All Discussion PAGE 665

Many blessings to you on your journey!

Hi Chris, in answer to you're question why don't I address the scriptures you quoted. First of all, I don't entirely follow what you are saying. Would you summarize the gist of your thoughts in one sentence? it would be easier for me. Second, I don't have hours of time to look everything up and thoughtfully respond.

Is this the gist of what your saying: the unsaved will be tormented eternally?

I love this site, it has taught me so much about how to live my life and how to treat others. I love living the righteous way even though I still have not committed myself completely. But I'm still learning.

Asking for strong protection and breakthrough for us and all in need.

Lord Jesus I join in asking this for Marcia, us and all in need. Thank you and praise you. In your holy name I pray. Amen.

Lord Jesus please have mercy on Rob and heal and deliver from depression. May you alone receive all the glory and praise. Amen

Matt.4:1-2 "The Number Forty"

Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil./And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.(vv.1-2)

'Then' refers to the descent of the Spirit in the form of a dove in the preceding passage.(3:16) Lucan gospel informs us that Jesus was tempted for forty days of the devil.. St Matthew lays emphasis on the manner the tempter would try to trip him up. Mark merely mentions it as matter-of-factly as a anecdote. "And immediately the spirit driveth him into the wilderness./And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him".( Mark 1:12-13). John left it out altogether. Before we go on with his ministry we present the four gospels relate to one another inextricably as the Logos aspect of the Son of man is bound with God which was with the Word. The "Word was God" ( John 1:1)

The Spirit uses 40 days to indicate the sovereignty of the Word as the Son of man handled. Four refers to cardinal directions and whether east or west south or north the Word of God stood on a firm foundation."Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his."(2 Ti.2:19) In the case of Jesus in his humanity needed preparation so he was led by the Spirit during 40 days (4x10). Before he began his ministry the same number of days as well as he was seen for 40 days by his disciples in his risen body. In short the number lays down it as a tag and applies to anyone who is taken into service. The life of Moses is tagged likewise."And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments." (Ex.34:28) Before Moses could serve the nation the number serves as a diploma of having been found adequate to serve. It is thus the Spirit led Jesus into wilderness.

Amen!!! Thank you again! Keeping you in prayer as well.

I read a lot of stuff in here hoping that it would help me cuz I'm really struggling everything sounds good here open one door three more closes illustrated that's all I'm at the end of my ropes now I guess you can say my faith is weak I do pray I talk to Jesus alone the devil knows from all my weak spots he knows I'm a wimp worked on the love that Jesus wants us to have and worked hard added it just got crushed if I'm doing this incorrect I apologize hope somebody reads this and they don't end up like me thank you

The LAMBS BOOK OF LIFE

Something amazing about that BOOK. Do you know why it's called the LAMBS BOOK OF LIFE?

It is filled with the names of those of us who have LIFE, the LIFE of the BLESSED SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST.

FULL of LIFE! Abundant LIFE! John 10:10 "The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have LIFE, and that they might have it more abundantly." What does it mean to have LIFE more abundant?

To be FULL of the HOLY SPIRIT of GOD, and to have HIS name written on our foreheads though the circumcision not made with hands Colossians 2:11 "In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:" May we endeavor to keep to HIS fullness for we are complete in HIM. Colossians 2:10

Being renewed day by day. 2 Corinthians 4:16

Our hope is in JESUS, and not in the things of this world. So, yes, we prepare, and we equip ourselves as soldiers in the army of God, prepared for battle. Yet, we lean NOT on our own strength, but on His everlasting arms, because He is our strength, our shield.

We study to show ourselves approved of GOD. For we are not those who seek honor from men, but the honor that comes from God alone, and he gives us favor. "So shalt thou find favour and good understanding in the sight of God and man." Proverbs 3:4

He is the MASTER potter, and we are the clay. May our lives be honorable unto Him, and him alone. For He alone is worthy to be praised. I magnify His name. His glorious name JESUS. All powerful is our LORD, and Savior Jesus Christ.

The grace of our Lord and Savior be with you. Amen

Please pray for me for deliverance, wisdom, strength and obedience.

