Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 1460

...Jacob needed to follow God's way without outside influence. He traveled southwest to Succoth and built a residence there with shelters for his animals. This indicates he settled there for a time. Some time later, he crossed the Jordan, due east, to Shechem. He was now in Canaan. He built a residence there and bought this land form the family of Hamor. It was near the city. He built an altar there. In all of this time, these 20 years, God had kept Jacob safe in his journeys, blessed him with success in his endeavors and with wealth. He had guided him to Haran to the fields of Laban. He had secured Jacob both Leah and Rachel for wives, blessed him with 11 sons and a daughter, an amicable departure from Laban, and night of wrestling with God, a new name, and a peaceful reunion with his brother. Was Jacob now ready to call God by the name of God of Israel? Yes, he was. El Elohe Israel means: "God, the God of Israel". Jacob now accepted the True God as his God, the God of Israel, completing the process that began in Bethel and the dream/vision of the ladder to heaven. God proved Himself to Jacob, drawing Jacob to put his faith in Him. That took 20 years.

And now we come to the meeting of Jacob and Esau, 20 years in the making! Jacob assumed that Esau had not changed in 20 years. But he had. He had wives and children of his own now. God had given Esau 6 sons and wealth. He was a leader among the inhabitants of Seir, where he moved to from Canaan some time ago.

By the time Jacob meets up with Esau, Jacob had caught up with his family. Upon seeing Esau in the distance with 400 men, Jacob divided his family up into 3 groups. It is interesting how he selected the order of the groups. It was obvious to us that he ordered them least loved to most loved. That must have spoke volumes to his wives and sons.

Jacob approached Esau in a respectful, customary way, stopping to bow and prostrate himself towards Esau 7 times. Not so for Esau. He ran to Esau and embraced him by the neck, kissed him and they wept having set off from the the south to meet Esau with 400 men, Esau may have intended to bring harm to Jacob or capture him together. But, perhaps, overnight, "wink, wink" something changed in Esau. What a healing moment! The meeting was joyous instead of tense. Esau was delighted to see that Jacob had been blessed with a large family with twice as many sons as he had.

They discussed the gift of animals Jacob had sent ahead. Esau at first declined the gift, saying that he already had plenty. He wanted Jacob to keep the animals for himself as he gets re-established in the land of their father. At first, Jacob wanted to win Esau's favor, but now that he had it from Esau before Esau knew the animals were a gift, Jacob realized that seeing Esau face to face in such an accepting way that God had been answered his pray being so welcomed by Esau was an immense gift to Jacob. After Jacob insisting once more Esau accepted his brother's gift. Their brotherhood was restored.

Next, Esau suggested that he escort Jacob and family through the area. Jacob declines. I think that was a wise course to take. He didn't need Esau's influence.

In reference to Laban's idols, apparently they were not as rare an occurrence that might be supposed. The word in Hebrew for 'image' in Genesis 31:19 is 'terapim', or 'teraphim'. And there have been evidences of their possession by the 'God-fearing' (see Judges 17:5 (Micah); 1 Samuel 19:13 (Michal); Hosea 3:4 (Israel)). They're often connected with the 'ephod' & 'urim', so one could suppose that in the absence of the urim & ephod (which were used to learn God's Mind & direction to take), that the teraphim were kept by some to do likewise. So the teraphim (also referred to as 'gods' - Genesis 31:30), were probably not used so much for worship, but in some way to look into the future or for impartation of household blessing. Though the use of idols, images, etc. were condemned ( 2 Kings 23:24), images & teraphim apparently were still kept as a 'rabbit's foot' in households.

Now the fact that Rachel stole her father's teraphim is interesting. Either she wanted to rid them from his house as worthless idols or maybe fearing that they might have some impact on alerting Laban as to where Jacob & his family had fled to, she took them to prevent that happening. Or yet, she may have wanted to take something to remember her father by (no photos in those days) or even to take something of value ( Genesis 31:14,15). By her hiding them (obviously they were very small objects) under the camel's accoutrements, indicates that she held little value to them as objects of worship, or else she wouldn't be sitting on them. But one could be justifiably concerned that Rachel might have given those teraphim some undeserved regard.

