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There were no emperors in Europe from 476-800 A.D. There also was no Holy Roman emperor (the reign of the Roman Catholic Church politically)During this time there was a great migration and military warring by those peoples termed "barbarians"-The Franks, Alani, Suebi, Goths (including Ostrogoth and Visigoth), Huns, Vandals, Bulgars. Which threatened the western church in many ways.
In the early 500's the Burgundians moved into Gaul and the Frankish Merovingian dynasty arose which later created the Carolingian dynasty of which Charlemagne was declared the Holy Roman Emperor of the Roman Catholic empire.
During the 5th-9th century the Saxons migrated from the southern Baltic coast through Germany into Gaul and Britain. The Saxons collided with the Franks, but eventually were absorbed into the Frankish dynasty in the 700's under Charlemagne whom campaigned to gain control of the Saxons and also to convert them to Christianity. The inhabitants of Britain became a mix Britons, Angles, Saxons, Frisians with various petty kingdoms throughout, as was the case in
western continental Europe as well.
During this time the Frankish kings/dynasty exerted a large degree of control over the papacy and Catholic Church during the 8th-10th centuries. And the Papacy retained the right to crown emperors and at times inter interjected into the politics of the Frankish dynasty, often intervening in political disputes. The Carolingian dynasty waned in power by the 9th and 10th centuries and the papacy and Catholic Church were under the control of powerful nobles of the feudal arena. Emperor Otto 1 even deposed Pope John XII (955-964) At times the papacy suffered from corruption, weakness, and controlling factions among the nobles.
It was during the 11th and 12th centuries where Pope Leo iX attempted to reform the clergy and papacy morally and institutionally.
At this time the Franks developed the most powerful Christian kingdom in medieval Europe
It is true that neither the Church nor the U.S. is a pure democracy.
the Church is under the rulership of Jesus, who is King, Priest, Mediator, and head over all believers. We have received the Scriptures as our rule for living, the standard for correctly relating to God and to one another, the power of God unto salvation in the Gospel, and the way we judge our own motives, actions, beliefs, how we devote our time and energy. So, there is no democracy in how the Church universal is governed. In local congregations, believers have a say in many matters of practice, with by direct vote, decisions of elected elders, or that of synods, conferences or other governing bodies depending on the way a congregation is set up to be governed.
In the U.S., being a representative republic primarily with democratic choices are made in some things.
We can vote directly (democratically) in terms of passing initiatives and referendums in our states. When we vote in elections, state elections are decided democratically but presidential elections are decided part by voting of the people which then is subjected to the electoral college votes for each state. When laws are passed, it is not by popular democratic voting but by the work and voting of representatives and senators in Congress or in state legislatures.
There are also such things as executive orders at both the state and federal level where the executive has been given such powers by the constitution or by legislation passed by representatives in the House of Senate. And our judicial branch is not to create laws, as that is in the power of the both houses of congress, but the courts evaluate laws or suits according the constitution and the rights, privileges, and prohibitions contained in this binding legal document that is more objective and binding than any other aspects of government. The judicial branch is to be bound to rule according to the objective standards contained in the constitution.
Christ in you. Our character.
It should represent Galatians 5:22-23.
(Without acting!)
If Christ is in you he's producing this fruit!
He's drawing people to himself.
If it's an action of a Hypocrite it's a lusty attempt to draw people to you!
However if it is Christ inspired you and people is drawn to you and a door opens for you to sow seeds you hope it falls on good ground!
You may not be there to see it increase and initially you may be spoken of as evil from a non-believer.
Often that is what being "Christ like" looks like.
Persecution!
I have a great relationship throughout the community, My Job, My Church I attend!
Everyone that knows me Know that I am a Christian and they respect me and many seems to want to hear me preach.
I have more issues with the proud or false Christian than I do with the sinners.
I believe I am blessed with a good judgment of character.
Often a person live out there beliefs.
You see it in the prosperity gospel. (A fleshly, lusty person)
You can see it in a prideful Christian or a Hypocrite.
They can not present humility!
They blend in well but If you let them speak on the word of God you will see what's in their belly!
This sounds harsh but it's true!
Stand strong in the Lord.
Blessings.
I've returned from my errand. Jesse has given you the verse in Galatians that speaks of having faith in Jesus shows we have received the Holy Spirit.
I will cite Acts 2:38 where Peter says to believe the gospel, repent, be baptized and one will receive the Holy Spirit.
Eph. 1:13-14 speaks of the Holy Spirit sealing one when they believe
In Actd 10:44-48 Believers receive the Holy Spirit prior to baptism.
