture about the Son existing from everlasting to everlasting as stated in Micah Micah and that He is God with us-Emmanuel, Mighty God, as stated in Isaiah who incarnated in human flesh and nature to be fully God and fully Man, these people dishonor the Father and the Son in their rejection of these doctrine.
As believers, we should be careful that we do not resist what the Holy Spirit has revealed in Scripture concerning Jesus' revelation of God as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in one unified being. We should take into consideration ALL of what Scriptures teach about these topics and not bring up only Scriptures that speak to His perfect humanity in order to negate the Scriptures that speak to His eternal deity and oneness with the Father and the Holy Spirit.
I believe Hebrews 10:22-31 sums up much of what you stated when referring to a believer.
Blessings
So, how should we present God to people? An angry God? The idea of an angry God may initially make people sin less but eventually one can not hang on such a God. People want someone to find help from. Someone to love them It is God's love that draws people to Him. The idea that God is a Father who like an earthy father wishes and does the best for His children. That is why I disagree presenting God as an angry God. In such a case fear will be created in one's heart. And fear draws people away from the person they fear. Let us think, who were going to Jesus at that time? People who needed to be healed, to get some help, to find an ascape from their sins. They needed someone to help them, whatever their problem was.
Yes we must tell them about the consequences of sinning, about God's Judgement, about eternity and hell. Jesus was always mentioning judgement. But the thing that will make the difference (if any) and create a hope in their heart is God's love for people. Otherwise people will always feel that they are chained in a condition they wish to escape from, like the prodigal son.
As a final concusion? Let the Spirit gives us words to talk to people's heart. He knows better what one needs to hear.
Blessings.
I agree! I believe to present God as an angry God is misrepresenting God.
I would present God as Holy!
Nahum 1:3 reads "The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked (kjv).
However, "the wicked" is in italics. Perhaps it should read "The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit.
That means no one gets off!
Sin has to be paid for and the wages of sin is death!
And all have sinned and come short of the glory of God; Romans 3:23.
Romans 6:23 reads "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
At this junction I would present God as a loving God pointing a lost soul to Romans 5:6-9 and " John 3:16-21" "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Romans 5:18 reads "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Adams sin has been imputed on to us. All human beings are counted as having sinned in Adam!
Jesus is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2:2.
God is Holy, Just and Love.
God bless.
Thanks bro Giannis for sharing what you did, especially about the time of fellowship & instruction you had with that group of young people. Clearly, your son's gf, like so many others, fully embrace religion but have failed to know & embrace the living God, His Mercy & Forgiveness, & of course, that vital relationship as our Father in Heaven. I pray your words of wisdom & instruction to those there will go deep into their hearts which the Holy Spirit, in His time, will bring to remembrance as they may witness the futility, hypocrisy, & disease that such religious exercises brings.
As I wrote briefly to another person on these pages concerning evangelism, what we share & how we do it depends on where that person is at with his life & eternity. For some, as when you shared with that young girl, she already understood God's Anger against sin, but unfortunately, her understanding was only of a distant, angry, vengeful God, and not about an intimate relationship with Him. So, your words to her would take up that knowledge she had & develop it to lead her to biblical Truths: Truths I'm sure, that would be quite foreign to her and hopefully go deep into her heart and mind. Onto Page 2.
And then again, to a person who has no knowledge of who God is, nor of his own sins & judgement by God for them, needs to know as an essential part of the Gospel message, that his sins, like our own, condemned us before an Holy God. As a drowning man will even 'grab onto straws', so a sinner understanding his position before God & in great spiritual agony, must cry out for Someone to save him. If a sinner could save himself, or assist God in it, then I would agree that the fear of such a God would be almost absent. But we can't save ourselves - we must run to such a God Who has both the power to condemn us into a Christ-less eternity or Who quickly forgives us & accept us through His Son. Such was my testimony: no one shared the Gospel with me - my dealings were only with God's Spirit, and He made it abundantly clear during that time of spiritual wrestling, that the fear of God had long departed from me, leading me to a sinful lifestyle that only promised His Anger & retribution. But there still remained hope - and that hope the Spirit infused in me was found only in Jesus.
Brother, the full & True Gospel can never omit God's Anger against sin & the sinner, yet His Love provides a way of escape for all who turn to Him. If we go light on God's Anger & major only on His Love & Forgiveness, I believe we do this glorious Gospel great disservice & we risk seeing believers focussed on just the joyous part of salvation & eternity, and not on the seriousness of our state (even as those believers who toy with sin) before God. Blessings.
I agree that presenting God in His anger to unbelievers will most likely cause them to bristle up against turning to Him. We all need to know that we are sinners and separated from God because He is perfectly holy and good. And that He will judge sinners with punishment unless they receive God's remedy for salvation from this judgment. Then present the gospel as God's generous, merciful, and grace-filled decreed way for any person to receive salvation and eternal life in Jesus. They need to knew who Jesus is and why He is the only Savior and what He did to save those who believe in Him.
Giannis, I am glad that you shared this post to explain why you first posed your query. I took your first post on this topic as a discussion on whether or not God is an angry God. Scripture surely describes Him as one who is always angry at sin. But His divine Being is multifaceted when it comes to what He has revealed about Himself. He is equally loving, just, holy, compassionate, powerful, etc.
