Discuss Hebrews 10 Page 12

Hi Mishael ,thankyou for your interesting post ,i dont not believe in any kind of demon possesion ,i believdoin mental illness ,i have known and do know many people suffering from mental illness who have been helped to lead normal happy lives by medication ,if they had been possesed by demons or evil spirits i cant imagine the medication would have helped them much .

Dear Jesse,

My point was that Jesus's words were and are for all, and your point is that they aren't. Then I ask you to backup this with scripture and you dodged and asked me that. Just so I understand, your argument is that not all of Jesus's words and message is for everyone, such as to Christians? If Jesus's mentions about blaphemy don't apply to Christians, then what else do you think doesn't apply to Christians? What process do you use to determine which of Jesus's words then apply to you?

Your other argument seems not based on scripture, but merely an emotional speculative one about you not feeling capable of certain sin. That's great if you feel protected, solid, and have your armor of God on at this time. Just because you personally don't feel you're capable of something at this point of time doesn't mean it's impossible for someone in general to falter. Anyone can be tempted by satan. Plenty of Christians have had affairs, lied, done drugs, coveted, even killed, followed the world, and have even backtracked and drifted away from Christ. It's a strange argument to claim to deny that Christians have freewill to sin, and have the freewill to commit horrible unspeakable acts, including blaphemy.

>I DO NOT believe I have any right to live a lifestyle of sin because I'm saved regardless. You are going to be very hard pressed to find someone who believes they can "commit unlimited sin, and enjoy sin, to live in the world, to love the world, and assume they have a get out of hell free card?"

It's hard to comprehend this as you appear to live in another world. Christians are rampantly involved in sin. It's absolutely sickening to see. I know a Christian right now who has premarital sex, watches porn, and does drugs and stopped going. According to you he can have total assurance of salvation with zero concern? What if he kills? What about blasphemes? No worries? If so why did Jesus say the opposite to Christians? Luke 12:5, 2 Corinthians 5:10, Hebrews 10:26

Prayer for Healing: I pray against sickness in my coming and going. I pray against any form of sickness coming near my home or anywhere near my vicinity. I claim my healing against hopelessness, infirmity, and illnesses in the mighty name of Jesus Christ. I declare by the power and holy authority of the Holy Ghost that no illnesses spirit or sickness attack from the enemy shall prevail against me in Jesus's mighty name. I confess Jesus Christ as my infinite Healer, and by His holy stripes and mighty authority, I declare that I am totally healed from every sickness and illnesses. I render every satanic sickness power the occult can possibly use against me useless. I rebuke every spiritual foundation of sickness, and I command every infirmities spirit to bow down right now to the authority that is in the name of Jesus Christ. I pray against sickness in any form or shape. I say with confidence that I am the healed of the LORD Jesus Christ. I cover myself and family with Christ's precious holy blood, and I declare by His holy might and righteousness dominion authority that it shall continue to be well with me and my family in all dominion, dimensional realms. I release the judgement fire of the Holy Ghost upon every stubborn spirit of sickness and illnesses. I forbid by the authority of the Holy Ghost any reoccurrence of sickness in my life. I claim immunity for me and for my family against every form of sicknesses with the atonement blood of Jesus Christ. I declare that we carry the mark of Christ, therefore, let no infirmities spirits ever trouble us! In Jesus of Nazareth holy name and by His righteous authority I have decreed and declared! Amen!! Pray this every day till your faith grows huge on God's Promises to us. Find in Ezekiel 37 the story of the bones. We have bones of faith everywhere in our lives. Begin to prophesy to the bones. Call them to stand up and become an army that scares demons, in the name of Jesus!

Matthew 12

43 When the unclean spirit (demon) is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.

44 Then he saith, I will return into my house (you) from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.

45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

What it means in verse 44, is that we have not filled up our house (our spirit and soul) with enough Bible and, on-our-knees prayer, to frighten the demons into fleeing and staying away. (Just stay with me ok? I've had plenty of experience with these things.)

FAMILIAR SPIRITS are like family spies. They watch you and your family, looking for ways to come back in. They travel with TORMENTING spirits. That's what they do.

You have to close the door. Renew your vow to follow Jesus. John 3. Ask God to send his warrior angels to guard the 4 corners of your home, and everyone within. Ask the Holy Spirit to give you the gift of Discerning of Spirits. You're not going to see anything. But God is faithful to His Word. If you discern trouble, speak: "I bind you evil spirit and I cast you into outer darkness. Do not return. In the NAME of Jesus Christ. Amen. Praise to the name of Jesus!"

