All Discussion PAGE 606

Psalms 139:1-18, Romans 10:17

Psalms 25:4,5, Psalms 37, Matthew 6, Psalms 86:11, Psalms 143:10, Isaiah 26:3, Romans 12:2, Luke 11:1-13

2Corinthians 13:11, Romans 10:17,

Hopefully these are helpful

Could I ask a question that I am really confused? God told us to be forgiving. But can we forgive Satan? You may say Satan did something really bad. But people did it too. We need forgive people, why don't we forgive Satan? I know Satan is Ghost created by God, have a free will. (I am a protestant who is already been baptized.)

Giannis,

Here is the second part that I said I would send.

Philippians 2:12 says, "Wherefore, my beloved, as you always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but also in my absence,"



So first of all, he praises them. He says you don't obey just when I'm there, but when I'm not there you obey. Here's what I want you to do. Here's the command, the salvation process.



And please notice the literal translation: Be continually working out your own salvation with fear and trembling.



This tells me that it's a process. Someone might say, "Now wait a minute now. I thought that we didn't have to work for our salvation?"

But we can't separate this from the very next verse. Philippians 2:13 says, "For it is God which works in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."



The word "works in you" is the word energizing. For it is God who is continually energizing in you both to will, and to energize of His good pleasure whatever He thinks best!



It's His energy. It's whenever He wants to energize my spirit for His Spirit to work in me. It's all according to His good pleasure. It doesn't have anything to do with my good pleasure. I'm just a vessel.



So be continually involved in having your salvation worked out because it's God who is working it out.

My salvation cannot be lost because it is God who is working it out in me, and it is God who brings my salvation to its completion. Salvation is completely a work of God from start to finish.

Thank you for the conversation. You are my brother in Christ whether we agree on everything or not. Thank you so much for the blessing. You have a blessed week also!

Giannis,

Thank you for the explanation. I know it is never your intention to offend. We don't agree on everything but I always feel comfortable discussing those things with you.

I do understand free-will. We all have free-will to choose whether or not to obey God.

Personally, I do believe that God can violate a believers free-will. If God wills something to happen and it involves me, and He puts it on my heart, I believe it will happen the way He wills it to happen, no matter how much of my free will I choose to exercise.

Jonah was a great example. God says you're going to Nineveh. You see, Jonah had free will. Jonah exercised his free-will and went the opposite direction, against God's will. We know what happened there. Did God violate Jonah's free-will. It would seem so to me.

Brother, I know we are not robots. As far as God wanting us to choose freely what we want to do, I'm not sure I can agree completely with that.

I think about when Jesus was calling His disciples and He said follow me. That was not an invitation. It was a command. Remember some of the responses? "Let me first" go bury my dad, or "Let me first" go say goodbye to my family.

When Jesus said "follow me," it was a command. They had no choice. It was going to happen one way or another.

God does allow me to choose. But if my choice goes against what He has willed to to happen, His will is going to override my free-will choice.

I am about out of space so I will respond in a second post to your question on Philippians 2:12, and "Why fear and trembling."

It has nothing to do with loss of salvation and I'll explain why I say this.

Proverbs 3:6,

1Thessalonians 3:7-13, 1Thessalonians 5:28, 1Thessalonians 1, Acts 17:16, Paul, away from his friends, longing to see many, can relate.

Hopefully you find some hope & comfort in these scriptures.

Hello Mary B. Just on the matter in John 3:3-5 (as you quoted), the full reading should also include verses 6-8.

In Verse 3: Jesus speaks of a re-birth; Verse 4: Nicodemus thinks of a physical birth; Verse 5: Jesus speaks of a birth that is both "of water and the Spirit" (here the Greek for 'of' is 'from or coming out of'); Verse 6: Jesus qualifies verse 5, that which is physical & that which is spiritual (i.e. water & spirit); Verse 7: re-birth is a must; Verse 8: re-birth is only by the Holy Spirit & not of man's invention or decree.

If we take only verses 3 to 5, then it appears that water (i.e. a water baptism) is necessary (with the baptizing of the Holy Spirit) to enter the Kingdom of God. But we have the problem of the word 'of' which is 'coming out of/from'. Water baptism can never give a spiritual re-birth - only by God's Spirit. The one being baptized in water cannot be said as being born again as a result - he can be immersed in it & rise up out of it, as his testimony of confession, but water is just that - water - giving no possibility of re-birth.

