Discuss Revelation 14 Page 6

Only the wicked and unrighteous will be in the fire. You are saved if you obey all 10 commandments and believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God. Look in revelation 14: 12. Paul had referred to christions in the churches he wrote to as saints.

Yes if someone was save they can fall if not repent they are not saved. We must repent to the Lord. Only the lord knows what is in people's hearts. Look at 1 samual 16:7.

I hope this helps my friend. God bless.

God is the same today as was in the old testament.

He gave his laws to guide us, teach us and to help us remember Him as our Creator.

Lucifer, the light bearer, decided to take the place of our Creator. He took one third of the angles to believe him. He also wants to claim the earth. His wants to destroy our connection to our Creator by destructing our attention, destroying the Word of God(or changing it) and through persecution of people who follows God's comment.

God says, "Keep my commandments"

Any one who teaches different is the Antichrist. Which means, only you could follow God's Word or by not following, becoming Antichrist.

Anyone who wants to follow Christ, will find opposition and persecution.

The christians were persecuted, they couldn't worship God: so many came to America. Is it possible that the Beast rising up from the Earth is America?

Do Americans have freedom today as was 100-200 years ago?

Maybe things are changing, not for better.

However our faith is in God, who gave proof of His love towards us, humans by sending his Son, Christ to us. Have faith in God and his Son, Jesus Christ.

Tis gets interesting:

( Revelation 5:9-11) alludes to the 144k reigning on the earth.

9 And they sung a NEW SONG, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;

*ten thousand times ten thousand = 100k, and thousands of thousands = 44 = 144k

( Revelation 14:2-4) confirms it's the 144k from Revelation 5.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a NEW SONG before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Now the question becomes, what are the 144k doing at the seal opening when they themselves are sealed much later, before the day of the Lord, ( Revelation 7)? I notice a lot of 'first shall be last and last shall be first' patterns in Revelation. I got a feeling that that's what's happening here, it is esoteric. A grand mystery always unfolding.

Dianne,

Look at this piece of the mystery, then tell me about it.

Revelation 7 begins with the 144K being sealed for 42 months (vs 4), immediately after this (vs 9) 42 months have passed, and the 144k are in heaven (vs 14). These 144k are the only firstfruits ever spoken of. Their purpose is far greater than what they are given credit for simply because they are concealed in allegory.

( Revelation 7:4) And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

vs 9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with WHITE ROBES, and palms in their hands;

vs 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Two witnesses are the 144k in heaven ( Revelation 11:12) ( 1 Thessalonians 4:17) ( Revelation 14:1-4)

There's more to reveal between the 144K and the fifth seal saints:

( Revelation 6:9-11) And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And WHITE ROBES were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

A little season = fifth seal-seventh trumpet

( Revelation 7:13) And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in WHITE ROBES? and whence came they? (fellowservants)

144k = ( Revelation 7:15)

Brother Jesse, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are ASLEEP, that you sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

Romans 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of SLEEP: for now is our salvation nearer than when we first believed.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For we believe that Jesus died and arose again, even so them also which SLEEP in Jesus will God bring with him.

1 Thessalonians 5:6 Therefore let us NOT SLEEP, as do others; but us watch an be sober.

1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are ASLEEP.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the DEAD IN CHRIST shall RISE FIRST (first resurrection)( Revelation 20:5):

Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead that DIE IN THE LORD from henceforth .....

I BELIEVE this is the FIRST DEATH and the first resurrection also describe in 1 Thessalonians 4:16.

I BELIEVE the ONLY one that hears this shout and trumpet is the one being CALLED to take part in the first resurrection. I come as a thief in the night. If everyone heard, it would no be as a thief.

Hebrews 9:27 It is appointed unto men to die..I BELIEVE this is the same death in 1 Thessalonians 4:16 and Revelation 14:13...but after this the judgement.

I BELIEVE this judgement is by God's WORD; both written and living, on those that have their part in the first resurrection. 1 Peter 4:17

I BELIEVE 1 Thessalonians 4 is about those that take part in the first resurrection and are present with Christ upon his return at the second resurrection.

What difference is there in the snatching up, whether it be one at a time or collectively.

1 Thessalonian 4 purports a seventh trumpet resurrection of both dead and surviving sealed saints, coming out of the great tribulation. Since this occurs 42 months AFTER the abomination of desolation, it nullifies such beliefs; it proves the notion and timing of a "rapture" is unsound. The saints were not taken up BEFORE the abomination of desolation, but only at the seventh trumpet, 42 months later. You would want to be "taken" before the great tribulation, not after.

