In Hebrews 13 vs 5 the Lord said "I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee"
Thank God the staying power is in the hands of Jesus who also says in John 10:27-28 "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Jesus is that Great Shepherd that leaves the ninety nine sheep and goes after the one lost in the wilderness illustrating God's immense love and pursuit of every individual, even when many are already safe; He prioritizes the lost one,
Jesus is that solid rock foundation!
If we built on him we will never stray!
If one final destiny is hell he built on sand and was never of the sheep fold!
He's one of those mentioned in Matthew 7 where Jesus says "I never knew you"
These postings of mine doesn't go out to any certain denomination, it goes out to the individual!
We must examine ourselves!
Salvation isn't defined or authenticated by what we know or even what we are doing on the outside!
It's what's cleaned on the inside!
It's a new birth!
It's not whether you "accepted Christ"
It's did you "RECEIVE" Christ!
If you have received Christ, "it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Philippians 2:13.
jonny dangerous, you have to forgive her and pray for her. If you don't a root of bitterness will spring up in you. I had to pray for a woman that destroyed my home. and rob me of my husband, and my home. Then I had to pray for her, it wasn't for her, it was for me. John 10:10 The thief cometh not but to steal, kill, and to destroy. And you are the target.
"Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?"
The latest debacle in regard to setting a Rapture date (the primary one this past Rosh Hashanah Sept 23) and subsequent failed predictions has no doubt caused some to use this as an excuse to shipwreck the faith. It saddens me to see how at least one person I highly respected get caught up in this and endless number patterns which is basically an occult way to cause people to make predictions. There are some who used to be focused on reaching the lost and fulfilling the Great Commission who have become sidetracked. One great problem with many so called movements of God today is the obsession on "revival" which ignores the errors of false revivals of the past and also how inevitably Satan will counterfeit true movements of God at some point.
Again being unaware of these things is not being discerning scripturally. Another part of the problem is our attempt to convince God to bring blessings whether or not we are obedient to His Word. This was discussed briefly at the Sunday service I attended in regard to Jabez in scripture and a book that discussed the subject popular around 2001. Those who truly are going to be blessed don't spend much time if any obsessing on that subject which perhaps the verse illustrates; God granted something when it wasn't embellished with lengthy words and obsessing on it. Basically those He will bless He blesses and curse He curses and that is directly related to a life of obedience or lack thereof and true love of the Lord. There is NO indication in scripture of quantity being more important than the quality of a believer; the Great Commission does say to pray for more workers for the harvest but those who are recipients in the harvest are predetermined. John 10:1 warns us about snyone attempting to come into the pen any other way to the sheepfold. There is only one method to salvation and that involves knowing the voice of the Shephard; His sheep know His voice.
Hi again June 316. As much as your question can generate various opinions, my belief is that if a Christian has truly been born again, having received the Holy Spirit to indwell, sustain & secure him/her, then it is impossible for that person to have God's Spirit abandon him/her for any reason.
It is however true, that if a believer should succumb to the enemy's temptations and does not take remedial action as the Holy Spirit directs, then there will be loss. Not a loss of the Holy Spirit or salvation, but the loss of sweet communion, maybe of some degree of estrangement if sin is allowed to persist, and of the Spirit's intervention by way of warning or discipline. Or the Spirit might even allow that erring soul to taste the depravity of his/her sin, so that they may come to their senses, repent, and be restored; the story of the prodigal son is a good example of a poor choice made and yet, of a waiting loving father who is ready to forgive, receive, and restore ( Luke 15:11-32).
Just a few verses to consider (and there are many more): John 10:26-29; Romans 8:33-39; Ephesians 1:13,14; Ephesians 2:8-10; Philippians 1:6; 1 Peter 1:3-5; Jude 1:24,25.
This is why we often read of the apostles encouraging believers to be on guard against the enemy of our souls, of sin creeping into the life, and not being involved in anything that even smells of sin; Why? Not for salvation's loss, but for suffering under God's Hand of discipline and the pain of estrangement from God.
Why should we entertain anything that breaks our special love relationship with our God & Savior & bring on ourselves sorrow upon sorrow? The Holy Spirit will always alert us when we err and will always bring us back, so salvation cannot be lost. But for those who feel no sorrow or estrangement when they stray, they do not have the Holy Spirit within them and are not saved. But while they have breath, there remains hope if they draw near to God, He will draw near to them. GBU.
There's those in the OT that passed on that is not considered part of the new covenant and is not part of Christ Church.
They were saved by faith but under the old covenant and rituals that pointed to their Messiah's finish work on the cross freeing them from the bondage that held them captive.
The difference between Israel and the rest of the world was that they were heirs of the land, Davidic and Kingdom promises to Abraham.
(Not to be mistaken for the recipient of the promises shown mentioned in Galatians 3:29 referring to Christ.)
However we all should know there's no entering into the presence of God without the door. John 10:9. That goes for all ages.
These specific promises is after the Gathering of the Gentiles into the body of Christ. "The Church" as shown in Acts 15:14-16
"Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
"AFTER THIS" I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
The old testament prophets prophesied about the gather of Israel, (Post Church) and the Davidic Kingdom.
References-
Romans 11:25-26.
Romans 9:25-26 echoing Hosea 2:23.
Isaiah 40:9
Joel 2:3-32.
Isaiah 11:11-12.
The Lord calls Zion(Israel) his people several times in these verses.
..2:18 Then will the LORD be jealous for his land, and pity HIS PEOPLE.
In Isaiah 11:11 the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people.
This is not the Church but a people and elect of God for the purpose of God!
Thanks for your reply. I understand many see this as comfort, similar to what you hear at a funeral when the preacher says Bob is with Jesus in heaven. Am I going to tell that loved one No, he is not? NO, but what is the actual truth?
Ecclesiastes 9:5, if we die, we know nothing. Psalms 115:17 I believe that if our spirit were alive in heaven, we would be praising the LORD. Our only hope of eternal life is in Jesus; this comes when we are resurrected, not before, 1 Corinthians 15:52-54.
Not to drag this out, I will say, if we all have an immortal spirit, there is no death and no true gift of eternal life because we already possess it. John 3:15, John 10:28, Romans 2:7, Romans 6:23, 1 John 2:25. This is our promise. The others receive death; they will perish, John 3:16, 2 Thessalonians 2:10, 2 Peter 2:12. The word perish is to destroy fully, permanent, absolute destruction. Revelation 21:8 their part, their punishment, and death will fit their sins, not burn for eternity.
