Some say that a Christian can one day decide they no longer want to be a Christian and just walk away, fall away, or defect from Christ. But if this is true, what happens to the Spirit of Christ that indwells the believer?
At the point of salvation, God's Spirit comes into a person's spirit, and they become a new creation in Christ. Jesus says He will never leave us, nor forsake us, so if a person chooses to walk away, where does His Spirit go? It doesn't make much sense to believe that Jesus will leave us when He says the opposite.
When a person receives Christ, they are given the gift of the Holy Spirit, and they are sealed with the Spirit forever. Those who believe in eternal security (which I am one) see this sealing as a guarantee of our salvation and inheritance. The only one who can break this seal is the One who did the sealing. A seal marks ownership. It is Christ who owns us. He purchased us. He redeemed us. We cannot break the seal, only Christ (God) can break it. So, if one chooses to "walk away," guess what? That person is still sealed with the Spirit. Christ isn't going anywhere.
Please consider Ephesians 1:13-14. Once we place our trust in Christ, once we believe, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. We have the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession. Again, we are purchased. Christ purchased us. He sealed us and only He can break the seal. Ephesians 4:30 tells us that we are sealed with the Spirit of God "until" Christ comes.
Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"
I think one of the Christian band in Australia recently had a member denounce the faith. Ken Copeland was probably a legit follower originally but now looks demon possessed. Same with Duplantis, Osteen, and most others who have greed in their heart. If someone has the freewill to choose to follow Jesus why would they be forbidden to have freewill to unfollow? Many will be deceived.
Matthew 24:13 "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."
It says endure to the end, not endure to the beginning or middle when you prayed to start following Christ. It doesn't say you can sin and hurt people and stop following Jesus and commit blasphemy still be saved regardless of your obedience. Some just focus on one verse while ignoring all the other verses.
Thank you for your message. Thank you for sharing these two verses. Hebrews 10:26 says if we receive the knowledge of the truth. Please notice it doesn't say if we receive Christ. It's only knowledge we receive. Does knowledge save a person? If I meet a non-believer on the street, and I preach Jesus to him/her, and I tell them that the only way they can be saved from their sin is to receive Jesus, they now have the knowledge of the truth, but does that knowledge save them? The answer to that is no. If someone receives the knowledge of the truth (the gospel message of salvation), and they sin willfully after receiving that knowledge, what this is saying is that there is no other way for them to be saved, no other sacrifice that will atone for their sin.
I'm sorry, but in no way does this verse teach that salvation can be lost. What the writer is saying is that you have been given the knowledge of the truth, the gospel of salvation, and that if you choose to sin willfully after receiving this knowledge, there is no other sacrifice for your sin. Going back into Judaism will not save you!
These men you mention, I am very well aware of. I do not follow them nor do I trust them.
To your question asking that "If someone has the freewill to choose to follow Jesus why would they be forbidden to have freewill to unfollow?"
If there is one command that we are to follow that would be sufficient and acceptable to God, it would be the command Jesus gave to His disciples where He says, "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me."
The command in this verse is "follow me." That's the command. The command to follow Him means 24/7, not when we choose to do so or not do so. However, as you alluded to, we do have free will and we can choose to disobey the command. But if we do so, will He not chastise us and bring us back into submission?
In Matthew 24:13, the literal translation from the Greek text is "but the one who HAS ENDURED, not the one who will, but the one who has endured unto the end, this one will be saved.
In the Greek, it's what's called an Aorist Participle. It shows the proof of those who are saved. The person who is saved WILL endure to the end.
I am not one who believes that I can "stop following Jesus, commit blasphemy, and still be saved regardless of my obedience, so I do hope you are not referring to my belief.
I believe in eternal security. I believe my salvation is permanent because God is a righteous judge, He has provided a way for me to be saved, He sent His Son to pay for my sin, and when I received Jesus, I have been justified, declared not guilty!
Now, I am fully away that this does not give me a license to sin because I am saved no matter what. Those who believe salvation cannot be lost often get accused of thinking that they can sin all they want to because they are saved no matter what, but I can say to you that I do not think that way at all. In fact, one way to find out if I truly belong to Christ would be to put it to the test and go out and start sinning and try going back to the same sinful lifestyle before I received Christ. If there's no conviction, no guilt, then I suppose I need to start taking inventory!
And yes, I agree that just focusing on one verse only to come to a conclusion on any biblical teaching is not wise and would border on the edge of heresy!
Blessings to you. My thoughts on this topic are below:
"If there is one command that we are to follow that would be sufficient and acceptable to God, it would be..."
