Hi again June 316. As much as your question can generate various opinions, my belief is that if a Christian has truly been born again, having received the Holy Spirit to indwell, sustain & secure him/her, then it is impossible for that person to have God's Spirit abandon him/her for any reason.
It is however true, that if a believer should succumb to the enemy's temptations and does not take remedial action as the Holy Spirit directs, then there will be loss. Not a loss of the Holy Spirit or salvation, but the loss of sweet communion, maybe of some degree of estrangement if sin is allowed to persist, and of the Spirit's intervention by way of warning or discipline. Or the Spirit might even allow that erring soul to taste the depravity of his/her sin, so that they may come to their senses, repent, and be restored; the story of the prodigal son is a good example of a poor choice made and yet, of a waiting loving father who is ready to forgive, receive, and restore ( Luke 15:11-32).
Just a few verses to consider (and there are many more): John 10:26-29; Romans 8:33-39; Ephesians 1:13,14; Ephesians 2:8-10; Philippians 1:6; 1 Peter 1:3-5; Jude 1:24,25.
This is why we often read of the apostles encouraging believers to be on guard against the enemy of our souls, of sin creeping into the life, and not being involved in anything that even smells of sin; Why? Not for salvation's loss, but for suffering under God's Hand of discipline and the pain of estrangement from God.
Why should we entertain anything that breaks our special love relationship with our God & Savior & bring on ourselves sorrow upon sorrow? The Holy Spirit will always alert us when we err and will always bring us back, so salvation cannot be lost. But for those who feel no sorrow or estrangement when they stray, they do not have the Holy Spirit within them and are not saved. But while they have breath, there remains hope if they draw near to God, He will draw near to them. GBU.
The "heart" of the matter: Our fallen nature vs our living hope
1 Peter 1:3-5 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
I mentioned a particular song in the last posting; which has had a profound affect on my heart. I let the writer of it know; that indeed I sense God is going to use it in amazing ways.
Music indeed today is even with Christian artists seems dumbed down and lukewarm. John 16:8 shows that the true influence of the Holy Spirit comes to convict of sin; righteousness nd judgment to come. God's love is overflowing with His Holiness and reminds me anyway whenever it comes of my own wretched state. In the presence of someone Spirit filled I find myself ashamed of myself and am painfully reminded of my own cold heart. THIS is what Agape should do; it demands attention and draws us away from any competing affections. This is no mamby pamby sentiment; I don't intend to be condescending but as some have stated God is a jealous God that brooks no rivals as it were. Lukewarmness therefore has the worst of both worlds; it has all the form of true worship without the substance ( 2 Tim. 3:5); and it leads to legalism without any fear of God and His Holiness. Other forms of following rules of course can lead to someone who is cold hearted but full of outward vigor in what he defines as pursuing holiness. The opposite is anarchy; a free grace sort of careless mindset as to any fruit that the lord of the vineyard expects from those He has planted.
In short; we are all much worse than we can imagine; but thankfully this makes the gift that much more precious of eternal life.
Brother Carleton. Just a little background to help you in your consideration & meditations on this Church at Babylon. Maybe your understanding is that the Apostle Peter was referring to "this little Church" as being in the city of Babylon.
As you would remember that Babylon was destroyed by Cyrus (of Persia) in 539 BC, with only a few folk and structures existing in that region till the 7th Century AD. Peter's reference to it in 1 Peter 5:13 was not about a Church functioning in that city that was sending greetings to the scattered believers in Asia Minor ( 1 Peter 1:1), but he was referring to the city of Rome. His letter was being sent, distributed and read by many of these scattered believers and could quite easily fall into the wrong hands, i.e. the Roman authorities. So, Peter uses this word, Babylon, as a cover for the city of Rome, so as to avoid trouble & persecution from the authorities (at least for the short term; persecution would come later). Peter was living in Rome and very likely connected to this "church at Babylon" during the last decade of his life, and wrote his epistle in 63 AD just before the outbreak of Nero's persecution in 64 AD. It is believed that Peter died three years later.
Hope this snippet of background info will help you picture the situation in Rome at that time, with Peter effectively ministering to the believers gathered there and his tender heart of concern and ministry to other believers scattered elsewhere. Every blessing brother.
"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ"
Baptism connected to salvation
Not just symbolic - a required response of a good conscience
6. 2 Peter 1:5-10 - Add to your faith
"And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue... knowledge... temperance... patience... godliness... brotherly kindness... charity
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall."
Not faith alone - one must add works
Doing these things = assurance of salvation
Summary
Peter preached:
Faith in Jesus as the risen Messiah ( Acts 2:36)
Repentance and water baptism for forgiveness ( Acts 2:38)
Obedience necessary to receive the Holy Ghost ( Acts 5:32)
Sanctification through obedience ( 1 Peter 1:2)
Salvation tied to baptism and holy living ( 1 Peter 3:21, 2 Peter 1:10)
This is in contrast with Paul's message of justification by grace through faith alone ( Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5), not by works.
Here are scriptures where Peter preached a message of repentance, faith in Jesus as Messiah, plus works (obedience, water baptism, etc.)-mainly directed to Israel as part of the "Kingdom Gospel" ( Matthew 4:17), distinct from Paul's "Gospel of the Grace of God" ( Acts 20:24).
Peter's Kingdom Gospel - Repentance, Faith, and Works
1. Acts 2:36-38 - Pentecost sermon
"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Repentance
Water baptism required for remission of sins
Holy Spirit as a result of obedience
2. Acts 3:19-21 - Second temple sermon to Israel
"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord"
Repentance = condition for forgiveness
Tied to future kingdom blessings
3. Acts 5:32
"And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him."
Obedience (works) as a condition to receive the Holy Ghost
4. 1 Peter 1:2
"Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ..."
Election tied to obedience
Sprinkling of blood = cleansing, yet connected with obedient response
Blessings to you. My thoughts on this topic are below:
"If there is one command that we are to follow that would be sufficient and acceptable to God, it would be..."
God's Word has many commands to follow, not just a la carte. Jesus says what the greatest commandment is and it's not that one. If you're saying only one of God's commands are acceptable to God that's like saying God wants you to ignore what HE says. That doesn't make sense. Of course we're to obey all of God's moral commands.
"I am saved no matter what."
That is not what Paul means by having assurance of salvation. God favors the meek, humble, pure in heart. Proverbs 16:18, Matthew 7:21, Proverbs 22:4, James 4:10, Matthew 12:32, 1 Peter 1:5
"The command to follow Him means 24/7, not when we choose to do so or not do so."
Or else, does anything happen or not? Some believe obedience is only a suggestion and optional, like tipping. James 1:21 to the end explains it well.
Song of Solomon 8:6 Set me as a seal upon thine heart, as a seal upon thine arm: for love is strong as death; jealousy is cruel as the grave: the coals thereof are coals of fire, which hath a most vehement flame.
This poetic passage defines; more or less human love and it's capacity to maintain a grip that overwhelmes the soul. We know that our God is a jealous God; therefore He is committed to sealing us until the day of redemption ( Eph. 4:30). Jesus went to the cross; and purchased us with His precious blood ( 1 Peter 1:19). This process; of course keeps us from the depths of hell but also holds us fast in cords of love ( Hosea 11:4).
His own hear His voice ( John 10:27). It is a very simple methodology for determining who are His children and who are not. Anyone that tells you we are all His children clearly hasn't read 1 John. Those passages show that our actions demonstrate our motives and loving our brothers and sisters in the Lord is a major factor. A more basic thing is this; unregenerate man hates God; while the love of Christ is demonstrated in our souls and we can't help the fact or contain the truth of His presence if the Spirit dwells within. There are seasons of rebellion and other things that cause sin and grieve the Spirit but if He isn't living in us then all we can do is regret the consequences of our sin; we can't truly love God. This explains men replacing all sorts of things for the love of God; idols; sensuality; materialism; and perhaps most dangerous humanism. This concept of all man being basically good is the result of the evil fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. We deem unfair God's wrath and judgment yet know that we are guilty and stand condemned before a Holy and righteous judge and king.