Death is not a separation, as Greek philosophy puts it, which has influenced today's understanding.
you commented about hearing/listening. I'm not sure if I understood your post correctly, but it's important to approach this concept carefully, because it is very common in Christian teachings, but it is not found as a specific verse in the Bible.
I am studying and have faith in only one that is based on the Bible and its instructions. In other words, there is no single verse that explicitly lists these three voices. Rather, it is a theological synthesis or a principle derived from various passages that, together, describe the sources of influence and thought in our lives.
Let's break down this concept and look at the verses that foundation each part:
1. The Voice of God (The Holy Spirit)
The Bible often describes God speaking to His people, guiding them, and granting discernment.
John 10:27: "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me." This is a key verse that supports the idea that believers can discern Jesus' voice.
1 Kings 19:11-13: God did not speak to Elijah in the powerful wind, the earthquake, or the fire, but in a "gentle whisper." This illustrates that God's voice is often discerned in quietness and intimacy.
John 14:26: "But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you." The Holy Spirit is presented as the internal voice that guides and teaches.
If your "battle" is with believing that Jesus is God, may I suggest the following scriptures for your consideration:
Genesis 1:1 along with John 1:1-3, Revelation 19:13, Colossians 1:15-17, Matthew 1:23, John 10:30, John 14:9, Mark 2:5-7, John 8:58, John 20:28, Isaiah 9:6, Philippians 2:5-7, Colossians 2:9, 1 Timothy 3:16, Hebrews 1:8, 2 Peter 1:1, Revelation 1:8, John 5:18, 1 John 5:20, Luke 24:52, John 9:38, Acts 10:25-26, Titus 2:13, Hebrews 1:3, Revelation 22:13, Micah 5:2, John 17:5, John 1:14. There are more, but these should suffice.
You mention that "Christians say that there is no separation between Christ and God," and that the bible shows otherwise. Jesus said I and my Father are one, and He also said that if you have seen Me, you have seen the Father. This may not mean anything to you, but in the book of Hebrews, Jesus is described as the APOUGASMA (the out beam) of God's glory, God projecting Himself through the time/space factor in the person of Christ. Jesus Christ, being God, was never separated from the source. This is why Jesus can say if you have seen Me, you have seen the Father.
The best example I can give would be taking a flashlight in a dark room and shining it on a wall. The flashlight is the source, and the light is projected on the wall from the source. There is no separation unless the flashlight is turned off. Now, imagine the flashlight being God, and the light shining on the wall is Jesus, again, no separation. Jesus is said to be the true light which came down from heaven, the APOUGASMA of God.
If you are sincerely struggling with the deity of Jesus Christ (Him being God), I hope these scriptures I've provided might help. Also, if you would like, I can share my personal understanding on Matthew 26:39 and Luke 22:42 and why Christ would ask this.
If I may ask, are you a Christian? If so, who do you say Jesus is?
Dear "A" I pray for you every day, if it can be a comfort, and with me many more. U are not alone. Be strong and brave. And the day in court is approaching fast. Quite prescient that you get some good advice here now. And do not be afraid, Jesus has promised to be with you all the days until the end of the world. So if you believe in Him. He will help you. Something that can affect other people's views on things is that a person is often judged by how they look, so do your best to look good and healthy. Be open and honest. And you should not feel like a failure. Call on Jesus within you all the time, and you will receive words that are right. (And in that small matter, self-pity lies lurking. Throw it away)! Nobody cares and in any case not lawyers and judges. Compassion is something they hide very well, Hope you understand what I mean. The best thing is to avoid the courts if you can. They have to do their job, that's how it is. But now it's not like that, then you have to make the best of what you have. If I'm not mistaken, it strengthens your case that you have been and reported the matter to the police before. His attacks against you are many times what people resort to when they know they are wrong. Then unfortunately they can win out, in injustice.
We will pray that injustice departs from you NOW in Jesus Christ's Holy Name, the Name above all other Names, and that "fox" is caught and cast into the deepest darkness and righteousness shall flow forward in your life from now on forth in Jesus Christ's Name, And we pray to Lord Jesus that the people that "A" meets over the weekend, that all of them look with favor on her cause. So that she wins. And she and many more will honor Your Name forever Jesus Christ, You are King, Amen.
I feel duty bound to mention scripture; ALL scripture. In this case no doubt heated discussions could arise and when I say something that goes against tradition (such as all believers being raptured) I have to hold to Scripture first. Irregardless of the complexities here; of course there are many "professors" rather than Holy Spirit possessors out there which is dangerous at any time for our spiritual well being even if His coming is a ways off.
In general; sin is a reproach to any people ( Proverbs 14:34); although this verse is talking about a nation rather than individuals.
Whether by Rapture or death indeed we all have an appointment with God and trivializing sin isn't helpful for anyone. Sin not only progresses until death but metastasizes from an occasional occurrence to a habit to a lifestyle. In sanctification there is no doubt in my mind that God uses our failures to chastise us; so narcissism as an attitude dismissing sin as harmless error; etc is not beneficial. As true saints of God we should be the first ones to be transparent in this regard. Self justification is also a later stage of sin where we get to the point where we don't care what anyone thinks; hence we are no longer open to correction.
John 10:27-28 says 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. We see here the knowing between both parties and recognition of His voice. The Lord aggressively goes after His sheep but His sheep recognize His voice; they may be running away like Jonah or have other reactions that aren't beneficial but they cannot deny His presence and guidance. Those who are NOT His sheep usually are left alone; hence as Solomon states in Ecclesiastes 8:1
11 Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.
Romans 13:9 "For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."
Hello Lbooth1955. I'll share some Scriptures that show that a true believer, baptized with the Holy Spirit, has been fully redeemed and adopted into the family of God. He can never be un-adopted, nor will he ever desire to depart from his most Holy Faith - for it is not in him to ever to do so, having been forgiven from the weight of sin having no salvation in any other, than Jesus, the Son of God. Sure, there are also as many Scriptures that purportedly show that a believer can lose his salvation, so the matter comes down to: if a 'believer' can decide to shun Christ and His Salvation, he probably came to Christ under his own desire, without the drawing in of the Holy Spirit and the resulting conviction of sin. Anyone who comes to Jesus without a deep sense of being a filthy despicable sinner deserving of nothing but hell and not fleeing to the Cross for forgiveness, cleansing & redemption, has just been fooling himself and very likely attending Church and reading the Bible for reasons other than a deep love, devotion and commitment to living and serving His Lord. That being said, I submit the following few Scriptures as requested (with notes):
John 3:16: God's Promise to save all who come to Him, assuring them of everlasting life.
