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Soul of saints redeemed from the earth is man-child. "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." As he was so are we in the world. "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death." How well do we know our own native soil? "And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne."(Re.12:5)
How did the saints grow from glory to glory? Not from the bestseller lists touted by the world or from literature of those who hold truth in unrighteousness. We did not learn thus from second-hand sources but from heavenly places being hid in Christ. Be not deceived by those who treat soul sleep. The dead are alive because sovereignty of soul is invested on the Living God. People well meaning and yet they do err not knowing the Scripture as they ought to.
Soul is at rest as the Psalmist testified resting on the bosom of his Lord as Jesus learned of the doctrine of God from the bosom of his Father. Rest of one who is dead to the Law of sin learned actively by taking his yoke upon his natural body. "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest./Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls./For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. " Faith is what gives soul its rest and not soul sleep.
"Because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes./ Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight."
God revealed 'these things' which owe to the quality of truth inherent in the heart of man. "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them." (Ro.1:19-20). God fashioned hearts alike signifying God is knowable that there is no denying.(Ro.1:20) Soul is figuratively therefore called a man-child. Jesus called his disciples babes as he did another time 'little ones' as in this verse, "unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple"(10:42)
God breathed into man and made him a living soul so what may be known of God is not created in a higgledy-piggledy fashion but after the image of his Son. It is for this reason the Spirit instructs "That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith;" It is gradual and growth is not synchronized with physical age but with the grace of God operating in anyone. God knows the proud afar off but nigh like the Psalmist who was like a weaned child, not moved by the hustle and bustle of a world without."Surely I have behaved and quieted myself, as a child that is weaned of his mother: my soul is even as a weaned child."(Ps.132:2)
' Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:' was the will of God; so it gives soul of each believer a template for growth. In Trinity.Body. Spirit and Soul refer to it. God's will is expressed with a specific purpose.'A body has thou prepared me'. Spirit and Soul of God gives that body the wherewithal so a believer may grow unto perfection. "But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord."( 2 Co.3:18).In the vision of the Woman Clothed with the Sun is taken straight into the throne. "(Re.12:5)
Daniel interpreted what only the king would have seen and duly forgotten. God revealed it to him and he did ending with these words,"and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure."(Dan.2:45) Truth in his heart did not miss; neither did the Gentile king. The Spirit has laid down the truth as knowable. Before the gospel truth as revealed to him he felt prostrate before Daniel who stood there in place of Jesus Christ.
From heaven and from lower earths the Word of God serves as the eternal Law. (Ps.119:89) So what is the centre of the kingdom of God but the heart that God has fashioned alike? This is truth that man in unrighteousness treats as a trifle. As with city so is an ungodly man. Capernaum or Bethsaida are place names and interchangeable. There is only lingua franca by which man may find salvation. By believing in the Son whom God sent in the fulness of time.
Jesus upbraided the cities and pointed to the day of judgment and it is determined. "for God hath avenged you on her." We have a partial list of martyrs in 23:35 and in here it is complete, "For thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived./And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth."(Re.18:20-24)
This must occur in the generation of Jesus, "Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation." Notice the emphasis given in Matthew? In the light of it does it surprise the disproportionate mass killings all over the earth; it would seem that Satan is aware of his time running out and is a last ditch effort.
" And I saw heaven opened," The final battle begins from heaven since all those cities(the sea-18:21) as we know it are one big charnel house. "And there was no more sea"(Re.21:1)
you expressed our shared thoughts on this very eloquently.
No problem, I understand that people who have been in a spiritual situation where they have been grossly misled or abused or made to feel guilty if one does not follow their teachings strictly and exclusively can have a very adverse reaction to that situation and can be reactive to things that can trigger strong emotions. It seems that this discussion has done so with you. I am sorry for that. I did not begin this discussion, just responding to you and Hadassah, as many do on this site.
As to the sect you were once associated with that taught against getting medical treatment, viewing it as a lack of faith or some other attitude they found thought God would not approve, I am glad you left that situation. Such teachings and pressures to conform are oftentimes a mark of cultish and teaching. So, My prayer is that you are now in a good church situation that feeds you well from Scripture and promotes a deeper walk with God by His Spirit in you. We can discuss what ever you wish. I usually do not begin threads or discussions but often join in. I am happy to know you and look forward to many discussions. I don't think we need to redress the current one on the errors of Catholicism. I do think we agree that there are some very disturbingly false teachings and practices promoted by this sect. And that is a good place to end on this topic.
