Revelation
King James Version (KJV)
Discuss Revelation 2 Page 9
Viewing page: 9 of 18
< Previous Discussion Page Next Discussion Page >
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18
Do you have a Bible comment or question?
Posting comments is currently unavailable due to high demand on the server.
Please check back in an hour or more. Thank you for your patience!
There are no temporary Christians.At the point you trust Christ to have paid for your sins,you are forgiven of all sins,past,present and future.I liken salvation to a person who is crossing a busy road.At some point between the curbs the person is suddenly hurled forward and out of the road.When they turn back to see what has happened,they find that someone has pushed them out of the path of a vehicle that would surely have killed them.Where they were,is the body of that person who gave his life for them.Recognizing that person was gracious to them and saved them,they want to know more about him and revere him in their life as gratitude for what he did.There is no doubt in their mind about what it was he did for them,as the experience was real for them.Despite their recount of the event,other people who never had that happen to them,question the verity of the story.It is not until they themselves are saved,no longer between the curbs on a road,can they lend some understanding to the truth of the story.
There are two judgements from God in the future.One is at the Great White Throne,where unsaved people answer to God for the life they lived.( Revelation 20:11-15)The other judgement is for Christians,called the Judgement Seat of Christ.( 2Corinthians 5:8-11 & 1Corinthians 3:9-15)) At that judgement,Christ will examine the" works"of believers and reward them accordingly.Saved people,in their desire to repay God for salvation,will do many things,only some of which are indeed what God wants them to do.Other things are their own works,which will never measure up to the standard of,being of God,and the rebuke of Christ then,is gladly received,only this once,and never again to be judged.Corinthians 6:1"We then,as workers together with him,beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain. In vain,would be to minimize Christ's work,by adding yours to it so as to save your soul.
"I know whom",1Timothy1:12,and I pray that you do, or will come to also.
My view of the true Christian's walk is not one of uncertainty, allowing for the possibility to veer off the path leading to Heaven, whether to exit off completely or to bring ourselves back onto the correct path. I understand, that to be a Christian has & will always be a work of God. If we fail to 'stay on the true path' preferring to exit off it, then we haven't been saved through the Cross, that we haven't come in true repentance & full faith but for some other reason (of which there are many). So the Scripture that tells us, "he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." ( Mt 24:13), is of course the ultimate proof of one's salvation but not to cause us to wonder whether we're actually saved in the meanwhile.
One of the greatest deceptions in Christendom is that of what all other religions preach: i.e. 'one cannot be certain of being acceptable to God & only the final day will reveal this'. The power of the Cross gives a sinner both a complete forgiveness of sins & also a certainty of Heaven - there is no possibility that whom God forgives, saves, seals & accepts as His very own, will ever be lost back into the world, nor would the Christian ever contemplate leaving what God has done in him. If the Christian should err into sin, he knows it & turns away - no Christian can live a life of sin - he would have to do a re-examination of his life or if he continues in disobedience, that he be "delivered unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." ( 1 Corinthians 5:5).
Scriptures are numerous which assure a Christian of the certainty of his salvation: not what he has done to get to God, but what God has done to secure a lost life. 1 John 5:13 is the surety we have to always belong to Him.
I will offer my opinion. Even in the days when Paul wrote the letters there was confusion, which is why Paul wrote so much about the subject of salvation, works, and grace. People often take one portion then draw assumptions, while forgetting the rest. It all needs to be taken as a whole for a proper perspective, in my opinion. Either extreme side can be abused- someone who claims he's saved may intentionally sin and claim it's ok, which is contrary to what Jesus said. Jesus, however, also got upset at the pharisees who were extremely law abiding, while missing the whole point about loving God and loving others, so they were wrong too.