Since 1 Thessalonian 4:17 occurs at the last trumpet, equivalent to Revelation 11:15, it is the first resurrection of the sealed saints only. The dead rise first before the living, therefore this is a small, treasured group of people, and not the whole group. Revelation 14 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Zion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand...These sealed saints overcame the beast and his mark, they are virgins who will rule with Christ for 1K years. Who among us can be described like that, and who will make it to the end alive?

IT IS NOT Ezekiel 37:1-14 either (2nd resurrection), because here BOTH houses of Israel (Israel & Judah) are being resurrected and stand up as the WHOLE HOUSE of Israel. AND THEY'RE ALL DEAD!!!

This "lifting up" event is misinterpreted so badly, seeing that billions and billions of Christian sinners will require a new earth and new heaven to accommodate them all. Everyone involved should humble their place in line. Counting yourselves among the Revelation 14:4 saints is rather precarious, indeed. Does man immediately deserve to stand alongside the elect saints, and Jesus Christ?

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. The second resurrection is for the rest, other than the elect, of which the majority are not. When the fast bullets fly, we will get a new perspective on Hebrews 9:27.

Sister Kimberly, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

Romans 14:8 For whether we LIVE, we LIVE unto the Lord; and whether we DIE, we DIE unto the Lord: whether we LIVE therefore, or DIE, we are the Lord's.

John 6:20 This is the bread that cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and NOT DIE.

John 11:26 And whosoever LIVETH and BELIEVETH in me shall never die. BELIEVEST THOU THIS?

Luke 20:36 Neither can they DIE any more (because they DIED with Christ on the cross): for they are EQUAL to the angels; and are the children of God, being the CHILDREN OF THE RESURRECTION.

Revelation 14:13 ....Blessed are the dead which DIE IN THE LORD from henceforth....

1 Corinthians 15:26 The last enemy to be destroyed is DEATH.

Christ resurrection DESTROYED DEATH. (For those that BELIEVE)

John 8:51 Verily, Verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my sayings, he shall NEVER SEE DEATH.

Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto to you, There be some STANDING HERE (this was 2000 years age), which SHALL NOT TASTE OF DEATH, till they see the Son of man coming into his kingdom.

Colossians 1:27 ...THIS MYSTERY....CHRIST IN YOU....(The First SON OF GOD)

1 John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath LIFE; and he that hath not the Son HATH NOT LIFE.

Do these scriptures imply that we sleep and await and appointed time; or has our APPOINTED time ARRIVED upon the death of this earthly body.

You don't go to heaven; you BECOME a SON OF GOD. OMNIPRESENT not confined to one location or place.

Listen to those saints belt out a new song:

Revelation 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

Revelation 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundredandfortyandfour thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

Revelation 15:3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellousarethy works, Lord God Almighty; just and truearethy ways, thou King of saints.

OSEAS,

You didn't answer my questions. You said I was "wrong" about the 2 witnesses, but not why. You had to Google it, I recognized the script you copied. Therefore, I will answer the questions for you:

The 144K are the church, they are Christ's bride. The 2 witnesses, the two candlesticks & two olive trees, the woman from Revelation 12, are all symbolism, metaphors, and allegory describing the 144K. The 2 witnesses and the 144K have the same mission, within the same time frame. You still can't make the connection?

( Psalms 52:8) But I am like a green olive tree in the house of God: I trust in the mercy of God for ever and ever.

A single nation was an olive tree. A nation divided became two olive trees, two houses, two witnesses.

Below are 5 scripture depictions of the 144K on route to or in heaven. After being called up to heaven, the firstfruits are gathered for their judgment. The 144K "witnesses" are judged and resurrected in the twinkling of an eye. Look how the Rev 7 & Rev 11 stories parallel each other.

( Revelation 11:12) And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

( Revelation 7:9) After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;



( Revelation 7:14)...These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Revelation 14:1-4

Revelation 20:4

Can it get any clearer? The 2 witnesses die, and no sooner do they appear in heaven as the coveted 144K. I have no idea where you stand, but, If you're going to dismiss my interpretation, the burden is on you to back it up with facts. Can you post your own ideas about the 2 witnesses for me to review?

OSEAS,

Please explain why the two witnesses are not sealed, neither in Revelation 7 What will they do for 42 months?

Please explain why the 144K are sealed? What will they do for 42 months?

You said only the two witnesses die in the street, and not the 144K?

Then why are the 144K standing in front of the throne, resurrected?

( Revelation 14:1-4)

1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Zion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

AND AGAIN IN REVELATION 7 we see the 144K getting sealed, and immediately afterwards the same 144K are seen in WHITE ROBES in heaven, after being redeemed from the great tribulation in vs 13-14.

