Isaiah
King James Version (KJV)
Discuss Isaiah 14 Page 4
Viewing page: 4 of 8
< Previous Discussion Page Next Discussion Page >
Do you have a Bible comment or question?
Posting comments is currently unavailable due to high demand on the server.
Please check back in an hour or more. Thank you for your patience!
GOD did not create TIME in Genesis 1, or around 6.000 years ago, no, absolutely no.
What prevails is the Word of GOD, do you agree? The WORD is GOD.
Proverbs 8:v.22-23 and 30-31CJB, among others: (CJB-Complete Jewish Bible)
22 "Adonai made me as the beginning of his way,
the FIRST of His ancient works.
23 I was appointed before the world,
before the start, before the earth's beginnings.
30 I was with Him as someone He could trust.
For me, every DAY was pure delight,
as I played in His presence ALL THE TIME.
31 playing everywhere on His earth,
and delighting to be with humankind.
Many times before the GOD's Plan of retoration of all things, as was revealed to Moses, i.e. Genesis, there was a multitude in the Garden of Eden ruled by a Cherub, the son of morning, but today is the sosns of perdition, the man of sin. Isaiah 14:v.12 to 15 reveal:
12 "How did you come to fall from the heavens,
morning star, SON of the dawn?
How did you come to be cut to the GROUND,
conqueror of NATIONS?
13 You thought to yourself, 'I will scale the heavens,
I will raise my throne above God's stars. (God's stars? Read Daniel 3)
I will sit on the Mount of ASSEMBLY
far away in the NORTH. (In the NORTH? Psalm 48:v.2 CJB - (2) beautiful in its elevation, the joy of all the earth,
Mount Tziyon, in the far NORTH, the City of the Great King. See, the City of the Great King is in the NORTH)
14 I will rise past the tops of the clouds,
I will make myself like the Most High.'
15 "Instead you are brought down to Sh'ol,
to the uttermost depths of the pit.
GOD - the Word is GOD - has not begining , neither ending, GOD is from Eternity to Eternity, JESUS is the beginning and the ending, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Gen.1:2-This Scriptures were revealed to Moses around 2.500 years after Adam, beteween 2nd and 3rd Day.
Genesis 1:v.2 And the earth was without form,...
See, GOD was not speaking of the geometric form of the Planet Earth to Moses, which He "hangeth upon nothing"- Job 26:v.7-, no, absolutely, it because the geometric form of the Planet Earth around 6.000 years ago was the same it is today, of course. NOTE: To say the Planet Earth was without geometric form based in Genesis 1:v. 2 is ridiculous.
By the way, GOD had planted a wonderful Garden in Eden were a multitude was ruled by a powerful Cherub- Ezekiel 28:v.13-15 and Isaiah 14:v.12-12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!...
After the rebellion, the inhabitants of Eden, ruler by the fallen Cherub, were transformed into dust, dust of the earth, except the spirit, evidently ( Jude 1:v.6), and the earth did get consequently formless and empty, spiritually, everything was without form but not physically.
Please, re-study your LITERAL conceptions, many of them ridiculous, and cause a lot of mochery. The letter kills.
To the only Wise GOD our Saviour, be Glory and Majesty, Dominion and Power, both now and ever. Amen.
and void;
and darkness was upon the face of the deep.
And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night.
And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Christian's must see that we constantly live in the grip of chaos and tyranny? They are the first to say that we live in the end-times, but are too oversold to fully realize what that means. God despises this nation. Isaiah 14:9 cometh:a spot has been reserved for America at the sixth trumpet, the second woe. Revelation 18 awaits.
How many "WATCHMEN" have put God before country? Who has heard what the prophets said about Mystery Babylon, and the merchants of Babylon Proper, sitting across the pond? The answer is very few with the proud saying, "I live in the greatest country ever, and God wouldn't destroy His people". Read it for yourself, God destroys His backsliding people. The house of Israel has become Mystery Babylon, while the house of Judah has become converts of Japheth, Revelation 2:9
The people know no better than support and defend this bully in the name of patriotism. The iron and clay will show no mercy in the hour of thy visitation. When they fan the land, the stubble will defiantly wonder what they possibly did wrong to deserve desolation. On that day, and in that hour, I will die happy knowing that America's NWO was "taken" in their attempt to rule the world from Jerusalem for a thousand years.
