Gerald, Richard, and Chris have given you good scripturally based answers.
I would just reiterate that, just as Jesus promised He would never leave or forsake those who are His, so to it is with the Father and the Spirit, because of the oneness of the Godhead in their unity, we cannot have one with out the others in us. So, the Spirit will never leave us nor forsake us either. Mt. 28:20; Heb. 15:5-6; Jn. 1416-18. Jesus does not leave us comfortless because the Holy Spirit is always in us. He is our guarantee, deposit, and surety of God's faithfulness to His commitment to save us to the uttermost. Eph. 1:14 He will bring us to completion in Christ through sanctification.
Not disputed yet here is the thing God did not leave those 2000,000 people alone . Thry had a miracle every day twice on Saturday . The fire and cloud to lead them. Their cloths did not wear out and so much more but they were not in the centre of Gods will but His let or permitted will .
Those 40 years God was faithful to,His Word but it fell to the next generation to DO His will .
It is interesting to note that thry did no work of God till they crossed Jordan . Elisha did no work of God till he crossed Jordan . Not even the Lord did any work till he was baptised in Jordan .
I day again .the church which is His body high by the grace of God our Father I am a part of has reduced the gospel to being but BORN again , getting out of Egypt .
We have been too long in the wilderness because the church has made its wandering and it's ( we must face it; unbelief) as the Christian norm..
Recycling the milk of the Word and rarely having the meat .
" Little children you know the Father and your sins are forgiven " Praise the Lord .
But are we not expected to grow in grace and in the knowledge of God ?
" Young men the Word of God dwelleth in you richly and you have overcome the wicked one" Now there is a message to be preached and taught !
But what if " Ye fathers you know Him who is from the beginning " 1
Much of what is called Christendom is either confused or compromising with the world concerning creation . How the. Can we come to know Him if we do not beluevecHis Word ?
And all those 'versions' despite their boast in their " better understanding" have despite it got Genesis 1;1 quite wrong .
Two men aiming for the moon but one a 1/4 degree off will by the time he's half way be miles out and will in the end miss it .
So it proves in Rev 3 they have saints sitting ON " His throne' rather than overcoming and sittingbIN His throne "
Did not the Lucifer want to do the same?The Lord is coming soon ,it's my conviction he has already left the building .
I did mean on His throne, not necessarily on Jesus, but since we are IN Him it is also correct to say we sit with Him or in Him or even on Him. Either way, we do not need to nit-pick, but be gracious.
The word " ON" is as far removed from the Word " IN" is as far as you can get . Yet thosecwhomboastbin thrur " better understanding" clearly don't understand English .
The only one who can sit ON the Lords throne is the Lord Himself . The absurd notion that I or any other can do so is absurd .
The only one who can sit ON the Fathers throne is the Father Himself . The notion that the Son can is theologically wrong on every level .
A man can be IN Christ as you pointed out and thus can be IN His throne therefore is possible .
But as I am not The Son ,I cannot be on His throne .
It is not nit picking . It is recognising blasphemy when you see it .
Jesus told John that those who overcome will sit on His throne; He called it MY throne as in it is His very throne and that He sits on the Father's throne with the Father. Rev. 3:21. I don't see what your point of argument is here. Please explain further.
If you hold that the KJV is anything then I suggest you read again what it says . ALL(?) other versions have out it " ON His throne . They are wrong to have done so . For reasons I have put in previous post .
There is the baptism of the Holy Spirit . The first time this happened was on the day of Pentecost . When the whole house was filled and so thry were all immersed in the Holy Spirit . Then they were filled with the Holy Spirit .
To be BORN again is to be baptised in the Holy Spurit and " sealed" . But even as a new born baby has life it still needs to be filled with the breath of life so to speak to live that life .
So likewise when we are born again we need to be ( continually) filled . " Be ye filled with the Holy Spirit "
A once filling dors not mean you often need to be refilled . The Apostles were filled on that day but after they had been arrested ,beaten and forbidden to preach in that name again they " went back to their own company " and related what had happened and once again they were all filled with the HolySpirit . So they could once again go out and preach with boldness .
If we are not born again people "do always resist the Holy Spirit" . But once you are born again you can grieve Him by a loose tongue or bad attitude or actions . And we can quench Him when He gives us prompts to do this or that good thing and we don't do it . I suppose also if we get very stubborn and dig our heels in we also quench the Spirit .
He can then leave us feeling bereft of His presence in truth He has stepped back or in the hinder part of our boat as it were . We are not being led by Him as directly as we should .