I think it is helpful for every believer to do a serious study on how God has revealed His divinity in Scripture and in history. Yet, when it comes to witnessing to unbelievers, it does matter if such a person is open to learn about salvation from their sin and judgment or if they are hostile towards God and not softened to be willing to consider that they need salvation and reconciliation to God who made them and is sovereign over all of their ways.
I appreciate our conversations on this topic and now with this post of yours, I am glad that you were able to share about our Savior with the young people you spoke with.
The reason I started this thread was on how do we see and eventually present God to unbelievers. Do we see and present Him as an angry God who is ready to condemn the sinner or as a God of love who wants all (but all) people to be saved?
Yesterday it was the first time I talked to my son's girlfriend about Jesus. There were 3 other young people in my house and my wife and we were having a nice christian fellowship. Some time my son and his girlfriend appeared. After some time my son went to his room and the girl remained with us and started asking questions about why we have switched from the Orthodox church to another church and more questions about Mary Jesus' mother and the saints. I knew she is a person that she is interested in such things, like her family does. But although as a family they knew things about God and attend their church often, they didn't know God Himself. Their life is like any other person's in this ungodly world.
I remembered that when someone talked to me about Jesus, he talked to me about God's love, about His love which was shown by sacrificing Himself on the cross. A God who is near us and not hidden up there in the deep space dealing with His own things. Not a God who is far from people and their problems. A God who is very close to people watching our lives and ready to help, ready to heal. And personally me I went to God to find a solution for some big problems I was having at the time. I needed someone to help me, not someone to punish me. And this side of God I showed to that girl and she was a bit confused in the begining. Because she knew another God, a distant God who is ready to punish people for their sins, a God who always tries to put limits to people's freedom and the pleasures of this life. A God who she respects but on the other hand fears. And she didn't know that God is not just a philosophical idea but a real person whom one feels ans sees things from, proving that He really exists.
Sorry but I have not read your posts yet. I will leave it for tomorow brother. It is getting too late here . Blessings.
More on my previous reply.
I don't believe that Man is born perfect and has to wait on his actions to determine his fate.
The world is already separated from God and Man is a part of the world and is Born separated from God.
Man comes into the world in need of a rebirth. (Born from above) One that the first Adam could not provide, (a sinless nature!)
Adam was made an Earthly vessel and could never give life and was never meant to.
The second Adam was is a life giving Spirit and is not a part of this world! HE WAS SENT INTO IT.
"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved." John 3:17.
Man in his sinful condition and in his present state can not conceive how bad he is.
I believe the same way that the children of God is identified/baptized IN Christ is the way the unsaved is identified/baptized in Satan and suffers the same fate as Satan.
Satan is their father.
Everlasting punishment is given to an Everlasting unrepentant rebellious heart
Blessings
And I liked your statement: "I believe the same way that the children of God is identified/baptized IN Christ is the way the unsaved is identified/baptized in Satan and suffers the same fate as Satan." At least we know & are confident in our baptism and identification IN Christ - the unsaved don't even realize their union to the god whom they serve, through disobedience & rejection of the Truth. May their hearts be opened to the Gospel ere it's too late. Blessings.
There is a lot going on in the world that should make one tremble and present the Gospel or be a part of reaching out to the lost starting with the immediate family and Household!
I believe God prepared a way for salvation out of unmatched love to the whole world!
God sent us a redeemer to redeem what was lost! Every being that proceeded from Adam!
The heavens declare the glory of God!
Nature and the universe itself serve as a testament to God's power, beauty, and majesty so there is no excuse to deny a true and living God.
John 1:7 reads "The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, THAT ALL THROUGH HIM MIGHT BELIEVE.
(Note that I left out "men" being that it is in italics)
Verse 9 reads, "That was the true Light, which lighteth EVERY MAN THAT COMETH INTO THE WORLD..
The Holy Spirit is at work in the sinner's heart. It is the Spirit's job to convict.
The most basic sin of which the world is guilty is unbelief.
The convicting power of the Holy Spirit is at work in the world to bring one to Christ.
Christ has been preached one way or another since Adam and Eve!
Cain showed unbelief in his offering while Abel offered by faith!
So Cain and Abel was instructed but only Abel believed and demonstrated faith. He believed and he RECEIVED!
John 1:11-12 reads "He came unto his own, and his own RECEIVED HIM NOT.
BUT "AS MANY" AS RECEIVED HIM, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, EVEN TO THEM THAT BELIEVE ON HIS NAME:
You have to believe to recieve!
Once a person responds to the Spirit's conviction and turns to faith in Christ, the other sins he practiced will be taken care of. It is the sin of unbelief, "a refusal to trust in Jesus" that is primary.
Blessings
"For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? AND HOW SHALL THEY HEAR WITHOUT A PREACHER? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world."
What a privilege we have been given, to share such "glad tidings of good things", that gives material evidence (i.e. the Gospel) to the spark that once came to an enquiring soul, thus creating Faith in him. "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Proclaim the Gospel - the Spirit will see to the rest. GBU.
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