As well, it's interesting that there appears a correlation between verses 4, 5, & 6. Could Jesus' mentioning of 'being born out of water' equate to His qualifier in verse 6 'being born (out of) flesh', as He referred to Nicodemus' question in verse 4; even as He talks of being born from the Spirit is spirit? Water then, is the metaphor for that which of the flesh/the earthly - and carnality is suggested as well. But a Spirit baptism is altogether Holy, which gives the believer a new Spirit indwelling him, controlling him, ministering to him. Thus "that which is born of the Spirit IS spirit" and that "which is born of flesh (water) is flesh" - and this can only be flesh/living in the flesh without the indwelling Spirit of God.

Daniel 2:34 shows how the stone will crush all world empires (symbolized by the various metals in the human figure from Nebuchadnezzar's dream). This shows the stone as symbolic of Christ; THE Rock who will come back and vanquish His enemies and grind them to powder (see Malachi 4:3). Those who are stubborn will be broken suddenly; and without remedy. ( Prov. 6:15).

We are to have a broken and contrite spirit ( Psalm 51:17). That is "falling on the rock". Again; those who would not have Him rule over them will be killed ( Luke 19:27). Thence; our rebellion needs to be broken and our old selves made dead through a new heart replacing a stony one ( Ezekiel 36:26). This allows purification and refining through sanctification whereas a stone remains hardened and is thus crushed to powder. This will be the fate of an individual as well as a nation (or empire) as a whole that is left behind in the Tribulation ultimately; those "earth dwellers" used in Revelation 3:10 and apparently in 8 other verses in that book. That shows where the heart of men as well as their physical presence is if they are "not written in the Book of Life" ( Rev. 13:8) and the end result is to worship the final "Beast" who is an amalgamation of the previous 4 empires (Babylon; Greece; Persia and Rome). This also is shown in a prototype with the image in Daniel 3 which was commanded to be worshipped.

Hi Giannis.

Thanks for replying. I also believe the person John is engaged with in Revelation 1 is Christ.

I also believe the Angel of the Lord is the pre incardinate Christ.

I believe this is who Paul speaks of in Acts 27:22-23. And now I exhort you to be of good cheer: for there shall be no loss of any man's life among you, but of the ship.

For there stood by me this night "the angel of God, whose I am, and whom I serve",

I believe the person speaking to John in Revelation is Christ, not only by the description but by what he says.

" I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

"SAYING",

I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last;

I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

God bless.

2 Chronicles 7:14,

I think you, yourself have to determine how & if you fast. By your faith.

Isaiah 58, Galatians 2:6, Hebrews 11:6, James 1:5-7,

The problem, you've stated you have is considered 'high blood sugar' usually less sugar intake is better for your body. Less food would be less sugar, but that means don't take the same insulin amounts. You should talk about it with the people you're trusting that diagnosed you & prescribed medicine to you, if you're taking insulin.

I guess the first act of faith in fasting for you could be, eating healthy. Cut out unnecessary sugars.

Several fellowships do a 15 day no desserts. Some turn off TV, radio etc to take time to listen to GOD. Usually all fasts reading the Bible & praying more. Turning from sin, like things that displease GOD. Like abusing someone's own body: 1Corinthians 6:9-10,11, Romans 14:22,23, Philippians 3:9,

Hebrews 11,

Interestingly the Bible mentions taking off Kingly garments & putting on sackcloth with fasting: 1Kings 21:27, Daniel 9:3, Isaiah 37:1, Jonah 3:5-10,

(this is the chapter Daniel 9, that the fellowship, takes the 'no dessert' fast from.)

Matthew 6, praying & asking Luke 11:1-13,

Then extreme fasts, for extreme situations: Books of Esther, Matthew 17:14-21,

Hopefully these are helpful

Please pray that The LORD helps me through the trials I am going through and that He protects me and delivers me from my enemies. Please pray that He heals my backsliding and body. Please pray that He supplies all of my spiritual and material needs. Thank you.

