If what you are asking are those who didn't believe in or have faith and do what was provided for them for salvation lost and condemned. I would say yes.
That is not just the Israelites in the OT, or the Gentiles in the OT.
It goes also for the Israelites today and the Gentiles today.
The Israelites before the crucifixion of Christ had to express their faith by the works of the law in their sacrifices and rituals pointing foward to one who would come. ( Their Messiah! )
This is called the dispensation of the law which started at Exodus 19:5 and ended at John 19:30.
This is what Paul is saying in Romans 10:4.
It is also important to note that the Law of Moses was given only for the nation of Israel.
( Exodus 19:3-8; Deuteronomy 5:1-3; 4:8). Jesus made it clear that it was given to Israel and not the Gentiles ( Mark 12:29-30). The apostle Paul said the Law was given to Israel and not the Church ( Romans 2:14; 9:4-5; Ephesians 2:11-12). The dispensation of Law is over.
While the Abrahamic Covenant continues and has not yet been completely fulfilled (even to this day),
As for Hell, It is not open for business yet.
According to the book of Revelation, the Beast and the false prophet are the first to be cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 19:20.
"And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:"
Mark 12:33
"And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices."
Mark 12:34
"And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question."
Genesis 3:15 - And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Genesis 12:3 - And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
Genesis 22:18 - And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
Jeremiah 31:33 - But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Mark 12:29-31 - And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30, And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31, And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
Acts 17:11 - These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
1 Corinthians 13:13 - And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
1 Corinthians 15:1-4 - Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2, By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3, For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4, And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Mark 14:12, "And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?:
Matthew 26:17 agrres to that. Similarly Luke 22:7, "Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.
And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat."
So the meaning of Luke 22:15 is that Jesus actually ate the passover meal with his disciples.
Now we know from Exodus 12:1-11, that the lambs were sacrificed in the evening of the 14th of Nisan and immediately after when it got dark and the 15th of Nisan started, according to how the Israelites were considering their days and nights, they ate the passover meal. Exodus 12:11, "And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is the LORD'S passover."
But John disagrees to them. He places the Passover one day later. John 18:28, "Then led they (the Pharisses) Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover."
Having in mind that John wrote his gospel last of all, actually as the tradition says many decades after the first three evangelists, when he was in his 80's or 90's, and knew what they had written in their gospels, his story seems to be the right one. So it seems that Jesus ate the passover meal with His apostles one day earlier, probably because He knew that he would be in the tomb the day of the passover. If we see some details in the gospels of the first three, we get the same conclusion. Example: Mark 12:45, "And he BOUGHT fine linen, and took him down, and wrapped him in the linen, and laid him in a sepulchre which was hewn out of a rock, and rolled a stone unto the door of the sepulchre."
Day 8 January 8,2025 Romans 12:2 KJV West Angeles Church Consecration Calendar
Me being a member at West Angeles Cogic Church Cathedral Los Angeles, California
Romans 12: Verse 2
My interpetation: REDAPPLETREATY4MEONLY
"Putting God first and only God no other. Loving God with your heart first. Mark 12:30 KJV, Matthew 6:33 KJV.Jesus Christ is the only way to divine healing.
Letting God control you by listening and following instructions of his voice and word.Allowing your body to become like Jesus- holy, righteous,holiness."
Me identifying myself as Christian before and member at West Angeles Cogic Church Cathedral I conformed to God Romans 10:9-10 KJV having faith Hebrews 11:1 KJV and practice reading my Holy Bible Trusting God.
Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
John 17:1-3 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
1 Corinthians 15:25,28 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
Mark 12:42 - And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.
And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites. Those aren't bugs. Those are the names of coins. It is actually the word LEPTA. A LEPTA is only 1/64th of a day's wage. Somebody figured that out to be about 10 or 12 minutes, 1/64th of a day's wage.
And so, two of them (two mites), it adds up to a KORENTAS, 1/32nd of a day's wage. Not much! She threw in these two coins worth 1/32nd of a day's wage. Today, someone might have sent a visitation committee to her house. The word farthing is the word KORENTAS.
Mark 13:8 - For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.
The word "sorrows" in the Greek text is the word for birth pains. When a woman begins her delivery process, the birth pains come further apart, and they are not as strong. What Jesus is saying is that when you see all these things happening, it is just getting started. Don't think that the end is coming anytime soon.
Mark 13:9 - But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
Notice what He is saying to the synagogues and to the Council. The word council is Sanhedrin, the chief Council of the Jews. He is talking to Jewish people. He is talking directly to His disciples. He is talking directly to His believers, the Jews.
Mark 12:15 - Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them, Why tempt ye me? bring me a penny, that I may see it.
In the Greek text, Jesus says "Bring me a DENARIUS, that I may see it." A denarius is a Greek coin. And the denarius represents one day's wages. You can't use the Greek coin in the temple because it has the image of Caesar on it. But Jesus says, bring me a denarius so that I can see it.
Mark 12:37 - David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son? And the common people heard him gladly.
They said, "Oh, this is great." They loved every minute of it. This Man is the wisdom of God. Listen to Him. Go ahead scribes, answer Him! So, when He quotes Psalm 110:1, David is saying to his Son, my Lord. Well, how can He be his Son, and then He is his Lord? So, Jesus is saying, how does that work? They couldn't answer!
Of course, the answer is the word son (HUIOS) has to do with descendancy, not a literal son. So, he was actually calling his Son his Lord, even though his Son would come after him, He actually existed before him. He was his God. This is the same thing John the Baptist said. The one who comes after me was before me and was preferred before me.
Mark 12:41 - And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.
Now I like this one! This would be equivalent to Jesus sitting across the tithing envelopes in the foyer in church. That would make you nervous wouldn't it? Jesus was watching how the people cast their money into the treasury: how they were doing it, not how much, and many that were rich cast in much.
Mark 10:52 - And Jesus said unto him, Go thy way; thy faith hath made thee whole. And immediately he received his sight, and followed Jesus in the way.
The word whole is the word for salvation, SOUDSO.
Mark 11:22 - And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.
So, Jesus responded and he said (According to our English Bible), Have faith in God.
Literally in the Greek text, it reads "have the faith of God." Big difference! And the word "have" is a command. Have the faith of God! Faith is a gift from God, not of man. So, when we call out for mercy, we also call out, "Lord, I believe but help my unbelief." Lord have mercy on me, I don't deserve it, but if You don't have mercy on me I'm lost. Jesus says, have the faith of God.
Mark 12:1 - And he began to speak unto them by parables. A certain man planted a vineyard, and set an hedge about it, and digged a place for the winefat, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country.
The word husbandmen is the Greek word for farmers. That was pretty customary to see in Jerusalem, where you fix up a vineyard and then rent it out to some farmers because you're leaving the country. And what the pay would be is that when the harvest comes, you would get a certain percentage of the crops. That is a pretty good deal!
Mark 12:14 - And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not?
The question is, is it lawful to give tribute, (that means tax) to Caesar, or not? They want to know if it is lawful. To the English-speaking mind, to give tribute to someone might mean to pay respect to or speak well of them.
I do not want to drag this out, I did not mean to insinuate that angels have sex in heaven, Matthew 22:30 and Mark 12:25 have nothing to do with the biological sex of angels. All I said is this verse says when we are resurrected, we will be as the angels, immortal. There will be a day when the last baby is born on this earth.
Devils/demons and angels are two different beings, the Bible does not really tell us how devils/demons came to be, they do not have bodies and have to possess one as we see in Matthew 12:43-45 and other places, Angels have bodies and can attack us in our surroundings outside of our bodies, they can hurt us on the outside but they cannot possess our body, I can testify to that I have had personal confrontations with both, that is something I pray I do not have to go through again but if so, my Lord will be there with me as He was then.
