Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 328

Hallelujah, praise the Lord Jesus son of David.

Ronald Whittemore Thanks for the reply. I'm not really sure of what you are saying about what you believe. I hope you don't mind answering a couple questions? (1st) question. Would you explain what you think 1.Thes.4:17 is saying? (2nd) question. When, and where does the marriage supper of the Lamb take place?

Whether or not you believe in God, this message is a "must-read"!



Throughout time, we can see how we have been strategically conditioned coming to this point where we are on the verge of a cashless society. Did you know that Jesus foretold of this event almost 2,000 years ago?



In the last book of the Bible, Revelation 13:16-18, we read,



"He (the false prophet who deceives many by his miracles-- Revelation 19:20) causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.



Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666."



Speaking to the last generation, this could only be speaking of a cashless society. Why's that? Revelation 13:17 states that we cannot buy or sell unless we receive the mark of the beast. If physical money was still in use, we could buy or sell with one another without receiving the mark. This would contradict scripture that states we need the mark to buy or sell!



These verses could not be referring to something purely spiritual as scripture references two physical locations (our right hand or forehead) stating the mark will be on one "OR" the other. If this mark was purely spiritual, it would indicate both places, or one--not one OR the other!



This is where it really starts to come together. It is amazing how accurate the Bible is concerning the implantable RFID microchip. This is information from a man named Carl Sanders who worked with a team of engineers to help develop this RFID chip:



"Carl Sanders sat in seventeen New World Order meetings with heads-of-state officials such as Henry Kissinger and Bob Gates of the C.I.A. to discuss plans on how to bring about this one-world system. The government commissioned Carl Sanders to design a microchip for iden

The Lord has blessed me using this chapter today, I am remained that God can use any thing, anyone regardless of weakness or no matter how useless it is to solve my problem or do HIS miracle. It does no matter to HIM.

Hi Jimbob,

Thanks for your reply, here is a short version that may explain.

I tried to keep it short, my understanding of scripture is there is not a pre-tribulation rapture, also if rapture means being taken to heaven pre, mid, or post-tribulation, scripture does not support that. Much of that is based on the 70th week in Daniel my understanding has been fulfilled.

In scripture, the gathering of the saint's destination will be in Israel not heaven, when the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled, Luke 21:24, the same place the saints will be when Satan is released Rev. 20:7-10 when the armies of Satan will be devoured with fire. Then the final judgment.

Jesus's second coming is to set up the kingdom and to reign on earth, Rev. 19:11-21. On that day His feet shall stand on the ground from where He left, Acts 1:9 Zech. 14:4.

When Jesus returns, every eye shall see Matt. 24:27 Rev. 1:7 With a great sound of a trumpet, Matt. 24:30-31, At the last trump, 1 Cor. 15:52, With the trump of God, 1 Thes. 4:16, The seventh angel sounded the last trump Rev. 11:15-19.

Then the wrath of God when Jesus returns, Rev. 6:15-17. And as we see in Revelation there are two resurrections, the first, all who are resurrected will reign with Jesus on earth, not heaven.

Hope this makes sense, I understand there are different understandings, but it is good to have a loving and respectful discussion.

God bless,

RLW

Jimbob,

The 1000 year period in Rev 20:2-3 is not a literal 1000 years. It began at the cross when Satan was "bound" so that he "should deceive the nations no more" and ended at the beginning of the Great Tribulation when Satan was "loosed for a little season". The Great Tribulation is the period in which we are living today where God has abandoned the churches and congregation ( 1 Pet 4:17) and God is no longer saving there and where Satan is actually ruling. We are now in a period of the Great Tribulation called the Latter Rain where God is saving a "great multitude which no man can number" ( Rev 7:9) outside of the churches. Once all of God's elect have become saved, Christ will return on the clouds of glory to resurrect / Rapture all True Believers and complete their salvation by giving them their resurrected spiritual bodies, begin Judgment Day when all of the unsaved and this sin cursed earth will be eternally destroyed, and Christ will create New Heavens and a New Earth where all True Believers will live and reign with Christ throughout eternity. God has revealed many teachings during this day regarding the end times, the nature of God's Judgement and Salvation program that have always been in the Bible but sealed until the time of the end. Read Daniel.