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

The two witness and 144K are one in the same. The two witnesses are SYMBOLIC of themselves.

God's book fooled you. Allow the Bible to define itself, not some copy n' paste internet article. I strongly believe that you owe me an apology for explaining away this issue as if my assertion was ill-conceived.

Mishael,

"When Jesus returns, all believers in caskets will come open, meet Jesus in the clouds and receive their glorified bodies."

That is literally 25 billion Christians resurrected to everlasting life, which is impossible. The number is a much smaller remnant. The elect.

How do you know the scriptures aren't holding back information, conflating the resurrections? God is not going to give us the keys without effort, you have to prove what you believe. People are dead set on Moses and Elijah being the two witnesses, but try and talk them out of it. Revelation is a esoterical book where you'll find the first verse is the last verse and the last verse is the first verse. I have yet to hear a sound explanation for the mass exodus you describe, as that's not the order. I used to think the same way until I applied reasoned distinctions.

This first "rising", at the last trumpet, is designated for the sealed saints, after the great tribulation. I don't trust that all 144K die in the street; those of them found alive will be taken up (1 Thessalonian 4:17). The firstfruits are the resurrected saints of Revelation 14:4, in heaven. They are the same as those sealed in Revelation 7, and protected in 12. The rest of the dead slept for the thousand years. A day is a thousand years to God.

The rest of the dead at the second resurrection will awake as usual, not knowing 1,000 years have passed.

Sissy, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

This body (soul) of flesh we now live in can never inherit the next life.

Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine...... the soul that sinneth it shall die.

ALL MANKIND IS CHRISTS; we are his creation, it is his good pleasure to do with us as he DESIRES.

WE REBEL (that we are his possession) through UNBELIEF; he brings judgement upon us to CAUSE us to AGREE with him.

All this is a process to RECREATE us into a NEW creature that can inherit the NEXT LIFE.

No greater love has a man than to die for his brother.

Christ DIED for us, his brothers and sisters.

NOW do we AGREE to DIE for CHRIST, our brother, so he can CREATE in us a NEW LIFE that can live in the next world or will it take MORE JUDGEMENT for us to AGREE.

If we AGREE now (first resurrection) to DIE IN THE LORD; then, we never die and don't go through the next judgement (second resurrection).

Revelation 14:13 ....Blessed are the dead (in trespasses) which die IN THE LORD from henceforth.....

John 6:50 This is the (living) bread that came down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and NEVER DIE.

Brother Richard, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

I BELIEVE; also, in Christ is THE LIFE, you never die. Contrary to this you die. The wages of sin (UNBELIEF) is death.

John 18:24 I say therefore unto you, you shall die in your sins: for if you BELIEVE NOT that I am HE (LIFE, WAY, TRUTH) you shall die in your sins.

John 6:50 This is the bread that cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof and NEVER DIE.

John 11:26 And whoever liveth and believeth IN ME shall never die.

Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Blessed are the dead (we are dead in our trespasses) which die IN THE LORD from henceforth; Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may REST (in Christ) from their labours; and their works (of Christ in you, LIFE) may follow them.

I BELIEVE there are two deaths: now in Christ or later in Christ (second death)

I BELIEVE there are two resurrection: now in Christ or later in Christ at the second resurrection.

I BELIEVE there are two judgements: now in Christ (spiritual FIRE) or later in Christ (spiritual FIRE) at the second resurrection and second death.

The word says the wicked want live out half their life (the ONLY life is CHRIST); we don't see this now so possibly it means they will lay in the grave for a long time, or judgement in Christ will be much longer than we go thru in our short lifetime or both.

God bless the WORKS OF CHRIST.

while believe that Jesus is coming back., i have been a Christian for some time and when it comes to the book of revelation we must try to read and study it in its proper context, because a whole lot of crazy ideas have come out i have heard that Russia was the beast, that America was the beast and so on what that old prophecy way back about Jesus coming back in 1988 and so on.....you have pretrib, midtrib, post trib beliefs....now you folks coming out saying the vaccine is the mark....we need to stay away from conspiracy's as much as possible because it breeds fear and confusion......and God is not the author of confusion but love and a sound mind.

Joe Pickett,

Peter wrote in 1 Peter 5:13, "The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.

He says the church that is in Babylon, and that's a cryptic word for the church in Rome where he wrote the letter from, so if the letter got intercepted, the believers in Rome would not be punished.

The United States is never referred to as Babylon.

Jesse,

I have a few things for you:

1) The "last week" prophesy is split between a span of 2,000 years.

It's not 7 consecutive years, but 2 prophetic, 3.5 year segments, drawing on each other.

