Discuss Revelation 5 Page 4

  • Tom Stoud - 3 years ago
    Look how closely these 2 prophets parallel each other. Ten thousand x ten thousand and thousands of thousands.

    Daniel 7:8-10 &

    Revelation 5:8-11
  • S Spencer - In Reply on Revelation 4 - 3 years ago
    Hi Robert.

    There's two popular views, One is they're the 12 Apostles and the sons of Jacob.

    The other view is they represent The Church/ Redeemed.

    Because of what's mentioned in Revelation 5:8-10.

    Revelation 1:6.

    and 1 Peter 2:5-9.

    Revelation 5:8-10. And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

    And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood OUT OF EVERY KINDRED, AND TONGUE, AND PEOPLE, AND NATION;

    And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

    What's interesting is what's mentioned in Revelation 5:6. in conjuction with Revelation 2:1.

    Seems to be a change of location In Revelation Ch 2 and 3 Jesus is in the midst of the Church on Earth, by the time we get to Revelation 4:1. The scene is in heaven!! And Jesus is in the midst of the Church in Revelation 5:6.

    Revelation 5:6. And I beheld, and, lo,-

    -" IN THE MIDST OF THE THRONE AND OF THE FOUR BEASTS, AND IN THE MIDST OF THE ELDERS, STOOD A LAMB"

    as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

    If this is the Church they're in Heaven it seems to suggest a pre trib Rapture.

    God bless.
  • Earl Bowman - In Reply - 3 years ago
    Brother S Spencer:

    Revelation 22:14-15 Blessed are they (the ELECT). They have become Son's of God, to judge the earth.

    For WITHOUT are those raised back in the flesh to be judged.

    This judgement is happening on earth after the second resurrection (Could take a thousand years or more, this is hinted at in the prophets).

    Revelation 5:10 And hath made us unto our God kings and priest to REIGN ON EARTH.

    Revelation 2:26 An he that overcometh, and keepeth MY WORKS unto the end, will I GIVE POWER over the nations: (that are raised back to earthy flesh to be judged)

    Revelation 2:27 And he shall rule (JUDGE) them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter they shall be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father ( Psalms 2:8-10).

    Obadiah 1:18 And the house of Jacob shall be (lake of) A FIRE, and the the house of Joseph A FLAME ( Luke 16:24), and the house of Esau as STUBBLE, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.

    Obadiah 1:21 And SAVIOURS (Christ and his brothers the SON'S OF GOD) shall come upon mount Zion to JUDGE the house of Esau, and the Kingdom (ON EARTH) shall be the LORD'S.

    Jeremiah 51:19-23

    Only the elect will have a glorified body at this time, all other will still have earthly bodies.
  • S Spencer - 3 years ago
    The conclusion of all things.

    Revelation 22:1-7.

    Let's skip ahead to 2 neglected verses.

    Revelation 22:10-11. And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

    He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

    Here's where the unjust will remain unjust, and the just will remain just. Meaning judgement is past tense by the time we get here.

    Revelation 22:12. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. Sounds familiar? ( 1 Corinthians 3:14-15.)

    Revelation 22:14-15. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

    Verse 14 we have the redeemed! They're the just that will stay just mentioned in verse 11. How did they do his commandments? By Atonement!

    Romans 3:24-28.

    Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

    Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

    To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

    Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

    Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

    Also: 1 John 2:1-2.

    And Hebrews 10:14-17.

    Revelation 5:9. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

    God bless.
  • Earl Bowman - In Reply - 3 years ago
    Brother Dan:

    Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priest: and we shall reign ON EARTH.

    Yes, there will be animals.
  • Earl Bowman - In Reply - 3 years ago
    Sister GiGI, you are correct, doctrines are TEACHINGS, that man accepts as TRUE, but are those teachings TRUE. Man has TEACHING that CONTRADICT GOD'S WORD, thus those TEACHINGS are not TRUE. ( Revelation 12:9)

    Man believes salvation is his choice and not God's choice, contradicting scriptures. Man TEACHES this.

    John 15:16 You have not chosen me but I have chosen you, and ordained you ..... Man does not TEACH this.

    1 John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that God sent the Son to be Saviour of the world. Man TEACHES the SON is going to fail saving the world because it's man's choice and not God's Choice. Man TEACHES this. ( Revelation 2:24)

    1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN (even those that don't believe in this AGE ( Romans 9:18-21), specially those that believe (in the AGE).