Just me, if the ones locked in chains of darkness refused to obey a command from God Satan would have already been locked up but he is still disobeying and creating havoc. Were there actual Giants, to my studies they are not of the human race their size is outside of any human, it is up to one's own belief, this is just a discussion that has no relevance to salvation.
Thanks for your reply, I know many have the understanding the sons of God in Genesis 6 are the line of Seth and the daughters of men are of Cain and those not following God. I will just give a little of my understanding not in debate.
Scripture tells us there were Nephilim/giants in the world before and after the flood Genesis 6:42 Samuel 21:16Joshua 12:4Numbers 13:33Deuteronomy 2:19-21Amos 2:9 Also in Joshua 13, 15, 17, 18, 2 Samuel 21 and 1 Chronicles 20 Also, in the Old Testament, there is the Rephaim or Rephaites, and the context describes them as giants. so, where did they come from?
2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 1: 6 tell us of a group of angels who left their first estate and are locked in darkness. Many other fallen angels we battle including Satan are on this earth 2 Corinthians 11:14-15. But these angels are locked in darkness until judgment, and we see in Revelation 9:11 they have a king. These angels had to do something far greater than rebelling against God, my understanding is they adulterated God's creation, we see how corrupt it got.
We know from Jude and 2 Peter angels sinned, kept not their first estate, and left their habitation. Estate means condition, status, and dominion, and habitation means residence or dwelling place. I understand how many takes Matthew 22:30 and Mark 12:25 but Jesus is not referring to sex He is saying when we are resurrected, we will be like the angels in heaven who are immortal. We are mortal, we have to marry and reproduce when we are resurrected, we will be raised immortal same as the angels no more need to marry and reproduce, and we will be on the earth not heaven.
We see angels come down on earth that have bodies, they can eat and drink, Genesis 18:1-8 and other places like Hebrews 13:2. To me the angels who left their estate is where these giants came from, and we see when Israel went into the promised land God wiped out the giants or had them kill them all even the children.
All Praises To The MOST HIGH YAH In HaMashiac! I just read a comment that said, "Mashiac said keep the Commandments not the Statutes." I guess that person never looked up the definition of Commandment, Laws, Statutes, Ordinances, Mandate, Decree, Dictum, Mitzvah, Order, Canon or Precepts. If that person was right in their understanding, then Mashiac would've quoted Exodus 20:3
"Thou shalt have no other gods before me." But Mashiac said Mark 12:29
"And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
" Mark 12:30
"And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment."
Clearly this is a Law given by Moses in Deuteronomy 6:4
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
" Deuteronomy 6:5
"And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might."
If you believe that Mashiac only gave the 10 Commandments, what Commandment is Mark 12:29-30 cause He said its the first.
Malachi 2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?
Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
1 John 2:22-23 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
Philippians 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Acts 10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Luke 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
St Mark gives us the v.40 almost identical with that of Matthew ch.23 but the former uses it a point of departure in order to illustrate in real time of a widow parting with her only livelihood. "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation."(23:14). How truth reaches a congregation when the scribes and Pharisee teach is different than the widow whose penury offered no stumbling block from exercising faith. Jesus "And beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much."
The widow "but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living" places her life squarely upon whom it belongs. It catches the eye of our Savior.
In the Parable of the Rich Fool he had all the worldly goods but lacked the good sense. He was not rich towards God. So God tells him, " Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?"( Luke 12:20) Jesus commends the poor widow who exercised faith most wisely. The scribes and Pharisee as we are familiar with the term applied 'active' faith so the poor and needy part with their living, in expectations of a windfall. Jesus calls their shepherding as 'devouring' instead.
God sent his only begotten Son in order to give whosoever believed in him, everlasting life. Jesus also tells how anyone may do the work of God. It can only be with Jesus, "Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?/Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."( John 6:28-29)
This is faith where the poor widow worked with God and for her livelihood she did not have to put on the mind of the scribes and Pharisees, devouring the gullible among their audience. For the faith of the widow was set in heavenly places with the Son.
"And Jesus answered and said, while he taught in the temple, How say the scribes that Christ is the son of David?"(v.35). The scribes as mentioned here is a generic name for those who interpret the Law but they do not consider they are bound by it. "All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not." For they says, and they do not."(Matt.23:2-3). Matthew is referring to the scribes and the Pharisees who sit in Moses' seat. It is a metaphor for spiritual authority of the Law. Isaiah gives us a throne which is the ultimate authority "The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool."(Is.66:1)
Mark gives 'the woe to ye' discourse in Ch.23 as part of his doctrine which explains why the word of God is a two-edged sword (He.4:12).The Gospel is for salvation and if it is neglected it shall prove unto damnation. "And he said unto them in his doctrine," is consequential since it is the eternal word. In our times we could call what the scribes indulged was in Jesus talk. The saying of Jesus "but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not," is a sane advice for Christians who would want to live a godly life.
Jesus.
In vv.35-37 Jesus asks,"How say the scribes that Christ is the son of David?"The scribes erred in their textual criticism by omitting the intent and the integrity of the Psalm 110:1 This is what literal approach does. What they threw out is the everlasting covenant were seven days pendent on the day decreed for the Son. Along with it goes the significance of the Lamb slain, (Ps.2:7; Re.13:8) What happened in a megachurch where The elders had publicly disciplined a woman for refusing to take back her husband owes to their lack of understanding the word. As it turned out, the woman's fears proved true, and her husband went to prison for child molestation and abuse. The church never retracted its discipline or apologised in the 20+ years since.
St Mark gives us two commandments which shall explain what keeps the kingdom of God together. Merriam -Webster explains the scribe as a member of a learned class in ancient Israel through New Testament times studying the Scriptures and serving as copyists, editors, teachers, and jurists. One of their class, who was present when Jesus put to silence the Sadducees had a question to ask. He would have pored over the texts in order to interpret all the law and the prophets wanted to tempt Jesus as St Matthew puts it. That the ten commandments could be reduced to two must have come as a surprise to him. Never in his understanding had this truth dawned as to what Jesus signified. As the Lord from heaven the Decalogue began from one ("God is one") and also ended with him. This made both heaven and the earth on single yardstick in the matter of fulfilling the will of God. God is a Spirit and without its sovereignty and without obeying it a many may make it his business to preach but is an ignoramus as the Pharisees and the scribes who were out to destroy Jesus who was the fulfillment of the Law. When God sent his Son Jesus was a sign to which Prophet Isaiah had predicted (Is.7:14). They also heard him deliver the doctrine of hid Father which we know as the Sermon on the Mount.
The writer to the Hebrews place the role of the Son, "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,/Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son," (He.1:1-2). In their opposition what did the ten in the Decalogue meant? They were judged already. The two commandments represented the deity and humanity of the Son. "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."(Matt.22:40). The Word as the sound and as a sign made the kingdom of God work. Their questions were to no avail because faith without works is dead. The discreet answer of the scribe is in "with all your heart, with all your soul etc., v.33
Looking over the horizon I am suddenly made aware of the controversy; like today's earthquakes in our part of the country which if were over open water would cause a Tsunami (if they were a lot stronger). It seems necessary to navigate through the seas in regard to what VERSION of scripture we should use; but I will swim out far enough and; as with an undertow attempt to go sideways as not to be dragged under.
Okay; facing it head on; I think most of us agree the KJV is the best study version of scripture to use; and I simply will leave all the aftershocks of the debate a couple months back about those dogmatic that it is the only inspired version of scripture for others to bring up as it seems inevitable that it will. I simply want to repeat that ancient Greek in particular has MORE THAN ONE descriptive adjective that can be used in English to get the full meaning thus it CANNOT be translated word for word without jumping around and causing much confusion. I will also say (risking the uproar) that sometimes other versions may have another word that helps to more clearly describe the original text. Now; if we can get past what I hope to be a 90 second event and move on....
