"Why do we say that sanctification makes us blameless, not faultless? Because the Grace of God working in us does not make us infallible. Sin has so perverted our moral and spiritual powers that we shall never in this present life be free from the infirmities of human nature."
This is a subtle lie, cleverly disguise within a lot of truth, whether intentional or not, I hope it was the later.
blameless def; is an adjective that means "innocent of wrongdoing" or "free from blame or fault"
faultless def; is an adjective that means having no fault, mistake, defect, imperfection, blemish, flaw, error, vice, or offense. It describes something that is perfect in all respect
Titus 2:11-14 all iniquity
Jude 1:24 faultless without blame, without blemish, faultless.
From a (as a negative particle) and momos; unblemished (literally or figuratively) -- without blame (blemish, fault, spot), faultless, unblamable.
Ephesians 5:27
The Grace of God is the Almighty, who we have in these earthen vessels; Isa 14:27 only to the unbelievers are these things impossible Matt 13:58Hebrews 3:19
Hello One eighty - thanks for your response as it helps me understand more about you and where you are spiritually.
I'll share some "meat" with you that you can respond by telling me whether you agree or not with what I am sharing with you below.
In the following three verses, Jesus uses the term "...cannot be my disciple" implying that Discipleship is a mandatory requirement to becoming "saved':
"If any man come to me, and hate not [meaning love less than Christ] his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, HE CANNOT BE MY DISCIPLE." ( Luke 14:26)
"And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, CANNOT BE MY DISCIPLE." ( Luke 14:27)
"So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all [of his worldly possessions] that he hath, HE CANNOT BE MY DISCIPLE." ( Luke 14:33)
In this last verse, Jesus is again saying to every Christian - in much the same way as he said to the rich young ruler - "...sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me." ( Luke 18:22-23)
When I came to Jesus some 30+ years ago, I had the choice to abandon ALL that I had and take up my cross and follow Jesus or chase family members who had rejected me for no reason at all. I willingly chose to make that choice to follow Jesus, and have never regretted doing so.
However, such choices also require God's people to bring forth "...PATIENCE and FAITH in all your PERSECUTIONS and TRIBULATIONS that ye endure" (2 Thes 1:4) together with "... INFIRMITIES, in REPROACHES, in NECESSITIES, in PERSECUTIONS, in DISTRESSES for Christ's sake" ( 2 Cor 12:10) while "...earnestly CONTENDING FOR THE FAITH" ( Jude 1:3) among those who "...corrupt the word of God ( 2 Cor. 2:17).
Given that most Christians profess that they have ETERNAL SECURITY (which contradicts Phil 2:12 and 1 Peter 5:8-9), how do you relate to the scripture verses in Luke 14 above?
4. 1 John 1:7-10; We all come into the world as miserable sinners Rom 3:23; but with the coming of Christ/Grace we don't have to stay that way, Rom 3:24; through the obedience of faith in the Light of His Countenance that shine in our heart, 7-10 explains the operations of Grace appearance, John 16:8 bringing these to seeds into judgment within conscience, if we then say we have not sin, we deceive ourselves ,make Him a liar & the Truth/Word is not engraft within us. But if received, He cleanses us from all unrighteousness, iniquity, transgression & sin, Titus 2:14; By receiving His convictions, is the Power received, & everyone that 1John 3:3; is experience. So there a time when He finds us in sin, & a time that He cleanse from all sin.
5. Jude 1:21-24; ; Keeping yourselves in the love of God/ is by keeping His commandments, 1John 2:3-6; John 14:24; the Light of His Countenance that shine in our hearts
& in doing so He will keep you from falling, present you faultless! This is obviously from sinning against Him.
The "some" in Jude 1:22 could be referring to two different groups of people.
1. It could have been in reference to "some" believers who were being influenced by the false teachers in Jude 1:4 who "...crept in unawares...", and compassion was needed to ground them in the faith so they would not depart from the faith.
2. The "Some" could also have been those who were close to being saved, and great compassion was needed to bring them to a place of receiving Christ as Saviour.
This is for those who were wondering what it meant.
John 5:24. actually says exactly that along with a accumulation of scripture when discerning them properly.
Here's John 5:24. "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; BUT IS PASSED FROM DEATH UNTO LIFE".
Also see John 11:25-26.
There's physical death and there is spiritual death.
Everyone will die the physical death, ( Once.) Hebrews 9:27. Jesus took care of the Spitual death on the cross.
Those who haven't trusted Christ is ALREADY SPIRITUALLY DEAD! There is no sequence to this. You see it in Jude 1:12 "These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, TWICE DEAD, plucked up by the roots;
Revelation 20:13-14. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. THIS IS THE SECOND DEATH.
This concept is spreaded broadly throughout scripture when interpreted right.
Romans 6:3-11.
Ephesians 2:1-9. And you HATH HE QUICKENED, who were dead in trespasses and sins: He gave life!
This is there present condition.
He didn't say "You whom he WILL quicken!"
If we don't have eternal life now, we don't have nothing to apply our faith to.
3. The word of God the Bible is either it has happened, or it is happening, and it is for us set as an example for how we should live before the Lord our God. it is also very current and accurate. See Malach 3:16 and Jude 1:7. thus
it is written in Hebrews 4:12
12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
and in 2 timothy 3:16
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work
-And There are prophecy which will come to be fulfilled like the coming of the ant-Christ but remember there are many anti-Christ today.
as it is written in 1 John 2:18
Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour
4. anyone who turns away from sins makes himself a prey it is written in.
Isaiah 59:15
Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the Lord saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment.
-So the devil does not care for anyone who calls himself Christian but is not committed. But if anyone is committed and obeys Gods word and does all is written in the bible then Satan shifts all his attentions to them and hence the wiles of the devil. Therefore, put all the Armour of God not one but all. as it is written in Ephesians 6:11
11Put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
I know we have different understandings of this and I am probably in the minority but that is ok. To me, it hinges on whether the soul is mortal or immortal and I have not found any scripture that supports the soul is immortal when comparing all scriptures about the soul, (I hope that makes sense).
Like 1 Thess. 4:13-17 My understanding is Paul is trying to ensure the people their loved ones who believed in Jesus who had died (asleep) would not be left out of the resurrection when Jesus returns. "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him." If we believe Jesus died and rose we who die before He returns will also rise (resurrect, awake) from our sleep (death).
"God will bring with him" seems to fit the picture in Jude 1:14-15, but does it agree with being resurrected? My understanding is 1 Thess. 4:17 The earth is round and those resurrected when Jesus returns will meet Him in the air and He brings those with Him down with Him, not going back up.
2 Cor. 5:6-8 We all look forward to being with Jesus but when will we be absent from this body? What is the resurrection of the dead? Resurrection is an awakening, our soul is who we are the essence of our being that is what God resurrects to either eternal life or death, 1 Cor. 15:35-55.
My understanding is our soul is not immortal our soul, that is who we are, and as our body, it is mortal. We will die/sleep until we are resurrected into our immortal body and that is when we will be free and absent from this fleshly body we have now and will be with the Lord.