I do at times share with a few RC friends, & they also read the Bible themselves (a wonderful permission now granted to them), so they are asking questions, some even searching for the Truth (as in your cases). And some even now are saved within that Church, yet unable to leave probably because of the indoctrination of damnation in their early years, to any who considered leaving her. But I remain hopeful that the Spirit will continue to work in (& amongst) them, just as He has done in both of you.
An example: In the Qur'an there are a lot of verses that bring great honor to God, even mirroring the belief some hold to Jesus' position within the Godhead ( John 1:1); and this is found in Surah 3:45 (Qur'an), "When the angels said, 'Mary, God gives thee good tidings of a Word from Him, whose name is Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary; highly honoured shall he be in this world and the next". Here, the claim is made that Jesus is the Word of God, came from God as His Messiah, yet most Muslims reject this meaning as it's incompatible to God being One, without any association. Would I then use the Qur'an as a reliable source to complement the Bible in my readings (Never), or should I be aware that there are truths in there also, yet the 'whole' is so corrupted offering no hope & salvation to the Muslim?
So, even those truths can be the foundation to access the hearts & minds of others (Muslims, RCs, others), where in most cases, a total rejection to the biblical Truth will shut us off completely from them. Here of course, I'm thinking of ministry to such folk lost in darkness & sin, & also as a teaching between Truth & error, learning of what others believe & what has caused them to "err from the truth". So yes, we can at least appreciate when the RC does believe according to the Word: some Light is still evident there amongst the lies & so we have a good basis to build up on our common beliefs, striving to lead them to the perfect & final Work of Jesus for them.
Hello Momsage. If I may intrude a little here in spite of your converstion now going a different way, & in reference to GiGi's position on this matter of RC doctrine & teaching, I understand GiGi's comments a little differently to how you & Hadassah do. As you know, she is not condoning all the beliefs & practises of that Church, rather as I understand it, & from her other posts, that she is stating those RC beliefs that are actually according to the Bible & are to be noted.
However, your position is that 'if there are so many erroneous teachings emanating from a group such as the RC Church, then the whole is to be rejected & given no regard in any way'. But what I see here is that GiGi is airing those teachings that are clearly un-biblical & dishonoring to God, but even within such a misguided Church, there can still be teaching that are clearly biblically-based. For example, I know that some say that 'those who believe in the Trinity are believing a Catholic doctrine initiated by RC Church; and since they themselves don't believe it & the RCs do, therefore we follow a Catholic teaching'. Which is totally erroneous & misrepresenting both the Bible & those who subscribe to it.
Yet, there are teachings that RCs hold to that are biblical, e.g. the Trinity, of Judgement & Hell, of Christ's Virgin Birth, Death, Resurrection & Second Coming, the sanctity of marriage, Sunday (the Lord's Day), & others. And yet there are other teachings, many more that are against sound biblical doctrine. I doubt that neither GiGi, nor I & most others, would voluntarily attend & worship at an RC Church, given their beliefs & practises, but can we truly say that ALL that they believe in, is wrong? Could we not find some ground of common belief that we can use to measure how far folk have deviated from Truth; or, to assist those so grossly misled, to come to the Truth? To Page 2.
I use to belong to a church where one of their main teachings was devine healing but they became so stirck in the teaching that going to a doctor or taking medicine was looked down on. Basically you were being unfaithful to God and His word if you did. What do you think or if you'd rather discuss something else that's OK. God Bless :)
It is fine if we end this thread of conversation between us. I was not saying that you were bring prideful about your knowledge. I was said that "we", meaning any believer, should be careful about it. Sorry if you thought I was pointing you out specifically. I was not.
Also, in all of this conversation I have maintained that we should not be hateful in our speech about others. I stand by that and have been respectful to you. But if you think I have not been so to you, please let me know how you think I have been disrespectful because I do truly want to know.
I hope you have a blessed day and evening.
