Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 141

Thadena,

I am sorry if you find it difficult to understand. God is a Spirit and the Holy Spirit sets an ark with measurements. These are numbers. These numbers are also used in order to help the reader in what sense it is to be taken. Number 3 refers to the Trinity, the Son. Law of the Spirit has a number Seven. Law of sin and death is tagged by 10. It helps you to see from the context what the Spirit is telling us. May God help you to read the Bible with understanding.

Hello Debby,

I agree, God is faithful. I'm not sure which specific passage you are referring to but thank you! Also, can you please share a little more information on your last two statements, especially the very last statement as I am not quite understanding what mean by this.

Again, thank you, and blessings to you also!

S. Spencer,

I am definitely ok with you clarifying how you differ in thought than I do. Have a blessed evening.

Nice answer bro S. Spencer; never thought of describing Adam as a "one day old full grown man". The narrative & specific descriptions given of him & Eve lead us to understand that they were mature people who could tend to the garden, procreate & have the capacity to make decisions.

Gigi

I don't want to debate but I just want to clear myself from part of your beliefs that you posted.

The only thing you and I agree on is God knew Adam and Eve would eat of the tree of Knowledge.

I don't see how or why you worked the doctrine of election in this when it doesn't have no connection.

I don't hold the view that you do that God ordained some to Hell and some to eternal life!

We've debated that in the past and I am sure you know I strongly disagree with that.

I'm just making it clear to anyone else that may think I'm joined with you in that doctrine.

Again, I'm not wanting to debate this again.

I'm just wanting to make it clear to Kstott and whoever might not know that I don't hold that view.

Thanks and God bless.

Part 2

This pleased God. It is hard for us to believe this, but Eph. 1 says that this is true. Everything that occurs, whether good or evil is part of God's eternal purpose and He ordains everything that happens. If He did not ordain everything that occurs then He would not be absolutely and perfectly sovereign over everything.

God, in His wise counsel, in order to accomplish His Sovereign purpose, ordained that some angels and all humans would be sinful and under His wrath. Because He has ordained all these to unbelief so that He will give His mercy and grace to those He elected to be saved ( Rom. 11:32) and to condemn all who are not vessels of His mercy to suffer His wrath eternally in the lake of fire. ( Rom. 9:22-24)

These truth do make us bristle (which is the sinful nature rebelling against God's Sovereign right to do as He pleases). Yet, as believers, we should wish to submit to His truth and not to place our thoughts and reasoning over and above His.

God placed the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and the tree of life in the garden to bring about this fall of humanity into sin through the temptation of Satan in the Garden. God knew that Satan could not resist the opportunity to take evil advantage of the presence of two trees, one that gives eternal life, and the other that brings sin into the life of Adam and Eve. He had already fallen from His own pride, and He did not want God's inferior creation (in his eyes) to be given a place of blessing in God's presence.

So, the stage was set, and God knew what would occur because He ordained it. Whether of not Satan, Adam and Eve, new this or not we don't know. But giving Adam and Eve the command to not eat of the tree of good and evil would inevitably bring them to disobey and become fallen by sin and in need of redemption based upon God's mercy and grace. This redemption restores those who believe to right fellowship with God. which is something even Adam and Eve could never earn. Only God is perfect

Hello Kstott,

I think that S. Spencer gave a good answer to your question.



I believe that God knows all that is to be known eternally. He alone is able to know the end from the beginning o all matters and events and actions of His creatures. Eternally He ordained to put these two trees in the Garde because it was wisest as to accomplishing His eternal purpose according to His wise counsel and good pleasure to His glory ( Ephesians 1 speaks of this).

God eternally purposed to redeem a people for Himself through the Son. These are those He eternally elected to salvation and are united to the Father due to their union with Jesus, His eternal, divine Son.

Isaiah 55:8-9 speaks of God's ways and thoughts being higher than anything we could think or understand. So, answering your question does entail us mere creatures attempting to "pierce the veil" of God's infinite, perfect, and ineffable nature to find out why He chose to put these trees into the Garden. The best we can do is to believe that God did so according to His eternal decree and purpose for creation.

