Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 332

We become the sons of God when we believe the gospel, trusting Christ as savior. Jesus was the only BEGOTTEN son of God. He was begotten of God. He was God in the flesh.

Another way to think of it is that we are brothers/sisters to Jesus Christ because when we believe we are born again. Born of God. Now his son. Hope this makes sense.

Obeying the gospel means believing the gospel. The one true gospel of grace is found in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures. He was buried and rose again on the third day according to the scriptures. When one believes the gospel they are immediately and permanently sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. There's no other way to receive the spirit. The only requirement for salvation is believing the gospel. Trusting Christ did it all for you.

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It is my sense that the Church number was now completed & the Marriage Supper could take place (of course, this is not specifically mentioned). What happened at the Rapture, was an 'harpazo' (snatching away) of the dead, made alive & to be forever with the Lord; nothing akin to a resurrection where saints remain on the Earth, restored & reigning with Christ. So, the question, 'cannot the Rapture of the dead be seen as a resurrection?' In one sense yes, as it clearly is a raising from a state of death, but then we see Matthew 27:50-53; Acts 9:36-43; possibly Acts 20:7-12; (& not to mention the several other personal resurrections in the OT). I see the Rapture of the Church as a specific resurrection to remove believers from the impending Great Tribulation & not part of the General Resurrection (First Resurrection). And 'the shout & the trump'? Maybe, the call to march from Heaven & the command for the saints to rise up to the clouds; something the heavenly host hear & the personal call to those in Christ & none else can hear?

Revelation 1:7: Jesus comes to defeat the enemy armies & the world will behold this spectacular sight. I don't think one can confidently relate the clouds in this verse with the clouds in 1 Thessalonians. Maybe just cloudy days, or specially created clouds for that purpose. Who knows. As well "with clouds" & "in clouds" might be significant, but I wouldn't pursue that. I'm sorry Jimbob that you find so many holes in the "pre-trib theory".

I will admit that most things written of the future can be open to many opinions, simply because we don't get a nice laid out timeline of events. It's a matter of how we put Scriptures together. If wrong in my understanding, so be it - it's just how the Scriptures fall into place for me. Now some believe that the post-trib position involves believers who survive the tribulation & also have to face that time of God's Wrath poured out as well, which neither you nor I believe. That's a plus for us!

Wanda, Gods word is clear that salvation is by grace through faith, not of ourselves, a gift from God, not of works. Ephesians 2:8-9. It also says in 1st John that we can KNOW we have eternal life. The Gospel is in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. Read that. But, Christ died for YOU on the cross shedding his blood for the forgiveness of your sins. He rose again three days later according to the scriptures. Do you believe that? All you have to do to have eternal life is trust Christ. Believe he did it for you. Do you believe it? If yes, then you are saved! Salvation is a free gift offered to you and you receive it by faith. Your belief of the gospel of Jesus Christ is the sole basis of your salvation and the surety you have it forever!

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Appreciate your comments Jimbob & I'll take it from the top.

Revelation 19:7-9. The way I understand the relationship of Jesus Christ to His Church, is that we have already been joined to Him; Ephesians 5:31,32, "For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church." Paul believed that the Church was already joined to Christ - they were one - we were already married. So there's no second marriage planned - only His bride gathered together & being made ready for that great celebration, otherwise called, the "Marriage Supper of the Lamb". Where "the marriage of the Lamb is come" as seen in verse 7, it is in celebration, with the Supper, of the union that had already taken place when the Holy Spirit was given to every believer, joining him/her to Christ. And as His bride was arrayed in fine linen for the celebration, clearly depicts the pure, holy & acceptable state of Christ's spouse, the Church.

Yes, His Army, which includes His bride & probably other angels, do join Him in His descent to Earth. So the question (which you have answered), 'if the bride is with Christ, then where has the Marriage Supper taken place, in Heaven or on Earth?' Your understanding, is in Heaven, "The wedding has taken place and the Bride is now called the "wife". My sense is that the Supper is still to take place; why? The Bride was made ready & arrayed in 'marriage' outfits, Jesus & the Bride (& others) mount their stallions, & join Him in war; and of course, victory is theirs. What comes after this? Revelation 20:1-5 tell us that after Satan is bound in the pit, John saw thrones & those who died under the anti-Christ's pogrom. These saints arose from their graves & presumably Jesus & His army of saints joined them. This is the First Resurrection of Believers. (this paragraph continue onto Page 2.)

Yes ...

We can pray for an end to this war in Ukraine and for the result to be good for Ukraine and our world. Thank you for the reminder. I was thinking to day of posting for people to pray for the war, but here you are, beating me to it. Good job!