There's a lot to unpack here. Basically though sanctification is present with all true believers; the painful process of weeding out all that remains of our old self.
Thank you for your reply. I understand and know the verses you have shared. Many on this site share the same understanding as you, and if we differ, we should be inspired to study, not to prove we are right and you are wrong, but in search of the truth. My understanding is that Jesus was the beginning of the creation of God, in the plan of God, Revelation 3:14.
Jesus was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 1 Peter 1:20. Everything started with Jesus; God, knowing the end from the beginning, says things that have not been as they have been, Romans 4:17.
We should pray and clear our minds of preconceived biases, as Jesus said, "he who has ears to hear, let him hear." John 8:24 is the same with us today, if we do not believe Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, who God sent and He shed His blood and died for us, we will die in our sins, John 3:16, Acts 4:12, Romans 10:9.
Thank you for your reply, I certainly do not mind. I understand that this subject is delicate, and I am blessed to have brothers and sisters on this site willing to discuss it. Revelation is a challenging book, and I am looking forward to Jesse getting through it.
You have listed some exciting verses, and I hope to share my thoughts on them and your post, not to determine who may be right, but rather to view the discussion as a nudge to pray and study. On the verses you listed, John 12:49-50, Jesus is saying the Father gave Him a commandment and what the Father told Him to say, Jesus was obedient.
John 8:28-29, the Pharisees were debating with Jesus who He was, and He said that in verse 28-29 when He is lifted up/crucified, they will know who He is. We see in Matthew 28:54 when Jesus died and those things that happened, the centurion and those who were there greatly feared and said, "Truly this was the Son of God.
John 7:16-19, the gospels, reveal the glory of the Father who sent Jesus; all that Jesus did was accomplished by the Father through the Holy Spirit, with which Jesus was anointed without measure.
In John 4:34, John 5:19, John 5:30, and John 8:26 all say that it is the Father, not Him, on in John 14:10 Jesus was in the Father and the Father was in Him this was from the time Jesus was anointed without measure the Holy Spirit when He was baptized and made the Messiah.
Jesus was and is the Word of God; John 1:14. God was in the flesh in Jesus through the Holy Spirit, just like these verses say. The beginning in John, many understand it as the beginning of creation, my understanding is the beginning of Jesus' ministry, as we see in Mark 1:1, Luke 1:2, and 1 John 1:1.
To me, Jesus was the first in the plan of God, Revelation 3:14, and everything was created in Jesus, not by Him, and all was created for Jesus and the purpose of the Father. Revelation 13:8 and 1 Peter 1:18-21.
John 10:30 I and my Father are one. Should we not consider other verses, John 17:11, John 17:20-23, John 14:28. These verses, Numbers 23:19, John 20:17, 2 Corinthians 11:31, Ephesians 1:3, Ephesians 4:4-6, and 1 Peter 1:3. Then, in Revelation 21:22-23 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. 23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
God wanted to be with His people, He first instructed Moses to build a tabernacle, which was symbolic of Jesus. Jesus was born without sin, not by man but of the seed of a woman whose Father was God. God could dwell in Him. Like the tabernacle, Jesus was holy, not defiled. Jesus became the light of the world, the Shekinah Glory manifested in Him and God again dwelt with man in the flesh of Jesus, to me that is John 1:14.
I do thank you for your reply, and I hope and pray I do not offend anyone who reads what I post; our discussions should only inspire us to study, not to win or demean, if so, we all lose.
I will stop here; I do not want to get ahead of Jesse's work in Revelation. You are always welcome to reply to me GiGi.
The answer to your question is in that thread to the original posting.
The Lord Jesus was ordained to come into the world as the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world (Adam's offense) AND TO REDEEM THAT WHICH WAS LOST before the world begun.
1 Peter 1:19-20.
Ephesians 1:4.
BennymkjeI believe there is nothing that God doesn't know,
God is not confined by time!
EVERY act of God is done by his foreknowledge so I describe him as wise!
God presented his love for all humanity before the world begun.
God gave Adam and Eve dominion over all the earth and to dress the Garden of Eden.
I believe evil existed on the earth, but Adam and Eve had no knowledge of it. (KEEP IN MIND SATAN HAD ALREADY FALLEN AT THIS POINT)
Adam and Eve was naked literally and figuratively (Uncovered or vulnerable to sin with no atonement for sin.)
I believe God put the Tree of knowledge of good and evil to give Adam and Eve a choice to obey Him or disobey Him, knowing they would eat of it. Without a knowledge of evil or transgression there is no sin.
THIS DIDNT CATCH GOD BY SURPRISE!
The Lord Jesus was ordained to come into the world as the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world AND TO REDEEM THAT WHICH WAS LOST before the world begun.
1 Peter 1:19-20.
Ephesians 1:4.
Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. (The plan for Jesus's sacrifice was in place before the world's creation.)
Everlasting life was to never come by the first Adam but by the last. 1 Corinthians 15:45.
You have received good replies. To me, John is addressing those who will believe in the one after him, Jesus. The baptizing with fire in Matthew 3:11 and Luke 3:16 is after we accept and believe in Jesus as our savior and receive the Holy Spirit; we are then baptized with fire to refine us, as silver and gold are refined by fire.
These metals are put in a refining pot and placed over the fire. As the metals are heated, the impurities float to the top and are scooped off by a ladle and discarded, making the gold and silver purer. This fire represents trials and tribulations we go through to strengthen our faith and purify our hearts so that we become more like Christ, our pot is this world we live in.
Here are a few verses you may read: Malachi 3:2-3, Zachariah 13:9, 1 Corinthians 3:13, James 1:2-3, 1 Peter 1:7, 1 Peter 4:12.
There are more, and your search is part of your walk in faith. We must embrace trials and tribulations as signs that we are not alone and can have peace, as Jesus said in John 16:33.
1 Peter 3:15 - But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts:
I have been sanctified by Christ. But what he's saying is, as I live out my life, I am to keep my heart set apart for Him. He has set me apart by coming to live in my spirit. But in my heart, I go in different directions.
Sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, and do it with meekness, that is, openness, and do it with fear, or respect:
Notice that he is telling this to people who are suffering. That's important. While these believing Jews are going through suffering, people are looking at them and wondering why they are living life like they have hope. The word hope in Greek means expectancy. It doesn't mean hope like a wish. It's expectancy. I expect Christ to come. I expect to go be with Him if I should die before He comes.
Peter said in 1 Peter 1:3 that we have been born again into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. So here are these suffering Hebrew believers, and he says get ready to give an answer.
And the word answer in the Greek (APOLOGIAN) is where we get our English word apologetics. Be ready to give a defense. Every believer should be ready to present to people the basis and foundation for their hope of their life in Jesus Christ. So be ready always to give an answer to every man that asks you a reason of the hope that is within you, only do it with openness and respect.
Gigi, I don't know what the population of what the Jews was during the first century, but Historians estimate that the Jewish population within the Roman Empire during Jesus' time (roughly) was between 3 and 6.5 million.
Christianity was treated as a sect from Judaism, and it gradually separated from certain Judaism beliefs.
The church was being persecuted and had services in homes.
Gigi Paul was to take the Gospel to the Gentiles; we're not debating that!
However, that doesn't mean they all became believers.
Yes, Gigi all scripture is written to us but it all don't apply "TO" us.
In our own language we can see clearly the Elect mentioned in 1 Peter 1:2 applies to the scattered Jews mentioned in verse 1.
I don't see how me saying during the time of Peter's letters that the Church was predominantly Jews would cause you to write these 4 pages and then go into the discussion of dispensationalism!!