The Bible is clear that He created to bring Himself glory by exercising His great mercy and grace towards those He elected and to exercise His perfect judgment upon the wicked angels and those He did not elect to salvation. ( Romans 9 speaks about this). We also ought to trust that His overall purpose is perfect, good, and He delights in accomplishing it in time and space.

With these thoughts, I believe that God from eternity determined to ordain evil to come to be in His creation, first through the sinful angels He created good and who then chose evil and then in every human that He creates. He created Adam and Eve good, but He knew that they would submit to the cunning temptation of the evil serpent, Satan who was the first to sin. In their sin, an evil corruption of mankind's good nature occurred that then became the default nature of every human that ever lives.

See part two.

Hello Jesse,

Thank you very much! This passage of scripture reminds me of God's faithfulness.

He knows it's justified to kill to survive

He then, in dollars, makes more dead than alive

Blessings!

Hi Kstott.

(The tree of knowledge of good and evil)

Here is my viewpoint.

God gave Adam and Eve dominion over all the earth and to dress the Garden of Eden.

I believe evil existed on the earth, but Adam and Eve had no knowledge of it. (KEEP IN MIND SATAN HAD ALREADY FALLEN AT THIS POINT)

Adam and Eve was naked literally and figuratively (Uncovered or vulnerable to sin with no atonement for sin.)

I believe God put the Tree of knowledge of good and evil to give Adam and Eve a choice to obey Him or disobey Him, knowing they would eat of it. Without a knowledge of evil or transgression there is no sin.

THIS DIDNT CATCH GOD BY SURPRISE!

The Lord Jesus was ordained to come into the world as the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world AND TO REDEEM THAT WHICH WAS LOST before the world begun.

1 Peter 1:19-20.

Ephesians 1:4.

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. (The plan for Jesus's sacrifice was in place before the world's creation.)

Everlasting life was to never come by the first Adam but by the last. 1 Corinthians 15:45.

There may be different views on this.

God bless.

(1 John Part 27):

1 John 5:20 - And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

And we know that the Son of God is come, and has given us an understanding, and this is kind of interesting. The word means to understand the spiritual things of God. God has given us understanding of the spiritual things of God.

The purpose: In order that we might know Him that is true, and we are in Him that is true, even in His Son Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the true God, and eternal life.

Two great statements of fact, Jesus Christ is the true God, and He is the eternal life! Now eternal life is quality of life, and extension of life. If I have eternal life right now, it means I'm going to live forever. There's no end. Does He give me that? No, He is that! He lives in me, and He is eternal. So as long as God lives, I'm going to live. The quality that God is, I'm going to experience throughout eternity. Jesus Christ is eternal life!

This is all I have for 1 John. I will be going through 2 John next, Lord willing!

(1 John Part 26):

1 John 4:4 says, you have already overcome them little children, because greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world. So, I have overcome. It's a Perfect Tense. It's already a done deal!

1 John 5:14 - And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:

That's a factual statement. He hears us. God will answer every prayer that is asked for His will to be done, guaranteed!

1 John 5:18 - We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

We know that whosoever is born of God sins not; literally, does not continue in sin, but he that is born of God keeps himself, and again the word keep in the Greek text is guard, and that wicked one, or evil one does not touch him.

There are manuscript differences. Instead of keepeth himself, the oldest manuscripts say, the one who is born of God, God keeps him, guards him, and the evil one does not touch him. The word touch is the word HAPTO, which means to fasten onto someone, to grip onto and hold onto them. Satan can touch my life, but he can't have me. He can't fasten himself to me and take me away.

1 John 5:19 - And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lies in wickedness. And not just wickedness, because in the Greek text it's the evil one.

(1 John Part 25):

1 John 4:8 - He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

He that loves not does not know God; Here's the reason: for God is love. In Verse 16, it says it again. It's the only definition in the bible for AGAPE love. God is love. The verb for of AGAPE, AGAPAO, is found everywhere in literature. It's even used in the bible to talk about a love for the world.