Jesus was baptized in Matthew 3:11 thru 17. He said it must be done to fulfill "all righteousness."

The apostle Paul was baptized in Acts 9:6 thru 17! It says in verse 6 that he (Paul) would be told what he MUST do.

In 1st Peter 3:21 the scriptures say "baptism doth also now save us....it is the answer of a good conscience toward God."

Why does mankind delibertly refuse to accept baptism as necessary to have their sins forgiven?

....He is in need of God's help. In this instance, instead of God initiating the interaction by appearing to him and speaking to him first, Jacob calls on God in prayer for help in facing a perceived adversary. He has realized the he does not need to wait on God to show up, but he can go straight to God and get a response. This is a challenge of his faith, "will God answer my prayer?"

I noticed that Jacob was willing to stay all night in camp seeking God's help even though his family has gone ahead. So by morning, his family is 8+ hours ahead of him. And, as a result of the wrestling match, he has a limp from where God touched his thigh. He will be walking more slowly for the rest of his life. He will be constantly reminded of the night of wrestling with God. He will always know that God is stronger than him. He will also know that God is with him adn only a prayer away.

Jacob has been traveling south along the east side of the Jordan river. As he approaches the land of Seir (Edom) where Esau lives, Jacob considers what may become of meeting up with Esau after all of these 20 years. Although Jacob holds no animosity towards Esau, he figures Esau is probably still angry with him, perhaps remembering how Esau was when they grew up together for 40 years. Jacob's group was very large. He wanted to make sure that Esau knew that they are a peaceful group, not hostile or warriors. He also wanted Esau to know who he was. This gives time for both of them to prepare for a meeting. Jacob is anticipating problems, so he sends droves of livestock ahead with servants to give to Esau as a gift, hoping to soften Esau's demeaner toward Jacob and his family. That final night, after the livestock are on their way, he send his wives and children.

I have always wondered why he sent family ahead of him. Did he think Esau would see his family members and feel family affection? Did he send them away so he could be alone with God in prayer? The night Jacob wrestles with a strong man all night. Perhaps this can be likened to persevering in prayer until one gets an answer. I wonder at what point Jacob realized he was wrestling with God and not a human adversary? By the morning neither had prevailed over the other. Jacob would not stop wresting God until God blessed him. God did, changing his name from Jacob to Israel which does indicate a change in character for him. Now he would be a prince among men. At the end of the encounter, he asks God to tell him His name and God does not grant His request. I wonder why? Maybe Israel was not yet ready to know God by Name yet.

It is interesting that when he prayed to God before this event that Jacob admits his need for God's help an that any blessing he has received is undeserved and he is unworthy of being so blessed. He is humbled and finally realizing he is not the force or strength behind his successes.

Thank you for replying,however, the bible,Gods word was not already out there by 1611,except maby to the non-english speaking inhabitants(The bible was translated in to English in 1611,so that you or me could understand it);God has blessed me to see the original manuscript(me seeing it through a glass case) and guarded by the Popes guards in Rome,Italy in 1978.

Such a lovely, encouraging, and helpful post.

Thanks for the information on the Madhi.

I am glad that you are finding benefit in what I write. It is how I feel lead to respond to my reading Genesis anew on this site, so it is good to get feedback. My style isn't for everyone, but it is my prayer the benefit goes beyond me (Paraphrasing is a proven learning technique). I enjoy reading your posts as well. You make a lot of sense.

.......explaining she is having her monthly period, Jacob pretty much lights in to Laban, recounting how Laban did not treat him in good faith and Jacob had not done Laban wrong all these 20 years., recounting how well the flocks have prospered under his shepherding. He attests that God, who was his grandfather's God and his father's God (the Fear of Isaac is a name for God) has been with him none of that would have happened. He didn't claim God as his own at this time.