Other sources can be used (commentaries; concordances; history books; sermon readings and interpretations of scripture) but enough can usually be understood in the Bible that we have at least a fair comprehension of God's Word. His commands are not grievous ( 1 John 5:3) and that should also mean they aren't overly complex to understand; cumbersome or voluminous. The concept of loving God and our neighbor as ourself ( Mark 12:30-31) sums up the law and should be the primary motivation; mindset and state of our heart and soul when the love of Christ constrains us ( 2 Cor. 5:14-19).
Starting with concordances; I am probably going to leave it to the audience to recommend the top ones. I have found some Bibles have cross references that are baffling.
"Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him."
The two worlds of the Spirit and of the body have only language which is faith. (He.11:3) When the Son said,A body hast prepared me it made the DNA between the world made to appear and the world unseen as the only proof of paternity. Thus the body of the Son is the visible image of the invisible God. ( Col 1:15) In the Parable of the Tares we have the good seed and the tares which can be known by their fruits. "Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?"(Matt.7:16)
So God is a Spirit sent his Son as the word become flesh.He did not ask the impossible when he went to the fig tree. The glory of the tree with seed in itself was determined according to the everlasting covenant, and the blessing of man in 'our likeness' connected as with the body God gave both. It was on the basis of faith and not by the will of the tares, source of which is by courtesy of the enemy who slipped in while the world slept. Caesars have come and gone, none of them has shown their glory endured. Had these men faith in God as the rewarder of the just?
In the hypothetical question the Sadducees put to Jesus vv.19-23 they were in error since the concept of marriage instituted by the tradition of their fathers was not founded on truth. "And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?/For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven."(vv.24-25) In our times by false shepherds who dismiss works from their faith and espouse politicians as the Herodians, blame the victims for refusing to live with child molesters and perverts? Excommunicating Eileen and condoning the abuser if how the elders read the word of God. The tares shall continue but how long?
"And they send unto him certain of the Pharisees and of the Herodians, to catch him in his words."Earlier when John the Baptist arrived at the scene, stirring up great many people who came to be baptized at his hand we read,"And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?" John categorically rejected any notion that he was the Christ. It did not stop there."Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us."( John 1:19-22). Now the chief priests scribes and various sects who came to Jesus, "and they wanted to catch him in his words" firstly simulated fear for God, "They say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth" the same method that Satan employed to tempt Jesus and he also began," he said, If thou be the Son of God, command". The playbook of Satan is for whosoever who would want to be a power player in the world and the Herodians were one such in the time of Jesus, and in our times we have their ilk appearing in droves behind their candidate and sets Christian Visibility Day for other reason than they are sent. It is the spirit of wickedness at work, "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming."(2 The.2:8). For those who abide in Christ and seek to see the light in his light does Christian visibility Day make any sense? St Paul is clear in warning, "In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."(2 Co.4:4)
Jesus warned of this wicked and adulterous generation. Evangelicals want a sign and and Jesus refers to the son of perdition,Matt.24:15. the sign of our times Desolation is sure to come
St Mark cites Jesus referring the quote from the Psalm (118:22-23) which is identical in the gospel of St Matthew. The parable of rock is with direct reference to the judgment which we have it executed by an angel from above causing the fall of Babylon.(Re.18:21) Israel's failure is symptomatic of the wicked nations that have no interest in giving glory to the sovereign Lord of heaven and the earth. So they shall be judged with all other nations for their failure to produce fruits thereof. When they least expect God shall take the vineyard from the miserable husbandmen and give to others, Thus the parable centers about the Son who also is the Rock of Ages. In his rejection Israel committed a fatal error and it is to which the above mentioned quote from the Psalm alludes.
"Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes?/Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof." (Matt.21:42-43)
Mark gives us the answer of Jesus, "What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do? he will come and destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others"(v.9). St Matthew sets him as a symbol, as the rock of offense and as the stone of stumbling. "And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder." (21:44)
"And they sought to lay hold on him, but feared the people: for they knew that he had spoken the parable against them: and they left him, and went their way." (v.12) The chief priests scribes and the Pharisees would try to destroy Jesus somehow.
To start; I used to have a similar understanding of the Trinity doctrine but over time it has changed, and I am still studying it. I do not consider myself part of any group or denomination other than a believer and follower of Jesus. I feel we should inspire each other to study in prayer for the truth and to be open to the Holy Spirit to unveil the truth as we know nothing.
With me, it started with two verses, 2 Corinthians 11:3-4, I contemplated these verses for a long time, it was like they stuck in my mind unanswered. In my study of the Trinity, I found out how it developed and how many deaths it caused even after the Reformation, and the questions I asked in Churches, many could not explain it and said it is a mystery that man cannot comprehend.
Is God and has He always been one solitary person?
Deut. 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD, Mark 12:29 and as said in 1 Cor. 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. My understanding is God the Father is eternal He has always been and will always be Psalms 90:2. God is Spirit, if a person means He has a will, emotions, the ability to speak, rationalize, self-awareness, to have a relationship with His creation, love, hate, etc. yes one person.
Before creation was, He always and only alone, without anyone to love?
What was before creation in Scripture we have no writings or information, Scripture tells us the hosts of heaven were before the creation of the earth and the galaxies, Job 38:4-7. How long before the physical world and universe we see we do not know. God's plan He declared the end from the beginning, Isaiah 46:9-10. I may be wrong, but God has never been alone inside Himself, time nor space cannot contain who He is, the beginning of His plan was Jesus.
Just me, seems there are fewer discussions lately on this site and Momsage's post suggested discussion. My understanding of discussions is brothers and sisters sharing their understanding of a subject not to belittle or to prove one as being wrong, but by sharing our understanding of a subject that will encourage each other to study in prayer for the truth.
What is faith? We see in Hebrews 11:1,6 We also have Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
We are to have faith but our faith cannot be based on the word of man where we can be deceived and taken out of the way. Our faith must come from the word of God guided by His Spirit and His word is the Holy Scripture, He has given us.
This one subject is based on the word of man, nowhere in Scripture does it tell us we must believe or have faith in a triune God, but the opposite, Deuteronomy 6:4Mark 12:291 Timothy 2:5, and many more. "God made us a living soul" Soul is the Hebrew word nephesh, a living being, any living being, every air-breathing creature is a nephesh, a living being/soul.
Genesis 1:26 many apply the Trinity to this verse but then we must ignore verse 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. This could also easily be first-person plural, like mom says, let us make tacos and then she is the one who makes the tacos. If we lived before 489 AD, before the Trinity doctrine was made the foundational belief of Christianity, and the punishment of heresy, how would we take this verse?
If we walk in the world we will perish, if we walk in the Spirit our faith is in Jesus and our hope is as Jesus was resurrected in His glorified body so we shall also be resurrected in our glorified body into eternal life with Him.
Thank you again, from my heart, the truth is my search not to offend. It all goes back to one verse when I read it, it stood out in my heart, Corinthians 11:4. I know I am alone here on this, but saying Jesus is part of the Triune God, who eternally exists and expresses himself as three distinct persons with one essence all three co-equal. One God in three persons-the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. This to me denies the Son, 1 John 2:23
What I see in the Bible is the relationship between the Father and the Son, the Son is obedient to the Father. Jesus said His Father is greater than Him, John 14:28. Jesus has said the Father is His God, John 20:17Revelation 3:12.
The Bible defines God's nature as eternal and unchanging; there is only one throne of God and through the Bible, only the Father is on the throne until the Father raised His Son from the dead and placed Him on His right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, there is nothing about the Holy Spirit.
As we see in Revelation Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple and the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof, Rev. 21:22-23 no Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God is the Holy Spirit, not another person.