I understand this is contrary to the understanding of many and may be disturbing, especially to those that are still in the churches. But it is what I believe the Bible is teaching regarding the end times in which we are living. Please do not believe me. Read and study the Bible.

that chapter is my favorite one in indeed god is evey were it maks me cry evey time i read that chapter i love god with endurance love we are at time judjmentday is coming mater of time be ready borthers and sisters it is on you ?

Ronald Whittlemore you are no intruding at all. After reading your comment I'm still not sure what your belief on the return of Christ is. Do you believe in the pre-tribulation rapture Ronald?

Chris thank you for answering those questions, but that only leads to more questions Chris. How many times, or how many people have you ever heard say "the harvest of the church"? Believing a pre-tribulation rapture forces one to take scripture out of context, and one has to continually try to refit pieces that just will not fit. Thats how we get holes in this belief, it is full of holes Chris. You say the Holy Spirit is the restrainer taken off the earth with all Believers before the tribulation. In Rev.7:9,14,17 we are told a great multitude that no man could number will be saved out of great tribulation. Would that be possible IF the Holy Spirit had been removed before it started? verse 17 tells us of ((those saved out of great tribulation)) "For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne SHALL FEED THEM, and shall lead them unto living fountains of water: and God shall wipe all tears from their eyes. ((When would the Lamb feed them?)) Rev.19:7-9 He will feed them at the marriage supper of the Lamb! We are caught up to meet Him in the clouds so that marriage supper of the Lamb will take place in heaven, and those present were saved ((out of great tribulation)) Now on Mt.24 you said "This descent of Jesus is ultimately to come onto the earth (His 2nd coming) These verses DO NOT say Jesus returns to the earth, v.30 says "and they shall ((see the Son of man coming in the clouds.)) IN THE CLOUDS. Then there's the sound of the trumpet in Mt.24:31 and 1.Thes.4:16. There's no sounding of a trumpet when Christ returns on a white horse, Why? At this return, only the non-believing disobedient ones who were left to face the wrath of God will be on the earth. And this return He comes to judge and make war, He comes to the earth to start His 1000 year reign, which will end the wrath of God. The deeper we get into studying this subject, the more holes are found in the pre-tribulation rapture theory. I pray you see this Chris. Thank you again Chris, I do appreciate it.

I need some bible quotation to deliver me in reading and study bible very well

Thank you for your reply

Chris,

When we talk about the "writings" that are not the Bible itself, that is an entirely different matter. These are not infallible nor necessarily trustworthy.

For example, a commentary or a creed or a confession is the product of man and not the Word of God nor inspired by God. What they are saying may or may not be in accordance with the Bible. The mere fact that they differ greatly on a particular doctrine is proof of that. They must always be checked out from the Bible itself. As would apply to any secular writing.

The Bible ALONE and in its ENTIRETY MUST be our ultimate authority when it comes to understanding what God is teaching.

I want to again state that the Bible ITSELF tells us how we are to approach and interpret the Bible. God is very clear about defining the "Biblical Hermeneutic", as I tried to outline and provide some of the scriptural references in my original post on the subject.

What does the Bible say about making vows to God

Thanks David0920 for the clarification. What drove me to some of the comments I made which you found bewildering, was your statement, "when determining how we are to approach and interpret scripture, we MUST look to the Bible itself and ONLY to the Bible and to the ENTIRE Bible to instruct us." And this I quoted in my response to you.