But the noun AGAPE is only found two other places outside of the bible in all of the Greek literature. And the noun is strictly associated with God Himself. He is love. So, if you were to ask me, what does it mean to love my neighbor? Well, it's not an action. It's God!

1 John 4:11 - Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.

We are indebted. That's what the word ought means. We all know what credit card debt is. This is the same kind. God loved me so much that He sent His Son to die for me. I am indebted to my brothers and sisters in Christ to function and walk in the love of God.

1 John 4:21 - And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

And this commandment have we from Him, That he who loves God, and notice the factual statement: he that loves God, loves his brother also. It doesn't say should. It says loves his brother also. That's a factual statement. And again, the love is AGAPE.

1 John 5:4 - For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

For whosoever is born of God overcomes the world: That's a factual statement! And this is the victory that overcomes the world, our faith. It's the indication of a one-time belief in Christ at that time of salvation. The moment that I put my faith in Christ; I became an overcomer. I am overcoming, and I have overcome the world. We see this in Chapter 4.

(1 John Part 24):

1 John 4:4 - Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

He says you are of God, little children, and have overcome them (Perfect Tense). You have already overcome the spirit of antichrist, the spirit of Satan that's in the world. Why? Because greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world.

You see, everything comes back to Christ. The only way that Satan can take me away from Christ is for him to defeat Christ, and he can't do that. My spirit is filled with the presence of Christ, and my Spirit is sealed by the Holy Spirit of God forever!

When my spirit leaves my body, it's called death.

When I experience death, His Spirit and my spirit leave. His Spirit is intermingled with my spirit. He is there now, and I will be one with Him throughout eternity. That's the promise to the believer. It's a gift. But we have to repent. We have to acknowledge our need and pray for His mercy on us to save us.

(1 John Part 23):

1 John 4:1 - Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Beloved, stop believing every spirit. That is a command. Notice it didn't say teacher. It says spirit. Behind every teaching is a spirit. Now a false teacher isn't somebody that makes a mistake. Maybe they skip over a line, forget to read a line in the scriptures, or make a human blunder or something. That's not a false teacher.

We're talking about the whole presentation of where the person's coming from, the whole principle of whether we're violating the very heart of what God's word says, and introducing some new age teaching from the bible that's vogue in our day.

Also, a minister's sermons and teachings, they are not from God. Only God's word in truth, contained in the message, is the word of God. So, the minister or pastor is just up there. And it's not whether they make mistakes or not, it's whether the Spirit of God is moving through them to present and give the truth of what the text is saying, the true concepts of God.

Stop believing every spirit, but test the spirits (plural), whether they are of God: why? because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Thank you

Hi Kstott.

Good question!

I personally believe Adam was a one-day-old full-grown man.

God bless.

Diane

I will continue to pray for her. The Lord's will will always be done. He holds our life in His hands and all of our days are known to Him. So we can trust Him. Is she a believer?

These passages are really deep & l don't quite understand them. It's relating the ark ,Noah built to like the levels of our salvation? Could someone help explain this intricate scripture for me. Even though l pray for understanding of God's Word, there are a lot lam not sure how to decifer. I can do more research but the verses about the ark & how it relates to the measurements, l don't understand. Not yet anyway! Hopefully someone can shed some light on all this

"Gen.6.15 Measurements of the Ark"

"And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits."