To be more like Yeshua GOD.

Good morning brother Chris and all. Eternal suffering may be a forever consciousness of the Love of God, yet for ever separated from that Love. This time that we are in remains a gift to know Jesus Christ and him crucified as he is God's life. I agree that we cannot really consider the Gift by Jesus Christ without considering eternal damnation. This is part of the reason that the Kingdom of Peace is important, it keeps us present in the Lord as we are prone to wander towards another day. He must know us for us to know Him. My thoughts. Love to all.

Dear Jesse , have you read Ezekiel Ch 18 ? I'm guessing that you have :) . What does it mean to you ? In particular the last two verses . I reeeeally don't want to go back and forth on this because I feel that it would be a waste of both of our time and energy . I respect you and your beliefs . I just don't agree with all of them . I'm ok with that and hope that you are too .

Matt.3 "Recap"

John the Baptist was anointed from birth for his ministry. Meeting Jesus by the river Jordan was no mere coincidence any more than Simeon coming to the temple to meet infant Jesus. " And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ./ And he came by the Spirit into the temple. "( Luke 2:25-27). It is thus the eternal word forever settled in heaven has administered the upkeep of the kingdom of God.

By the same token the voice in the wilderness administering baptism by water was to meet the body in which it pleased the Father that his fulness should dwell. Moses Elijah and John are all associates with Christ the Head. Transfiguration of Jesus at the holy mount was a preview of the glory that was to be made manifest. So the River Jordan is a symbol for the river of time, holding them all as having labored to declare the eternal word of God.

After his transfiguration he reveals its significance of restoration 'of all things' by which what Jesus signified is that "that God may be all in all."(1 Co.15:28). "Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist." The glorious body of Jesus awaited his death and resurrection for which the river symbolized life eternal. As forerunner of the Son Elijah parted the river and the glory was "behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."(2 Ki.2:11) It foreshadows the Ascension of Jesus Christ. "And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight."(Ac.1:9) Such events occurring in the Bible narrative is to instruct us we are all associates chosen before the worlds began and Moses, Elijah and John are many members of the same body. From the fulness of the head which is Christ we are preserved. "Grace and truth came by Jesus Christ."

please remember Jessica and her family today in your prayers

Dear Jesse , I think I have explained my beliefs on here before . They are very simple and based on my reading the Bible every day for thirty years . Death is the cessation of life , hell is the grave , cessation of life , that's why we don't want it , as Christians we know there is another option to death / hell / the grave . That option is to live with Christ in God's Kingdom forever . That's why we fear it , because we know there is a wonderful alternative . Simple as that . Jesus uses the word perish a lot , it means to be totally destroyed . He speaks about it as the end of us if we don't repent . To me , it really is a very simple , clear and consistent message throughout the entire Bible . I'm not trying to convince anyone else , only the Bible can do that , only the Bible could convince me otherwise . With respect and affection .

Matt.3:16-17 "A Highway to Zion"

"And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:/ And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

John as a messenger was sent to make straight the paths and is part of long line of prophets, ("God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,/Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son-He.1:1-2) Prophet Isaiah said,"O Zion, that bringest good tidings, get thee up into the high mountain; O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah, Behold your God!"Nahum also set it on high, "Behold upon the mountains the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace!"(Na.1:15) The reference to the mountain denotes Zion and all the good tidings have come from there without exception. Now at the baptism of Jesus we see the presence of Trinity there. The testimony of the voice from heaven which 'were opened unto him. The descent of the Spirit of God like a dove. The voice signifies the eternal word or the Law Which is God.(John1:1); the Spirit and the Man coming out of the water. Symbolically the river of time accredits him as Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and forever. (He.13:8). Yes indeed he was the Word become flesh who shall taste death once for all men and shall alive forever. John the Baptist as the voice in the wilderness was validated as the greatest of all born of woman.(11:10-11)

The river of Jordan creates a switchover for a believer who as the Psalm says go from strength to strength. "Blessed is the man whose strength is in thee; in whose heart are the ways of them./...They go from strength to strength, every one of them in Zion appeareth before God." (Ps.84:5-7)

Matt.3:13-15 "The River Jordan"

"Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him./ But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?/And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him."