I made an assumption (which of course does not always guarantee the correct response), that you believed that the Bible was the only Book to be used, to the exclusion of everything else (e.g. lexicons, dictionaries, encyclopedias, etc.). That in the Bible itself we will find all that we need to satisfy our quest for knowledge, & if not found, the Spirit will in time bring us clarity. So obviously, I misunderstood your statement on this aspect, as I recalled others who held a similar position on the sole use of the Bible (sola scriptura) but had talked down any reference to other non-biblical helps, as I mentioned here. Unfortunately, I assumed you too held this position, for which I apologize for my error. Though my understanding of biblical hermeneutics & my example of the interpretation of Hell in the Scriptures, would still stand, as both the sole use of the Bible, alongwith other helps & the Spirit's leading to the right Scriptures, will keep us on the path of correct Bible interpretation.

Onewatchman,

Receiving the Holy Spirit is language that God uses to indicate that moment when God applies His Salvation to our life by performing the miracle of giving us our Resurrected Soul. It is the moment that we become Born Again.

The acts that you mention are WORKS that we do and can never initiate nor cause nor maintain our salvation in anyway whatsoever.

When God has "saved" us we will find in our life an ernest ongoing desire to be obedient to the Law of God, that is the Bible. Our obedience to God's commandments and our repentance from sin will be the RESULT of our Salvation. They are never the CAUSE.

Our Salvation is totally a gift of God's grace. God must do 100% of the work in saving us. We never want to be trusting in anything we do or have done for our salvation.

Chris,

I'm not exactly sure what you are driving at in your last set of comments. But let me respond to a couple of things.

If you are making the point that no Bible translation is perfect, I would certainly agree. Only the original autographs and certain copies which we have in the original languages are without error of any kind.

And if the "tools" to which you are referring are a Concordance or an Interlinear which can assist us in finding where and how each original Hebrew and Greek word is used in the KJV, I absolutely agree that these tools can a should be used by the serious student of the Bible in their study of scripture. And there use is a a requirement for anyone that claims to be a TEACHER of the Bible.

And furthermore, we should be using the best translation available to us. Which in English, I believe, is the KJV. And we should avoid a "paraphrase" version of the Bible like the plague.

Also, as I indicated earlier, the Red Letter editions of the Bible should be avoided since they project the false idea that the words of Jesus are to be looked upon with greater authority than other words in the Bible. Not so in any sense since the ENTIRE Bible is the Word of God Himself.

That to me, Onewatchman, is a difficult question to answer, simply because the Holy Spirit will come into a person's life to take up residence, when that repentance of sin is real, without other motives or hypocrisy. By this I mean, a sinner might be suddenly overwhelmed by the volume & intensity of his sin before God's Holiness (as was in my case back in 1979), where I fell to my knees in tears when my sin, once enjoyable & boundless, suddenly became a horror in my heart. I could do nothing else but cry out for mercy to a merciful God. And how did I know that I was baptized in the Spirit? Not with other tongues, nor any other outward manifestation, but with an overwhelming peace in my heart & the assurance that my cry was heard & I was now forgiven. To me, that could only happen when the Holy Spirit filled me - turning my weeping over my wretchedness before God into laughter for being made clean & acceptable, because of God's mighty Work. And God's Spirit has been with me & in me all this time, in my long march Heaven-ward.

Mine is just a quick example for you, of a conviction of sin & reception of the Holy Spirit at the point of repentance. But of course, not all who repent or confess or even baptized in water, are necessarily saved. Why? Because we do not know that person's state, his reason for turning to Christ, or him just being on a journey with God, so that what may be repentance now, may some time later be a true repentance leading to salvation & the Gift of the Holy Spirit. So it is possible that a person may repent for his sins often (i.e. feeling sorry for doing wrong & then going back to the old ways; but not having the conviction of sin that causes a complete turn-around & brokenness before God). I think of Acts 3:19: "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord...". True repentance brings true conversion brings true refreshing now & till Jesus returns.

Hello Brandi,

I will pray for you and others. I myself, need to lose weight and it has been very hard for me due to many painful problems in my feet, knees, hips, and back over the past 5 years or so. Exercising is too painful for me and so I watch what I eat. But losing pounds is a slow process for me. And when I get ill, like you, it is hard to keep at it when one's body is fighting something else.