When examining your posts and quotes such as this one, "
"As to the relation of dispensational doctrine to Peter writing to the diaspora Jews, I do not adhere to the dispensational doctrine that Scripture that us directed to the Jews is not for Gentile Christians. This is not a historic doctrine" .End quote.
"The highlighting of what Peter called them (ELECT!) is what seems to start this debate so let's talk about Israel.
Gigi even if there were only 10 Jews in the Church at that time Peter penned the letter,
I said I suppose Peter is speaking to Jewish believers being that the early church started out with mostly "if not all Jews.
Here's why.
The early Church began in Jerusalem. Not at 1 Peter.
Many Jews turned to Christ after His death upon the cross and His resurrection from the dead.
We see the rapid growth of the Church in Acts 2 "in Jerusalem" where they started! The Lord added to the Church daily.
Multitudes of priests turned to Christ! They were all Jewish!
By the time you get to the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15 the Church "IN JERUSEALEM was all Jews, and 16-18 years passed between the events in Acts 2 (the day of Pentecost) and the Council of Jerusalem described in Acts 15.
The council in Jerusalem in Acts 15 was roughly around 50 AD. Roughly around 20 years after Christ death on the cross.
1 Peter was written around 63 AD and he wrote to the DIASPORA! He addressed them that way in 1 Peter 1:1. Roughly around 30 years after Christ death on the cross. Peter opened the doors for the Gentiles, but his primary message was to the Jews.
The Gentiles eventually grew in numbers due to the Churches Paul set up on his journey but due to slow travel and Paul's often imprisonment we have no way of knowing the numbers before Paul was martyred around 67 AD.
In 70, the local Christians all left Jerusalem and went to Pella, on the other side of the Jordan, where they disappeared. Jerusalem had prestige and was the spiritual center of the Church, but Pella was just one small town out of many!
Antioch became the closest thing to the center of Christianity after the destruction of Jerusalem.
Paul also spent time bearing the Lord's name before Jews also.
In Acts 9:15 we see that Paul was a chosen vessel to bear the Lord's name before the children of Israel as well.
"But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the CHILDREN OF ISRAEL"
1 Peter 1:22 - Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
Seeing you have purified your souls, and it's interesting that this is an Aorist Participle. After your souls have been purified in obeying the truth through the Spirit into an unfeigned, that is, un-hypocritical love of the brethren, a love that is not an act. It's the real thing. See that you love one another with a pure heart fervently:
Now fervently doesn't mean get excited. It means to extend, a pure heart that extends itself, not observation, but you actually extend help to the brethren, and it's out of a pure heart, out of your love and concern for them.
1 Peter 2:1- Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
He says wherefore, or therefore, based upon what he said at the end of Chapter 1, you've been born again by the seed of God which is the word of God, and now you will grow by the same way.
Wherefore laying aside, and in the Greek text that's actually what is called an Aorist Participle, past time. It's literally translated after having laid aside. That shows salvation. And there are five things that are associated with the old life and with salvation. It is interesting that both Paul and Peter used the same language about the old life. They literally say put it off, lay it aside. It's the term for taking off your coat. And it literally means to take it off and just lay it down on the side.
1 Peter 1:8 - Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
Whom having not seen, ye love; That's Christ. We haven't seen Him. In whom, though now you see him not, yet you are believing, you rejoice with a joy unspeakable and full of glory: This is not happiness. He's talking about an inward satisfaction in the midst of a life that's very difficult.
1 Peter 1:13 - Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
Wherefore, that is, because of this, gird up the loins of your mind. That's a phrase that they used to use because the men in those days wore robes, and whenever they had to travel, or run, or do battle, they would pull up the back of the robe up through the legs and around the waist and tie it. And then they would be ready.
So, he's applying it to the mind. Make your mind ready. Be sober. That is, let your mind be sober thinking, not imaginations, or dreams, or fantasies. And hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
1 Peter 1:15 - But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
The word conversation (ANASTROPHE) means lifestyle.
1 Peter 1:16 - Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
Because it is written (from Leviticus 11:44-45), Be ye holy; for I am holy. This is the word for set apart. God only has one motive for what He does. He only has one purpose for what He does. So, he says basically be separated for God's purposes, just like God is. And think soberly and keep your mind ready living and ministering under the grace of Christ.
1 Peter 1:3 - Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
He says blessed is. The word be in the bible is in italics. It's literally blessed is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his abundant mercy has begotten us again, literally a second birth, a birth from above, into a living hope, not lively, but living hope, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. So again, this security. We have a living hope, not a dead religion. But out of His mercy, He has given us a Spiritual birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.
1 Peter 1:7 - That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
The word trial in Verse 7 is different than temptations at the end of Verse 6. Trial means to approve of something after testing. To approve of something after testing, that the approval of your faith which is more precious than gold that's put through the fire, and that you might be found unto the praise and honor and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ.
So again, just like James, he says the testing of your faith is going to produce endurance. God's going to teach you through the sufferings to remain under and to trust Him, so that at the appearing of Jesus Christ, it might be for His praise and honor and glory, as we celebrate the preservation of God's people.
Peter wrote his letters to the Diaspora which is the designation for the Jews who had been displaced from Jerusalem. He wrote 1 Peter around 63 AD and 2 Peter right before 67 AD. 1 Peter was written to warn the believers about the threat against the Church from the outside world. 2 Peter was written to warn the believers about the threat against the Church from inside the church, false teachers, and false teaching. The theme is persecution and suffering, and Peter warns the believing Jews that the persecution against the Church is going to intensify.
1 Peter 1:1 - Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
The word scattered is the Greek word DIASPORA, which is the title and designation for Jews who are displaced from out of Jerusalem and are living in foreign strange countries.
1 Peter 1:2 - Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
He says, elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father. We hear the word elect used a lot. Many major commentators, scholars, and teachers will tell you that the word elect applies to all Christians, that all Christians are elect by God for salvation. But this specific word elect, EKLEKTOS, is a specific designation for Jewish people. They are the elect of God.
If we look at 1 Peter 1:2 and read Peter's introduction here, we might say that Peter is writing to believers here, and so he is calling them the elect. However, he's talking to the Jewish believers. He then says grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. It doesn't give it here, but the word multiplied is actually an Optative Mood in the Greek. It's a wish. May grace and peace be multiplied unto you is what it is literally saying. It's a wish by Peter.
now that i "know" christ's love Ephesians 2:19 Corinthians 3:4-7 and the whole book of Colossians
Shall we analyse?
Remember the song
Christ is the portrait of God - Colossians 1:15
Before he was born
He did justice and in himself he died
Supremacy and thrones are
They are yours - Colossians 1: 16-17
And that thread that broke
From my soul to God - Colossians 1:21
The holy blood sewed
Christ and his lines of love - Colossians 1: 20
And now a man made I
Can in man see God
Have peace, live, walk and be
Made me a friend in his pouring out - John 15:15
When we were targets of God's wrath now we have Peace with God - Romans 5:1
I have a doubt that you probably theologians (formal or deep self-taught), show me if there is something I missed.
to go to church or not to go to church?
1 Thessalonians 5:11, 1 Peter 4:9, Psalms 133:1-3, Galatians 5:13. all these chapters do not speak of the church that is of my generation, Hebrews 10:24-25 this verse speaks of the mutual congregation.
continuing Romans 12:10, Ephesians 4:32, Acts 2:41-47, 1 John 1:6-7, 2 Corinthians 13:11, 1 Peter 1:22, Colossians 3:16, Philippians 2:1-2, John 13:34, Ecclesiastes 4:9-12, Psalm 55:14. I keep reading and re-reading Romans 12 and I wonder if it's in everyday life or gathered with the church.