In Acts 19:1-6 Believers receive the Holy Spirit after baptism.
These Scriptures confirm what Jesus said to Nicodemus in Jon 3, that the Holy Spirit is like the wind, we cannot see Him, but we see His work in us. God is free to work in those He chooses to draw to Jesus as He pleases.
The regenerative work of the Holy Spirit is not something any person can do. His indwelling and regenerative work are in His own counsel and will.
But we can know if we believe in Jesus and the His gospel, we can be sure that we have received the indwelling and work of the Holy Spirit in us, though we may not perceive Him doing this work, but we instead believe what Scripture teaches and then move forward in faith to live according to the working of the Holy Spirit in us.
I believe it is true that when one is baptized in water as Jesus commanded that the Holy Spirit either regenerated the person prior to come to faith and then choose to be baptized or that the Holy Spirit may regenerate the person being baptized at that time or regenerate the person at a time after water baptism..
Baptism is an outward action indicative of an inward work of God with the Holy Spirit causing a person to be born again and to come to faith in Jesus.
So, historically, baptism and the infilling/indwelling of the Holy Spirit are connected. I'll get back to you in a bit. I have to leave for an errand.
I believe what is seen on the outside is a representation of what's on the inside!
But what's on the inside is wrapped with flesh so the appearance won't be perfect!
We also must take on the account that those watching may have a carnal mind and can not discern what is Christ inspired!
For instance, Meekness. A virtue of strength under control, characterized by gentleness, patience, and humility.
Being Meek isn't being "weak" and it shouldn't compromise the truth and it shouldn't halt one from speaking the truth in what they see or hear!
Galatians 6:1 reads "Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of "Meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
Now this is a business between Brothern!
The response will vary depending on what the fault is!
Some will take this restoring well and some not so well.
Pride can make things difficult!
Should we soften this Brother up with a few lies?
Of course not!
We tell, preach, and teach the truth and sometimes that hurts both parties to do so.
That may not bring an immediate good response but God stands behind his truth being delivered with Meekness and Humility.
Now for the prideful heart and carnal eyes Meekness and Humility won't make a bit of difference.
We are to be strong in the Lord and stand and that is not often taken well.
There has been many Christians martyred for telling the truth including all the Apostles and Stephen in Acts 7.
Call someone stiff neck, whitewashed wall" or whitewashed tombs, today as Jesus, Stephen and Paul did and see what happens.
(Of course I'm half kidding) but hopefully you get my point.
Our character is what we are talking about, that's what draws people to you, but it's genuine and it's not fake because it's not you in control of it.
It's Spiritual maturity, It's Christ in you!
See part 2.
My apologies. I meant to say Galatians 3:27.
Blessings!
And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves. ( Matt. 21:13).
The perspective of the Christ of the humanist or left leaning person politically is that somehow He inspired love through calls for unity (i.e. the "great teacher" delusion). Many of the same persuasion choose as Atheists (often a clever smokescreen for Satanists who deny the one they spend half of their lives praising) to call the God of the Old Testament cruel and inhuman; and as one particular well known false preacher today tries to separate their construct of Jesus of the New Testament from that entity.
Now there are perhaps timid yet in their minds well meaning Christians who realize what the culture would like in terms of submission and therefore don't want to force their beliefs on others. That is sort of another angle to my last post in terms of the fact we don't have a Theocracy like ancient Israel did in the past; and having one today isn't a good plan either. But here I am stating that in the house of God as we see from Matthew 21:13 there should be some sort of jealousy for His name's sake.
The basic math boils down to this: How deep or shallow do we want our fellowship with the saints to be? Should it be a social club where people hang out; eat; discuss everyday activities; complain about the ills of the world around them (particularly those of the political opposition) and basically do everything the world does? Or; maybe the adage "woe unto you" should be the default response to someone not idolizing the local football team as one example. Jeremiah 9:24 along with the more familiar passages in 2 Corinthians discuss of boasting of God's power; not our own. What we exalt; we hold up as worthy for admiration and in the case of Christ; for worship. Once we see the value of Him; that naturally extends to His church and we exalt the Word!
When my first born son was born to my delight and surprise I saw my image in him . On reflection afterwards every family has a ' likeness' . But he bore my image because I was his father and he came from me . If I had not been his father he wouid not have born my image but the image of his true father andI would have rejected him as my son .
When a man stands before Almighty God and then finds himself in hell it will not be so much because he has sinned ( for all have sinned) but because he having rejected Jesus Christ does not bare the image if God in him but the image if his true father .