I believe we have a problem here: Satan's fall is alluded to in Isaiah 14:12-15 & Ezekiel 28:12-19. And then we have Job 1:6,7. So the questions that arise are: at what point was Satan cast down to the Earth & were there two castings down? One, which caused Genesis 1:2 & another that brought on Genesis 3:1-15? For, if the first beautiful Earth was corrupted by reason of Satan's involvement, then where did he go between the first & second creations of Earth, since he lost his position in Heaven, no doubt?
Does Satan's "walking to & fro in the Earth & walking up & down in it" apply to the second creation of Earth, where we find him all over the Earth, including Eden, & then again some years later during the lifetime of Job? If that's the case, then he being wholly evil, walking all over this globe, causing mankind's fall & causing Job his ultimate test, surely must indicate that such evil must breed evil, not only to those tested but to all of 'groaning' creation so affected?
Therefore, looking at the Scriptures given by the Lord for us to work with, to have a two-Earth belief (once unformed & then reformed), becomes very difficult to acquiesce to, for Satan's position in either world, must mean a corruption of that world; i.e. if Satan was the reason for the first deformation, the reformation of the second must be likewise affected. Or, if God cleaned up the first then why permit Satan to be around to also affect the second? To be around again, just to test mankind's fidelity to Him, seems a weak reason in light of the extent of damage that was in Satan's power. The Lord be with you.
This prophetic story continues and eventually comes full circle:
( Isaiah 14:2) And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.
What group of people did the house of Israel (Ephraim & Manasseh) take as their captives, whose captives they once were for four hundred thirty years? ( Exodus 12:41) Who are the descendants of Egypt that were held slaves when England & America gained prominence?
God spoke of the Word to become flesh in the future: Genesis 3:15
"And I will put enmity between thee (Satan), and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it (Jesus Christ) shall bruise thy head (Satans legal power), and thou shalt bruise his heel. (the nail through Jesus's feet)."
When Jesus died for the sins of all mankind on the Cross, he fulfilled the Old Covenant, and ratified the New Covenant, with his blood sacrifice as the Lamb of God. Satan didn't know that, or he would have prevented it.
Jesus was resurrected on the 3rd Day. Satan was stripped of the power he had stolen from First Adam. Second Adam is Jesus. Satan has no authority over Gods born again children. Only what we give him by sinning and not asking to be forgiven. 1 John.
Jesus descended into hell's prisons, took the KEYS of Death, Hell and the Grave; out of Satans hand. Then Jesus emptied the prison.
The Godhead (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) live outside of Time; and they Live inside of Time.
"In Beginning," ( Gen. 1:1) is when God began the ticking of Time.
We might crab at God, "Why did YOU let this disaster happen?! God has a will, He gave free will to mankind to use for good or evil. As a Created being, Satan has an evil will. He does all the things we blame God for. Isaiah 14:12-16
We all need to remember that. Be wary and pray daily to God: Thy Will Be Done.
In Job, we see that Satan attacked Job's family first. He stirred up an F-5 tornado against them. Let's be informed "who" is responsible for what.
God is Love, God is Good. He has made all Provision for us. He even gave His only begotten Son, so that we may live eternally, IF we accept Jesus as Savior and Lord? Take your SELF off the throne of your heart; and ask Jesus to be the Lord of your Life. Be conscious of WHO has your best interests at heart.
Mishael
You've shared some great thoughts & Scriptures there & indeed "the lust of the flesh, & the lust of the eyes & the pride of life" ( 1 John 2:16), is the standard for the majority, instead of doing "justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God" ( Micah 6:8).
