Discuss Revelation 14 Page 3

Here are several scriptures I found about death & after death : James 2:26, Ecclesiasticus 38:23, Ecclesiasticus 22:11, 2 Maccabees 7:36, 2 Maccabees 12:44, Ecclesiasticus 10:11, Ecclesiasticus 17:28, Baruch, 2:17, Psalms 88:10, Psalms 115:11, Ecclesiastes 9:5,

after death,: Matthew 17:1-3, Luke 7:12-16, Luke 8:49-56, John 11:21-45, Matthew 27:50-54, Luke 16:22-31, John 21:14, Acts 3:15, Acts 4:10, Mark 12:25,26,27, Luke 24:46, John 5:12, John 5:25, 1 Peter 1:3, 1 Peter 2:24, 1 Peter 4:5, Revelation 1:5, Revelation 1:18, Revelation 14:9-20, 1 Corinthians 15:20,21, 2 Timothy 4:1, 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 1 Thessalonians 1:10, Matthew 25:31-46, Romans 14:9, Matthew 22:32, Isaiah 26:19,

Hebrews 11:35, Revelation 20, 2 Esdras 2:16, Hebrews 6:2, Hebrews 9:14, Hebrews 11:4, Hebrews 13:20, Revelation 11:18,

Hopefully these are helpful.

The Vaccine is the Mark, it alters you. so that you are no longer what God Made you, but something different, Children cannot worship the beast knowingly, but they are satan's target because, they will be altered, the vaccine does not prevent Co-Vid. it only alters your DNA on a very small level, something else is in the works you can believe it, it kills unborn children worse than an abortion ever could. Plus, it is experimental so we don't know what will become of those who take it long term,

We are saved by faith, because of the shed blood of Jesus. However, Jesus told us that God's law will stand till heaven and earth pass. The law in Col 2 is the handwritten Moses' law not the !0 Commandments, finger-written by God.

If we sin, we need to repent. What is sin? 1 John 3vs 4 ' sin is the transgression of the law.' So, clearly, Jesus expects us to obey the law. It is written in our hearts but still can be over-ruled by us. Besides, what exactly does 'written in our hearts 'mean? Let us not be confused with trying to convert old Greek understandings exactly into modern English.We still have freewill and are not automatons obeying the Lord because of His presence within us. How can there be any disagreement between the written law and the law in our hearts? Jesus Christ is the same 'yesterday, today and forever' and Hebrews 13:8 'I am the Lord, I change not."( Malachi 3:6). What does being saved mean? To verbally accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour without complete submission to Him as Lord is worthless-- Rev 3:16.

We can lose our salvation. see, eg. Matt 24:13-'but he that shall endure to the end shall be saved' and Rev 3:11.

This issue is really important and often confusing. We are saved so we won't sin and will develop characters fit for heaven. God does not ever want any more disobedience. We must understand that His ways are perfect and we must obey.

Are you ready for His return? Let's look at the characteristics of his faithful followers at that time. Revelation 14:12-

'They keep the COMMANDMENTS OF GOD AND THE FAITH OF JESUS.' Note further Rev 22:14-

'Blessed are they that DO HIS COMMANDMENTS, that they may have RIGHT to the tree of life and may enter into the city.'

Note that it says HIS commandments, not somebody else's. Jesus does not separate Himself from His law.

'I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. The Bible also tells us in Psalm 119 vs 142 'Thy law is Truth.'

1 John 2:4- we are liars if not keeping commandments.

I'm sorry for your loss of friends during this difficult time. I'm sure it's even more troubling for you because of that.

