I assume you mean Jehovah's Witnesses when you said JW's, but I assure you I am not. I understand many believe in the rapture of the Church, but I do not. I can't say that it's wrong; that would just lead to debate. We can share our understanding in hopes of inspiring each other to seek the truth.
Revelation is filled with images and visions given to John. In my understanding, if we look at Revelation 7, where people from the tribes of Israel and all nations that cannot be numbered are described, verses 14-17 refer to a time after everything is over, when God wipes away all our tears.
This is similar to what we see in Matthew 17 when Jesus took Peter, James, and John up on the mountain, where they saw Jesus' transfiguration. Jesus said it was a vision in verse 9. My understanding is that it was a vision because if Moses and Elijah were really there, Jesus would not be called the Firstfruits of those who slept, as mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15:20.
Looking at 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 it discusses the Lord's coming and the first resurrection. Paul also touches on this in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3. This coming is announced with a shout, the voice of the archangel, and the trump of God, as seen in Revelation 11.
In my view, in none of the verses regarding Jesus' second coming does it say He will carry the saints of the first resurrection back to heaven. My understanding is that all who are Christ's, when He returns, will be gathered to meet Him as He descends to earth, as described in Matthew 24:29-31, 1 Corinthians 15:52, at the last trump, and Revelation 11:15-18. We will reign with Him on earth, Revelation 5:10.
There are only two resurrections of the dead in Scripture: the first, in Revelation 20:4-6, and the second, in Revelation 20:11-15. My understanding is that Jesus does not return to heaven after He comes back; if He does, that would mean three resurrections.
How much time does Scripture give the beast? In Revelation 13, the beast, whom people call the antichrist, from the time he rises, he is only given 3.5 years, not 7 years, Revelation 13:5. This is after the war in heaven where Michael and his angels overcome and cast Satan and his angels down to earth, this is when the restraints are lifted, not the removal of the Church.
The beast is only given 42 months, which is 3.5 years, to make war against the saints and to overcome them, Revelation 13:7. If the church is removed, whom will he make war against? The resurrection of the dead is divided into two:
The resurrection of the righteous, which is the first resurrection and will happen at Christ's return, Revelation 19:11-16, Revelation 20:4-6.
Resurrection for the rest of the dead, which is the second resurrection, and will happen after the 1000 years of Christ's reign, Revelation 20:7-15.
The ones in the first resurrection will reign with Christ, where, Daniel 7:27, 2 Timothy 2:12Revelation 20:6, Revelation 5:9-10. When Jesus returns, He does not go back to heaven.
We see in Revelation 20:4 thrones, and judgment was given to those in the first resurrection. This is on earth, and we see those who were beheaded and did not take the mark or worship the beast, and these lived and reigned with Christ on earth for the 1000 years.
last trumpet is the seventh trumpet, the same trumpet in 1 Corinthians 15:52 and 1 Thessalonians 4:16. Jesus is coming to establish His kingdom on this earth.
It should be understood that the Bible clearly states that there are two comings of Jesus.
He came to die for the sins of mankind: this has been fulfilled.
Second Coming: coming to establish the kingdom of God/heaven. This is yet to happen. The resurrection of the righteous dead only happens at the second coming of Christ.
That could be true however there is a unique difference in the way Christ is presented to Lordship over the Church and Lordship in the Kingdom here on earth.
Christ Lordship is over our hearts without any written articles on tablets.
In the Kingdom Christ is ruling with a rod of iron.
In Revelation 12:5 we see the Israel presented as the woman and her children who shall rule the nations with a rod of iron. Christ.
The Church is never identified as the nations or inhabitants of the earth.
Deuteronomy 18:18-19 seems to fit Christ ruling here on earth with a rod of iron as presented in other scriptures and that is a fulfillment of the Davidic covenant.
"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him."
Other passages;
Revelation 2:27.
Revelation 19:15.
Isaiah 65:16-25 has much to say about this economy.
This echoes Psalms 2:6-9.
"Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
Scripture says the Church shall reign with Christ.
Revelation 20:6.
2 Timothy 2:12.
Revelation 5:10.
Luke 22:28-30.
The reigning is not a present reality but a future hope for believers.
Another aspect of the eternal purpose of God is that the Father, in love, gave to Jesus a people who Jesus' redeems and reconciles to the Godhead.
In truth God, by the will and decree of the Father, is pursuing with omnipotent delight a worldwide purpose of gathering a people for his name, which is Jesus, from every tribe and language and nation ( Revelation 5:9; 7:9). He has an inexhaustible enthusiasm for the fame of his Son among the nations.
1Peter 2:9-10
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
The ones who are given to the Son are the believers since they will come to Christ ( John 6:37), that Jesus will lose none of them ( John 6:39), will not be snatched out of Christ's hand ( John 10:29), will have eternal life ( John 17:2), and will be with Christ ( John 17:24). Therefore, we must conclude that the ones given to the Son are the Christians, the elect. They are the ones chosen for salvation ( 2 Thess. 2:13) and it is those whom Jesus came to redeem. Furthermore, since Jesus cannot fail to do the will of the Father, those who are given to the Son by the Father cannot be lost. Otherwise, Jesus will have failed to do the will of the Father.
The Father sent His Son, the Word, into the world in human flesh, to save, redeem (as a kinsman redeemer), and glorify a people chosen from humanity to the praise of the glory and grace of God in Christ. The Father calls Jesus His Beloved Son audibly in several places in the gospels. The Father, in love, decreed that all that would be done to accomplish His eternal purpose would be accomplished by the son, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit within time and history, even into eternity.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? ( Rev. 6:15-17).
No atheists in the Tribulation. I would affirm that is the case from the onset as we read in Revelation 5:13
"And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever."
This follows the ascension in Revelation 4 to heaven of John showing what must happen immediately after the mention of the churches in chapter 3 and 4; and the 24 elders seem to represent us as kings and priests mentioned elsewhere
Revelation 5:9-10 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
The theme here is that whatever side you are on spiritually determines the state of existence. I am certain we all know intrinsically where we are although many try to deny it now it will soon be clear.
Follows a brief explanation to support the my answer.
That is because Jesus will come to judge His own. The fact of He be the Judge of the Christians shows that there is judgment reserved for the believers, and not a condemnation automatic to the hell.
If we go to automatic to this point of reasoning and debate that occurring.
I will leave for who has more theology, but 2 verses of the Theological Base,
The Scripture affirms that:
"For it is necessary that all of us appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive according to the good or the bad that he may have done through the body."
- 2 Corinthians 5:10
In other words, even the saved Christians will be judged, not for eternal condemnation, but for giving of account. It is the Bma, the judgment seat of evaluation of the works of the saved. That implies that:
Even if there be sin and fall, the judgment of Christ separates what is true from the false.
The judgment is not automatic or "impersonal", but done by the One who died for us.
Besides that:
"The Lord knows the who are His"
- 2 Timothy 2:19
Jesus disciplines His children, and if someone is truly born again, even if fall gravely, will be treated with justice, mercy and correction. The lack of repentance visible may indicate that never there was true regeneration, but only God knows the heart.
Therefore, we must not presume automatically the eternal destiny of anyone, for only Christ is worthy to open the book and judge rightly ( Revelation 5:9).
Luke 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
The following verse describes the suddenness of the unexpected destruction to come. The same can be said in Thessalonians
where they "shall not escape"; we see in 1 Thessalonians 5:2 the concept of a thief and a snare in Luke 21:35.