John 5:24: The one believing in Jesus has everlasting life, without any condemnation or hell.
John 6:37: God makes no mistakes about whom He gives to His Son, and Jesus promises to never let them go.
John 10:27-29: Christ's sheep always hear His Voice and follow Him. Nothing nor anyone can separate the sheep from the Shepherd. If they stray, the Shepherd will draw them back into the fold, for that is the job of the Shepherd.
Romans 8:38,39: if all these things cannot separate us from God's Love in & through His Son, then what is our strength or ability (or even any inclination) to do the job ourselves? To Page 2.
"Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?"
The profound mystery is that all men are born once into this world but not all are born again by the Spirit of God.
Jesus said to the Pharisees what is also found in Isaiah 6:10 and numerous other scriptures namely:
Make the heart of this people dull, and their ears heavy, and blind their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed."
Now what we do interpret with our five senses our minds can accept with sound impartial reasoning. Hebrews 11:1 says Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. In John 10:38 Jesus responds to the Pharisees thusly:
But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
This rationale apparently wasn't sufficient for those who would accuse Christ of blasphemy since only God could forgive sins; and this was the unforgiveable sin as the power Christ wielded such as healing the blind no man had been able to do even with God's power in the Old Testament. This is tantamount to Satan himself for he is going to seek worship of the whole world through his Antichrist beast and that has always been his ultimate goal. The enemy of our souls probably gets a perverse pleasure in damning other souls (although his oaths and bondage aren't sufficent to trap anyone God doesn't allow or is predestined for salvation). Since he's going to be suffering and only thinking of his own misery in judgment to come his real joy is seeing further rebellion against God and establishing his own kingdom with his powers and principalities working under him.
We might compare a tare; for instance to an AI of someone. Let me point out in the verse you shall know them by their fruits ( Matthew 7:16-20) means we should exhort one another. In general someone uninterested in challenges or suggestions for growth isn't producing fruit; and vice versa.
Again thanks to Bible Hub; as their explanations apparently were tagged on to the verses and it summarizes exactly what I intended here. This should be "food for thought" as we as believers are Born Again and therefore have escaped the prison as it were of the summation of our existence being what we can perceive with our five senses and our interactions with it. Death of course or the Rapture is a merciful thing as someone recently brought up elsewhere if the Tree of Life were reached with Adam then he and Eve would have been alive in the sinful state forever.
Our transformation means that our real life is with those seated in heavenly places ( Eph. 2:6). Those who are in the faith but immature need a wake up call; hopefully before they pass away from this life that investing too much in this world isn't worth it for the wrong reasons. This is admittedly difficult; impossible of course in our own strength which we should be aware of by now if we profess to believe or we should test our faith to see if it is real. Those things that give us fullness of life ( John 10:10) surely are still present; albeit strained in this hour. Those simple things we can enjoy in the company of the saints and our families is enough if we have food and clothes on our back; the scriptures don't mention having a home to live in. That is a sobering thought; not that it is wrong but of course if we find ourselves as some here homeless we can still rejoice (and hopefully others will help when they can who are in the faith).
What the minds of unregenerate men come to who are blinded by the god of this world ( 2 Cor. 4:4) is truly alarming. A UFO landing certainly would be seen by men whose dwelling is on the earth as something fitting to the realm of the world and will be a hypnotic mesmerizing performance that likely would suck many in IF that is indeed what Satan uses. I also have postulated the opposite that WE are the aliens; New Agers believe we go to be reprogrammed
Another aspect of the eternal purpose of God is that the Father, in love, gave to Jesus a people who Jesus' redeems and reconciles to the Godhead.
In truth God, by the will and decree of the Father, is pursuing with omnipotent delight a worldwide purpose of gathering a people for his name, which is Jesus, from every tribe and language and nation ( Revelation 5:9; 7:9). He has an inexhaustible enthusiasm for the fame of his Son among the nations.
1Peter 2:9-10
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
The ones who are given to the Son are the believers since they will come to Christ ( John 6:37), that Jesus will lose none of them ( John 6:39), will not be snatched out of Christ's hand ( John 10:29), will have eternal life ( John 17:2), and will be with Christ ( John 17:24). Therefore, we must conclude that the ones given to the Son are the Christians, the elect. They are the ones chosen for salvation ( 2 Thess. 2:13) and it is those whom Jesus came to redeem. Furthermore, since Jesus cannot fail to do the will of the Father, those who are given to the Son by the Father cannot be lost. Otherwise, Jesus will have failed to do the will of the Father.
The Father sent His Son, the Word, into the world in human flesh, to save, redeem (as a kinsman redeemer), and glorify a people chosen from humanity to the praise of the glory and grace of God in Christ. The Father calls Jesus His Beloved Son audibly in several places in the gospels. The Father, in love, decreed that all that would be done to accomplish His eternal purpose would be accomplished by the son, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit within time and history, even into eternity.
Chris has given you a good reply. However, if we examine the saying, "once saved, always saved," it can be true or false; we can use Scripture to support or refute it. So where does that leave us?
In John 3:16, it says that if we believe in Jesus, we will be saved. Jesus promises never to fail. Salvation is based on the grace of God, through faith, not by our efforts, Ephesians 2:8-9. Our salvation depends on the righteousness of Christ and God's mercy, Titus 3:5.
We have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, Romans 3:23-24. We are justified not by works of the law but by faith, Galatians 2:16. We are called not because of our works but because of God's purpose and grace given to us through Jesus, 2 Timothy 1:9.
Our salvation is founded on our faith in Jesus Christ. In John 10:27-29, we are His sheep, hear His voice, follow Him, and are granted eternal life, which no one can take from His hand. Our salvation is secure because it relies on Jesus' work. As Hebrews 10:23 states, we are to hold fast to our faith without wavering because He is faithful.