Jesus confirmed there is only one true God, Mark 12:28-34, in Jesus's prayer to His Father said in John 17:3. All the greetings in the New Testament are from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, Galatians 1:3Ephesians 6:231 Thessalonians 1:12 Timothy 1:2Titus 1:42 John 1:3 and more but no Holy Spirit.
If the Trinity true and is so important, why is it not once taught in Scripture? God cannot change and God cannot die, so how do we understand John 3:16 if God the Father did not send his actual begotten Son to die for our sins? We see Jesus also had His own will, Luke 22:42.
God made Jesus Lord, Acts 2:36, made is thee Greek word ginomai that means to come into being, to happen, to become. This was foreordained before the foundation of the world and this Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world, 1 Peter 1:19-20Revelation 13:8, foreordained the Greek word proginosko means to know beforehand to appoint or decree beforehand.
I see too many Scriptures that do not agree with the doctrine. I hope this makes sense. This is Scripture without man's knowledge or wisdom 1 Corinthians 1:22Jeremiah 10:10 10 Malachi 2:10Mark 12:32
Paul wrote these; Romans 3:30Romans 15:61 Corinthians 8:62 Corinthians 1:32 Corinthians 11:31Ephesians 1:3Ephesians 1:17Ephesians 3:14Ephesians 4:6Colossians 1:31 Timothy 2:5
Peter wrote this; 1 Peter 1:3
These are Jesus's words Himself; Matthew 27:46 Same in Mark 15:34John 14:28John 17:3John 20:17Revelation 3:12
What this says to me, there is only one true God who is the God and Father of Jesus,
These Scriptures are clear without our wisdom or knowledge do not agree with the doctrine of the Trinity. I do thank you and again I hope you do not consider me a Gnostic that would be sad, they are more of a philosophical like the immortal soul came from Greek philosophy, I am believer and follower of Jesus our Lord and savior.
John 17:5 I may not be able to answer this satisfactorily, but I do not think Jesus was in heaven other than in God's plan in God's thoughts as the word logos is the expression of a thought. When Jesus was baptized, He was anointed without measure by the Holy Spirit/Ghost, John 3:34 at that point Jesus was given power and authority John 5:26-27 and then Matthew 28:18.
All through the New Testament Jesus said what He said, what He did, and the works that were done was God His Father and not Him, John 14:10, it was the word of God, God was manifested in Jesus everything was given to Jesus, He did not have it before God the Father gave it to Him.
God dwelt in Jesus and Jesus in Him, I feel Jesus became the Tabernacle of God, as His name shall be called Emmanuel God with us, same as Jesus told Peter, John 14:9. Jesus had the full measure of the Holy Spirit/Ghost this is why He said what He said in John 14:17 they saw the Holy Spirit/Ghost because it was with them in Him that gave Jesus the power for God to do the works/miracles.
This was in the prayer Jesus was praying to His Father just before He went to the cross, Jesus was asking His Father to glorify Him so that He may glorify God so that we might know the only true God. John17:1-3 Mark 12:29.
Colossians 1:15-17 I will try on this one, "in the image" is a mirror-like representation that Jesus was, like He said to Peter if you have seen me, you have seen God. Man cannot see God nor look on Him, John 1:18 Jesus was the faithful witness Revelation 1:5 and a witness tells or reveals the truth, and Jesus showed us the truth of who God is the only true God.
Jesus was the first and everything in God's thoughts and mind, Jesus was there in God's mind but was not sent until the fullness of time, Ephesians 1:10. I feel that is why Jesus said over and over it is not me but He who sent me.
I know we may differ, but I hope I am showing honestly my understanding.
I understand your passion and I believe you may have misunderstood parts of my post; I am sorry. Your first question is yes, I am a follower of Jesus. Jesus answered the scribe and said, Mark 12: 29-30 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And yes, I do, but am I perfect, NO.
I do not belong to any denomination; I have attended many denominations but Catholic and I am in my 70s and there is not a church close to me now that I feel comfortable going to. John 1:1 I will say my understanding is different and too long to explain in this reply maybe another thread.
What I meant about Matthew 28:19 is in this verse Jesus told them to go baptizing people in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. People use this to support the Trinity doctrine but nowhere in the New Testament is anyone baptized in the name of the three, people were only baptized in the name of Jesus not that there was no baptizing in the New Testament, but they were only baptized in the name of Jesus.
As you listed Acts 4:10-12 only by the name of Jesus and "none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. And that name is who they baptized people in the New Testament not of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. Now in many churches, a person must believe in the Trinity for salvation, and if they do not confess the Trinity, they are not a Christian. Can you show me where that was said or was taught anywhere in the New Testament?
I am sorry we do not agree on this, and I hope this helps you understand my last post, and may we be guided by the Holy Spirit in our study for the truth, we are one body.
Hi, don't sweat the small details. The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand. The Holy Spirit has already found you. God will direct you as needed: remember, His will not yours, be done. So don't push yourself. And, for now, be content as you simply read the Bible and keep this in your Heart:
Mark 12:28-34
Then one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, perceiving that He had answered them well, asked Him, "Which is the first commandment of all?" Jesus answered him, "The first of all the commandments is: 'Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is one. And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.' This is the first commandment. And the second, like it, is this: 'You shall love your neighbour as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these." So the scribe said to Him, "Well said, Teacher. You have spoken the truth, for there is one God, and there is no other but He. And to love Him with all the heart, with all the understanding, with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love one's neighbor as oneself, is more than all the whole burnt offerings and sacrifices." Now when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, He said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God."
Trust in Jesus and all will be well; even in regard the Enemy. The Enemy is currently in panic-mode, as he knows his time is short and his days are numbered. All the horrors of the world and the attacks on the minds of children from certain 'proud' folk is all part of the (already failed) plan to undermine the Kingdom. God's Kingdom is already here. This world was bought and paid for with Jesus' Blood. The enemy has no power over those that are saved. So, have no fear, God's Kingdom is here. Yes, there's going to be a bit of trouble, but everything is going according to God's Plan and all will be to His Glory. Hold fast, enjoy your new-found Life and Trust In Jesus. Blessings to You.
Hi Shell, if I may..As GiGi replied, so many translations up to the KJV publishing in 1611 were not always written by council/competent authority so as King, King James appointed competent council giving them the authority to conclude one book, the KJB version(ONLY according to original documents, which there are thousand upon thousands of) & still has not changed. I have a 1698 copy that is 'Jot per Tittle' the same as my KJV from last yr.
As Hemorlan replied, 'Acts is the transitional book (rightly dividing) OT & NT. For the OT laws were for the Jews i.e. before Jesus DBR (death, burial & resurrection). NT is for All Jews & Gentiles. Christ shed His blood & died for All who choose to believe & All sin past, present & future. Making us All one in salvation.
As you point out, Romans 15:4..Paul is stating 'For what was written in the past was so we learn from past mistakes & come out unscathed by the world around us. To be strengthened in our hope/faith through patients for the evil around us & be comforted knowing God was w/them then as He is w/us now'. As for 2 Tim3:15, that's partial scripture & is best interpreted/understood if you read entire meaning not merely one verse, 2 Tim 3:12-17.
As for Matt 5:17-20, Jesus is speaking to the disciples on how things are related/differ tween the OT(Gen-Acts12) & how things will be upon His DBR to come (NT) Acts 13-The Revelation. In Matt:17, He didn't come to destroy anyone/anything but to fulfill prophecy of His Father. God does not make us choose Him, We have 'freewill'. Satan on the other hand will continue to torcher us & those around us till we choose evil. Put on the Armor of God Eph 6:10-18, being guarded from satan devouring souls simply for he knows his Eternity & is angry wanting revenge. Loving God w/all our being, Mark 12:28-33 & of course John 3:12-21. It's not hard as prosperity preachers would have you believe. I for one enjoy learning truth. With His blood, Christ Himself said it best .. "It is finished".