Principles of Bible study and interpretation:

The following are the fundamental rules of Bible study that the Bible lays down:

> Christ is the author of the whole Bible. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we behold his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John 1:1,14

> the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but Holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit 2 Peter 1:21

> Christ spoke in parables (earthly stories with a spiritual meaning). But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples. Mark 4:34

> We compare spiritual with spiritual. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 1 Corinthians 2:13

The historical-grammatical method of interpretation employed by the churches seeks to discover the writer's intended meaning, customs of the times, and the writer's intended audience and thus fails to recognize that God is the author and that the Bible is written for us today.

Moreover, the method of Bible interpretation employed by the churches fails to recognize that as we approach the end of the world, and the coming of the bridegroom, God is unsealing truths that have been kept sealed until the time of the end ( Daniel 12:9-10). This is spoken of in the Bible as a vision that will speak at the end and not lie ( Habakkuk 2:2-3).

God ultimately must lead us into truth as we apply these principles and pray for understanding with a view to being obedient to His Word.

Dear Myra:

I think I did a commentary a few weeks ago on that subject. At any rate there are various lengths of time and types of fasts (such as Daniel eating only vegetables for a period of time; probably long term to avoid the Babylonian items probably offered to idols). There are one day fasts and longer as scripture indicates. God knows your heart; if you skip a meal then He will fill you with enough sustenance in the Spirit to persevere in prayer and meditation on the Word. Water obviously affects sugar levels so I would think it would be inadvisable to be without for any great time period.

I'm not sure who is in fellowship that you attend and what their policy is; normally it is pretty rare seeing fasting today; although some may push it who of course we need to be wary of if there is some forced control issue here. If urgent prayer is needed and you can't do what others are then you certainly shouldn't be excluded. It appears normally fasting is something an individual does; although it certainly could be suggested at least in the above situation.

At least in my current church; it seems getting anyone to do more than a "starvation diet" of prayer is a constant battle; I mentioned today that I am pressing as hard as I can without being obnoxious about it. My point being; that if people under ordinary circumstances aren't pressed and convicted to pray frequently and without "formally scheduled" periods where they are basically told who and what to pray about and limited to say half an hour (if you're lucky) even if the DID fast probably not much more would be accomplished--if they even attempted such a thing. Apparently my old church in Pittsburgh recently had an all night prayer (in shifts). Good for them. The other thing is; of course if people don't want to live for the Lord and their hearts aren't right God can't be expected to respond to their prayers.

Sorry to "rant" just thought some of this could be relevant. I ask for wisdom 4U.

Psalms 78:2 I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old:

Psalms 49:3 My mouth shall speak of wisdom; and the meditation of my heart shall be of understanding.

Psalms 49:4 I will incline mine ear to a parable: I will open my dark saying upon the harp.

Mark 4:33 And with many such parables spake he the word unto them, as they were able to hear it.

Mark 4:34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.

Matthew 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

Matthew 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Matthew 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

Matthew 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

Matthew 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

Matthew 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Matthew 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

Matthew 13:17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

Okay last post for real.

The final example is the lack of belief in fundamental tenets such as Creation (sadly found in some Bible believing churches with certain members). There is also those who have other Christ's that will inevitably end up changing who He is by some image; or imaginary "escape" of His crucifixion; or putting Him into the category of "ascended Master"; etc. Hebrews 9:27 slays the pundits of "reincarnation". Man is destined to die once and face the judgment (also eliminates "purgatory").

Then there is the example as in Genesis 3 "did God really say this?" There are plenty of source materials explaining the accuracy of the original writings in the Bible by the priests; how they would discard things even one LETTER off from the text of a scroll of an entire manuscript; etc. This is not a posting on apologetics; but on rightly dividing the Word.

Going back to 2 Timothy 3:16 we see the "God breathed" aspect of ALL of the Word followed as stated before as being suitable for all things needed in our walk (loosely translated). That being said; IF a truth is found (for instance to an event in the intertestamental period) then we can accurately put together the puzzle (for example the many prophecies in Daniel 11). If there is a moral statement in other writings; no doubt the essence comes from the Holy Scripture as to any true wisdom found. Such is the case admittedly in most major religious writings along with the error; we need to be careful of course determining these things. We can't play the game of some who want to detach from the Old Testament (I won't mention the name again) in order to focus just on Christ and the Resurrection in the N.T. All scripture fits together as glove; as a web of knowledge. We must all seek to be careful that we are reading with "spiritual eyes" these immortal truths of the Living Word of God. There is no "perfect translation" but the picture is clear enough for all to see; and the original text true.