My understanding is all who have lived will be resurrected John 5:28-29. We will be on the earth when it is made new not in heaven.
If we do not agree on this subject it is ok as long as we treat each other with love and inspire each other to study.
Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-17
But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Jude 1:14,15
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
True, David0921, 'stagnation' would be too subtle a word to more fully describe how the Church at large treats God's Word & deals with sin & rebuke of erring ones. Unfortunately, from my limited experience, it seems that the larger the Church (congregation), the weaker they are in some of these areas we've referred to. The smaller, & probably the more exclusive (sectarian) of them, keep a much more rigid control on behavior & adherence to the Word. Yet, saying that, often their teachings also tend to be a little off-track. A few however, I believe, have found the right balance.
Now, I have a query on what you had earlier written (& now), in discussion with Jema a few days ago: "So when we look at the nature of God's Judgment program very carefully, we find that the Final Punishment is annihilation, that is destruction". And I quote this as you also shared here, "When was the last time you heard a sermon that focused on the Judgment and Wrath of God for sin?" Obviously, I think I have misunderstood you, where it appears that you believe that the final state of man is, either he's enjoying eternal life with the Lord, or a cessation of all existence (annihilation, as you put it). And then the "Wrath of God for sin" as you now stated. Without making any further assumptions, maybe you could clarify your belief, as in my mind I'm unable to reconcile the two statements.
I believe that Matthew 10:28 was quoted as a reference to the complete destruction of soul & body, to which the Greek word does support; as it does to John 3:16 ("perish"), Romans 2:12, 1 Corinthians 8:11, 2 Peter 3:9, and many others. But reference wasn't made to Daniel 12:1,2; Matthew 18:8,9; Matthew 25:46; Jude 1:7; Revelation 20:10,14,15; & others. In the light of these other Scriptures as well as the essence of the Gospel message which requires an eternal suffering, or else we don't have any Good News of salvation to give, how should we understand your statements? Blessings.
Hi Jimbob. You wrote well though if I could just highlight the 'apostasy' (apostasia), as seen in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, & consider what the Apostle Paul was speaking of here. I realize that it would be simple to understand his statement as applying to believers, before that day of Christ's coming, that some would apostatize by rejecting Christ going back into the world or to embrace another religion. But are we correct to believe that this was what Paul was speaking of in light of his other writings & that of our Lord? (refs. John 10:27-29; John 6:37; 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:13,14; Ephesians 4:30; Romans 8:28-30; Jude 1:24,25; 2 Corinthians 5:17; 2 Timothy 2:19).
When we look at the definition of 'apostasy', it is as you have given ("An abandonment of what one has professed, a total desertion, or departure from one's faith, a total abandonment of the Christian faith"). But 'apostasy' is not simply restricted to a 'total departure from one's faith' but also 'a total departure or abandonment of one's principles, party, cause' (and one could even add 'departure from the Word of God which lays out the principles and Truths of doctrine & righteous living').
Unfortunately, the 2 Thessalonians 2:2-5 passage is not explicit to show us how Paul was applying this 'apostasy'. Obviously, the Thessalonian believers probably knew much more than we have been given (v5 'remember...I told you these things?'). Clearly, this apostasy doesn't relate to principles or causes of the world, because its context shows that Paul is speaking of an apostasy that will affect believers in some way. The question then is: is it the rejection of Christ altogether, or a departure/rejection of the Truth of God's Word? But isn't that the same thing, one could ask? I think you will agree Jimbob, that this rejection of Truth & promotion of unbiblical interpretations & lifestyle, has been going on for a long time - from within the Church itself.
Here's some scripture- this is what really matters:
Rev 14:11-12 - this draws a distinction between people burning in hell and people of God (Christians) who "keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus" Those who are inbetween or lukewarm are rejected and won't be saved: Rev 3:16.
Why would the verse say "remain faithful to Jesus" if they are already "saved" people of God? That is conditional. If people chose to not be faithful to Jesus overall they probably aren't people of God.
Rev 13:8 everyone on earth will worship the beast and will burn in hell for eternity according to Rev 14:11.
Rev 2:23. Jesus will repay each according to your deeds.
Rev 2:25. Hold on to the teachings you have until Jesus comes.
Rev 2:5 talks about falling away from the faith- they need to repent.
Rev 1:8 Jesus is the Lord God.
Jude 1:20 Building yourself up in faith. Suggests that building up and keeping the faith takes effort and practice like a muscle.
The scripture is clear what it means. It is the truth. What some people are saying is not the truth and not based on scripture. Beware of that.
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Ezekiel 36:24-29
For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.
2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Jude 1:24, 25
Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
The true gospel of the Bible is a gospel where God does 100% of the work in saving us and our works cannot and do not contribute to our salvation in any way whatsoever.
If we have become saved it is because God has chosen us, paid for our sins, drawn us, and saved us. And He will therefore KEEP us.
If we are following a gospel where we can lose our salvation, we are not following the gospel of the Bible.
Hello Charlie. I don't believe that the Old Testament Apocryphal Books were largely accepted by the Church. Many had accepted them as authoritative & scriptural & even included them in the Canon of Scripture (whether within the OT framework or as additions to it), but many didn't accept them for various reasons.
If you're enquiring as to why these books were not included or even removed from the Canon, then the reasons are many. Some of them are: they were never cited as books of reference in the NT (even though we have Jude 1:14,15 & 2 Timothy 3:8 as possible examples). These quotations by Jude & Paul do give some authoritative weight to those books, though they are only mentioned to strengthen the text, just as Paul referred to the Cretians ( Titus 1:12) & in Acts 17:28 (to the Athenian poets).
The Apocrypha books were never accepted by the Jews as divinely inspired writings & were never a part of the Hebrew canon. Those books were written during those 400 'silent years' between the Testaments. Both Jewish & NT sources agree that no divinely inspired prophetic utterance occurred at that time. Jesus never referred to them as He often did to the accepted OT Scriptures. As well, even though some Truth can be gleaned from those books, they do also contain errors, both in historical matters & doctrine. When any writing, then or now, gives details that are contrary to what has been given to us (even that of the NT Apocrypha), then they must be held in suspicion. Many do read from those apocryphal books & have even asked on this Site about their authenticity & authority, but I've always shared that if one is inclined to read or study from them, that they do so guardedly & with utmost care (watching for historical & doctrinal inaccuracies), always resorting to the accepted Canon of Scripture as their final authority.
Hi Kay. If I may just share my thoughts on what you've written, pre-empting Richard's comment: you've quoted Revelation 3:15,16, "I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth." I understand Jesus' Words to the Laodicean Church that the works (or, fruit) they bore from their 'Christian experience' was "neither cold nor hot", or, 'their works & life lived did not resemble the cold (the unbeliever) or the hot (the one in Christ & Christ in them). Rather, Jesus saw them as lukewarm (fence-sitters, middle-of-the-road, nominal practising Christians). Jesus would rather see them for who they are: be it cold (unbelievers) or hot (believers), as there was no place in His Kingdom for the lukewarm (considered to be non-Christians, imposters in the Church). Not only in Laodicea, but greatly in Christendom today, lukewarmness is the order of the day - and Jesus would have none of it.