For having said all their life " No God" has to all intents and purposes said 'I am not a child of God'.
This is a simple synopsis of the development of Christianity in the West and East. When the Roman Empire fell from power, the Church of Rome took on extraordinary powers to become the Holy Roman Empire, which became the full-fledged RCC.
There is a lot to the history of the Church Jesus founded. Some of it is very good and rightly proclaimed Scriptural truth and some of it fell into error int he first centuries with various heresies you can examine if you wish. Because the Roman empire was such a strong power and the rise of the Byzantine Empire was a threat, Rome became the central seat of the Church with the appointments of Popes. The term "pope" was originally applied to ALL bishops of western Christianity. when the church in Rome became very strong especially having two bishops, then Rome began to be given stronger control of the other bishops across the Roman Empire. It was in the 9th century that the Bishop of Rome was designated as the official pope. Between the end of the the 300's up to the 500's or so, there is not a whole lot of history concerning the development of how the Bishops of Rome became to seen in a higher order than others. But with the development of Rome becoming the seat of Western Christianity, the Roman Catholic Church began to emerge along the way.
Anyway, I could add so much more about this history but I think you can do so yourself just as easily.
My main point in this is to show that Jesus did build His church before, in and through the western and eastern branches of the church for nearly 1000 years. And there was much error that developed as the centuries passed, there is really no indication that the centuries following just after the apostles was unduly corrupted or maligned by heretics, as you have seemed to state in your posts.
Thankfully, God raised up many people within this church body from 1000 A.D. up through the 1600's to challenge the heresies of the church and work to reform the teachings of the church.
Lately I've heard about certain esoteric roots related to Alice Bailey for one that apparently were part of the origin of this popular and trending move in "Christendom" today. Much like the attitude of those in Communism from its inception there are many "useful idiots" whether well intentioned or not that are being; well used to take over this world as a Kingdom that was not one Christ Himself said He wasn't interested in ruling over at the time He came the first time to earth ( John 18:36).
Now Satan isn't seen as the god of this world; some within the movement may speak of those who have evil designs doing his bidding; but it is never recognized it seems that he indeed has; for the time been given the status of the "god of this world" ( 2 Cor. 4:4). Never mind any verses mentioning a one world ruler who will be worshipped by EVERYONE not written in the book of life in Revelation 13:8. I suppose these leaders think Satan can be tricked somehow or overpowered from his throne at present so they can complete their grand design or mandate; and somehow not be part of his own sick plan for domination through their efforts in creating to a large extent "Mystery Babylon".
Again; with every false way enough truth is used to convince most people that it is right. We certainly should vote for those who at least appear to expouse truth and righteousness that is clearly superior to another candidate; if not for our own hides; for the care and love of our brother and neighbor and what is best for them. This requires the wisdom to abstain from such a vote if our conscious doesn't convict us that we can't vote for either party. It also means we shouldn't be naive to how; as the saying goes absolute power corrups absolutely and to carefully follow the money trail. We must hold our politicians accountable to do what they say not say what they claim they do.
Christ is the head of the church; the church doesn't rule over Him.
Pt. 2.
I believe that some who did go "sideways" in their understandings of what the apostles taught did receive correction and returned to correct belief. Others did not, but I believe in the generations following the apostles, most church leaders were highly desirous of following correct doctrine and that they were born again and filled with the Holy Spirit. I believe this because I believe that Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit would guide the church in all truth and that Jesus would not forsake the church He is building.
During the first 3 centuries Christianity spread throughout the Roman Empire of the time. It was not the Roman Catholic Church at that time. Christians where widely persecuted by the Roman Empire, by those who held to pagan religions, by Jews, and other groups that did not understand the Christian faith or felt as if it was a threat to their own system of beliefs or power in society.
In 313, the Edict of Milan by Constantine legitimized Christianity as a legally recognized religion. It was not at this time the Roman Catholic Church. Across the Roman Empire during this century, Arianism was prevalant among the Ostrogoths and Visigoths that flanked the empire on the North and East. The Church at that time fought against this heresy strongly in a unified effort. Later in this century the Edict of Thessolonica was put into effect by Theodosius I declaring Christianity the official church of the Roman Empire. in 380, denouncing Arianism as heretical. But even in this event, the Roman Catholic Church was not in existence. Julian the Emperor from 355-360 rejected Christianity as the official religion of the Roman Empire. During this time period the Church divided into East and West branches with one centered in Rome and the other in Constantinople with the rise of the Byzantine Empire in the East (395. A.D.).
Though there were popes prior to the sack and fall of Rome in 455 gave rise to the RCC as the reigning power in the west.