Conversely, there is the risk of apostasy or falling away. Luke 8:4-15 illustrates this. In verse 13, it describes someone who received the word with joy and believed for a while but fell away when tempted. This person was a believer who later turned away; individuals can walk away on their own.
We must live by faith and be led by the Spirit. Paul says in Colossians 1:23, "If ye continue in the faith." We also see in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 about the great falling away when the beast rises, along with many other verses too numerous to list that emphasize we must endure to the end, like Revelation 2:10, also we are told to hold fast. If we remain strong in our faith, nothing can take our salvation away.
I understand that some say those who fall away were never truly saved, but I do not see that supported by Scripture, and it may be false hope for one who is weak.
Song of Solomon 8:6 Set me as a seal upon thine heart, as a seal upon thine arm: for love is strong as death; jealousy is cruel as the grave: the coals thereof are coals of fire, which hath a most vehement flame.
This poetic passage defines; more or less human love and it's capacity to maintain a grip that overwhelmes the soul. We know that our God is a jealous God; therefore He is committed to sealing us until the day of redemption ( Eph. 4:30). Jesus went to the cross; and purchased us with His precious blood ( 1 Peter 1:19). This process; of course keeps us from the depths of hell but also holds us fast in cords of love ( Hosea 11:4).
His own hear His voice ( John 10:27). It is a very simple methodology for determining who are His children and who are not. Anyone that tells you we are all His children clearly hasn't read 1 John. Those passages show that our actions demonstrate our motives and loving our brothers and sisters in the Lord is a major factor. A more basic thing is this; unregenerate man hates God; while the love of Christ is demonstrated in our souls and we can't help the fact or contain the truth of His presence if the Spirit dwells within. There are seasons of rebellion and other things that cause sin and grieve the Spirit but if He isn't living in us then all we can do is regret the consequences of our sin; we can't truly love God. This explains men replacing all sorts of things for the love of God; idols; sensuality; materialism; and perhaps most dangerous humanism. This concept of all man being basically good is the result of the evil fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. We deem unfair God's wrath and judgment yet know that we are guilty and stand condemned before a Holy and righteous judge and king.
There's a lot to unpack here. Basically though sanctification is present with all true believers; the painful process of weeding out all that remains of our old self.
"Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also."
Leviticus 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
Matthew 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Some concluding thoughts on persecution during Christ's earthly reign
Remember what I told you: 'A servant is not greater than his master.'[a] If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. ( John 15:20)
Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. ( 2 Timothy 3:12).
Let us summarize several types of persecution:
1. Verbal: Accusing Christ of working with the power of Beelzebub ( Matthew 12:24)
Accusing Christ of illegitimate birth ( John 8:41)
Accusing Christ of blasphemy ( John 10:33 when they attempted to stone Him for claiming to be God
Accusing Christ of being a glutton and alcoholic (implied with response in Matthew 11:18-19) when He ate with
"sinners"
2. Physical Numerous attempts to stone Jesus; throw Him off a cliff; etc.
3. His trial
Twisting prophetic statement of destroying the Temple and rebuilding in 3 days ( Matt. 27:39-40 quoting statement made way back in John 2:19
Mocking Him with regal garments; beating Him with a rod; smashing a crown of thorns on His head; beating with a whip of metal and glass shards; spitting at Him; forcing Him to carry the cross until collapse; and the crucifixion which also involved the Jews urging Him to be crucified and releasing a murdurer; mocking Him again to "get off of the cross"; jeering from those crucified alongside Him; and many other things.
I am abbreviating this study as one needs only to read the Gospels to get a sense of the intensity of the trials which Christ endured for the sake of the elect and His disciples and to do the Father's will; first and foremost. Persecution and death for the Apostles and many in the early church is good reading also to see how true revival often is birthed.
The persecution of Christ: The Pharisees and many sides of evil.
I am not sure of anyone that has studied this but it doesn't take long to realize just how sickening it truly was in regard to the Pharisees. Jesus no doubt had righteous indignation; and eventually upbraided them severely starting with the initial overturning of the moneychangers table and the later one along with an entire chapter in Mattew where He upbraided them for their various forms of hypocrisy no less than SEVEN times. That; no doubt didn't help matters with their persecution; but He knew His time was coming for the cross and that until that time they couldn't do anything about their seething wrath in order to destroy Him.
Of course; if we step back we realize that it shouldn't have been this way. The Pharisees should have been the first ones to recognize and embrace Jesus as the Messiah and it took some real effort to have such unbelief. What was the law Jesus told men to follow; basically do what they say but do not follow their example ( Matthew 23:3). This was late in the game during His final days on earth before Calvary; but the law was started by God and could not be altered; just overtaken by the covenant of grace established to bring in all men; Jews then Gentiles into the fold of God (see John 10:16). But Christ came for the lost; not for self righteous who "needed no physician" ( Mark 2:17). And that is where we will start at the onset of His ministry.
They started their trash talking (I can't define it as anything else) earlier in verse 6. But some of the scribes were sitting there and thinking in their hearts, 7"Why does this man speak like this? He is blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?"
After the healing of the paralytic and some time passed the next insult was this When the scribes who were Pharisees saw Jesus eating with these people, they asked His disciples, "Why does He eat with tax collectors and sinners?" Thus Jesus responded with verse 17
John 10:30 I and my Father are one. Should we not consider other verses, John 17:11, John 17:20-23, John 14:28. These verses, Numbers 23:19, John 20:17, 2 Corinthians 11:31, Ephesians 1:3, Ephesians 4:4-6, and 1 Peter 1:3. Then, in Revelation 21:22-23 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. 23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
God wanted to be with His people, He first instructed Moses to build a tabernacle, which was symbolic of Jesus. Jesus was born without sin, not by man but of the seed of a woman whose Father was God. God could dwell in Him. Like the tabernacle, Jesus was holy, not defiled. Jesus became the light of the world, the Shekinah Glory manifested in Him and God again dwelt with man in the flesh of Jesus, to me that is John 1:14.
I do thank you for your reply, and I hope and pray I do not offend anyone who reads what I post; our discussions should only inspire us to study, not to win or demean, if so, we all lose.
I will stop here; I do not want to get ahead of Jesse's work in Revelation. You are always welcome to reply to me GiGi.
