Discuss Ephesians 1 Page 4

Pg 1

Hi Jimbob. You wrote well though if I could just highlight the 'apostasy' (apostasia), as seen in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, & consider what the Apostle Paul was speaking of here. I realize that it would be simple to understand his statement as applying to believers, before that day of Christ's coming, that some would apostatize by rejecting Christ going back into the world or to embrace another religion. But are we correct to believe that this was what Paul was speaking of in light of his other writings & that of our Lord? (refs. John 10:27-29; John 6:37; 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:13,14; Ephesians 4:30; Romans 8:28-30; Jude 1:24,25; 2 Corinthians 5:17; 2 Timothy 2:19).

When we look at the definition of 'apostasy', it is as you have given ("An abandonment of what one has professed, a total desertion, or departure from one's faith, a total abandonment of the Christian faith"). But 'apostasy' is not simply restricted to a 'total departure from one's faith' but also 'a total departure or abandonment of one's principles, party, cause' (and one could even add 'departure from the Word of God which lays out the principles and Truths of doctrine & righteous living').

Unfortunately, the 2 Thessalonians 2:2-5 passage is not explicit to show us how Paul was applying this 'apostasy'. Obviously, the Thessalonian believers probably knew much more than we have been given (v5 'remember...I told you these things?'). Clearly, this apostasy doesn't relate to principles or causes of the world, because its context shows that Paul is speaking of an apostasy that will affect believers in some way. The question then is: is it the rejection of Christ altogether, or a departure/rejection of the Truth of God's Word? But isn't that the same thing, one could ask? I think you will agree Jimbob, that this rejection of Truth & promotion of unbiblical interpretations & lifestyle, has been going on for a long time - from within the Church itself.

Jimbob,

I think we both agree that the atoning blood sacrifice of Jesus Christ is very important. I was drawn to your comparison of Colossians 1:14 between the NIV and the KJB. I do not own an NIV but I have a few bible software programs that give me access to multiple bibles.

Anyway, I looked this up for myself. You are correct. But was it the intent of the NIV to eliminate or diminish the blood sacrifice? I don't believe so. I read a little further down in the same chapter (Verse 20) which reads, "and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross"

If it was the intent of the NIV to leave out the words "through His blood," why would it be mentioned in other places, especially in Ephesians 1:7 (NIV) which reads, "In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins."

You would think that if the NIV was intentionally trying to remove the blood sacrifice, then it would not be found in any other place.

Is there any reason why you fail to mention other verses in the NIV such as Romans 3:25 that says "God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood," 1 Peter 1:18-19 which mentions the precious blood of Christ, Ephesians 2:13 which says we have been brought near by the blood of Christ," Hebrews 9:14, "How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!" or Revelation 1:5 which says "To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood."

It doesn't seem fair to only bring up Colossians 1:14 without mentioning these other verses, especially Ephesians 1:7.

I am not defending the NIV, but I'm also not condemning it either.

Blessings to you in Christ Jesus!

Galatians 5:13

We are instructed to serve one another in regard to our spiritual gifts in this verse. 1 Peter 4:10 indicates this is how we are a good steward of what He has given us.

In Sunday school today; a discussion came up as to the matter of using gifts. It was correctly mentioned that this principle exists; along with the command of Christ in fulfilling the Great Commission. Therefore; whether we have a gift of serving or evangelism or not these activities should characterize a life of good fruit in maturing in the Lord. I also mentioned how often other individuals in fellowship are good at discerning either our strengths or weaknesses; which can be known or unknown to us at the time. This kind of encouragement to use our gifts should be something we seek out; and the Spirit of God makes it evident to those who are discerning. It was also brought out how someone as a Pastor can be more or less gifted in teaching.

Perhaps such levels of aptitude can allow those who are elders but not normally pastors can assist in the operation over a church (such positions are interchangeable to some respect as originally meant in scripture from what I am told). It is also fairly certain that a "head pastor" isn't really a title that adheres to scripture; particularly if there ISN'T any other elders; deacons; etc balancing things out. If anything there is someone to hold a Pastor accountable that is missing in that case.

I also find it interesting the whole core value system of Satanists; as they are for the self rather than interests or needs of others. That; sadly is also much of the focus of today's churches appealing to young singles. Salvation itself involves us becoming part of God's family; adopted as sons as Romans 8; Ephesians 1:5 and other verses indicate. The churches in Revelation 2 and 3 show a focus on individual salvation along with the health of the entire congregation in each synopsis of the 7 churches in question.