What I said is that we are to hate any false doctrine no matter the sect. But that does not mean that we are to speak hatefully to those who are in these sects or to oppose ALL that is taught by such sects as long as the teaching is Scripturally sound. We can choose to not be members of such sects or to associate with those in these sects, nor should we recommend people to join them, but we are not to be hateful to them. We are to be winsome in our language to those in sects that teach things that are not in accord with Scripture, endeavoring to find common sound beliefs to speak with them about in hopes of drawing them to the Scriptures to seek more truth.
As for the rest of your post to me, I guess that I really do not have much more to address of it. I hope you have a good day, Oseas.
You said to Momsage that there are many false teachings in Protestant churches today, so, we should hate these as much as the ones taught in Catholicism, and after you made an extense description of sects which have spread false and devilish doctrines.
Reading the content of your post, I was compelled to remember you and all that from now on GOD Almight will LITERALLY fulfill
His Word given to Isaiah about His WRATH against this current generation of satanic religions, and their respective devilish doctrines and teachings. As my GOD said- Isaiah 33:10-14-, Now will He rise, now will He be exalted; now will He lift up Himself.
My GOD is a devouring fire, understand? So the people shall be as the burnings of lime: as thorns cut up shall they be burned in the fire.
Now if any man build upon this foundation gold,silver,precious stones,wood,hay,stubble;Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it,because it shall be revealed by fire;and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is-1Cor.3:12-13.
2 Peter 3:7
&11-12&17-The heavens(the 1st and 2nd heavenly places in Christ- Ephesians 1:3-or 1st and 2nd Covenant-Old and New Testaments)and the earth(the current Israel infested of idolatries and sorceries,whose holy city is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt),which are now,by the same Word are kept in store,RESERVED UNTO FIRE against this Day of Judgment and perdition of ungodly men.(that is the seventh and last Day or seventh and last millennium)
11Seeing then that all these things shall be DISSOLVED,what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the Day of GOD,wherein the heavens being on fire(GOD is a devouring fire) shall be DISSOLVED,and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
17Ye therefore,beloved,seeing ye know these things before,beware lest ye also,being led away with the error of the wicked,fall from your own your own stedfastness.
"But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee."
vv.20-24 The Spirit gives us several place names, all of which are set in terms of a day of Judgment. What Jesus here implies that is this: rise and fall of world empires cities and persons come under the sovereignty of the Word . "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;"(Ro.1:18) God set his truth equally and also tries their actions. Capernaum in particular where Jesus resided ("Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not."-11:20) is set against Sodom which only had Lot who would rather merge with the local color that sound an alien. Jesus however lived In Capernaum, as 'I am the Truth.' In their indifference the townsfolk treated the article Truth in light esteem. Similarly Jerusalem in rejecting Jesus was judged and in 70 AD the ransacking of the city was not the end. The real judgment would be only which the Spirit refers as the day of judgment. This wrath that serve as coup de grace comes in Re.18:21. "Babylon has fallen" is holdall for every city come up for reckoning. "Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come."(Re.18:10). and as with the mode of narrative characteristic of the Spirit, Min-Max mode it includes all. "And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth." This stone is none other than the stone not cut with hands refers to the King's dream. "Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure."
Thank you for this Scripture filled post.
I am confused as to how it is fitting as an address to what I posted to Momsage. Can you please explain? I want to understand why you posted this to me.
I refer you to the reply I gave to Momsage concerning my knowledge of the teachings and practices of the Catholic Church.
I do know of the doctrines you listed and others that you have not that I think to be erroneous.
So, Hadassah, I am not as ignorant as you seem to imply. I am very well informed about the Catholic Church and other sects as I have spent much time studying this topic over the past 50 years.
Just an aside, when I was very young (9 or so) I began to read the Bible for myself. No one else encouraged me to do so at that age, though I was brought up in a traditional church that read scripture every Sunday service. Soon after that, when I was in 5th grade I determined that I only wanted to read what was true, so I stopped reading fiction books and instead read the Bible, because I knew it was true and I began to read biographies and science books, I read the dictionary, encyclopedias, history books. I was very hungry to know the truth about God, my world, and many other subjects. I was a devourer of such literature. This hunger has continued all my life.
But this knowledge does not set me apart from any other believer. We are all on the same journey towards God to come to know Him in Spirit and in truth. As I said to Momsage, in this life we know dimly or darkly) as Paul put it, but in the life to come we will know fully. We all have need of having our doctrine corrected and deepened.
I refer you to the reply I gave to Momsage concerning my knowledge of the teachings and practices of the Catholic Church.