I believe in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit: they are One. Amen. Jesus has the same thoughts and actions at the very same moment that God Almighty thinks and acts. Jesus does not have to wait for instruction to do the "works" of God. He possesses the "Authority" to do the works of the God Almighty without asking permission.
John 10:30___
"I and my father are One."" John10:17__17Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
God & His Son
Part 2__
. 18No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again.This commandment have I received of my Father."
God has not revealed to mankind how that works even though they have been trying to explain it for about 2,000 years. Many early Jews suffered or were killed for trying to convince their brethren of this Divine mystery. Peter, James and stephen were three saints that were martyred. John was on the Isle called Patmos.
Judas also walked with him and was not ashamed to be called an apostle, even though he betrayed
Him.
God & His Son
Part 3
I Corinthians 2:6,7,8__Paul said,
. 6Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: 7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 8Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
I Corinthians 2:13__
"Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual."
Thanks for responding!
You said "Stay close to Jesus and live'.
In Hebrews 13 vs 5 the Lord said "I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee"
Thank God the staying power is in the hands of Jesus who also says in John 10:27-28 "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Jesus is that Great Shepherd that leaves the ninety nine sheep and goes after the one lost in the wilderness illustrating God's immense love and pursuit of every individual, even when many are already safe; He prioritizes the lost one,
Jesus is that solid rock foundation!
If we built on him we will never stray!
If one final destiny is hell he built on sand and was never of the sheep fold!
He's one of those mentioned in Matthew 7 where Jesus says "I never knew you"
These postings of mine doesn't go out to any certain denomination, it goes out to the individual!
We must examine ourselves!
Salvation isn't defined or authenticated by what we know or even what we are doing on the outside!
It's what's cleaned on the inside!
It's a new birth!
It's not whether you "accepted Christ"
It's did you "RECEIVE" Christ!
If you have received Christ, "it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Philippians 2:13.
God bless.
"Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?"
John 10:30
"I and my Father are one."
Blessings
The latest debacle in regard to setting a Rapture date (the primary one this past Rosh Hashanah Sept 23) and subsequent failed predictions has no doubt caused some to use this as an excuse to shipwreck the faith. It saddens me to see how at least one person I highly respected get caught up in this and endless number patterns which is basically an occult way to cause people to make predictions. There are some who used to be focused on reaching the lost and fulfilling the Great Commission who have become sidetracked. One great problem with many so called movements of God today is the obsession on "revival" which ignores the errors of false revivals of the past and also how inevitably Satan will counterfeit true movements of God at some point.
Again being unaware of these things is not being discerning scripturally. Another part of the problem is our attempt to convince God to bring blessings whether or not we are obedient to His Word. This was discussed briefly at the Sunday service I attended in regard to Jabez in scripture and a book that discussed the subject popular around 2001. Those who truly are going to be blessed don't spend much time if any obsessing on that subject which perhaps the verse illustrates; God granted something when it wasn't embellished with lengthy words and obsessing on it. Basically those He will bless He blesses and curse He curses and that is directly related to a life of obedience or lack thereof and true love of the Lord. There is NO indication in scripture of quantity being more important than the quality of a believer; the Great Commission does say to pray for more workers for the harvest but those who are recipients in the harvest are predetermined. John 10:1 warns us about snyone attempting to come into the pen any other way to the sheepfold. There is only one method to salvation and that involves knowing the voice of the Shephard; His sheep know His voice.
It is however true, that if a believer should succumb to the enemy's temptations and does not take remedial action as the Holy Spirit directs, then there will be loss. Not a loss of the Holy Spirit or salvation, but the loss of sweet communion, maybe of some degree of estrangement if sin is allowed to persist, and of the Spirit's intervention by way of warning or discipline. Or the Spirit might even allow that erring soul to taste the depravity of his/her sin, so that they may come to their senses, repent, and be restored; the story of the prodigal son is a good example of a poor choice made and yet, of a waiting loving father who is ready to forgive, receive, and restore ( Luke 15:11-32).
Just a few verses to consider (and there are many more): John 10:26-29; Romans 8:33-39; Ephesians 1:13,14; Ephesians 2:8-10; Philippians 1:6; 1 Peter 1:3-5; Jude 1:24,25.
This is why we often read of the apostles encouraging believers to be on guard against the enemy of our souls, of sin creeping into the life, and not being involved in anything that even smells of sin; Why? Not for salvation's loss, but for suffering under God's Hand of discipline and the pain of estrangement from God.
Why should we entertain anything that breaks our special love relationship with our God & Savior & bring on ourselves sorrow upon sorrow? The Holy Spirit will always alert us when we err and will always bring us back, so salvation cannot be lost. But for those who feel no sorrow or estrangement when they stray, they do not have the Holy Spirit within them and are not saved. But while they have breath, there remains hope if they draw near to God, He will draw near to them. GBU.
There's those in the OT that passed on that is not considered part of the new covenant and is not part of Christ Church.
They were saved by faith but under the old covenant and rituals that pointed to their Messiah's finish work on the cross freeing them from the bondage that held them captive.
The difference between Israel and the rest of the world was that they were heirs of the land, Davidic and Kingdom promises to Abraham.
(Not to be mistaken for the recipient of the promises shown mentioned in Galatians 3:29 referring to Christ.)
However we all should know there's no entering into the presence of God without the door. John 10:9. That goes for all ages.
These specific promises is after the Gathering of the Gentiles into the body of Christ. "The Church" as shown in Acts 15:14-16
"Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
"AFTER THIS" I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
The old testament prophets prophesied about the gather of Israel, (Post Church) and the Davidic Kingdom.
References-
Romans 11:25-26.
Romans 9:25-26 echoing Hosea 2:23.
Isaiah 40:9
Joel 2:3-32.
Isaiah 11:11-12.
The Lord calls Zion(Israel) his people several times in these verses.
..2:18 Then will the LORD be jealous for his land, and pity HIS PEOPLE.
In Isaiah 11:11 the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people.
This is not the Church but a people and elect of God for the purpose of God!
Blessings Brother!
"I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine."
John 10:4
"And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice."
John 10:5
"And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers."
John 10:26
"But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you."
Blessing's
Isaiah 49:16 is one verse where it speaks of being engraved on the palm of God's hand
John 10:28 is the other where Jesus says that He gives us eternal life and no one can snatch us out of His hand.
I love these verses that give us assurance of God's faithful keeping of us in this life and the life to come.