Paul said in Ephesians Chapter 2, and along with Ephesians Chapter 4 that the Holy Spirit has been given to us as a guarantee until the redemption happens, when Christ comes for us. 1 John 5:18-20 says the one who has been born of God, Satan cannot touch him, because God keeps him. 1 Peter 1:5 says we are those who have been saved by the power of God, and we are kept by the power of God unto salvation.
It's His faithfulness. I'm saved today because I have Christ in me, not because I act a certain way or don't act a certain way. It's because I have Christ in me. And because I have Christ in me, I'm going to make it all the way to the end, no matter what goes on because I'm a child of God.
But some people use that verse, that phrase, that conditional clause, to show that it's possible for someone to lose their salvation. "If you don't make it all the way, you lose your salvation. Or if you quit." But that's an expression of not understanding what salvation is. I'm not saved because I decide I want to be saved. I'm saved because I'm born of the Spirit of God. Now that God's Spirit is in me, if I don't want to be saved, something's got to be done with His Spirit. I hope this makes sense? We can't just quit!
And then you'll have those who will say that if you sin, then you lose your salvation. Well, we've all lost it then, haven't we? If that's the case, nobody is ever going to be saved. Some say that because you say you cannot lose your salvation, you are giving Christians a license to sin, that you can do whatever you want because you're never going to lose your salvation.
Hebrews 4:3 references Psalm 95, which describes the Israelites' journey with Moses through the wilderness, enduring dunes, rocky paths, and scarce food and water. Those who did not remain faithful, trusting in God's promise, did not enter God's rest. This passage stresses faith and the rest God has promised to those who, in faith, overcome the trials of this life filled with challenges, temptations, and struggles.
Revelation 3:5 shows us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. We cannot earn our salvation through our actions; rather, this rest is dependent on accepting the grace and redemption offered in Christ, works that were finished from the foundation of the world.
Revelation 13:7-8 states that all who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. This time is still to come; only true believers will be able to resist this hour of temptation that is foretold in Revelation 3:10. We see this same language in the concept that the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world.
The challenge and reward are found in Revelation 2:7 and Revelation 13:9-10, "He who has ears, let him hear." We can read and study the Bible without grasping the truth of its message for different reasons, truth comes from prayer. Our ears are connected to our eyes; if we cannot hear, we are also blind.
We have these verses to consider.
Before being ordained, Jeremiah 1:5, Acts 13:48, 1 Corinthians 2:7, Ephesians 2:10, Galatians 1:15
The foreknowledge of God, Acts 2:23, Ephesians 3:9, Colossians 1:26-27, 1 Peter 1:2, 1 Peter 1:20
Trust and dependence on the Son of God, believing in His sacrifice on the cross and His resurrection, Romans 5:8-10. Titus 1:2 states that God has promised eternal life to us from before creation, but it is our future hope in Jesus through faith, as seen in Romans 1:16. This hope has been established for us in Jesus before time; this hope is eternal life. It is not seen or enjoyed now; that is not hope, Romans 8:24-25.
Is Jesus praying for just the disciples or also future believers? This was determined before the foundation of the world, as we see in John 14:3, and Paul confirms it in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18. We will see the glory of Christ that the Father has given Him when He returns to establish the kingdom.
Ephesians 1:4 tells us that God chose us in Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world, and salvation was part of God's plan. The word " chose, " from the Greek word eklego, means to pick out for oneself, to choose, elect, or select. God's plan and purpose for humanity was for us to have eternal life in Jesus Christ.
1 Peter 1:19-20 explains that Jesus, through His obedience to the Father and His sinless life as a lamb without blemish and spot, shed His blood for us. This was foreordained before the foundation of the world. The word " foreordained " is derived from the Greek word proginosko, meaning to know beforehand, representing the foreknowledge of God, a plan manifested in the last times for us. Various verses refer to the foundation of the world, meaning from the creation of the earth and humanity.
Matthew 25:34 speaks of the glory in God's plan, in the mind of God, encompassing all things from beginning to end, something we as humans cannot fully comprehend. We see the culmination of this verse in Revelation 20:11-15.
I may be moving back to Pittsburgh soon. My old full time position is available; quite needed to be filled and my friend has an apartment available in the next month or so; however I need to get permission to sell the home that my dad; who has dementia still has as an asset though he is now in a facility. Pray for wisdom as although I plan to help out briefly in a couple weeks the trip across PA is too much for now as the insurance on my home requires I reside here at least once every 30 days. I am praying for clarity and some time frame when I talk with my parents attorney Friday; if I have to sign a renunciation for myself as they seem to indicate I am going to get advice from the attorney I used to work for before signing it.
The Lord surely opens doors and closes them. In my limited wisdom I have learned to be cautious about making any sudden changes. I also am looking for wisdom as to where to attend church; if I move back to where I used to live in Western PA there are several places I have attended previously. It seems where I am attending now the church is waning; although I have several decent friendships here. I am also praying that i will sense the Spirit guiding me as to where I go and the timing.
Surely the time I will have on this forum will be significantly reduced if I move on. I enjoy writing and sense the Lord has given me some abilities to minister here; admittedly at least some of it has just helped me in scripture knowledge googling verses that follow my course of thought on subjects. I will also be candid that the divorce I had over 10 years ago still has left scars on my soul. My walk generally is pitiful and weak; and the last thing I want to do is puff myself up by merely adding up words; or concepts to prove a point or concept.
1 Peter 1:24-25 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower fadeth; But the word of the Lord endureth forever."...
Thank you for both the Greek and Jewish greeting! I am neither Greek nor Jewish, but it is still nice to hear. I thank you also for the reply but I'm afraid my question was not answered. You shared 1 Peter 1:2 with me where we see the word "elect." My question is who are the elect in this verse? Since you sent that verse to me, I was hoping you would be able to share your understanding of the word elect in that particular verse. It is my belief that it is referring to the Jews. Any thoughts?
Also, thank you again for sharing another two great pieces of scripture from Ephesians. I am unable to make the connection on how any of those passages are referring to the elect. There is not one mention of the word elect in any of the verses you've shared, nor is the word found anywhere else in the book of Ephesians.
Again, I do thank you for your time. I look forward to your answer to my question on this word elect in 1 Peter 1:2.
Thank you for reading my post. It is your right to disagree, and I have no issue with that. I do however stand by what I posted. Also, thank you for sharing 1 Peter 1:2. Since you bring up that particular verse, may I ask you who the "Elect" is in Verse 2? Is this word elect referring to Jews, Gentiles, or the church?
Jesse, I absolutely disagree, and scripture does not support your premise that "elect" refers to the Jewish remnant.
1 Peter 1:2,20
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. [20] Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
But the full knowledge of the truth, and this is going to be brought out in this letter that if the truth is being taught, then your life should be in the process of being changed, and your life should be more godly, more God fearing and respecting. If there is no life change and transformation, then Paul's presentation is that it's not the truth.
Thirdly: according to the hope of eternal life. The word hope in Greek ELPIS, doesn't mean hope like a wish, but it means to be expectant for something to happen, expectancy. It's not you wish it would happen, but you expect it to happen.
Peter, in 1 Peter 1:3, he said blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again into a living hope, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. It's a living hope! It's a hope that's alive. It's not a wish. We're looking for the coming of Christ. If we die first, we're looking to be in His presence. We're looking for the hope that Jesus gave us through His resurrection.
Jesus was telling Nicodemus , the Pharisees that he need to be born again in the Spirit of the kingdom of God on earth with the King Messiah Jesus Christ. Born again was for the Jews to take notice of there new kingdom.
John 3:3
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
In the four gospels, Jesus told Nicodemus to be born in the word and the Holy Spirit to receive Salvation.
John 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
The water is the word .
1 Peter 1:23
Beingbornagain, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
The Twelve Disiples never knew that Jesus Christ was going to die for all our sins and be buried and rise again for our Salvation, they wanted there King Messiah on earth ruling.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Begotten Son is nothing new, it's talking about the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ but it was hid in God.
