Bible Questions & Discussion PAGE 79

Idol worship

August 21, 2024's Newsweek Article, line 1 Conservatives are raging over the arrival of a 90-foot tall statue of Hanuman, a Hindu deity that is half-human and half-monkey, in Texas.

This is not the first nor will it be the last idol to be erected. In this case; at least it is apparently on the private property of this religious group so technically not like the baphomet attepted to be placed in a library several years back.

There is supposed to be another huge 50 foot idol someplace in Canada unveiled recently. We can expect these things to continue to proliferate; and sadly scenes of people prostrating themselves before such statues are also recorded in recent days.

As I've said at least several times in the last few years on this post; there is a process involved between where men run from God's presence knowing that the judgments of God and Christ are coming; seen from Revelation 6 and the end of the seal judgments to where men openly fight against Christ; no doubt made a certainly once they recieve the mark of Satan and the demons drive them to head to Armageddon.

It is sobering to look at pictures of Hitler as a baby; for instance and to realize the monster that was to come. Man is estranged from the womb ( Psalm 58:3). We know; however that two people born in the same situation can be radically different once they grow up so circumstances can't be responsible for ultimate outcomes of the state of men's souls; it is choosing sin over the alternative as men love darkness rather than light as John 3:19 states. We need to remind ourselves of this reality; this is only 3 verses after the famous John 3:16 verse. If we truly repent then we let the light expose our deeds and we ADMIT our wretchedness; in order to turn around and away toward Christ who then remakes us into a new creation ( 2 Cor. 5:17).

In the case of Hitler we see a forerunner of Antichrist; a man worshipped as a god drawing in the masses. Such an event is overdue.

Ties with Revelation

Having studied; briefly the city of Jericho we can look in Revelation with God's direct judgment on His enemies and realize the same principles apply. First let's gain a few object lessons here; some are things I have stated before.

1) The Lord knows when men's hearts are hardened; or sin is at the full. Genesis 15:16 says And they shall come back here in the fourth generation, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete." This verse is several verses after the prophecy of Abraham's descendants being in Egypt for 400 years; another time marker where at the end therof their attitude would change and God Himself would harden Pharaoh's heart so that judgments come upon him. I say all this because it wasn't for lack of evidence any of these conquests occured; people if it were possible could repent; and again Rahab is one example.

2). Idolotry. The above verse about the Amorites shows a progression of evil; and one of the greatest sins of idolotry was child sacrifices that occured. Psalm 136:35-38 warns:

But they mingled with the nations

And learned their practices,

And served their idols,

Which became a snare to them.

They even sacrificed their sons and their daughters to the demons,

An AI search indicates 90 verses on this subject. It is throughout many passages in the Old Testament and it seems unbelievable enough that these nations did these detestible practices but on a whole other level when Israel imitated these abhorrent actions. It is odd that we don't seem to hear much preaching on this subject because it makes the destruction of the wicked make so much more sense.

At any rate; we can see destruction of those who were afraid of God because they knew of His power and wanted to escape the consequences of their actions but not truly repent to salvation. In this Age of Grace we see God's patience but can't be presumptive that it will last forever and judgment lingering still is coming. Ward of warning.

There was not a city that made peace with the children of Israel, save the Hivites the inhabitants of Gibeon: all other they took in battle.

20For it was of the LORD to harden their hearts, that they should come against Israel in battle, that he might destroy them utterly, and that they might have no favour, but that he might destroy them, as the LORD commanded Moses. ( Joshua 11:19-20).

This is one of a number of passages that explains difficult teachings; in this case not complex but brutal to contemplate; namely that of the destruction of entire cities through killing every person alive.

Now we see in the first chapter of this book that Jerico had already heard of Israel's deliverance and victories in the past with Egypt. In Joshua 2:10-11 we read: For we have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red sea for you, when ye came out of Egypt; and what ye did unto the two kings of the Amorites, that were on the other side Jordan, Sihon and Og, whom ye utterly destroyed.

11And as soon as we had heard these things, our hearts did melt, neither did there remain any more courage in any man, because of you: for the LORD your God, he is God in heaven above, and in earth beneath.

This is the famous Rahab the harlot who undoubtably will have a much better new name in heaven. The wonderful story of her redemption is indicated in recognition here of the true God of heaven and earth and her preservation from death and showed tenacity and cleverness with perseverance which is evidence of her true faith at this point. It also shows there was ample warning for these nations. The first passage here in Joshua 11 also shows there was an exception with the Gibeonites who used their own deception to fool Israel into making a covenant with them. Now there is no doubt that God already planned to preserve them; but my point here is that this brought them to servitude but soon after they had to be defended and God used this to draw the other nations to fight.

Hi Brother Ronald.

I will get to your reply at my earliest convenience.

I'm posting from my cell phone and don't have the time to proof read or interact.

