Discuss Revelation 7 Page 5

Nina, May the Spirit grace you with HIS wisdom and His understanding.



Matthew 27:52-53 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

(53) and came out of the graves after HIS RESURRECTION, and went in to the holy city, and appeared to many.

Understanding these scriptures takes other scriptures and the HOLY SPIRIT causing you to understand.

Isaiah 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, TOGETHER WITH MY DEAD BODY SHALL THEY ARISE......

This prophecy is three fold, Christ promises the (called out) saints of the old testament and the (called out) saints of the new testament along with (HIS) dead body would RISE TOGETHER.

Hebrews 11:16 But now they (saints of old) desire a better country, that is, a heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called there God: for he hath prepared them a (HOLY) CITY. The one in Matthew 27:53

Hebrews 11:39-40 And these all (saints of old), having obtained a good report through faith, RECEIVED NO THE PROMISE (eternal life, it would be given to them at Christ resurrection).

(40) God having provided some better thing for us (the called out of the new testament will never see death, we were resurrected with Christ), that they (saints of old) without us (new saints) should not be made perfect (image of Christ, who only hath immortality, [eternal life] 1 Timothy 6:16).

Luke 20:36 Neither can they (the called out) die any more (they [WE ARE SIN] died with Christ on the cross, were buried and arose with him): for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, BEING THE CHILDREN OF THE RESURRECTION.

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. THIS IS THE FIRST RESURRECTION.

Psalms 103:20 Bless the Lord, YE HIS ANGELS, that excel in strength, that do his commandments,

hearkening unto the voice of his word.

Revelation 7:4 Describes the called out saints of the old testament that were sealed with the Holy Spirit (Christ).

Hello Aaron (& Edna). I don't believe that we can use personal email addresses on this Site, as it's a public Site & you know how problems can occur by doing so. If your great grandmother hits the Reply button on the Comment she wishes to respond to (or, else start a fresh Comment to bring up a new Topic or question), then we should all see it. Having said that, your comment to me, & some from others, don't always give me an alert in my email, so I actually stumbled onto your comment now, as I try to peruse as much of the input into KJB Online as possible. And of course, there are many capable, knowledgeable brothers & sisters here who would be willing to give answers, if I miss it. Hopefully, it will all work out for her.

To her question: I understand that she was referring to Revelation 7:3 ff. There would be several views on this portion of Scripture, but to me, if it seems clear in the Bible, then I accept it as given. We're not told how this Seal of God is applied to the foreheads, whether visible or not: likely visible. And then again, it applies to the 144,000 (12,000 from each of the tribes of Israel). Some see this number as referring to the Church, since the purity, indeed the evidence, of any of the tribes, are virtually non-existent today. But if we say that it's the Church being spoken of, then why mention the tribes, & why such a relatively low number of people who are sealed? Again, I believe that this speaks of Israel, as we (the Church) have already been sealed by the Holy Spirit & as I also believe that we will not go through the Great Tribulation & we will not be here in Revelation chap 7, but with the Lord in Heaven.

So the Revelation Seal is one from God placed upon the 144,000 of Israel, whereas the Mark of the Beast, is that mark or name that is required to be put on all those left on Earth so they can serve the Anti-Christ & be able to live. But for how long? As the Wrath of God will soon be poured out on all living on Earth at that time.

Hello, Chris. My name is Aaron. I'm responding on the behalf of my great grandmother, Edna, who posted the original comment.

I think she was referring to the seal on the servants of God, mentioned in Revelation 7:3. She was asking what the difference between that seal and the "mark of the beast" was.

Thank you for response! I never expected to get such a thorough response so quickly!

I'll relay your comment to her.

Thanks again!

I agree, Richard Groom. Everything said by Paul, Peter, John is in complete harmony with what Jesus said in Matthew 24:9. The argument is that 24 is for the Jews. But that is a stretch. The chapter begins by telling us the Disciples of

"Jesus got together and asked Him about His Return and the End of the Age. The fact that they were Jews is inconsequential.

As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said,

"when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"

His response follows.