As Jesus spoke to the religious leaders, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do", it is only natural that those without the God of Heaven will cleave to the god of this world ( 2 Corinthians 4:4) who holds the hearts of men in his grip. As Satan's singular desire was to "ascend above the heights of the clouds (and to) be like the most High" ( Isaiah 14:14), so it is also found in his children that they too would behave like gods believing that no God exists, bar themselves.
One can only imagine that if societal laws didn't exist (however weak & often mis-applied they might be) & without the presence of Christ's Church & the outworking of the Holy Spirit through her, what would be the extent of man's lusts & wickedness & how unrestrained his sins would be, that would speedily bring about another Noahic-type deluge. Yet God's next judgement will be by fire ( 2 Peter 3:7) as His Anger can no longer be withheld. May the life-changing, spirit-renewing Gospel continue to go out, pulling many out of the fiery deceptions & snares of the Devil ( Jude 23). Keep that holy fire burning, Sister.
Jesus was Semitic (Shem), with color and tone similar to their Arab cousins
Today's Jews are Ashkenazi ( Genesis 10:2-3) they are 7th century Khazar converts of Japheth. ( Revelation 2:9)
( Genesis 9:27) God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
Sounds like Canaan will be a slave to his two brothers ( Isaiah 14:1-2)
God spoke of the Word to become flesh (future) in Genesis 3:15
"15 And I will put enmity between thee (Satan), and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it (Jesus Christ) shall bruise thy head (Satans legal power), and thou shalt bruise his heel. (the nail through Jesus's feet)."
When Jesus died for the sins of all mankind on the Cross, he fulfilled the Old Covenant, and ratified the New Covenant, with his blood sacrifice as the Lamb of God. Satan didn't know that or he would have prevented it.
Jesus was resurrected on the 3rd Day. Satan was stripped of the power he had stolen from First Adam. Second Adam is Jesus. Satan has no authority over Gods born again children. Only what we give him by sinning and not asking to be forgiven. 1 John.
Jesus descended into hell's prisons, took the KEYS of Death, Hell and the Grave; out of Satans hand. Then Jesus emptied hell.
The Godhead (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) live outside of Time; and they Live inside of Time.
"In Beginning," ( Gen. 1:1) is when God began the ticking of Time.
We might crab at God, "Why did YOU let this disaster happen?! God has a will, He gave free will to mankind to use for good or evil; as a Created being, Satan has an evil will. He does all the things we blame God for. Isaiah 14:12-16
We all need to remember that. Be wary and pray daily to God: Thy Will Be Done.
In Job, we see that Satan attacked Job's family first. He stirred up an F-5 tornado against them.
Let's be informed who is responsible for what.
God is Love, God is Good. He has made all Provision for us. He even gave His only begotten Son, so that we may live eternally, IF we accept Jesus as Savior and Lord? Take your SELF off the throne of your heart; and ask Jesus to be the Lord of your Life. Be conscious of WHO has your best interests in his heart. Amen?
Mishael
Give NO PLACE to the devil.
In Texas we say Hi, Hey, Howdy, Hola, Nice to see you, Long time no see, Dude, Dudette, and numerous others.
I was saved out of the Occult. Satan loves for people to give him any kind of credence or glory. Isaiah 14:11 says that Satan is wormy. I saw a vision of hell. You don't want to see that! It's the definition of Terror; it is eternity of Waiting for the final Judgment and being cast into HELL.
Keep your eyes on Jesus and don't give "place" to Satan. If you think Halloween is a national holiday, you are deceived. If you have that stuff stored in your garage.. it's an open door for demons to make themselves at home.
If you're a Christian and you don't read your Bible; don't have a working knowledge of scripture, or are unable to memorize any scripture: demons can just walk into your house and torment you at your weakest points of entry.
Furnish YOU (your house) with deep layers of scripture. Ephesians 6. That's your SWORD!!
It's 2 edged. It cuts up the devils going in and coming out. It dispatches them to outer darkness IF you speak it? Believe me, "go on and quit picking on me", isn't going to get the demons out of your life.