I might also challenge the assumption of someone being 'saved'. Are Christians truly saved now before judgment day? I think people are judged on judgment day THEN saved. What is a Christian? A Christ-follower. What does that mean? It's an action- a verb- to actively follow Christ. That involves movement, growth, change. The Bible is filled with challenges for ourselves to constantly improve our Christian walk. So, I look it as someone driving down a freeway heading in a certain direction- toward Jesus. We may hit bumps in the road, we may swerve, we may even get a flat tire and stop temporarily, but if we still continue toward Jesus then we are a real Christian with our sins covered by grace. However, if we as a Christian get deceived and exit off, turn around and start heading the opposite direction to the world of sin and evil, and intentionally denounces the faith, then I no longer believe a Christian is covered by grace or saved.
Hebrews 10:26
God bless you!
If saved person commits sin after he was saved, does he remain saved to the end? Is his name not written in the Book of Life at his salvation? Can his name be stricken from the book? If so, for what reasons? If he simply repents can his name be added back at that moment? Or, does he have to be judged on the day of judgement to be added back? I am truly lost on scriptures regarding once saved, always saved! After judgement, then Jesus makes the final decision right? How does this all work?
Through Adams fall, that spiritual connection (life) was forfeited until The Death of Jesus paid for the sins of every human being ever born. "God so loved the World..."
Unbelievers are walking spiritually dead.
We must be born again. The gift of spiritual life cannot be given until the the spiritually dead Receive the Gift...which is Jesus Christ. We receive this life by pure faith. And then the Holy Spirit comes alongside the receiver of the Gift, to reveal Jesus's life in us.
He lives on the throne of our newborn, spiritually connected hearts. The more of our life we give to Jesus; the more of His life he will reveal to you. In the Book of Revelation it is called, First Love. Revelation 2:4
Mishael
Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Luke 12:8
Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:
Romans 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
1 John 4:15
Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
John 12:42
Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:
Romans 14:11
For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Philippians 2:11
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
2 John 1:7
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Revelation 3:5
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Romans 15:9
And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.
John 9:22
These words spake his parents, because they feared the Jews: for the Jews had agreed already, that if any man did confess that he was Christ, he should be put out of the synagogue.
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Mainly because it makes me feel bad when people condemn each other over this. Do you find anything false in it? So my post is an example of why there are 200 denominations in Christianity? Well I guess you can blame it on me. If anything I posted offended you, forgive me my brother. I apologize.
Note: Water can exist in three forms: Solid, liquid and gas. What is common among these forms -- They all contain 2 hydrogens and 1 oxygen. But we don't call them by different names. Why? Because its still water.
Another example --- The disciples in the book of Acts baptized in the name of Jesus Christ; this fulfilled the scriptures that Jesus told them to baptize in the 'name' of the Father, and of the Son and the Holy Spirit..... What name should we baptize in? The 12 disciples who became apostles baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Is this a coincidence? No. The Holy Spirit revealed to them the Oneness of God. When you're not baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, your sins have not been remitted (forgiven).
Yes, the priests are the focus here, as those who should have given out the knowledge of God through His Laws, thereby bringing restraint by the people towards such rampant sin, but failed to do so. As a result, both man & his land will be destroyed (taken away into Assyrian captivity) as punishment when they should have rather come to their senses & enjoyed the full blessings of God. How much we also deny ourselves by not following hard after the Lord by giving Him second place in our lives, when we have all the blessings of Heaven at our disposal & enjoyment.
There is only one God our Father. Should we not honor the Son as we honor the Father? Like we're told. Does not Jesus Christ have all the power and authority of the Father? Given to Him by the Father. I myself don't believe Jesus Christ is God the Father but that the Father is in Him and He in the Father. I also believe in the deity of Christ that He was with the Father before He came to earth. Like He says. Can I explain all this? No. That's what I believe and it all came to me through the Holy Bible.
A couple verses showing God the Father is not Jesus Christ:
Matthew 26:39 And He went a little further, and fell on His face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from Me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
John 8:17-18, 17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18 I am one that bear witness of Myself, and the Father that sent Me beareth witness of Me.