Then Laban has his turn at speaking to Jacob, claiming that the wives and children belong to him, along with the flock. he is unwilling to let go and keep his end of the bargain. He obviously wanted Jacob to stay in Haran and keep his family near him, though he had other sons. So Laban suggests a covenant. Laban seems to make the terms of the covenant, having Jacob vow to treat his wives well and not add any wives. Then he vows that the pillar will be a boundary that neither will cross to harm the other. He calls God, (Abraham's, Naho's, and Terah) to be the judge or witness between them. Jacob swears by the same God as Laban (the Fear of Isaac, by name) Jacob offers a sacrifice to God (makes me wonder why Laban had household idols?) The share a meal, that evening and part ways in the morning on good terms.

After hearing Jacob's words to him, perhaps Laban realized that he had mistreated Jacob and therefore relented. Or maybe Jacob's sons were much older and stronger than Laban's sons, and he assessed the situation and made the wise choice to let Jacob leave. Maybe, having heard from God, Laban was beginning a journey with the True God then.

So, we shall see how the rest of the story turns out. I'm curious about the idols Rachel stole and kept hidden from Jacob?

The daughter was to receive some of the dowry from her father. Laban had not given them any family wealth apart from what Jacob had earned. They new that Jacob had prospered their father more than what would ordinarily be a dowry amount, and that their father had spent his wealth. On top of that, Laban had treated his daughters as strangers instead of family. Funny, how Laban claimed Leah and Rachel and the grandkids as his when he confronted Jacob. Laban was greedy. This lack of reception of their father's inheritance probably prompted Rachel to take the family statues/images. Perhaps they were of some value that we do not know about. Sometimes called Teraphim, they were linked to idolatry and perhaps family land ownership.

Here in this chapter, Jacob recounts how it was that his flock grew so large. God showed him in a dream how it would happen. God also reminded him about meeting Him in Bethel and Jacob making a vow to God. The dream and words from God reminded Jacob of what he said to God in this vow, that if the Lord will prosper him and guard him, he would serve God. Now, Jacob saw that God had prospered and guarded him. Now he could trust God for his day to day life and his future.

Jacob was obedient to and set out for home without telling Laban. He knew Laban was untrustworthy and so he wanted to follow God's direction without Laban's interference. He had already been in the land 6 years past when God had first told him to leave in the dream. Now this is the second time God tells him to go home. 3 days into their journey arriving at the mount of Gilead. Laban catches up to him there after God had spoken to him to not mistreat Jacob. When Laban asks Jacob why he left as he did, Jacob says that he was afraid Laban would take his daughters back by force, reneging on the deal that was made 20 years ago. After searching for the household idols, and not finding them on account of Rachel sitting on the pillow she put them under.....see more

We worship You Heavenly Father

Thank You for hearing us and answering God we glorify You tonight

Hi Brother Dan,

It's always pleasant engaging with you as well. Sorry for such a slow response. I'm working this weekend, but will further engage with you in the near future.

God bless.

You know when women are running the church , it's all backwards , just the way the devil likes it

Baptism....

How does the Bible teach to get Baptized?

An unbeliver baptized a believer,is that Biblical? I don't go for the springling of water I believe the Bible teaches Jesus and many others were Baptized in water,. Read about the Lord's Baptism it says; and he came up out of the water.... Yes water does not change anything,but it's a symbol of death and resurrection,the old man being buried and the new man being raised to a new life.

Lord Jesus help us as ambassadors for Christ to represent the pure Gospel,and not mixed in opinion.

Many Believers say; does it really matter how Baptism is done?......

Jacob sure lived an interesting life, but not, perhaps. more so than Noah, Shem, ........Abraham, Isaac. We just are noit given quite as much info on these other brothers in the Lord.

Jacob had been away from his family for 20 years. He was at least 60 years old by now and Isaac was about 120 yrs. or more. God appears and speaks to Jacob and says to go home. He was ready to go back home, His quiver was full of children, his flocks had prospered to the point of greatly outnumbering Laban's. It seems that Laban had sons, as it says they complained about the state of their flocks as compared to Jacob's. Laban must have left the tending of his flocks totally to his sons and Jacob. Otherwise, he would have known what was the state of his flocks. He was not happy to see Jacob wealthy and now his wealth diminished, having been transferred to Jacob through the increase in Jacob's flock.