Those who went against God?
If what you are asking are those who didn't believe in or have faith and do what was provided for them for salvation lost and condemned. I would say yes.
That is not just the Israelites in the OT, or the Gentiles in the OT.
It goes also for the Israelites today and the Gentiles today.
The Israelites before the crucifixion of Christ had to express their faith by the works of the law in their sacrifices and rituals pointing foward to one who would come. ( Their Messiah! )
This is called the dispensation of the law which started at Exodus 19:5 and ended at John 19:30.
This is what Paul is saying in Romans 10:4.
It is also important to note that the Law of Moses was given only for the nation of Israel.
( Exodus 19:3-8; Deuteronomy 5:1-3; 4:8). Jesus made it clear that it was given to Israel and not the Gentiles ( Mark 12:29-30). The apostle Paul said the Law was given to Israel and not the Church ( Romans 2:14; 9:4-5; Ephesians 2:11-12). The dispensation of Law is over.
While the Abrahamic Covenant continues and has not yet been completely fulfilled (even to this day),
As for Hell, It is not open for business yet.
According to the book of Revelation, the Beast and the false prophet are the first to be cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 19:20.
I hope this helps.
GB.
Mark 12:32
"And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:"
Mark 12:33
"And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices."
Mark 12:34
"And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question."
Genesis 3:15 - And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Genesis 12:3 - And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
Genesis 22:18 - And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
Jeremiah 31:33 - But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Mark 12:29-31 - And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30, And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31, And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
Acts 17:11 - These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
1 Corinthians 13:13 - And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
1 Corinthians 15:1-4 - Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2, By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3, For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4, And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
May I share my thoughts on what you posted?
Mark 14:12, "And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?:
Matthew 26:17 agrres to that. Similarly Luke 22:7, "Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.
And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat."
So the meaning of Luke 22:15 is that Jesus actually ate the passover meal with his disciples.
Now we know from Exodus 12:1-11, that the lambs were sacrificed in the evening of the 14th of Nisan and immediately after when it got dark and the 15th of Nisan started, according to how the Israelites were considering their days and nights, they ate the passover meal. Exodus 12:11, "And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is the LORD'S passover."
But John disagrees to them. He places the Passover one day later. John 18:28, "Then led they (the Pharisses) Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover."
Having in mind that John wrote his gospel last of all, actually as the tradition says many decades after the first three evangelists, when he was in his 80's or 90's, and knew what they had written in their gospels, his story seems to be the right one. So it seems that Jesus ate the passover meal with His apostles one day earlier, probably because He knew that he would be in the tomb the day of the passover. If we see some details in the gospels of the first three, we get the same conclusion. Example: Mark 12:45, "And he BOUGHT fine linen, and took him down, and wrapped him in the linen, and laid him in a sepulchre which was hewn out of a rock, and rolled a stone unto the door of the sepulchre."
Me being a member at West Angeles Cogic Church Cathedral Los Angeles, California
Romans 12: Verse 2
My interpetation: REDAPPLETREATY4MEONLY
"Putting God first and only God no other. Loving God with your heart first. Mark 12:30 KJV, Matthew 6:33 KJV.Jesus Christ is the only way to divine healing.
Letting God control you by listening and following instructions of his voice and word.Allowing your body to become like Jesus- holy, righteous,holiness."
Me identifying myself as Christian before and member at West Angeles Cogic Church Cathedral I conformed to God Romans 10:9-10 KJV having faith Hebrews 11:1 KJV and practice reading my Holy Bible Trusting God.
Word Spoken and Written by REDAPPLETREATY4MEONLY
Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
John 17:1-3 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
1 Corinthians 15:25,28 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
God bless,
RLW
Mark 12:42 - And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.
And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites. Those aren't bugs. Those are the names of coins. It is actually the word LEPTA. A LEPTA is only 1/64th of a day's wage. Somebody figured that out to be about 10 or 12 minutes, 1/64th of a day's wage.
And so, two of them (two mites), it adds up to a KORENTAS, 1/32nd of a day's wage. Not much! She threw in these two coins worth 1/32nd of a day's wage. Today, someone might have sent a visitation committee to her house. The word farthing is the word KORENTAS.
Mark 13:8 - For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.
The word "sorrows" in the Greek text is the word for birth pains. When a woman begins her delivery process, the birth pains come further apart, and they are not as strong. What Jesus is saying is that when you see all these things happening, it is just getting started. Don't think that the end is coming anytime soon.
Mark 13:9 - But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
Notice what He is saying to the synagogues and to the Council. The word council is Sanhedrin, the chief Council of the Jews. He is talking to Jewish people. He is talking directly to His disciples. He is talking directly to His believers, the Jews.
Mark 12:15 - Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them, Why tempt ye me? bring me a penny, that I may see it.
In the Greek text, Jesus says "Bring me a DENARIUS, that I may see it." A denarius is a Greek coin. And the denarius represents one day's wages. You can't use the Greek coin in the temple because it has the image of Caesar on it. But Jesus says, bring me a denarius so that I can see it.
Mark 12:37 - David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son? And the common people heard him gladly.
They said, "Oh, this is great." They loved every minute of it. This Man is the wisdom of God. Listen to Him. Go ahead scribes, answer Him! So, when He quotes Psalm 110:1, David is saying to his Son, my Lord. Well, how can He be his Son, and then He is his Lord? So, Jesus is saying, how does that work? They couldn't answer!
Of course, the answer is the word son (HUIOS) has to do with descendancy, not a literal son. So, he was actually calling his Son his Lord, even though his Son would come after him, He actually existed before him. He was his God. This is the same thing John the Baptist said. The one who comes after me was before me and was preferred before me.
Mark 12:41 - And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.
Now I like this one! This would be equivalent to Jesus sitting across the tithing envelopes in the foyer in church. That would make you nervous wouldn't it? Jesus was watching how the people cast their money into the treasury: how they were doing it, not how much, and many that were rich cast in much.
Mark 10:52 - And Jesus said unto him, Go thy way; thy faith hath made thee whole. And immediately he received his sight, and followed Jesus in the way.
The word whole is the word for salvation, SOUDSO.
Mark 11:22 - And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.
So, Jesus responded and he said (According to our English Bible), Have faith in God.
Literally in the Greek text, it reads "have the faith of God." Big difference! And the word "have" is a command. Have the faith of God! Faith is a gift from God, not of man. So, when we call out for mercy, we also call out, "Lord, I believe but help my unbelief." Lord have mercy on me, I don't deserve it, but if You don't have mercy on me I'm lost. Jesus says, have the faith of God.
Mark 12:1 - And he began to speak unto them by parables. A certain man planted a vineyard, and set an hedge about it, and digged a place for the winefat, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country.
The word husbandmen is the Greek word for farmers. That was pretty customary to see in Jerusalem, where you fix up a vineyard and then rent it out to some farmers because you're leaving the country. And what the pay would be is that when the harvest comes, you would get a certain percentage of the crops. That is a pretty good deal!
Mark 12:14 - And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not?
The question is, is it lawful to give tribute, (that means tax) to Caesar, or not? They want to know if it is lawful. To the English-speaking mind, to give tribute to someone might mean to pay respect to or speak well of them.
I do not want to drag this out, I did not mean to insinuate that angels have sex in heaven, Matthew 22:30 and Mark 12:25 have nothing to do with the biological sex of angels. All I said is this verse says when we are resurrected, we will be as the angels, immortal. There will be a day when the last baby is born on this earth.