And Matthew 24:13, "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." Our brother Jesse who is regularly seen on these pages, has shown us from the original Greek language, that our reading of this verse should be: "The one, however, having endured to the end, he will be saved" (direct rendering from the Greek). So, this verse doesn't speak of a Christian enduring to the end & then gaining salvation - there are many other verses that suggest otherwise speaking of the believer's security in Christ now; but that if we truly believe & have God's Holy Spirit in us, we WILL endure to the end - no exceptions, because that is the very Nature & Purpose of the Holy Spirit in us "to keep us from falling (away) & to present us faultless before the presence of His Glory..." ( Jude 1:24).
Lukewarm 'Christians' & those who easily & regularly do despite to the Spirit of Grace in their manner of living, desperately need to be saved & secured in the Love of Christ.
Thoughts on the Rapture and timing as well as reasoning/
Note: I can't find the prequel as it were to this thread; so the audience may be limited. I may get into further discussion on the main discussion area but will try to sum things up here.
A major issue here that I have opened the "can of worms" on is; in regard to just who is identified as those dressed in white garments which were made that way through blood ( Rev. 7:14 referring to robes). It certainly can be expected that the witness of the 144,000 will bring many to faith and willing martyrdom. Other verses referring those whose garments were made white make verses such as Revelation 3:4; and Zechariah 3:3 be contrasted with Ephesians 5:27. For if some in Laodicea are naked among other things; surely anyone with a garment in God's presence is saved; although it is much like Jude 1:23 being saved as though through the fire; or 1 Corinthians 3:15 where one suffers loss and not much remains after their works are burned up by and large. In other words I would argue that to have a garment in the first place we are saved; if we allow sin to spot it then there are certain ramifications; including what I propose as missing the reward of a rapture if indeed it is more than just a salvation prerequisite. I would strongly suggest in these last days; there is little fruit being produced; and the Lord of the harvest is looking for it. He will either purge us to produce more fruit ( John 15:2) or as the same verse indicates we are not His child (producing no fruit) and are eventually cut off. Again; we need to broaden our scope and see those who are unbelievers; those judged more harshly for hearing and rejecting the truth; lukewarm believers and those who are producing much fruit. We must as Hebrews suggest; believe God is a rewarder of those things done for Him ( Heb. 11:6). We also should pay attention to those seeking a better country ( Heb. 11:16) of those who willingly gave up their lives for this.
"Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."
Genesis 19
4But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:
5And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
I think they were known to be completely wicked in all manner
I will give you my view and I will extend to vs 37.
vs 36-37 is where the answer is.
"Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, THITHER WILL THE EAGLES BE GATHERED TOGETHER.
Now parallel it with.
Revelation 19:11-18. "focusing on vs 17."
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
( vs14) And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, CLOTHED IN FINE LINEN, WHITE AND CLEAN.
(Parallels with; Jude 1:14.)
Those clothed in fine linen is the same group in Revelation 19:7.
THIS GROUP IS THE BRIDE OF CHRIST. THE CHURCH!!
15) And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16) And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
17) And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the FOWLS THAT FLY IN THE MIDST OF HEAVEN, COME AND GATHER YOURSELVES TOGETHER unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
THIS GROUP IS TAKEN FOR JUDGMENT.
This is after the tribulation and the Church comes with him, They were raptured atleast 7 years prior.
Those left goes on into the Millennium. Those taken, Judgment as well in Matthew 24.
Jude 1:20 But ye (you are the body of Christ), BELOVED, building up yourselves (in the truth of God's words) on your most HOLY FAITH (you were resurrected with CHRIST, your the body of Christ, it's HIS HOLY FAITH IN YOU, his body, praying in the HOLY GHOST (your mouth is the mouth of GOD, it's his words that come out of your mouth.
Christ said OF MYSELF, I can do nothing, the words you hear are my Father's words, the works you see are my Father's works, Christ is the body of his Father, we are the body of Christ, the words that come out of our mouth are the words of Christ, the works we do are not our works, but the works of Christ.
Man's teaching have destroyed the truth of the gospel.
That they may be ONE as we are ONE
Ephesians 4:4 ..... ONE BODY (that contains the LIFE of God) ......ONE SPIRIT (the LIFE of the body) ...
Ephesians 4:6 .....ONE GOD .....Father of ALL ......
You have to have your carnal mind destroyed by God's words and have the mind of Christ replace your carnal mind.
When you pray in the HOLY GHOST, you pray in the NAME OF JESUS (your his wife, you were MADE ONE by his resurrection, he has given you HIS NAME, he is the LIFE IN YOU, it's his word, nis prrayer
Psalms 12:4 Who (those not understanding) have said, with our tongue shall we prevail: our lips are our own: who is lord over us.
Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousand saints.
Jude 1:15 To EXECUTE JUDGEMENT ON ALL ----is this ALL creation or not ---- and to CONVINCE ALL ---is this ALL creation or not ---- that are ungodly among them of ALL ---is the all or just part ---- their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
Do you think when this JUDGEMENT is EXECUTED against them it will CONVINCE them to TURN from their ways and bow and confess Christ as LORD.
Everyone (ALL) is either going to be a JUDGE or be JUDGED.
All this happens when Christ resurrects the ungodly back to their flesh and blood bodies.
Isaiah 29:9 ....when thy JUDGEMENTS are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Every knee will BOW and every tongue will CONFESS: CHRIST IS LORD.
Romans 14:11
Isaiah 45:23
Philippians 2:10
Romans 10:10 ....and with the mouth confession is made unto SALVATION.
Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christ (Christ is the word, so there shall arise false words), and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; in so much that, IF IT WERE POSSIBLE (but is not possible), they should deceive the very elect.
Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, WHO WERE ORDAINED TO THIS CONDEMNATION .....
God says he himself has caused this and brought it to pass.
Luke 22:31 ....Satan has desired to have you, THAT HE MAY SIFT YOU as wheat ....
Luke 22:32 But I WILL PRAY FOR YOU: that your faith (the faith of Christ) fail not .... IT'S CHRIST'S WORKS ....
Isaiah 28:21 ....that he may do HIS WORK, HIS STRANGE WORK; and bring TO PASS his act, HIS STRANGE ACT.
Isaiah 45:9 Woe unto him that striveth with his maker! Let the potsherds strive with the potsherds of the earth, Shall the clay say to him that fashioned it, What makest thou? OR THY WORK, He hath no hands?
Isaiah 48:10 Behold I have refined the, but not with silver, I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.
Matthew 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself; but endureth for awhile, and when tribulations and persecutions ariseth because of the WORD, by and by he is offended.
Christ had many disciples, but when the words became to hard for them they went the way of the world.
Matthew 13:23 ..... and false prophets, shall show great signs and wonders .....
