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Your post reminds me of the same zeal that Judaizers showed in the Church of Galatea w.r.t circumscision. What has the 4th commandment to do with us when the Lord of Sabbath has opened a new and living way? What God gave Moses on stone tables served the time and a context. Moses was a servant and we are called to be coo-heirs with Christ who is the fulfillment of the Law. Decalogue was a digest of the Law which is the Word forever settled in heaven. Seeing that Israel failed to fulfill these shows how superficial it was worn as meaningless as their frontlets and phylacteries. We are called to bear the word on our fleshy tables. We have in the Son the fountain of life. In his light we see the light. So walking therein is entering in God's rest. Sabbath for us everyday service. Not I but Christ who lives in me. When Christ who is our life appear we shall also appear with him in glory. That is our hope.
SABBATH
Genesis: 2:2-3 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy.
"seventh" shebiith: an ordinary number
"rested" sabath: cease, desist, rest
"sanctified, holy qadashconsecrate
"sabbath" sabath intermission
These verses speak of the 4th commandment that God gave (not asked) us to obey to honor Him by resting on that day. God saw this need for us, in order to refresh our bodies, minds and souls. He gave us the other nine, also, for our good. The world, unfortunately, has decided to disregard this commandment so there is no sanctified or consecrated day anymore given only to the Lord to worship Him and for ourselves to enjoy. Believers should recognized that God, not only gave this wonderful commandment to us for our good, but He emphasized it by commanding we remember it. However, He knew it would fall along the wayside. He knew believers would excuse away abstaining from labor on the Sabbath by this and that and the other thing. Believers try to use the scripture to excuse themselves from obeying this commandment but it is just as imperative for a believer to believe and obey this 4th commandment as it is for them to believe and obey the other nine. These commandments are of God. God wrote the them on tablets Himself. After that He gave Moses laws, statues and ordinances to help the people further understanding these commandment. These commandments are the foundation of our walk with God. When God gave All His 10 commands to the race of Adam it was for always.
I do want to say that to have church and fellowship on the first day of the week is not, in any way, wrong because the commandment, again, says only to rest. It just seems to me that fellowshipping and worshiping God with the preaching of His word on our day of rest makes sense. To disregard this sure and steadfast commandment that God intended for our good pleasure is so sad. All of the other commandments are to be obeyed so we will live the holy life God intends for us to live to gain Heaven, but the 4th commandment is for our physical, emotional and spiritual good. It is a gift we try to give back to God and say "no thanks," however, it is also a commandment and God said if we love Him we will obey His commandments because they do not cause us to be burdened. 1 John: 5:3 and Luke 6: 13-14
Some have said, since Jesus is our rest we don't need the 4th commandment and yet, do we "rest" in Jesus at all? Those who believe we not longer need to honor this commandment say the Early Church stopped worshiping on the Sabbath and changed to the first day of the week after the death and resurrection of Christ. These are the two scriptures they usually refer to as showing this.
1 Corinthians 16:2 "Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come." (Paul is just asking the church to gather donations on the first day of each week for when he comes, it doesn't in any way point to them having to be in church to do this just because he asked them to on the first day of the week)
Romans 14:5 "And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight." (Modern day churches don't always have fellowship and worship on Sunday. They do it on any day if it's something they want to do, a service besides their normal church on Sunday. So on this Sunday the church just got together to listen to Paul preach because he had to leave the next day. Nothing is said that this is a regular church service for them.)