Hebrews 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, today have I begotten thee.
Hebrews 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us
( 2 Peter 1:17-18, 17 For He received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to Him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with Him in the holy mount.
Why can't some believe in two, plus the Holy Ghost, which is three in this new covenant? One God.
The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
Isaiah 40:3-5 - The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain:
And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
Malachi 2:17 Ye have wearied the LORD with your words. Yet ye say, Wherein have we wearied him? When ye say, Every one that doeth evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and he delighteth in them; or,
( Where is the God of judgment? ) ""Notice ch 3.1."" Malachi 3:1 (KJV) Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts. ""Now let's tie this together with a few more verses"" ( Isaiah 40:3-The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.) Now let's see who came as these 2 characters. Matthew 11:10 - ( For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.) John the baptists came in the office of Elijah and God came manifested in the flesh. ( If he didn't Malachi, Isaiah and Jesus got it wrong. )
Revelation 20:1-15 - And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. (Read More...)
Revelation 20:7 - And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Isaiah 2:2-4 - And it shall come to pass in the last days, [that] the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. (Read More...)
Isaiah 65:25 - The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust [shall be] the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.
Matthew 19:28 - And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Zechariah 8:3 - Thus saith the LORD; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the LORD of hosts the holy mountain.
Zechariah 14:16 - And it shall come to pass, [that] every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Revelation 5:10 - And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Daniel 2:44 - And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never b
However, the word 'Church' is from the Greek, 'Ekklesia', & this means 'an assembly or congregation'. So in Acts 7:38, Stephen, when testifying to the Jews, mentioned "the church (which was) in the wilderness", referring to the Israelite congregation that had fled the bondage in Egypt. So the 'Church' that was born from Jesus Christ is only seen in the New Testament, but it can have a broader meaning to any assembling of people or congregation, specifically those meeting as part of a religious group or gathering.
And then one sees a group such as the "Church of Scientology" who regard themselves as a Church (because of the primary meaning of 'Ekklesia'), but has almost no reference in its teaching to anything of God & Christ leaving such belief to the conviction of its adherents.
For those who deem that Heaven & Paradise are the same location, they will cite 2 Corinthians 12:4 & Revelation 2:7, where in each of these references, Paul & John indicated that Heaven, the abode of God, is intended.
For those who believe that Paradise is a separate place, they will appeal to the location of departed souls pre-Cross, as in Luke chapter 16. Here we see the rich man being tormented in hell, & beyond the separating gulf, there was Lazarus, the beggar, who enjoyed relative comfort. And in Luke 23:43, Jesus tells the thief on the Cross that he would also go to Paradise with Him. We assume that this wasn't Heaven, as Jesus said that He had not ascended to the Father ( John 20:17). We understand that while Jesus' Body was in the sepulchre for the three days, Jesus, as also the thief, went down into Paradise. But at Jesus' bodily resurrection, those bodies in the graves also arose ( Matthew 27:53) with Him & we might assume that their souls once held in Paradise were now released to enter Heaven.
Some compartmentalize Hades with a section of suffering & another section of comfort. At Christ's death & resurrection, the souls who were in comfort (being noted for their faith & love for God), were released from there & taken into Heaven, the abode of God. However, the wicked still remain in Hades awaiting their final judgement & casting into the Lake of Fire (in the future).
So in answer to your question, both Heaven & Paradise can now be correctly considered as one & the same. But there was a distinction made pre-Cross, as those held in that Paradise (a place of comfort) awaited the great event of Christ's Sacrifice that provided the payment for their sins based on their faith & removed their condemnation. Romans 8:1.
That was then, today is the now. We have the salvation of Jesus Christ with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to help us avoid pitfalls that lead to sin. We have the Bible to show us how to follow Jesus.
The Book of Romans is a good place to start, but I think John chapter 3 is. When no one wants to be our friend; you will always have a friend in Jesus.