They will leave. Those angels will escort them out. God watches over His Word. You study the Chapter in the Bible, when Jesus was on the 40 day Fast. How did he defeat Satans temptations? What did Jesus say? A command + a scripture.

Ask the presence of the Holy Spirit to fill you up again. You need to make time to furnish your "house" (you on the inside), with the Bible. Every day you will feel Jesus's strength and JOY. Listen to the Bible on YouTube in the car too. It works. Make "DOUBT", leave too.

Mishael

Kathy, you asked where in the Bible it says that salvation can be lost and someone was kind enough to respond and show you exactly where. Some of the questions were already answered on the reply.

I will go ahead and reply to your specific questions again in hope that this could be a genuine question.

>If salvation can be lost, by what means?

Luke 12:10 says blasphemy of the holy ghost is unforgiveable. That means if someone chooses to commit this sin, Christian or not, they will not be forgiven and will go to hell.

Hebrews 10:26

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,". This means if a Christian continues in unrepentant sin they are in danger of having no grace to save them.

>Those scriptures you gave are misquoted.

No, they are not misquoted. When you hover over them they show the 100% correct scriptures. When I referred to them I highlighted the portion of scripture being referred to by using elipses... For proper context one should read the whole chapter and book.

>Here you have my salvation but you practiced free will and sinned so I retract your salvation.??? Really?

Is this an emotional argument being presented against the Bible? You will have to take that up with God. Luke 12:10 is clear and there's not much room to interpret it any other way. I'd be quite surprised if Christians who have denounced the faith, turned their back on God, who hate God and have chosen to commit unlimited sin, are welcomed to spent eternity with God in heaven. Likewise, what Jesus said in John 14:15 is clear. If someone doesn't obey, that means they don't love Jesus. Do you expect ho doesn't love Jesus go to heaven?

I've also heard an illogical argument claiming that real Christians can't or won't deny Jesus, as if they no longer have freewill. If this were true then there wouldn't be "ex-Christian" social media forums. Prominent Christian evangelists have denounced the faith before. Satan is real and can deceive Christians.

>Salvation at judgement?

Romans 14:12. 1 Peter 1:13, 2 Corinthians 5:10, 2 Peter 2:9

Hi Ray ,i dont really know how to answer your post as i dont feel i have enough information about your situation ,however you sound so sad i couldnt just ignore you ,i think that some where inside you you know what this is all about ,something is perhaps unresolved and praying on your mind or heart ? Dont be discouraged with regards to talking to God about it in prayer ,He hasnt gone any where ,He hasnt changed ,He still loves you ,please talk to Him honestly and openly ,when and where you know you cant be disturbed by any one else ,He will not be offended by your honesty , dont give up on Him because i promise you that He wont give up on you .

Hi Andrew, that's not what that verse means. Having the holy spirit sealed to you doesn't mean you're stripped of freewill to commit sin and doesn't mean you don't have choices still of who you will follow: Jesus or satan. We're not saved until after we're judged and this doesn't happen until after this life. 1 Peter 1:5 - "...salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." 1 Corinthians 9:24-27, Matthew 7:21

Also blasphemy was mentioned as a warning for a reason. If someone claims Christians are without sin they are not being honest, Ecclesiastes 7:20. And someone claiming they can do whatever they want (sin) and face no consequences are gravely mistaken. John 14:15.

Link

Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

James 2:14-26 "...faith, if it hath not works, is dead..."

James 2:19 "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

1 Peter 1:13 "...hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;"

Romans 11

Matthew 12:31-32

Romans 14:12

Ray, If you've accepted Jesus as your saviour, then you have not committed the unpardonable sin.

Rejecting Jesus is the unpardonable sin

Luke 12:9

But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God.

Speaking out against God isn't unpardonable, denying him is.

Luke 12:10

And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

And if you are in Christ Jesus, you are not condemned to anything.

Romans 8:1

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

If you confess your sins to him, he will forgive you.

1 John 1:9

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

And if by any chance you're scared God might take your wife or kids away, remember these:

Matthew 19:6

Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

James 1:17

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

Just confess your sins and ask for forgiveness and don't worry about them any more; God will forget them.

Psalm 103:11-12

For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him. [12] As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

But don't use that as an excuse to continue in sin..