Ruby

A mish-mash of Scriptures about fire do not make a Scriptural truth. What you are saying her is not true and will not occur.

Wow! Annonymous.

You are right, he is a false teacher and a controlling. secretive person who is using the members of this congregation for his own pleasure. So sorry your family is caught up in this mess. I will certainly pray for you and your family.

Dear Heavenly Father, we lift up Annonymous and this family to you in the name of Jesus. They need Your intervention in this matter. We ask that You will steer Annonymous' parents to see that this pastor is a wolf and leave this church ASAP. This is a toxic church environment and so we ask that You protect those members against the abuses of this pastor. Please take away this pastor's "mantle" as an overseer, bringing him to a humbling place. Help members to see that he does not speak for you, but for himself and is leading them astray and harming them. We pray that there will be a mass exodus from this church leaving the pastor and his wife high and dry for lack of funds to do as he wills. We pray that he will be taken to task by You and that he will eventually repent and have You direct his life and future. Amen.

Agreed, Chris, thanks for saying this so clearly.

Brother Chris:

You quoted the scripture that said unbelievers were cast into the lake of fire.

I was trying to show you the scriptures that says the THIRD; BELIEVERS, are ALSO also cast into the lake of fire.

God Bless YOU!

Brother Chris:

The seventh seal is the RESURRECTION.

Revelation 8:1 and when the seventh seal was opened, that was silence in heaven for half and hour

Symbolic of the 50 days from Passover to pentecost.

Many are called; FEW are chosen, Christ is the passover lamb, all will be saved from death and the grave, only the THIRD PART; have a part in the first resurrection, and never see death, and will be in the presence of God until the second resurrection, that time is the 1000 year reign, we join the other workers in the vineyard as we are called at different times of the day, the DAY OF THE LORD, now 2000 years. the 1000 are as a DAY.

God Bless YOU!

The spirit that was poured out on that THIRD PART are the ones of the house of JUDAH

Psalms 60:7 ....Judah is my lawgiver ....his JUDGES ...

Psalms 108:8 ....Judah is my lawgiver ......

Genesis 49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet .....

Brother Chris:

Ezekiel 5:2 Thou shall burn with fire a THIRD PART (the called out) in the misdst of THE CITY, when the days of the SIEGE are FULFILLED

Chris you have to go back to Ezekiel chapter 4 to understand the SIEGE of Jerusalem, it's what made all the houses desolate, there was no activity of the Holy Spirit for 430 years.

Then Jesus came to Jerusalem, but they didn't understand, there houses (we are the house of Christ) were left unto them desolate, void of any understanding of the scriptures, because there was no spirit to interpret the scriptures for them, NO ONE UNDERSTOOD until PENECOSTE and the Spirit was poured out, now Jerusalem can understand, but it is not the OLD, it's the NEW JERUSALEM, the mother of us all.

Ezekiel 5:1-5 is talking about those that were chosen to have the Spirit CAUSE THEM ( Ezekiel 36:27) to come to the truth: Christ is calling out a priesthood of the house of JUDAH ( Zechariah 12:7) to JUDGE all those that will be RAISED at the second resurrection.

Ezekiel 5: ....thereof shall a fire COME FORTH into all the house of Israel ....

Prophecy can be inside actual historical events.

God Bless YOU!

How can you be 100% know you have been saved to enter heaven?

thanks

I'm sorry Ruby, I don't see the connection with what I wrote on this point of the "Lake of Fire" & what you wrote (quoting Scriptures), on the 'third part of....'. Revelation 8:7-12, for example, speaks about a third part of trees, grass, sea, fish, ships, rivers, waters, sun, moon & stars being affected at the opening of the seventh Seal, a time when the Wrath of God is poured upon the whole Earth.

Whereas the OT Scriptures you gave allude to Israel's captivity & suffering through it & their restoration (even a third part of them) when they will say "The LORD is my God". Israel is yet to be refined, as passing through God's Fire ( Zechariah 13:9), but it won't be through the Lake of Fire, reserved as the final judgement of eternal torment to all who reject God, where even death & hell will finally be destroyed ( Revelation 20:10-15).

The 'refining fires' of God can come to all us, according to His Will & Purposes for our lives, but at the end, only the Lake of Fire, unlike any other disciplinary measure, will be the ultimate ruin of wicked man & spirit. To make the Lake of Fire (& you haven't suggested this in your comment now), as a refining work to eventually restore all mankind to a state of full spiritual healing & bliss, is totally inconsistent to biblical teaching & correct hermeneutics.

Oh, Benjamin, this is a prayer for many of us! I am happy to pray for this request.