There are historical quotes that indicate that the Early Church continued to honor the Sabbath until about 100AD when ravening wolves entered in and things kind of got into a mess so Emperor Constantine, at the Laodician Council in 345AD, made it a law that the day of worship was Sunday the first day of the week. By then the wolves were in charge of the church, it was no longer God's, and pretty much went along with it and that's why people do it today. (Except me.:) Here are some of the quotes:
"Constantine published the Edict of Milan, granting freedom of religion in the empire and establishing Sunday a day of worship" Collier Encyclopedia, vol 7, p. 212
"It was the Holy Catholic Church that changed the day of rest form Saturday to Sunday, the first day of the week. And it not only compelled all to keep Sunday, but at the Council of Laodician, AD 364, anathematized (cursed) those who kept the Sabbath and urged all persons to labor on the 7th day under penalty of anathema (excommunication.)" Catholic Priest T. Enright, CSSRR, Kansas city, Mo
"The Bible says remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day. The Catholic Church says No! By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week and low the entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the Holy Catholic Church." American Sentinel, Father Enright, 1893
I know the world has made it very hard for true believers to honor the 4th commandment but does that excuse us from disobeying it? Again how do we justify ignoring the 4th commandment and not the other nine? Jesus' rest is a spiritual rest, the commandment is a physical, mental and spiritual rest. One doesn't replace the other. No scripture says that. You say I'm being legalistic? Well, I'm not going to worship another God, or take God's name in vain, or build idols to worship, or to not honor my parents, or to murder, or lie (not even little white ones) or to steal or to be jealous, is that being legalistic? If so then I love being legalistic and obeying God's commandments and that is why I rest on Saturday. Each commandment is clear including the 4th. As you said when we ignore or replace the things of God they diminish as the Sabbath has.
It is always good to hear from you.
I've been reading this afternoon on this topic of non-canonical books. But it is certainly not necesary to do so.
As you said, it is good to find out how the church in the earliest times understood doctrines and practices passed down to the leaders from the apostles.
Greetings in Christ JESUS
You have just said in prior post that you have never met one believer that has not sinned in some way as a believer. Here's the great problem of those which justifies themselves as keepers of the Sabbath day according to the letter of the Law, for as said James in his universal epistle- James 2:10- , "whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all". What more does the Word of GOD say? Romans 2:12 ->... as many as have sinned in the Law shall be Judged by the Law, therefore, he who sins in the Law becomes guilty of all, then by the Law he will be condemned for sure. Galatians 3:11 - ...no man is justified by the Law in the sight of GOD it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Galatians 5:4 - Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the Law; ye are fallen from grace.(are wretchad)
Galatians 3:8-10
8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that GOD would justify the Gentiles through faith(not by the Law), preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the Law to do them.
Romans 7:6 - But now we are delivered from the Law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Hebrews 4:
12 For the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom WE MUST RENDER AN ACCOUNT.
I sense that there is a reason for holding to a belief, that these letters by certain eminent men should be treated as spurious. When we have the Deuterocanonical (or, Apocrypha) books that are largely accepted by certain churches (including the RCC), we can easily include the writings of Clement, Polycarp, Eusebius, et al as also falling into that category. And many of these men, especially Polycarp, who was a disciple of the Apostle John, were very much involved in the work & growth of the early Church, so their writings have always been a great help to us many centuries later to understand how the Church believed & functioned. Once we can separate these writings (not all the contents of which we might agree with), from the questionable Apocrypha (written many centuries later before & after Christ), we can begin to get to the source of matters such as Sabbath-keeping, etc. But it comes down to the thorny point: what do I want to believe or will support my belief, rather than let the Word speak - and this is something that I constantly assess within myself, lest I too fall into that trap. Hope your discussions with Momsage continue to be engaging & enlightening.
1. The 10 commandments were commands written by God and were for all of mankind to obey until the end. 2. In the 4th COMMANDMENT God only COMMANDED that we "REST" on the seventh day of the week for our physical, mental and spiritual well being. If believers worship and fellowship together on Sunday there is no "sin" or wrong doing in this and if I put forward the idea that I was saying this I apologize. It just seems sensible to do it on the seventh day during our rest. 3. The 10 Commandments are NOT LAWS. All the laws and statues and ordinances that were given to Moses by God were based on these 10 commands of God. The sacrificial rituals were abolished by the beautiful sacrifice of Jesus so they were no more needed but we, as believers, know in our hearts to obey His COMMANDS. Actually, all souls know to obey them because they are a part of the human conscience. Jesus said: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Matthew 5: 17-18 We cannot pick and choose what commandments to obey. God intended for them all to be obeyed. 4. In the scriptures, from the KJB, I have given a different understanding of the verses that others claim say that the Early Church started worshipping on the first day of the week after Christ died, understandings which are completely possible within the scriptures and some that showed that the early church continued to honor the Sabbath until "ravening wolves" entered in as Paul warned they would. 5. Following the Commands of God/living under the blood of Jesus as a believer are not 2 separate things. They are all part of being a true believer, but, if others don't do it that way, it is not wrong for them until they are convicted of it and then don't obey. God Bless :)
Praying for the peace in Jerusalem, and for the people to receive the gospel of JESUS CHRIST. Let us as believers put on the armor of GOD and go forth into the spiritual battle raging around us.