These passages tend to dissuade many of the so called dreams and visions of a nuclear war about the time of the Rapture; at least immediately before it. What comes as sudden destruction no doubt could be a first phase of what eventually encompasses the earth in Armageddon; but generally the first seal offers a fallacious but convincing bloodless coup and no doubt mirrors the covenant with many in Daniel 9:27 already well underway for the eventual confirming with many. Is it impossible for nuclear war to accompany the Rapture? Somehow I don't see the Resurrection of the dead as being interrupted by such an event; if anything as to make clear that it wasn't bombs being dropped that left the holes in the ground in cemeteries around the world.
Also if we take literally Revelation 5:13 as to its timing it would seem that would be the main focus after the Rapture.
Who is Raptured? Clearly the easy answer is all the saints; at least of the Church Age who were God's children.
Ephesians 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. Let's look carefully into this concept. Those who have passed on have; in their souls already been at the Bema Seat of Christ; or they couldn't be present with the Lord. Many were through persecution on earth unlike those particularly in the Western world in the last couple generations. Considering the works that God has for us since before the creation of the world ( Eph. 2:10) it seems likely that God uses the Tribulation to purify many.
Revelation 5:6 - And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb. The word stood is in the Perfect Tense. A Lamb had been standing, as it had been slain, the appearance of the Lamb.
The word slain doesn't mean killed. It means butchered or slaughtered. We're going to see the marks of crucifixion. In John Chapter 20, after Jesus rose from the dead, you remember the invitation to Thomas who doubted the resurrection story, and Jesus invited him to come and put his finger in the prints in His hands, and to thrust his fist into His side, and to come and see that it is me.
So here we have a Lamb that had been standing there as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent forth into all the earth. In Daniel Chapter 7, we see that horns represent power and authority. And of course, the eyes, Zechariah tells us that the Messiah has seven eyes ( Zechariah 3:9, 4:10). The word seven means complete. It means that He is in complete authority, and He sees everything fully and completely.
Revelation 4:2 - And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
So immediately, listen to this, I became in spirit:
That's how it literally reads. There's no definite article (the) with it. Immediately I became in spirit. So physically and geographically, he was still on the island of Patmos. But he was caught up in the spirit realm.
And he says behold, a throne was set, or placed in heaven, and one sat upon the throne. So that was the transition going from the seven messages to the seven churches. John is now transferred to heaven that he might see the things that God wants him to see.
Revelation 5:4 - And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
He says, and I wept much. The word wept is in the Imperfect Tense. It shows continuous action. He was weeping convulsively. He saw no hope, even in heaven, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the scroll, neither to look therein. So, he wept.
Brother, of course I don't mind! This being an open forum, anything that's posted is open for anyone to comment. As I have mentioned to you before, I value the things you have to share, whether we differ in understanding or not.
As you mentioned, I do see that this little scroll in Revelation 2:10 was open but in Chapter 5 it speaks of a scroll that was sealed. So, does this mean that the book in Chapter 5 is not the same book we see in Chapter 10? Or, is it possible that the book had been opened, and then given to this messenger (mighty angel) to bring and show to John?
I tend to believe that this could be the same book. In Revelation 5:7, the Lamb came and took the book out of the right hand of Him that sat on the throne. In Verse 9, it tells us that He is worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof. So, do you think there's any possibility at all that this open scroll this mighty angel (Gabriel?) was holding in Chapter 10 was the same scroll opened by the Lamb in Chapter 5?
In Revelation 5:9, we see that the Lamb (Christ) is the redeemer. He has redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation. So, we know that it's not just Jewish but all people. We will be praising Him for being our redeemer, who has purchased the title deed to the earth, and our salvation.
What I find interesting in Chapter 10 is that this angel (messenger) comes in the authority of Christ. He has this small book (opened), and the position he takes in Verse 2 is the same posture or position one would take when claiming a title deed to a piece of property.
Again, thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. May we all continue to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
I am so sorry for not responding sooner as I see that I may have created some problems with what I posted. I will try and keep this short but will explain why I believe this is a property deed. First, we are told in Psalm 24:1 that "The earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof and all they that dwell therein." So yes, the earth and all creation does belong to God. If we purchase a piece of land, we might say "I own some land,' but the fact is that we really don't own it even if we have the title or deed to that land? It still belongs to God, not us.
There are a few reasons why I believe that the scroll in Revelation 10:2 is the property deed to the earth. It does not specifically say so, but it would seem logical. We see this book or scroll also mentioned in Revelation 5:1. Jeremiah Chapter 5 gives us some details, where Jeremiah presents the title or property deed. The instructions on the outside of the scroll would be who would be worthy to redeem the property. It seems as though we have a repeat of the book of Ruth, as we see the redeemer coming to redeem the property.
So here is a property deed, a title deed, apparently from the throne of God as a title deed to the earth. Who has the authority? Who has the right? Who is the redeemer who is qualified to come and take the title deed to the earth, and to break the scroll, and to look in it? Only the person who is qualified can take the scroll and look inside.
Revelation 5:6 - And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb. The word stood is in the Perfect Tense. A Lamb had been standing, as it had been slain, the appearance of the Lamb.
The word slain doesn't mean killed. It means butchered or slaughtered. We're going to see the marks of crucifixion. In John Chapter 20, after Jesus rose from the dead, you remember the invitation to Thomas who doubted the resurrection story, and Jesus invited him to come and put his finger in the prints in His hands, and to thrust his fist into His side, and to come and see that it is me.
So here we have a Lamb that had been standing there as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent forth into all the earth. In Daniel Chapter 7, we see that horns represent power and authority. And of course, the eyes, Zechariah tells us that the Messiah has seven eyes ( Zechariah 3:9, 4:10). The word seven means complete. It means that He is in complete authority, and He sees everything fully and completely.
Revelation 4:2 - And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
So immediately, listen to this, I became in spirit:
That's how it literally reads. There's no definite article (the) with it. Immediately I became in spirit. So physically and geographically, he was still on the island of Patmos. But he was caught up in the spirit realm.
And he says behold, a throne was set, or placed in heaven, and one sat upon the throne. So that was the transition going from the seven messages to the seven churches. John is now transferred to heaven that he might see the things that God wants him to see.
Revelation 5:4 - And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
He says, and I wept much. The word wept is in the Imperfect Tense. It shows continuous action. He was weeping convulsively. He saw no hope, even in heaven, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the scroll, neither to look therein. So, he wept.
Galatians 3:14 - That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Galatians 3:16 - Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Revelation 4:11 - Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
Revelation 5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
Revelation 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
Revelation 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
Revelation 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Revelation 5:12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
Revelation 5:13. And every creature which is in heaven, AND ON THE EARTH, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
Hey brother, I can see how that looks like Jesus made the decision Himself. In Hebrews 2:14 "he also himself likewise took part of the same". The word took is the Greek word metech means shared, share, partake of, a member of, my understanding is as the children were flesh and blood so was He. It is in line with Hebrews 2:17 "It behooved him to be made like unto his brethren".
The word for behooved is the Greek word opheilo meaning Jesus had to be made like His brethren, legally required, obligated to pay off a valid debt, we know what that debt was and man who had no sin was who had to pay it, Jesus gave His life a ransom to rescue us from God's wrath.
Agree with the Kinsman Redeemer that we now are considered fellow heirs, Jesus first came only for the lost sheep of Israel, Matthew 15:24. His blood was shed to pay the sin debt of those whom all will have faith in Him.
In verse 16 maybe Jesse or Giannis can help with that verse my understanding is Jesus taketh, not hold of angels, Jesus was not to save the fallen angels but to save the seed of Abraham, man. Not sure about that.