God's Word has many commands to follow, not just a la carte. Jesus says what the greatest commandment is and it's not that one. If you're saying only one of God's commands are acceptable to God that's like saying God wants you to ignore what HE says. That doesn't make sense. Of course we're to obey all of God's moral commands.
"I am saved no matter what."
That is not what Paul means by having assurance of salvation. God favors the meek, humble, pure in heart. Proverbs 16:18, Matthew 7:21, Proverbs 22:4, James 4:10, Matthew 12:32, 1 Peter 1:5
"The command to follow Him means 24/7, not when we choose to do so or not do so."
Or else, does anything happen or not? Some believe obedience is only a suggestion and optional, like tipping. James 1:21 to the end explains it well.
As you said, it is true that God's Word has many commands to follow, not just a la carte. How many commands are there and do you follow all of them?
You may have misunderstood what I said when I wrote "If there is one command that we are to follow that would be sufficient and acceptable to God, it would be the command Jesus gave to His disciples where He says, "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me."
First of all, no, I am NOT saying that only one of God's commands are acceptable to God. If you notice the words "if" and "it would be," that's much different than saying (there is) only one command that we are to follow, and that is the command Jesus gave to follow Him. It's funny how a two-letter word changes everything. Hopefully this helps in understanding the point I was trying to make.
When Jesus said "follow me," that was a command. Do you think it's possible for a believer to follow Christ while simultaneously breaking the commandments of God? What does it mean to you personally to follow Christ?
Please, tell me, what is the greatest commandment you speak of? I'm guessing you are going to tell me that thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength, and Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. If so, please tell me what the command is.
You quoted only part of my post where it says, "they are saved no matter what," only you misquoted me by saying "I am saved no matter what," and then you go on to tell me that is not what Paul means by having assurance of salvation.
Please re-read what I said. What I said was "Those who believe salvation cannot be lost often get accused of thinking that they can sin all they want to because they are saved no matter what."
Please, I respectfully ask that if you are going to quote me, please include the entire statement, not just a part of it and then go on to correct me by telling me what Paul says. In case you missed it, I went on to say that I do not think that way at all.
You say that "some believe obedience is only a suggestion and optional, like tipping." I have yet to meet a brother or sister in Christ who believes that obedience to Christ is optional. Do you know anyone who believes that way?
Thanks for sharing James 1:21 which literally reads, "On account of which, after having put off all filthiness and abundance of evil, in meekness receive the implanted Word, the one being able to save your souls."
Hello dear "T-rex" in peace, nice and see that you are here with us. For guidance and encouragement. This is a very relevant topic. Because it talks about sin. I think how hard it is to condemn myself. I can hardly see it, or it may take a long time for it to become apparent. Could it come from the Holy Spirit? So why is it so obvious that a sin is a sin? But we know that sin is not judged by degree. Sin is sin. If Jesus says He is the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. Joh 14:6 Then we can also see that the Father is not involved in this context. Jesus is the one who will judge the living and the dead. Acts 10:42
I don't think the work of salvation is difficult at all. And in my mind we have one way to death and that is to deny the Lord Jesus whom God sent to us. And it is good with admonitions and warnings that we must walk on the narrow path. Because Jesus says so himself. Joh 7:21-23 Why does the Lord say this? What does He want us to do?
But God who had given up hope for us all because our sin ascended to Heaven. Had to do something drastic. Therefore He had to send His own Son. Because He wanted everyone to be saved through Him whom He sent. Then we have those who talk excessively about sin, many confuse people with manic thinking. (Manic is a spirit of confusion, which spreads as easily as bitterness). When the Lord Himself wants us to be free. For the Spirit helps us not to sin truly, the Spirit never wants us to give up the spirit, then it will lead to death. As long as there is life there is hope, also for those who have allowed all kinds of evil. Here then grace comes in and the Holy Spirit will constantly try and remind the chosen ones that there is grace upon grace. Belive in Jesus.
I don't want this to create a "cry of outrage." But I expect some backlash anyway. "smilesign". See here what Jesus says: John 8:31-36 The slave here is what leads to death. The Jews didn't see Jesus, right? Love u in Christ.
Thank you, Jesse. I certainly believe one can't " lose" his salvation once one has accepted the Lord Jesus as personal Savior, but I always like to back up my beliefs with scripture. A Methodist friend seems to believe you can lose it, but I argue that you may lose much of your rewards in eternal life, but once you've been sealed with Christ, He's not walking away and you don't lose your salvation ! Thanks, again. Bob.
I am sorry for not responding sooner. I thank you for your kind message. Amen! As long as Christ is in us, we are secure. And He has promised to never leave. Yes, as believers, we will stand before the Bema Seat Judgement of Christ. We will be judged, but not for salvation. We will be judged on our response to Christ, the things we did as believers. That which we do under the influence and persuasion of His Spirit, we will be rewarded for. Everything else that was not of Christ will burn, but we ourselves will be saved!