Jacob explains that he has tended the flocks in good faith for 20 years, even though Laban had changed his wages 10 times. Laban was crafty and intended to take advantage of Jacob. Jacob was mild mannered, unlike Esau. But he was also wise enough to depend on God, since God continued to bless him. It says he served Laban with all of his might. So he was all in to the job, not lazy, or looking for a way to get out of work. He was worth far more than the wage he was being paid. I was taught to work this way. I have been overqualified for most of the jobs I have had, but still worked hard and earned my wage. In one restaurant job, I worked with some workers just out of high school. They did not do their best to earn their wage, commenting that they were only getting minimum wage, so they di d not have to work hard. God honored Jacob's work ethic and blessed the work of his hands.

Leah and Rachel were concerned about leaving without any of the inheritance that they should receive. Ordinarily, a suitor would pay a dowry for a wife, but Jacob had not done so......

In the verse: And these,

1 Cor. 5:11

"But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat."

Why is the word "no" not spelled "know"?

Amen Sister GiGi.

I also learn from the refresher course you're taking us through. Going through the bible is always great, We appreciate what you do.

God bless.

Gigi Many have tried to figure out the mandrake deal, anytime in the old testament I see a situation where God tells a believer to do something that doesn't make sense its always revealed knowledge specific revelation to bless the individual and to achieve Gods Will same thing with the walls of Jericho, same thing with Elijah pouring water over a burn't sacrifice that God burn't up, these men believed what God said to do and got the results because they believed and did it. Things haven't changed in regards to what God will do for us when we believe and act on the information given. God doesn't change man does. It is walking by the spirit.

I listen carefully to the scriptures and 1 Corinthians ch 14 v34 ,35 , 36 , verse 37

If any man think himself to be a prophet or, spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I Write unto you are the commandments of the Lord .

I whole heartedly agree with apostle Paul . Those that do not endorse women to be disobey the Lord .

You seem like a nice person but obedience to the Lord is most important.

If people are not spiritual in the things of God they are ignorant, verse 38 .

Praise Yah Millie! What a testimony. Keep the faith! Satan will come after you, because you are not on his side.

IRAN had several large earthquakes today; like almost a 7. Wonder if it sets back their Nuke production?

I do not know why, but last night I searched YouTube about "this Mahdi" that the Palestinians talk about.

They pretty much say the same thing in every video. The Mahdi is the resurrected spirit of an ancient king? Who supposedly becomes Antichrist? They speak English just fine.

They never say Jesus's name but they talk around him. They're discussing His return. I have a bad feeling about that 85 billion in military equipment Biden left behind so he could just frustrate Donald Trump.

Then they put first, fighting against other Palestinians Groups FIRST. It sounded like the plan to unite 3 groups to March on Jerusalem?

Then I wonder if they're posting this on YouTube to distract the real purpose? Are they contacting the Palestinians that Biden just allowed to sneak over here on the Afghanistan exodus? I don't see Biden keeping anybody informed on this do you?

Are we going see violence from this? Like mall bombs etc. I hope not.

Jesus could return any time. You might look at the prophesy lectures (the one that's over 2 hours) on GEVTE (YouTube)

No Z, the vaccine is not the mark of the beast.

Gigi P.S. Since it is Gods will that as it is written signs miracles and wonders follow us who believe, it doesn't say just the apostles in context those that believe in what God has done through Jesus Christ he already stated His will in His word, the problem is we believe so far below what we have already been given in Christ. Too many times I myself have been told that's not possible or that's not available. I'm speaking about things I have watched or done, so the enemy has talked believers out of whats available. How will you ever Go up against spiritual power if you have not been given the power to do it. We indeed are children with the Power of the most High. It Is Written What I state is quite clear. Let us rise up and utilize our God Given abilities in Christ.

The Lord to bless you Alice. God will help you__Mishael

Psalm 27:10

When my father and my mother forsake me, then the LORD will take me up.

Romans 8:15

For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Ephesians 1:5

Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to HIMSELF, according to the good pleasure of his will,

There is no greater commandment from God than we are to love God and love others. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind, and all your strength. The second most important command is this: Love your neighbor the same as you love yourself. There is none other commandment greater than these ( Mark 12:30-31).