Some people have had real life experiences with the awesome Love of God. I always thought God was way way up in the sky somewhere. I didn't think he could hear me asking for help. But I found out that is not true. He is as close as your next breath. He cares about all of our needs. We just have to begin some conversations with Him...called praying. He talks to people but it's best to be born again ( John 3), so you can get your ears tuned to His Voice.
See if Isaiah 1:18 is desirable to you.
When I first came in here I read a lot of posts on the Testimonies Link. Many have posted how the came to believe in Jesus. Everyone of those is a real person.
I'm more focused on when people try to delete scriptures.
Revelation 22:18-19
Louis "Klopsch published the first modern red letter edition New Testament later in 1899. The first modern, fully rubricated bible was published in 1901."1 According to Wikipedia,2
Because the original texts of the Sacred Scriptures do not have quotation marks, which words exactly are Dominical has been interpreted, as opposed to explanatory text that follows them.
While some red-letter edition bibles have Rev. 21:5-6 rubricated, others do not. In fact, Klopsch's own edition published in 1901 did not have these verses rubricated:
Louis Klopsch Red Letter Bible, Rev. 21:5-6
Book of Revelation
In the Book of Revelation, the author consistently refers to God the Father as "He who sits on the throne."3 The living creatures give thanks to "Him who sits on the throne."4 John sees a book in the right hand of "Him who sits on the throne."5 He then sees the Lord Jesus Christ-"the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David"-come to open the book.6 Then, "he came and took the book out of the right hand of Him who sits upon the throne."7 In Rev. 5:13, "Him who sits upon the throne" is distinguished from "the Lamb."8
13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. KJV, 1769
It is likely that Rev. 21:5-6 is spoken by God the Father since the author mentions "the Lamb" elsewhere in the chapter,9 and the author continues to distinguish between God the Father and the Lamb.10 One verse later in Rev. 21:7, the subject (speaker) states, "He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he shall be my son."
He had been crucified and then resurrected to life again, before the Book of Revelation. That's why the Book of Acts and Revelation have those red letters. Jesus is alive.
Nobody can dispute with the red letters.
All the Apostles (disciples Jesus traveled with) knew they would be killed eventually.
Except Apostle John. They dumped him on a little island to die alone. But first he wrote the Book of Revelation. :D
When I was a new Christian, I would touch the red letters as I read them. Funny huh?
Explore the website. Find the Commentary box by typing in a scripture in the top SEARCH BOX. Tap it to make it turn yellow. Scroll down.
Read some from the Testimonies Link on the red page.
He had been crucified and then resurrected to life again, before the Book of Revelation. That's why the Book of Acts and Revelation have those red letters. Jesus is alive.
Nobody can dispute with the red letters.
All the Apostles (disciples Jesus traveled with) knew they would be killed eventually.
Except Apostle John. They dumped him on a little island to die alone. But first he wrote the Book of Revelation. :D
When I was a new Christian, I would touch the red letters as I read them. Funny huh?
Explore the website. Find the Commentary box by typing in a scripture in the top SEARCH BOX. Tap it to make it turn yellow. Scroll down.
Read some from the Testimonies Link on the red page.
Wesley's Notes for Revelation 2:19
2:19 I know thy love - How different a character is this from that of the angel of the church at Ephesus! The latter could not bear the wicked, and hated the works of the Nicolaitans; but had left his first love and first works. The former retained his first love, and had more and more works, but did bear the wicked, did not withstand them with becoming vehemence. Mixed characters both; yet the latter, not the former, is reproved for his fall, and commanded to repent. And faith, and thy service, and patience - Love is shown, exercised, and improved by serving God and our neighbour; so is faith by patience and good works.
People's Bible Notes for Revelation 2:19
Re 2:19 The last [to be] greater than the first. "That thy last works are more than the first" (Revised Version). Instead of retrograding, their works grew more excellent.
Mishael