Let us pray for our leadership, on all levels, to have the mind and heart of the LORD.
May we be blessed and a blessing unto all who the LORD guides to us.
The LORD to shine HIS face on all who trust and believe in HIM.
January 7, 2024
Thanks for getting back to me. May have a very peaceful and blessed day today!
Thank you for this 7-part teaching on bible study. Many things to consider for all of us.
To speak of my experience over time: when I was young I loved to read the gospels because they show us our Lord Jesus and His life among us, his sacrificial death and triumphant resurrection! I wanted to really know Who He was and what He did.
As a teen, I loved reading the epistles repeatedly as they had so much teaching on how we are to live as believers in an unbelieving world, how we are to relate to one another in fellowship and love, how to apply the lessons of the Old Testament in light of the New Covenant of Christ, how to live a godly life for the Lord even when no one else knows what we are doing, knowing that God always knows and looks upon us as we live moment by moment in His loving gaze.
In College I read specific books as I was in studies with others more often. This was something new for me, as I had always studied the Bible alone before going to college. I was taught in church and private schooling from the Bible, but I had not engaged in group study with peers before.
As an married adult, I have read the Old Testament, New Testament, used the Psalms as devotional helps (as you mentioned), memorized certain verses that were more meaningful at certain times in my life. I have engaged in group Bible studies, studied with my husband (much) and taught our sons biblical themes, stories, and the life of Jesus.
Since we did not have a lot of extra money, I did not have extra biblical helps like the ones you mentioned. I finally got a concordance in the early 2000's and Matthew Henry's Commentary at that time also. I did not have a personal computer until just a few years ago, so learning from the internet is new to me, but also has expanded my access to biblical information as I had never had before. This is the first and only forum I have ever participated in and am daily blessed by it.
I love studying what God has to say to me. So good!
I always enjoy your posts and am blessed when we talk here.
Thank you for getting back to me. If you were truly only speaking to Giannis in your post about language that is invective, aggressive, or bullying, then I am sorry I chimed in. If you were speaking generally to all on this site, then it is appropriate for me to address the words you used to identify the character of speech used in this discussion with Momsage or other discourse.
I was concerned that perhaps I had said something that you thought was like these three words you mentioned and so I wanted to share the definition here so that if I had spoken wrongly, you could tell me what wording I used that would qualify such characterization according to the definitions I found for the words invective, aggressive, and bullying.
Like you, I do not want any of us to speak this way. And, like you, I think of this forum as a fellowship in which we should speak to each other as we would if in person and discussing a biblical topic with differing viewpoints.
Jema, you do not need to respond back to me if you do not wish to do so. I understand. I just wanted you to know that I thought you were speaking about the wording Giannis and I were using in discoursing with Momsage and would want to know what I may have said that was offensive to her or to you. Be at peace with me here today. we are sisters. It would be good if we take the time now and then to complement one another and encourage each other with our words. We can express our love and genuine care for each other more than we may have in the past. My hope is that we build bridges towards one another, and continue to pray for one another often, as I do for you. We can tell each other how what one of use has said has uplifted us, helped us, and made us grow closer to the Lord.
All of us here are journeying towards the same goal, same heavenly country (as Abraham), to the same inheritance of the saints, to the same eternal bliss with God, to the most awesome, inspiring, beautiful, satisfying, unsurpassed life
Not wanting to get into the topic of whether or not believers are sinners, since I have never met one believer that has not sinned in some way as a believer. In this way, I did speak that I was a sinner because of what Jema had said about the speech towards you during this thread with you. I was concerned that maybe I had sinned against you in the way she mentioned and repent, apologizing to you and to the members on this site. So, if she can show me any words that Giannis or I used that fit the definition of invective, aggressive, or bullying, I would want to know.
As to our conversation here, it is fine to use strong words to make one's point, especially if one's view is a matter of importance to a person. We do not need to be wishy-washy in order to appease others. We should speak honestly, using as precise of words as we can to explain ourselves in written form. That is not easy for everyone to do. Some people are better at writing out their views than others. Our prowess at writing is not what is important, but using the opportunity afforded in this forum to enter into dialogue with others in order to understand one another as well as relate what each of use knows, perceives, and/or feels led to share.