Final thoughts on scripture plus poison. (Also BTW maybe my first posting was not put on because of something wrong I said so I don't have the original 3 things listed).

As to point 3; taking literal scripture to symbolic; again anothe real life example was with the book of Jonah. I was told by someone in a "Presbyterian" church when I was in Pittsburgh about 15 years ago that it wasn't a true story. That would make it symbolic at best; or spurious according to this preacher's opinion (not sure his official title maybe Bishop or elder). That was my last visit there; of course it was already showing signs of other issues at the time of liberal interpretations etc.

Going back to the original example of the church replacing Israel in all things (besides the New Covenant for now including Jews and Gentiles) and the assumption that national Israel and the many scriptures on the final fulfillment of the destiny in numerous O.T. prophecies (and some in the N.T. such as Romans 14) we have a large chunk of the Bible we have to say is symbolic despite obvious explanations and meanings to the contrary. Ezekiel 47:9; for instance on the Dead Sea having fresh water has already occurred at least partially with the discovery in recent years of fresh water springs intruding and some sea life found.

As I have mentioned before here or elsewhere there is usually not an issue with past prophecies on the FIRST coming of Christ and O.T. ones being iterally fulfilled. There are of course those who choose not to believe the Bible that make language symbolic. People like to leave things out; such as the mention of the sin of pride with Sodom and Gomorrah in Ezekiel 16:49 which ignores the obvious literal attempt at assault of the angels visiting the city recorded in the Genesis narrative and the laws in the Pentateuch on the penalties for such behavior. There are those who misapply the Bible in regard to female Pastors and others that "cherry pick" what suits them.

Please pray for me, I'm starting a new job, and I need prayer for healing for my knee, and for all the energy and focus and strength I need to do this job. I need prayer for favor in my workplace too. Thank you.

Thank you, Richard. Your postings here remind us to be vigilant so as not to be led astray by false teachers and doctrines that are so prevalent in the church today. I was just thinking on this a night or so ago as I was trying to get to sleep (which is when I often turn things over in my mind because of lack of distractions). I was thinking about how in my own lifetime so many false ideas have entered the body of Christ and taken root, grown, and become common belief in many branches of the body of Christ.

I can reflect back on how many of these false ideas are of more recent "revelation" and there are so many people so eager to latch on to something "new" not realizing that the Scriptures are completed and no new revelations will be given to the world. The past few hundred years have incubated and birthed many heresies and false teachers from within the church family. And some of the heresies are age old ones repackaged. These are doctrines that the church has consistently refuted as erroneous, but keep cropping up to lead people astray.

It makes me sad to see this happen. I have decades-old believing friends who seem to jump on the bandwagon of every new trend in the churches. I try to warn them and pray for them often. Whenever I hear or read something that is patently false from someone who claims to be a believer I give them the benefit of the doubt that they are just deceived but not necessarily deceivers and I pray for them. If I get the opportunity I try to speak out what I know to be true. But we all should be watchful of what we accept as truth and speak because any of us can fall into error so easily even if we are true believers. We need to be humble when people try to challenge our thinking and go to the word to test what we say and what others say. Paul exhorted leaders like Timothy as well as to the members of the churches he planted to be diligent and watchful and careful about their doctrine. This is good advice for us to follow today, too.

PT 2

Jesse

Before that verse 13 (ie in verse 12) it says, "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

Why fear and trembling? Because if one doesn't follow the narrow road but walks the wide highway then no matter if that person is born again or not the end will always be distruction. And because God does not want us to get there, He uses all sort of ways to affect our behavior to make us follow His commandments.

Jesse I know what you believe about this topic, salvation, we have talked about that many times in the past. My purpose is to explain myself and not to offend you. Have a blessed week. Your brother in Christ.

PT 1

Hello Jesse.