I do not believe it to be the 'time" nor 'mark' However I Believe we are to be wise. Psalms 2:10,Teaching our children. Deuteronomy 11:19.The scripture does say 'hand or forehead" Revelations 13:11-18, please read around scripture for best context. Unless translation could mean arm, it's not clearly "the mark of the beast". I think the reason many are alarmed about this is

1st because of ingredient in vaccination, Psalms 106:29, Psalms 36-39

2nd whistle blowers coming forth with evidence of ungodly acts in testing, ingredient & side-affects

3rd the division it's caused & causing in Church & society

4th The Forcefulness of it all, losing ability to work, travel in some cases

5th The targeting of the T-cells, and cells that give space for communication with GOD, discovered by scientific study, (Reported 2009). Even having immediate side-affects

6th possibly most troubling for some: 1st P. C. developer bought pharmaceutical & Biotechnology ''vaccination' developer. Then filed for patent : WO/2020/060606 for: Cryptocurrency using body activity.

Please don't panic. 1 John 4:18,

Mark 13:22, Mark 13:5-37, several of those have yet to happen. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-13, could the great falling away be those who put all faith in rapture? Revelations 6:8-11, John 17:1-20, holdfast during trial Matthew 24:13, Matthew 24:4-51,

What is worship? Is it adoration, admiration, time given to, consuming, looking into intently, loving? Some feared computers were "the beast" the image of the beast? Cell phones or 'computer chips" The other day I wondered what it looks like to GOD seeing so many faces looking into devices, not up to HIM. Let us Worship only GOD ALMIGHTY, creator of Heaven & Earth.

Hopefully this is helpful in your research of Truth. I will pray for you also & sad for your loss & heaviness for loved ones being deceived. Peace to you

Hi Lise I'm amazed at how many christians or believers are getting caught up in the vaccine shot

being part of the beast or mark of the beast when Gods Word says Clearly we won't be here! We may

see things building up to that point in Gods time table, but we will not be present when the son of

perdition cuts loose so to speak. That term son of perdition literally means offspring of loss or destruction.

Who in the Bible Steals ,Kills and Destroys, now you know who this guys Father is going to be and where

he's getting his power from. But again we won't be here, but those left behind will be taken in by the so

called false signs miracles and wonders he will perform. Stick with God Word.

Lise Carmen Verdon,

I would like to add another amen on top of brother Spencer's reply to the answer Andrew gave. A true believer would never receive the mark. In order to receive the mark, a person must first bow down and worship the image of the beast (Revelation Chapter 13). That is a prerequisite before a person can receive this mark. You cannot just walk up and receive the mark without first worshipping the beast. So that would eliminate the vaccine being the mark of the beast.

Lise

[Why does people believe that you have to take the chip in your hand to be the mark of the beast' as opposed the vaccine? I believe many of my christian friends have been decieved, but on the other hand it seems many christians believes the mark of the beast will happen once we know who the Antichrist is and we as christians we will not see this happening as we will be rapture before this.] The word of God reads in Revelation 13: 16 to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:" This vaccine has a chip in it that I believe will flow through your body until it reaches a small blood vein where the chip will be stuck the smallest blood vein in the body is in the right hand and the forehead.

Many people are being deceived about the vaccine even after they get the vaccine they can still get the virus. Biden is making camps for the people that refuse to take the vaccine. I believe the antichrist will appear after the beast which is a computer "this is a one world order". The church will see some of the one world order before it is taken out of this world. This is just the beginning of the beast more is yet to come

God Bless

Stay prayed up and ready to go up

Cowboy

Sister Lise, may God grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

The words of God are WRITTEN to his church, we individually are the church.

Now if the CHURCH is not going to be here when the beast and anti-christ are here, why would God have need of putting that in his word.

Revelation says which is, which was, and which is to come.

And no man could buy or sell, save he had the mark of the beast. Has not man been buying and selling since the world begin, man IS buying and selling, WAS buying and selling and SHALL BE buying and selling.

From the beginning God made vessel of honour, that God CHOSE, to fulfill his PURPOSE, but he also made vessels of dishonour, that he CHOSE, to fulfill his PURPOSE.

Abel was Chosen to be a vessel of honour, Cain was Chosen to be a vessel of dishonour.

Genesis 4:15...and set a MARK upon Cain (a beast, a vessel of dishonour)....

A BEAST has no KNOWLEDGE of GOD, we all start as THE BEAST.

