"Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?"
Hello Lana. You are correct to believe that Almighty God cannot be seen by human eyes ( John 1:18); for God is Spirit and altogether Holy. Even if we mortals were able to have a glimpse of Him, we would be consumed instantly ( Exodus 33:20).
So, the only way we could understand this encounter with God that Jacob had (even as Moses, Isaiah & Job did; as also Abraham, Jacob, Gideon & Manoah with the Angel of the LORD), is to believe that God had provided these men a glimpse of His Holiness, yet not actually seeing the 'Face' of God. In the matter with Jacob ( Genesis 32:24-30) wrestling this unknown man (where did he come from and why was he even there wrestling?), we can understand this 'man' to be sent by God and through this event, proclaim to Jacob that he would be called 'Israel' (a prince of power that has prevailed with God and men).
There have been other interpretations of "this man": that he was Jesus before His incarnation on Earth, or he was an angel (whether Michael or Gabriel, or another), even a special angel to represent God on Earth to Jacob and also to those others mentioned earlier. However one understands the person & origin of this man, the fact remains that Jacob, and the others, would not have been able to see the Person of God (even as God only revealed His Glory to Moses as He passed by him - Exodus 33:20-23). I believe that Jacob, not only wrestled with a physical man, but understood that this man was sent from Heaven by God & in some way revealed to him something of the Power & Glory of God. And so Jacob called that place, Peniel, a place where he saw God (at least what God revealed to him of Himself) & Jacob was relieved to have survived that encounter.
I hope that goes some way to help you understand that Jacob, and the others, would not have seen the Person of God, but what God chose to reveal to them of His Glory, Majesty, and Power - and this revelation was to them as if they had encountered God in Person.
For one thing is it not written that God says " seek my face"? Did not David respond with " Thy face will I seek"?
And did not God testify that He spoke with Moses face to face as a man speaks with another man?
While I agree with your first premise that no flesh can see God and even as no man can look at the sun with impunity with his 'naked' eyes .How much the more can any man look upon Gods face with his naked eyes?
But what of Job and his confession in the last couple of chapters?
The angels of God around the throne cover their faces with their wings but we behold his glory in the face of Jesus Christ .
When Jesus said " I am the way the truth and the life ,no man cometh unto the Father accept by me " that is not just for our salvation . It is always by Him that we can come " boldly into the presence of God" that we might find grace and mercy in time of need .
When at the last supper and the Lord was speaking much of the Father . One of the disciples saud " show us the Father and we will be satisfied " Jesus replied ," Have I been with you so long .and you do not know me?" Know you not they that have seen me have seen the Father ? That I am in the Father and the Father is in Me ".
"Little children your sins are forgiven and you know the father " 1John .
" Ye fathers you know Him who is from the beginning "
Little children know their fathers face how much more do " ye fathers"?
A very satisfactory response to a very "touchy" issue. I guess our human mind cannot really fathom what GOD has in HIS plans and actions.
In recent months, I have come to accept that it is a tale of a two sided coin but GOD's permutation, can have answers to many different view points. Guess being humble and lowly will be the first step in understanding HIS intended message to us. Have a blessed day.
Hello DSCY222. I totally agree. There are many things revealed or taught to us in God's Word, but not everything read or learned gives us a conclusive, no-argument answer. I think we are allowed to remain in some ignorance; this 'unfortunate' state causing us to search more deeply and wait much longer for the Holy Spirit's Guidance towards the Truth. Though there are Truths we need to be firm on, and this concerns clear teachings given to us on the Doctrines of God, His Son, His Spirit and His Salvation. If we're unsure or confused here, then almost everything concerning our Christian belief and experience can become haphazard & we veer off in tangents, leading us further away from foundational Truth clearly set before us. Blessings.
Yes, i have the same dilemma as you. Have many testimonies and confessions from converts who claimed they had seen and spoken with Jesus Christ and God or both. As to to cause offense, I choose to remain silent and not mention about the verse in the Bible that stated that "no one had seen God".
"Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?"
John 10:30
"I and my Father are one."
Blessings
So, the only way we could understand this encounter with God that Jacob had (even as Moses, Isaiah & Job did; as also Abraham, Jacob, Gideon & Manoah with the Angel of the LORD), is to believe that God had provided these men a glimpse of His Holiness, yet not actually seeing the 'Face' of God. In the matter with Jacob ( Genesis 32:24-30) wrestling this unknown man (where did he come from and why was he even there wrestling?), we can understand this 'man' to be sent by God and through this event, proclaim to Jacob that he would be called 'Israel' (a prince of power that has prevailed with God and men).
There have been other interpretations of "this man": that he was Jesus before His incarnation on Earth, or he was an angel (whether Michael or Gabriel, or another), even a special angel to represent God on Earth to Jacob and also to those others mentioned earlier. However one understands the person & origin of this man, the fact remains that Jacob, and the others, would not have been able to see the Person of God (even as God only revealed His Glory to Moses as He passed by him - Exodus 33:20-23). I believe that Jacob, not only wrestled with a physical man, but understood that this man was sent from Heaven by God & in some way revealed to him something of the Power & Glory of God. And so Jacob called that place, Peniel, a place where he saw God (at least what God revealed to him of Himself) & Jacob was relieved to have survived that encounter.
I hope that goes some way to help you understand that Jacob, and the others, would not have seen the Person of God, but what God chose to reveal to them of His Glory, Majesty, and Power - and this revelation was to them as if they had encountered God in Person.
For one thing is it not written that God says " seek my face"? Did not David respond with " Thy face will I seek"?
And did not God testify that He spoke with Moses face to face as a man speaks with another man?
While I agree with your first premise that no flesh can see God and even as no man can look at the sun with impunity with his 'naked' eyes .How much the more can any man look upon Gods face with his naked eyes?
But what of Job and his confession in the last couple of chapters?
The angels of God around the throne cover their faces with their wings but we behold his glory in the face of Jesus Christ .
When Jesus said " I am the way the truth and the life ,no man cometh unto the Father accept by me " that is not just for our salvation . It is always by Him that we can come " boldly into the presence of God" that we might find grace and mercy in time of need .
When at the last supper and the Lord was speaking much of the Father . One of the disciples saud " show us the Father and we will be satisfied " Jesus replied ," Have I been with you so long .and you do not know me?" Know you not they that have seen me have seen the Father ? That I am in the Father and the Father is in Me ".
"Little children your sins are forgiven and you know the father " 1John .
" Ye fathers you know Him who is from the beginning "
Little children know their fathers face how much more do " ye fathers"?
A very satisfactory response to a very "touchy" issue. I guess our human mind cannot really fathom what GOD has in HIS plans and actions.
In recent months, I have come to accept that it is a tale of a two sided coin but GOD's permutation, can have answers to many different view points. Guess being humble and lowly will be the first step in understanding HIS intended message to us. Have a blessed day.
Yes, i have the same dilemma as you. Have many testimonies and confessions from converts who claimed they had seen and spoken with Jesus Christ and God or both. As to to cause offense, I choose to remain silent and not mention about the verse in the Bible that stated that "no one had seen God".
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