Well I would say that "if it is Gods will for me to do something, and He puts it in my heart, then in my free will, I either choose to do it or not to do it. If I choose not to do it God will not force me to do it. He will work it in my heart but will not force me. He will not "magically" make me do what He desires. We are not robots who are programmed to do specific things, we have to want to do something.

But let me explain myself. God can not violate people's free will, not because He can not do it but because He wants us to choose freely what we want to do. This is free will. It would be easy for God to appear to all mankind and everybody then would believe in Him and accept Him and Kneel in front of Him. But in such a case people would be compelled to do so. But God wants us to choose Him freely without being complelled to do so. So it will be obvious who loves the truth and who loves the darkness.

In the case of a believer God acts as an earthy father. When we want our Kids to do something i.e. clean their rooms then we talk to them, we explain to them why this is good, etc, etc, hoping that after sometime our Kids will change they way they behave and do the proper thing. Even sometimes we use punishments or rewards to achieve what we want. But that has not always the result we like, because some kids (like sometimes mine) do not obey even if I use the hard way. So I keep working the proper thing in his mind and hope a time will come that my efforts will finally have a result.

Similarly God works in our heart to make us follow His commandments using all sort of methods. And His commadments is the narrow road we have to follow to arrive to a victorious end, the salvation of our souls.

Jonah 3:1-10

Now the word of the LORD came unto Jonah the son of Amittai, saying,

Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee.

So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days' journey.

And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.

So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them.

For word came unto the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes.

And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water:

But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands.

Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?

And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

Matthew 12:41

The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

End of point 2 on Scripture plus poison series...

Other than the use of pagan writings that Paul used; for instance to further expound on a concept (usally to reach those of a particular culture) such readings tend to lead us toward the slippery slope of poisonous leaven which seeks to diminish the Bible or make us somehow think it isn't adequate for use as 2 Timothy 3:16 states. When we start to find novel interpretations ultimately it is used to justify our sin; and unbelief of course is a very serious issue; and seems to be the worst sin as to it's destructive power. The other extreme is those who exaggerate the charismatic aspects to "spiritual gifts"; either at the expense of proper balance within the church in relation to ministry to others (order in worship for example). What often comes out of that if no discernment is used is a demonic spirit that mimics the Holy Spirit (such as Kundalini). Once false religions are allowed to come in then we have a "reimagined" Jesus; heaven and every other Biblical narrative is explained in such a way.

Eventually; of course the Bible is rejected outright if we continue to deny it's truth and exclusivity and we will become reprobate from the faith; if we are unregenerate. Thankfully His elect will return after being astray for a season; and such testimonies are commonplace today especially among young adults.

My third point on Scriptures and poison is something which involves turning literal scriptures into symbolic in order to "pidgeonhole" the particular doctrine espoused when it doesn't seem to fit in with particular sections of the Bible. This technique is commonplace with many Post-Millennials and A Millennials in particular; when they insist for instance that we are in the 1000 years in the church age rather than an event post Tribulation. There is often the concept that God must be done with Israel (despite certain eternal covenants promised to them that are unconditional).

Hello Spencer.

In my post I only listed what I know, not what I believe. My belief is that that person who appears to John in Rev 1 was Jesus, but there are some things that make have some doubts.

1. It it true that in verse 1 Jesus says that He sent an angel to John to reveal him the future. So where do we get to see that angel in Rev?

2. The description of that person resembles very much to the appearance of an angel discribed by Daniel.

3. I know what that person among the 7 candlestichs says to John. He speaks as if though He is Jesus Himself. But this often occurs in OT when angels speak to people as if there were God themselves.

Examples: a. Who spoke to Moses on mount Horeb from within the flame in the bushes? Although it seems it is God in verse 5, it is actually the angel of the Lord (verse 2).

b. To whom Moses was talking to on mount Sinai when he got the 10 commandments and all the other instructions? From chapter 19 onwards it seems that it is God Himself but in Acts 7:38 Stephen says to Jews that it was an angel, "This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:"

c. In Judges 2:1-4, an angel appears to talk to Israeletes but he speaks as if he was God Himself. The same happens with Gideon (chapt. 6). So it seems in many cases in OT an angel sent by God talks as he is God Himself.