    1 Timothy 4:11 These things (saviour of all men) COMMAND AND TEACH. Many are called (to teach this) FEW are chosen.

    Man TEACHES that those who don't CHOOSE Christ are going to HELL. Man TEACHES this. These TEACHINGS contradict all the above scriptures. ( Revelation 12:9).

    Thy KINGDOM COME, THY WILL BE DONE.

    Psalms 22:27 ALL the ENDS of the WORLD shall remember and TURN unto the LORD: and ALL the kindreds of the nation shall WORSHIP before thee.

    Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that setteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

    Man not only does man NOT teach this, they don't BELIEVE this is TRUE. ( Revelation 12:9)

    1 Corinthians 15:28 And when all things have been subdued unto him. then shall the son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be ALL IN ALL.

    Man does not TEACH this nor even believe it ( Revelation 12:9).
  • Earl Bowman - In Reply - 3 years ago
    Page 1

    Brother Kevin, Christ is reigning NOW, the kingdom of God came when Christ was RESURRECTED, so, YES, the earth is being populated during his REIGN. His reign want end until he has SUBDUED all things to himself ( 1 Corinthians 15:25-28). In this AGE he is only CHOOSING and CAUSING the ones to be priest ( Revelation 5:10) in his kingdom to BELIEVE ( Philippians 1:29). The feast of the weeks is the shadow in the Old Testament, the wheat and rye were harvested first (it was only a small portion of the crop that would be harvested that year). You see references to wheat in Christ parables (we are the WHEAT).

    When the second resurrection has happened, all the inhabitants of the world from Adam to the resurrection of the dead, will be raised back into their terrestrial flesh. They are going to be judged and brought to truth. It appears from some of the prophets words that this judgement could last a long time. Man may once again live in terrestrial flesh to be hundreds of years old, So, yes, the earth could be repopulating during this AGE. In the Old testament the feast of the tabernacles was when the remainder of the harvest was brought IN (after the WHEAT was harvested). We are the WHEAT (first resurrection) those in the second resurrection are the remaining harvest, to be harvested in the feast of the in gathering or feast of the tabernacles.

    Zechariah 14:4 And his (Christ) feet shall stand in that day (Day of the Lord) on the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half the mountain shall move toward the north, and half the mountain toward the south.

    This prophecy ALSO must be spiritually discerned.

    When Christ in his ministry stood on the mount of Olives, this became reality, but the mountain and valley are, SIGNIFIED, and not not literal. Mountains and valleys and hills are often SIGNIFIED as PEOPLE
  • Chris - In Reply on 1 Corinthians 1 - 3 years ago
    Hello Free. I'm sorry that I missed your comment to me, but will address it now. My apologies.

    In 1 Corinthians chapter 11, the apostle is speaking about this relationship within the New Covenant. Before Jesus came to Earth as a babe, the Bible tells us that He was the Word of God ( John 1:1-14). In other words, God manifested Himself to His people, Israel, through the giving of His Word & by His Spirit through His prophets. But now in these last days (i.e. New Covenant days - post Cross), He has spoken to us by His Son, that Word Who was made Man ( Hebrews 1:1,2).

    So, now when we see Jesus, He is seen (in the NT), as God made flesh, died, buried, resurrected, & ascended to sit at the Father's right Hand ( Luke 22:69; Colossians 3:1; Hebrews 10:12). Jesus holds within Himself the full divinity of God His Father, all His Glory, & receives all the worship ( Hebrews 1:6; Revelation 5:12), but He now remains distinct in 'bodily' form because of His incarnation. And this is a picture of how we will be when translated to live in Heaven ( 1 John 3:2).

    Therefore, God as Jesus' Father will always be at the Head, then Jesus as His only begotten Son next in position, then man as God's first creation in God's Image, & then woman made out of man, both of them bearing God's Image.

    I don't understand your statement: "Also how do you say we are not under the old law but then makes new laws for women?" The only way I can understand your statement is to say that under the old Law, there was neither need nor provision for women preaching in the Church; there was no Church. This "ordinance" that Paul delivered ( 1 Corinthians 11:2) is entirely based on the risen Christ & His Church - nothing at all to do with any 'old' Law or whether the women of old ministered as prophets, judges, warriors, etc. Under the New Covenant, there is also a new order in His Body, as for those who now worship God in spirit & in Truth. Blessings.
  • Ronald L Whittemore - In Reply - 3 years ago
    Sister Sacha across the pond, good memory, Numbers 14:21, we also see in Psalm 115:16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men. We also see when Jesus comes to set up the kingdom here on earth, in Zechariah 14:4. Also we will reign here on earth 2 Timothy 2:12 Revelation 5:10 Revelation 11:15

    I agree anytime we study the Bible we need to keep in mind how our fleshly mind works. For most of our life, we function with our subconscious mind with little to no thought at all. We have programmed our minds with traditions, teaching, and things we learn by what we see and do.