God will chastise you.

Romans 6:1-2

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? [2] God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Hebrews 12:6

For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

If you are ever tempted to sin again, read 1 Corinthians 10:13

No one is saved until after they are judged on the day of judgment. We can have hope and assurance of salvation if we genuinely follow Jesus, but the Bible doesn't say anywhere that you will be saved regardless of your beliefs, faith, actions. Does that mean 100% of all people are saved, even Hitler and mass murderers? Jesus said most people will go to hell, so that doesn't square up. He even said many will cry out Lord, Lord, assuming they will make it to heaven, but won't. He even warned his followers (Christians) to obey and not fall into sin. If everyone was saved regardless, then it's unlikely Jesus would have warned so many people with parables.

This one verse Luke 12:10 says whomever commits this sin will not be forgiven. The idea of once saved, always saved contradicts itself, because it assumes a person who becomes a Christian no longer has freewill, which is untrue and inconsistent with the Bible. Even angels in heaven had freewill and chose to rebel, like satan. So, just because someone responds to an altar call and decides to follow Jesus doesn't mean he instantly is stripped of freewill. He absolutely still has a choice every day of who he wants to follow: Jesus, or the world (satan). Sadly, too many Christians have denounced their faith and have turned to follow the world. Becoming a Christian doesn't give anyone a license to commit unlimited sin and those who have spread this lie is doing the work of satan. There are many verses in the Bible supporting this and are posted often in the discussion threads.

Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

James 2:14-26 "...faith, if it hath not works, is dead..."

James 2:19 "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

1 Peter 1:13 "...hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;"

Romans 11

John 14:15

Hi

The Holy Spirit spoke to me and I spoke back ...a few days later my whole life changed I no longer have the Spirits peace and comfort but.. fear and trembling I

Unable to sleep, a lack of love as my hart has been hardened over the months

I have a good wife and 3 teenage kids

Who I love dearly.. but can feel it anymore

I have to take medicine to function..

When I get as in the midst of sinning th spirit said "you will loose blessings "

and I unfortunately said back so what's going to happen...

I've been a Christian for 25 years, my poor family..

I feel I've committed the unpardonable sin

Any help?

Thank you Ray

Hello S Spencer.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Yes, that is what Hebrews 6:4-6 is indeed saying. A person who becomes a true Christian and remains one for years but who later decides, of his own free will, to fall away and no longer serve God and becomes a hater of God - and remains firmly in that state for the rest of his life - will no longer be able to be saved. There is no more forgiveness for them.

Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin WILFULLY after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

2 Peter 2:20 "For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and OVERCOME, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning."

There are 2 types of sins. The sins we make because of our imperfection - which can be forgiven - and the willful, rebellious sin that we chose to do because we no longer love God but have decided our our own free will to be against God. Notice this very carefully at

1 John 5:16-17 "If any man see his brother sin a sin which is NOT unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin NOT unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

John speaks of 2 sins. One is unto death and the other is not. Weaknesses due to our imperfect flesh, is not a sin unto death. But, wickedness not due to our imperfect flesh but due to a heart that has become evil by choice, is a sin unto death - the second death.

Yes, "all unrighteousness is sin" says John. Even if I just lust momentarily at a woman, I have committed a sin. However, sin can be forgiven - unless it is willful. Willful and persistent sin with no repentance is unto death and there remains to more sacrifice for that kind of sin.

I welcome your further thoughts.

Good day.

Can a Christian lose his salvation?

Well, does man have free will to chose to love God and obey him or does God control us to the point where we can't do otherwise?

Did Adam have a choice? Yes. He chose badly and paid the consequences.

Did Noah have a choice? Well, he could have joined the others and would have died in the flood.

Did the ancient nation of Israel have a choice? Well, at times they chose to obey and were blessed. Unfortunately, a lot of the time, they chose to disobey and paid by destruction from Babylon and then Rome.

Christians have a choice to obey or not. God can help us, but he will not make us obey automatically. That is why we have so many warnings given throughout the New Testament by the Apostles to Christians in the Church.

Galatians 6:7-8 "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting."

Hebrews 10:26 "For if WE sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

Paul includes himself in that statement. If WE sin willfully...

Romans 2:6-8 "Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,"

Kindly.

MICHAEL.