(Here I have to state that many believe that the angel of the Lord who often appears in OT is (a pre-incarnation) Jesus in the form of an angel)

So those things make me have some doubts about who is the person who speaks to John, Jesus or an angel?

GBU

Part two of scripture and poison series: Twisting scriptures

In my last posting I discussed how Satan read verbatum scriptures but twisted their meaning to suit his purposes. It wasn't the text being violated but being violently hurled to attempt to appeal to lesser passions; i.e. hunger after a 40 day fast; and an attempt to alleviate suffering. This would be used later through Peter when Christ had to say "get behind me Satan" ( Matt. 16:23) when the "easy way out" was being offered. Jesus would; of course have no part of it.

The next level to "demoting" scripture is taking a promise and utilizing it for a superficial or surface level approach; ultimately to appeal to baser desires. This is; of course a well known technique of the "prosperity Gospel" crowd. The blessings are things extrapolated from scriptures such as Deuteronomy 28 which are; of course both conditional on obedience and related to certain promises specific to the territorial possessions of the nation of Israel. The list of curses following in the same chapter warn us of how God will judge those under His covenant for following false Gods in particular. The absurdity of ascribing such promises for this life and our own selfish ambition should be quelled easily enough when we study the "man of sorrows" verse in Isaiah 53:3 and the following verses in this prophetic chapter. It also robs those who are of a proper mindset from both petitioning God for the promises He has given to provide (in fear of being misunderstood or having a wrong motive). It also robs those who are of a shallow mind of being "chastised as sons" ( Heb. 12:6). That is clearly God's will; and it is not a "politically correct" prayer. Only those SERIOUS about their walk would ask such things and they obviously expect the Lord to refine them through sanctification into the finished; glorified product of His workmanship.

Further manipulation involves "hidden meanings" or other literature to add to scripture.

In my last update; I mentioned "decisional regeneration". My final statement on that subject is that we all must truly make the "decision" to verbally and in the heart confess Christ; but we must continue believing and test ourselves to see if we are in the faith after such a commitment. ( 2 Cor. 13:5). John 3:16 as I have said before is in a tense that means a CONTINUING faith; not just a one time experience where we can dwell with those of heaven and continue to live as before; therefore still on the wide road leading to destruction. If we have decieved ourselves; of course there is some crossover with the other points I have made in regard to not taking specific sins seriously; or being a tare. In the three cases examined under point one so far the Bible is used at face value; so to speak; and the poison basically comes from within ourself. Satan is by no means excluded from this process but doesn't have to do as much as in the other two cases I am about to discuss.

Case #2 Twisting scriptures

Ah; now we are getting into the enemy's camp. Most of us probably are familiar with Christ's dialogue with Satan when being tempted in the wilderness ( Matthew 4:1-11). Here there was no issue with the LITERAL interpretation of scripture but it's application. Satan wanted worship for Himself so he first used the temptation to satisfy hunger; then that of ending suffering through self destruction and finally worship for himself. In the first two cases he used scripture as his ammo. In the last case his true intentions came out; i.e. for him to be worshipped as God. Christ did the "knockout punch" there with the command to worship only God alone. Satan didn't have to use scripture to prove his point as later verses in the N.T. indicate that he has been given temporary power over the world system and Principalities in high places ( Eph. 6:12). He also knew that Jesus wouldn't be fooled by some other "religious" writings since He was the Son of God. ( James 2:19

I am putting dangers of scripture used with lethal additives. I subdivided 3 categories; with the first primarily focused on a correct reading of scripture but lack of belief in reality. The tares may or may not add heresy but as I stated previously it seems most are unaware of their desperate state but are content in themselves because they are "covered in the blood" somehow.

Those who are justifying sin may or may not be believers (such as "hyper-grace" people who somehow deny that sin still is sin after they are "saved"; or those who choose to ignore certain passages or hope God will forgive them somehow for continuing in sin.

The third part is what I called "confessional regeneration"; I meant "decisional regeneration". Again as in the first two examples of the first error the Bible is used in proclaiming the truth in question (in this case the way to salvation) correctly although it is not APPLIED properly. Perhaps if it truly IS confessional which involves the "believing in your heart" part of Romans 10:9; then a verbal affirmation has more hope of being genuine.