Jesus who knew no sin would have no need for baptism but his baptism goes beyond the significance of the sacrament carries. According to St Paul crossing the Red sea we are told that, "All our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea"(1 Co.10:1-2). Parting of the sea prepared them for a new beginning, the born again experience to which Jesus alludes ( John 3:5) St Paul also mentions the Spirit of Christ being present at that time. Crossing again under the command of Joshua we have the parting of the River Jordan signaling the entry into the Promised Land. Being born of water equipped an Israelite to be born of the Spirit. Sad commentary of the nation we have here," But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness."So the baptism by Spirit would wait.

Jesus would nevertheless take baptism by water under the hand of John so he identified it as a testimony to his humanity and before the Law he being the Word become flesh. The voice testified from heaven bearing testimony " And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."(3:17)

The river Jordan serves as the river of time and it is in this context we may examine the resurrection of souls to which this river serves as a symbol. The river parted ( Josh 3:13-16) when the priests stood with the Ark of the Testimony in the midst till the people passed over. We died to the world in order to alive in heavenly places and we became adopted in his Son even before the worlds began. (Ep.1:3-4)

Well, thank you Shabbat Keeper, but I was hoping you would have addressed some of those verses I shared that speak of an eternal condemnation & suffering. Many of us, over time, have put out those passages to those who believe as you, but unfortunately, none have given an adequate response as to their 'actual meaning'. If it were true that the Love of God is so great that it would be impossible for Him to confine any unsaved soul into a suffering eternity, my question then is, what are we to do with those Scriptures that show us to the contrary? If those Scriptures weren't there, then of course, I could certainly be persuaded to think of death & eternity as you (& others) do. But they are there & can't be avoided, no matter how much we try to diminish them or persuade our consciences that there must be some other unknown reason for them being there; seeing that Jesus Himself said what He did about eternity. I study the Bible as you do, so I hope that when you re-look at those passages, you will understand & grasp what the Scriptures actually reveal & not rely on personal perceptions & feelings, which can only cloud the Truth.

Hi Chris, I feel your love for God in all that you write. I want to say that, from my perspective, the difference with us Christian's dying ( compared to nonbelievers) is that we will be resurrected and our body will be rejoined to our soul. That fact makes dying, now, not as scary. Because we will sleep, and not be really dead.

please pray that I pass my exam and get the opportunity to take my entire family out of poverty so that they too can see God's goodness if full force. and although I'm going through a tough time, please pray for my faith...........I really don't want to lose hope in God due to whats happening around me.

it always seems that people don't understand that the punishment is "eternal", the Fire of the Living God "consumes", and will be forever, just not eternal "torment"... Iv'e come to the understanding that our Father has much more "mercy" than people.

the passovers were shadows of things to come. The Levitical priesthood is done, now it is the order of Melchizedek, applying "old covenant terms to a new "order" is erroneous. just saying

If this is not the right way to do this please forgive me my son goes in the army and about 2 months he's going to Alaska he's only 19 my son to the grapevine said that I was overbearing and controlling I thought about calling some Churches in Alaska and putting him on the prayer list I wonder if anybody can tell me is that a bad idea or would that embarrass him or driving away I sold the seed of Jesus Christ but I don't think it's stuck with him his contract is 3 years but I don't think I'll ever see him again I just don't think he cares about me thank you very much

Thank you for responding I like to do that I feel it's the right thing to do

Jema or Shabbat Keeper,

(Part 3):

Matthew 25:30 says to cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Where is this place and who goes there? How can someone who cease to exist weep or gnash their teeth?

Daniel 12:2 says that many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. This is obviously speaking of two classes of people, believers and non-believers. If one (or both) cease to exist when they die, how can this be?

In Ephesians Chapter 4, when Jesus descended into the lower regions of the earth, what was that for? Why would He go there? Who were these captives that He loosened?

Luke 12:5 says, "But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him." If a person just ceases to exist when they die, why would they have to fear being cast into Hell?