Dear heavenly Father, in the name of Jesus we ask that Your Holy Spirit will give Benjamin and many of us power to restrain our tongue. Help us to be thoughtful and edifying in our speech to others. Teach us how to use our ability to speak for Your glory and for the furtherance of Your kingdom of salvation. Strengthen us to guard our speech and to build one another up in our faith in and love for Jesus, our Savior, Your Son. Amen.

Christina,

Happy birthday "Mom". May God bless her with many more decades of life and health.

Dear Amber,

Praise the Lord for the great work He is doing in you and your husbands life today! I pray that the Holy Spirit within you will

cleanse you of all the past vices, practices, and thoughts that invited into your soul the work of the enemy in many ways. I pray

that He will strengthen you supernaturally to resist the devil and all his works. I pray that Jesus will become more and more

precious to you as He influences you with the Truth of His word and the power of His life, death and resurrection. he is

absolutely necessary for each of us to lay hold of. He is the rock we cling to in times of trouble, our fortress and our deliverer.

Amber, I am so happy that you and your husband have taken hold of God's grace and mercy towards you. It is so wonderful!

May you continue to grow in grace and in the knowledge of Jesus Christ.

Dear Terri, I will pray for Angela,

Dear Heavenly Father, we lift Angela up to You in the name of Jesus, and ask that Your lifegiving power be upon

Angela as she is being treated at the hospital. Bring to Angela all that Terri ask for her. We ask for healing, deliverance from addiction, desire to turn to Jesus to be saved, a healthy outcome to this emergency, best of care from the I.C.U. team that is most likely short staffed on nurses. Amen.

Did anyone watch the Asbury outpouring/revival in Kentucky? I saw many people receive the Holy Ghost w utterance. I sure did. The utterance most certainly is real. You will then walk in Gods power.

The men were preaching Acts 2:38. These were the men surrounded by groups of people outside, preaching them the gospel & the people were hungry for Gods truth. They are feeding the hungry for the Holy Ghost.

I pray that people open their minds & hearts to this truth. If you do not want this truth then it will be hidden from you.

There are so many false preachers out there, & they are the ones on the radio & on the tv, & most people are believing these false teaching.

No one can live for the Lord without the Holy Ghost.

Crucify the flesh daily.

If you want more truth, then fast & pray.

Bible says that we must know who God is & obey the gospel to be saved

We must always be seeking more. Never stop.

Awesome and good

Hi Marty ...Tell your friend that Jesus has died for him at Calvary making a new covenant in his blood for all men....I was found of them that sought me not and made manifest unto them that asked not after me.... Romans 10:20...And this Jesus wants to know him, sowing a good seed in his heart...That is gonna result in a birth of a Baby Christ in him...which is the Child of Promise the H.G...Thats y he has to know us, even in the spiritual realm a birth requires a spritual seed....An intimacy

......Thats y Peter said being bornagain of an incorruptible seed even by the word of God that liveth and abideth forever...The living word which is spirit and life...Thus there is a new heart and a new spirit in our near future...Which is true Holiness....Thats y the woman in Rev 12 :5...is giving birth to the manchild the H.G. that Child of Promise...Which is the regeneration and multiplication of Christ Jesus via his seed the word...ok....That was the great Promise when God swore by himself Gen 22:17...That Christ wd be multiplied as the stars of heaven....Thus the sower and his precious seed...An Israel of God... Gal 6:16....And the Children of PROMISE....The Kingdom....Unless you receive the Kingdom as a lil Child impling that new birth you will in no wise enter there in...There is not a day that goes by that i don't thank GOD for what he did at Calvary...That N.C. by his blood....That all inclusive Covenant....I will know them all from the least to the greatest....And they shall all be taught of God... Jeremiah 31:34....If i be lifted up i will draw all men unto me...Even as Moses lifted up a serpent in the wilderness even so must the Son of man be lifted up... John 3 :14....Every one who beheld that bronze Serpent lived, their snake bite was not fatal...The spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made us free from the law of sin and death... Romans 8 :2....sometimes we get bit but our snake bite is not fatal if we behold the lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world. gb

Thank you lord.