"Immediately after the Tribulation of those days

"'the sun will be darkened,

the moon will not give its light;

the stars will fall from the sky,

the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'

"Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth

will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven,

with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call,

and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Even a cursory comparison of all the references in the New and Old Testament concerning the Last Days and the Return of Jesus, shows no deviation from the Timeline Jesus presents in 24:9. The idea that there is a pre-coming before the Coming, ignores the parallels and the words of Jesus. There isn't a single place in all of Scripture where a specific time is revealed for the Second Coming, that isn't in keeping with 24:9. And if there were a secret pre-coming, why didn't Jesus reveal it to His disciples, who came to Him privately?

Revelation tells us clearly that many will be persecuted and killed during the Tribulation, FOR THEIR TESTIMONY OF CHRIST. Revelation 7:14 "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation.

The Day of Wrath is the final hour, not the full 7 years.

thanks I love this . I use it for my daily devotionals and study. Im blessed to have this bible. thanks again and God bless you

Anne, may the Spirit grace you with his understanding;

Hebrews 11 is a testament about the old testament saints; but pay close attention to verses 39 and 40.

Hebrews 11:39-40 And these all (old testament saints), having obtained a good report through (the work of the Spirit of Christ or the Holy Ghost which is) faith, received not the promise (eternal life, incorruption, immortality):

(vs) 40 God (Spirit) having provided some better thing for us (children of the resurrection), that they (old testament saints) without us (children or the resurrection) should not be made perfect (complete in the Spirit of Christ or the Holy Ghost who only hath immortality 1 timothy 6:16).

John 11:25 ..... I am the resurrection......

Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us ( old testament saints, children or the resurrection and Christ) up together......

Revelation 20:5 .... this is the first resurrection....

Matthew 27:52-53 And the graves were opened; and many of the bodies of the (old testaments) saints which slept (died waiting for the promise) arose,

(vs) 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city (new Jerusalem)......

Revelation 7:1-4 (vs) 3 ......till we (Spirit) have sealed our servants (old testament) saints in their foreheads (given them the mind of Christ)......

Revelation 14:4 .......these (old testament saints) were redeemed from among men, being the FIRST FRUITS unto God.....

Revelation 1:3 .... for the time is at hand...

May the Spirit grace you with his wisdom.

In every Bible-based, Bible-believing congregation, the 'leader of the Church' (also, called an Elder or Pastor) should have elders & deacons to assist in the teaching, direction, & management of the flock. So in Acts 20:28, Paul called for the Ephesians elders & gave them this instruction: "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood."

The Pastor & the eldership have the responsibility & endorsement by God to teach & shepherd His flock, ruling well & directing the Church according to the Scriptures & in a society that opposes Christ. In the early Church, believers were heavily dependent on their leadership for proper spiritual guidance as they had little else by way of the full counsel of God & spiritual maturity to discern correct or incorrect teaching. Therefore, the apostles had to often 're-teach' or warn the believers of wrong teaching & to beware of the 'wolves' lurking in the Church to destroy her.

Today, we have the full revealed Word in our hands & the Spirit to help us understand & apply its Truths. If the Pastor or speaker has said something that seems incorrect, or in your case, a questionable decision he has made, then I believe it is the right & responsibility of the Christian to enquire further about it. If it's a question of something spoken from the Word, one can approach the speaker (as a couple have even asked me to further expand a point that I may have glossed over). If it's to do with a Church matter (its organization, its direction, its ministry, etc.), then doubtless the elders would've come together to discuss & pray over the matter & the Church informed so the matter is fully aired. If there is an individual dispute over it, then it would be correct, in all humility & knowing the Pastor's position & responsibility, to seek further light on it from him or the elders. One shouldn't be chastised for it.

There are no direct scripture statements from anyone in the bible stating a,coming of Jesus before the trib. Why reach something rhats,not there?

How do I tell a friend who God is? He said, he doesn't know who God is.

Hello, that's great that you are seeking help both from God and your fellow Christians.

I noticed you said you make 'good money' but struggle financially. Your statement tells me both the problem and the solution. The problem is not that you don't make enough money, the problem must be how you manage it- your saving and spending habits. By chance have you heard of Dave Ramsey and his information on managing money? You can see most of the information for free online and on YouTube.