Giannis.

We are sealed by the Spirit.

Ephesians 4:30.

Here's the contrast to that.

Matthew 13:19-23. When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

The Holyspirit spirit reveals the truth of God and takes the truth and seal it.

Also;

John 16:12-15. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Here in John 16:30-32 we have a picture of the disciples belief shattered after Jesus was crucified.

But after they were sealed they preached boldly!!

Look at their condition in Matthew 28:16-17.

Ephesians 1:13.

God bless.

Concerning our eternal security.

If I can lose my salvation;

how do I re-save myself if I still abide in this sinful flesh?

If perfection is required; can we ever produce perfection being born of Adam?

Isn't that's why we have to be born Again?

Consider these verses:

1 John 3:9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 Corinthians 15:45-51

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, ( Then you will be perfect)

( neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.)

Being born of this corruptible flesh

If one can lose his salvation, he could never get it back!

I've seen one post saying; no one is saved or knows he's saved until the judgment.

(Isn't that the opposite of faith?)

Consider these verses:

2 Corinthians 1:22

Ephesians4:30.

Ephesians 1:13-14.

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

God bless.

Brother SSpencer:

Jesus himself says he has a God and has a Father.

Ephesians 4:6 ...and Father of ALL, even Jesus.

2 Corinthians 11:31 The GOD and Father of Jesus Christ .....

Ephesians 1:3 ...the GOD and Father of Jesus Christ ...

1 Peter 1:3 ...the God and Father of Jesus Christ ..

If Jesus has a God, and Jesus is a God, then there are 2 Gods, not 1.

There One because Christ is the BODY of HIS GOD.

If Jesus was the same God, as God, he wouldn't have to turn the kingdom back to the God who gave it to him.

Psalms 22:1 My God, MY God, why has thou forsaken me ...

Mark 15:34 .... My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me.

Was Christ crying out to himself.

Did not Christ, a God, have to be raise by the Spirit of God?

Christ himself said, I of myself can do nothing .....

The words are my Father's words

If he were the same God, as his God, he could speak his on words.

We have all been deceived, just like Revelation says, by mans teachings, and it's hard to repent from those teachings and believe what God says.

God bless you.

Introduction to eschatology discussion regarding timing of events from Rapture to 2nd Coming (continued).

As stated previously; I wish to look to the Word to explain itself. I also wish to maintain the hope of 1 Thessalonians 5:11 in light of our appearing before the King of Kings. I take the minority opinion that perhaps not all will be Raptured who believe as it appears to be a reward issue and because of certain language related to those in white garments washed in the blood; which appears to indicate those who previously had spotted or wrinkled garments and were not part of those in Ephesians 1:4.

I don't think it prudent to delve too deeply here into that concept; what I will say is that verses like Luke 21:36 and Revelation 3:10 at the very least should cause us to examine ourselves to see if we are saved and the Spirit is communing with us.

We should understand that not all who call themselves Christians truly are saved; and that parables like that of the 10 virgins whether it is an analogy of the church or of unbelieving Israel; whether it speaks of readiness for the Rapture or the Second Coming it certainly is a warning for us all to be ready. We can look to Revelation the same way; it is certainly applicable to those already under persecution and distress even with some unique characteristics to Tribulation events in history.

I am also as I probably made clear in earlier posts pretty dogmatic on taking a literal approach to scripture; and in Revelation taking things as indicated at least in chronological order or at least sequentially. I also emphasize the concept of Predestination in Revelation; as well as showing how great revival and restoration of the nation of Israel are some reasons for this final conflagration and time of terrible judgments. We should not be glib but sober minded when we consider the magnitude of these events. I contend that the church age is still in effect in it's final stages; the end of the age is near.

Salvation by man, or salvation by God?

(Part 4):

We also know from Scripture that no one can keep himself saved. John teaches, in 1 John 5:18 (as recorded in the oldest Greek manuscripts), "We know that everyone who has been born from God does not practice sin; but the one who has been born from God, God is keeping him and the evil one does not touch him."

John also states in John 10:27-29, "My sheep hear my voice and I know them; and they follow me. And I give to them eternal life; and they will never perish forever and not anyone will seize them from out of my hand. My Father who has given them to me is greater than all, and no one is able to seize them from out of the hand of my Father."