The majority wins. That's the official mantra of the system of government which; in theory is part of the foundation of our voting system (in reality it is the congressional vote which determines winners; and a third party doesn't stand a chance).
We can compare this to a system such as the Pre Revolutionary British Monarchy that ruled our part of the world before we declared Independence where the Aristocracy ruled with their own interpretation of a church and state sort of reign. Neither type of system should be that which governs the local church.
That; of course is often the reality today; we have in megachurches a corporate leader with a few in the inner circle who act as a sort of glorified Robin Hood in the opposite direction; stealing from the poor and giving to the rich and in turn convincing the masses including those in impoverished regions in Africa that they will be blessed by giving; such are those deceiving and being decieved ( 2 Tim. 3:13). We have other houses of worship with similar behavior that pressure giving for legalistic reasons.
The opposite of this situation are places where anarchy basically reigns with whatever the masses want to believe being tolerated where we are asked to simply believe in His name with no change of the heart required ( Romans 10:9). This is clearly a violation of proper shepherding by those in the teaching and elder camp of authority along with an abregation of duty for proper discipline outlined by Christ ( Matt. 18:15); as well as the needed "judging" of certain actions within the church ( 1 Cor. 6:7) which should have been employed rather than boasting of the man involved in gross sexual sin ( 1 Cor. 5:1).
Thus we hear in church to vote for the lesser evil but would we want to do that if it involved someone in authority over us in the church? Would we prefer an adulterer to a thief?
More in the next post...
Agape. RP
I would say yes. We see this in 1 Corinthians 3:27. That's Spiritual baptism.
Also, 1 Corinthians 12:13 tells us that we've all been baptized by one Spirit into the body of Christ. It's another phrase for the Spirit of God coming into a person's life and represents cleansing and identification.
I was speaking of church history from the 1st century on. Neither you nor I or anyone in recent centuries truly know how God was working within His Church to build it upon Jesus and His truth. But instead of speaking of this history in negative remarks not based on actual knowledge of what really occurred, we should all have an attitude of trust in Jesus and His words that say HE will build HIS Church and it will prevail until He returns. I can trust God in this, even knowing that there have been many controversies, heresies, and false sects that have cropped up during Jesus' Churches history. Yet, the Holy Spirit is not given only to individual believers, but to the Church through the ages, as it was given to the gathered Church at Pentecost.
I believe that Jesus always speaks the truth, therefore I can know that He is has been and still is building His Church based on the truths revealed to the apostles in the first century. After the apostles were martyred with John being the only one to survive attempts at being killed and die of old age, the leaders of the churches planted by the apostles and disciples that had first had experience with Jesus, as was the case at Pentecost, studied, preached, and guarded the teachings of the apostles with seriousness and desired to correctly spread the truth of the faith passed down by the saints. I think that it is really important for us to lean towards such a belief and not unduly criticize these men God had selected to lead in His Church following the apostles.
They needed to know the Scriptures as well as teach from them to their congregants because the Scriptures were not available to the common people, most of whom could not read. As for me, I can trust that the Holy Spirit was within the Churches established by the apostles and disciples of Jesus despite the rise of erroneous and also heretical ideas that some adopted and promoted.
See Pt. 2
Glad to meet you and I pray that you will find helpful words here on this forum. I have been helped by others again and again. This forum and the brethren have been a huge blessing to me.
I pray that God will aid you in your exams.
Agreeing with you before the Lord.
I have always thought that at the heart of things, we are to show Christ in us to others in our face, actions, lifestyle, words, and demeanor.
Thanks for your comment brother. When I say that everything has been revealed since ancient times I mean the doctrines of christianity, not pesonal revelations. The latter occur when God takes the veil off a scripture and so one understands it better. Definitely we can not fully know God. Paul says that as long as we live in these bodies we get to know Him partly. Up there in Heaven we will get to know Him fully(?). So yes this is right as far as personal revelation is considered.
But when we talk about doctrines of faith the whole situation changes. Because if we assume that today we know some things more than the ancient church this can lead a strange situation. Was the ancient church inferior than modern churches? I wouldn't think so. Protestantism suffered and is still suffering a lot due to that "progressive revelation". So one leaves their congregation because they think that God has revealed them something the others do not know, so they go and establish a new church and so on. And at the end there are tenths of colours and smells. So you see there is a huge problem here and a danger. All claim that are led by the Spirit but the Spirit leads to different destinations? Everybody claim that their doctrines are based on the scriptures but the scriptures lead to different doctrines? And why would God reveal to us something that He had not revealed to the ancient church? Wasn't the ancient church that suffered persecutions, the lions and the flames? Do we think that we are superior than them? God could easily recommend a specific church if He wanted to. But He doesn't do it. Why? .......?. Maybe it is not so essential for God. Maybe God sees the big picture. the salvation of souls not careing much about differences in "minor" things? But again what could be considered as a minor thing? Is there a red line in doctrines that if one crosses it then they can not be saved? Or there isn't such a line? And if there is at what point is it? Many questions.