The ark is a symbol, a sign where the suffering Christ the just for the unjust is established in the inalterable will of the Father. So we are to see in the measurements the numbers used shall be made manifest to warn us wherein our path to salvation lay. "In the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water./The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us" (1 Pet.3.20-21)

As mentioned in an earlier post the number of condemnation is 10. This was in the measurements of the tabernacle in the wilderness. The Christ as the head and the church as his body was introduced by Adam. This bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh does not require actual presence of Jesus Christ in the Ark but as the word become flesh, the word of God frames his world which is the kingdom of his dear Son. It is Up and Down as well as Across,

The Length is made up of the generation of Jesus 3x100 while Height is 3x10. This multiple of 10 proclaims to the perishing world "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."( Acts 4.12)

Breadth of 5x10 cubits refers to the soul. Under the emblem of the Lamb slain the soul of man in danger of hellfire has been already redeemed. "For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul."(Lev.17.11) Comparing the lay-out of the tabernacle in the wilderness three compartments refer to the body spirit and soul. In the case of the ark we have three decks. The tabernacle opened to the east continuing the east as God set the salvation moving across.

Philippians 1;19

Thank you for sharing the thoughts on Philippians chapter 1. Verse 19 in particular.

I see Paul precisely connecting his salvation " (honest expectation and hope) " to his own Prayers but also the value of THOSE praying FOR him.

The Spirit strengthening him in his

Ministry. We are all one in Christ Jesus. God is Love!

" The blood still works." Amen!

John 8:19

"Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also."

Blessings

Gen.6.14-15 "After this fashion"

"Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch./ And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of:"

Compare this passage with God's commandment to Moses. 'According to all that I shew thee,' The everlasting Covenant is a pattern delineating the Father Son relationship. So is the Word, sound of which has already sent forth.The sign is likewise is established. The unseen world of divine Will has set Noah as a sign accordingly. In the covenant the volume of every man blessed of God shall be same since the Fellowship of God with Man is patterned after Man. Jesus Christ is a sign where the fullness of God fives every aspect of the ark hold. As some sect misrepresent it, the ark is not in a limbo to survive the great flood dependent on chance. Jesus Christ the same, yesterday, today and forever. What was conceived in the unseen world, the ark represents the world framed by the word of God complete in all respect.

"Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear." How many years he was busy with building an ark or how many labourers were put in for the task is irrelevant. "Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he."(6.22) The ark is not made of things which curious mind may fathom. As God sent his only 'begotten Son and it also tells that the Word was with God sent Jesus in appointed time as Son of man. After this manner God places Noah as a sign for the world to which his Son would be sent. 'His own did not receive him.' Similarly there shall come when his Son sits on his throne, "Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?"(Mt.25.44-45) This is also a world where the worlds framed by the word serve as symbols for the kingdom of God. The kingdom of God is among you.

How old was Adam when god made him.

Why did God put the Tree of Knowledge and good and evil in the Garden of Edin.

Gen.6.3 "This day"

" And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years."

God decreed a day for his Son. "I will declare the decree: theLordhath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee."(Ps.2.7) This is 'now' in the case of anyone who is blessed in his Son. For God time and space is irrelevant for the reason his eternal will and his Word abides as fulfilled in his Son. "while it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation,"(Heb.3.15).Thus 'this day' bears a tag which never changes. The Law of the Spirit gives us the 12x12 as bearing upon which we deal whatever business we would. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. So the gospel of God and of the Son holds the world of the Spirit. Since the fall of man sin entered into the world the Spirit set the number of condemnation as 10. God shall not contend being a Spirit with what man in his corrupt flesh may do. He that is holy let him be holy still is one way of putting it. Here the Spirit sets in terms of numbers. 12x10 is a measure so the ark of Noah carries of multiples 10 to indicate his world. The ark has three stories to indicate his body spirit and soul.

"In my Father's house are many mansions" This is evoked in ' rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch." Within and without explains how we fortify our every day lives from the corruption that is in the world. Imposter churches teach the opposite. Their activism is like a sieve so 'Southern agenda' or CUFI bring in results to favour their polical handlers. "and the height of it thirty cubits," Three is a command number for the Son."Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ."(Eph.4.13). The ark embodies the fulness of Christ.

Gen.6. 11-13 "Corruption"

"For all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth" God is telling Noah what He intended to do. Earlier we saw an example of 'his way' that was the wrong way. He made aprons of fig leaves and it was his way of making the world, without addressing his sin. "Dead flies cause the ointment of the apothecary to send forth a stinking savour" How shall man fare in his way forward when his sense of direction was lost? (Eccl. 10.1) Without God he was lost. Their ways differed while the Covenant between God and Man was set. The Spirit now gives us a lapse of time. " And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth," Sin of disobedience made the world corrupt. Therefore God tells Noah, "For the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth."