Jude states in his doxology in verse 24, "But to the one being able to keep you without stumbling and to set you before His glory blameless in exultation."

Paul in his writings emphasized the keeping power of God's Spirit in Ephesians 1:13-14: "In whom also after having heard the Word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also, after having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance, for redemption of the possession, for the praise of His glory."

He states again in Ephesians 4:30, "And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God in whom you were sealed for the day of redemption." Probably one of the most powerful Scriptures of God's keeping power is Romans 8:38-39: "For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor powers, nor any thing which has come, nor things coming, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

The only way a person can be saved is by a spiritual birth from God; and the only way a person can keep his salvation is through the keeping power of God.

Page 1.

Thanks Jimbob. Briefly, referring to your points in these two pages.

a. Acts 2:17-20. If we note from verse 8, the peoples of surrounding nations heard these men speak in their languages, which they had not learned. Then Peter gave them his message: 'what you're hearing is God pouring out His Spirit on men, to which Joel spoke about"in the last days, I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh". This was the beginning of the Last Days & it has been ever since Jesus left this Earth & sent out His promised Spirit. And "they shall prophesy" as well. But the culmination of these Last Days is what you read in verses 19 & 20. And yes, the Comforter was promised to abide with us (the blood-bought Church) forever. But what happens when the Church is no longer here - and that "forever" day has arrived?

b. Ephesians 1:13 & Revelation 7:3,4 are not the same sealing, by virtue of that act & what is imparted. In the former, it is clearly the Holy Spirit Who seals the believer "Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory (v14)". He marks His Own, He is the "earnest of our inheritance" (Gk. arrabon = an advance part-payment guaranteeing our security), "until the redemption of the purchased possession" (the Holy Spirit remains in us & secures the believer until the redemptive work at the Cross is fully realized, i.e. Christ indeed fully paid the ransom for our redemption - but completed redemption is only realized until the body is returned back to our Redeemer: Romans 8:22,23).

In the Revelation 7:3,4 account, we are not told what the seal is & how it's applied; at least it seems to be a forehead mark (the Lord's imprint, unlike the false Christ's signature). If one should read this mark to be the Holy Spirit on their foreheads or His indwelling that results in an outward marking, then I have no other comment. All I can glean is that the world is now devoid of the Spirit's Presence & Work.

Page 1.

Yes Jimbob, I would be happy to & will try to be succinct. Though I should mention that the meaning of the Great Tribulation, or Day of the Lord, needs to be clarified first. I understand, as you do, that the time of the outpouring of God's Wrath upon the World can be understood as the Great Tribulation, but I see the final week (7 years) of Daniel's seventy weeks, 490 years: Daniel 9:24-27, as the final seven years - years that will change the World's existence & future forever. And by the way, you believe in a post-trib rapture & I understand that as being before God's Wrath poured out. I view this position to be one of mid-trib for the reason I've shared above, but that's not the point here.

Now my Scriptures for a pre-trib (or, pre-Day of the Lord) rapture:

a. the Church is a mystery ( Ephesians 1:1-13), by which believing Jew & Gentile are united into one Body ( Ephesians 2:11-22). Therefore, the Church's translation is not mentioned in the OT that deals with Christ's Second Coming after the Tribulation, & why the Church is promised deliverance before the time of God's Wrath ( 1 Thessalonians 1:9,10; 1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10).

b. the 70th week in Daniel, is the preparation of Israel's restoration & regeneration ( Deuteronomy 4:29-30; Jeremiah 30:4-11; Ezekiel 20:22-44; Ezekiel 22:13-22).

c. the Tribulation (including anti-Christ's reign) is not for the Church, but for those who are in the world ( Revelation 3:10; 8:13; 11:10; 13:8,12,14; 17:2,8). The Church is never seen here & will not participate in Israel's time of trouble.

it actually says ".......as with a woman.....but does not clearly point to women with women ----- why?

Elizabeth,

For the believer, Jesus is our hope ( 1 Timothy 1:1), He is our peace ( Ephesians 2:14), He is the light of the world ( John 8:12), He is the good shepherd who gave His life for His sheep (All those who have surrendered their life to Him ( John 10:11), He is the head of the church ( Ephesians 1:22), He is the only one who sets us free from our sin ( John 8:36), He is our redeemer ( Job 19:25), He is the only atoning sacrifice for our sin ( 1 John 4:10), He is the Savior of those who receive Him ( Luke 2:11, John 1:12), He is the creator of all things ( Colossians 1:16-17, John 1:1-3), He is the word of God, and He is God ( John 1:1, Isaiah 9:6), He is our only way to salvation ( John 10:9, John 14:6).