What's interesting is that income doesn't have much to do with how stable someone is financially. Poor people with low incomes can still save and some have done so and have become quite wealthy later in life. But other poor people spend what little money they receive right away and have nothing left over- often debt. On the other hand you also have people with a high income- some spend responsibly and save and have security, but others spend it all and have no financial security, but dept. Many millionaires have gone bankrupt from poor money management habits. So, some people with low income can be more rich and prosperous than those with a high income.

What's really hard for people is humbling themselves and lowing their income, because they don't want to lower their luxurious lifestyle. People do it, but people end up feeling entitled to a certain lifestyle and is very hard to break it. It will take discipline, but can it be done? Of course, if you stopped spending so much money you of course would recover. Programs like Dave Ramsey with a support system might help break bad spending and money habits.

God bless!

I'd stop paying tithes , they are under the law of the OT , not NT . Neither do we sacrifice animals . But give to the more needy than you is good and the Lord will repay you for it .

The Old Testament doesn't provide any clear reference to a star to be seen over Bethlehem. These 'wise men' or magi from Eastern lands were observers of the starry kingdom, & even though they may have used their art for dubious purposes, there was suddenly an observance that appeared to them that was out of sync with the placement of the heavenly bodies at that time of the year. And it was not only different in that way but also of increased intensity (maybe similar to the recent alignment of two planets) which prompted their travel into that direction.

Now, they would have to travel a great distance, even if it was on animals, so it's possible that at the first appearance of this special star they commenced their move. And in the providence of God, their arrival at baby Jesus' crib, an animal's feeding trough, coincided with His birth. But the question: how did these magi even know that this babe was to become "the King of the Jews"? We're not told this: it could have been a prophecy (as in Micah 5:2) that reached them, or some other belief in that part of the world expecting a ruler-ship to happen in Israel. But they immediately responded to that heavenly phenomenon.

Just my thoughts to guide you, but can't be verified from the Scriptures.

Was the star that led the wise men to Jesus ever an Old Testament prediction?

We have always struggled financially. We both make good money, pay our tithes faithfully but struggle financially....I need help

Comments by Alex about the Israel OF GOD, The Children of Promise as Jesus was refering to when he spoke of the H.G. saying that which is born of the spirit is spirit which is our new innerman the H.G. the ISRAEL OF GOD from the seed of Christ the living WORD . Romans 9 : 7 Not all Israel is Israel its the children of Promise that are counted for the good seed which are spirits the H.G. THE ISRAEL OF GOD that comes out of the loins of Christ , his seed , his breath etc .But he says the children of the flesh are not the children of God, its the children of Promise that are counted for the good seed which are spirits the H.G. plural the children of PROMISE that are gonna be as the Stars of Heaven which are the ISRAEL OF GOD OUR NEW INNERMAN, THAT NEW CREATURE THAT IS GONNA BE BORN IN US VIA THAT GOOD SEED the words of Christ. That new covenant, the contents of the book in the volume of the book it is written of me i delight to do thy will O GOD meaning the words of the book are living beings GODS to whom the word came it made them GODS and the scripture cannot be broken. As them that are born of God cannot sin and thats God will that we might not sin period be ye perfect as your father in heaven is perfect,The Israel of GOD are gonna be perfect which is the result of the New Covenant the blood of Christ. The seeds of the sower . The children of PROMISE but the main thing to remember is the children of the flesh are not the children of GOD . GOD has a more perfect people in mind which are his spirits the H.G. plural THE CHILDREN OF PROMISE. Whosoever receiveth one such child in MY NAME receiveth ME. A lil one shall become a 1000 and a small one a strong NATION I THE LORD WILL HASTEN IT IN ITS TIME THESE ARE THE ISRAEL OF GOD THAT ARE GONNA BE BORN IN US SINNERS. The children of the kingdom . Unless ya receive the Kingdom as a lil child etc. Thats y the new birth is so important, there is a baby Christ in the seed of Jesus. The kingdom can only come via a birth gbu