This is the Order:

-Jesus Christ received the first half of the week during his ministry (3.5 years), THEN,

-At the sixth trumpet antichrist receives the second half of the week (3.5 years) = 7 years total.

-At the seventh trumpet Jesus returns to rule the earth for 1,000 years.

2) ( 1 Thessalonians 17) "Being snatched away" and other like scriptures is only about the 144K, they are the only ones standing with Christ on Mount Olives ( Revelation 14:4), they are the only ones standing in front of the throne after being resurrected ( Revelation 11:11). The 144K are practically treated like Christ, because they are the bride.

( Revelation 20:4-5)

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Do you see how the 144K came out of the great tribulation (saints), and the rest of the dead slept (us)? The first resurrection is solely for the first fruits, who are with Christ for 1,000 years.

3) The 144K are not Jews, they are Christians of 12 tribes; even the 3 tribes of Judah are Christians worshiping Christ. The 144K are referred to as The house of Israel (Christians), not house of Judah.

The end-time scriptures uncover the mystery of the end, tied in to the OT prophets. The Bible reveals hidden secrets, they're there for the taking. Let me know of any end-time event questions you have, I will be here to help.

Hi Joe Picket ,people have different ideas about Babylon in Revelation ,a lot of people ,including me ,believe its Rome ,the empire and catholicism ,from memory it sits on 7 hills ,which the city of Rome does ,im sure some one some where will have a different idea and hopefully they will share it with us all .

The Babylon in revelations seems to be another location beside the middle east.

This partial verse requirement has devastated the Catholic church:

Revelation 14:4 "These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth...."

Priests do not have the carnal tools to be saints. Barring priest from marriage creates bondage of urges. Marriage is healthy therapy for life, and not to be forbidden.

Beautifully put Richard in Christ

There are many deceptions in the world. Like you said regardless of what we will face we must be ready and hold to our faith with all our might and prayer and be led by the Holy Spirit and trust what Jesus said. The first thing Jesus said to the four disciples when they asked Him about the end of the age was "take heed that no man deceive you".

There is an hour coming and we that are still here will be tempted with death or the mark, and if we hold fast by faith, to the promise we who are His, have been given in Jesus, eternal life with Him, He will give us the strength to face it. But I fear if the faith is the hope of being spared tribulation, many will be overtaken by the temptation, may God forbid.

Revelation 3:10-11 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

Revelation 14:12-13 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Thank you Richard.

Revelation 7 Explained:

Even if you have read Revelation 7 hundreds of times, you may not have noticed something peculiar. After the tribes are sealed, vs 1-8, time skips forward 3.5 years, showing the same 144K resurrected and standing about the throne.

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Revelation 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. These are the firstfruits who will serve a thousand years with Jesus Christ.

Laurel,

This scripture is referring to the peoples and specifically the leadership of Mystery Babylon before the're mortally attacked. So, before the day of the Lord, when God allows the attack, the elect 144K church are sealed from death for 42 months, then, at the end of their testimony the same elect are resurrected up, Revelation 11:7-11. That's the totality of the firstfruit resurrection ( Revelation 14:4) hand picked by God himself. All the elect don't die with so many spread out. No one is raptured (not Bible doctrine) or resurrected, or given divine treatment until the last trumpet.

What is so bad about being part of the 2nd resurrection?

Bro Barney,

Yes, knowing the time stamps are crucial because the text skips back and forth. You said "There are many more passages that point to the church being raptured up before the tribulation period."

Can you show me in scripture where rapture happens before tribulation? Don't you mean before the great tribulation, before Jesus comes like a thief?

The 144K sealed are the church that is resurrected, depicted standing before the alter as redeemed from the earth. Show me where anyone else besides the 144K are resurrected. Who are like these? Revelation 14:1-5

Revelation 7:13-14

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

God bless you Barney

Earl,

John has no need to prophesy after leaving his body of flesh, which occurs at the seventh trumpet for the elect, when God's mystery is over. It is the resurrected one hundred forty thousand standing on Mount Zion with Jesus Messiah ( Revelation 14:1).

It is the one hundred forty four thousand who are tasked in prophesying between the sixth and seventh trumpets. Jesus Christ received a 42 month ministry, and so do the elect ( Revelation 7).

I'm talking about the physically manifested, end-time firsfruits of Jesus Christ. The Church. The Bride. The two witnesses are much more special than meets the eye. In fact you could devote a lifetime to Sunday school, and never uncover the clews of who they are. They are the elite set, one hundred forty four thousand gleaned from Israel, the remnant who after battling satan, are resurrected into Christ's army. Only these elect qualify ( Revelation 14:4) to be firstfruits for the thousand years.