Revelation .... and with him the false prophet ....were cast alive into the a lake of fire burning with BRIMSTONE
Isaiah 30:33 ....the breath of the Lord, like a stream of BRIMSTONE, doeth kindle it.
Isaiah 33:14 ...Who among us SHALL DWELL with the devouring fire ( Hebrews 12:29)? who amongst us SHALL DWELL with everlasting burning?
Isaiah 9:5 For every battle of the warrior is with confused noise and garments rolled in blood, but this (battle) shall be with burning and fuel of fire.
Isaiah 9:18 ...and the people shall be the fuel of the fire .....
This is a tough scripture, the sons of God and the daughters of men. Some consider the sons of God to be the line of Seth and the daughters of men the line of Cain. Then if we throw in what Jesus said in Matt. 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven, wow.
There is no need for angels in heaven to marry, they are immortal, and no need to reproduce as we will be after the resurrection in the kingdom on the new earth. Angels are called sons of God in Hebrew b'nai Elohim in Job 1:6Job 2:1Job 38:7.
Through scripture angels take on human form, they eat and drink Gen. 18:7-8Gen. 19:3 and physically wrestle with man, Gen. 32:24. If they eat and drink would that mean they have all the organs of man on earth? Scripture tells us there are devils/demons and fallen angels on earth along with Satan but there is another group of angels. These angels are different, they are locked in chains of darkness in the bottomless pit until judgment. 2 Peter 2:4-7Jude 1:6-7. We see in Rev. 9:11 this pit has a king, and this is where Satan will be locked up for 1000 years.
They left their first estate, heaven and in 2 Peter and Jude it says making them an example, (going after strange flesh), they corrupted God's creation Gen. 6:5-7. Even though there are fallen angels roaming the earth this set of angels God made an example to the others they will be locked in chains of darkness until judgment. We see the devils in Mark 5:9-10 were in fear Jesus might cast them down to the bottomless pit.
We see that this happened again after the flood, Gen. 6:4 "and also after." The description in scripture is clear these are not just tall people. 2 Samuel 21:16Joshua 12:4Numbers 13:33Deuteronomy 2:19-21Deuteronomy 20:17Amos 2:9. This is just a small amount of information but may it will help in your study.
Hi Bonnie. There are probably several methods that people have used to help in memorization; and as the old adage goes, 'Repetition is the mother of learning' is one that is most often used.
However, when it comes to Scripture memorization, we need to remember that this is the Holy Word of God that we have in our hands, as 2 Timothy 3:16,17 tells us, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."
So I believe that both memorizing & understanding God's Word must have God's Holy Spirit to assist & guide us. Without Him, all that is written in the Bible are simply words holding limited value, with any memorization attempt only little more than what a child at school would memorize by rote. You probably already know many verses, with Psalm 23, John 3:16, and Romans 3:23 among the top ones known by many Christians. One good way to add to this, is by reading & meditating on the verses around them & as you read them over & over again, the Spirit will cement these others verses, not just in your mind, but more importantly deep in your heart. And when they are stored in the heart, they will more easily come to remembrance - very useful when you need to hear it when in trouble.
My other advice is, not to attempt to memorize large portions of Scripture, because that will be very difficult & if you forget something, you may get discouraged. Go one verse at a time, slowly building up on other verses, particularly those that specially speak to you, meaningful, which you can also use to help others. And if possible, try to memorize the Bible references as well, alongwith the verse, so you can easily go back to it or show the verse to someone else. I'm sure others here will give you some good advice. May the Lord renew your love & memory power for storing up His Word in your heart.
I read my bible, and have trouble remembering it, do you have any suggestions on how I may retain it better, I am 58 and memory not the best? Thank you & God Bless!
A brief point to this is that God uses Satan for His purposes (as stated in my recent posts). God has allowed this usurper to complete his purposes for the redemption of man ( Genesis 3) to the crucifixion and betrayal of Christ based on prophecies of Judas in Psalm 109; etc. God has to have an instrument to do these evil things as He himself cannot sin. Christ had to take on our sins as the innocent lamb after a sinless life of obedience. Thus; He CANNOT do otherwise; no other meethod than belief in the Son of God and no other work will atone for our sins; thus in creation there is no way we can "save ourselves."
ALL of these things bring glory to God; and He is praised forever. In eternity; of course we will begin to live as we were designed to in a sinless state learning evermore from God and enjoying the splendors of heaven.
Sin therefore for God's elect is never "stronger" as it were than God's mercy and forgiveness. There are simply two realities; one for those saved and one for the lost. It appears as the wheat and tares there is no difference as we all live in the world but are not OF it.
As always; I feel remiss if I don't make an extremely strong push here towards conveying jut how real the enemy is and his stranglehold over this world. But as with the way we approach God; the book of Jude makes it clear we dare not make a "railing accusation" ( Jude 1:9). We appeal to the Lord or we stand vulnerable to being squashed like a bug.
Understanding how sin; and evil men facilitate God's plans are beyond our understanding; nonetheless Pilate put up the INRI on the cross stating who Christ was (King of the Jews). The Lord has the last laugh (and as I stated before is the only one in destruction of the wicked to be able to do that without sinning).
Again probably this brings more questions. I hope you get some joy as 2023 comes in.
I suppose this post has been up; I didn't know my opinion was of interest-seems like Gigi did an extensive one; and "ontological" is beyond my "pay grade" in terms of scientific vocabulary.
I tried to start responding and as always my extra tabs wiped out the page. Anyway; it is somewhat heartening that you seem to know the Lord.
Starting off here; I'm too lazy to once again get all the exact quotes. Roughly speaking I was going to say that in Psalm 139 we are said to be "fearfully and wonderfully made." In Ecclesiastes 7:29 the "uprightness" of man is mentioned but that he goes astray for "many inventions". A big point many make is about the age of accountability. I can't see how anyone is lost forever in condemnation without understanding some basic things about sin and punishment which probably begins with child rearing. David's quote about the child that died seems to indicate a certainty that he will see him someday but not until he dies ( 2 Samuel 12:23).
Sin; death and decay (as brought up through the concept of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics) really can't be explained other than it happens; much like concepts like gravity. I would say simply the spirit of a man lives foreever; whether in restored (saved) condition or lost. Man would have lived forever in an "innocent" state if he hadn't sinned. This would not have enabled him to rule and reign with Christ as we can now; nor fulfilled His plans for free agents in the spirit realm to choose to rebel or remain with Him in their "proper estate". ( Jude 1:6). Whether we understand sin as we get older we see more and more of the effects. God has designed this world to unwind; and eventually be destroyed and replaced with a new heaven and earth. Things in the sovereignty of God ( Deut. 29:29) remain there at least this side of eternity. Proverbs 25:2 states that kings have some things revealed which may suggest as "kings and priests" in Him some understanding comes. We are not God who knows all.