PG 3

Matthew 7:24-27 (KJV) Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man,"WHICH BUILT HIS HOUSE UPON A ROCK:"

And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

And every one that "HEAR" these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which "BUILT HIS HOUSE ON SAND:"

And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. ( ONE MAN BUILT HIS HOUS UPON JESUS FINISH WORK ON THE CROSS.) Parallels to Hebrews 10:26-29.

( You can know the way, that doesn't mean you believe in it. you trying to climb up some other kind of way.)

2 Peter 1:8-11. Parallels with 2 Corinthians 13-5. Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, "except ye be reprobates?" (FRUITLESS)

2 Peter 1:8-9"For if these things be in you," and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. IF WHAT THINGS BE IN YOU? ANSWER IN VERSES 5-7. "FRUIT" IF YOU LACK IT YOUR NOT SAVED. YOU KNOW THEM BY THER FRUIT. MATHEWS 7:16.

Romans 11:20-21 (KJV) Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Why were they broken off ? "Because of unbelief?

( Well if you're broken off because of unbelief and it takes belief to be saved then you're not saved, because you didn't believe whom he sent. John 5:38. And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not. ( So how can you loose what you didn't have?)

Hi Jesse,

The Bible warns many times that a person can lose their salvation. Here are a few places.

John 15:6 "If a man abide (remain) not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."

Romans 11:21 "For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee."

2 Peter 2:20-22 "For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Hebrews 6:4-6 "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Hebrews 10:26-29 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

I welcome your thoughts.

Good day.

Hi Chacha,

I'm sorry if I took your comments wrong. You made this post that started this whole thread: "REPENTANCE NOT NEEDED FOR SALVATION - ONLY BELIEVING

Dear readers, I have heard lots of sermons that teach that one must repent to be saved. I believe this is a false doctrine because NOWHERE in the whole Bible does anyone teach it. All the Scriptures teach is just believing:-".

I'm sure most of us here know what "repent" means. Also we receive the Holy Ghost before we "repent" or "change ways" because it is Christ in us guiding us down the straight and narrow path. We change because if Him. Away from the sins of the world we have all been indoctrinated into in our lives before coming to Christ. If any one "turns back" to the world it is said it shall not be good for that person. Hebrews 10:26-31, 2 Peter 20-22.

I'm sorry but I don't want to debate with you about this as I am confused about what you are stating. I think you are making it a bit confusing as I really don't know why you made the first post. It should be known that "mostly" when we state of "repenting" it is of sins. I guess you could just start using that word in everything "turn from or change" is used if you want.

A couple things I don't understand you using. Why would you even say or ask one of us if God could sin? That seems a bit harsh and uncalled for. Also how you stated that the book of John "It's the ONLY book that brings people to salvation". Which to me is false and not true. Though it does not have the word "repent" in it it has much of those being in darkness, evil deeds, and sin.

I'm going to stop here. As I'm going to make another post today about how saddened I am seeing of the division of Christ. Petty things that split believers when the main focus should be on Jesus Christ and His Word. Let the Holy Ghost be our teacher instead of another person though we should all help one another if able.

1 Corinthians 9:14.

God Bless you and have a wonderful day!

Hello Richard,

Thank you for your comments. I enjoyed reading your thoughts.

Indeed, I certainly agree with you that the Old Testament books are still important for Christians. Indeed, the Apostle Paul said that all scripture is beneficial. ( 2 Timothy 3:16) He also stated at Romans 15:4 that those things were written to teach us. Also, at 1 Corinthians 10:6 and 1 Corinthians 10:11, he says that those things were examples to us to teach us and warn us.

However, as far as the terms of a Testament or Covenant concerning the laws that we must obey, Christians should obey only the New Testament laws which are binding on a Christian. You cannot have 2 rental leases in force at the same time. The new rental lease makes the old one obsolete. The New Testament makes the Old Testament obsolete.

Hebrews 8:13 "In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."

Hebrews 7:12 "For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the (Mosaic) law."

Luke 16:16 "The (Mosaic) law and the prophets were until John..."

Christians are not commanded in the New Testament to keep the Saturday sabbath and neither to keep a dominical sabbath (Sunday). There is no set day to keep. The only thing that is commanded to be kept is meeting together - that can be anytime during the week.

Hebrews 10:24, 25 "And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

The Apostle Paul counsels against keeping any "day":

Galatians 4:10 "Ye observe (sabbath) days, and (lunar) months, and (festivals) times, and (sabbatical) years."

Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

I welcome your further comments.

Good day, Richard.