Psalm 2:7
I will declare the decree: theLordhath said unto me, Thou art mySon; this day have Ibegottenthee.
Apostle Paul never speaks about being born again, it's a Israel thing for the kingdom on earth, the New Jerusalem.
It is however true, that if a believer should succumb to the enemy's temptations and does not take remedial action as the Holy Spirit directs, then there will be loss. Not a loss of the Holy Spirit or salvation, but the loss of sweet communion, maybe of some degree of estrangement if sin is allowed to persist, and of the Spirit's intervention by way of warning or discipline. Or the Spirit might even allow that erring soul to taste the depravity of his/her sin, so that they may come to their senses, repent, and be restored; the story of the prodigal son is a good example of a poor choice made and yet, of a waiting loving father who is ready to forgive, receive, and restore ( Luke 15:11-32).
Just a few verses to consider (and there are many more): John 10:26-29; Romans 8:33-39; Ephesians 1:13,14; Ephesians 2:8-10; Philippians 1:6; 1 Peter 1:3-5; Jude 1:24,25.
This is why we often read of the apostles encouraging believers to be on guard against the enemy of our souls, of sin creeping into the life, and not being involved in anything that even smells of sin; Why? Not for salvation's loss, but for suffering under God's Hand of discipline and the pain of estrangement from God.
Why should we entertain anything that breaks our special love relationship with our God & Savior & bring on ourselves sorrow upon sorrow? The Holy Spirit will always alert us when we err and will always bring us back, so salvation cannot be lost. But for those who feel no sorrow or estrangement when they stray, they do not have the Holy Spirit within them and are not saved. But while they have breath, there remains hope if they draw near to God, He will draw near to them. GBU.
1 Peter 1:3-5 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
I mentioned a particular song in the last posting; which has had a profound affect on my heart. I let the writer of it know; that indeed I sense God is going to use it in amazing ways.
Music indeed today is even with Christian artists seems dumbed down and lukewarm. John 16:8 shows that the true influence of the Holy Spirit comes to convict of sin; righteousness nd judgment to come. God's love is overflowing with His Holiness and reminds me anyway whenever it comes of my own wretched state. In the presence of someone Spirit filled I find myself ashamed of myself and am painfully reminded of my own cold heart. THIS is what Agape should do; it demands attention and draws us away from any competing affections. This is no mamby pamby sentiment; I don't intend to be condescending but as some have stated God is a jealous God that brooks no rivals as it were. Lukewarmness therefore has the worst of both worlds; it has all the form of true worship without the substance ( 2 Tim. 3:5); and it leads to legalism without any fear of God and His Holiness. Other forms of following rules of course can lead to someone who is cold hearted but full of outward vigor in what he defines as pursuing holiness. The opposite is anarchy; a free grace sort of careless mindset as to any fruit that the lord of the vineyard expects from those He has planted.
In short; we are all much worse than we can imagine; but thankfully this makes the gift that much more precious of eternal life.
Agape; Rich P
As you would remember that Babylon was destroyed by Cyrus (of Persia) in 539 BC, with only a few folk and structures existing in that region till the 7th Century AD. Peter's reference to it in 1 Peter 5:13 was not about a Church functioning in that city that was sending greetings to the scattered believers in Asia Minor ( 1 Peter 1:1), but he was referring to the city of Rome. His letter was being sent, distributed and read by many of these scattered believers and could quite easily fall into the wrong hands, i.e. the Roman authorities. So, Peter uses this word, Babylon, as a cover for the city of Rome, so as to avoid trouble & persecution from the authorities (at least for the short term; persecution would come later). Peter was living in Rome and very likely connected to this "church at Babylon" during the last decade of his life, and wrote his epistle in 63 AD just before the outbreak of Nero's persecution in 64 AD. It is believed that Peter died three years later.
Hope this snippet of background info will help you picture the situation in Rome at that time, with Peter effectively ministering to the believers gathered there and his tender heart of concern and ministry to other believers scattered elsewhere. Every blessing brother.
5. 1 Peter 3:21
"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ"
Baptism connected to salvation
Not just symbolic - a required response of a good conscience
6. 2 Peter 1:5-10 - Add to your faith
"And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue... knowledge... temperance... patience... godliness... brotherly kindness... charity
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall."
Not faith alone - one must add works
Doing these things = assurance of salvation
Summary
Peter preached:
Faith in Jesus as the risen Messiah ( Acts 2:36)
Repentance and water baptism for forgiveness ( Acts 2:38)
Obedience necessary to receive the Holy Ghost ( Acts 5:32)
Sanctification through obedience ( 1 Peter 1:2)
Salvation tied to baptism and holy living ( 1 Peter 3:21, 2 Peter 1:10)
This is in contrast with Paul's message of justification by grace through faith alone ( Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5), not by works.
Peter's Kingdom Gospel - Repentance, Faith, and Works
1. Acts 2:36-38 - Pentecost sermon
"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Repentance
Water baptism required for remission of sins
Holy Spirit as a result of obedience
2. Acts 3:19-21 - Second temple sermon to Israel
"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord"
Repentance = condition for forgiveness
Tied to future kingdom blessings
3. Acts 5:32
"And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him."
Obedience (works) as a condition to receive the Holy Ghost
4. 1 Peter 1:2
"Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ..."
Election tied to obedience
Sprinkling of blood = cleansing, yet connected with obedient response
see page 2
"If there is one command that we are to follow that would be sufficient and acceptable to God, it would be..."
God's Word has many commands to follow, not just a la carte. Jesus says what the greatest commandment is and it's not that one. If you're saying only one of God's commands are acceptable to God that's like saying God wants you to ignore what HE says. That doesn't make sense. Of course we're to obey all of God's moral commands.
"I am saved no matter what."
That is not what Paul means by having assurance of salvation. God favors the meek, humble, pure in heart. Proverbs 16:18, Matthew 7:21, Proverbs 22:4, James 4:10, Matthew 12:32, 1 Peter 1:5
"The command to follow Him means 24/7, not when we choose to do so or not do so."
Or else, does anything happen or not? Some believe obedience is only a suggestion and optional, like tipping. James 1:21 to the end explains it well.
Chastening vs. wrath
Song of Solomon 8:6 Set me as a seal upon thine heart, as a seal upon thine arm: for love is strong as death; jealousy is cruel as the grave: the coals thereof are coals of fire, which hath a most vehement flame.
This poetic passage defines; more or less human love and it's capacity to maintain a grip that overwhelmes the soul. We know that our God is a jealous God; therefore He is committed to sealing us until the day of redemption ( Eph. 4:30). Jesus went to the cross; and purchased us with His precious blood ( 1 Peter 1:19). This process; of course keeps us from the depths of hell but also holds us fast in cords of love ( Hosea 11:4).
His own hear His voice ( John 10:27). It is a very simple methodology for determining who are His children and who are not. Anyone that tells you we are all His children clearly hasn't read 1 John. Those passages show that our actions demonstrate our motives and loving our brothers and sisters in the Lord is a major factor. A more basic thing is this; unregenerate man hates God; while the love of Christ is demonstrated in our souls and we can't help the fact or contain the truth of His presence if the Spirit dwells within. There are seasons of rebellion and other things that cause sin and grieve the Spirit but if He isn't living in us then all we can do is regret the consequences of our sin; we can't truly love God. This explains men replacing all sorts of things for the love of God; idols; sensuality; materialism; and perhaps most dangerous humanism. This concept of all man being basically good is the result of the evil fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. We deem unfair God's wrath and judgment yet know that we are guilty and stand condemned before a Holy and righteous judge and king.
There's a lot to unpack here. Basically though sanctification is present with all true believers; the painful process of weeding out all that remains of our old self.