Love you brother, read your posts just don't reply much anymore. Just something to consider, many are looking for The antichrist, as there is just one that is coming. In Rev. 13:2-9 we see the first beast is given 42 months/3.5 years to make war and overcome the saints, if we are still living that's us. I agree he ascends from the bottomless pit, Rev. 9,13,11,17, the king of those spoken of in 2 Pet. 2:4 and Jude 1:6 and Gen. 6.
There is a second beast, he is the one who creates an image of this first beast, and he is the one who makes people worship it and take the mark, the false prophet Rev. 13:11-15. We know these two beasts are here together with Satan/the dragon Rev. 12, because the false prophet, the second beast, is the one who does the miracles and does them in sight of the first beast.
Jude 1:19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
(looks like, this speaks about causing problem to himself)
But in Tyndale it says
Jude 1:19 These are makers of sectes fleshlie havynge no sprete.
(looks like, this speaks about causing problem to the church)
In BSB it says: These are the ones who cause divisions, who are worldly and devoid of the Spirit.
Which one is correct "separate themselves" or "makers of sectes" or "cause divisions" as in other translations?
Because both "separate themselves" and "cause divisions" are different in meaning.
"Why do we say that sanctification makes us blameless, not faultless? Because the Grace of God working in us does not make us infallible. Sin has so perverted our moral and spiritual powers that we shall never in this present life be free from the infirmities of human nature."
This is a subtle lie, cleverly disguise within a lot of truth, whether intentional or not, I hope it was the later.
blameless def; is an adjective that means "innocent of wrongdoing" or "free from blame or fault"
faultless def; is an adjective that means having no fault, mistake, defect, imperfection, blemish, flaw, error, vice, or offense. It describes something that is perfect in all respect
Titus 2:11-14 all iniquity
Jude 1:24 faultless without blame, without blemish, faultless.
From a (as a negative particle) and momos; unblemished (literally or figuratively) -- without blame (blemish, fault, spot), faultless, unblamable.
Ephesians 5:27
The Grace of God is the Almighty, who we have in these earthen vessels; Isa 14:27 only to the unbelievers are these things impossible Matt 13:58 Hebrews 3:19
I'll share some "meat" with you that you can respond by telling me whether you agree or not with what I am sharing with you below.
In the following three verses, Jesus uses the term "...cannot be my disciple" implying that Discipleship is a mandatory requirement to becoming "saved':
"If any man come to me, and hate not [meaning love less than Christ] his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, HE CANNOT BE MY DISCIPLE." ( Luke 14:26)
"And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, CANNOT BE MY DISCIPLE." ( Luke 14:27)
"So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all [of his worldly possessions] that he hath, HE CANNOT BE MY DISCIPLE." ( Luke 14:33)
In this last verse, Jesus is again saying to every Christian - in much the same way as he said to the rich young ruler - "...sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me." ( Luke 18:22-23)
When I came to Jesus some 30+ years ago, I had the choice to abandon ALL that I had and take up my cross and follow Jesus or chase family members who had rejected me for no reason at all. I willingly chose to make that choice to follow Jesus, and have never regretted doing so.
However, such choices also require God's people to bring forth "...PATIENCE and FAITH in all your PERSECUTIONS and TRIBULATIONS that ye endure" (2 Thes 1:4) together with "... INFIRMITIES, in REPROACHES, in NECESSITIES, in PERSECUTIONS, in DISTRESSES for Christ's sake" ( 2 Cor 12:10) while "...earnestly CONTENDING FOR THE FAITH" ( Jude 1:3) among those who "...corrupt the word of God ( 2 Cor. 2:17).
Given that most Christians profess that they have ETERNAL SECURITY (which contradicts Phil 2:12 and 1 Peter 5:8-9), how do you relate to the scripture verses in Luke 14 above?
Blessings, Alan
4. 1 John 1:7-10; We all come into the world as miserable sinners Rom 3:23; but with the coming of Christ/Grace we don't have to stay that way, Rom 3:24; through the obedience of faith in the Light of His Countenance that shine in our heart, 7-10 explains the operations of Grace appearance, John 16:8 bringing these to seeds into judgment within conscience, if we then say we have not sin, we deceive ourselves ,make Him a liar & the Truth/Word is not engraft within us. But if received, He cleanses us from all unrighteousness, iniquity, transgression & sin, Titus 2:14; By receiving His convictions, is the Power received, & everyone that 1John 3:3; is experience. So there a time when He finds us in sin, & a time that He cleanse from all sin.
5. Jude 1:21-24; ; Keeping yourselves in the love of God/ is by keeping His commandments, 1John 2:3-6; John 14:24; the Light of His Countenance that shine in our hearts
& in doing so He will keep you from falling, present you faultless! This is obviously from sinning against Him.
1. It could have been in reference to "some" believers who were being influenced by the false teachers in Jude 1:4 who "...crept in unawares...", and compassion was needed to ground them in the faith so they would not depart from the faith.
2. The "Some" could also have been those who were close to being saved, and great compassion was needed to bring them to a place of receiving Christ as Saviour.
This is for those who were wondering what it meant.
God Bless you!
John 5:24. actually says exactly that along with a accumulation of scripture when discerning them properly.
Here's John 5:24. "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; BUT IS PASSED FROM DEATH UNTO LIFE".
Also see John 11:25-26.
There's physical death and there is spiritual death.
Everyone will die the physical death, ( Once.) Hebrews 9:27. Jesus took care of the Spitual death on the cross.
Those who haven't trusted Christ is ALREADY SPIRITUALLY DEAD! There is no sequence to this. You see it in Jude 1:12 "These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, TWICE DEAD, plucked up by the roots;
Revelation 20:13-14. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. THIS IS THE SECOND DEATH.
This concept is spreaded broadly throughout scripture when interpreted right.
Romans 6:3-11.
Ephesians 2:1-9. And you HATH HE QUICKENED, who were dead in trespasses and sins: He gave life!
This is there present condition.
He didn't say "You whom he WILL quicken!"
If we don't have eternal life now, we don't have nothing to apply our faith to.
God bless.
3. The word of God the Bible is either it has happened, or it is happening, and it is for us set as an example for how we should live before the Lord our God. it is also very current and accurate. See Malach 3:16 and Jude 1:7. thus
it is written in Hebrews 4:12
12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
and in 2 timothy 3:16
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work
-And There are prophecy which will come to be fulfilled like the coming of the ant-Christ but remember there are many anti-Christ today.
as it is written in 1 John 2:18
Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour
4. anyone who turns away from sins makes himself a prey it is written in.
Isaiah 59:15
Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the Lord saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment.
-So the devil does not care for anyone who calls himself Christian but is not committed. But if anyone is committed and obeys Gods word and does all is written in the bible then Satan shifts all his attentions to them and hence the wiles of the devil. Therefore, put all the Armour of God not one but all. as it is written in Ephesians 6:11
11Put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Please read part 3.
Amen
I know we have different understandings of this and I am probably in the minority but that is ok. To me, it hinges on whether the soul is mortal or immortal and I have not found any scripture that supports the soul is immortal when comparing all scriptures about the soul, (I hope that makes sense).