    Preconceived ideas imprinted in our minds and when we read or hear a reading a picture automatically pops in our mind and it is two steps ahead of what we are reading, seeing, or hearing. A small test, read the following sentence quickly, one time.

    Mary had little lamb its fleece white snow everywhere Mary the lamb sure to go.

    Did you fill in the missing words unwillingly or did you stumble trying to read it because you have heard it so many times? I know this is not biblical but it could be if it helps study. It might not be we have made up our mind, it is more like our mind made it up own its own unless we can with prayer and consciously clear our mind.

    Sorry, I got wordy, love reading yours and Mishael's posts, instead of contentious I would use a saying that started near to where you live, from medieval jousts, you wear your heart on your sleeve.

    God bless,

    RLW
  • Chris - In Reply on John 1 - 3 years ago
    Page 2.

    The understanding of God & His Son Jesus meant much more than Jesus appearing at birth as the Son of God - it meant that Jesus proceeded out from God ( John 16:27,28).

    You would not be denying the Son of God by referring to Jesus as God (always within the Deity from whence He came at the first). Jesus, as God's Word, was always within the Godhead. The fact that He became human can't deny Him His Divinity (or else, He wouldn't be worshipped in Heaven: Revelation 5:1-14; & holding the descriptions of God: Revelation 1:8,11,17,18). If He weren't part of the Godhead, how could He receive worship from the heavenly hosts?

    "Can a person receive salvation and be a Christian without believing in the trinity?" you ask. I believe he can be. One doesn't have to know & understand all doctrines or have read the Bible through, to attain salvation, except to come in contrition, an earnest yearning for salvation, & that through faith in the Cross. But after knowing the Word, & rejection of the Deity of Christ, I have no opinion on what is God's matter alone.

    Two questions from me, which I have asked several times before on KJBO, without answer:

    1. Why did God have to send His only begotten to die for us - couldn't a special Heaven-prepared lamb not do the job? Leaving aside the prophecy speaking of a Man coming in David's lineage, since prophecy is only God's Word sent out after God's Determination first.

    2. If John 1:1-14 speaks of God's Word being with Him & of Him, & that Word was given a human body & dwelt among His people, what other meaning can be given to these words, other than a clear belief of Christ's Deity? Why do those who reject Jesus' pre-existence fail to give an exposition of these verses? Every blessing.
  • Earl Bowman - In Reply - 3 years ago
    Brother Mishael, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

    Revelation 16:12 .... that the way of the kings of the east be prepared.

    Revelation is the REVEALING of JESUS CHRIST.

    I BELIEVE the kings of the east represents the BORN AGAIN.

    Revelation 5:10 And hath made us unto our God KINGS ....

    Matthew 2:1 ....and there came KINGS from the EAST (to worship) ...

    It's hard to apply countries to Revelation, because in the last two thousand years anyone living at any given time could make Revelation fit their TIME.

    Look at Revelation how it FITS CHRIST.

    Food for thought, SPIRIT reveals.
  • Earl Bowman - In Reply on 2 Chronicles 16 - 3 years ago
    Amen BSP, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

    You are correct; when God purposes something, it's good as done.

    1 Timothy 2:4 Who WILL HAVE (God's WILL; will be done)( Matthew 6:10) ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, and come to the KNOWLEDGE OF TRUTH.

    1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour (in the WORKS OF GOD; not our work)( Colossians 1:29) and suffer reproach, because we trust ( Ezekiel 36:27) in the living God, who is the SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN, specially those who believe ( Philippians 1:29)

    1 Timothy 4:11 There things COMMAND and TEACH.

    God IS NOT searching for those who want to SERVE HIM; because if it were up to flesh, NO ONE would serve him. He has already CHOSEN US ( Ephesians 1:11); he is BRINGING US TO THAT TRUTH ( Ezekiel 36:27).

    Flesh WILL NOT serve GOD; it is enmity to SPIRIT ( Romans 8:7) .