In Revelation 5:3-4 the word man is the Greek word oudeis means no one that could include any heavenly being or any earthly being.
My understanding of this chapter points to how Jesus was in all ways like us but without a sinful nature which is so clear to me in verses 17-18 and the start of chapter 3 and more.
"Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, "HE ALSO HIMSELF LIKEWISE TOOK PART OF THE SAME;"
(I'm not sure but in the English this looks like a conscious decision he made before he came into the world!
If so, here's the reason for the premeditated decision.)
"that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Jesus took on flesh to be our
Kinsman redeemer. (go el)
Hebrews 2:11-15.
As a Kinsman Redeemer If one of your fellow Israelites becomes poor and sells some of their property, their nearest relative is to come and redeem what they have sold" ( Leviticus 25:25). By definition, a kinsman-redeemer was someone who redeemed what was lost.
The kinsman who redeems or vindicates a relative is illustrated most clearly in the book of Ruth, where the kinsman-redeemer is Boaz.
Jesus came in the flesh to redeem what was lost in the Garden.
We are his brothern through our "new birth from above" but In Revelation 5:3-5 it had to be a man to open the book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. (This emphasizes a title deed.
In Revelation 5:9the redeemed sung a new song!
"And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast REDEEMED US to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
I believe you see this in the structure of the menorah.
We have the tendency to believe Man can get his act together if his conditions were to change and there were no outside influence from Satan.
We just need a great economy and time to evolve into Holy people as long as we're under the watch and providence of our great ruler, with even better odds than Adam and Eve had in the Garden or Israel had in the wilderness.
Atleast that would seem to be the case if Satan was bound.
No more evil influence from that deceiver!
Well scripture tells us that the nations of the WORLD will have just that.
Here's just a few verses
Isaiah 30:19-21.
Isaiah 65:17-24.
Amos 9:11-15.
Zechariah 14:16-19.
Revelation 5:10.
Isaiah 2:2-4.
This will happen here on earth during the Millennium when Satan is bound.
And when he's loosed he will deceive the nations again.
1Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? 2The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, 3Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
This prayer is basically synonymous with Revelation 19; and a host of other prophecies related to Christ's return in victory to rule and reign over the earth. The Tribulation itself begins just 7 years earlier with the Daniel 9:27 covenant "with many". The covenant with "death and hell" ( Isaiah 28:15 describing what the authors of this contract themselves proclaim at its inception).
It appears that the world may very well praise God if we take the verses in Revelation 5:3 literally. Once we get to the sixth seal in Revelation 6:12-15 we see men running from God's judgment; but after the Revelation 13 beast rises up and the False Prophet does his thing the world will take their mark of allegiance and in the end will be deceived by the 3 demons ( Rev. 16:13) and decide to fight against the Lord. That will be a consummation of a number of battles; not the least of which is the Ezekiel 38 war where everyone meets at Meddigo; probably beginning to fight one another; then turning on each other and fighting Christ.
Moving on; verses 4-7 say: He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
5Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
6Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Trying to focus this as it applied to David's understanding of what was a clearly prophetic message; we see how David was a sort of forerunner of the Messiah who would indeed be victorious over His foes and rule and reign. David is promised to rule with Him as well ( Jeremiah 30:9).
8And when he had taken the book,the four living beings and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb,having every one of them harps,and golden vials full of odours,which are the prayers of saints.
9And they sung a new song,saying,Thou art worthy to take the book,and to open the seals thereof:for thou wast slain,and hast redeemed us to GOD by thy blood out of every kindred,and tongue,and people,and nation;
10And hast made us unto our GOD kings and priests:and WE shall reign on the earth.(JESUS said:Mat.5:5 Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth).
Revelation 11:15-18
15And the seventh angel sounded;and there were great voices in heaven( Ephesians 1:3-8),saying,The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD(world of Devil)are become the kingdoms of our Lord,and of His Christ;and He shall reign for ever and ever. ( 1Corinthians 15:24-27
24Then the END come,when He shall have delivered up the Kingdom to GOD,even the Father;when He shall have PUT DOWN all rule and all authority and power.25For He must reign,till He hath put all enemies under His feet.26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death)
16And the four and twenty elders,which sat before GOD on their seats,fell upon their faces,and worshipped GOD,
17Saying,We give thee thanks,O Lord GOD Almighty,which art,and wast,and art to come;because thou hast taken to thee thy great power,and hast reigned.
18And the nations were(WILL be)angry,and thy wrath is come,and the time of the dead,that they should be Judged,and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets,and to the saints,and them that fear thy name,small and great;and should destroy them which destroy the earth
Re.13:4 & 9
4...who is able to make war with him?with the Beast
9If any man have an ear,let him hear
Re.21:8
8But the fearful(the COWARDS),and unbelieving,and the abominable,and murderers,and whoremongers,and sorcerers,and idolaters,and all liars,shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone
Thanks, brother, I did not intend to combine salvation issue and eschatology. I was just referring to it being an innate human nature to follow a crowd and taking the path of least resistance. I did not mean to base any truth on the majority or minority. I agree we can apply Matthew 7:13 with salvation but we can also apply it to what is being taught as in verse 15 is a warning of false prophets. This includes false teaching that is attractive and the larger the crowd the easier it is to deceive people.
I agree we should put Scripture above all that is taught out there for in them is the only truth, but many people do not, they just go with what they hear from a preacher, TV, YouTube, etc. Some never open a Bible and study and pray, asking God for the truth and the larger the follower's impact what they believe is the truth.
We can be deceived if we do not try the spirits, 1 John 4:1 that only comes from prayer and study being guided by the Holy Spirit. Hope this makes sense, we have discussed this before and this is not to debate we both know each other's understanding and I am not asking you but honestly, I have not found or have been shown one verse that out-and-out says we go or are taken to heaven that some teach.
I must disagree, I am not Amillennialism, I do not spiritualize Scripture, I believe in a literal 1000-year reign of Jesus with His chosen and faithful at His second coming, Revelation 5:10Revelation 20:4-6. Also, I do not believe the Church has replaced Israel. We are probably closer in our understanding of the end times than you think.
Hope you had a good vacation I guess you are on the road again.
8And when He comes, He will convict the world in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: 9in regard to sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father and you will no longer see Me; 11and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world has been condemned.
"And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever." ( Revelation 5:13)
"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." ( John 20:29).
Starting with the middle verse; I thought it interesting to consider that IF this is to be taken chronologically; IMMEDIATELY after the Rapture and before the onset of the first seal being opened; everyone will praise God and Christ. I had originally noted that this occurs at the sixth seal; when mankind runs away from God and realizes His judgments have begun. This brings to mind what was said in the passage from John; we don't want to wake up in the Tribulation and have to face the horrors of that time and martyrdom to boot which will be the basic change once everything is revealed; the church age is over and the saints are to be overcome ( Daniel 7:25).
The Spirit reflects Christ in its operation. When Jesus spoke it was often in regard to bringing out the full meaning of the law (lust and anger) as general teaching to the crowd; or specific allegations to a group of Pharisees in particular as well as lawyers.
The Spirit causes individuals to have a general conviction of sin because we have a sense of God's holiness against our own condition. The end result of sin is death ( Romans 6:23) and hell. Godly sorrow brings repentance (and life) worldly sorrow death.
WAR AGAINST THREE UNCLEAN SPIRITS LIKE FROGS-WHY FROGS?