Luke 13:23
"Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,"
Luke 13:24
"Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able."
Revelation 22:14
"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."
John 10:14
"I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine."
Blessings
Thanks for your reply. I understand many see this as comfort, similar to what you hear at a funeral when the preacher says Bob is with Jesus in heaven. Am I going to tell that loved one No, he is not? NO, but what is the actual truth?
Ecclesiastes 9:5, if we die, we know nothing. Psalms 115:17 I believe that if our spirit were alive in heaven, we would be praising the LORD. Our only hope of eternal life is in Jesus; this comes when we are resurrected, not before, 1 Corinthians 15:52-54.
Not to drag this out, I will say, if we all have an immortal spirit, there is no death and no true gift of eternal life because we already possess it. John 3:15, John 10:28, Romans 2:7, Romans 6:23, 1 John 2:25. This is our promise. The others receive death; they will perish, John 3:16, 2 Thessalonians 2:10, 2 Peter 2:12. The word perish is to destroy fully, permanent, absolute destruction. Revelation 21:8 their part, their punishment, and death will fit their sins, not burn for eternity.
Death is not a separation, as Greek philosophy puts it, which has influenced today's understanding.
Thanks again, brother,
God bless,
RLW
you commented about hearing/listening. I'm not sure if I understood your post correctly, but it's important to approach this concept carefully, because it is very common in Christian teachings, but it is not found as a specific verse in the Bible.
I am studying and have faith in only one that is based on the Bible and its instructions. In other words, there is no single verse that explicitly lists these three voices. Rather, it is a theological synthesis or a principle derived from various passages that, together, describe the sources of influence and thought in our lives.
Let's break down this concept and look at the verses that foundation each part:
1. The Voice of God (The Holy Spirit)
The Bible often describes God speaking to His people, guiding them, and granting discernment.
John 10:27: "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me." This is a key verse that supports the idea that believers can discern Jesus' voice.
1 Kings 19:11-13: God did not speak to Elijah in the powerful wind, the earthquake, or the fire, but in a "gentle whisper." This illustrates that God's voice is often discerned in quietness and intimacy.
John 14:26: "But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you." The Holy Spirit is presented as the internal voice that guides and teaches.
If your "battle" is with believing that Jesus is God, may I suggest the following scriptures for your consideration:
Genesis 1:1 along with John 1:1-3, Revelation 19:13, Colossians 1:15-17, Matthew 1:23, John 10:30, John 14:9, Mark 2:5-7, John 8:58, John 20:28, Isaiah 9:6, Philippians 2:5-7, Colossians 2:9, 1 Timothy 3:16, Hebrews 1:8, 2 Peter 1:1, Revelation 1:8, John 5:18, 1 John 5:20, Luke 24:52, John 9:38, Acts 10:25-26, Titus 2:13, Hebrews 1:3, Revelation 22:13, Micah 5:2, John 17:5, John 1:14. There are more, but these should suffice.
You mention that "Christians say that there is no separation between Christ and God," and that the bible shows otherwise. Jesus said I and my Father are one, and He also said that if you have seen Me, you have seen the Father. This may not mean anything to you, but in the book of Hebrews, Jesus is described as the APOUGASMA (the out beam) of God's glory, God projecting Himself through the time/space factor in the person of Christ. Jesus Christ, being God, was never separated from the source. This is why Jesus can say if you have seen Me, you have seen the Father.
The best example I can give would be taking a flashlight in a dark room and shining it on a wall. The flashlight is the source, and the light is projected on the wall from the source. There is no separation unless the flashlight is turned off. Now, imagine the flashlight being God, and the light shining on the wall is Jesus, again, no separation. Jesus is said to be the true light which came down from heaven, the APOUGASMA of God.
If you are sincerely struggling with the deity of Jesus Christ (Him being God), I hope these scriptures I've provided might help. Also, if you would like, I can share my personal understanding on Matthew 26:39 and Luke 22:42 and why Christ would ask this.
If I may ask, are you a Christian? If so, who do you say Jesus is?
We will pray that injustice departs from you NOW in Jesus Christ's Holy Name, the Name above all other Names, and that "fox" is caught and cast into the deepest darkness and righteousness shall flow forward in your life from now on forth in Jesus Christ's Name, And we pray to Lord Jesus that the people that "A" meets over the weekend, that all of them look with favor on her cause. So that she wins. And she and many more will honor Your Name forever Jesus Christ, You are King, Amen.
Love u in Jesus, John 10:1-15 Good Luck
I feel duty bound to mention scripture; ALL scripture. In this case no doubt heated discussions could arise and when I say something that goes against tradition (such as all believers being raptured) I have to hold to Scripture first. Irregardless of the complexities here; of course there are many "professors" rather than Holy Spirit possessors out there which is dangerous at any time for our spiritual well being even if His coming is a ways off.
In general; sin is a reproach to any people ( Proverbs 14:34); although this verse is talking about a nation rather than individuals.
Whether by Rapture or death indeed we all have an appointment with God and trivializing sin isn't helpful for anyone. Sin not only progresses until death but metastasizes from an occasional occurrence to a habit to a lifestyle. In sanctification there is no doubt in my mind that God uses our failures to chastise us; so narcissism as an attitude dismissing sin as harmless error; etc is not beneficial. As true saints of God we should be the first ones to be transparent in this regard. Self justification is also a later stage of sin where we get to the point where we don't care what anyone thinks; hence we are no longer open to correction.
John 10:27-28 says 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. We see here the knowing between both parties and recognition of His voice. The Lord aggressively goes after His sheep but His sheep recognize His voice; they may be running away like Jonah or have other reactions that aren't beneficial but they cannot deny His presence and guidance. Those who are NOT His sheep usually are left alone; hence as Solomon states in Ecclesiastes 8:1
11 Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.
Romans 13:9 "For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."
John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments."
John 10:30 "I and my Father are one."
Blessings
John 3:16: God's Promise to save all who come to Him, assuring them of everlasting life.
John 5:24: The one believing in Jesus has everlasting life, without any condemnation or hell.
John 6:37: God makes no mistakes about whom He gives to His Son, and Jesus promises to never let them go.
John 10:27-29: Christ's sheep always hear His Voice and follow Him. Nothing nor anyone can separate the sheep from the Shepherd. If they stray, the Shepherd will draw them back into the fold, for that is the job of the Shepherd.