GBU
I think I have been misuderstood. Maybe due to the way I wrote my comment. What I meant was do people see Christ in us when they see our behavior, our daily life, our love for people? Does our life shows that we belong to Christ? And to which degrre? This is what I meant.
About the other you wrote, I have had some experiences in the past. In one, there was a brother, an elder of the church, whom I knew for some time. A very good brother indeed. Once we had an appointment to go somewhere. While walking towards him as I was coming closer to him I felt as if I was entering a sanctified environment. As if there was an area with him at the centre where one was feeling sanctifiation. The more I was getting closer to him the strongest that feeling was becoming and the opposite. I never told him.
In a second, there was as sister in Christ who on a specific day she was fastying and praying for something she wanted from God. In the evening when I met her, I saw her face radiating light. It was not as the normal light we see but it was light. And her face was different than usual. She was having an expression... I can not really describe it, maybe hilarity is the right word. And it wasn't only me who was seeing this. Everybody who came across her and had a look at her, standed surprised by what they were seeing. It reminded me of the portraits of the saints in the Eastern Orthodox churches where they depict the saints having a crown of light around their face. It was something similar, just the light was not the physical light but something of a different nature.
Definately the closer we go to God, the closer He comes to us, and so His presense becomes very evident to everyone. But my comment was not about those things which are actually rare.
GBU
In the third para read the line
" Psalm 19 goes on to add,"The last Adam the lord from heaven, Which is"
as follows
" Psalm 19 goes on to add,-the last Adam the lord from heaven, "Which is "
v.10. "These are the generations of Shem" Here on wards families are in focus to which the generation of Jesus Christ shall serve as the template. Jesus challenges all families of the earth the condition on which they shall be blessed.. In 12.3 we see accordingly the selfsame condition offered to Abram. "Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!/ For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother."(Mt.12.48-50) This familial relationship falls outside the will of man. ( Jn 1.12-13) It is the word sent forth and it shall accomplish what it sets out to do.
In the Covenant we have the two 'great' lights one to rule the day and the other to rule the night. So this firmament, the third heaven is set as a sign for the bridegroom. "Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge./There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard./Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun." When the Bride of the Lamb is ready she is coming down from heaven and not 'rapture' as many seem to suppose. "The holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."(Rev.21.1-3)
Psalm 19 goes on to add,"The last Adam the lord from heaven, Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race./ His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof"(vv,4-6) This tabernacle for the sun is the city, Zion. It is to which Heb.12 refers as the Church. "But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels"(Heb.12.22-23)
Today it is raining . My judgement as to how hard may vary with another though there have been tables of degree which coukd be used . But if it's raining and someone says it is not their judgement is off .
The two thieves crucified either side of Christ in the beginning we no different from each other in that they both mocked the Lord but as times past things were said and done it made one of them think and when the other thief mocked the Lord again he rebuked him and said " do you not fear God? We are hear and are receiving our just deserts . He judged himself and spoke the truth . But this man has done nothing wrong he is innocent . He judged Christ and spoke the truth about the Lord.
If we would judge ourselves we would not be judged" The repentant thief ' saw' something else as well despite appearances he saw a King! Who was going to inherit a kingdom and would conquer death to do so . " Lord remember me when thou comets into thy kingdom " and understood that if Jesus was willing he could save him also.
ThecLord turned his head to the repentant thief who entered eternity with a promise . In doing so he turned his head from the u repentant thief who went into eternity with nothing / naked .
Good for you tragic for them .
"The Lord shall count, when he writeth up the people, that this man was born there."( Ps. 87.5-6) This church when is built on the glory." This man was called a fool but God did call one such. This is my testimony. "For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:/But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty."( (1 cor.1.26-17) God confounded the people who were in their conceit. Fools as we are God shined into our hearts. It is this glory of knowledge that shall grow from day to day. (2 cor.3.18;4.6);
Church history from the time of its inception has merely shed some outward vestiges of the gospel which is neither here nor there. Instrad of the foundation stone God has laid what the church has become as perverse as the people 'as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.' Churches as we see in their own conceits shall suffer the same fate. " and they left off to build the city."