Hebrews 10:24-29. And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

For if we sin WILFULLY after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Our position in Christ oppose to those in the flesh/unsaved-

- Romans 8:6-13. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

""BUT IF THE SPIRIT OF HIM THAT RAISED UP JESUS FROM THE DEAD DWELL IN YOU, HE THAT RAISED UP CHRIST FROM THE DEAD SHALL ALSO QUICKEN YOUR MORTAL BODIES BY HIS SPIRIT THAT DWELLETH IN YOU.""

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

The 1st Adam a living soul. "flesh

The 2nd Adam a life giving spirit.

All the Glory to God, We obey from the heart the Laws of God by command.

written in our fleshly hearts.

God bless.

Jesus nicely summarized the law in those 2 commandments.

You said Jesus put an end to (destroy) living by the law, but Jesus anticipated someone thinking this so he said Matthew 5:17-18 that he didn't come to destroy the law.

He also said to obey His commandments: John 14:15. So, one can conclude that if you don't obey His commandments then you don't love Jesus. If you don't love or follow Jesus, that person probably isn't a Christian (a Christ follower by definition).

For instance, if one thinks it's ok to go out and kill someone, Jesus says no, you can't do that. Romans 6:1-2, Hebrews 10:26.

God bless...

Brother Richard, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and His understanding.

I believe if there is a second death; there has to also be a first death.

Two resurrections; therefore, two deaths.

God is no respector of person; therefore, if the ones in second resurrection die (are judged) in the lake of fire; the ones in the first resurrection also die (are judged) in the lake of fire.

When Christ caused us to become one with him (CHRIST IN US) we we cast into (CHRIST) the lake of fire. To partake of the bread of life and the fountain of living water we also have to partake of the judgement of fire. As the bread and water gives us life, the fire cleanses and purifies us. We are being judged in the lake of fire (word of God) now; therefore, we want have our part in the lake of fire at the second resurrection.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is APPOINTED unto men once to die, but after this the judgement:

We died with Christ on the Cross (first death). We are being judged IN CHRIST now, BY THE WORD, BY FIRE. Those appointed the second death will be judged IN CHRIST ( Hebrews 10:31), BY THE WORD, BY FIRE.

Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was offered once for the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear a SECOND TIME (NOW, to those in the first resurrection the second coming is NOW; we don't have to wait for the literal appearance of Christ) WITHOUT SIN UNTO SALVATION.

For those in the second resurrection their judgement IN CHRIST is going to last awhile. Matthew says those that blaspheme the Holy Spirit want be saved in this age or the next age. This age so far has lasted 2000 years. We don't know how long the next age will last.

I believe those in the second resurrection will be raised back in bodies of flesh. The first resurrection, glorified bodies.

Revelation 20:7 ...Satan (flesh) will be loosed out of his prison (death and the grave),

1 Corinthians 15:40 celestial (glorified); terrestrial (flesh and blood)

Sacha, it is possible that the OT folk knew something of a suffering beyond the grave, but I agree that there's not a lot mentioned in that respect. We could look at Daniel 12:2: "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." Here the thought is that those who die will awake (resurrection?), some to everlasting life & some to everlasting contempt. So even if one doesn't believe in a never-ending suffering, this verse shows that the dead don't remain dead but arise to some sort of judgement & punishment that doesn't end.

Isaiah 30:33: "For Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; he hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it." In this verse, the word "Tophet" is used & in the Greek (NT) is translated as Gehenna. This was a place near Jerusalem, in which the idolatrous Israelites used to offer up their children to Moloch. It may be put, for any place of torment; and particularly it is put for hell. "For the king": For the king of Assyria. "Fire": He alludes to the ancient custom, of burning sacrifices, and particularly of burning children to Moloch. "The breath": The immediate Hand of God, or His Word of anger. "Brimstone": alludes to that shower of fire and brimstone seen in Gen 19:24. Though this verse doesn't speak of an after death judgement, it reveals its counterpart in the NT.

You can also look at Isaiah 66:22-24. So I can't say why there was not more written about this subject in the OT & even among Jews there are different camps as to what to believe. For me, I think it sufficient that Jesus spoke very clearly about it & treated the everlasting suffering of the sinner as real & it was for this reason He came so that none should fall under the Hand of God ( Hebrews 10:31).