The end of times has arrived and what the Devil intends to do as the father of the Jews( John 8:44), is to direct the current world under his rule towards a global environment that will facilitate the establishment of his much desired Universal Kingdom, his fifth Universal Kingdom, for which Satan has been working since ancient times starting with Abel's murder- Matthew 23:33-35.Take a look. GOD revealed to the king of Babylon through Daniel this desire of Satan by interpreting Nebuchadnezzar's dream: Daniel 2:41-43, but in verses 44 to 47 GOD reveals how He will destroy the Kingdom of the Devil, father of the Jews- JOHN 8:44.
There will be a TERRIBLE WAR from now on between GOD's people X Satan's people. Re.11:15 says: The KINGDOMS OF THIS WORLD are become the KINGDOMS of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever. ( Matthew 5:5 combined with Revelation 5:10).
But Satan as a God intends to do the same with global world ruled by him-2Thes.2:3-4&9-12 combined with Revelation 12, i.e. to establish his satanic Universal religious Kingdom.
The WAR will be against THREE UNCLEAN SPIRITS LIKE FROGS-WHY FROGS?
Revelation 16:13 to 16
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like FROGS come out of the mouth of the Dragon, and out of the mouth of the Beast, and out of the mouth of the False Prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of GOD Almighty.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Ar - mag - eddon.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. (Get ready)
Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
15We say unto you by the Word of the Lord,that we which are alive and remain unto the COMING of the Lord shall not prevent (precede) them which are asleep.
(Comment:Daniel prophesied:Dan.12:1
- At that time(END of Time) shall Michael stand up to fight against the red Dragon,whose satanic religious body has 7 heads,10 horns and a TAIL- Revelation 12:9-12;
- then there shall be a time of trouble (great tribulation), such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time( Matthew 24:21);
- and at that time(current time)thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book ( Revelation 7:1-14).
Furthermore,in this current time or now,even now,from now on,the Devil shall be cast down into the bottomless pit(Re.20:1-3).
Daniel 12:2-THERE WILL BE RESURRECTION SIMULTANEOUSLY
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake(according to the prophecy of Isaiah 26:19-21.Take a look), some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Comment: So, there also shall be resurrection in fulfillment of prophecy of Isaiah combined with 1Thessalonians 4:16, as follow:
16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout (shall descend from the 3rd heaven,we believers are still in the 2nd heaven-Ephesians1:3-8 combined with Philippians 3:20-21),with the voice of the archangel-MICHAEL- , and with the trump of GOD: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1 Thes. 4:17 - Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds( Isaiah 60:8, and 1Corinthians 15:51 combined with Philippians 3:20-21 and Revelation 5:8-14), to meet the Lord in the air(in the 3rd heavenly environment-3rd heaven-far above of the current second heaven- Luke 20:35-36 combined with Matthew 25:6): and so shall we ever be with the Lord.(Where?- Revelation 11:15-18 and Re. 5:10, and Matthew 5:5, and John 17:24. Take a look).
Ecclesiastes 7:29 KJV: Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.
We see similar references to God's creation of man such as in Psalm 139 and it seems clear that there is nothing wrong with God's design at least in how it was originally intended. Therefore even with the fallen nature due to Adam's sin that we all inherit even unregenerate man is responsible for his actions which are contrary to a nature in which "God has set eternity in their hearts." ( Ecclesiastes 3:11). Man originally was made in the image of God; now it may be argued that we bear some resemblance to what we were originally but now we are also in the image of man; that is of the physical appearance of our parents.
Another thing we must consider is how the great prophets all responded in the presence of God. We can examine Isaiah 6:5 as well as the Prophet Ezekiel and Daniel and John in Revelation 1. Even John recognized he wasn't worthy to open the seals and wept ( Revelation 5:4). Keep in mind that this was the Disciple closest to our Lord when He was physically on earth but he realized that only Christ was worthy. We therefore have value because of Him; it is His righteousness that gives us that.
That is why I prefer to view His righteousness as coming from the inside out; not as some cloak over us. There is indeed His perfection in a believer but also the vesiges of who we were even if in actuality not who we still are in light of the promised glorification. Again; only a TRUE believer can claim these promises; or more accurately can have Christ claim to be His own.
I get the sense that some who claim never to sin again think that they can be in God's presence without being flat on their faces. Going boldly into His presence still involves humility and is expressed by an intimate communication and fellowship between BOTH parties.
I am sure to start a fire on this one; praying these conversations can be edifying.
So Who is this Jesus? A creation from Mary's womb, another deity in Heaven alongside God, or from the Person of the One God Who was the Expression of God's Love through His Life & His Death. I believe that God sent forth that part of Himself, as He does with His Spirit, to become man "for the suffering of death" ( Hebrews 2:9). And now Jesus receives the worship as only God must receive ( Revelation 5:11-14), when prior to His incarnation, all Glory was His within the Person of the One God ( John 17:5).
Sorry for this long post - you had posed many good questions, which I'm unsure that fully dealt with your expectations. Blessings.
A look at the Pre Trib rapture and the madness to come
Revelation 5:12 describes those in heaven praising God but we also see evidence that ALL those on earth will also do the same; even those who are under the earth (possibly the dead souls in hades). I have said before that if the rapture is hidden the RESURRECTION of the dead saints from graves all over the world surely WON'T be able to remain hidden.
There are several themes in scripture that this reminds us of. First the state of all the angels praising God as seen in Job 38:7.
Lucifer fell AFTER this event; how quickly it is unknown but it may have seemed to be a shock to the 2/3 that remained faithful to their state of holiness to see 1/3 fall away with him ( Revelation 12:4 shows the end result). Of course the fall of man brought sudden issues as well. It didn't take long for the first murder to occur with Adam's firstborn son. And we could see shades of the same thing at the tower of Babel shortly after the flood.
What man will crave will be brought about; no doubt by Antichrist's delusion of peace at the first seal ( Rev. 6:1-2). This is going to appear to be a great light of hope (see 2 Cor. 11:14). Shades of the peace and security now will come to the climax with the Daniel 9:27 covenant being CONFIRMED or an original one made stronger (likely what is now known as the Abraham accords).
Whatever illusion of peace that comes will be short lived as the inevitable decay of society will result in the rest of the seal judgments of war; famine and pestilence to kill 1/4 of men (which appears to all occur BEFORE the mark of the Beast).
Those who end up following Antichrist will also worship the dragon (Satan) as seen in Rev. 13:14-18 who gives power to the Beast. They eventually end up fighting God as we see from Psalm 2 and Revelation 19.
Many have argued that out of fear men will be somehow tricked or coerced to take the mark. Revelation 13:8 seems to argue against this as WORSHIP occurs.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. (Combined with Matthew 5:5 and Revelation 5:10)
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
John 3:
31 ...He that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.
33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that GOD is true.
34 For he whom GOD hath sent speaketh the words of GOD: for GOD giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of GOD abideth on him.
I assume you mean Jehovah's Witnesses when you said JW's, but I assure you I am not. I understand many believe in the rapture of the Church, but I do not. I can't say that it's wrong; that would just lead to debate. We can share our understanding in hopes of inspiring each other to seek the truth.
Revelation is filled with images and visions given to John. In my understanding, if we look at Revelation 7, where people from the tribes of Israel and all nations that cannot be numbered are described, verses 14-17 refer to a time after everything is over, when God wipes away all our tears.
This is similar to what we see in Matthew 17 when Jesus took Peter, James, and John up on the mountain, where they saw Jesus' transfiguration. Jesus said it was a vision in verse 9. My understanding is that it was a vision because if Moses and Elijah were really there, Jesus would not be called the Firstfruits of those who slept, as mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15:20.
Looking at 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 it discusses the Lord's coming and the first resurrection. Paul also touches on this in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3. This coming is announced with a shout, the voice of the archangel, and the trump of God, as seen in Revelation 11.