Romans 8:38,39: if all these things cannot separate us from God's Love in & through His Son, then what is our strength or ability (or even any inclination) to do the job ourselves? To Page 2.
"Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?"
John 10:30
"I and my Father are one."
Blessings
The profound mystery is that all men are born once into this world but not all are born again by the Spirit of God.
Jesus said to the Pharisees what is also found in Isaiah 6:10 and numerous other scriptures namely:
Make the heart of this people dull, and their ears heavy, and blind their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed."
Now what we do interpret with our five senses our minds can accept with sound impartial reasoning. Hebrews 11:1 says Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. In John 10:38 Jesus responds to the Pharisees thusly:
But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
This rationale apparently wasn't sufficient for those who would accuse Christ of blasphemy since only God could forgive sins; and this was the unforgiveable sin as the power Christ wielded such as healing the blind no man had been able to do even with God's power in the Old Testament. This is tantamount to Satan himself for he is going to seek worship of the whole world through his Antichrist beast and that has always been his ultimate goal. The enemy of our souls probably gets a perverse pleasure in damning other souls (although his oaths and bondage aren't sufficent to trap anyone God doesn't allow or is predestined for salvation). Since he's going to be suffering and only thinking of his own misery in judgment to come his real joy is seeing further rebellion against God and establishing his own kingdom with his powers and principalities working under him.
We might compare a tare; for instance to an AI of someone. Let me point out in the verse you shall know them by their fruits ( Matthew 7:16-20) means we should exhort one another. In general someone uninterested in challenges or suggestions for growth isn't producing fruit; and vice versa.
John 10:7 "Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep."
John 10:27 "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:"
Isaiah 40:8 "The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever."
Blessings
Our transformation means that our real life is with those seated in heavenly places ( Eph. 2:6). Those who are in the faith but immature need a wake up call; hopefully before they pass away from this life that investing too much in this world isn't worth it for the wrong reasons. This is admittedly difficult; impossible of course in our own strength which we should be aware of by now if we profess to believe or we should test our faith to see if it is real. Those things that give us fullness of life ( John 10:10) surely are still present; albeit strained in this hour. Those simple things we can enjoy in the company of the saints and our families is enough if we have food and clothes on our back; the scriptures don't mention having a home to live in. That is a sobering thought; not that it is wrong but of course if we find ourselves as some here homeless we can still rejoice (and hopefully others will help when they can who are in the faith).
What the minds of unregenerate men come to who are blinded by the god of this world ( 2 Cor. 4:4) is truly alarming. A UFO landing certainly would be seen by men whose dwelling is on the earth as something fitting to the realm of the world and will be a hypnotic mesmerizing performance that likely would suck many in IF that is indeed what Satan uses. I also have postulated the opposite that WE are the aliens; New Agers believe we go to be reprogrammed
PT. 4
Another aspect of the eternal purpose of God is that the Father, in love, gave to Jesus a people who Jesus' redeems and reconciles to the Godhead.
In truth God, by the will and decree of the Father, is pursuing with omnipotent delight a worldwide purpose of gathering a people for his name, which is Jesus, from every tribe and language and nation ( Revelation 5:9; 7:9). He has an inexhaustible enthusiasm for the fame of his Son among the nations.
1Peter 2:9-10
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
The ones who are given to the Son are the believers since they will come to Christ ( John 6:37), that Jesus will lose none of them ( John 6:39), will not be snatched out of Christ's hand ( John 10:29), will have eternal life ( John 17:2), and will be with Christ ( John 17:24). Therefore, we must conclude that the ones given to the Son are the Christians, the elect. They are the ones chosen for salvation ( 2 Thess. 2:13) and it is those whom Jesus came to redeem. Furthermore, since Jesus cannot fail to do the will of the Father, those who are given to the Son by the Father cannot be lost. Otherwise, Jesus will have failed to do the will of the Father.
The Father sent His Son, the Word, into the world in human flesh, to save, redeem (as a kinsman redeemer), and glorify a people chosen from humanity to the praise of the glory and grace of God in Christ. The Father calls Jesus His Beloved Son audibly in several places in the gospels. The Father, in love, decreed that all that would be done to accomplish His eternal purpose would be accomplished by the son, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit within time and history, even into eternity.
See Pt. 5
Chris has given you a good reply. However, if we examine the saying, "once saved, always saved," it can be true or false; we can use Scripture to support or refute it. So where does that leave us?
In John 3:16, it says that if we believe in Jesus, we will be saved. Jesus promises never to fail. Salvation is based on the grace of God, through faith, not by our efforts, Ephesians 2:8-9. Our salvation depends on the righteousness of Christ and God's mercy, Titus 3:5.
We have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, Romans 3:23-24. We are justified not by works of the law but by faith, Galatians 2:16. We are called not because of our works but because of God's purpose and grace given to us through Jesus, 2 Timothy 1:9.
Our salvation is founded on our faith in Jesus Christ. In John 10:27-29, we are His sheep, hear His voice, follow Him, and are granted eternal life, which no one can take from His hand. Our salvation is secure because it relies on Jesus' work. As Hebrews 10:23 states, we are to hold fast to our faith without wavering because He is faithful.
Conversely, there is the risk of apostasy or falling away. Luke 8:4-15 illustrates this. In verse 13, it describes someone who received the word with joy and believed for a while but fell away when tempted. This person was a believer who later turned away; individuals can walk away on their own.
We must live by faith and be led by the Spirit. Paul says in Colossians 1:23, "If ye continue in the faith." We also see in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 about the great falling away when the beast rises, along with many other verses too numerous to list that emphasize we must endure to the end, like Revelation 2:10, also we are told to hold fast. If we remain strong in our faith, nothing can take our salvation away.
I understand that some say those who fall away were never truly saved, but I do not see that supported by Scripture, and it may be false hope for one who is weak.
God bless,
RLW
Chastening vs. wrath
Song of Solomon 8:6 Set me as a seal upon thine heart, as a seal upon thine arm: for love is strong as death; jealousy is cruel as the grave: the coals thereof are coals of fire, which hath a most vehement flame.
This poetic passage defines; more or less human love and it's capacity to maintain a grip that overwhelmes the soul. We know that our God is a jealous God; therefore He is committed to sealing us until the day of redemption ( Eph. 4:30). Jesus went to the cross; and purchased us with His precious blood ( 1 Peter 1:19). This process; of course keeps us from the depths of hell but also holds us fast in cords of love ( Hosea 11:4).