The eternal resting place of the Holy Spirit is the Word of God . When Jesus was baptised the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove tested upon Him .Consider Noah who sent out a dove .The first time it found no place if rest and returned . When he sent it out again it returned with an emblem of its resting place . In the OT the Spirit came upon people but did not rest upon them or rather in them for the Blood had not yet been shed . But after Calvary and the Blood of Christ had been accepted by the Father then was the Holy Spirit able to abide in us forever
The Lord promises to make His dwelling with us (both the Father and Son) in John 14:23. The sealing of the Spirit can be found in Ephesians as well as other places.
Given the above comment I cannot add much except to say that we need to test ourselves to see if we are in the faith. This involves an impartial life review as it were; or else the danger is that we have seen evidence of His grace around us but haven't recieved it ourselves. Godly sorrow leads to repentance; worldly sorrow ultimately doesn't do any eternal good for our soul and leads to death (even Judas Iscariot was sorry that what he called a "righteous man" was killed because of his complicity and involvement in the arrest).
The Spirit contends with the flesh; a true believer therefore can never be content living in sin; or a lifestyle therein.
Feelings therefore cannot be our barometer; although we cannot ignore true guilt. The enemy will accuse us when we sin and convince us the blood isn't sufficient for atonement; and also he will use others to put false guilt and such when we try to stick to scriptural convictions on things; as I am unfortunately dealing with at present.
Hi again June 316. As much as your question can generate various opinions, my belief is that if a Christian has truly been born again, having received the Holy Spirit to indwell, sustain & secure him/her, then it is impossible for that person to have God's Spirit abandon him/her for any reason.
It is however true, that if a believer should succumb to the enemy's temptations and does not take remedial action as the Holy Spirit directs, then there will be loss. Not a loss of the Holy Spirit or salvation, but the loss of sweet communion, maybe of some degree of estrangement if sin is allowed to persist, and of the Spirit's intervention by way of warning or discipline. Or the Spirit might even allow that erring soul to taste the depravity of his/her sin, so that they may come to their senses, repent, and be restored; the story of the prodigal son is a good example of a poor choice made and yet, of a waiting loving father who is ready to forgive, receive, and restore ( Luke 15:11-32).
Just a few verses to consider (and there are many more): John 10:26-29; Romans 8:33-39; Ephesians 1:13,14; Ephesians 2:8-10; Philippians 1:6; 1 Peter 1:3-5; Jude 1:24,25.
This is why we often read of the apostles encouraging believers to be on guard against the enemy of our souls, of sin creeping into the life, and not being involved in anything that even smells of sin; Why? Not for salvation's loss, but for suffering under God's Hand of discipline and the pain of estrangement from God.
Why should we entertain anything that breaks our special love relationship with our God & Savior & bring on ourselves sorrow upon sorrow? The Holy Spirit will always alert us when we err and will always bring us back, so salvation cannot be lost. But for those who feel no sorrow or estrangement when they stray, they do not have the Holy Spirit within them and are not saved. But while they have breath, there remains hope if they draw near to God, He will draw near to them. GBU.
Gerald, Richard, and Chris have given you good scripturally based answers.
I would just reiterate that, just as Jesus promised He would never leave or forsake those who are His, so to it is with the Father and the Spirit, because of the oneness of the Godhead in their unity, we cannot have one with out the others in us. So, the Spirit will never leave us nor forsake us either. Mt. 28:20; Heb. 15:5-6; Jn. 1416-18. Jesus does not leave us comfortless because the Holy Spirit is always in us. He is our guarantee, deposit, and surety of God's faithfulness to His commitment to save us to the uttermost. Eph. 1:14 He will bring us to completion in Christ through sanctification.
Those 40 years God was faithful to,His Word but it fell to the next generation to DO His will .
It is interesting to note that thry did no work of God till they crossed Jordan . Elisha did no work of God till he crossed Jordan . Not even the Lord did any work till he was baptised in Jordan .
I day again .the church which is His body high by the grace of God our Father I am a part of has reduced the gospel to being but BORN again , getting out of Egypt .
We have been too long in the wilderness because the church has made its wandering and it's ( we must face it; unbelief) as the Christian norm..
Recycling the milk of the Word and rarely having the meat .
" Little children you know the Father and your sins are forgiven " Praise the Lord .
But are we not expected to grow in grace and in the knowledge of God ?
" Young men the Word of God dwelleth in you richly and you have overcome the wicked one" Now there is a message to be preached and taught !
But what if " Ye fathers you know Him who is from the beginning " 1
Much of what is called Christendom is either confused or compromising with the world concerning creation . How the. Can we come to know Him if we do not beluevecHis Word ?
And all those 'versions' despite their boast in their " better understanding" have despite it got Genesis 1;1 quite wrong .
Two men aiming for the moon but one a 1/4 degree off will by the time he's half way be miles out and will in the end miss it .