P.2 Thanks again Chris for your reply. The rapture of the church would have to be a resurrection Chris. You even said "The rapture of the Church (i.e. which includes the resurrection of the dead in Christ) The word (resurrection) is #386; it means a standing up again, a resurrection from death, a (moral) recovery (of spiritual truth) raised to life again, rise from the dead, that should rise, rising again. In 1 Thes.4:16-17, These verses are telling us of that resurrection, Right? (16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (This verse tells us the dead in Christ shall rise first, so they are resurrected from their grave, from death, it also tells us its not going to be a (secret) rapture! The Lord descends with ((a shout)), with ((the voice of the archangel)), and ((with the trump of God)). That could not be a secret rapture. Also in Rev.1:7 We are told "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and ((every eye shall see him)),. . Then v.(17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be ((caught up together with them in the clouds)), to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (This is the resurrection, and (our bodies will be changed) in the twinkling of an eye. Our bodies will have to change, in 1.Cor.15:50 we are told "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God;. . This is the return of Jesus Christ in the clouds to gather together His elect, the church. Truth is what matters Chris, the more we study and seek His truth the more holes we will find in the pre-tribulation rapture theory. Jesus said in Jn.8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. The word (truth) is #226; it means to be true (in doctrine and profession) speak (tell) the truth. If we allow scripture to interpret scripture it proves there is no pre-tribulation rapture. Thank you again Chris.

P.1 Chris I thank you again for responding. Please understand I mean no disrespect Chris but if we loose the context then we loose the truth. You said of Rev.19:7-9, "Was the supper to take place forthwith, since the Bride was there and ready and waiting? If I had to analyse it, I would say No. The Bride was not altogether there- there were yet more to join them so that the marriage supper could take place". This is adding something that the Word does not say. Rev.19:7-9 is the only place in the Bible that tells us of the marriage supper of the Lamb, so when it says "the marriage of the Lamb IS COME, and his wife hath made herself ready." We have to take it for what it says to keep these verses in context! The word (marriage) is #1062 it means nupials, marriage, wedding. The wedding has taken place and the Bride is now called the "wife". Then you said, "Then in Rev.19:11-21, we see the Lamb, not enjoying this time with His Bride, the Church, but going out to war against the beast, false prophet and those having the beasts mark on them" (This is showing us the return of Christ riding a white horse to judge and make war. In Rev.19:8 speaking of the "wife" "And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in ((fine linen, clean and white)), for the fine linen (is the righteousness of saints). Now lets look at the army that follows Jesus riding white horses in Rev.19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in ((fine linen, white and clean)). The marriage supper of the Lamb is over, Jesus returns (to the earth) riding a white horse with His church, the bride of Christ, His wife to reign for a 1000 years. Then you said "Here is the "first resurrection" of those living in the tribulation days, who rejected the beast and his mark." The word (first) is #4413; it means foremost (in time, place, order or importance) before, beginning, best, chief(-est) first (of all) former. This resurrection is the beginning, the first of all.

WE humanity as all men have been born by the will of some man....Its only our new innerman which is the H.G. The Spirit of Christ that is born by the will of God in us via his good seed....Conception takes place when we hear and understand his voice a spritual pregnancy results....My Lil Children of whom travail in birth again Gal 4 :19...till Christ is formed in you.. Thats what faith is a spritual pregnancy....Thus there is a child on the horizon ...Which is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen....The fetus is the H.G. The Child of Promise...Thats y he always refers to himself as the Son of Man...Mankind has to bring forth fruit unto God... Romans 7:4...Thus there is a baby Christ in our near future....And its this baby Christ the N.C. in his blood that is the Elect and the Church is the Elect lady...Its a bride and bridegroom scenario...Which is gonna result in an Israel of God that is gonna be as the stars of heaven...That was the great Promise that Christ wd be multiplied as the stars of heaven...Thats y Jesus was saying blessed are them that follow me in the Regeneration the multiplication of his seed...Thus the sower and his precious seed...The contents of that book of life in the fathers right hand...The book of life of the lamb...( his blood etc )..That N.C.

Remember Jesus said the good seed are the Children of the Kingdom....Which are the babes and sucklings...Thats y Jesus said a lil Child is gonna lead them which is the H.G....And thats y the spirit of truth cannot speak of himself he is just a spritual infant....Thats y Isaiah tells us of the women with Child and she that travail with Child a great company... Isaiah 11... ... Jeremiah 30:6 Why do i see all men in travail and birth pains...Remember Jeremiah told God he was just a lil Child he cd not speak... Jeremiah 30 :6....Symbolic of the manchild in Rev 12 that is gonna rule all nations....One is neva outa of context when lifting up that N.C.at Calvary in his Blood..

Brother Chris:

In Revelation it is necessary to understand who the THIRD are, they are also killed in the lake of fire.

Revelation 8

Ezekiel 5:1-5

Ezekiel 5:12

Zechariah 13:8-9

Isaiah is full of a destroying fire, that you don't sit before to keep warm.