However, due to above corresponding, and conflicting scriptures, any opinion falls inconclusive. The gut feeling says everyone else awaits second entry; all 108 billion souls that ever lived. What do we care, we'll be sleeping.

What makes you think that anyone other than the first fruits are first fruits?

( Revelation 14:3-5)

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the first fruits unto God and to the Lamb.

5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

It is only the one hundred forty four thousand, resurrected and standing at the throne of God.

The rest of the dead slept till the second resurrection.

BUT WAIT, were not finished, or without contradiction:

( 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17)

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Did all of the one hundred forty four thousand die, or did some take cover? vs 17 says those alive will be caught up with the dead to meet the Lord in the air. I tend to believe from the great number of sealed Israelites that some must remain alive. After all, they are witnesses to anti-christ's exploits, and need to see it to the end. Per usual, looking into the translation, etymology would iron matters out.

I will always pray to you God for the sake of the human race in these perilous times, signs in the Heavens have shown me that powerful angels are very angry with the sinful ways so many have forgotten Lord God almighty and his son Jesus Christ. We must all seek the light of Gods love before darkness consumes the earth! Babylon the great shall soon fall (America) and all those who continue to laugh and ridicule Gods chosen acolytes who shall be lifted into Heaven shall say in horror Dear God What Have We Done? I forgive my enemies praying that God can forgive them too.

Thank you again Glenn. I understand that you dislike pursuing this 'debate', so you can end it whenever you wish. On the contrary, I love such 'debates': I believe this type of exchange helps us to study the Scriptures more closely, to understand the others' points of view, & to re-check or revise one's own understanding, if required. And this Christian Site, amongst very few out there, gives us this opportunity to have such exchanges, if not only for our benefit, but for others wanting further light on the matter.

Briefly, to answer your last comment: the way the Bible speaks about creation & that God rested after He completed His Works, is simply just that: a special day different from His other six days of creating & so it was set apart (sanctified) as that special day. To this special day, God had, with His other commandments, prescribed to His special chosen people, Israel. Was it given to anyone else? No. And not only did the Gentiles not receive any commandment from God, neither was the Church under any compulsion to be brought under them (i.e. the Gentiles didn't have to become Jews first before receiving Christ's salvation).

As well, to note, I've never claimed Sunday to be the new Sabbath. Sunday was simply a day chosen by the NT Church to worship God through His Son & not connected to the Sabbath (rest day). If they chose any other day, I would easily comply, even if it was a Saturday. Or even if my Fellowship changed it to a Wednesday, that too would be fine. To me, Sunday is not Sabbath - just an ordinary day set aside to worship the Lord in fellowship with His children. And the coming Antichrist will demand worship of him, not necessarily on a Sunday as no Scripture indicates or supports that theory. Thank you for your time. God bless.

Talk about the OT prophets to see where we stand. The prophets spent much time describing the sixth trumpet, "day of the Lord", one hour battle, than any other trumpet. Our future is of catastrophic destruction. Our leaders have aligned their working with scripture to bring about our demise. How is it no one recognizes America for who she is, from what she's done, or its judgment?

( Ezekiel 33:6)

Thank you brother Dan for providing the Scripture: Romans 11:13-16. I understand that you see from these verses that both the "Israelites & Gentiles are subject to the same 10 commandments".

If we read the whole passage, we see Paul referring to the "election of grace" (v 5), whereby those Jews, with blinded eyes, deaf ears, & a spirit of slumber, failed to take hold of God's Grace & rested on their works (which by inference is to the Law of Works) to obtain salvation. And through their fall & removal from the olive tree, those of believing Israel, including believing Gentiles were grafted into that natural tree, which represents those whom the Lord regards as His Own (by election), those who have taken hold of God's Grace in salvation.

You're seeing this grafting in of the Gentiles with the believing Jews as a sanction from God that all be brought under the Law or to obey it. I see the opposite: I see the election of Grace at work, whereby those who were cut out from the tree because of their reliance on the Law to save them, have given up their privileged position to those who have not relied upon the Law to save them, but have submitted themselves to the Grace of God for His salvation.

And if our salvation (for both Jew & Gentile) is dependent on God's Grace, then it is no more of works. As Paul said in the same chapter, verse 6: "And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work." And this work that he was referring to was Israel's dependence of the working (fulfilling) of the Law towards their salvation. And to this, God's Grace was in opposition, for salvation cannot come by appealing to & relying upon the Law of Works. If salvation then is by Grace alone (which I know you believe), why refer to a Law that only leads to death when the new Law of the life-giving Spirit in us sets us free from the Law of sin & death? And Galatians 3:21.