Like 1 Thess. 4:13-17 My understanding is Paul is trying to ensure the people their loved ones who believed in Jesus who had died (asleep) would not be left out of the resurrection when Jesus returns. "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him." If we believe Jesus died and rose we who die before He returns will also rise (resurrect, awake) from our sleep (death).
"God will bring with him" seems to fit the picture in Jude 1:14-15, but does it agree with being resurrected? My understanding is 1 Thess. 4:17 The earth is round and those resurrected when Jesus returns will meet Him in the air and He brings those with Him down with Him, not going back up.
2 Cor. 5:6-8 We all look forward to being with Jesus but when will we be absent from this body? What is the resurrection of the dead? Resurrection is an awakening, our soul is who we are the essence of our being that is what God resurrects to either eternal life or death, 1 Cor. 15:35-55.
My understanding is our soul is not immortal our soul, that is who we are, and as our body, it is mortal. We will die/sleep until we are resurrected into our immortal body and that is when we will be free and absent from this fleshly body we have now and will be with the Lord.
My understanding is all who have lived will be resurrected John 5:28-29. We will be on the earth when it is made new not in heaven.
If we do not agree on this subject it is ok as long as we treat each other with love and inspire each other to study.
God bless,
RLW
Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-17
But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Jude 1:14,15
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
Now, I have a query on what you had earlier written (& now), in discussion with Jema a few days ago: "So when we look at the nature of God's Judgment program very carefully, we find that the Final Punishment is annihilation, that is destruction". And I quote this as you also shared here, "When was the last time you heard a sermon that focused on the Judgment and Wrath of God for sin?" Obviously, I think I have misunderstood you, where it appears that you believe that the final state of man is, either he's enjoying eternal life with the Lord, or a cessation of all existence (annihilation, as you put it). And then the "Wrath of God for sin" as you now stated. Without making any further assumptions, maybe you could clarify your belief, as in my mind I'm unable to reconcile the two statements.
I believe that Matthew 10:28 was quoted as a reference to the complete destruction of soul & body, to which the Greek word does support; as it does to John 3:16 ("perish"), Romans 2:12, 1 Corinthians 8:11, 2 Peter 3:9, and many others. But reference wasn't made to Daniel 12:1,2; Matthew 18:8,9; Matthew 25:46; Jude 1:7; Revelation 20:10,14,15; & others. In the light of these other Scriptures as well as the essence of the Gospel message which requires an eternal suffering, or else we don't have any Good News of salvation to give, how should we understand your statements? Blessings.
Hi Jimbob. You wrote well though if I could just highlight the 'apostasy' (apostasia), as seen in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, & consider what the Apostle Paul was speaking of here. I realize that it would be simple to understand his statement as applying to believers, before that day of Christ's coming, that some would apostatize by rejecting Christ going back into the world or to embrace another religion. But are we correct to believe that this was what Paul was speaking of in light of his other writings & that of our Lord? (refs. John 10:27-29; John 6:37; 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:13,14; Ephesians 4:30; Romans 8:28-30; Jude 1:24,25; 2 Corinthians 5:17; 2 Timothy 2:19).
When we look at the definition of 'apostasy', it is as you have given ("An abandonment of what one has professed, a total desertion, or departure from one's faith, a total abandonment of the Christian faith"). But 'apostasy' is not simply restricted to a 'total departure from one's faith' but also 'a total departure or abandonment of one's principles, party, cause' (and one could even add 'departure from the Word of God which lays out the principles and Truths of doctrine & righteous living').
Unfortunately, the 2 Thessalonians 2:2-5 passage is not explicit to show us how Paul was applying this 'apostasy'. Obviously, the Thessalonian believers probably knew much more than we have been given (v5 'remember...I told you these things?'). Clearly, this apostasy doesn't relate to principles or causes of the world, because its context shows that Paul is speaking of an apostasy that will affect believers in some way. The question then is: is it the rejection of Christ altogether, or a departure/rejection of the Truth of God's Word? But isn't that the same thing, one could ask? I think you will agree Jimbob, that this rejection of Truth & promotion of unbiblical interpretations & lifestyle, has been going on for a long time - from within the Church itself.
Rev 14:11-12 - this draws a distinction between people burning in hell and people of God (Christians) who "keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus" Those who are inbetween or lukewarm are rejected and won't be saved: Rev 3:16.
Why would the verse say "remain faithful to Jesus" if they are already "saved" people of God? That is conditional. If people chose to not be faithful to Jesus overall they probably aren't people of God.
Rev 13:8 everyone on earth will worship the beast and will burn in hell for eternity according to Rev 14:11.
Rev 2:23. Jesus will repay each according to your deeds.
Rev 2:25. Hold on to the teachings you have until Jesus comes.
Rev 2:5 talks about falling away from the faith- they need to repent.
Rev 1:8 Jesus is the Lord God.
Jude 1:20 Building yourself up in faith. Suggests that building up and keeping the faith takes effort and practice like a muscle.
The scripture is clear what it means. It is the truth. What some people are saying is not the truth and not based on scripture. Beware of that.
Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Ezekiel 36:24-29
For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.
2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Jude 1:24, 25
Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
The true gospel of the Bible is a gospel where God does 100% of the work in saving us and our works cannot and do not contribute to our salvation in any way whatsoever.
If we have become saved it is because God has chosen us, paid for our sins, drawn us, and saved us. And He will therefore KEEP us.
If we are following a gospel where we can lose our salvation, we are not following the gospel of the Bible.
If you're enquiring as to why these books were not included or even removed from the Canon, then the reasons are many. Some of them are: they were never cited as books of reference in the NT (even though we have Jude 1:14,15 & 2 Timothy 3:8 as possible examples). These quotations by Jude & Paul do give some authoritative weight to those books, though they are only mentioned to strengthen the text, just as Paul referred to the Cretians ( Titus 1:12) & in Acts 17:28 (to the Athenian poets).
The Apocrypha books were never accepted by the Jews as divinely inspired writings & were never a part of the Hebrew canon. Those books were written during those 400 'silent years' between the Testaments. Both Jewish & NT sources agree that no divinely inspired prophetic utterance occurred at that time. Jesus never referred to them as He often did to the accepted OT Scriptures. As well, even though some Truth can be gleaned from those books, they do also contain errors, both in historical matters & doctrine. When any writing, then or now, gives details that are contrary to what has been given to us (even that of the NT Apocrypha), then they must be held in suspicion. Many do read from those apocryphal books & have even asked on this Site about their authenticity & authority, but I've always shared that if one is inclined to read or study from them, that they do so guardedly & with utmost care (watching for historical & doctrinal inaccuracies), always resorting to the accepted Canon of Scripture as their final authority.
And Matthew 24:13, "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." Our brother Jesse who is regularly seen on these pages, has shown us from the original Greek language, that our reading of this verse should be: "The one, however, having endured to the end, he will be saved" (direct rendering from the Greek). So, this verse doesn't speak of a Christian enduring to the end & then gaining salvation - there are many other verses that suggest otherwise speaking of the believer's security in Christ now; but that if we truly believe & have God's Holy Spirit in us, we WILL endure to the end - no exceptions, because that is the very Nature & Purpose of the Holy Spirit in us "to keep us from falling (away) & to present us faultless before the presence of His Glory..." ( Jude 1:24).