In my view, in none of the verses regarding Jesus' second coming does it say He will carry the saints of the first resurrection back to heaven. My understanding is that all who are Christ's, when He returns, will be gathered to meet Him as He descends to earth, as described in Matthew 24:29-31, 1 Corinthians 15:52, at the last trump, and Revelation 11:15-18. We will reign with Him on earth, Revelation 5:10.
There are only two resurrections of the dead in Scripture: the first, in Revelation 20:4-6, and the second, in Revelation 20:11-15. My understanding is that Jesus does not return to heaven after He comes back; if He does, that would mean three resurrections.
God bless,
RLW
Part 2
How much time does Scripture give the beast? In Revelation 13, the beast, whom people call the antichrist, from the time he rises, he is only given 3.5 years, not 7 years, Revelation 13:5. This is after the war in heaven where Michael and his angels overcome and cast Satan and his angels down to earth, this is when the restraints are lifted, not the removal of the Church.
The beast is only given 42 months, which is 3.5 years, to make war against the saints and to overcome them, Revelation 13:7. If the church is removed, whom will he make war against? The resurrection of the dead is divided into two:
The resurrection of the righteous, which is the first resurrection and will happen at Christ's return, Revelation 19:11-16, Revelation 20:4-6.
Resurrection for the rest of the dead, which is the second resurrection, and will happen after the 1000 years of Christ's reign, Revelation 20:7-15.
The ones in the first resurrection will reign with Christ, where, Daniel 7:27, 2 Timothy 2:12 Revelation 20:6, Revelation 5:9-10. When Jesus returns, He does not go back to heaven.
We see in Revelation 20:4 thrones, and judgment was given to those in the first resurrection. This is on earth, and we see those who were beheaded and did not take the mark or worship the beast, and these lived and reigned with Christ on earth for the 1000 years.
last trumpet is the seventh trumpet, the same trumpet in 1 Corinthians 15:52 and 1 Thessalonians 4:16. Jesus is coming to establish His kingdom on this earth.
It should be understood that the Bible clearly states that there are two comings of Jesus.
He came to die for the sins of mankind: this has been fulfilled.
Second Coming: coming to establish the kingdom of God/heaven. This is yet to happen. The resurrection of the righteous dead only happens at the second coming of Christ.
See part 3.
That could be true however there is a unique difference in the way Christ is presented to Lordship over the Church and Lordship in the Kingdom here on earth.
Christ Lordship is over our hearts without any written articles on tablets.
In the Kingdom Christ is ruling with a rod of iron.
In Revelation 12:5 we see the Israel presented as the woman and her children who shall rule the nations with a rod of iron. Christ.
The Church is never identified as the nations or inhabitants of the earth.
Deuteronomy 18:18-19 seems to fit Christ ruling here on earth with a rod of iron as presented in other scriptures and that is a fulfillment of the Davidic covenant.
"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him."
Other passages;
Revelation 2:27.
Revelation 19:15.
Isaiah 65:16-25 has much to say about this economy.
This echoes Psalms 2:6-9.
"Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
Scripture says the Church shall reign with Christ.
Revelation 20:6.
2 Timothy 2:12.
Revelation 5:10.
Luke 22:28-30.
The reigning is not a present reality but a future hope for believers.
Blessings.
PT. 4
Another aspect of the eternal purpose of God is that the Father, in love, gave to Jesus a people who Jesus' redeems and reconciles to the Godhead.
In truth God, by the will and decree of the Father, is pursuing with omnipotent delight a worldwide purpose of gathering a people for his name, which is Jesus, from every tribe and language and nation ( Revelation 5:9; 7:9). He has an inexhaustible enthusiasm for the fame of his Son among the nations.
1Peter 2:9-10
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
The ones who are given to the Son are the believers since they will come to Christ ( John 6:37), that Jesus will lose none of them ( John 6:39), will not be snatched out of Christ's hand ( John 10:29), will have eternal life ( John 17:2), and will be with Christ ( John 17:24). Therefore, we must conclude that the ones given to the Son are the Christians, the elect. They are the ones chosen for salvation ( 2 Thess. 2:13) and it is those whom Jesus came to redeem. Furthermore, since Jesus cannot fail to do the will of the Father, those who are given to the Son by the Father cannot be lost. Otherwise, Jesus will have failed to do the will of the Father.
The Father sent His Son, the Word, into the world in human flesh, to save, redeem (as a kinsman redeemer), and glorify a people chosen from humanity to the praise of the glory and grace of God in Christ. The Father calls Jesus His Beloved Son audibly in several places in the gospels. The Father, in love, decreed that all that would be done to accomplish His eternal purpose would be accomplished by the son, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit within time and history, even into eternity.
See Pt. 5
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? ( Rev. 6:15-17).
No atheists in the Tribulation. I would affirm that is the case from the onset as we read in Revelation 5:13
"And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever."
This follows the ascension in Revelation 4 to heaven of John showing what must happen immediately after the mention of the churches in chapter 3 and 4; and the 24 elders seem to represent us as kings and priests mentioned elsewhere
Revelation 5:9-10 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
The theme here is that whatever side you are on spiritually determines the state of existence. I am certain we all know intrinsically where we are although many try to deny it now it will soon be clear.
Agape.
Follows a brief explanation to support the my answer.
That is because Jesus will come to judge His own. The fact of He be the Judge of the Christians shows that there is judgment reserved for the believers, and not a condemnation automatic to the hell.
If we go to automatic to this point of reasoning and debate that occurring.
I will leave for who has more theology, but 2 verses of the Theological Base,
The Scripture affirms that:
"For it is necessary that all of us appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive according to the good or the bad that he may have done through the body."
- 2 Corinthians 5:10
In other words, even the saved Christians will be judged, not for eternal condemnation, but for giving of account. It is the Bma, the judgment seat of evaluation of the works of the saved. That implies that:
Even if there be sin and fall, the judgment of Christ separates what is true from the false.
The judgment is not automatic or "impersonal", but done by the One who died for us.
Besides that:
"The Lord knows the who are His"
- 2 Timothy 2:19
Jesus disciplines His children, and if someone is truly born again, even if fall gravely, will be treated with justice, mercy and correction. The lack of repentance visible may indicate that never there was true regeneration, but only God knows the heart.
Therefore, we must not presume automatically the eternal destiny of anyone, for only Christ is worthy to open the book and judge rightly ( Revelation 5:9).
Luke 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
The following verse describes the suddenness of the unexpected destruction to come. The same can be said in Thessalonians
where they "shall not escape"; we see in 1 Thessalonians 5:2 the concept of a thief and a snare in Luke 21:35.
These passages tend to dissuade many of the so called dreams and visions of a nuclear war about the time of the Rapture; at least immediately before it. What comes as sudden destruction no doubt could be a first phase of what eventually encompasses the earth in Armageddon; but generally the first seal offers a fallacious but convincing bloodless coup and no doubt mirrors the covenant with many in Daniel 9:27 already well underway for the eventual confirming with many. Is it impossible for nuclear war to accompany the Rapture? Somehow I don't see the Resurrection of the dead as being interrupted by such an event; if anything as to make clear that it wasn't bombs being dropped that left the holes in the ground in cemeteries around the world.
Also if we take literally Revelation 5:13 as to its timing it would seem that would be the main focus after the Rapture.
Who is Raptured? Clearly the easy answer is all the saints; at least of the Church Age who were God's children.