Thank you for your reply. I understand and know the verses you have shared. Many on this site share the same understanding as you, and if we differ, we should be inspired to study, not to prove we are right and you are wrong, but in search of the truth. My understanding is that Jesus was the beginning of the creation of God, in the plan of God, Revelation 3:14.
Jesus was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 1 Peter 1:20. Everything started with Jesus; God, knowing the end from the beginning, says things that have not been as they have been, Romans 4:17.
We should pray and clear our minds of preconceived biases, as Jesus said, "he who has ears to hear, let him hear." John 8:24 is the same with us today, if we do not believe Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, who God sent and He shed His blood and died for us, we will die in our sins, John 3:16, Acts 4:12, Romans 10:9.
God bless,
RLW
Part 1
Thank you for your reply, I certainly do not mind. I understand that this subject is delicate, and I am blessed to have brothers and sisters on this site willing to discuss it. Revelation is a challenging book, and I am looking forward to Jesse getting through it.
You have listed some exciting verses, and I hope to share my thoughts on them and your post, not to determine who may be right, but rather to view the discussion as a nudge to pray and study. On the verses you listed, John 12:49-50, Jesus is saying the Father gave Him a commandment and what the Father told Him to say, Jesus was obedient.
John 8:28-29, the Pharisees were debating with Jesus who He was, and He said that in verse 28-29 when He is lifted up/crucified, they will know who He is. We see in Matthew 28:54 when Jesus died and those things that happened, the centurion and those who were there greatly feared and said, "Truly this was the Son of God.
John 7:16-19, the gospels, reveal the glory of the Father who sent Jesus; all that Jesus did was accomplished by the Father through the Holy Spirit, with which Jesus was anointed without measure.
In John 4:34, John 5:19, John 5:30, and John 8:26 all say that it is the Father, not Him, on in John 14:10 Jesus was in the Father and the Father was in Him this was from the time Jesus was anointed without measure the Holy Spirit when He was baptized and made the Messiah.
Jesus was and is the Word of God; John 1:14. God was in the flesh in Jesus through the Holy Spirit, just like these verses say. The beginning in John, many understand it as the beginning of creation, my understanding is the beginning of Jesus' ministry, as we see in Mark 1:1, Luke 1:2, and 1 John 1:1.
To me, Jesus was the first in the plan of God, Revelation 3:14, and everything was created in Jesus, not by Him, and all was created for Jesus and the purpose of the Father. Revelation 13:8 and 1 Peter 1:18-21.
See part 2
John 10:30 I and my Father are one. Should we not consider other verses, John 17:11, John 17:20-23, John 14:28. These verses, Numbers 23:19, John 20:17, 2 Corinthians 11:31, Ephesians 1:3, Ephesians 4:4-6, and 1 Peter 1:3. Then, in Revelation 21:22-23 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. 23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
God wanted to be with His people, He first instructed Moses to build a tabernacle, which was symbolic of Jesus. Jesus was born without sin, not by man but of the seed of a woman whose Father was God. God could dwell in Him. Like the tabernacle, Jesus was holy, not defiled. Jesus became the light of the world, the Shekinah Glory manifested in Him and God again dwelt with man in the flesh of Jesus, to me that is John 1:14.
I do thank you for your reply, and I hope and pray I do not offend anyone who reads what I post; our discussions should only inspire us to study, not to win or demean, if so, we all lose.
I will stop here; I do not want to get ahead of Jesse's work in Revelation. You are always welcome to reply to me GiGi.
God bless,
RLW
The answer to your question is in that thread to the original posting.
The Lord Jesus was ordained to come into the world as the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world (Adam's offense) AND TO REDEEM THAT WHICH WAS LOST before the world begun.
1 Peter 1:19-20.
Ephesians 1:4.
BennymkjeI believe there is nothing that God doesn't know,
God is not confined by time!
EVERY act of God is done by his foreknowledge so I describe him as wise!
God presented his love for all humanity before the world begun.
Thanks for responding.
(The tree of knowledge of good and evil)
Here is my viewpoint.
God gave Adam and Eve dominion over all the earth and to dress the Garden of Eden.
I believe evil existed on the earth, but Adam and Eve had no knowledge of it. (KEEP IN MIND SATAN HAD ALREADY FALLEN AT THIS POINT)
Adam and Eve was naked literally and figuratively (Uncovered or vulnerable to sin with no atonement for sin.)
I believe God put the Tree of knowledge of good and evil to give Adam and Eve a choice to obey Him or disobey Him, knowing they would eat of it. Without a knowledge of evil or transgression there is no sin.
THIS DIDNT CATCH GOD BY SURPRISE!
The Lord Jesus was ordained to come into the world as the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world AND TO REDEEM THAT WHICH WAS LOST before the world begun.
1 Peter 1:19-20.
Ephesians 1:4.
Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. (The plan for Jesus's sacrifice was in place before the world's creation.)
Everlasting life was to never come by the first Adam but by the last. 1 Corinthians 15:45.
There may be different views on this.
God bless.
You have received good replies. To me, John is addressing those who will believe in the one after him, Jesus. The baptizing with fire in Matthew 3:11 and Luke 3:16 is after we accept and believe in Jesus as our savior and receive the Holy Spirit; we are then baptized with fire to refine us, as silver and gold are refined by fire.
These metals are put in a refining pot and placed over the fire. As the metals are heated, the impurities float to the top and are scooped off by a ladle and discarded, making the gold and silver purer. This fire represents trials and tribulations we go through to strengthen our faith and purify our hearts so that we become more like Christ, our pot is this world we live in.
Here are a few verses you may read: Malachi 3:2-3, Zachariah 13:9, 1 Corinthians 3:13, James 1:2-3, 1 Peter 1:7, 1 Peter 4:12.
There are more, and your search is part of your walk in faith. We must embrace trials and tribulations as signs that we are not alone and can have peace, as Jesus said in John 16:33.
God bless,
RLW
1 Peter 3:15 - But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts:
I have been sanctified by Christ. But what he's saying is, as I live out my life, I am to keep my heart set apart for Him. He has set me apart by coming to live in my spirit. But in my heart, I go in different directions.
Sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, and do it with meekness, that is, openness, and do it with fear, or respect:
Notice that he is telling this to people who are suffering. That's important. While these believing Jews are going through suffering, people are looking at them and wondering why they are living life like they have hope. The word hope in Greek means expectancy. It doesn't mean hope like a wish. It's expectancy. I expect Christ to come. I expect to go be with Him if I should die before He comes.
Peter said in 1 Peter 1:3 that we have been born again into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. So here are these suffering Hebrew believers, and he says get ready to give an answer.
And the word answer in the Greek (APOLOGIAN) is where we get our English word apologetics. Be ready to give a defense. Every believer should be ready to present to people the basis and foundation for their hope of their life in Jesus Christ. So be ready always to give an answer to every man that asks you a reason of the hope that is within you, only do it with openness and respect.
Sorry for my delayed response. Busy work week.
Part 1.
Gigi, I don't know what the population of what the Jews was during the first century, but Historians estimate that the Jewish population within the Roman Empire during Jesus' time (roughly) was between 3 and 6.5 million.
Christianity was treated as a sect from Judaism, and it gradually separated from certain Judaism beliefs.
The church was being persecuted and had services in homes.
Gigi Paul was to take the Gospel to the Gentiles; we're not debating that!
However, that doesn't mean they all became believers.
Yes, Gigi all scripture is written to us but it all don't apply "TO" us.
In our own language we can see clearly the Elect mentioned in 1 Peter 1:2 applies to the scattered Jews mentioned in verse 1.
I don't see how me saying during the time of Peter's letters that the Church was predominantly Jews would cause you to write these 4 pages and then go into the discussion of dispensationalism!!
When examining your posts and quotes such as this one, "
"As to the relation of dispensational doctrine to Peter writing to the diaspora Jews, I do not adhere to the dispensational doctrine that Scripture that us directed to the Jews is not for Gentile Christians. This is not a historic doctrine" .End quote.