Alex Comments about the WOMAN IN REVELATION 12, Her Child is the Israel of God which is the H.G. That was born by the seed of God ( the Word of God ).Remember Jesus said the good seed/Word are the Children of the Kingdom .YA gotta realize that Christ sows a heavenly seed which is the very LIVING WORD of God .Which is a much greater seed then Abrahams seed . Natural Israel . The seed of Christ is the Israel of GOD Which is her Child the living WORD of God thats how he will Rule ALL NATIONS HE IS GONNA BE BORN IN ALL of US VIA that good seed which is the seed of the sower . Thus her Child is the Child of PROMISE WHICH IS THE H.G. THE KINGDOM, that is gona rule all nations simply b/c he is gonna be born in the hearts of ALL MEN humanity, Remember Jesus said the field is the WORLD where that good seed will be sown,as God so loved the world, If i be lifted up i will draw ALL MEN unto me. Thus the WOMAN IS THE WORLD THE BRIDE the CHURCH but her CHILD IS EMANUEL THE H.G. GOD WITH US. Our Kingdom, Remember Jesus said unless you receive the kingdom of God as a lil CHILD you will in NO WISE enter there in . The wedding was started 2 days,2000 yrs ago at Pentecost ,They were all intoxicated at Pentecost in the spirit but they ran out of that 1 st wine,Jesus has kept the best wine for last Which is the new covenant , CONTENTS OF THE BOOK, Mankind is gonna have a baby Christ, the Womans BABY WHICH IS SPIRIT THE H.G. Thats y he always called himself the Son of MAN. Unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given which is the results of the seed of the sower the Words of GOD , that NEW WINE, Ya gotta realize that the Kingdom nor true salvation comes till the woman gives birth . Revelation 12 v 10 . I HEARD A LOUD VOICE FROM HEAVEN SAYING NOW IS COME SALVATION AND THE KINGDOM OF OUR GOD AND THE POWER OF HIS CHRIST ( the womans CHILD is our new birth,our new innerman ,our new heart and new spirit .THE KINGDOM OF GOD BORN IN US VIA THAT GOOD SEED THE LIVING WORD THE H.G. GBU.

Hal Lindsey ? Good grief ...

Sorry but no rapture , get real faith Jesus is coming watch and pray

Beware of false prophets!

Saying the end is near .

Wells without water ,clouds without rain

If you have refused to accept Jesus's invitation to be born again ( John 3)

And you are Left Behind on earth, after the Rapture of millions/billions of believers

No one knows how rapidly the Beast will set up the Economic takeover of all institutions using money, currency. It will come by force. The Antichrist is revealed after the Rapture. There is also a False Prophet who will set up a One World Religion. All nations will get on board with it.

A Police State will be formed. There are testimonies from workers that have already witnessed guillotines in warehouses. Not on national news. A one world system of money will be formed. Meanwhile there will be assurances from the Antichrist that everyone will be taken care of. Food will be barely enough, water too. Look how disrupted ALL nations are now with this CoronaVirus plague. People aren't all working; businesses closed, bankrupt; schools barely limping along. Children who have not blasphemed Jesus Christ will be raptured; all infants, toddlers, handicapped. Why? People in the Bible ate their children in famines.

And then 1/2 way through the 7 years, the Antichrist will turn from solving problems to become a mass murderer in ALL nations. All banking is ended. You will have to take His Mark (666) in your forehead or hand. You will have to Worship him; become a traitor to those who refuse to get the Mark. You can't trust anyone. Rioters will invade homes to get food, water or gasoline. An asteroid named Wormwood will hit the earth and climate will change to winter. Water will be poisoned, all fish will die. Earthquakes, volcanoes, tsunamis & more will occur. There will be hailstones big as cars. Animals will attack humans for food. Read Revelation & minor prophets! Try to get informed! Read some Hal Lindsey books NOW!

Why go through this? Look for the BECOME A BELIEVER link on this website. Block Print it and Tell others before it's too late. Depend on JESUS. He is your ONLY safe place.

After the rapture of the church will those left behind have an opportunity for salvation? If any take the mark of the beast they will suffer God's wrath... does this mean if you don't take the mark you have an opportunity to be saved from hell?

God's re-creation of a new Heaven (may also refer to the sky/universe) & a new Earth, is the final great Act of God to remove the stain & stench of sin from the Earth. Satan, his demons & all who followed him have been cast into the eternal Lake of Fire (chapter 20), so now this new Earth will be for all the righteous ones to live on, with God Himself reigning with them.