Ephesians 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. Let's look carefully into this concept. Those who have passed on have; in their souls already been at the Bema Seat of Christ; or they couldn't be present with the Lord. Many were through persecution on earth unlike those particularly in the Western world in the last couple generations. Considering the works that God has for us since before the creation of the world ( Eph. 2:10) it seems likely that God uses the Tribulation to purify many.
Revelation 5:6 - And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb. The word stood is in the Perfect Tense. A Lamb had been standing, as it had been slain, the appearance of the Lamb.
The word slain doesn't mean killed. It means butchered or slaughtered. We're going to see the marks of crucifixion. In John Chapter 20, after Jesus rose from the dead, you remember the invitation to Thomas who doubted the resurrection story, and Jesus invited him to come and put his finger in the prints in His hands, and to thrust his fist into His side, and to come and see that it is me.
So here we have a Lamb that had been standing there as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent forth into all the earth. In Daniel Chapter 7, we see that horns represent power and authority. And of course, the eyes, Zechariah tells us that the Messiah has seven eyes ( Zechariah 3:9, 4:10). The word seven means complete. It means that He is in complete authority, and He sees everything fully and completely.
Revelation 4:2 - And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
So immediately, listen to this, I became in spirit:
That's how it literally reads. There's no definite article (the) with it. Immediately I became in spirit. So physically and geographically, he was still on the island of Patmos. But he was caught up in the spirit realm.
And he says behold, a throne was set, or placed in heaven, and one sat upon the throne. So that was the transition going from the seven messages to the seven churches. John is now transferred to heaven that he might see the things that God wants him to see.
Revelation 5:4 - And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
He says, and I wept much. The word wept is in the Imperfect Tense. It shows continuous action. He was weeping convulsively. He saw no hope, even in heaven, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the scroll, neither to look therein. So, he wept.
Brother, of course I don't mind! This being an open forum, anything that's posted is open for anyone to comment. As I have mentioned to you before, I value the things you have to share, whether we differ in understanding or not.
As you mentioned, I do see that this little scroll in Revelation 2:10 was open but in Chapter 5 it speaks of a scroll that was sealed. So, does this mean that the book in Chapter 5 is not the same book we see in Chapter 10? Or, is it possible that the book had been opened, and then given to this messenger (mighty angel) to bring and show to John?
I tend to believe that this could be the same book. In Revelation 5:7, the Lamb came and took the book out of the right hand of Him that sat on the throne. In Verse 9, it tells us that He is worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof. So, do you think there's any possibility at all that this open scroll this mighty angel (Gabriel?) was holding in Chapter 10 was the same scroll opened by the Lamb in Chapter 5?
In Revelation 5:9, we see that the Lamb (Christ) is the redeemer. He has redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation. So, we know that it's not just Jewish but all people. We will be praising Him for being our redeemer, who has purchased the title deed to the earth, and our salvation.
What I find interesting in Chapter 10 is that this angel (messenger) comes in the authority of Christ. He has this small book (opened), and the position he takes in Verse 2 is the same posture or position one would take when claiming a title deed to a piece of property.
Again, thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. May we all continue to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
God Bless!!!
I am so sorry for not responding sooner as I see that I may have created some problems with what I posted. I will try and keep this short but will explain why I believe this is a property deed. First, we are told in Psalm 24:1 that "The earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof and all they that dwell therein." So yes, the earth and all creation does belong to God. If we purchase a piece of land, we might say "I own some land,' but the fact is that we really don't own it even if we have the title or deed to that land? It still belongs to God, not us.
There are a few reasons why I believe that the scroll in Revelation 10:2 is the property deed to the earth. It does not specifically say so, but it would seem logical. We see this book or scroll also mentioned in Revelation 5:1. Jeremiah Chapter 5 gives us some details, where Jeremiah presents the title or property deed. The instructions on the outside of the scroll would be who would be worthy to redeem the property. It seems as though we have a repeat of the book of Ruth, as we see the redeemer coming to redeem the property.
So here is a property deed, a title deed, apparently from the throne of God as a title deed to the earth. Who has the authority? Who has the right? Who is the redeemer who is qualified to come and take the title deed to the earth, and to break the scroll, and to look in it? Only the person who is qualified can take the scroll and look inside.
Out of space, will send more
Thanks for your help and I agree completely.
- Genesis 38 (Judah and Tamar)
- Joshua 2 (the prostitute Rahab)
- Ruth 2 (the rescuer Boaz)
- 2 Samuel 11 (David and Uriah's wife)
- Genesis 37 (Joseph is sold into Egypt)
- Revelation 5:5 (Jesus is the Lion of the Tribe of Judah)
- Genesis 49:9 (Judah is called a "young lion" = son of a lion)
- Isaiah 7:14 (Prophecy of the coming of the Messiah "Immanuel")
- John 7:5 & Mark 3:31 (Jesus had blood brothers, children that Joseph and Mary had after His birth)
God bless you.
Revelation 5:6 - And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb. The word stood is in the Perfect Tense. A Lamb had been standing, as it had been slain, the appearance of the Lamb.
The word slain doesn't mean killed. It means butchered or slaughtered. We're going to see the marks of crucifixion. In John Chapter 20, after Jesus rose from the dead, you remember the invitation to Thomas who doubted the resurrection story, and Jesus invited him to come and put his finger in the prints in His hands, and to thrust his fist into His side, and to come and see that it is me.
So here we have a Lamb that had been standing there as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent forth into all the earth. In Daniel Chapter 7, we see that horns represent power and authority. And of course, the eyes, Zechariah tells us that the Messiah has seven eyes ( Zechariah 3:9, 4:10). The word seven means complete. It means that He is in complete authority, and He sees everything fully and completely.
Revelation 4:2 - And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
So immediately, listen to this, I became in spirit:
That's how it literally reads. There's no definite article (the) with it. Immediately I became in spirit. So physically and geographically, he was still on the island of Patmos. But he was caught up in the spirit realm.
And he says behold, a throne was set, or placed in heaven, and one sat upon the throne. So that was the transition going from the seven messages to the seven churches. John is now transferred to heaven that he might see the things that God wants him to see.
Revelation 5:4 - And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
He says, and I wept much. The word wept is in the Imperfect Tense. It shows continuous action. He was weeping convulsively. He saw no hope, even in heaven, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the scroll, neither to look therein. So, he wept.
Galatians 3:14 - That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Galatians 3:16 - Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Revelation 4:11 - Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
Revelation 5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
Revelation 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
Revelation 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
Revelation 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Revelation 5:12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
Revelation 5:13
Revelation 5:13. And every creature which is in heaven, AND ON THE EARTH, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
We're all in this together. Amen
God bless
You Stated;
The word took is the Greek word metech means shared, share, partake of, a member of,
It all means the same, there's no way to turn it from the truth.
Jesus is preexisting and partook in the decision.
And Revelation 5:3-4 is plain and needs no helps to interpret it.
I would have to take it for what it says.
"And no MAN IN HEAVEN, NOR IN EARTH, NEITHER UNDER THE EARTH, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
And I wept much, because NO MAN WAS FOUND WORTHY to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
We have been through that portion of scripture before on whether we go to Heaven or not.
There's no need in going in circles.
I'm sure we will cross paths again with this topic because most of what we read centers around the deity of Christ.
And what I mean deity is that Jesus is God.
My view is clearly expressed and you have made yours clear.
Let's move on and agree to disagree again.
God bless.
Hey brother, I can see how that looks like Jesus made the decision Himself. In Hebrews 2:14 "he also himself likewise took part of the same". The word took is the Greek word metech means shared, share, partake of, a member of, my understanding is as the children were flesh and blood so was He. It is in line with Hebrews 2:17 "It behooved him to be made like unto his brethren".