Proverbs 9:1-2 WISDOM ....hath killed her BEAST.....

ANTI means against, opposed or not in agreement with: we all start out as ANTI christ.

Proverbs 16:6 By truth and mercy iniquity is purged (destroyed), and by the fear of the Lord men depart from evil.

By studying God's Word THE BEAST and THE ANTI CHRIST (no knowledge and wisdom of God within you) is destroyed and replaced by LIFE and TRUTH ( Colossians 1:27), being BORN AGAIN by the word of God. ( 1 Peter 1:23).

God Bless You.

I believe in Jesus Christ our Savior I was saved 4 years ago. I have Christian's friends that took the vaccine, I myself, the day I heard about the vaccine was coming, I decided to read more about it, participated a Summit conference (7 days) and I knew this was very wrong, because the vaccine would changed our DNA for life. As a believer in Jesus Christ, he created us as His image and our DNA is precious because it is what God gave us to protect us from disease. We have been created to His image, but we were born in the flesh as sinners and once you a reborn again, then God seals you as His child and we are known as not sinners anymore but saints. There has been so many contreversy about 'the mark' of the beast and I always believe the vaccine was the 'mark of the beast' and lately in many countries and in Canada we are seeing places where they do not allow people to buy or sell because they refused to take the vaccine. I myself, I am very sadden because I do have christian friends that took the vaccine and some of them have died. My question is this? Why does people believe that you have to take the chip in your hand to be the mark of the beast' as opposed the vaccine? I believe many of my christian friends have been decieved, but on the other hand it seems many christians believes the mark of the beast will happen once we know who the Antichrist is and we as christians we will not see this happening as we will be rapture before this. This is my question

It is taking a lifetime for God that direct me too understanding His Word. The Church Age is coming to an end.. The 144k are Jewish make virgins, keep alive supernaturally by God in the wilderness, after the A/C makes his full attack on the nation of Israel, during the middle of the Great Tribulation. They will know that Jesus is the Messiah and they will be sent all over the world to save any who will hear and believe. They will be martyred by decapitation, as will any who will not accept the evil one as god. Their souls will be under the alter til Jesus comes with His bride to the earth. Now, the most important thing to know... you can do nothing to save yourself and without the blood of Christ applied to your heart, no one can be saved. Rest in Him.. He did it all... the Word of His patience... believe and obey... that is all... What a mighty God to have made such a plan/gift to Save us!!!

Sister GiGi, they are complete opposites of the doctrines of man. Does the doctrines of the brick and mortar church teach the saints are going to judge the world. No, they teach when you die you either go to heaven or to hell. You, yourself in a new location. You are not going to be yourself, but a new creation in Christ Jesus. Man does not want to lose his own identity ( Matthew 16:25) and become the IMAGE of CHRIST. No greater love has a man than to die for his brother, Christ died for you, you have to die for Christ. This the first death ( Revelation 14:13).

John 17:21-24

Hi Gina,

I thought that someone would have responded to your post by now. Sorry, the Bible calls the seventh day the Sabbath. Genesis 2:3.

The believers in the Old Testament kept the 7th day Sabbath beginning what we call Friday at sundown to Saturday at sundown. In the beginning there were not the current names for the days of the week. So I am not sure we can really know exactly which was the seventh day in the earliest times. At one point, someone created a calendar, and determined what day was the seventh day according to the calendar. The Israelites were commanded by the Law of Moses (10 commandments) to set the Sabbath aside from working. So, they had to have some calendar to go by for determining the days of the week.

As Christians, we are urged to keep every day as a Sabbath, not to rest from work everyday, but to live it for God. But it is fine for Christians to keep the seventh day as a Sabbath, or Sunday, or any other day of the week as a day of rest and worship. We have such freedom to obey the commandment in its elevated way that Jesus taught His disciples and then they passed it on to their congregations. ( Colossians 2:16)

I Hope this helps you. Looking forward to your reply.