God Bless YOU

Hiya Jimbob love ya but i disagree a bit...Gods favorite is the seed of Jesus the H.G..Jesus cd not tell us the gift of God is the H.G. IF THE H.G was not his favorite his Chosen..That new Creature which is the H.G is the only thing that availeth any thing in Christ Jesus...Which is our new inner man the H.G.... As Jesus said that which is born of the spirt is spirit which is the H.G. that Child of Promise...Gods Elect....We the Church are the Elect lady the bride...But the H.G. is the Elect bridegroom....As John said he that has the bride is the bridegroom..

There is only 1 promise seed which is the H.G. the good seed ,the living word of Jesus...My words are spirit and life much greater then paper and ink the written word that O.C.

...The written word can be molested and has been molested by many Religions and bibles....But the living word cannot be molested as the living word is God himself... John 1..Its only the living word that Jesus refered to as the Promise seed...

And Jim the scripture cannot always interpret the Scripture..Remember Jesus told Peter that flesh and blood did not reveal it unto you but by my father in Heaven...Which is the spirit...The deep things are hidden from the wise and prudent but only revealed unto the babes...That New Born in our lives the H.G.

If the scripture cd interpret the scripture the High Priest who knew the scripture wd not have instructed the ppl to cry crucify him..In so doing the whole of the levitical Priest hood wd be done away with...The curtain was rent from the top to the bottom....The deep things are hidden from the wise and prudent...They knew the scripture by heart but did not understand that a new covenant was on the horizon....And this N.C.was by his blood...Thus the book of life ( the blood ).... Jeremiah 31:31 I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and Judah...A N.C...And this N.C. is a birthing covenant...We are gona have a baby Christ which is the H.G. the Child of Promise. The son of man.

A seed has to be sown in our hearts for salvation to be born in us... Mat 13 : 18...And that incorruptible seed is the gift of the H.G....Unless the lord of the sabbath had left us a seed....Which is the contents of the book in the fathers right hand...The living word...The book of life ( The O.C. HAD NO SUCH SEED) we wd have been made like unto Sodom and Gomarrah....Thats y Jesus said that which is born of the spirit is spirit which is the H.G. that has to be born in us via his seed the living word...There is a Child in our near future which is the H.G. that Child of Promise....Unless you receive the kingdom of God as a lil Child you will in no wise enter there in...There is a child involved in this N.C....Which is a baby Christ the H.G. The only Child of promise...Which is the multiplication and regeneration of Christ Jesus via his seed in humanity...The field being the world, humanity....But mans carnal mind cannot comprehend these things... They are hid from the wise and prudent only revealed unto the babes and sucklings....Which are the Children of PROMISE...The H.G. The Anointing....That Child of Promise...An Israel of God which is the seed of Christ that is gonna be as the stars of Heaven in multitude...That was the great Promise.

.....The last 2 k yrs have been a time of darkness... Mat 9:4....Jesus said i am the light of the world ( the living word ) but the nite comes when no man can work...And Isaiah says that darkness will cover the earth and gross darkness the ppl....Thats y there is a different Church on every corner....Not 1 of them sees the same Gospel.

.....Thats y God has to send an angel to preach the everlasting gospel to all that dwell on the earth.... Rev 14:6...To every kindred ppl and nation...Which is the Living word the N.C....We are in that time of the great abomination of desolation....your house is left unto you desolate...Mat.24:15...There is a Child on the Horizon which is the H.G.. The gift of God.. our new hearts and spirits..

thank you LORD for your words peace be in Jerusalem and peace in the world

may JESUE CHRIST be praise,

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Mark 13:20 'elect', I believe applies to the elect among Israel, in its context of the chapter. But of course, after the Gospel is brought to the Gentiles, we too join the elect of God ( Colossians 3:12; Titus 1:1; 1 Peter 1:2), but Jesus directed His message to the Jews of His day.

Revelation 13:7,8: are these saints the ones living at the time of revelation of the beast on Earth, or are they the 'new believers' who have turned to Christ, rejecting the beast? And the Lamb's Book of Life, does it record all believers now & into the future, or only adds to the record those who are being saved by the Blood of the Lamb? Moot questions for sure.

Revelation 20:4-6: "This is the first resurrection". The Rapture of the Church (i.e. which includes the resurrection of the dead in Christ) & the resurrection of the tribulation saints are not the same. The Rapture is not a part of the First Resurrection (some have included them together, referring to it as two phases of the one). The Rapture is the catching away of believers to be with the Lord in Glory. The First Resurrection is for the tribulation saints who have died for Christ & will reign with Him through the Millennium. The scenarios are different hence cannot be the same. So, should not the Rapture then be called the First Resurrection? Apparently not, as that is the secret coming of Jesus to take away His Church from the Wrath to come. Blessings.