Thanks again, Jesse. Ephesians 1 and 4:30 helped a lot. When I espouse a point of view I always feel I must back it up with the Word, or it will look like it's just my opinion. God bless you my brother. . Bob.
(Part 1):
Some say that a Christian can one day decide they no longer want to be a Christian and just walk away, fall away, or defect from Christ. But if this is true, what happens to the Spirit of Christ that indwells the believer?
At the point of salvation, God's Spirit comes into a person's spirit, and they become a new creation in Christ. Jesus says He will never leave us, nor forsake us, so if a person chooses to walk away, where does His Spirit go? It doesn't make much sense to believe that Jesus will leave us when He says the opposite.
When a person receives Christ, they are given the gift of the Holy Spirit, and they are sealed with the Spirit forever. Those who believe in eternal security (which I am one) see this sealing as a guarantee of our salvation and inheritance. The only one who can break this seal is the One who did the sealing. A seal marks ownership. It is Christ who owns us. He purchased us. He redeemed us. We cannot break the seal, only Christ (God) can break it. So, if one chooses to "walk away," guess what? That person is still sealed with the Spirit. Christ isn't going anywhere.
Please consider Ephesians 1:13-14. Once we place our trust in Christ, once we believe, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. We have the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession. Again, we are purchased. Christ purchased us. He sealed us and only He can break the seal. Ephesians 4:30 tells us that we are sealed with the Spirit of God "until" Christ comes.
I think one of the Christian band in Australia recently had a member denounce the faith. Ken Copeland was probably a legit follower originally but now looks demon possessed. Same with Duplantis, Osteen, and most others who have greed in their heart. If someone has the freewill to choose to follow Jesus why would they be forbidden to have freewill to unfollow? Many will be deceived.
Matthew 24:13 "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."
It says endure to the end, not endure to the beginning or middle when you prayed to start following Christ. It doesn't say you can sin and hurt people and stop following Jesus and commit blasphemy still be saved regardless of your obedience. Some just focus on one verse while ignoring all the other verses.
(Part 1):
Thank you for your message. Thank you for sharing these two verses. Hebrews 10:26 says if we receive the knowledge of the truth. Please notice it doesn't say if we receive Christ. It's only knowledge we receive. Does knowledge save a person? If I meet a non-believer on the street, and I preach Jesus to him/her, and I tell them that the only way they can be saved from their sin is to receive Jesus, they now have the knowledge of the truth, but does that knowledge save them? The answer to that is no. If someone receives the knowledge of the truth (the gospel message of salvation), and they sin willfully after receiving that knowledge, what this is saying is that there is no other way for them to be saved, no other sacrifice that will atone for their sin.
I'm sorry, but in no way does this verse teach that salvation can be lost. What the writer is saying is that you have been given the knowledge of the truth, the gospel of salvation, and that if you choose to sin willfully after receiving this knowledge, there is no other sacrifice for your sin. Going back into Judaism will not save you!
These men you mention, I am very well aware of. I do not follow them nor do I trust them.
To your question asking that "If someone has the freewill to choose to follow Jesus why would they be forbidden to have freewill to unfollow?"
If there is one command that we are to follow that would be sufficient and acceptable to God, it would be the command Jesus gave to His disciples where He says, "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me."
The command in this verse is "follow me." That's the command. The command to follow Him means 24/7, not when we choose to do so or not do so. However, as you alluded to, we do have free will and we can choose to disobey the command. But if we do so, will He not chastise us and bring us back into submission?
[Comment Removed]
[Comment Removed]
(Part 2):
In Matthew 24:13, the literal translation from the Greek text is "but the one who HAS ENDURED, not the one who will, but the one who has endured unto the end, this one will be saved.
In the Greek, it's what's called an Aorist Participle. It shows the proof of those who are saved. The person who is saved WILL endure to the end.
I am not one who believes that I can "stop following Jesus, commit blasphemy, and still be saved regardless of my obedience, so I do hope you are not referring to my belief.
I believe in eternal security. I believe my salvation is permanent because God is a righteous judge, He has provided a way for me to be saved, He sent His Son to pay for my sin, and when I received Jesus, I have been justified, declared not guilty!
Now, I am fully away that this does not give me a license to sin because I am saved no matter what. Those who believe salvation cannot be lost often get accused of thinking that they can sin all they want to because they are saved no matter what, but I can say to you that I do not think that way at all. In fact, one way to find out if I truly belong to Christ would be to put it to the test and go out and start sinning and try going back to the same sinful lifestyle before I received Christ. If there's no conviction, no guilt, then I suppose I need to start taking inventory!