There are many, many more descriptors in the Bible that tell us who Jesus is, but it would take many more posts to list them all.

Leviticus 18:22Leviticus 18:22 (KJV)

22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. Leviticus 18:22 (KJV)

Hopes this helps you

Leviticus 18:22

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Leviticus 20:13

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Romans 1:21-28

21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

These are few verses maybe they will help.

I am looking for the scripture that talks about men that love other men and woman that love other women, and how it's an abonation before God

Page 2.

The apostle revealed to the Corinthians a Mystery (that which was unknown to men before - now revealed: 1 Corinthians 15:51). As was the mystery in Romans 11:25 (that Israel's blindness in part was for the fullness of the Gentiles salvation); in Ephesians 1:9,10 (God's Will that He would bring together to be one, all who are in Christ); Ephesians 5:32 (as husband & wife are one flesh, so is the union of Christ & His Church); Colossians 1:26,27; & many other examples. All indicating that what was revealed to the Corinthians in 1 Corinthians 15:51 was unknown before, which Paul was revealing now: that the believer's death was not a requirement for the resurrection (which was once believed), but that those who are alive at Jesus' Coming will also rise with the dead, to be with Him.

The one in Christ won't face the Wrath of God that was meant for those who spurned His Love shown in Christ, and that both those who have died in Christ & are alive in Him will together be taken away, it seems clear that the Rapture must happen before the Great Tribulation. But if one believes that the Great Tribulation is not God's Anger poured out, then it could well be believed that Christians living at that time will suffer (or, in some way protected) from the devastation that is to take place. If I take the Scriptures together, I cannot subscribe to a post-tribulation Rapture.

Page 1.

To this I would agree U4YAH, that some, maybe many, are led to Christ, reciting the "sinners prayer", told that their salvation is secure & then left to their own devices. Maybe nothing of the Spirit's regeneration Work, of holy living, of Satan's wily ways, of staying in the Word & prayer & of Christian fellowship, would be shared. It is: "you are saved brother/sister - press on in the joy of the Lord". What change, if any, took place in that confessing sinner? What teaching, including water baptism, was given in follow up & nurturing? We are accountable to not only how we treat God's Word, but also how we apply it & share it, even to sinners seeking salvation.

Which leads me to an important matter that we differ on. I believe that the regeneration work (or, re-birth) done in the believer is a present Work of the Holy Spirit. It can't be a re-birth if we haven't died first (Nicodemus was thinking this way that he had to die & be born again from the womb), nor can it be a re-birth at the time of the body's resurrection or entrance into Glory; it's too late, the decision for Christ & being sealed by the Holy Spirit ( Ephesians 1:13,14) has to be made while breath is still in the body - no repentance nor re-birth after death - only a heavenly reception or certain judgement ( Hebrews 9:27).

If a person is truly saved & regenerated by the Holy Spirit, he will know it. And I'm not talking about the grass looking greener or the birds singing more sweetly, it is the new life, new power, new hope, new confidence, & most of all, an absolute pure devotion to the Lord Who did it all & paid it all for him. Can such a person then desire to fool around with sin, doubt his salvation, or even entertain other gods of this world in his life? Even if he is tempted to do so, wouldn't the Spirit within check him immediately that he should go no further - & if he disobeys, then a stronger measure taken? See Page 2.

Wonderful work you're doing can you make Corrections for instance in Ephesians and throughout the entire Bible there is no Lord that was put in later it was meant to say love love is a power source for all humanity and it's just has to be taught on how to obtain it and it's done by saying I am love that I am and every cell in your body knows what you are

The epistles were written to the people that came from the book of Acts. They were the people that were water baptized in Jesus name & received the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:38 is the gospel. It is the New Testament salvation message.

Therefore Ephesians 1:13-14 is not written to the world, nor to the sinner UNTIL YOU HAVE OBEYED THE GOSPEL MESSAGE. It is written to the saints that obeyed this gospel.

We must first read the 4 gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke & John then read the entire book of Acts. Acts is where the church was born.

So many people say they have the Holy Ghost & they do not. So many people think they are saved & sadly, they are not. Who is teaching you? Who are you listening to?

The epistles from Romans thru Jude are to be followed once you have obeyed the salvation Acts 2:38.