Devils/demons and angels are two different beings, the Bible does not really tell us how devils/demons came to be, they do not have bodies and have to possess one as we see in Matthew 12:43-45 and other places, Angels have bodies and can attack us in our surroundings outside of our bodies, they can hurt us on the outside but they cannot possess our body, I can testify to that I have had personal confrontations with both, that is something I pray I do not have to go through again but if so, my Lord will be there with me as He was then.
Just me, if the ones locked in chains of darkness refused to obey a command from God Satan would have already been locked up but he is still disobeying and creating havoc. Were there actual Giants, to my studies they are not of the human race their size is outside of any human, it is up to one's own belief, this is just a discussion that has no relevance to salvation.
Thank you, brother God bless,
RLW
Thanks for your reply, I know many have the understanding the sons of God in Genesis 6 are the line of Seth and the daughters of men are of Cain and those not following God. I will just give a little of my understanding not in debate.
Scripture tells us there were Nephilim/giants in the world before and after the flood Genesis 6:4 2 Samuel 21:16 Joshua 12:4 Numbers 13:33 Deuteronomy 2:19-21 Amos 2:9 Also in Joshua 13, 15, 17, 18, 2 Samuel 21 and 1 Chronicles 20 Also, in the Old Testament, there is the Rephaim or Rephaites, and the context describes them as giants. so, where did they come from?
2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 1: 6 tell us of a group of angels who left their first estate and are locked in darkness. Many other fallen angels we battle including Satan are on this earth 2 Corinthians 11:14-15. But these angels are locked in darkness until judgment, and we see in Revelation 9:11 they have a king. These angels had to do something far greater than rebelling against God, my understanding is they adulterated God's creation, we see how corrupt it got.
We know from Jude and 2 Peter angels sinned, kept not their first estate, and left their habitation. Estate means condition, status, and dominion, and habitation means residence or dwelling place. I understand how many takes Matthew 22:30 and Mark 12:25 but Jesus is not referring to sex He is saying when we are resurrected, we will be like the angels in heaven who are immortal. We are mortal, we have to marry and reproduce when we are resurrected, we will be raised immortal same as the angels no more need to marry and reproduce, and we will be on the earth not heaven.
We see angels come down on earth that have bodies, they can eat and drink, Genesis 18:1-8 and other places like Hebrews 13:2. To me the angels who left their estate is where these giants came from, and we see when Israel went into the promised land God wiped out the giants or had them kill them all even the children.
God bless,
RLW
"Thou shalt have no other gods before me." But Mashiac said Mark 12:29
"And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
" Mark 12:30
"And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment."
Clearly this is a Law given by Moses in Deuteronomy 6:4
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
" Deuteronomy 6:5
"And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might."
If you believe that Mashiac only gave the 10 Commandments, what Commandment is Mark 12:29-30 cause He said its the first.
Malachi 2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?
Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
1 John 2:22-23 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
Philippians 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Acts 10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Luke 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
God bless,
RLW
St Mark gives us the v.40 almost identical with that of Matthew ch.23 but the former uses it a point of departure in order to illustrate in real time of a widow parting with her only livelihood. "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation."(23:14). How truth reaches a congregation when the scribes and Pharisee teach is different than the widow whose penury offered no stumbling block from exercising faith. Jesus "And beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much."
The widow "but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living" places her life squarely upon whom it belongs. It catches the eye of our Savior.
In the Parable of the Rich Fool he had all the worldly goods but lacked the good sense. He was not rich towards God. So God tells him, " Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?"( Luke 12:20) Jesus commends the poor widow who exercised faith most wisely. The scribes and Pharisee as we are familiar with the term applied 'active' faith so the poor and needy part with their living, in expectations of a windfall. Jesus calls their shepherding as 'devouring' instead.
God sent his only begotten Son in order to give whosoever believed in him, everlasting life. Jesus also tells how anyone may do the work of God. It can only be with Jesus, "Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?/Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."( John 6:28-29)
This is faith where the poor widow worked with God and for her livelihood she did not have to put on the mind of the scribes and Pharisees, devouring the gullible among their audience. For the faith of the widow was set in heavenly places with the Son.
"And Jesus answered and said, while he taught in the temple, How say the scribes that Christ is the son of David?"(v.35). The scribes as mentioned here is a generic name for those who interpret the Law but they do not consider they are bound by it. "All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not." For they says, and they do not."(Matt.23:2-3). Matthew is referring to the scribes and the Pharisees who sit in Moses' seat. It is a metaphor for spiritual authority of the Law. Isaiah gives us a throne which is the ultimate authority "The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool."(Is.66:1)
Mark gives 'the woe to ye' discourse in Ch.23 as part of his doctrine which explains why the word of God is a two-edged sword (He.4:12).The Gospel is for salvation and if it is neglected it shall prove unto damnation. "And he said unto them in his doctrine," is consequential since it is the eternal word. In our times we could call what the scribes indulged was in Jesus talk. The saying of Jesus "but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not," is a sane advice for Christians who would want to live a godly life.
Jesus.
In vv.35-37 Jesus asks,"How say the scribes that Christ is the son of David?"The scribes erred in their textual criticism by omitting the intent and the integrity of the Psalm 110:1 This is what literal approach does. What they threw out is the everlasting covenant were seven days pendent on the day decreed for the Son. Along with it goes the significance of the Lamb slain, (Ps.2:7; Re.13:8) What happened in a megachurch where The elders had publicly disciplined a woman for refusing to take back her husband owes to their lack of understanding the word. As it turned out, the woman's fears proved true, and her husband went to prison for child molestation and abuse. The church never retracted its discipline or apologised in the 20+ years since.
St Mark gives us two commandments which shall explain what keeps the kingdom of God together. Merriam -Webster explains the scribe as a member of a learned class in ancient Israel through New Testament times studying the Scriptures and serving as copyists, editors, teachers, and jurists. One of their class, who was present when Jesus put to silence the Sadducees had a question to ask. He would have pored over the texts in order to interpret all the law and the prophets wanted to tempt Jesus as St Matthew puts it. That the ten commandments could be reduced to two must have come as a surprise to him. Never in his understanding had this truth dawned as to what Jesus signified. As the Lord from heaven the Decalogue began from one ("God is one") and also ended with him. This made both heaven and the earth on single yardstick in the matter of fulfilling the will of God. God is a Spirit and without its sovereignty and without obeying it a many may make it his business to preach but is an ignoramus as the Pharisees and the scribes who were out to destroy Jesus who was the fulfillment of the Law. When God sent his Son Jesus was a sign to which Prophet Isaiah had predicted (Is.7:14). They also heard him deliver the doctrine of hid Father which we know as the Sermon on the Mount.
The writer to the Hebrews place the role of the Son, "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,/Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son," (He.1:1-2). In their opposition what did the ten in the Decalogue meant? They were judged already. The two commandments represented the deity and humanity of the Son. "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."(Matt.22:40). The Word as the sound and as a sign made the kingdom of God work. Their questions were to no avail because faith without works is dead. The discreet answer of the scribe is in "with all your heart, with all your soul etc., v.33
Looking over the horizon I am suddenly made aware of the controversy; like today's earthquakes in our part of the country which if were over open water would cause a Tsunami (if they were a lot stronger). It seems necessary to navigate through the seas in regard to what VERSION of scripture we should use; but I will swim out far enough and; as with an undertow attempt to go sideways as not to be dragged under.
Okay; facing it head on; I think most of us agree the KJV is the best study version of scripture to use; and I simply will leave all the aftershocks of the debate a couple months back about those dogmatic that it is the only inspired version of scripture for others to bring up as it seems inevitable that it will. I simply want to repeat that ancient Greek in particular has MORE THAN ONE descriptive adjective that can be used in English to get the full meaning thus it CANNOT be translated word for word without jumping around and causing much confusion. I will also say (risking the uproar) that sometimes other versions may have another word that helps to more clearly describe the original text. Now; if we can get past what I hope to be a 90 second event and move on....