"The highlighting of what Peter called them (ELECT!) is what seems to start this debate so let's talk about Israel.
Gigi even if there were only 10 Jews in the Church at that time Peter penned the letter,
It was to those scattered 10 Jews.
See Part 2
I said I suppose Peter is speaking to Jewish believers being that the early church started out with mostly "if not all Jews.
Here's why.
The early Church began in Jerusalem. Not at 1 Peter.
Many Jews turned to Christ after His death upon the cross and His resurrection from the dead.
We see the rapid growth of the Church in Acts 2 "in Jerusalem" where they started! The Lord added to the Church daily.
Multitudes of priests turned to Christ! They were all Jewish!
By the time you get to the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15 the Church "IN JERUSEALEM was all Jews, and 16-18 years passed between the events in Acts 2 (the day of Pentecost) and the Council of Jerusalem described in Acts 15.
The council in Jerusalem in Acts 15 was roughly around 50 AD. Roughly around 20 years after Christ death on the cross.
1 Peter was written around 63 AD and he wrote to the DIASPORA! He addressed them that way in 1 Peter 1:1. Roughly around 30 years after Christ death on the cross. Peter opened the doors for the Gentiles, but his primary message was to the Jews.
The Gentiles eventually grew in numbers due to the Churches Paul set up on his journey but due to slow travel and Paul's often imprisonment we have no way of knowing the numbers before Paul was martyred around 67 AD.
In 70, the local Christians all left Jerusalem and went to Pella, on the other side of the Jordan, where they disappeared. Jerusalem had prestige and was the spiritual center of the Church, but Pella was just one small town out of many!
Antioch became the closest thing to the center of Christianity after the destruction of Jerusalem.
Paul also spent time bearing the Lord's name before Jews also.
In Acts 9:15 we see that Paul was a chosen vessel to bear the Lord's name before the children of Israel as well.
"But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the CHILDREN OF ISRAEL"
God bless.
1 Peter 1:22 - Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
Seeing you have purified your souls, and it's interesting that this is an Aorist Participle. After your souls have been purified in obeying the truth through the Spirit into an unfeigned, that is, un-hypocritical love of the brethren, a love that is not an act. It's the real thing. See that you love one another with a pure heart fervently:
Now fervently doesn't mean get excited. It means to extend, a pure heart that extends itself, not observation, but you actually extend help to the brethren, and it's out of a pure heart, out of your love and concern for them.
1 Peter 2:1- Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
He says wherefore, or therefore, based upon what he said at the end of Chapter 1, you've been born again by the seed of God which is the word of God, and now you will grow by the same way.
Wherefore laying aside, and in the Greek text that's actually what is called an Aorist Participle, past time. It's literally translated after having laid aside. That shows salvation. And there are five things that are associated with the old life and with salvation. It is interesting that both Paul and Peter used the same language about the old life. They literally say put it off, lay it aside. It's the term for taking off your coat. And it literally means to take it off and just lay it down on the side.
1 Peter 1:8 - Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
Whom having not seen, ye love; That's Christ. We haven't seen Him. In whom, though now you see him not, yet you are believing, you rejoice with a joy unspeakable and full of glory: This is not happiness. He's talking about an inward satisfaction in the midst of a life that's very difficult.
1 Peter 1:13 - Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
Wherefore, that is, because of this, gird up the loins of your mind. That's a phrase that they used to use because the men in those days wore robes, and whenever they had to travel, or run, or do battle, they would pull up the back of the robe up through the legs and around the waist and tie it. And then they would be ready.
So, he's applying it to the mind. Make your mind ready. Be sober. That is, let your mind be sober thinking, not imaginations, or dreams, or fantasies. And hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
1 Peter 1:15 - But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
The word conversation (ANASTROPHE) means lifestyle.
1 Peter 1:16 - Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
Because it is written (from Leviticus 11:44-45), Be ye holy; for I am holy. This is the word for set apart. God only has one motive for what He does. He only has one purpose for what He does. So, he says basically be separated for God's purposes, just like God is. And think soberly and keep your mind ready living and ministering under the grace of Christ.
1 Peter 1:3 - Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
He says blessed is. The word be in the bible is in italics. It's literally blessed is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his abundant mercy has begotten us again, literally a second birth, a birth from above, into a living hope, not lively, but living hope, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. So again, this security. We have a living hope, not a dead religion. But out of His mercy, He has given us a Spiritual birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.
1 Peter 1:7 - That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
The word trial in Verse 7 is different than temptations at the end of Verse 6. Trial means to approve of something after testing. To approve of something after testing, that the approval of your faith which is more precious than gold that's put through the fire, and that you might be found unto the praise and honor and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ.
So again, just like James, he says the testing of your faith is going to produce endurance. God's going to teach you through the sufferings to remain under and to trust Him, so that at the appearing of Jesus Christ, it might be for His praise and honor and glory, as we celebrate the preservation of God's people.
(1 Peter Part 1):
Peter wrote his letters to the Diaspora which is the designation for the Jews who had been displaced from Jerusalem. He wrote 1 Peter around 63 AD and 2 Peter right before 67 AD. 1 Peter was written to warn the believers about the threat against the Church from the outside world. 2 Peter was written to warn the believers about the threat against the Church from inside the church, false teachers, and false teaching. The theme is persecution and suffering, and Peter warns the believing Jews that the persecution against the Church is going to intensify.
1 Peter 1:1 - Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
The word scattered is the Greek word DIASPORA, which is the title and designation for Jews who are displaced from out of Jerusalem and are living in foreign strange countries.
1 Peter 1:2 - Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
He says, elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father. We hear the word elect used a lot. Many major commentators, scholars, and teachers will tell you that the word elect applies to all Christians, that all Christians are elect by God for salvation. But this specific word elect, EKLEKTOS, is a specific designation for Jewish people. They are the elect of God.
If we look at 1 Peter 1:2 and read Peter's introduction here, we might say that Peter is writing to believers here, and so he is calling them the elect. However, he's talking to the Jewish believers. He then says grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. It doesn't give it here, but the word multiplied is actually an Optative Mood in the Greek. It's a wish. May grace and peace be multiplied unto you is what it is literally saying. It's a wish by Peter.
Shall we analyse?
Remember the song
Christ is the portrait of God - Colossians 1:15
Before he was born
He did justice and in himself he died
Supremacy and thrones are
They are yours - Colossians 1: 16-17
And that thread that broke
From my soul to God - Colossians 1:21
The holy blood sewed
Christ and his lines of love - Colossians 1: 20
And now a man made I
Can in man see God
Have peace, live, walk and be
Made me a friend in his pouring out - John 15:15
When we were targets of God's wrath now we have Peace with God - Romans 5:1
I have a doubt that you probably theologians (formal or deep self-taught), show me if there is something I missed.
to go to church or not to go to church?
1 Thessalonians 5:11, 1 Peter 4:9, Psalms 133:1-3, Galatians 5:13. all these chapters do not speak of the church that is of my generation, Hebrews 10:24-25 this verse speaks of the mutual congregation.
continuing Romans 12:10, Ephesians 4:32, Acts 2:41-47, 1 John 1:6-7, 2 Corinthians 13:11, 1 Peter 1:22, Colossians 3:16, Philippians 2:1-2, John 13:34, Ecclesiastes 4:9-12, Psalm 55:14. I keep reading and re-reading Romans 12 and I wonder if it's in everyday life or gathered with the church.
Thank you very much!
Hebrews 3:6 Continued:
Paul said in Ephesians Chapter 2, and along with Ephesians Chapter 4 that the Holy Spirit has been given to us as a guarantee until the redemption happens, when Christ comes for us. 1 John 5:18-20 says the one who has been born of God, Satan cannot touch him, because God keeps him. 1 Peter 1:5 says we are those who have been saved by the power of God, and we are kept by the power of God unto salvation.