Sadly enough; in my own experience I know of someone who hands out a rather large sum of money for those who can correctly pass a Bile trivia question. I suppose that would save "rain man" from having to have a career loading decks of cards to make money at the casino who is quite a savant person to make a living. There are articles describing some of the sickening methods used at "altar calls" such as money for those who can invite the most people so as to obtain the most "conversions".

Sounds like a great way to promote the "Judas's" in the midst waiting to take over as the new kid in town if you get my drift..

Ignoring those gross offenses; there are some as myself who didn't understand the doctrines of election; or how God has to grant repentance and change someone for genuine conversion. I'm sure there are others who made a confession as I did and are truly saved. But many aren't

The three dangers of misusing scripture to allow sin to enter into the camp.

1. False converts, Justifying sin; "confessional regeneration".

a. False converts: There are those who deliberately enter in whether Satan worshippers or those attempting to fleece people for money that know how to recite scriptures and use it to their advantage to reel unsuspecting people in and attempt to manipulate them. I have seen these things in a former church; I won't get into details here. Many who are "tares" aren't aware themselves that they are and therefore we must "know them by their fruits." ( Matt. 7:16).

b. Justifying sin: In order to get others to approve of wrong actions as well as justifying certain behaviors; we see error today ( Romans 1:32). This is again another thing I have seen from previous experience in church where those living in obvious sin (including shacking up as well as in same sex relations) thought that they could somehow become church members. In my opinion when there is sin within the camp and a lack of fear of the Lord such individuals are given latitude to "slip in unawares" and wreak havoc. There was enough scripture taught that eventually these people stopped attending or it became more infrequent. Thankfully; one couple decided to marry after being convicted of living that way; or at least upped the ante some.

Again; it is easy to look at sexual sins and obvious failings and not look at pride and jealousy and gossip as being dangerous elements threatening to tear apart the unity in a church. ALL of these things; of course are covered in scripture and in this case you can't make a "literal vs figurative" argument. To look at how one path has led to a domino effect we only need to examine increasing divorces post WW2; followed; of course by increasing numbers of remarriages. Then we see the next generation more likely to be single parents; then the 1970's free love; and now today's LGBQ etal trends.

Dont quite understand fasting what do you do ? Go all day without eating or give up someing you like for a day or just a meal explain --Please if it mean go with out food all day and cant do that Im diabetic , so what do I do

The Gospel: Pure and uncompromised

Matthew 12:34 states that "out of the abundance of the heart; the mouth speaketh." Isaiah 8:20 speaking about those who are false Prophets says "to the word and the testimony". They are said if not to speak the truth to have "no light of the dawn". Contrast this with Revelation 12:11 where the word of their testimony of the Tribulation martyrs indicates that they "loved not their lives unto the death." With today's churches having doctrines as skewed as they are we aren't safe to assume that occultic demonic "doctrines of demons" haven't already infected many congregations as 1 Timothy 4:1 warns. But for the remainder of this discussion I will assume that at least a respectable version of the scriptures is being preached in the churches I am examining here.

The Lord stated how "a little leaven ruins the whole loaf". ( Galatians 5:9 and other verses). No one is going to offer arsenic with a little inert ingredient to temper the flavor as an appetizer; but if being devious will put a little poison in something that is tasty. Satan won't come along saying that he is a deceiver; liar and murdurer and by the way wouldn't you like to join my cause? Admittedly there are a few who are sadistic enough to play the fiddle with the Devil as it were with some fantasy that they are so vile that they can command the Devil what to do; and there are some who despite knowing his nature think that Satan won't grind them into powder as was requested by Satan to Christ in the case of Peter.

The greatest danger; therefore lies when sin enters within the tent; the congregation of meeting and scripture is mixed in to instill false confidence in one's spiritual standing; or twisted to justify what eventually becomes a festering cancer after initially being toyed with by a few in idle conversation. There is also the ever present danger of trying to justify a doctrine; either true or false by turning literal scriptures to figurative.

This "stone" that Christ says "those that fall on it will be broken and those it falls on will be ground to." ; what is it and why the difference in severity?