Dear Joan,

I think only a minority of Christians believe once saved, always saved, because the Bible doesn't support that idea. Most people would agree that Hitler probably won't be in heaven, despite going to church when young and possibly identifying as a Christian at one point. Judas was a Christian (a literal Christ follower) and betrayed Him in a huge way, and it's my personal belief that he is not saved. There's countless examples of Christians who unfortunately have turned their back on Jesus and started following the ways of the world or the devil himself. Jesus warned His followers to obey and fear God and avoid sin and obey. People today are making claims that you don't have to do anything at all. I believe God is a fair judge.

This doesn't mean we're saved by effort, it's grace. But Jesus clearly said if you love Him then obey. Christianity is an action requiring effort. Those who are genuine Christians following Christ will be saved, those who aren't are in danger of not being saved. I believe Bible backs this up very well. Plus, one can have assurance of salvation, but no one is actually saved until judgment day. So, people that claim they're saved, and can enjoy sin and doing evil 24/7 are mistaken. That idea only comes from satan. They will call out Lord, Lord and Jesus will not know him, just as the Bible says. Jesus said most people won't go to heaven- narrow is the way. Some accuse others of being legalistic, but they'd probably accuse Jesus of that too: John 14:15.

Just a few relevant verses...

Hebrews 10:26

James 2:14-26 "...faith, if it hath not works, is dead..."

James 2:19 "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

1 Peter 1:13 "...hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;"

Romans 11

John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments."

Matthew 12:31-32.

Romans 14:12

1 Peter 1:5 - "...salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."

God won't leave you if you follow Him, and following Him assumes you're being obedient, but if you turn your back on Him and follow the devil the Bible doesn't say you're saved. Salvation assumes you're doing your part and actually following Him. If you can show me a verse that says otherwise, please do. But I have a mountain of verses that support this, like: Matthew 7:21, Hebrews 10:26. 3 John 1:11 says if you do evil God doesn't even know you. John 14:15 Jesus says if you love Him you will keep His commandments, that means if you don't keep His commandments you don't love Him.

Most of the warnings Jesus gave was to His Christian followers, about being careful, being on watch, on guard, parables warn of most people going to hell and being prepared, Peter talked about running the race well to the finish to get the 'prize', etc. So, was all that useless talk? If everyone is automatically saved regardless of their actions does that mean all the parables and talk was irrelevant? Or, is it more likely Jesus was right, that your actions do matter, and that maybe some men need to adjust their expectations and begin to fear God like it says so many times: Matthew 10:28.

Most people will go to hell, and Jesus predicted that many will be surprised they're not going in, and cry out 'Lord, Lord'... You can't earn heaven, people are saved by grace, but this assumes you're a Christian- which is a verb that means following Christ and not sinning and being a light to the world through good deeds, because that's what Christians should do. It doesn't mean its impossible to sin, but Christians must avoid sin at all costs! Matthew 5:30 I think many who call themselves Christians will be shocked on judgment day and have deep regret for their actions and not taking Christianity seriously. God bless...

Dear Sherry,

It appears you're receiving mostly responses that de-emphasize obedience. I do not believe once saved always saved, because of Matthew 12:22-32 and so many other verses. I think if that was true Jesus would not have continually warned his followers (Christians) over and over through parables and stories about obedience and keeping His commandments and avoiding sin. It takes effort. It literally addresses this already in the Bible- saying that people used it as a license to sin and "abuse" grace: Jude 1:4, Hebrews 10:26, James 2:14-26, John 14:15, James 2:19. I fully believe all the verses others shared with you above, but unfortunately it appears most are sharing an imbalanced perspective. The Word speaks for itself and does not say once saved, always saved. Christians can and do turn from the faith, unfortunately, and sometimes a % go in the complete opposite direction and do horrific things, just like any other person can who does evil and follows the world or satan. I'm responding, because I think it's important that you not listen to men, but to the Word and pray and ask God for wisdom that you will know the truth. There are many false prophets and fake news being spread and we know who is behind that. God bless...

Bro Barney,

If I may add a little more to the truth you have shared, I believe there are only two types of people in this world, saved and unsaved. A person is either a slave to Jesus Christ or a slave to sin, no in-between. I believe that salvation is a present-tense condition of everyone who has been born of God's Spirit. A true believer who is being led by God's Spirit would never think it is okay to commit sin or to live a sinful lifestyle.