I do know of the doctrines you listed and others that you have not that I think to be erroneous.
So, Hadassah, I am not as ignorant as you seem to imply. I am very well informed about the Catholic Church and other sects as I have spent much time studying this topic over the past 50 years.
Just an aside, when I was very young (9 or so) I began to read the Bible for myself. No one else encouraged me to do so at that age, though I was brought up in a traditional church that read scripture every Sunday service. Soon after that, when I was in 5th grade I determined that I only wanted to read what was true, so I stopped reading fiction books and instead read the Bible, because I knew it was true and I began to read biographies and science books, I read the dictionary, encyclopedias, history books. I was very hungry to know the truth about God, my world, and many other subjects. I was a devourer of such literature. This hunger has continued all my life.
But this knowledge does not set me apart from any other believer. We are all on the same journey towards God to come to know Him in Spirit and in truth. As I said to Momsage, in this life we know dimly or darkly) as Paul put it, but in the life to come we will know fully. We all have need of having our doctrine corrected and deepened.
Again, Just because I have read much from Christian leaders across time does not mean I think they are correct in everything they write. But it makes me think deeply and check out their ideas against Scripture and with the Holy Spirit's help discern what is correct and what is false. But I, too, do not have perfect doctrine in all matters and am constantly learning and correcting my beliefs, which I think all of us should do.
I understand your concern. When Jesus said, H"You cannot serve two masters he was speaking of God and Mammon" (money, riches), so I do not think it is an apt verse to this conversation. Even so, it is true that we should not have divided loyalties.
As to the false teachings of the Catholic church, I do not defend them in any way even as I do not defend false teachings in other sects that profess the Jesus as He is presented in the Word. But even though I reject the false teachings, I do not condemn a whole sect necessarily. None of us have perfect doctrine. Paul tells us that in this life we see through a glass dimly, (or darkly) but in the life to come we will see clearly. In that time we will all have perfect doctrine without error even to the minutest degree.
1 Cor. 13:12 We should be careful and resist spiritual pride concerning our knowledge of right doctrine. We all have some incorrect thinking on spiritual matters.
As to your suggestion that I study more about the Catholic Church, you assume that I do not know as much as you do. I, however, have deeply and comprehensively studied the doctrines and history of the Catholic church as well as come other sects when I was seeking out prayerfully where the Lord would have me join in fellowship with. I rejected the Catholic Church as a possibility because of the teachings you and Hadassah mentioned as well as others not mentioned here.
I know that many ex-Catholics rejected the doctrines mentioned but many who have grown up Catholic have not read much on the history of the Church through the centuries or read the writings of leaders from the early times of the church. I have read much of these and find much food for thought in such writers as Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Augustine, and even Aquinas.
I also have read writings of the Reformers and other protestant leaders such as Calvin, Luther, and others and have found many inspiring thoughts from them, but have not agreed with all of them.
"Thou Lord God has made the heavens and the earth by thy great power, Thou Lord God has made the heavens and the earth with thine outstretched arm.
Nothing is too difficult for thee, nothing is too difficult for thee."
So, I affirmed this before the Lord and asked him to bring healing to all I have prayed for on this site and in my life, because nothing is impossible for God.
Secondly, Adam. I agree that we should not through the baby out with the bathwater. Any day is good to celebrate the truth about Jesus, and His miraculous birth is no exception. If one chooses to celebrate it at Christmastime, that is a good testimony to give at a time when many hearts are more receptive. This is why I celebrate His coming during Christmas even though I know he was not born in December, but it is a season that opens many opportunities to give account of His incarnation.
Amen!
In fact, the scripture tells us that Abraham's possessions came as the immediate aftermath of Abraham's deceitful plan in Genesis 12:11-13 and Pharaoh's actions in response in Genesis 12:15-16. Abraham's actions and the possessions obtained as a result were not based on his fear of God, they were based on his fear of man No one should seek riches in this manner. And was Pharoah rich because he was blessed for obedience to God? Abraham himself says Pharaoh had no fear of God. And God was forced by this entire arrangement between Abraham and Pharoah to intervene with plagues to make Pharaoh drive Abraham out of his land to stop Abraham from continuing to enrich himself on the basis of his lie. Absolutely nothing in this entire incident demonstrates that Abraham was doing God's will and being blessed by God as a result. He was clearly being shotsightedly disobedient and was foolishly putting God's real purpose of bringing about a godly seed through Abraham and Sarah in grave danger.