    God has CHOSEN (through casting the die; if you will)( Ezekiel 20:37) a select FEW to be KINGS and PRIEST ( Revelation 5:10) with HIM in his kingdom.

    Those, CHOSEN TO BECOME the IMAGE of GOD ( Romans 8:29)( Ephesians 4:24), will become judges with Christ' at the resurrection of the dead, back to their flesh ( 1 Corinthians 6:2)( Revelation 2:26-27). They (the dead) will be THEN brought to TRUTH.

    Isaiah 29:9 For when thy judgements are in the earth, the inhabitants WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS.

    None of this is a reproof to you, my brother in Christ, I am just ADDING to your comments.
  • Carleton - In Reply on Revelation 20 - 3 years ago
    Who would have the power of the key to the bottomless pit and give permission to use? Jesus in Revelation 1:18 had the keys of hell and death and is alive evermore. The Revelation the Lamb is worthy to open the seals thereof. Revelation 5:9-10 And they sang a new song, saying Though are worthy to take the book, and open the seals thereof: for though was slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

    And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

    Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and him was given the key of the bottomless pit. Revelation 20:1 says: And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

    One stronger than Satan and all other evil spirits could and did bound this bottomless pit by the power of the resurrection. This is the completed Work of Christ for those who could now look to Jesus as the author and finisher of their faith and be saved from the dominion of death and hell with Satan and his evil spirits.

    The Kingdom of Christ could now come down from heaven to dwell among men. Saved children of God on earth could become citizens of the Kingdom instead of as aliens without the gate.

    The same citizens could now reign with Jesus for a thousand years. These citizens of the Kingdom can pray intercessory prayers and sing a pure praise to the Lord.

    So another view is the 1000 years is the Gospel era. The loosing of Satan towards the end of time will help clarify the Kingdom of Heaven from the kingdom of the world. This present Kingdom view is peaceable and is contained in all the doctrines of the Bible including turning swords into ploweshares.
  • Rick - In Reply on Revelation 5 - 3 years ago
    Russell Naylor I forgot to mention something if it doesn't fit with Gods Word and the true Science of the stars which is Astronomy not Astrology its not true. Because in Genesis 1:14+15 God put them there in psalm 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament sheweth his handywork. In His Service
  • Rick - In Reply on Revelation 5 - 3 years ago
    Russell Naylor Revelation 12 Woman clothed in the sun with child. This is too long for this format so look up Intercessors for America Sept. 11th The true birth date of Jesus Christ then you decide, it explains a lot. Of course there's people who believe it and some that don't but it was not Dec. 25th. Remember Herod wanted to kill the child when he heard about Him, that's to devour or destroy Him. Revelation is some past present and definitely future prophecy in very condensed language. In His Service
  • Russell Naylor - In Reply on Revelation 5 - 3 years ago
    I think your pets (past,!present & future will def go to Heaven! That's where mine are.
  • Russell Naylor on Revelation 5 - 3 years ago
    Can you tell me more about the woman clothed with the moon who's child was in danger of being devoured as soon as it was born
  • S Spencer - In Reply on Ephesians 1 - 3 years ago
    Hi Geoffrey.

    Part 3.

    Purchased Possession seated in Heavenly places.

    Revelation 5:7-13. And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

    And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

    And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast ( REDEEMED US TO GOD BY THY BLOOD OUT OF EVERY KINDRED, AND TONGUE, AND PEOPLE, AND NATION; )

    And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

    And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;

    Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

    And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

    NOTE: ALL BEFORE THE GREAT TRIBULATION!!

    God bless.
  • S Spencer - In Reply on Ephesians 1 - 3 years ago
    Hi Geoffrey.

    Part 2.of 3.

    Now that we have been loosed from the curse of the law, We take these verses in consideration.

    NOW READ "ALL" OF ROMANS 7.

    It clears up some of the trouble people have with Romans 7.

    .......... Romans 7:2. For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is LOOSED FROM THE LAW OF HER HUSBAND.........

    Also.

    Colossians 3:3-4. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

    When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

    Also

    Ephesians 2:5-6. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

    And hath raised us up together, and made us SIT TOGETHER IN HEAVENLY PLACES IN CHRIST JESUS:

    There's many others but look ahead to Revelation where Christ Claims his possession!!!

    Revelation 5:1-6. And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.

    And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

    And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

    And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

    And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

    And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

    See part 3.
  • S Spencer - In Reply on Revelation 5 - 3 years ago
    HI John.