There are many who claim to be Christians but have never been born of the Spirit of Christ. They may go to church religiously and participate with the believers and give the appearance of being a believer, but still be void of God's Spirit dwelling within. Those are the ones who eventually walk away. To the others in the church who assumed that person was saved, they will say "See, he walked away and denounced the whole thing, so he lost his salvation.

This was the same with Judas Iscariot. He was part of the twelve but he was evil from the start. Judas was never saved and then lost his salvation. Jesus chose an evil man to fulfil the scripture saying that He would be betrayed. When Jesus said have not I chosen you all, and one of you is a devil, none of the other 11 knew that it was Judas. But Jesus knew, and that is why He chose Judas.

I shared earlier about the people in the book of Hebrews who were being "enlighted" to the truth, but later on turned and walked away. Those were Hebrew/Jewish people. They were never saved, but people want to use verses in Hebrews to show that salvation can be lost. I know of a couple of verses in Hebrews that are being used to show that salvation can be lost, Hebrews 6:4 and Hebrews 10:26, and also one in Peter's writings, but none of them is talking about saved people losing their salvation.

The bible speaks about those who profess to be Christian and later on walk away from it all. That's given to us in ( 1 John 2:19). They walk away because they were never saved to begin with!

"For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgement and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengenance belongeth to me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God" Hebrews 10:26-31

"We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive the grace of God in vain" 2 Corinthians 6:1

"I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth" Genesis 6:7

"But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord" Genesis 6:8

"Thou shall not Kill" Exodus 20:13

"Thou shall not commit adultery" Genesis 20:14

"An Ammonite or a Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the Lord for ever" Deuteronomy 23:3

"and Ruth the Moabitess.." Ruth 1:22

"Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy" Romans 9:18

"..ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ" Jude 1:4

"Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" Romans 6:1-2

"Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey: whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" Romans 6:16

"the soul that sinneth , it shall die" Ezekiel 18:14

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Thank you Sacha - I welcome all responses, as whatever is shared, unless completely in opposition to God's Word, can be useful for our knowledge & spiritual growth in the things & ways of God. So I agree, God did choose to have His Son born through a human, even though all humans are imputed with a sinful nature. And yes, I believe there was a reason for doing so.

At the foundation of Jesus' arrival & His Sacrifice, lies the unfathomable Love of God for mankind: John 3:16 & Romans 5:8 attest to it. To His people, Israel, that Love extended to the institution of the Law & the sacrificial system, so that through its performance, God's Anger against their sin was appeased & His Love declared in providing them a way out: a blood sacrifice was needed (through a pure spotless animal) so that life was paid for life (a substitutionary payment: Mark 10:45; 1 Peter 3:18). But that was for a time until Jesus came to fulfil the Will of God His Father ( Hebrews 10:5-10).

Since the animal sacrifices were temporary because of their inability to fully address the sin issue, they had to be a continual sacrifice, they gave no relief to man's consciences & never fulfilled God's eternal Plan, so at "the due time" God sent His Son to fully meet those shortcomings. God could have sent a specially created Lamb to fulfil this work or as some believe, a specially created Human to lay down His Life for sinners. So why didn't God do this?

Ultimately, the reason for this is in the Mind of God, but no doubt His Love for all, His requirement for a Perfect Sacrifice that fulfilled all His Demands & that there would be no further need nor better option to accomplish that Will, are a few of my thoughts. John 15:13 says, "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." Was not Jesus intimating that the fullest expression of Love is seen in one's unreserved willingness to sacrifice his own life because of the love for another?

Hello Mary,

As I would like to give you my aspect of this unforgivable sin. There are many that believe "once saved always saved" which is not in the Bible but a made up interpretation of picking verses. There is Scripture to prove that someone can receive the gift of the Holy Ghost and lose that gift. Hebrews 6:4-6, Hebrews 10:26-29, 1 Timothy 4:1 etc. Now I would only have to see one verse like that for it to touch my heart and know this is not a game. And there are more.

This to me does not mean one cannot fall away and then not return to the Lord as there have been instances like this. His mercy, forgiveness, and longsuffering is endless. He will have mercy and forgiveness to whom He want's Exodus 33:19. As He knows who it will help to prosper and those it will not help and be a waste for Him. As some who were once saved now curse God and the Lord etc. It is all up to God, as he reads hearts, and knows who shall endure till the end and who shall be saved. As He knows the end before the beginning.