You do not receive the Holy Ghost once you believe. It took me close to 3 years to receive the Holy Ghost & with the utterance.

Acts 19, "He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, we have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost".

Do not jump into the epistles until you have read the beginning of each chapter. The epistles {letters} are written to the born again churches. Written to the saints. They obeyed the gospel which is the death, burial & resurrection of Jesus Christ.

For example many people preach John 3:16, however you must read the very beginning of John 3 before John 3:16. One verse does not make a doctrine.

Pray that we will not be deceived. False doctrine is out there.

Pray for discernment.

Quailifying statement: I meant to say the individual experience of God's presence depends on their spiritual state. Ephesians 1:13-14 shows how we are "sealed with the Spirit" if we know Christ. The verse "we will make our dwelling place with them" ( John 14:23). But for the wicked the wrath of God abides on him ( John 3:36).

That should be a good starting point at least on scriptures answering your question.

Agape; Rich P

1John 4:18,

Colossians 3:21, Colossians 3:8,

Psalms 37, Ecclesiastes 7:9, Psalms 37:8, Proverbs 15:18,

Ephesians 4:26,

Psalms 103:8,9, Psalms 145:8,

If you look up fear in search option on site it pulls up 13 pages,

Hopefully helpful

What are the best verses about dealing with fear and anger?

Hi Renee.

We learn a lot about the 24 elders Revelation 5:9-10.

And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast REDEEMED US TO GOD BY THY BLOOD out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

And hast made us unto our God KINGS AND PRIESTS: and we shall REIGN ON THE EARTH.

1) We know they were redeemed.

2) They were made Kings and priests.

3) They shall reign on earth.

I believe this represents the Church.

Here's why.

They were redeemed out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation. Ephesians 1:7.

They were made kings and Priests.

1st Peter 1:9.

These kings and Priests shall reign on earth.

Revelation 1:5-6.

And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

I hope this helps.

God bless.

Hi Pondee69. Are you thinking of a particular Scripture that says that 'our lives were predestined'? The main ones that come to mind are in Romans 8:29: ("For whom he (i.e. God) did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren").

And Ephesians 1:5,11: ("Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will...In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will").

In both these Scriptures, the Apostle Paul speaks about God predestining lives according to His Foreknowledge. Since every life that comes into the World has been given by the Creator of life, He also has all knowledge of how that life will be lived & how & when that life will be extinguished. For those who have come to faith in Christ Jesus, those verses assure us that according to God's foreknowledge of that person's life's path, He predestined some to come into His family, increasingly being conformed to His Son's Person (i.e. by the Power of the Holy Spirit).

But does God predestine lives to live & behave in a certain way, even if we don't want to go down that path? I would say No. God leaves us to live according to our determination & we will be responsible for our decisions. We are a free moral agency & the Bible is replete with examples. Such as Cain in Genesis 4; he had a choice about the type of offering or his manner of offering it. God told him that it was his decision - though God knew the outcome with him.

In Deuteronomy 30:19, the Israelites were told to make a choice; they were encouraged to choose the right one, but it was their decision. God doesn't force His Hand upon us - we are all responsible for our choices in life. But if we belong to God, then His Spirit will always guide us to what is right - yet we can still disobey Him.

The earth is the Lord's and the fulness thereof. 1Corinthians 10:26, Psalms 24:1, Psalms 89:11, Psalms 50:12, Ephesians 1:10, Daniel 2:20-22, Genesis 1:28, Luke 9:1, 1Corinthians 15:23-28, John 19:5-11

Proverbs 29:2, Revelation 3:10,

Matthew 28:18, Acts 1:8, Matthew 18:18, Mark 16:17-19

I would agree with your understanding of the Scriptures Eagan, on this matter. Though there are Scriptures that show that the one in Christ is eternally secure ( John 10:27-29; 1 John 5:13; Ephesians 1:13,14; 1 Peter 1:5; and many more), there are also many others verses that seem to show that salvation can be lost & one must work hard in their faith to ensure that they will make it to the end & be accepted.

So, when one considers ALL of the verses pertaining to this subject, somehow it has to be reconciled what Jesus or the other writers are actually saying. Just like whether the Rapture is pre, mid, post, or anything else, we can get into a similar problem. For this one, my underlying Truth is that the Great Tribulation is God's Judgement against the unbelieving Christ-rejecting world, therefore those in Christ will be saved from it.