It appears that with the creation of the New Jerusalem, which comes down & is established on this new revamped Earth, that there will be no other countries or cities, as all of God's people will be eternally with the Father & His Son in this new City. Those who have been raptured, or had died in Christ earlier, along with the Old Testament saints & martyrs, will have 'physical' bodies so fashioned, that we will be able to live in Heaven or on Earth. That is why the "dead in Christ will rise first" at the coming of the Lord ( 1 Thessalonians 4:16), that their reconstituted bodies, with those living, will be physically with the Lord & not just 'spirits in Heaven'.

The 144,000 that you read about in Revelation chapters 7 & 14, apply to the 12,000 from each of the 12 Tribes of Israel. We are not told how these will be known & selected (except it's stated that they are virgins ( Revelation 14:4), seeing that present day Israel is largely of mixed blood. Yet aside from these, there will still be the number of redeemed Gentiles ( Revelation 7:9) who will, together with all the other inhabitants of Heaven, worship the Lord into Eternity.

What is not Created in Goodness and Faith? We who Do GOOD Deeds Yesterday, Today, and Tomorrow always and always now and forever more will find the right direction.

John

Do Good Deeds yesterday!

Do Good Deeds today!

Do Good Deeds tomorrow!

May the Lord God and Jesus Christ Guide and Protect us always to Heaven, Amen

John Rooney

Thanks for your reply,I have read all this but wanted to get the word out to many people that still thinkthe word (rapture ) is an actual word in the bible

Thank you for your answer. I have read this before but some people seam to believe the word RAPTURE is really in the bible.People actually believe the actual word appears in the bible--just wanted to set some readers straight.

The Bible teaches on: The Day of the Lord; also named, Caught Up in the Clouds. Just enter any of those in the top Search Box.

Also, Thief in the Night, in the Clouds.

Rapture is a state or experience of being carried away. The English word comes from a Latin word, rapio, which means to seize or snatch in relation to an ecstasy of spirit or the actual removal from one place to another. In other words, it means to be carried away in spirit or in body. The Rapture of the church means the carrying away of the church from earth to heaven.

The Greek word from this term "rapture" is derived appears in 1 Thessalonians 4:17, translated "caught up." The Latin translation of this verse used the word rapturo. The Greek word it translates is harpazo, which means to snatch or take away. Elsewhere it is used to describe how the Spirit caught up Philip near Gaza and brought him to Caesarea ( Acts 8:39) and to describe Paul's experience of being caught up into the third heaven ( 2 Cor. 12:2-4). Thus there can be no doubt that the word is used in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 to indicate the actual removal of people from earth to heaven.

It is commonly asserted that the word rapture doesn't appear in the Bible, and this absence is held forth as evidence that the teaching of the rapture is a falsehood. But this claim is untrue. The word rapture does appear in the Bible. It appears in the exact same way that words like angel and apostle appear in the Bible. he word rapture is simply the anglicized form of the Greek word (harpaz) that appears in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 in the original text.

To begin with, the English word rapture is derived from the Latin participle raptus from the verb rapio. And Latin rapio and Greek (harpaz) are cognates - they are the same word.Don't be fooled by the superficial differences between Latin rapio and Greek harpaz. The - (-az) on the end of (harpaz) is not part of the shared stem but a common Koine Greek verb ending.

1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 is one place you will find it. But, you will not find the word "rapture" in your English Bible. The word rapture comes from the Latin word Raptus. The original language (Greek) uses the word harpadzo which is basically the same thing. So whether you use the word rapture, raptus, or harpadzo, they all mean the same thing, to be "caught up" or seized by force. And that is what is found in 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4.

Try Thessalonians Book 1 Chapter 4

Both the tribe of Dan & the tribe pertaining to Ephraim (son of Joseph) are missing from the list in Revelation 7:4-8. There is no certainty why these names are missing, with the tribes of Joseph & Manasseh being reflected instead. The general reason given is that according to Judges 18:30-31, Dan went into idol worship, as also Ephraim, & they had failed to repent & return to the worship of the true God. Even though they would have continued to survive (i.e. not being wiped out), their idolatrous practises caused God to isolate & remove them entirely.