As this, detail, also just came to me today as I was outside. Now I see why. Some may say "why would God give His Holy Spirit to someone when knows they will not make it". What came to me was that this is a way to justify us, His chosen people, His children, to show that He did not just give His Holy Spirit to His children. But to all types of people. Of coarse God does not need to do anything to answer questions of men. He is Almighty and does what He pleases. This will make those who fell away inexcusable even on their own terms. As He is fair and just.

I hope that helps and this is from me what I have come to learn. Letting the Holy Ghost guide and teach me.

All thanks be to our Lord Jesus Christ and our Father in heaven.

God Bless.

OnlytruthintheworldKJV, you were concerned of the time and dates on the 70th week ending and feel there is 3 years left. There are not any dates or time in the scriptures so we have to look at the recorded dates in history. This is the closest dates I can find in history records but it should be within a margin of erra, may it answer your doubts.

The 70 weeks of 7= 490 years. 483 years when Jesus was baptized. History places this around 29AD. Jesus' ministry was 3 years by the number of Passovers Jesus went to according to scriptures. We are at 486 years. Stephen's death is recorded around 36AD. This is around the same time Jesus stopped confirming the New Covenant through is Apostils and Peter had his dream and went to Cornelius and the gospel went to the Gentiles.

This prophecy was determined upon Israel and Jerusalem not the world, and these six things were to be fulfilled. See for yourself if these were fulfilled by Jesus. 1 To finish the transgression ( Isaiah 53:5, 8) ( Hebrews 9:15-18) 2. To make an end of sins ( Matthew 1:21) ( Hebrews 10:8-11) ( 1 John 3:5) ( Romans 8:3) 3. To make reconciliation for iniquity ( Colossians 1:20-22) ( Isaiah 53:6) ( Titus 2:14) ( 2 Corinthians 5:18-19) 4. To bring in everlasting righteousness ( Romans 5:17-21) ( 2 Corinthians 5:21) 5. To seal up vision and prophecy ( Daniel 9:23) ( John 6:27) ( Mark 1:14-15) 6. To anoint the most holy ( Hebrews 9:6-14).

The 3 years in Revelation starts when Satan is cast down and gives his power to the beast, not connected with the 70 weeks. If not clear its ok.

God bless Andrew, Ron

Interesting. So after 60 years of "intense" study of the Bible that is all you can say to me? I must state again. You proclaim there is no unforgivable sin(blasphemy of the Holy Ghost) though Jesus Christ says there is. ( 2 Peter 20-21.

With your one statement of "God shall never allow His Son to be crucified afresh". You mean like Hebrews 9:24-26. Yes I understand that. This does not give us free will to go about sinning in this world. Like stated in Hebrews 10:26-29 which I left for you in the previous post. Which would just be putting His blood to shame as stated. Sounding to be of the unforgivable sin which only the Lord shall judge. Of coarse we can make mistakes and we will always have forgiveness if we are true to humble ourselves before the Lord. Confess our sins, or mistakes, and strive to repent of them. To live for the Will of God not our own will. James 4:7-8

Seeing no real response to my couple questions which is ok. Back to the original question which is what led me to post to you in the first place. The Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit being different. Which again I say is false. Giving you detailed information of the original Greek texts which predates the English translation of the Scriptures.

As you have veered to reply to this information several times I do not expect a reply from you.

Thank you for all your time.

God Bless.

Dear Tom,

One other aspect I have been led to reply to is about how you stated "once anointed one cannot sin". As I can only perceive what you mean is to have received the Holy Ghost after giving our life to the Lord? Unless this is from a higher level in which God knows exactly who are His from before we took our first breath in this earth. How He knows the end before the beginning which is truth.

Now I know some believe in "once saved always saved". Which is nice to think but there is Scripture to contradict with this thought. Like Hebrews 10:26-31, ( 2 Peter 10:20-22. Jesus stating in Matthew 7:21-23. Also in Matthew 24:10-12 that there shall be a falling away and it is "he that shall endure until the end, the same shall be saved".

As we are all just vessels it is Gods choice alone who is to be saved. As in Romans 9:19-24, ( 2 Timothy 2:19-21. Even when God spake to Moses in Exodus 33:19. It is all His will which is Holy and pure.

Though as stated in the couple verses I have posted it seems that people can lose their salvation. As I would believe there are people who have fallen away and maybe hate God and Jesus Christ now. Also knowing of a couple that have fallen away but come back to the Lord. Which I believe shall be forgiven. As it is His will and all things are possible with God.