English Sacha. Is that what you have gleaned from what I addressed to Earl? You've made some assumptions that clearly are emotive rather than what I had written or is revealed in the Bible. We're discussing the fact of God's Judgement to all who are not saved through Jesus Christ.

How God decides who are worthy of judgement (whether some primitive soul or those with mental shortcomings, etc), is God's matter, not mine nor yours. If you believe this God of Love is incapable of judging sinners in such a manner, then you would need to consider the operation of God throughout Scriptures - i.e. He is indeed a God of Love but also a God of Justice. We can often be conditioned by the world & what we perceive to be right, to think of such a justice system as normal, as true. Whereas God's Justice always demands the correct penalty - and unfortunately, simply losing one's life in death (which happens to us all) is just one part of that justice. The wages of sin might indeed be death, but the wages for the rejection of God & His offer of salvation are far greater ( Daniel 12:1,2; Matthew 18:7-9; Matthew 25:31-46; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9; Jude 1:6,7; Revelation 14:9-11; Revelation 20:10-15). And sister GiGi has also given a very apt response to you.

Is Saturday the Sabbath Day?

Amen Brother Jesse!

Hi Rick,

Yes indeed. There's a good message you are sharing here. I think Jonah could also be included in this. God says you're going to Ninevah and Jonah says nope, I'm going the other way. Jonah was exercising his free-will. But isn't it amazing for the believer in Christ that every time we try and do things "our way," they don't quite seem to work out as planned? I like your paraphrase using the word "dude."

Hi Brother Jesse,

Thank you for clarifying your beliefs on Salvation.

Yes, I too believe we are in agreement, that the entire salvation process, in finality, is dependent on God forgiving us!

Also, as you say, adoption of "the Christ centered message" remains our only roadmap to victory!

God Bless.

God Bless.

Hi Jesse Mans mental accent to the truth of walking by the spirit is mans five senses mind saying I'll do it my way, but we will know them by there spiritual fruit. When naamen in the old testament Got delivered of leprosy if he would have dipped in Jordan 6 times no deal the man of God said seven. Another example when jesus Christ told Peter to let down your nets for a drought Peter said look dude I'm a fisherman you preach but to appease you I'll let down a net, the grace is they still got the fish.

Brother Dan, Amen!

As you say, salvation should never be taken likely. I guess it would have been better for me to say "man-made" formula instead of just formula. Yes, the bible clearly teaches us what is required for salvation. I believe I have a pretty thorough understanding of the entire salvation process. There isn't anything you just said that I would disagree with. Would you agree with me if I said that the entire salvation process is all of God, not man?

The "special formula" that I speak of, and please accept my apology for not wording it differently, but I've heard so many different answers to the question of how does one obtain salvation. I'm speaking of man-made formulas. I'm sure you've heard a few of those over the years?

Man comes up with so many different ways on how to be saved that are not biblically correct. And these formulas are all human formulas that have nothing to do with the Spirit of God doing the work. As long as the gospel message of salvation is Christ centered, and not man centered, I think one would do well in sharing that message.

If I'm asked what is required for salvation, I don't feel I would be in the wrong by telling that person that they need to receive Christ. They need to be born of His Spirit.



Thanks for the blessing. You also have a blessed day in Christ Jesus!

Thank you for the kind and understanding words.

I agree with you in that we can be pressured into "appeasing" the wishes of others that love us and want us to be saved.

We may differ a little in our thoughts in how a call to Christ for salvation yields results. I made a request for Christ for His saving grace at the age of 12, no idea what I was asking Him to provide. No guidance was given by the church, just congratulations on being saved.

I am so thankful God have me life to learn just what receiving His salvation involved and what my heart had to feel for this salvation to actually affect me and my life.

My second appeal to Christ that I receive His salvation had an immediate effect on my internal being. No waiting.

Christ will not go where He is not invited with heartfelt sincerity and desire for Him to enter. Once invited with a pleading spirit He will enter your being and provide the gift of the Spirit.