Dear Heavenly Father, we come to You today in the name of Jesus and ask for Your help concerning losing weight that is causing problems in our bodies. Lead us to a method that will work for the long run, be sustainable over a long time, and cause our body's metabolism to work properly. Lord God, help us to overcome cravings for food that harm us and develop in us a taste for foods that help us, especially food groups that we shy away from in our present diet. Lord, You are sovereign over us, so we ask that You rule our appetites and cause our bodies to lose weight in a healthy way. Father, this is a struggle for many of us, and we need Your power to overcome this problem of being overweight. Heal us from pain that keeps us from activity that will help our metabolism and strengthen our bodies internally and outwardly. Increase our stamina for activity so that we do not get breathless so easily. Help those of us who have asthma that interferes with our ability to exert ourselves to a level to promote metabolic actions that reduce fat in our bodies. We ask that You will help our loved ones support us in our efforts and need to lose weight and cause their love for us to be strong and selfless and likewise our love for them in the same way. We thank you that You love us so and am willing to answer our prayers as You see fit. We are trusting You to help us and to guide us and to work in us to accomplish that which You have as priorities for us to fulfill at this time in our llives. Amen.

Page 3.

I believe the KJV is the best we can have in our language, but if we believe that the "Bible is its own dictionary & its own interpreter" (at least to learn of the deeper spiritual Truths), & then to not use the tools available to us, this will certainly leave us less informed than we can & ought to be.

What I read & understood of Hell as a new believer, is a far cry to what I know now, given the Hebrew/Greek words, contexts, etc. Without this knowledge, any other interpretation is headed for failure. Once we learn this, then understanding the Bible's Truths, with the Spirit's enabling, will be fruitful.

But I will acknowledge this: if an unbeliever reads the Gospel in the Bible for the first time, knowing nothing else, he can certainly receive conviction of sins & shown the path to salvation by the Spirit's Work through the Word. But can that person then give an explanation of why this is so? Most likely not. Only after much studying & related Scripture comparisons, can he learn, digest & apply God's Truth & why his salvation is "so great".

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Without these principles, here's what can happen by those who look only to the spiritual, deeper message of the Bible & disregarding any other method to approach them: we can make Hell to mean whatever we think it should mean, there's no hunger to learn what it is supposed to mean when the original languages are referred to, Hell (as many other biblical topics) can be over-spiritualized to apply to anything that we are comfortable with (e.g. since God is a God of perfect Love, His consignment of anyone to an eternal fire is preposterous). And this is only one example; demonstrating that we, who have the Word of God in English, must be cognizant of the many other stages of its development from when God first inspired the original authors to pen those words.

What we now accept as the pure unchangeable Word of God in the KJV is quite different from their original languages. With various copies of the originals made, of translation difficulties (text gathering, text comparison, etc.), of limitations of 'English' words to correctly express the meaning & intent of the original, all guarantee that what we have now does not bear an exact resemblance to the original writings; insofar as correctly expressing the original words into English words/ideas. We can ask any Hebrew or Greek reader, who is proficient in English as well, to verify this - and we are talking about complete accuracy to the original here. Yet, we accept the KJV as God-inspired, when in fact it was the original writings that were so & the KJV has been as faithful as is possible to them.

Page 1.

Thank you David0920 for those added comments. Just to focus on your comment, "when determining how we are to approach and interpret scripture, we MUST look to the Bible itself and ONLY to the Bible and to the ENTIRE Bible to instruct us. That is to define our Hermeneutic", which seems to sum up the point you're making here.