The word for behooved is the Greek word opheilo meaning Jesus had to be made like His brethren, legally required, obligated to pay off a valid debt, we know what that debt was and man who had no sin was who had to pay it, Jesus gave His life a ransom to rescue us from God's wrath.
Agree with the Kinsman Redeemer that we now are considered fellow heirs, Jesus first came only for the lost sheep of Israel, Matthew 15:24. His blood was shed to pay the sin debt of those whom all will have faith in Him.
In verse 16 maybe Jesse or Giannis can help with that verse my understanding is Jesus taketh, not hold of angels, Jesus was not to save the fallen angels but to save the seed of Abraham, man. Not sure about that.
In Revelation 5:3-4 the word man is the Greek word oudeis means no one that could include any heavenly being or any earthly being.
My understanding of this chapter points to how Jesus was in all ways like us but without a sinful nature which is so clear to me in verses 17-18 and the start of chapter 3 and more.
Have a good and safe week, God bless,
RLW
"Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, "HE ALSO HIMSELF LIKEWISE TOOK PART OF THE SAME;"
(I'm not sure but in the English this looks like a conscious decision he made before he came into the world!
If so, here's the reason for the premeditated decision.)
"that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Jesus took on flesh to be our
Kinsman redeemer. (go el)
Hebrews 2:11-15.
As a Kinsman Redeemer If one of your fellow Israelites becomes poor and sells some of their property, their nearest relative is to come and redeem what they have sold" ( Leviticus 25:25). By definition, a kinsman-redeemer was someone who redeemed what was lost.
The kinsman who redeems or vindicates a relative is illustrated most clearly in the book of Ruth, where the kinsman-redeemer is Boaz.
Jesus came in the flesh to redeem what was lost in the Garden.
We are his brothern through our "new birth from above" but In Revelation 5:3-5 it had to be a man to open the book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. (This emphasizes a title deed.
In Revelation 5:9the redeemed sung a new song!
"And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast REDEEMED US to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Blessings.
The number of Man is 6.
The number 7 is completeness.
Man is incomplete without God.
I believe you see this in the structure of the menorah.
We have the tendency to believe Man can get his act together if his conditions were to change and there were no outside influence from Satan.
We just need a great economy and time to evolve into Holy people as long as we're under the watch and providence of our great ruler, with even better odds than Adam and Eve had in the Garden or Israel had in the wilderness.
Atleast that would seem to be the case if Satan was bound.
No more evil influence from that deceiver!
Well scripture tells us that the nations of the WORLD will have just that.
Here's just a few verses
Isaiah 30:19-21.
Isaiah 65:17-24.
Amos 9:11-15.
Zechariah 14:16-19.
Revelation 5:10.
Isaiah 2:2-4.
This will happen here on earth during the Millennium when Satan is bound.
And when he's loosed he will deceive the nations again.
Revelation 20:1-8.
Note: This is not the Church!
More on Satan and Eden next.
God bless.
Starting in verses 1-3 we read:
1Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? 2The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, 3Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
This prayer is basically synonymous with Revelation 19; and a host of other prophecies related to Christ's return in victory to rule and reign over the earth. The Tribulation itself begins just 7 years earlier with the Daniel 9:27 covenant "with many". The covenant with "death and hell" ( Isaiah 28:15 describing what the authors of this contract themselves proclaim at its inception).
It appears that the world may very well praise God if we take the verses in Revelation 5:3 literally. Once we get to the sixth seal in Revelation 6:12-15 we see men running from God's judgment; but after the Revelation 13 beast rises up and the False Prophet does his thing the world will take their mark of allegiance and in the end will be deceived by the 3 demons ( Rev. 16:13) and decide to fight against the Lord. That will be a consummation of a number of battles; not the least of which is the Ezekiel 38 war where everyone meets at Meddigo; probably beginning to fight one another; then turning on each other and fighting Christ.
Moving on; verses 4-7 say: He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
5Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
6Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Trying to focus this as it applied to David's understanding of what was a clearly prophetic message; we see how David was a sort of forerunner of the Messiah who would indeed be victorious over His foes and rule and reign. David is promised to rule with Him as well ( Jeremiah 30:9).
8And when he had taken the book,the four living beings and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb,having every one of them harps,and golden vials full of odours,which are the prayers of saints.
9And they sung a new song,saying,Thou art worthy to take the book,and to open the seals thereof:for thou wast slain,and hast redeemed us to GOD by thy blood out of every kindred,and tongue,and people,and nation;
10And hast made us unto our GOD kings and priests:and WE shall reign on the earth.(JESUS said:Mat.5:5 Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth).
Revelation 11:15-18
15And the seventh angel sounded;and there were great voices in heaven( Ephesians 1:3-8),saying,The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD(world of Devil)are become the kingdoms of our Lord,and of His Christ;and He shall reign for ever and ever. ( 1Corinthians 15:24-27
24Then the END come,when He shall have delivered up the Kingdom to GOD,even the Father;when He shall have PUT DOWN all rule and all authority and power.25For He must reign,till He hath put all enemies under His feet.26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death)
16And the four and twenty elders,which sat before GOD on their seats,fell upon their faces,and worshipped GOD,
17Saying,We give thee thanks,O Lord GOD Almighty,which art,and wast,and art to come;because thou hast taken to thee thy great power,and hast reigned.
18And the nations were(WILL be)angry,and thy wrath is come,and the time of the dead,that they should be Judged,and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets,and to the saints,and them that fear thy name,small and great;and should destroy them which destroy the earth
Re.13:4 & 9
4...who is able to make war with him?with the Beast
9If any man have an ear,let him hear
Re.21:8
8But the fearful(the COWARDS),and unbelieving,and the abominable,and murderers,and whoremongers,and sorcerers,and idolaters,and all liars,shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone
Thanks, brother, I did not intend to combine salvation issue and eschatology. I was just referring to it being an innate human nature to follow a crowd and taking the path of least resistance. I did not mean to base any truth on the majority or minority. I agree we can apply Matthew 7:13 with salvation but we can also apply it to what is being taught as in verse 15 is a warning of false prophets. This includes false teaching that is attractive and the larger the crowd the easier it is to deceive people.
I agree we should put Scripture above all that is taught out there for in them is the only truth, but many people do not, they just go with what they hear from a preacher, TV, YouTube, etc. Some never open a Bible and study and pray, asking God for the truth and the larger the follower's impact what they believe is the truth.
We can be deceived if we do not try the spirits, 1 John 4:1 that only comes from prayer and study being guided by the Holy Spirit. Hope this makes sense, we have discussed this before and this is not to debate we both know each other's understanding and I am not asking you but honestly, I have not found or have been shown one verse that out-and-out says we go or are taken to heaven that some teach.
I must disagree, I am not Amillennialism, I do not spiritualize Scripture, I believe in a literal 1000-year reign of Jesus with His chosen and faithful at His second coming, Revelation 5:10 Revelation 20:4-6. Also, I do not believe the Church has replaced Israel. We are probably closer in our understanding of the end times than you think.
Hope you had a good vacation I guess you are on the road again.
God bless,
RLW
8And when He comes, He will convict the world in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: 9in regard to sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father and you will no longer see Me; 11and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world has been condemned.
"And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever." ( Revelation 5:13)
"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." ( John 20:29).
Starting with the middle verse; I thought it interesting to consider that IF this is to be taken chronologically; IMMEDIATELY after the Rapture and before the onset of the first seal being opened; everyone will praise God and Christ. I had originally noted that this occurs at the sixth seal; when mankind runs away from God and realizes His judgments have begun. This brings to mind what was said in the passage from John; we don't want to wake up in the Tribulation and have to face the horrors of that time and martyrdom to boot which will be the basic change once everything is revealed; the church age is over and the saints are to be overcome ( Daniel 7:25).