I appreciate your firmness in your view. I appreciate that you are straight-forward. I appreciate that your love for others shows through in your posts. I appreciate you as a sister in Christ. It is good to have a friend like you on this forum. We do not need to agree on every topic, but we both have the Holy Spirit within us to lead us into harmonious fellowship, knowledge of our Lord, Jesus, and the truths of the Scriptures inspired by our great God who has deemed it best to save us.
It's been a while since I have posted anything here so I wasn't sure if maybe it was something I said a while back. Just checking.
You have a wonderful day too, and a great week. Blessings!
Greetings in Christ JESUS
Reading your post of one day ago,saying if we are to look at the Seventh Day Adventists and their teachings of Ellen White it is clear that there are spurious elements there.As was prophesied by Daniel, the Judgment shall sit,the Judgment will be given to the saints of the most High;the time came that the saints possess the kingdom.By the way,I must say that I have come across and fought for decades with strong battles and terrible combats against atheists and materialists, anf for my surprise the most of them were/are people who abandoned or stopped attending the Seventh-day Adventist Church.
Why is it that after the preachers/guides/pastors of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to compass sea and land to make proselytes, and after these proselytes attend their services for years,they leave the Adventist Church transformed into atheists,materialists? Unfortunately they made them twofold more the child of hell than themselves.
The earth is infested with betrayers who deny the existence of GOD,there are legions of them spread across the earth with which I have come across and fought for decades with strong battles and terrible combats,mainly through websites.I could quote the website links,I don't do due the rules.
See,the objective is not to condemn any brother or sister here.What does the Word of GOD say? James 5:
19Brethren,if any of you do err from the truth,and one convert him;
20Let him know,that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death,and shall hide a multitude of sins.
1Corinthians 6:
1Dare any of you,having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust,and not before the saints?
2Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the WORLD?and if the WORLD shall be Judged by you(by us),are ye(we)unworthy to Judge the smallest matters?
3Know ye not that we shall Judge angels?(fallen angels of the Churches) how much more things that pertain to this life?
GOD BLESS
God Bless :)
I do not practice what you call a prophetic gift. Nonetheless, when warning others of the admonitions of the Bible warning of implications and results of sins I usually feel that I have good enough foresight to be reasonably assured that results the Lord warns of will start to manifest in time. Following the principle of 2 Timothy 3:16 we find that exhortation along with teaching and the other things promised in that verse demonstrate multiple aplications of the same scripture (in this case the same verse).
In the example of Jesus warning Peter of a fall; He specifically knew (as God) the exact verbage that Peter would use and that he would deny Christ not once but three times. We certainly know that we can trust God as to the result eventually of any sin is death ( Ezekiel 18:20); and that certain sins lead to a given result (pride comes before a fall such as mentioned in Proverbs 16:18 which is said to be exactly half way through the Proverbs in terms of how the verses are organized in scripture).
Lust after women leads to adultery in one's heart ( Matt. 5:28). Such behaviors of course likely lead to actual adultery and the result for the unrepentant leads to hell ( Prov. 7:27).
It should be common sense that we need to heed OURSELVES to a love of the law of the Lord such as Psalm 119 covers in detail because we are saved from such an awful fate ourselves. We should always fear God (something uncommon today in "churchianity"). (see 2 Corinthains 5:11). Others don't need a pious litany of our virtues; but we need to be examples of God's people in a wicked and perverse generation (see Matthew 16:4-12 as well as the Epistles on the subject).
Another important point is that we must be doers of the Word not just proclaimers (see book of James). Studying the Word and not obeying was brought up already. We need a proper balance of evangelism and quiet times as well as time to rest.
Agape. RP
The book of Psalms is a common start for daily devotionals. It constitutes all the major types of writings from the poetic acrostic hidden letters found in Psalm 119 emphasizing the law; to prophecies ( Psalm 2; etc) to impreccatory Psalms (asking for judgment); to praise. There may be a couple types I forgot here.