It's His faithfulness. I'm saved today because I have Christ in me, not because I act a certain way or don't act a certain way. It's because I have Christ in me. And because I have Christ in me, I'm going to make it all the way to the end, no matter what goes on because I'm a child of God.
But some people use that verse, that phrase, that conditional clause, to show that it's possible for someone to lose their salvation. "If you don't make it all the way, you lose your salvation. Or if you quit." But that's an expression of not understanding what salvation is. I'm not saved because I decide I want to be saved. I'm saved because I'm born of the Spirit of God. Now that God's Spirit is in me, if I don't want to be saved, something's got to be done with His Spirit. I hope this makes sense? We can't just quit!
And then you'll have those who will say that if you sin, then you lose your salvation. Well, we've all lost it then, haven't we? If that's the case, nobody is ever going to be saved. Some say that because you say you cannot lose your salvation, you are giving Christians a license to sin, that you can do whatever you want because you're never going to lose your salvation.
Part 7.
Hebrews 4:3 references Psalm 95, which describes the Israelites' journey with Moses through the wilderness, enduring dunes, rocky paths, and scarce food and water. Those who did not remain faithful, trusting in God's promise, did not enter God's rest. This passage stresses faith and the rest God has promised to those who, in faith, overcome the trials of this life filled with challenges, temptations, and struggles.
Revelation 3:5 shows us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. We cannot earn our salvation through our actions; rather, this rest is dependent on accepting the grace and redemption offered in Christ, works that were finished from the foundation of the world.
Revelation 13:7-8 states that all who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. This time is still to come; only true believers will be able to resist this hour of temptation that is foretold in Revelation 3:10. We see this same language in the concept that the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world.
The challenge and reward are found in Revelation 2:7 and Revelation 13:9-10, "He who has ears, let him hear." We can read and study the Bible without grasping the truth of its message for different reasons, truth comes from prayer. Our ears are connected to our eyes; if we cannot hear, we are also blind.
We have these verses to consider.
Before being ordained, Jeremiah 1:5, Acts 13:48, 1 Corinthians 2:7, Ephesians 2:10, Galatians 1:15
The foreknowledge of God, Acts 2:23, Ephesians 3:9, Colossians 1:26-27, 1 Peter 1:2, 1 Peter 1:20
Predestination, Acts 4:27-28, Romans 8:29-30, Ephesians 1:5, Ephesians 1:10-12
God's plan.
2 Kings 19:25, Psalm 33:11, Isaiah 14:27, Isaiah 22:11, Isaiah 25:1, Isaiah 37:26, Isaiah 46:10, Jeremiah 29:11.
See last part 8
Part 6
Trust and dependence on the Son of God, believing in His sacrifice on the cross and His resurrection, Romans 5:8-10. Titus 1:2 states that God has promised eternal life to us from before creation, but it is our future hope in Jesus through faith, as seen in Romans 1:16. This hope has been established for us in Jesus before time; this hope is eternal life. It is not seen or enjoyed now; that is not hope, Romans 8:24-25.
Is Jesus praying for just the disciples or also future believers? This was determined before the foundation of the world, as we see in John 14:3, and Paul confirms it in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18. We will see the glory of Christ that the Father has given Him when He returns to establish the kingdom.
Ephesians 1:4 tells us that God chose us in Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world, and salvation was part of God's plan. The word " chose, " from the Greek word eklego, means to pick out for oneself, to choose, elect, or select. God's plan and purpose for humanity was for us to have eternal life in Jesus Christ.
1 Peter 1:19-20 explains that Jesus, through His obedience to the Father and His sinless life as a lamb without blemish and spot, shed His blood for us. This was foreordained before the foundation of the world. The word " foreordained " is derived from the Greek word proginosko, meaning to know beforehand, representing the foreknowledge of God, a plan manifested in the last times for us. Various verses refer to the foundation of the world, meaning from the creation of the earth and humanity.
Matthew 25:34 speaks of the glory in God's plan, in the mind of God, encompassing all things from beginning to end, something we as humans cannot fully comprehend. We see the culmination of this verse in Revelation 20:11-15.
See part 7.
The Lord surely opens doors and closes them. In my limited wisdom I have learned to be cautious about making any sudden changes. I also am looking for wisdom as to where to attend church; if I move back to where I used to live in Western PA there are several places I have attended previously. It seems where I am attending now the church is waning; although I have several decent friendships here. I am also praying that i will sense the Spirit guiding me as to where I go and the timing.
Surely the time I will have on this forum will be significantly reduced if I move on. I enjoy writing and sense the Lord has given me some abilities to minister here; admittedly at least some of it has just helped me in scripture knowledge googling verses that follow my course of thought on subjects. I will also be candid that the divorce I had over 10 years ago still has left scars on my soul. My walk generally is pitiful and weak; and the last thing I want to do is puff myself up by merely adding up words; or concepts to prove a point or concept.
1 Peter 1:24-25 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower fadeth; But the word of the Lord endureth forever."...
Thank you for both the Greek and Jewish greeting! I am neither Greek nor Jewish, but it is still nice to hear. I thank you also for the reply but I'm afraid my question was not answered. You shared 1 Peter 1:2 with me where we see the word "elect." My question is who are the elect in this verse? Since you sent that verse to me, I was hoping you would be able to share your understanding of the word elect in that particular verse. It is my belief that it is referring to the Jews. Any thoughts?
Also, thank you again for sharing another two great pieces of scripture from Ephesians. I am unable to make the connection on how any of those passages are referring to the elect. There is not one mention of the word elect in any of the verses you've shared, nor is the word found anywhere else in the book of Ephesians.
Again, I do thank you for your time. I look forward to your answer to my question on this word elect in 1 Peter 1:2.
God Bless!!!
Thank you for reading my post. It is your right to disagree, and I have no issue with that. I do however stand by what I posted. Also, thank you for sharing 1 Peter 1:2. Since you bring up that particular verse, may I ask you who the "Elect" is in Verse 2? Is this word elect referring to Jews, Gentiles, or the church?
Thanks again!
1 Peter 1:2,20
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. [20] Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Titus 1:1 Continued:
But the full knowledge of the truth, and this is going to be brought out in this letter that if the truth is being taught, then your life should be in the process of being changed, and your life should be more godly, more God fearing and respecting. If there is no life change and transformation, then Paul's presentation is that it's not the truth.
Thirdly: according to the hope of eternal life. The word hope in Greek ELPIS, doesn't mean hope like a wish, but it means to be expectant for something to happen, expectancy. It's not you wish it would happen, but you expect it to happen.
Peter, in 1 Peter 1:3, he said blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again into a living hope, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. It's a living hope! It's a hope that's alive. It's not a wish. We're looking for the coming of Christ. If we die first, we're looking to be in His presence. We're looking for the hope that Jesus gave us through His resurrection.
Jesus was telling Nicodemus , the Pharisees that he need to be born again in the Spirit of the kingdom of God on earth with the King Messiah Jesus Christ. Born again was for the Jews to take notice of there new kingdom.
John 3:3
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
In the four gospels, Jesus told Nicodemus to be born in the word and the Holy Spirit to receive Salvation.
John 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
The water is the word .
1 Peter 1:23
Beingbornagain, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
The Twelve Disiples never knew that Jesus Christ was going to die for all our sins and be buried and rise again for our Salvation, they wanted there King Messiah on earth ruling.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Begotten Son is nothing new, it's talking about the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ but it was hid in God.
Psalm 2:7
I will declare the decree: theLordhath said unto me, Thou art mySon; this day have Ibegottenthee.
Apostle Paul never speaks about being born again, it's a Israel thing for the kingdom on earth, the New Jerusalem.
Ray, in Christ Jesus 1 Corinthians 15:1-4