True, ultimately only the Word of God is God's Message to the world, & I believe hermeneutics is only the principle applied so as to enable us to grasp & correctly handle the given Word, so that the Spirit might take us further into knowledge of Truth. All those parts of Hermeneutics are only essential for employing the basic tools to 'rightly divide the Word', but those tools can never in themselves guarantee us access to the true, deeper meanings, but they will give us a proper foundation to proceed. Therefore, as much as it is commendable to you or others to believe that they will resort to no other tool to assist them, except the Bible in their hands, we can see that even this can bring on questions & disputes with others reading the same Scriptures who are dependent on the same Holy Spirit to lead them. I ask, 'why is this so?'

A classic one is whether Hell/Lake of Fire is an actual place of eternal torment or simply expressed in a figurative manner to denote something else quite different. Biblical hermeneutics always demands a literal interpretation (unless the wording in context is metaphorical), it demands that we apply historical, grammatical, contextual principles to Hell to help us know what meaning is intended, and of course, to compare that Scripture with others to learn what God has spoken about it, through other authors.

Hi Jimbob,

I feel I have intruded on you and Chris, forgive me if I have.

I will just touch on Matt. 24:40-41. I understand Matt. 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 are twofold, parts for the disciples for instruction for what they would endure and things leading up to the destruction of the temple and also for who will be living at the end times. In context of the chapter, we see "the coming of the Son of man." three times in this chapter verses 27, 37, and 39.

Matt. 24:27 He will be seen coming as Rev. 1:7. In Matt. 24:29:31 after the tribulation the Son of man coming with power and great glory. Rev. 19:11-16, similar to Joel 2:11, Joel 3:13-17 Zechariah 14:1-9. My understanding this is about the Second Coming of Christ.

In Matt. 24:36 we do not know when and we must be ready, we do not know when our death will be, it could be now. Jesus second coming is after the tribulation of the beast, we must be ready to not be tempted and be strong in our faith to not take the mark to save this flesh. Luke covers Matt.24 40-41 and just before, he adds this. Matt. 16:25 Mk. 8:35

Luke 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it, and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. God has said He will keep us from this, Rev. 3:10, but for those people who know the truth and refuse to receive it, He will send a delusion, 2 Thes. 2:11-12

In Matt. 24:37-39 as the days of Noah so shall also be the coming of the Son of man, the ones taken away in Noah's time were wicked. Matt.24:40-41 Why would it be the opposite of Noah's time? It is like the wheat and the tares at the end the ones taken will be burned in the lake of fire and the righteous will be left. At Jesus's return, the ones taken before the end will be where the eagles are, Luke 17:37 Ezek. 39:17-20 Rev. 19:17-21 the battle of Armageddon.

This is my understanding you may disagree and that is ok. Those in the first resurrection reign with Jesus on earth and there are only two resurrections.

God bless,

RLW

Alex1900,

That is not what I said and certainly not what I meant. God is infinite and the Bible reveals only the character and nature of God that He chooses to reveal to us. Our finite minds could never begin to understand every aspect of the character and nature of God.

But God identifies Himself totally with the Word of God, and the Bible with God Himself. As the Bible declares in John 1.

John 1:1-5

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

John 1:14

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

So can there be any doubt whatsoever that the Bible has ONE AUTHOR, and that is God Himself.

The point I am making is that we MUST come to the Bible recognizing that the Bible ALONE and in its ENTIRETY is GOD'S WORD. Not merely a collection of books ABOUT God's Word by many authors, or merely CONTAINING God's Word. But it is, in fact, THE WORD OF GOD Himself, that God has given us, form Genesis 1:1 through Revelation 22:21.

This is not a small or insignificant matter. It is FUNDAMENTAL to understanding what God is teaching as we read and study the Bible.

Spiritual Truth - Part 1

The Word of God teaches us in 1 Cor. 2:14 that the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them because they are spiritually discerned.

This is why those communicating their messages in this 'forum' so often use the word 'discerning' while the 'Word of God' is not of any private interpretation ( 2 Peter 1:20). This is why it also teaches; that anyone that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man ( 1 Cor. 2:15).