Another theme which is interwoven throughout the Bible is blessings and cursings. There is much written about conditional promises inherent in God's covenant. We see this with Adam and Eve's choice to take of the forbidden fruit; to Cain's downfall; and the whole history of the patriarchs written for our benefit (see 1 Cor. 10:11). IT'S FOR YOU DUMMY! That is what basically is being stated in that passage. I felt it necessary within the parameter of the rules here to mention a sarcastic general statement because looking at the Bible it becomes clear fairly quickly that despite repeated warnings from God people just didn't get it. Again that proves the truth of the Word; as no man would want his account marred by the fallability of men (especially the author of a book). In the N.T. Paul states that he was the "chief of sinners". ( 1 Tim. 1:15). God used him as a former murderer of the saints to preach the most widespread missionary assignment of anyone in scripture encompassing the most scripture as well after the book of Acts. David caused a murder to get Bathsheeba as well. Abraham twice tried to pass off his wife as his sister and his son didn't learn as Isaac tried that later on as well. And of course even His own family didn't believe for a time about Christ not to mention the nation at large. ( John 7:5).
Another way we can study the Bible is to sing Psalms or spiritual songs; which encompasses the original way this literature was delivered. We have to search diligently to find those who do this today; they are out there. A lot of music should be avoided
There is a time and place for starting in Genesis and working our way to Revelation (even if not always strictly chronological books in the 66 books of the Bible). We can look at the varous "dispensations" (ignoring the controversy on the subject) when we see the time of innocence at Creation; the time of the law (from written in men's hearts and early sacrifices to the full delivery of the formal written commandments in Deuteronomy) to the age of grace (or church age which we are currently in) to the Millennium (again ignoring the Post Mil adherants and others to that persuasion) and finally of course eternity itself. Another way of looking at this process is through the lens of Covenant theology which I would argue isn't necessarily mutually exclusive to dispensations.
The next thing we can do is study the history involved with scripture. This is enhanced by studying other literature and archaeological accounts as well as other texts referred to in the Bible that aren't in the KJV Bible today. Some include the book of Enoch which have quotations in the book of Jude but we don't have a correct version of today that doesn't clash with the rest of the Bible in some way. We also have other books mentioned which clearly contained further wisdom literature such as Proverbs; and even a secular writing Paul referred to during his sermon on Mars Hill in the book of Acts. World archaeology and geologic evidence is particularly convincing with the story of Sodom and Gomorrah (with pure sufer balls found in the area by Ron Wyatt and others more recently in that area of the world); as well as the flood of Noah (which are mentioned in books such as the Epic of Gilgamesh and throughout legends of tribes in all continents of the world.) We also have the many giant structures that cannot be explained with high technology (Pyramids) and all over the world as well. That proves the story of Genesis 6.
Loving the Lord of course must always be paramount in our walk with Christ. Obeying Christ out of love could also theoretically be reversed; we can LEARN to love God if we trust that obedience will bring about that intimate fellowship. Knowing our Creator not just knowing about Him allows us to reach out to others in our own church community as well as evangelizing the lost.
The Word once meditated upon should at some point go beyond rote memorization to being able to pull verses to fit a number of situations. That of course is bolstered by initiating the memory of key texts useful for fulfilling the Great Commission. It also has a benefit when a couple verses that have personal importance can be shared as a way of motivating others to study the promises of God applicable to them as well.
As to what we study; I leave it up to the savant to initiate a study in the genealogies of the first 8 chapters of 1 Chronicles. That is; BTW an excellent example of how to use other scriptures to make meaning out of what at first glance appears to be an exhaustive list of myriad individuals who; much like prayer requests often coming up at church involve people we don't know or understand other than what we are told (in that case someone's name). Such is the case with those who are listed and deemed important who we don't know much about except their place in the lineage of God's people (or in the case of the beginning of the Gospel accounts the lineage leading up to Christ). In this example; some names such as David and Abraham are familiar and upon further study we find out how Gentiles like Ruth fit in and how Rahab the harlot also appears. If anything it validates scripture; other religions aren't going to include all the faults and foibles of their heroes if it is a man made text or demonically inspired to appeal to man's good works for salvation.
My next posting will overview different types of scripture to study.
This question leads us into another discussion. One that was recently addressed on this forum. I do not wish to revisit this topic of how one is born again, yet still able to sin, thus is a sinner, though covered by the righteousness of Christ.