    I believe the creatures mentioned here is on the every thing that was created, It says in heaven "AND ON EARTH" We're on that list of created things as well,

    There will be those people on earth, animals, and that which is in the sea. The group here mentioned is not in heaven.

    I believe heaven have a lot more to offer than the things you love down here on earth.

    Revelation 5:13. And every creature which is in heaven, AND ON THE EARTH, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

    God bless
  • John Russell on Revelation 5 - 3 years ago
    Revelations 5:13 says "every creature (as well an others noted) "in Heaven and on the earth"Animals have shown me God's goodness, special love, and kindness and love to other animals! Does this verse comfort us who love dearly our pets and would rejoice to see them in heaven?
  • Johnathan Taylor - In Reply on Revelation 5 - 3 years ago
    S Spencer,

    I have not heard back from you about who the people of many tongues are? I was expecting you to clear this up since you're familiar with it, and willing to talk about what scripture says.

    I want to add scripture that solidifies my belief. Please compare these 2 similar scriptures, one of which you used below, and note how spot on they are to ID the 144k:

    ( Revelation 5:9:11). You said "It directly says they're out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;"

    And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

    &

    ( Revelation 7:8-9) 8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

    9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

    These are the 144k going from being sealed, to being in heaven. They are the fellowservants of the Revelation 6 fifth seal saints who were told to rest for a little season, and given white robes. The 144k are wearing white robes. It is safe to say that the group in Revelation 5 is the same group that's spread throughout the narrative.

    Let me know if this make sense to you, who they are.
  • Johnathan Taylor - In Reply - 3 years ago
    S Spencer,

    "The group in Revelation is not reigning on the earth"

    I said "alluding" because it's not so obvious who they are, but it is obvious from what they do. Yeah, I know they're in heaven, and will reign on earth. Read it again.

    "And they're not the 144 thousand seen in Revelation Ch. 7 and 14. In Revelation 7 and 14 they're 12000 out of every tribe of Israel."

    How many times do you want God to tell you who they are, and in how many ways? There's something called a rough number. If you can't see the likeness between those 2 figures, math is not your calling.

    "In Revelation 5:9:11. It directly says they're out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;"

    Seriously? That is them!!! Israel was scattered all over the earth, Israel's seed is everywhere, and from those nations and tongues are where the 144K are gathered from. THEY LOST THEIR IDENTITY, THEY HAVE NO IDEA WHO THEY ARE be it Dan, Ruben, or Gad. They're sealed out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation, that's who Israel has become. Israel represents EVERYONE.

    "I believe this is the Church that has been raptured up."

    Did you add that number up? It comes out to roughly 144k. depending on what thousands of thousands is, That amount of people would only cover a medium city. What would you do in the first resurrection anyways. ( Revelation 7:15) witnesses have taken up all the jobs. I thought like you because someone told me about a rapture, so I studied up. What speculation I have is backed up by scripture, you'll always have doubt. Be thankful for ( Ezekiel 37:1-14).
  • Dianne - In Reply on Revelation 5 - 3 years ago
    S Spencer Thats from context what I understand also.
  • S Spencer - In Reply on Revelation 5 - 3 years ago
    Johnathan.

    The group in Revelation is not reigning on the earth. They're in heaven in the midst around the Throne! Revelation 5:6. And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

    And they're not the 144 thousand seen in Revelation Ch. 7 and 14. In Revelation 7 and 14 they're 12000 out of every tribe of Israel.

    Revelation 7:4. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

    In Revelation 5:9:11. It directly says they're out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

    And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

    And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

    And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;

    I believe this is the Church that has been raptured up.

    God bless.
  • Johnathan Taylor on Revelation 5 - 3 years ago
    Tis gets interesting:

    ( Revelation 5:9-11) alludes to the 144k reigning on the earth.

    9 And they sung a NEW SONG, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

    10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

    11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;

    *ten thousand times ten thousand = 100k, and thousands of thousands = 44 = 144k

    ( Revelation 14:2-4) confirms it's the 144k from Revelation 5.