So it proves in Rev 3 they have saints sitting ON " His throne' rather than overcoming and sittingbIN His throne "
Did not the Lucifer want to do the same?The Lord is coming soon ,it's my conviction he has already left the building .
I did mean on His throne, not necessarily on Jesus, but since we are IN Him it is also correct to say we sit with Him or in Him or even on Him. Either way, we do not need to nit-pick, but be gracious.
The only one who can sit ON the Lords throne is the Lord Himself . The absurd notion that I or any other can do so is absurd .
The only one who can sit ON the Fathers throne is the Father Himself . The notion that the Son can is theologically wrong on every level .
A man can be IN Christ as you pointed out and thus can be IN His throne therefore is possible .
But as I am not The Son ,I cannot be on His throne .
It is not nit picking . It is recognising blasphemy when you see it .
And a profound mistranslation of the scriptures .
Jesus told John that those who overcome will sit on His throne; He called it MY throne as in it is His very throne and that He sits on the Father's throne with the Father. Rev. 3:21. I don't see what your point of argument is here. Please explain further.
To be BORN again is to be baptised in the Holy Spurit and " sealed" . But even as a new born baby has life it still needs to be filled with the breath of life so to speak to live that life .
So likewise when we are born again we need to be ( continually) filled . " Be ye filled with the Holy Spirit "
A once filling dors not mean you often need to be refilled . The Apostles were filled on that day but after they had been arrested ,beaten and forbidden to preach in that name again they " went back to their own company " and related what had happened and once again they were all filled with the HolySpirit . So they could once again go out and preach with boldness .
If we are not born again people "do always resist the Holy Spirit" . But once you are born again you can grieve Him by a loose tongue or bad attitude or actions . And we can quench Him when He gives us prompts to do this or that good thing and we don't do it . I suppose also if we get very stubborn and dig our heels in we also quench the Spirit .
He can then leave us feeling bereft of His presence in truth He has stepped back or in the hinder part of our boat as it were . We are not being led by Him as directly as we should .
The eternal resting place of the Holy Spirit is the Word of God . When Jesus was baptised the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove tested upon Him .Consider Noah who sent out a dove .The first time it found no place if rest and returned . When he sent it out again it returned with an emblem of its resting place . In the OT the Spirit came upon people but did not rest upon them or rather in them for the Blood had not yet been shed . But after Calvary and the Blood of Christ had been accepted by the Father then was the Holy Spirit able to abide in us forever
Given the above comment I cannot add much except to say that we need to test ourselves to see if we are in the faith. This involves an impartial life review as it were; or else the danger is that we have seen evidence of His grace around us but haven't recieved it ourselves. Godly sorrow leads to repentance; worldly sorrow ultimately doesn't do any eternal good for our soul and leads to death (even Judas Iscariot was sorry that what he called a "righteous man" was killed because of his complicity and involvement in the arrest).
The Spirit contends with the flesh; a true believer therefore can never be content living in sin; or a lifestyle therein.
Feelings therefore cannot be our barometer; although we cannot ignore true guilt. The enemy will accuse us when we sin and convince us the blood isn't sufficient for atonement; and also he will use others to put false guilt and such when we try to stick to scriptural convictions on things; as I am unfortunately dealing with at present.
Hope that helps a bit; gitta go to work now.
RIch P
It is however true, that if a believer should succumb to the enemy's temptations and does not take remedial action as the Holy Spirit directs, then there will be loss. Not a loss of the Holy Spirit or salvation, but the loss of sweet communion, maybe of some degree of estrangement if sin is allowed to persist, and of the Spirit's intervention by way of warning or discipline. Or the Spirit might even allow that erring soul to taste the depravity of his/her sin, so that they may come to their senses, repent, and be restored; the story of the prodigal son is a good example of a poor choice made and yet, of a waiting loving father who is ready to forgive, receive, and restore ( Luke 15:11-32).
Just a few verses to consider (and there are many more): John 10:26-29; Romans 8:33-39; Ephesians 1:13,14; Ephesians 2:8-10; Philippians 1:6; 1 Peter 1:3-5; Jude 1:24,25.
This is why we often read of the apostles encouraging believers to be on guard against the enemy of our souls, of sin creeping into the life, and not being involved in anything that even smells of sin; Why? Not for salvation's loss, but for suffering under God's Hand of discipline and the pain of estrangement from God.
Why should we entertain anything that breaks our special love relationship with our God & Savior & bring on ourselves sorrow upon sorrow? The Holy Spirit will always alert us when we err and will always bring us back, so salvation cannot be lost. But for those who feel no sorrow or estrangement when they stray, they do not have the Holy Spirit within them and are not saved. But while they have breath, there remains hope if they draw near to God, He will draw near to them. GBU.
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