I realize that these are a lot of questions, but what you are presenting here, I think would cause many believers to have questions. Again, if you choose to answer these questions, I do appreciate your time.

Jema or Shabbat Keeper,

(Part 2):

In Luke 16:19-31, we read about the rich man and Lazarus. What I notice is that they both died. It speaks of the rich man being in Hades, and being in torment. What is interesting if you read through that section, the rich man can feel, he can speak, he can see, he can remember, and he is in torment. Notice in Verse 26 that there is a great gulf fixed and no one is able to cross over from one side to the other. There is no hope for those on the opposite side of Abraham's bosom. The question here is, why didn't the rich man cease to exist when he died?

In Mark 9:43-47, even though this is not literally talking about plucking your eye out or cutting off your hand, it does speak of some entering into life, and some being cast into Hell. If the wicked one who has rejected Christ dies and ceases to exist, how can he be cast into Hell?

In Revelation 20:5, it tells us that the rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. Obviously, there must have been a previous resurrection because this talks about the rest of the dead not being resurrected until after the 1,000-year reign. How can those who cease to exist be resurrected? How do you raise or resurrect something that does not exist?

John 5:29 says, "And come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment." Again, how do you resurrect and judge someone that does not exist?

Again, in Luke 16:28, the rich man says, "For I have five brothers, so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment." This rich man is in a place of torment. He did not cease to exist when he died. Why not?

I just have a few more questions if you don't mind, so I will need one more post.

Jema or Shabbat Keeper,

(Part 1):

Where in the bible does it say that the soul will cease to exist? If anyone ceases to exist when they die, can you please answer these questions. I will be the student here, so you have my attention. If you choose to answer these things, I do thank you ahead of time.

In Matthew 25:46, Is this not describing two classes of people, those who received Christ and belong to Him, and those who have rejected Him? If those who reject Him die and cease to exist, how can they go away into eternal punishment if they do not exist?

Revelation 14:11 says that the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night. How can this be for someone that does not exist?

Hebrews 9:27 tells us that it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment. How can anyone who dies and ceases to exist be judged since this judgment comes (after) death?

Revelation 21:8 identifies a class of individuals who will end up in the lake of fire, and it also mentions that this is the second death. If they went through the first death and ceased to exist, how can they experience a second death if they do not exist?

2 Thessalonians 1:9 says that they will suffer the punishment of (eternal destruction), away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might. How is ceasing to exist considered suffering?

Jema, since Romans 6:23 has been quoted which says that the wages of sin is death, how do you get cease to exist out of this word death when the Greek word used (Thanatos) means separation, not cessation of life? Wouldn't it be more appropriate to say that at death, there is a separation from our physical body since this is what the word death means?

Revelation 14:10 talks about being tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. Who is this for and how long will this torment last?

I have more questions to follow. Thank you for your time.

Hello, Amasuca,

Oh my, I was not criticizing what you wrote. I am sorry if it seemed that way. I wrote what was prompted in my spirit to write in response to you, just as you wrote what you were prompted to say. So, we both can learn from each other's posts. The Holy Spirit works in and through us.

And yes, having our names in the Lamb's Book of Life is what we should be thankful for every day we walk with Jesus. Knowing that God has written our name in this book reminds us of how great our salvation in and through Jesus is in contrast to what our unredeemed life before conversion would bring us in at the judgment seat of God. We can be so glad that God did all the work of saving us and if He had not done so, every human person that ever lived would be judged guilty and condemned to the lake of fire forever!

None of us are any more special than the next person; the difference is that we are in Jesus and unbelievers are not; we are justified before God having the righteousness of Jesus given to us and our sins removed whereas unbelievers have their sins remain on them to condemn them; we have eternal life in the best way because we believe Jesus and unbelievers have eternity in punishment unless they repent and believe the Gospel.

Knowing that we are in the Lamb's Book of Life is God's witness that He has declared us redeemed and saved from sin, death, the evil one, and condemnation for our sins. How wonderful is that!

Thank you David, Always appreciate your prayers. I do keep you and your family in my prayers.