    2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

    3 And they sung as it were a NEW SONG before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

    4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

    Now the question becomes, what are the 144k doing at the seal opening when they themselves are sealed much later, before the day of the Lord, ( Revelation 7)? I notice a lot of 'first shall be last and last shall be first' patterns in Revelation. I got a feeling that that's what's happening here, it is esoteric. A grand mystery always unfolding.
  • LEON DAVIS - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 3 years ago
    Brother Chris, this is a continuation of the first post. Concerning Christ being Alpha, the first, the beginning, and firstborn of the creation, I would like you to consider to following postulate: Christ is the transformational means by which God's creative will becomes atomic matter. God is completely Spirit; therefore, His Spirit is an intrinsic element inside of every spiritual entity he creates (e.g. cherubim, angels). However, matter is a different realm, existing outside of God. Therefore, God united both realms by creating the physical body of Christ as the perfect hybrid which was 100% God and 100% matter. Christ became God's archetypical conversion chamber through which all created atomic matter proceeded. Therefore, the DNA of Christ is inside of all atomic matter. Rather, all created matter is inside of Christ, which is why Paul says, "For in Him we live, and move, and have our being." The creation works so harmoniously because Christ, or to be exact, His physical body, was the first created entity, and all the rest of creation contains His DNA. He, then, is the Masterful Conductor who causes all things to blend into a beautiful creative symphony.

    God's dictates all salvation-related events connected to His elect which occur throughout man's chronological journey on earth. His pre-ordained will is signified in the book which Christ comes to take out of the Father's hand in Revelation 5:1-7. It was written in God's created universe that Christ would be crucified should man fall before the first seal was opened and the story of man began. Therefore, Christ was the only one who open the book and begin the story of man for only His life could end the story with man living forever with God. Therefore, Christ had already been crucified in the spiritual realm and the elect were chosen before the foundation of the world ( Eph. 1:4,5, 11).
  • OSEAS - In Reply - 4 years ago
    Revelation 5:v.8-10KJV

    8 And when he -the Lamb- had taken the book, the four beasts -living beings- and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

    9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

    10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests:and we shall reign on the earth.- GOD's KINGDOM - Luke 20:35-36 and Revelation 11:v.15 to 18

    24 ELDERS

    Here goes the 24 elders showed in Revelation 4:v.4

    They are the 24 messengers of the Word (the Word is God), beginning by Moses:

    1 - Moses

    2 - Joshua

    3 - Samuel

    4 - Ezra

    5 - Nehemiah

    6 - Job

    7 - David

    8 - Solomon

    9 - Isaiah

    10 - Jeremiah

    11 - Ezekiel

    12 - Daniel

    13 - Hosea

    14 - Joel

    15 - Amos

    16 - Obadiah

    17 - Jonah

    18 - Micah

    19 - Nahum

    20 - Habakkuk

    21 - Zephaniah

    22 - Haggai

    23 - Zechariah

    24 - Malachi

    And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning

    before the throne, which are the SEVEN Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

    (What are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.?
  • Paul - 4 years ago
    Listen to those saints belt out a new song:

    Revelation 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

    Revelation 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundredandfortyandfour thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

    Revelation 15:3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellousarethy works, Lord God Almighty; just and truearethy ways, thou King of saints.
  • OSEAS - In Reply - 4 years ago
    Thank you for your reply, Denise. I enjoyed your comment. For me the subject is not so superficial, but very profound and linked to the invisible GOD, creator of the heavens (four heavens), and of the earth. Honestly, I like to decipher GOD's enigmas. (riddles)

    First, the Word is GOD. As you know, GOD-the Word-is Light- 1John 1:v.5. GOD said: Let there be light: and there was light-Gen.1:v.3. GOD has 7 Spirits- Revelation 5:v.6. By the way, there is a RAINBOW round about His throne-Rev.4:v.3. Again: The Word is GOD. Now see: God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good-Gen.1:v.11-12.

    That said: the colours you (or science) see in the terrestrial nature is a reflex of the 7 Spirits of GOD, for the Word is the Creator. The Word said: Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, ... and it was so. The Word is the Power, the Omniscient, and Omnipresent, and Ominipotent GOD. The King David knew GOD sos well. David said: "For He spake, and it was done; He commanded, and it stood fast- Psalm 33:v.9. Dearest Denise, the Word is the source of the true Science and of the Wisdom.

    The great MYSTERY revealed is the Word made flesh and was born JESUS, "In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge"- Colossians 2:v.3. Paul Apostle said to the church of Colosse: I would that ye knew what great conflict I have for you, and for them at Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh; That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the MYSTERY of God - Christ. Colossians 2:1-2.Amen.

    Honestly, I like to decipher GOD's enigmas.God blesses


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