Other sources can be used (commentaries; concordances; history books; sermon readings and interpretations of scripture) but enough can usually be understood in the Bible that we have at least a fair comprehension of God's Word. His commands are not grievous ( 1 John 5:3) and that should also mean they aren't overly complex to understand; cumbersome or voluminous. The concept of loving God and our neighbor as ourself ( Mark 12:30-31) sums up the law and should be the primary motivation; mindset and state of our heart and soul when the love of Christ constrains us ( 2 Cor. 5:14-19).
Starting with concordances; I am probably going to leave it to the audience to recommend the top ones. I have found some Bibles have cross references that are baffling.
"Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him."
The two worlds of the Spirit and of the body have only language which is faith. (He.11:3) When the Son said,A body hast prepared me it made the DNA between the world made to appear and the world unseen as the only proof of paternity. Thus the body of the Son is the visible image of the invisible God. ( Col 1:15) In the Parable of the Tares we have the good seed and the tares which can be known by their fruits. "Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?"(Matt.7:16)
So God is a Spirit sent his Son as the word become flesh.He did not ask the impossible when he went to the fig tree. The glory of the tree with seed in itself was determined according to the everlasting covenant, and the blessing of man in 'our likeness' connected as with the body God gave both. It was on the basis of faith and not by the will of the tares, source of which is by courtesy of the enemy who slipped in while the world slept. Caesars have come and gone, none of them has shown their glory endured. Had these men faith in God as the rewarder of the just?
In the hypothetical question the Sadducees put to Jesus vv.19-23 they were in error since the concept of marriage instituted by the tradition of their fathers was not founded on truth. "And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?/For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven."(vv.24-25) In our times by false shepherds who dismiss works from their faith and espouse politicians as the Herodians, blame the victims for refusing to live with child molesters and perverts? Excommunicating Eileen and condoning the abuser if how the elders read the word of God. The tares shall continue but how long?
"And they send unto him certain of the Pharisees and of the Herodians, to catch him in his words."Earlier when John the Baptist arrived at the scene, stirring up great many people who came to be baptized at his hand we read,"And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?" John categorically rejected any notion that he was the Christ. It did not stop there."Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us."( John 1:19-22). Now the chief priests scribes and various sects who came to Jesus, "and they wanted to catch him in his words" firstly simulated fear for God, "They say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth" the same method that Satan employed to tempt Jesus and he also began," he said, If thou be the Son of God, command". The playbook of Satan is for whosoever who would want to be a power player in the world and the Herodians were one such in the time of Jesus, and in our times we have their ilk appearing in droves behind their candidate and sets Christian Visibility Day for other reason than they are sent. It is the spirit of wickedness at work, "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming."(2 The.2:8). For those who abide in Christ and seek to see the light in his light does Christian visibility Day make any sense? St Paul is clear in warning, "In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."(2 Co.4:4)
Jesus warned of this wicked and adulterous generation. Evangelicals want a sign and and Jesus refers to the son of perdition,Matt.24:15. the sign of our times Desolation is sure to come
St Mark cites Jesus referring the quote from the Psalm (118:22-23) which is identical in the gospel of St Matthew. The parable of rock is with direct reference to the judgment which we have it executed by an angel from above causing the fall of Babylon.(Re.18:21) Israel's failure is symptomatic of the wicked nations that have no interest in giving glory to the sovereign Lord of heaven and the earth. So they shall be judged with all other nations for their failure to produce fruits thereof. When they least expect God shall take the vineyard from the miserable husbandmen and give to others, Thus the parable centers about the Son who also is the Rock of Ages. In his rejection Israel committed a fatal error and it is to which the above mentioned quote from the Psalm alludes.
"Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes?/Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof." (Matt.21:42-43)
Mark gives us the answer of Jesus, "What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do? he will come and destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others"(v.9). St Matthew sets him as a symbol, as the rock of offense and as the stone of stumbling. "And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder." (21:44)
"And they sought to lay hold on him, but feared the people: for they knew that he had spoken the parable against them: and they left him, and went their way." (v.12) The chief priests scribes and the Pharisees would try to destroy Jesus somehow.
Part 1 Trinity discussion
To start; I used to have a similar understanding of the Trinity doctrine but over time it has changed, and I am still studying it. I do not consider myself part of any group or denomination other than a believer and follower of Jesus. I feel we should inspire each other to study in prayer for the truth and to be open to the Holy Spirit to unveil the truth as we know nothing.
With me, it started with two verses, 2 Corinthians 11:3-4, I contemplated these verses for a long time, it was like they stuck in my mind unanswered. In my study of the Trinity, I found out how it developed and how many deaths it caused even after the Reformation, and the questions I asked in Churches, many could not explain it and said it is a mystery that man cannot comprehend.
Is God and has He always been one solitary person?
Deut. 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD, Mark 12:29 and as said in 1 Cor. 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. My understanding is God the Father is eternal He has always been and will always be Psalms 90:2. God is Spirit, if a person means He has a will, emotions, the ability to speak, rationalize, self-awareness, to have a relationship with His creation, love, hate, etc. yes one person.
Before creation was, He always and only alone, without anyone to love?
What was before creation in Scripture we have no writings or information, Scripture tells us the hosts of heaven were before the creation of the earth and the galaxies, Job 38:4-7. How long before the physical world and universe we see we do not know. God's plan He declared the end from the beginning, Isaiah 46:9-10. I may be wrong, but God has never been alone inside Himself, time nor space cannot contain who He is, the beginning of His plan was Jesus.
See part 2
Just me, seems there are fewer discussions lately on this site and Momsage's post suggested discussion. My understanding of discussions is brothers and sisters sharing their understanding of a subject not to belittle or to prove one as being wrong, but by sharing our understanding of a subject that will encourage each other to study in prayer for the truth.
What is faith? We see in Hebrews 11:1,6 We also have Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
We are to have faith but our faith cannot be based on the word of man where we can be deceived and taken out of the way. Our faith must come from the word of God guided by His Spirit and His word is the Holy Scripture, He has given us.
This one subject is based on the word of man, nowhere in Scripture does it tell us we must believe or have faith in a triune God, but the opposite, Deuteronomy 6:4 Mark 12:29 1 Timothy 2:5, and many more. "God made us a living soul" Soul is the Hebrew word nephesh, a living being, any living being, every air-breathing creature is a nephesh, a living being/soul.
Genesis 1:26 many apply the Trinity to this verse but then we must ignore verse 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. This could also easily be first-person plural, like mom says, let us make tacos and then she is the one who makes the tacos. If we lived before 489 AD, before the Trinity doctrine was made the foundational belief of Christianity, and the punishment of heresy, how would we take this verse?
If we walk in the world we will perish, if we walk in the Spirit our faith is in Jesus and our hope is as Jesus was resurrected in His glorified body so we shall also be resurrected in our glorified body into eternal life with Him.
God bless,
RLW
Thank you again, from my heart, the truth is my search not to offend. It all goes back to one verse when I read it, it stood out in my heart, Corinthians 11:4. I know I am alone here on this, but saying Jesus is part of the Triune God, who eternally exists and expresses himself as three distinct persons with one essence all three co-equal. One God in three persons-the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. This to me denies the Son, 1 John 2:23
What I see in the Bible is the relationship between the Father and the Son, the Son is obedient to the Father. Jesus said His Father is greater than Him, John 14:28. Jesus has said the Father is His God, John 20:17 Revelation 3:12.
The Bible defines God's nature as eternal and unchanging; there is only one throne of God and through the Bible, only the Father is on the throne until the Father raised His Son from the dead and placed Him on His right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, there is nothing about the Holy Spirit.