'I will destroy them with the earth mean precisely their ungodly ways and their world. God framed the worlds by the word of God differentiates natural man as distinct from Noah. Noah and his family of eight souls represented the world among those who had rejected the ways of God. This world represented the earth that abides forever. It represented the Son who made the will of his Father appear. Theserfore the holy Spirit includes Noah as a hero of faith in this world. Without was godless men who corrupted their world with violence.

Holiness of God made the Covenant everlasting and the Spirit is setting the Noah episode as a Kangaroo event where the larger story of the Father Son relationship shall bring in the salvation of a holy family through their baptism by water and by fire. What we need keep in mind is that the provision of the volume of man blessed in the Son is exemplified in case of Noah consistent with the Covenant. The ark serves as a microcosm of the kingdom of God as the garden of Eden was.

Pam, I will pray for your family.

Dear T-Rex

I have prayed for you to receive relief and healing from your ailments and I will continue to remember you in prayer when I bring my own aches and physical weakness before God. It is always good to keep others in mind when things flare up in my body. I see these as reminders to pray for others who are facing similar and even ongoing physical ailments and limitations as I face.

Also, I hope that you will continue to add to discussion on this forum as I have found your input thoughtful and helpful.

The earlier passages (verse 19) showed how prayer would bring what Paul called his "salvation". The famous verse 21 shows that indeed that to live is Christ; and die is gain. Paul's entire life was centered not on his physical imprisonment and suffering but the state of the churches he had founded as well as focusing on evangelical opportunities during his confinement and the hubbub of those outside where even those against him still in their own way continued to spread the Gospel.

25And having this confidence, I know that I shall abide and continue with you all for your furtherance and joy of faith;

26That your rejoicing may be more abundant in Jesus Christ for me by my coming to you again.

As stated from verse 19 Paul's salvation mentioned is clearly a physical one; and that he expected fruit from the prayers. It is noteworthy in Paul's imprisonment along with many previous saints that much latitude was given for him to give wisdom to the guards (as we see with the shipwreck in Acts); and to be able to frequently have others meet and pick up his writings. We see similar accounts with Daniel in the O.T. and of course Joseph when unfairly jailed in Egypt. Certainly different situations occurred in different places. As we see today; a pattern exists where jailing usually begins with a day or two as was experienced by the Apostles early on in the book of Acts; then more lengthy imprisonment and eventual martyrdom in many cases. We don't see either Peter or Paul dying from natural causes but that would be expected in most cases. He knew He would be there in this case for their benefit and no doubt other churches; by 2 Timothy 4:6 he knew his time was at hand.

Sadly he would see many abandon him and he warned once again about Apostacy to come which began in his final sayings to the Ephesians of deception to come there in Acts 20 starting in verse 13. In short; our victory may in the end leave us isolated; few run to the end to recieve the trophy.

Phillipians 1:15-18 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:

16The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:

17But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.

18What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

Apparently there was preaching that contrasted in the character of the vessel used to operate; as some in the church addressed to thus far and encouraged in this Epistle were with those who simply wanted to add fuel to the fire that would lead to further blame of Paul as being the "chief rabble rouser" with his Apostolic call.

Today at our small group it was brought up about a certain street preacher putting up with mocking; and specifically some of the stuff mocking the communion as I have noted in a particular rap superstar recently. What we are in reality vs the caricature proliferated by the elite in society today and their minions still brings up conversation about God; Christ and the Bible however convoluted the messenger if only one person looks to the truth God can work despite the most evil intent.

Verses 19-26

19For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,

20According to my earnest expectation and my hope, that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but that with all boldness, as always, so now also Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether it be by life, or by death.

21For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

22But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.

23For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:

24Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.

to be continued...