The ultimate commandment is to love. When we love God, we trust God, we trust God's Word, and we want to obey all His commandments. We love our neighbor (family, friends, children and strangers), we treat them with gentleness, kindness, patient, hope, support, trust, forgiveness, and we believe in them. In the same way, when we love ourselves, we are positive in our actions and hope, we believe in ourselves, and we believe in our position in Christ. When we love others, we are obeying God's greatest commandment.

Children's needs are small really: a bed, food, hugs and touch, a few special toys, a walk around the block to imprint where they live now, see other children. Assurance that you will never leave them; and that their mother is ok and they can talk to her in prayer. They don't need details unless they ask.

When sin happens, we wait 30 mins for impatience and anger to pass. Discuss the issue, both parties decide appropriate "punishment" calmly. I took a favorite toy and put high up out of reach for an hour so they see it and long to be restored to it. Set a alarm clock.

Yelling hardens the heart and resentment boils inside. Daily, read a few Proverbs & discuss their meaning.

Well, this is just as interesting as the last chapter. yes, Jacob had sexual relationships with 4 women who were given to his household. He didn't go out of what was his to find more women. I think the problems between Rachel and Leah are expected. I was surprised for the bargaining Rachel and Leah did- mandrakes for a lay with Jacob. It must have been Rachels turn to have time with Jacob sexually. Leah's sons were old enough to provide some sustenance for the family. Rachel had not much as much leverage as Leah. Jacob didn't seem to object to the deal, even though he loved Rachel more than Leah, but he cared for both of the

Unlike Jacob and Esau where Jacob was the child of promise and Esau was not, all of Jacob's sons were equally children of the promise, even the children of the maids. God was fulfilling his promise of multiplying Abraham's seed by giving Jacob 12 sons and one daughter. That daughter had to be one tough cookie to grow up among twelve brothers! Notice that she did not have a tribe named after her.

I think that Jacob was told by God what to do with the flocks to ensure that his own would be built up far exceedingly to Laban's. He was not neglecting Laban's flocks at all, but living by the bargain made between them. I think Jacob was still learning how to hear God's voice and act on faith. So, perhaps the 'trick" with the branches was a test of faith.

On the other hand, being a shepherd, he may have known something that Laban did not know, as it was Rachel who shepherded Laban's flocks.

Either way, God was faithful and blessed Jacob and in the process of blessing him, God blessed Laban, too, and Laban noticed.

Gigi This is my simple summary Ephesians 3:20, Phil. 4:13, Ephesians 1;17-20, no man can say it any better, we actually do receive what we believe and act on.

Well it looks like in this chapter, the tables were turned on Jacob by Laban sending Leah in to where Jacob was following the marriage celebration. It was night, and we do not know what Leah was wearing or how dark it was for Jacob to not be able to discern that the woman he consummated a marriage with was not Rachel. But Jacob really loved Rachel and wanted her for his wife, so he was willing to work another 7 years for Laban in order to secure Rachel as his wife, too. I have always felt sorry for Leah. The "customs" of the time dictated that the elder daughter is to be married first, so she was given to a man who loved her younger sister.

Here we have another plural marriage in Genesis. Both Leah and Rachel were full-fledged wives, not concubine wives, and of equal standing. Of course tensions would arise. Jacob would have known that from being a twin. I am not sure what is meant when Laban told Jacob to complete the week with Leah. Perhaps it was the custom for a man to be wit his wife a full week without any other duties but to share the marriage bed. So, Jacob did, and then he took Rachel as his wife and most likely for a week's time just like for Leah. After that it doesn't speak of the arrangements of who has access to Jacob when and for how long. The text skips to the subject of the barrenness of both women until Leah conceived. Must have been very unbearable for Rachel to see her sister bear 4 sons and she had not conceived at all. Probably put a rift between the sisters in some way.

Since it seems that Jacob did not arrive at Laban's home laden with gifts for the family he would take a wife from, it appears that Jacob would have to work for his father-in-law in exchange for having Laban daughter/s for his wife/wives. Must have been customary for men to supply some kind of dowry in order to take a daughter for a wife.

It is obvious that Leah felt hated in this family relationship. I doubt that Jacob really hated her, he just loved Rachel more.

Well said.