As we see in Revelation Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple and the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof, Rev. 21:22-23 no Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God is the Holy Spirit, not another person.
Jesus confirmed there is only one true God, Mark 12:28-34, in Jesus's prayer to His Father said in John 17:3. All the greetings in the New Testament are from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, Galatians 1:3 Ephesians 6:23 1 Thessalonians 1:1 2 Timothy 1:2 Titus 1:4 2 John 1:3 and more but no Holy Spirit.
If the Trinity true and is so important, why is it not once taught in Scripture? God cannot change and God cannot die, so how do we understand John 3:16 if God the Father did not send his actual begotten Son to die for our sins? We see Jesus also had His own will, Luke 22:42.
God bless,
RLW
Part 2
God made Jesus Lord, Acts 2:36, made is thee Greek word ginomai that means to come into being, to happen, to become. This was foreordained before the foundation of the world and this Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world, 1 Peter 1:19-20 Revelation 13:8, foreordained the Greek word proginosko means to know beforehand to appoint or decree beforehand.
I see too many Scriptures that do not agree with the doctrine. I hope this makes sense. This is Scripture without man's knowledge or wisdom 1 Corinthians 1:22 Jeremiah 10:10 10 Malachi 2:10 Mark 12:32
Paul wrote these; Romans 3:30 Romans 15:6 1 Corinthians 8:6 2 Corinthians 1:3 2 Corinthians 11:31 Ephesians 1:3 Ephesians 1:17 Ephesians 3:14 Ephesians 4:6 Colossians 1:3 1 Timothy 2:5
Peter wrote this; 1 Peter 1:3
These are Jesus's words Himself; Matthew 27:46 Same in Mark 15:34 John 14:28 John 17:3 John 20:17 Revelation 3:12
What this says to me, there is only one true God who is the God and Father of Jesus,
These Scriptures are clear without our wisdom or knowledge do not agree with the doctrine of the Trinity. I do thank you and again I hope you do not consider me a Gnostic that would be sad, they are more of a philosophical like the immortal soul came from Greek philosophy, I am believer and follower of Jesus our Lord and savior.
God bless,
RLW
Part 2,
John 17:5 I may not be able to answer this satisfactorily, but I do not think Jesus was in heaven other than in God's plan in God's thoughts as the word logos is the expression of a thought. When Jesus was baptized, He was anointed without measure by the Holy Spirit/Ghost, John 3:34 at that point Jesus was given power and authority John 5:26-27 and then Matthew 28:18.
All through the New Testament Jesus said what He said, what He did, and the works that were done was God His Father and not Him, John 14:10, it was the word of God, God was manifested in Jesus everything was given to Jesus, He did not have it before God the Father gave it to Him.
God dwelt in Jesus and Jesus in Him, I feel Jesus became the Tabernacle of God, as His name shall be called Emmanuel God with us, same as Jesus told Peter, John 14:9. Jesus had the full measure of the Holy Spirit/Ghost this is why He said what He said in John 14:17 they saw the Holy Spirit/Ghost because it was with them in Him that gave Jesus the power for God to do the works/miracles.
This was in the prayer Jesus was praying to His Father just before He went to the cross, Jesus was asking His Father to glorify Him so that He may glorify God so that we might know the only true God. John17:1-3 Mark 12:29.
Colossians 1:15-17 I will try on this one, "in the image" is a mirror-like representation that Jesus was, like He said to Peter if you have seen me, you have seen God. Man cannot see God nor look on Him, John 1:18 Jesus was the faithful witness Revelation 1:5 and a witness tells or reveals the truth, and Jesus showed us the truth of who God is the only true God.
Jesus was the first and everything in God's thoughts and mind, Jesus was there in God's mind but was not sent until the fullness of time, Ephesians 1:10. I feel that is why Jesus said over and over it is not me but He who sent me.
I know we may differ, but I hope I am showing honestly my understanding.
See part 3.
God bless,
RLW
I understand your passion and I believe you may have misunderstood parts of my post; I am sorry. Your first question is yes, I am a follower of Jesus. Jesus answered the scribe and said, Mark 12: 29-30 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And yes, I do, but am I perfect, NO.
I do not belong to any denomination; I have attended many denominations but Catholic and I am in my 70s and there is not a church close to me now that I feel comfortable going to. John 1:1 I will say my understanding is different and too long to explain in this reply maybe another thread.
What I meant about Matthew 28:19 is in this verse Jesus told them to go baptizing people in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. People use this to support the Trinity doctrine but nowhere in the New Testament is anyone baptized in the name of the three, people were only baptized in the name of Jesus not that there was no baptizing in the New Testament, but they were only baptized in the name of Jesus.
As you listed Acts 4:10-12 only by the name of Jesus and "none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. And that name is who they baptized people in the New Testament not of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. Now in many churches, a person must believe in the Trinity for salvation, and if they do not confess the Trinity, they are not a Christian. Can you show me where that was said or was taught anywhere in the New Testament?
I am sorry we do not agree on this, and I hope this helps you understand my last post, and may we be guided by the Holy Spirit in our study for the truth, we are one body.
God bless,
RLW
Mark 12:28-34
Then one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, perceiving that He had answered them well, asked Him, "Which is the first commandment of all?" Jesus answered him, "The first of all the commandments is: 'Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is one. And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.' This is the first commandment. And the second, like it, is this: 'You shall love your neighbour as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these." So the scribe said to Him, "Well said, Teacher. You have spoken the truth, for there is one God, and there is no other but He. And to love Him with all the heart, with all the understanding, with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love one's neighbor as oneself, is more than all the whole burnt offerings and sacrifices." Now when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, He said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God."
Trust in Jesus and all will be well; even in regard the Enemy. The Enemy is currently in panic-mode, as he knows his time is short and his days are numbered. All the horrors of the world and the attacks on the minds of children from certain 'proud' folk is all part of the (already failed) plan to undermine the Kingdom. God's Kingdom is already here. This world was bought and paid for with Jesus' Blood. The enemy has no power over those that are saved. So, have no fear, God's Kingdom is here. Yes, there's going to be a bit of trouble, but everything is going according to God's Plan and all will be to His Glory. Hold fast, enjoy your new-found Life and Trust In Jesus. Blessings to You.
As Hemorlan replied, 'Acts is the transitional book (rightly dividing) OT & NT. For the OT laws were for the Jews i.e. before Jesus DBR (death, burial & resurrection). NT is for All Jews & Gentiles. Christ shed His blood & died for All who choose to believe & All sin past, present & future. Making us All one in salvation.
As you point out, Romans 15:4..Paul is stating 'For what was written in the past was so we learn from past mistakes & come out unscathed by the world around us. To be strengthened in our hope/faith through patients for the evil around us & be comforted knowing God was w/them then as He is w/us now'. As for 2 Tim3:15, that's partial scripture & is best interpreted/understood if you read entire meaning not merely one verse, 2 Tim 3:12-17.
As for Matt 5:17-20, Jesus is speaking to the disciples on how things are related/differ tween the OT(Gen-Acts12) & how things will be upon His DBR to come (NT) Acts 13-The Revelation. In Matt:17, He didn't come to destroy anyone/anything but to fulfill prophecy of His Father. God does not make us choose Him, We have 'freewill'. Satan on the other hand will continue to torcher us & those around us till we choose evil. Put on the Armor of God Eph 6:10-18, being guarded from satan devouring souls simply for he knows his Eternity & is angry wanting revenge. Loving God w/all our being, Mark 12:28-33 & of course John 3:12-21. It's not hard as prosperity preachers would have you believe. I for one enjoy learning truth. With His blood, Christ Himself said it best .. "It is finished".
I'm glad that you are doing well. I am doing much better. Recovering from hand surgery now.