Lukewarm 'Christians' & those who easily & regularly do despite to the Spirit of Grace in their manner of living, desperately need to be saved & secured in the Love of Christ.
Note: I can't find the prequel as it were to this thread; so the audience may be limited. I may get into further discussion on the main discussion area but will try to sum things up here.
A major issue here that I have opened the "can of worms" on is; in regard to just who is identified as those dressed in white garments which were made that way through blood ( Rev. 7:14 referring to robes). It certainly can be expected that the witness of the 144,000 will bring many to faith and willing martyrdom. Other verses referring those whose garments were made white make verses such as Revelation 3:4; and Zechariah 3:3 be contrasted with Ephesians 5:27. For if some in Laodicea are naked among other things; surely anyone with a garment in God's presence is saved; although it is much like Jude 1:23 being saved as though through the fire; or 1 Corinthians 3:15 where one suffers loss and not much remains after their works are burned up by and large. In other words I would argue that to have a garment in the first place we are saved; if we allow sin to spot it then there are certain ramifications; including what I propose as missing the reward of a rapture if indeed it is more than just a salvation prerequisite. I would strongly suggest in these last days; there is little fruit being produced; and the Lord of the harvest is looking for it. He will either purge us to produce more fruit ( John 15:2) or as the same verse indicates we are not His child (producing no fruit) and are eventually cut off. Again; we need to broaden our scope and see those who are unbelievers; those judged more harshly for hearing and rejecting the truth; lukewarm believers and those who are producing much fruit. We must as Hebrews suggest; believe God is a rewarder of those things done for Him ( Heb. 11:6). We also should pay attention to those seeking a better country ( Heb. 11:16) of those who willingly gave up their lives for this.
"Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."
Genesis 19
4But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:
5And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
I think they were known to be completely wicked in all manner
Please allow me to correct a mistake I made.
I mentioned to you to take
Luke 17:34-37 and Parallel it with Revelation 19:11-18 Focusing on vs 17. On your way to verse 17 notice verrse 14.
Revelation 19:14.
"And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, CLOTHED IN FINE LINEN, WHITE AND CLEAN.
This is also prophesied in Jude 1:14.
These clothed in fine linen is the same group in
Revelation 19:7-8.
"Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
(8) And to her was granted that SHE SHOULD BE ARRAYED IN FINE LINEN, CLEAN AND WHITE: FOR THE FINE LINEN IS THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF SAINTS.
I left out one of the connecting verses. ( Vs 8.)
These are a few of the connecting verses why we believe the Church comes with Christ on his second coming.
Luke 17:37.
Revelation 19:17.
Jude 1:14.
Revelation 19:7-8.
God bless.
I will give you my view and I will extend to vs 37.
vs 36-37 is where the answer is.
"Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, THITHER WILL THE EAGLES BE GATHERED TOGETHER.
Now parallel it with.
Revelation 19:11-18. "focusing on vs 17."
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
( vs14) And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, CLOTHED IN FINE LINEN, WHITE AND CLEAN.
(Parallels with; Jude 1:14.)
Those clothed in fine linen is the same group in Revelation 19:7.
THIS GROUP IS THE BRIDE OF CHRIST. THE CHURCH!!
15) And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16) And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
17) And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the FOWLS THAT FLY IN THE MIDST OF HEAVEN, COME AND GATHER YOURSELVES TOGETHER unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
THIS GROUP IS TAKEN FOR JUDGMENT.
This is after the tribulation and the Church comes with him, They were raptured atleast 7 years prior.
Those left goes on into the Millennium. Those taken, Judgment as well in Matthew 24.
God bless.
Jude 1:20 But ye (you are the body of Christ), BELOVED, building up yourselves (in the truth of God's words) on your most HOLY FAITH (you were resurrected with CHRIST, your the body of Christ, it's HIS HOLY FAITH IN YOU, his body, praying in the HOLY GHOST (your mouth is the mouth of GOD, it's his words that come out of your mouth.
Christ said OF MYSELF, I can do nothing, the words you hear are my Father's words, the works you see are my Father's works, Christ is the body of his Father, we are the body of Christ, the words that come out of our mouth are the words of Christ, the works we do are not our works, but the works of Christ.
Man's teaching have destroyed the truth of the gospel.
That they may be ONE as we are ONE
Ephesians 4:4 ..... ONE BODY (that contains the LIFE of God) ......ONE SPIRIT (the LIFE of the body) ...
Ephesians 4:6 .....ONE GOD .....Father of ALL ......
You have to have your carnal mind destroyed by God's words and have the mind of Christ replace your carnal mind.
When you pray in the HOLY GHOST, you pray in the NAME OF JESUS (your his wife, you were MADE ONE by his resurrection, he has given you HIS NAME, he is the LIFE IN YOU, it's his word, nis prrayer
Psalms 12:4 Who (those not understanding) have said, with our tongue shall we prevail: our lips are our own: who is lord over us.
God Bless YOU!
Are you going to judge the world with Christ?
Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousand saints.
Jude 1:15 To EXECUTE JUDGEMENT ON ALL ----is this ALL creation or not ---- and to CONVINCE ALL ---is this ALL creation or not ---- that are ungodly among them of ALL ---is the all or just part ---- their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
Do you think when this JUDGEMENT is EXECUTED against them it will CONVINCE them to TURN from their ways and bow and confess Christ as LORD.
Everyone (ALL) is either going to be a JUDGE or be JUDGED.
All this happens when Christ resurrects the ungodly back to their flesh and blood bodies.
Isaiah 29:9 ....when thy JUDGEMENTS are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Every knee will BOW and every tongue will CONFESS: CHRIST IS LORD.
Romans 14:11
Isaiah 45:23
Philippians 2:10
Romans 10:10 ....and with the mouth confession is made unto SALVATION.
God Bless YOU!
Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christ (Christ is the word, so there shall arise false words), and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; in so much that, IF IT WERE POSSIBLE (but is not possible), they should deceive the very elect.
Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, WHO WERE ORDAINED TO THIS CONDEMNATION .....
God says he himself has caused this and brought it to pass.
Luke 22:31 ....Satan has desired to have you, THAT HE MAY SIFT YOU as wheat ....
Luke 22:32 But I WILL PRAY FOR YOU: that your faith (the faith of Christ) fail not .... IT'S CHRIST'S WORKS ....
Isaiah 28:21 ....that he may do HIS WORK, HIS STRANGE WORK; and bring TO PASS his act, HIS STRANGE ACT.
Isaiah 45:9 Woe unto him that striveth with his maker! Let the potsherds strive with the potsherds of the earth, Shall the clay say to him that fashioned it, What makest thou? OR THY WORK, He hath no hands?
Isaiah 48:10 Behold I have refined the, but not with silver, I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.