For Eternal Security, the underlying Truth is the truly repentant soul has come in faith (& nothing else), been regenerated by the Holy Spirit, indwelt by Him, put on a new path towards Heaven, with the Mighty God and His Son being his all-consuming focus & passion & not the world. Can such a person ever be lost again - deciding, 'No, I prefer to follow the world & reject Christ?' We can never know how real another's salvation has been - nor should we ever place ourselves in that position of making such a judgement. Or, whether one's faith is being tested & some errors & backsliding are taking place - to which the Holy Spirit will move, alert, warn or chastise to bring him back. But the fact of the matter is, that 'the Lord knows who are His', He 'knows His sheep & His sheep hear His Voice', and His sheep will obey the Shepherd even if there has to be some stern words & goading.

Thus Galatians 5:22-25 are so important, especially "they THAT ARE Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit." These are the marks of the one truly saved, living for Christ.

Db, 'T Levis' points out: Hebrews 7-10; with titles being: 'Imperfection of Aaronic Priesthood', 'A Better Covenant' & 'A New Covenant', 'Old Covenant's Sanctuary', 'New Covenant Sanctuary' & 'NEW Covenant Sacrifice' & finally 10 w/the title of, 'Fourth WARNING: Danger of Drawing Back'. I pray God grows these seeds we plant & blesses you and yours to continue by also reading: 2Corinthians 5 titled, 'Motivation of the Future Presence of Christ', Ephesians 1:7 'Redeemed by the Son' & Ephesians 2:8-9 'Old Condition: Dead to God' & 'New Condition: Alive to God' then Colossians 2 'Freedom from Enticing Words', 'Freedom from Vain Philosophy', Freedom from Judgement of Men', 'Freedom from Improper Worship', & 'Freedom from the Doctrine of Men'.

*Heavenly Father thank you for your son Jesus. As well as for your unending Love, Forgiveness & Grace. Lord I ask that you be with Db in their time of need & bring them to your truth that we needn't do anything to get to heaven but believe in Him, except Him & thank Him for dying for all sin & Live accordingly to your will Father. We repent (turn to Christ) & are, at that moment, baptized with His Holy Spirit. In your time Lord, not ours, will change our hearts to fit your purpose for our lives so we may know your truth & spread your true word w/Love & Forgiveness to the ends of the earth.! In the name of Jesus Christ, I pray these things to be lifted up to you so Db can know & love you as we do, Amen.

the same grace efficient for us all the souls wot smell like smoke wont look like the struggle the strength as he he as always, amen

3:12

In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him

3:13

Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.

3:14

For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

my input the lord placed in my heart to share speak out in public release statement because there's a grace on my life the release the glory of god!(William murphy) from curses placed on my life lifestyle home corporate careers

the invitation overall the purpose the chosen children to worship god beautiful

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Believing seals you with the Holy Spirit

Ephesians 1:13

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

And to address Jessie's point about the devil believing that is different from the faith we have in believing that Jesus died, was buried and rose again for the remission of our sins. Their belief is not a salvation belief.

James 2:19

"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

There are MANY clear verses that salvation is by faith aloneJesus paid it ALL even after we are saved we will still sin until we die from this flesh. And that is why we are to be as little children.it is easy to be saved even a small child can be saved.

TanyaRachel,

I also believe in eternal security, or as you put it, "Once saved, always saved."

Ephesians 1:14 would also add to the verse you have shared. It says, "Which (or who) is the earnest (or guarantee) of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

It's after we heard, after we believed, we were sealed. We are sealed with the Holy Spirit. He doesn't give us a seal. He is the seal.



He's the mark of ownership and He has sealed the believer so that no spiritual force or otherwise can penetrate their spirit. They've been sealed by the Holy Spirit and filled with the Spirit of Christ.

It's nice to know that in the midst of our weaknesses that the presence of God's Spirit is our guarantee, until the redemption of the purchased possession.



Since redemption means purchased, it is making reference to the coming of Christ, when our redemption will be realized.

We've been purchased and we're sitting at the will call window, so to speak. He hasn't picked us up yet. But when Christ comes, He's going to come for the purchased possession. That's every believer.

Ephesians 4:30 tells us that we are sealed with the Spirit of God "until" Christ comes.



So every believer is preserved. We're being kept for Christ at His coming. That's our guarantee that we are being preserved for Him.

We have eternal life in Christ Jesus. I have eternal life, not based on my human performance, but because Christ lives in me, and He is eternal.