Please remember, the words from the 'Word of God' are according to the 'Spirit of Truth' ( John 14:17). Furthermore, the Spirit of truth cannot be received by this world ( John 14:17) as this whole world has been deceived ( Rev. 12:9).

May we suggest you search the words 'a world deceived' an learn how you may know the difference between the 'natural' and the 'spiritual' body ( 1 Cor. 15:44) and how and by whom this whole world has been deceived ( Rev. 12:9).

Seek, and ye shall find ( Matthew 7:7).

It is God's will for all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth ( 1 Timothy 2:4), but not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven ( Matthew 7:21).

Many will say unto me that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? ( Matthew 7:22).

And then will I profess unto them I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity ( Matthew 7:23). If you would like to know who by nature your Father is, may we suggest you read John 8::43-45.

David0920....God Almighty is much more then a bible....Hope ya can see this simply truth....Gbu

Question. I was told millstone around neck was mentioned in reference to Judas Iscariot as well as the children, I can't find it.

I love this online bible

Bible Interpretation: Part 2

But let me be clear so that there is no misunderstanding.

When God writes about a historical event, that record is absolutely true and trustworthily recorded the way it literally occurred. And we can learn some historical and moral and spiritual lessons from the event and the literal record itself without going any deeper.

However, we have not come to the ultimate truth that God is teaching in that record until we have uncovered the underlying Gospel message that God is teaching in the particulars of the event and the words and phrases that God has used to record that event.

And, most importantly, as we seek to uncover the underlying Gospel message by comparing scripture with scripture and allowing the Bible to be its own interpreter, our conclusions must harmonize with everything else the Bible declares about that aspect of the Gospel. As God declares the scriptures are "not subject to any private interpretation".

This is not easy to do and takes time and effort to "compare spiritual things with spiritual". And God Himself must open our spiritual eyes to give us understanding in accordance with His will and His time table.

Fortunately God had provided some to be teachers that have taken time and study to do their homework and guide us in this. Of which I most certainly do not claim to be one. But we must recognize that no teacher is infallible and we must check out what they are teaching by going back to the Bible again and again.

May God in His Mercy lead us into truth as we search the scriptures.

Maybe a verse not on how to do it, but about attitude in doing it. Psalm 84:10 For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand. I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness.

Bro Chris love ya my man...But lemme give ya my slant on all the hermeneutics and exegesis in the world cd not open that book the new covenant in the right hand of the Father....John said i wept much b/c no one in heaven or earth cd open the book that Jesus wrote with his own blood....Remember that image in Daniel 2 had to be destroyed completely which is Churchanity....Thats y Paul was saying when that which is PERFECT is come ( the new covenant in his blood ) that which is done in part will be done away with...( Hermeneutics/Exegesis,..we see in part etc)....All the Hermeneutics and Exegesis of the world cd not open that book that was sealed by God himself with 7 seals....In Daniel 12:4...The woman cd not get pregnant till the book was opened simply b/c the contents of the book are the seeds of the sower the seeds/words of the bridegroom that is gonna initiate a birth of Christ in everybody ...The manchild in us Sinners....I will know them all from the least to the greatest... Jeremiah 31:34 kjv...She brought forth a manchild that is gonna rule all nations....Thats y Jesus was saying these things are HID ( sealed with 7 seals ) from the wise and prudent but only revealed unto babes and sucklings...The woman's Children the real H.G. the Children of Promise...As that which Is born of the spirit is spirit which is the spirit of truth the H.G...The manchild.. John 16:13

The bible is precious n holy...but the book in the right hand of the father cd not be opened till the 7 seals were broken...Which are spritual seals not anything to do with literal seals....The writen word...Nothin availeth anything in Christ Jesus but a new Creature... Gal 6:15....Not circumcision nor uncircumcision but only by that New Creature...Which is our new innerman the H.G. That Child of Promise....A baby Christ in the spirit...She brought forth a manchild which is gonna rule all nations...Which is that spirit of truth that is gonna reprove the whole world of sin and righteousness, judgement.