And yes, I agree that just focusing on one verse only to come to a conclusion on any biblical teaching is not wise and would border on the edge of heresy!
"If there is one command that we are to follow that would be sufficient and acceptable to God, it would be..."
God's Word has many commands to follow, not just a la carte. Jesus says what the greatest commandment is and it's not that one. If you're saying only one of God's commands are acceptable to God that's like saying God wants you to ignore what HE says. That doesn't make sense. Of course we're to obey all of God's moral commands.
"I am saved no matter what."
That is not what Paul means by having assurance of salvation. God favors the meek, humble, pure in heart. Proverbs 16:18, Matthew 7:21, Proverbs 22:4, James 4:10, Matthew 12:32, 1 Peter 1:5
"The command to follow Him means 24/7, not when we choose to do so or not do so."
Or else, does anything happen or not? Some believe obedience is only a suggestion and optional, like tipping. James 1:21 to the end explains it well.
(Part 1):
Blessings to you also!
As you said, it is true that God's Word has many commands to follow, not just a la carte. How many commands are there and do you follow all of them?
You may have misunderstood what I said when I wrote "If there is one command that we are to follow that would be sufficient and acceptable to God, it would be the command Jesus gave to His disciples where He says, "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me."
First of all, no, I am NOT saying that only one of God's commands are acceptable to God. If you notice the words "if" and "it would be," that's much different than saying (there is) only one command that we are to follow, and that is the command Jesus gave to follow Him. It's funny how a two-letter word changes everything. Hopefully this helps in understanding the point I was trying to make.
When Jesus said "follow me," that was a command. Do you think it's possible for a believer to follow Christ while simultaneously breaking the commandments of God? What does it mean to you personally to follow Christ?
(Part 2):
Please, tell me, what is the greatest commandment you speak of? I'm guessing you are going to tell me that thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength, and Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. If so, please tell me what the command is.
You quoted only part of my post where it says, "they are saved no matter what," only you misquoted me by saying "I am saved no matter what," and then you go on to tell me that is not what Paul means by having assurance of salvation.
Please re-read what I said. What I said was "Those who believe salvation cannot be lost often get accused of thinking that they can sin all they want to because they are saved no matter what."
Please, I respectfully ask that if you are going to quote me, please include the entire statement, not just a part of it and then go on to correct me by telling me what Paul says. In case you missed it, I went on to say that I do not think that way at all.
You say that "some believe obedience is only a suggestion and optional, like tipping." I have yet to meet a brother or sister in Christ who believes that obedience to Christ is optional. Do you know anyone who believes that way?
Thanks for sharing James 1:21 which literally reads, "On account of which, after having put off all filthiness and abundance of evil, in meekness receive the implanted Word, the one being able to save your souls."
What a great piece of scripture!
Matthew 7:14
"Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."
Matthew 7:15
"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves."
John 15:8
"Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples."
Matthew 7:19
"Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire."
Blessings
I don't think the work of salvation is difficult at all. And in my mind we have one way to death and that is to deny the Lord Jesus whom God sent to us. And it is good with admonitions and warnings that we must walk on the narrow path. Because Jesus says so himself. Joh 7:21-23 Why does the Lord say this? What does He want us to do?
But God who had given up hope for us all because our sin ascended to Heaven. Had to do something drastic. Therefore He had to send His own Son. Because He wanted everyone to be saved through Him whom He sent. Then we have those who talk excessively about sin, many confuse people with manic thinking. (Manic is a spirit of confusion, which spreads as easily as bitterness). When the Lord Himself wants us to be free. For the Spirit helps us not to sin truly, the Spirit never wants us to give up the spirit, then it will lead to death. As long as there is life there is hope, also for those who have allowed all kinds of evil. Here then grace comes in and the Holy Spirit will constantly try and remind the chosen ones that there is grace upon grace. Belive in Jesus.
I don't want this to create a "cry of outrage." But I expect some backlash anyway. "smilesign". See here what Jesus says: John 8:31-36 The slave here is what leads to death. The Jews didn't see Jesus, right? Love u in Christ.
I am sorry for not responding sooner. I thank you for your kind message. Amen! As long as Christ is in us, we are secure. And He has promised to never leave. Yes, as believers, we will stand before the Bema Seat Judgement of Christ. We will be judged, but not for salvation. We will be judged on our response to Christ, the things we did as believers. That which we do under the influence and persuasion of His Spirit, we will be rewarded for. Everything else that was not of Christ will burn, but we ourselves will be saved!
God Bless!!!
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