Tearing apart a word like hello is not useful. Try ripping the head off a demon with a well placed "IT IS WRITTEN" (add a scripture).
They should run for the hills every time the feet of a child of God hits the floor each morning.
We have Jesus's AUTHORITY and Power to make them leave. Learn spiritual warfare. Parents Protect your kids.
That dusty Bible is the Sword of the Spirit. It's more lethal than any weapon available. To you gamers...spiritual warfare is the Real game of Thrones. Don't be deceived.
Has anyone ever done a Word study on the names of satan? Liar, Deceiver, Murderer, Adversary, Accuser, Serpent. Wicked One, Tempter, Afflictor
Naturally, I disagree with your interpretation of the scripture and the assumptions made.
I believe the argument of once saved always saved contradicts itself. Here's how:
1. Someone believes God gave them freewill.
2. Someone believes all Christians are already 'saved' and that status never changes.
3. Then they are asked about Luke 12:10 blasphemy of the holy ghost.
4. They then claim it doesn't apply to Christians, that Christians can't, that they don't even have the freewill to sin, despite many documented cases of Christians doing exactly that both in the Bible and in the world today. Isaiah 14:12-14 shows that even angels in heaven have freewill to sin and blaspheme.
Christians still need to face judgment day like everyone else. Only after can someone be actually saved. If we genuinely follow Christ we can be assured of salvation, but the Bible warns us plenty of times to obey, to run the race, to persevere, to abide in the doctrine of Christ 2 John 1:8-9, it paints a much different picture than that I get from others who claim its ok to sin, that you can't sin, that you can be in the world and do whatever you want with zero penalty, and don't even have to worry about turning your back on Christ or blaspheming, because you can't do that. That's the opposite message of what Jesus said. Hebrews 6:4, John 14:15, Matthew 5:13, MATTHEW 7:23.
If once saved always saved is true, does that mean Christians can commit mass murder and still go to heaven? violence? rape? blasphemy? Or that their freewill is restricted so it's impossible for that to happen? Judas betrayed Jesus, and many Christians leave the faith and reject Jesus, unfortunately. There's a forum on Reddit called ex-Christian if you don't believe it. So, are all ex-Christians who reject Jesus still saved then?
Which is more likely: that satan, the father of lies is deceiving Christians into obeying God more than necessary, or that committing unlimited sin is ok?
[9] Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations. [10] All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us? [11] Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee. [12] How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! [13] For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: [14] I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. [15] Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Go ahead and tell us your thoughts here. I can't extract specific answers from the text.
Maybe you can explain the dichotomy of the devil who shows up in the garden, Genesis 3, from the "morning star" that weakened the nations, Isaiah 14:12-15 and aspired to rise to heaven, from the one kicked out of heaven, Revelation 12:7-9.
I need semblance to draw a rational conclusion on what's happening with satan's tenure. Is this the nature of inequity, allowing the spirit of satan to continually spoil life?
Jesus calls the devil "the God of this world", 2 Corinthians 4:4. Does the devil's spirit reside on earth where he works his loom, or does he do so from heaven, or both? Has he already been kicked out of heaven, and Rev 12:7-9 is purely symbolic?
Today we face the same problems Adam and Eve faced in the garden, nothing has changed. I have a feeling you can shed light on this.
I am thrilled you read the OT, it is rich with details. It's like 12 guys telling an insurance agent their version of the accident. Just for the fun of it, in a category called: Know your prophets:
Isaiah walked 3 years naked and barefoot.
And the LORD said, Like as my servant Isaiah hath walked naked and barefoot three years for a sign and wonder upon Egypt and upon Ethiopia; So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.
Ezekiel 4, God told them to eat human dung, but the prophet talked God into eating cow dung as a sign of Northern kingdom's Assyrian captivity.
Then said I, Ah Lord GOD! behold, my soul hath not been polluted: for from my youth up even till now have I not eaten of that which dieth of itself, or is torn in pieces; neither came there abominable flesh into my mouth. Then he said unto me, Lo, I have given thee cow's dung for man's dung, and thou shalt prepare thy bread therewith. Ezekiel 4:14-15
What do you make of Isaiah 14:2 Egypt and slavery connection, both 400 years?