In any case, do not use Genesis 13:12 as a proof text that God blesses our obedience to his calling when it only demostrates God's unearned grace and faithfulness to His purposes despite our disobedience in devising shortsighted plans for gaining wealth apart from God's will.
God did work it out for good by letting Abraham's possessions cause strife with Lot to finally return Abraham to his original calling of separating himself from his relatives. However, Abraham didn't realize God's reason for letting him obtain and keep those possessions until God once again began revealing His plans and purposes to him immediately upon Lot's departure. So God's purposes for letting us have wealth and ours often don't line up and we need to realize earthly wealth is never God's ultimate goal for his children.
we thank you for this another day of life and
for the daily bread that you give us to feed our bodies,
but above all, it feeds our souls with the living bread that comes from heaven, the bread of life, the heavenly manna;
Follow us and bless us throughout this day, O Lord
Keep us and deliver us from all evil, from all danger,
Encamp your angels around us, around your people on all the face of the Earth,
Your kingdom come to us according to Your Word,
the kingdoms of this world are become the Kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign for ever and ever,
In our works and activities, bless us and prosper us, O Lord GOD
We thank you in the name of your beloved Son JESUS Christ, from now on and forever
Amen
"At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes./ Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight."
Compare this line with Lucan Gospel "In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight." Identical verses, is it not? But it tags altogether two different set of events to establish that heaven and the earth agree in the Son.
Seventy other disciples signify the end times while the twelve refer to the Son who was sent to the earth as the Word become flesh."And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."(v.8) While what justifies the other Seventy is the Word. "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."( 1 John 5:7) The Spirit conflates both in terms of the Word which validates this verse.
While studying the multiplying of loaves we see a similar tag. 12 baskets of broken remains is how Jesus testifies his work as the Word become flesh. ("And they took up of the fragments that remained twelve baskets full."-14:20). As the Son his testimony is tagged by Seven.("And they took up of the broken meat that was left seven baskets full,"-15:37) Jesus Christ as the Son, his deity is revealed. His humanity in terms of the tag 12 so he that sanctified and he that is sanctified are as one."For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,"(He.2:11-18). Principle of Association works for everyone born of God. 1 John 5:11-12
"Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight./ All things are delivered unto me of my Father."As the Word become flesh he is set as the true Light. The Spirit gives us the precise time when Jesus began his ministry. "The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up./From that time Jesus began to preach"(4:16-17). Isaiah inspired by the Spirit ('Wisdom is justified of her children') spoke and Jesus began his ministry prompted by none other than what his eye of faith saw. He as the true Light saw the people had caught on the great light breaking on them. It is similar to the starlight we see at the night sky the light of which must have taken some billion lightyears to reach us, just the same it is in the present. This is a good analogy to explain the word sent forth by God making connection. This does not come from observances but by faith comparing the spiritual with spiritual. So Jesus forthwith calls people and without a murmur they become his disciples.(4:18-23). It is God's time we are looking at, and the work of Gospel cannot be thwarted. In the key text we have the manner God set it all about. God and whomsoever the Son reveals him and it is about the Gospel of God the Spirit intends. It is thus God came upon Zacchaeus, the publican. Because of his short stature, he climbed up. " And he ran before, and climbed up into a sycomore tree to see him: for he was to pass that way./And when Jesus came to the place, he looked up, and saw him, and said unto him, Zacchaeus, make haste, and come down; for to day I must abide at thy house./And he made haste, and came down, and received him joyfully." ( Luke 19:4-6). It is not by will of man but by the will of God that one is called into the Association.( John 1:12-13). All we bring into it is faith.
"Neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him."
Sometimes, I sense that believers/Fellowships don't spend much time at all on what the Holy Spirit actually does in a believer's life - that it truly is a whole new life now lived by His Power & not ours - that we are not only "not our own", but we won't want to belong to anyone else. When I read some testimonies on here, that a brother or sister has lost all taste for this world & even the thought of sinning against a loving heavenly Father becomes abhorent, I am joyful that that dear one has indeed been mightily touched & 'gripped' (as you rightly stated), taking comfort in the securing, keeping Power of God. Every blessing to you dear Jesse.