The key is our desire being expressed with sincerity. To me, it seems we both lacked sincerity on our first asking of Christ for His giving us salvation.

Paul was certainly set aside by God at his conception for the purpose God had planned for him. So we're others such as Samuel and John the Baptizer. Others even today.

I firmly believe the most effective tool in the work for Christ is a person that has experienced the opposite of God's expectations of us in our lives. Thus, Paul was truly prepared for his calling by Christ. Actually twice; initially prepared by his education to refute religious opposition and then by his actions against Christians.

Paul's salvation was instantaneous. He just had a learning curve before Christ could use him.

May God grant you a blessed day my fellow Christian.

Bill

Brother Jesse,

You state: "I don't believe there's any special formula for salvation other than surrendering to Christ and receiving His Spirit."

Respectfully, I think there is more to it than you expressed, and I believe Jesus does have "a special formula", and it is outlined throughout the bible. I say this so others will not take lightly their salvation, and hopefully they will study the scriptures on their own, to satisfy themselves that they are really following God's requirements "per the bible scripture."

John 3:5

"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

John 3:16

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

1 John 5:3

"For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous."

John 14:15

"If ye love me, keep my commandments."

John 14:21

"He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."

Jesus tells us that he will be our Judge, and he tells us what he will be looking for in us in order to enter into the Kingdom: Revelation 22:12-14

God Bless.

Amen Brother Jesse!

Bill, Here is part 2:

I don't believe there's any special formula for salvation other than surrendering to Christ and receiving His Spirit. It was at the point that He placed His Spirit inside me that my salvation took place. Personally, I don't like to use the word accept because the bible never says to accept Him but to receive Him. For me, to accept just means that I mentally agree with what He did for me. I have to receive Him.

I agree that growth takes time. It's a lifelong process. A person has to remain in God's word and be in submission to Him for there to be any growth. Saying we are a follower of Christ is one thing. Actually following Him and being in total submission to Him is another. As for Paul, I believe he was already set apart for salvation before he was born. I get that from Galatians 1:15.

Paul was around 30-32 years old when he had the experience on the Damascus road. God already set him apart for salvation from his mother's womb, but it wasn't until Paul was on the road to Damascus that God actually saved him. So it wasn't immediate for Paul even though God had already planned in due time to save him.

Paul didn't ask to be saved. He was on his was to have more Christians put to death. He says but when it pleased God, meaning the exact moment that God had planned. And Paul says he was separated from his mother's womb. So God already had a plan for Paul while he was still in the womb. For 30-32 years, he was carrying on in his sinful acts until one day God says "times up," and Jesus intervened.

I find it to be true with most, if not everyone that gets saved, is that we're on our own journey and He intervenes and cuts us off, stops us dead in our tracks, and points us in His direction.

Brother, thank you so much for reading my post. I truly respect your thoughts and the things you have to share. Sometimes we word things differently but often say the same thing. Thank you also for asking for clarification on what I said. God Bless!

Hello Bill,

Here is what I believe about immediate salvation. I believe that salvation takes place the moment that the Spirit of Christ enters into our spirit. Without His Spirit, there is no salvation. Romans 10:13 says that all who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. I believe that to be a promise that if we call upon Him to have mercy on us that He will at some point save us. I can't say it is immediate because only the Lord knows our hearts. But the promise that He will is still there. It's as it is a guarantee.

We are also told in Romans 8:9 that if we do not have the Spirit of God in us, we do not belong to Him. In other words, without His Spirit in us, there is no salvation that took place. So as far as when salvation takes place, I believe it is when His Spirit enters into our spirit. That's is when I believe that salvation takes place.

What I mean by saying for some it is immediate, and for others it could take a while, and it is something that you yourself touched on when you said if it is sincere and spiritually made it is immediate. I completely agree with you on that, amen! I can say that that was the case for me. I said a so called "sinners prayer" years before I actually received Christ. It wasn't sincere. I did it in front of my mother and her evangelist friend in order to please my mother, not because I wanted to surrender to Christ. There was no immediate salvation there at that time for me, even though I called upon the name of the Lord. He had to prepare my heart and it took years before I was ready to receive Him and make Him the Lord of my life.