1) There is the 6th trumpet, day of the Lord (named for Jesus), is punishment on a vile world from the Almighty. A day responsible for 1/3rd of humanities demise. Revelation 15: Jesus says "Behold, I come as a thief".......to lay the land desolate.
Those that dwell in heaven despise Mystery Babylon and Babylon proper to death. Joel gives a spectacular account of the missile strike on Babylon (America) Joel 2: 1-11, while on the other side of the world, in the self-same hour, Israel is invaded by the beast army and taken, Luke 21:20-24. Hell from beneath will rise up to greet Babylon at its departure, Isaiah 14:9 The current system will be torn down, and will be replaced with hell on earth.
2) Then there is the 7th trumpet slaughter featuring a transfigured Jesus, with a new name only He knows, Revelation 19:12, who defeats anti-christ's fractured beast army. It is Jesus returning with His army of resurrected saints to take possession of the earth. Revelation 14:20 The blood will be up to the horses bridle (in the valley).
In both trumpets, it is Jesus doling out judgment on an evil world, and in His Godly capacity. America and Israel have been poisoned by satan, enough so for God to commence and fulfill all the words of his servants, the prophets.
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be ""LIKE"" the most High.
( Lucifer wanted to be ""LIKE"" GOD. I think he wanted the glory and the worship.) " This may carry a different meaning than want to be God" This brings it home.
Ezekiel 28:12-15, Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
We can run to the Lord in prayer & commit our folly to Him; or turn to the Word & allow the Spirit to minister God's Message & Words of healing to our minds; or even do as the Apostle Paul suggests in Philippians 4:8,9, to set our minds (our thoughts) on things that are honest, just, pure, etc. Why do this? We are effectively covering over & ridding nasty, disturbing thoughts with thoughts that bring on peace, stability & purity to one's heart - i.e. getting our minds back onto God's track & dwelling on things that will lift up our hearts towards God rather than weigh them down to our hurt.
You can also read in Ezekiel 28:11-19 where a similar accusation was made to the King of Tyrus, but has a wider meaning & fulfilment in Satan. So, these portions have nothing to do with Christ's resurrection & ascension.
Then in the NT, we have Matthew 10:28 & Luke 16:23, where the word for 'hell', is understood to be 'geenne', or Gehenna in Matthew, and 'ade' or Hades, in Luke's reference. I see that all of these references (OT & NT) depict a place & state of suffering. And if these are translated from the original manuscripts, I would be interested to learn what you are reading, the words used & the manuscripts they are derived from, as this can be very perplexing to us who are confined to the Bibles we have now.
And as a result of this, what is your understanding of a place of eternal suffering for the wicked: whether such a state even exists of which the Bible declares.
What translation do you recommend to get a more accurate wording?
I was wondering why both Satan and Jesus were "the morning star"
Thanks!
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
(12) How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!-The word for Lucifer is, literally, the shining one, the planet Venus, the morning star, the son of the dawn, as the symbol of the Babylonian power, which was so closely identified with astrolatry. "Lucifer" etymologically gives the same meaning, and is used by Latin poets (Tibull. i., 10, 62) for Venus, as an equivalent for the phsphoros of the Greeks. The use of the word, however, in medival Latin as a name of Satan, whose fall was supposed to be shadowed forth in this and the following verse, makes its selection here singularly unfortunate. Few English readers realise the fact that it is the king of Babylon, and not the devil, who is addressed as Lucifer. While this has been the history of the Latin word, its Greek and English equivalents have risen to a higher place, and the "morning star" has become a name of the Christ ( Revelation 22:16).
Rick,
Just curious! Where in the Bible does it say that lucifer is Satan? As you mentioned in your latest post.
Thank you,
Andrew
Isaiah 14:12 "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nation
Revelation Chapter 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.