His own hear His voice ( John 10:27). It is a very simple methodology for determining who are His children and who are not. Anyone that tells you we are all His children clearly hasn't read 1 John. Those passages show that our actions demonstrate our motives and loving our brothers and sisters in the Lord is a major factor. A more basic thing is this; unregenerate man hates God; while the love of Christ is demonstrated in our souls and we can't help the fact or contain the truth of His presence if the Spirit dwells within. There are seasons of rebellion and other things that cause sin and grieve the Spirit but if He isn't living in us then all we can do is regret the consequences of our sin; we can't truly love God. This explains men replacing all sorts of things for the love of God; idols; sensuality; materialism; and perhaps most dangerous humanism. This concept of all man being basically good is the result of the evil fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. We deem unfair God's wrath and judgment yet know that we are guilty and stand condemned before a Holy and righteous judge and king.
There's a lot to unpack here. Basically though sanctification is present with all true believers; the painful process of weeding out all that remains of our old self.
"I and my Father are one."
John 12:45
"And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me."
John 8:19
"Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also."
Blessings
Matthew 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
John 10:30
"I and my Father are one."
Blessings
Remember what I told you: 'A servant is not greater than his master.'[a] If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. ( John 15:20)
Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. ( 2 Timothy 3:12).
Let us summarize several types of persecution:
1. Verbal: Accusing Christ of working with the power of Beelzebub ( Matthew 12:24)
Accusing Christ of illegitimate birth ( John 8:41)
Accusing Christ of blasphemy ( John 10:33 when they attempted to stone Him for claiming to be God
Accusing Christ of being a glutton and alcoholic (implied with response in Matthew 11:18-19) when He ate with
"sinners"
2. Physical Numerous attempts to stone Jesus; throw Him off a cliff; etc.
3. His trial
Twisting prophetic statement of destroying the Temple and rebuilding in 3 days ( Matt. 27:39-40 quoting statement made way back in John 2:19
Mocking Him with regal garments; beating Him with a rod; smashing a crown of thorns on His head; beating with a whip of metal and glass shards; spitting at Him; forcing Him to carry the cross until collapse; and the crucifixion which also involved the Jews urging Him to be crucified and releasing a murdurer; mocking Him again to "get off of the cross"; jeering from those crucified alongside Him; and many other things.
I am abbreviating this study as one needs only to read the Gospels to get a sense of the intensity of the trials which Christ endured for the sake of the elect and His disciples and to do the Father's will; first and foremost. Persecution and death for the Apostles and many in the early church is good reading also to see how true revival often is birthed.
Agape.
I am not sure of anyone that has studied this but it doesn't take long to realize just how sickening it truly was in regard to the Pharisees. Jesus no doubt had righteous indignation; and eventually upbraided them severely starting with the initial overturning of the moneychangers table and the later one along with an entire chapter in Mattew where He upbraided them for their various forms of hypocrisy no less than SEVEN times. That; no doubt didn't help matters with their persecution; but He knew His time was coming for the cross and that until that time they couldn't do anything about their seething wrath in order to destroy Him.
Of course; if we step back we realize that it shouldn't have been this way. The Pharisees should have been the first ones to recognize and embrace Jesus as the Messiah and it took some real effort to have such unbelief. What was the law Jesus told men to follow; basically do what they say but do not follow their example ( Matthew 23:3). This was late in the game during His final days on earth before Calvary; but the law was started by God and could not be altered; just overtaken by the covenant of grace established to bring in all men; Jews then Gentiles into the fold of God (see John 10:16). But Christ came for the lost; not for self righteous who "needed no physician" ( Mark 2:17). And that is where we will start at the onset of His ministry.
They started their trash talking (I can't define it as anything else) earlier in verse 6. But some of the scribes were sitting there and thinking in their hearts, 7"Why does this man speak like this? He is blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?"
After the healing of the paralytic and some time passed the next insult was this When the scribes who were Pharisees saw Jesus eating with these people, they asked His disciples, "Why does He eat with tax collectors and sinners?" Thus Jesus responded with verse 17
"I and my Father are one."
John 14:15
"If ye love me, keep my commandments."
Blessings
John 10:30 I and my Father are one. Should we not consider other verses, John 17:11, John 17:20-23, John 14:28. These verses, Numbers 23:19, John 20:17, 2 Corinthians 11:31, Ephesians 1:3, Ephesians 4:4-6, and 1 Peter 1:3. Then, in Revelation 21:22-23 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. 23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
God wanted to be with His people, He first instructed Moses to build a tabernacle, which was symbolic of Jesus. Jesus was born without sin, not by man but of the seed of a woman whose Father was God. God could dwell in Him. Like the tabernacle, Jesus was holy, not defiled. Jesus became the light of the world, the Shekinah Glory manifested in Him and God again dwelt with man in the flesh of Jesus, to me that is John 1:14.
I do thank you for your reply, and I hope and pray I do not offend anyone who reads what I post; our discussions should only inspire us to study, not to win or demean, if so, we all lose.
I will stop here; I do not want to get ahead of Jesse's work in Revelation. You are always welcome to reply to me GiGi.
God bless,
RLW
God & His Son
Part 1__
6/11/25___4:30am Thought:
In Jesus' own words, the scripture
below testify of His Authority.
I believe in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit: they are One. Amen. Jesus has the same thoughts and actions at the very same moment that God Almighty thinks and acts. Jesus does not have to wait for instruction to do the "works" of God. He possesses the "Authority" to do the works of the God Almighty without asking permission.
John 10:30___
"I and my father are One."" John10:17__17Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
God & His Son
Part 2__
. 18No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again.This commandment have I received of my Father."
God has not revealed to mankind how that works even though they have been trying to explain it for about 2,000 years. Many early Jews suffered or were killed for trying to convince their brethren of this Divine mystery. Peter, James and stephen were three saints that were martyred. John was on the Isle called Patmos.
Judas also walked with him and was not ashamed to be called an apostle, even though he betrayed
Him.
God & His Son
Part 3
I Corinthians 2:6,7,8__Paul said,
. 6Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: 7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 8Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
I Corinthians 2:13__
"Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual."
To God be the Glory, Amen!