I have a little more to say but am running out of space here. I am going to try and finish this up in a second post. I just wanted to clarify what I was saying. I don't see you as being argumentative at all. I'll send more as a (Part 2).

I question your statement. " It doesn't say that this salvation is immediate. But the promise is still there. Some get saved immediately, and for others it could take a while".

Christ told the thief on the cross there would be no delay in entering paradise. To me, this is immediate salvation.

If the acceptance of Christ is sincere and spiritually made, salvation is immediate. It is growth and understanding of what salvation means in your life that takes time. Reference the scriptures of Cornelius and his household in Acts 10:44-48. Is this not salvation immediately after hearing Peter?

Did Paul not receive his salvation on the road to Damascus? I believe he did but required a long period of learning before setting out on his Christ-given mission.

No intention of starting an argument, just asking if salvation is instantaneous or a long journey after accepting Christ as Lord and savior.

Brother in christ,

Bill

WOW!!!

Great post.

My situation in accepting Christ as my savior the first time, (yes, I accepted Him more properly later in life), at the age of 12 is similar to yours. It was basically a revival preacher and his prop that did it along with the pressure of the congregation "to do what is right".

The prop, a homemade wooden cross with a hole in its center where the two pieces of wood crossed. The minister was speaking of how the cross cleaned a soul of sin, he called sin "a dark red stain" on the soul. Next, he brought a glass from beneath the pulpit, as I am remembering, filled with some liquid that was red. He said this represented my soul, stained with all my sins. He set the glass on the pulpit, picked up the cross, and placed a basting bulb behind and through the hole in the cross. He then used one hand to pick up the glass and bring it in front of the cross, in front of the hole and bulb stem. As he again told of how the cross could cleanse my soul of the sin inside it, he squeezed the bulb, and some liquid squirted into the glass. The glass immediately became clear.

Impressive to a 12-year-old and his friend. We went forward at the invitation, mainly bewitched by the chemical demonstration. We were baptized.

Unfortunately, we were not taken under the wings of the church and never received guidance as how to actually become a Christian. We floundered with only the Sunday School class to guide us.

In actuality, I floundered for 50 years! Many denominations and even more churches with little instruction on living and believing the Christian life.

Finally, I found a church that encouraged me in living a Christian life. I was encouraged to study scripture and not to just accept what others say it means. My Christian life is now growing.

We are victims of well-meaning pastors. They count the baptisms and neglect the teaching required.

KEEP PRAYING AND BELIEVE CHRIST WILL HELP - HE WILL!!

Praying this will help you in your quest to ease your soul and guide you

Yes Luoma , you are right . Remember the plagues in Egypt ? All those terrible things that God brought onto the Egyptians ? The one before last , the thick darkness ? That must have been terrifying ! What happened to the Israelites then ? They had light in all their dwellings ! Christ is our light and we can be sure that God knows how to protect and provide for His own . Stay strong and the reward will be overwhelmingly awesome ! Much love in Christ .

We have to keep the faith that God will show us and lead us the right way and not to take that mark, that's when the Holy Spirit will speak through us, & we have to let him do it, What's going to be hard is not being able to buy, trade, or sell. Put food up in your cabinets, and save gold medals to trade for food. God always shows us a way out, we can depend on that, Don't take the mark

Lina, may God's favour continue to shine upon you.

Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a son, yet he learned obedience by the things which he SUFFERED.

We bear the same cross and walk the same path to Calvary.

1 Corinthians 15:31 ...We DIE daily..

Romans 6:6 ...our old man was crucified with him .....

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nonetheless I LIVE, yet not I, but Christ LIVETH IN ME: and the life I now live IN THE FLESH I live by the FAITH OF THE SON OF GOD, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Colossians 1:27 ... this mystery ...CHRIST IN US .....

GBU