Matthew 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself; but endureth for awhile, and when tribulations and persecutions ariseth because of the WORD, by and by he is offended.
Christ had many disciples, but when the words became to hard for them they went the way of the world.
Matthew 13:23 ..... and false prophets, shall show great signs and wonders .....
Revelation .... and with him the false prophet ....were cast alive into the a lake of fire burning with BRIMSTONE
Isaiah 30:33 ....the breath of the Lord, like a stream of BRIMSTONE, doeth kindle it.
Isaiah 33:14 ...Who among us SHALL DWELL with the devouring fire ( Hebrews 12:29)? who amongst us SHALL DWELL with everlasting burning?
Isaiah 9:5 For every battle of the warrior is with confused noise and garments rolled in blood, but this (battle) shall be with burning and fuel of fire.
Isaiah 9:18 ...and the people shall be the fuel of the fire .....
God Bless YOU!
This is a tough scripture, the sons of God and the daughters of men. Some consider the sons of God to be the line of Seth and the daughters of men the line of Cain. Then if we throw in what Jesus said in Matt. 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven, wow.
There is no need for angels in heaven to marry, they are immortal, and no need to reproduce as we will be after the resurrection in the kingdom on the new earth. Angels are called sons of God in Hebrew b'nai Elohim in Job 1:6 Job 2:1 Job 38:7.
Through scripture angels take on human form, they eat and drink Gen. 18:7-8 Gen. 19:3 and physically wrestle with man, Gen. 32:24. If they eat and drink would that mean they have all the organs of man on earth? Scripture tells us there are devils/demons and fallen angels on earth along with Satan but there is another group of angels. These angels are different, they are locked in chains of darkness in the bottomless pit until judgment. 2 Peter 2:4-7 Jude 1:6-7. We see in Rev. 9:11 this pit has a king, and this is where Satan will be locked up for 1000 years.
They left their first estate, heaven and in 2 Peter and Jude it says making them an example, (going after strange flesh), they corrupted God's creation Gen. 6:5-7. Even though there are fallen angels roaming the earth this set of angels God made an example to the others they will be locked in chains of darkness until judgment. We see the devils in Mark 5:9-10 were in fear Jesus might cast them down to the bottomless pit.
We see that this happened again after the flood, Gen. 6:4 "and also after." The description in scripture is clear these are not just tall people. 2 Samuel 21:16 Joshua 12:4 Numbers 13:33 Deuteronomy 2:19-21 Deuteronomy 20:17 Amos 2:9. This is just a small amount of information but may it will help in your study.
God bless,
RLW
However, when it comes to Scripture memorization, we need to remember that this is the Holy Word of God that we have in our hands, as 2 Timothy 3:16,17 tells us, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."
So I believe that both memorizing & understanding God's Word must have God's Holy Spirit to assist & guide us. Without Him, all that is written in the Bible are simply words holding limited value, with any memorization attempt only little more than what a child at school would memorize by rote. You probably already know many verses, with Psalm 23, John 3:16, and Romans 3:23 among the top ones known by many Christians. One good way to add to this, is by reading & meditating on the verses around them & as you read them over & over again, the Spirit will cement these others verses, not just in your mind, but more importantly deep in your heart. And when they are stored in the heart, they will more easily come to remembrance - very useful when you need to hear it when in trouble.
My other advice is, not to attempt to memorize large portions of Scripture, because that will be very difficult & if you forget something, you may get discouraged. Go one verse at a time, slowly building up on other verses, particularly those that specially speak to you, meaningful, which you can also use to help others. And if possible, try to memorize the Bible references as well, alongwith the verse, so you can easily go back to it or show the verse to someone else. I'm sure others here will give you some good advice. May the Lord renew your love & memory power for storing up His Word in your heart.
ALL of these things bring glory to God; and He is praised forever. In eternity; of course we will begin to live as we were designed to in a sinless state learning evermore from God and enjoying the splendors of heaven.
Sin therefore for God's elect is never "stronger" as it were than God's mercy and forgiveness. There are simply two realities; one for those saved and one for the lost. It appears as the wheat and tares there is no difference as we all live in the world but are not OF it.
As always; I feel remiss if I don't make an extremely strong push here towards conveying jut how real the enemy is and his stranglehold over this world. But as with the way we approach God; the book of Jude makes it clear we dare not make a "railing accusation" ( Jude 1:9). We appeal to the Lord or we stand vulnerable to being squashed like a bug.
Understanding how sin; and evil men facilitate God's plans are beyond our understanding; nonetheless Pilate put up the INRI on the cross stating who Christ was (King of the Jews). The Lord has the last laugh (and as I stated before is the only one in destruction of the wicked to be able to do that without sinning).
Again probably this brings more questions. I hope you get some joy as 2023 comes in.
Agape; Rich P
I tried to start responding and as always my extra tabs wiped out the page. Anyway; it is somewhat heartening that you seem to know the Lord.
Starting off here; I'm too lazy to once again get all the exact quotes. Roughly speaking I was going to say that in Psalm 139 we are said to be "fearfully and wonderfully made." In Ecclesiastes 7:29 the "uprightness" of man is mentioned but that he goes astray for "many inventions". A big point many make is about the age of accountability. I can't see how anyone is lost forever in condemnation without understanding some basic things about sin and punishment which probably begins with child rearing. David's quote about the child that died seems to indicate a certainty that he will see him someday but not until he dies ( 2 Samuel 12:23).
Sin; death and decay (as brought up through the concept of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics) really can't be explained other than it happens; much like concepts like gravity. I would say simply the spirit of a man lives foreever; whether in restored (saved) condition or lost. Man would have lived forever in an "innocent" state if he hadn't sinned. This would not have enabled him to rule and reign with Christ as we can now; nor fulfilled His plans for free agents in the spirit realm to choose to rebel or remain with Him in their "proper estate". ( Jude 1:6). Whether we understand sin as we get older we see more and more of the effects. God has designed this world to unwind; and eventually be destroyed and replaced with a new heaven and earth. Things in the sovereignty of God ( Deut. 29:29) remain there at least this side of eternity. Proverbs 25:2 states that kings have some things revealed which may suggest as "kings and priests" in Him some understanding comes. We are not God who knows all.
Love you brother, read your posts just don't reply much anymore. Just something to consider, many are looking for The antichrist, as there is just one that is coming. In Rev. 13:2-9 we see the first beast is given 42 months/3.5 years to make war and overcome the saints, if we are still living that's us. I agree he ascends from the bottomless pit, Rev. 9,13,11,17, the king of those spoken of in 2 Pet. 2:4 and Jude 1:6 and Gen. 6.
There is a second beast, he is the one who creates an image of this first beast, and he is the one who makes people worship it and take the mark, the false prophet Rev. 13:11-15. We know these two beasts are here together with Satan/the dragon Rev. 12, because the false prophet, the second beast, is the one who does the miracles and does them in sight of the first beast.
Just something to consider.
God bless,
RLW
The word "epistle" means letter. The word Gospel means "Good News"