The Spirit reflects Christ in its operation. When Jesus spoke it was often in regard to bringing out the full meaning of the law (lust and anger) as general teaching to the crowd; or specific allegations to a group of Pharisees in particular as well as lawyers.
The Spirit causes individuals to have a general conviction of sin because we have a sense of God's holiness against our own condition. The end result of sin is death ( Romans 6:23) and hell. Godly sorrow brings repentance (and life) worldly sorrow death.
The end of times has arrived and what the Devil intends to do as the father of the Jews( John 8:44), is to direct the current world under his rule towards a global environment that will facilitate the establishment of his much desired Universal Kingdom, his fifth Universal Kingdom, for which Satan has been working since ancient times starting with Abel's murder- Matthew 23:33-35.Take a look. GOD revealed to the king of Babylon through Daniel this desire of Satan by interpreting Nebuchadnezzar's dream: Daniel 2:41-43, but in verses 44 to 47 GOD reveals how He will destroy the Kingdom of the Devil, father of the Jews- JOHN 8:44.
There will be a TERRIBLE WAR from now on between GOD's people X Satan's people. Re.11:15 says: The KINGDOMS OF THIS WORLD are become the KINGDOMS of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever. ( Matthew 5:5 combined with Revelation 5:10).
But Satan as a God intends to do the same with global world ruled by him-2Thes.2:3-4&9-12 combined with Revelation 12, i.e. to establish his satanic Universal religious Kingdom.
The WAR will be against THREE UNCLEAN SPIRITS LIKE FROGS-WHY FROGS?
Revelation 16:13 to 16
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like FROGS come out of the mouth of the Dragon, and out of the mouth of the Beast, and out of the mouth of the False Prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of GOD Almighty.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Ar - mag - eddon.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. (Get ready)
Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Wake up, quick, and get ready
Paul prophesied:1Tessalonians 4:15
15We say unto you by the Word of the Lord,that we which are alive and remain unto the COMING of the Lord shall not prevent (precede) them which are asleep.
(Comment:Daniel prophesied:Dan.12:1
- At that time(END of Time) shall Michael stand up to fight against the red Dragon,whose satanic religious body has 7 heads,10 horns and a TAIL- Revelation 12:9-12;
- then there shall be a time of trouble (great tribulation), such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time( Matthew 24:21);
- and at that time(current time)thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book ( Revelation 7:1-14).
Furthermore,in this current time or now,even now,from now on,the Devil shall be cast down into the bottomless pit(Re.20:1-3).
Daniel 12:2-THERE WILL BE RESURRECTION SIMULTANEOUSLY
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake(according to the prophecy of Isaiah 26:19-21.Take a look), some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Comment: So, there also shall be resurrection in fulfillment of prophecy of Isaiah combined with 1Thessalonians 4:16, as follow:
16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout (shall descend from the 3rd heaven,we believers are still in the 2nd heaven-Ephesians1:3-8 combined with Philippians 3:20-21),with the voice of the archangel-MICHAEL- , and with the trump of GOD: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1 Thes. 4:17 - Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds( Isaiah 60:8, and 1Corinthians 15:51 combined with Philippians 3:20-21 and Revelation 5:8-14), to meet the Lord in the air(in the 3rd heavenly environment-3rd heaven-far above of the current second heaven- Luke 20:35-36 combined with Matthew 25:6): and so shall we ever be with the Lord.(Where?- Revelation 11:15-18 and Re. 5:10, and Matthew 5:5, and John 17:24. Take a look).
That's for your meditation
We see similar references to God's creation of man such as in Psalm 139 and it seems clear that there is nothing wrong with God's design at least in how it was originally intended. Therefore even with the fallen nature due to Adam's sin that we all inherit even unregenerate man is responsible for his actions which are contrary to a nature in which "God has set eternity in their hearts." ( Ecclesiastes 3:11). Man originally was made in the image of God; now it may be argued that we bear some resemblance to what we were originally but now we are also in the image of man; that is of the physical appearance of our parents.
Another thing we must consider is how the great prophets all responded in the presence of God. We can examine Isaiah 6:5 as well as the Prophet Ezekiel and Daniel and John in Revelation 1. Even John recognized he wasn't worthy to open the seals and wept ( Revelation 5:4). Keep in mind that this was the Disciple closest to our Lord when He was physically on earth but he realized that only Christ was worthy. We therefore have value because of Him; it is His righteousness that gives us that.
That is why I prefer to view His righteousness as coming from the inside out; not as some cloak over us. There is indeed His perfection in a believer but also the vesiges of who we were even if in actuality not who we still are in light of the promised glorification. Again; only a TRUE believer can claim these promises; or more accurately can have Christ claim to be His own.
I get the sense that some who claim never to sin again think that they can be in God's presence without being flat on their faces. Going boldly into His presence still involves humility and is expressed by an intimate communication and fellowship between BOTH parties.
I am sure to start a fire on this one; praying these conversations can be edifying.
So Who is this Jesus? A creation from Mary's womb, another deity in Heaven alongside God, or from the Person of the One God Who was the Expression of God's Love through His Life & His Death. I believe that God sent forth that part of Himself, as He does with His Spirit, to become man "for the suffering of death" ( Hebrews 2:9). And now Jesus receives the worship as only God must receive ( Revelation 5:11-14), when prior to His incarnation, all Glory was His within the Person of the One God ( John 17:5).
Sorry for this long post - you had posed many good questions, which I'm unsure that fully dealt with your expectations. Blessings.
Revelation 5:12 describes those in heaven praising God but we also see evidence that ALL those on earth will also do the same; even those who are under the earth (possibly the dead souls in hades). I have said before that if the rapture is hidden the RESURRECTION of the dead saints from graves all over the world surely WON'T be able to remain hidden.
There are several themes in scripture that this reminds us of. First the state of all the angels praising God as seen in Job 38:7.
Lucifer fell AFTER this event; how quickly it is unknown but it may have seemed to be a shock to the 2/3 that remained faithful to their state of holiness to see 1/3 fall away with him ( Revelation 12:4 shows the end result). Of course the fall of man brought sudden issues as well. It didn't take long for the first murder to occur with Adam's firstborn son. And we could see shades of the same thing at the tower of Babel shortly after the flood.
What man will crave will be brought about; no doubt by Antichrist's delusion of peace at the first seal ( Rev. 6:1-2). This is going to appear to be a great light of hope (see 2 Cor. 11:14). Shades of the peace and security now will come to the climax with the Daniel 9:27 covenant being CONFIRMED or an original one made stronger (likely what is now known as the Abraham accords).
Whatever illusion of peace that comes will be short lived as the inevitable decay of society will result in the rest of the seal judgments of war; famine and pestilence to kill 1/4 of men (which appears to all occur BEFORE the mark of the Beast).
Those who end up following Antichrist will also worship the dragon (Satan) as seen in Rev. 13:14-18 who gives power to the Beast. They eventually end up fighting God as we see from Psalm 2 and Revelation 19.
Many have argued that out of fear men will be somehow tricked or coerced to take the mark. Revelation 13:8 seems to argue against this as WORSHIP occurs.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. (Combined with Matthew 5:5 and Revelation 5:10)
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
John 3:
31 ...He that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.
33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that GOD is true.
34 For he whom GOD hath sent speaketh the words of GOD: for GOD giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of GOD abideth on him.