Thanks and God bless

Hey S Spencer,

I thought the discussion was about both the Rapture and the 1000-year reign of Jesus. I understand there are different interpretations, but I believe it will be an actual earthly kingdom with Israel restored, with Jesus sitting on the throne of David. We see the beginning in Revelation 20:1-4.

All who are in the first resurrection will be judged; these will reign with Jesus as king in Israel over the entire world. Regarding Isaiah 2:2-5, I am not sure if it refers to the whole world or just the restored land of Israel, where animals experience peace and harmony, like when they were first created.

We see the gathering and restoration of the remnant of the house of Israel within the boundaries of the land God promised Abraham, as mentioned in Isaiah 2 and Isaiah 11. We also see references in Jeremiah 23:5-6, Ezekiel 37:21-28, Zechariah 9:9, Daniel 2:44, and Matthew 19:28.

Thank you, brother. I could list more, but I believe these passages demonstrate that this kingdom and the rule of Jesus will be on this earth, and He will govern with a rod of iron, as in Revelation 12:5, during the time Satan is bound in the bottomless pit for 1000 years.

God bless,

RLW

Thank you Bible Alone for those worthy thoughts. I do agree with what you shared in the most part. The matter of "Christ, God Himself, spoke in parables; and WITHOUT A PARABLE SPAKE HE NOT, throughout the ENTIRE BIBLE", is difficult to understand. This is mainly because of the clear presentation of Jesus' parables and where he often explained their meaning to those closest to Him (for it was given for them to know the meaning). But if we think of God speaking in parables (maybe throughout the OT and NT), it would be very difficult for me to discern what are parables and what isn't.

If "God uses the term "Israel" or "Jerusalem" or "Lamb" or "water" or "land", or "church", etc.", I usually understand what He is teaching, but I think you are referring to another way of understanding this. Maybe you could give a couple of examples, using the words you gave, to show what you mean. I can see the different uses of those words, but fail to grasp anything more than that, if that is what you are sharing here. So examples would be very helpful. Thank you.

Hi Gigi.

Wow Gogi!

Bullying?

Was it Bullying when you talked to Lbooth?

You have attacked dispensationalism for years!

You said you hate the way they interpret scripture especially eschatology yet you admit you know little about eschatology!

I have always returned to you the same respect that you give and some!

There is a lot more can be said here!

I don't mind you criticizing my way of interpreting the Bible but give me an point of view from your studying of scripture rather than what these secular and historical readings state!

You can't use historicalal Christianity beliefs to settle all doctrine all the time!

Also what ever doctrine you hold know something about it other than secular readings!

If you are Post Millennium show why so in the scriptures.

If you cannot that's fine!

That is perfectly fine Gigi!

The issue I have with you is that you take what little you know in this area and attack the way dispensationalists interpret!!

Why don't you consider yourself bullying when you take a shot every chance you get?

Gigi I wouldn't want anyone to give me a pass and I am certainly not going to give anybody a pass especially if they belittle my way of interpreting scripture and refuse to give reasons using scriptures!

I'm not saying debate anyone but you could have atleast use something Scriptural to support why you refuse the answers you got.

I certainly don't know all there is about scripture but I always give an answer using scripture why I oppose a view.

If I can't I sit it out!

By the way it also bothers me when you call us "those dispensationalists"

You make it sound like some occult.

I will be starting this Millennium topic soon.

It will be just to see how others derive to their viewpoint to show how one might become dispensationalists whether he know it or not, amongst other things.

Thanks for hearing me out.

God bless.

Page 3. GiGi.

Whereas, neither of these portions of Scripture correctly resemble Matthew chap 24, as the gathering of the Elect are those of Israel and the world who turn to the Lord during those Tribulation days. We don't see any resurrection or rapturing of the saints, since that had already taken place before the Day of the Lord's Wrath. This in-gathering of the Elect from the four winds is to reign with the Lord in Jerusalem, as was first expected & awaited for by the Jews in their Messiah. Whether one believes that the Great Tribulation is God's Wrath or not; or it begins at the outset (Anti-Christ's appearance & the falling away), or a few years later with the coming of the two witnesses ( Revelation 11:3-13), is not really the question here. The question is whether the rapture of the Church & resurrection of the dead in Christ happen pre-Wrath or post-Wrath: do believers face God's Wrath alongside unbelievers (post-Wrath) and then taken away or does God remove them earlier for they do not deserve to be punished with Christ-rejectors (pre-Wrath)?

Page 2. GiGi.

1 Thessalonians 5:1-10. Agreed, 2 Peter 3:10 speaks of the Day of the Lord coming unexpectedly with the major upheaval of the heavens and Earth, as does Paul, who possibly infers that there is a wider time frame or meaning regarding that Day ( 1 Corinthians 5:5 & 2 Corinthians 1:14). In any case, it involves all things associated with Jesus' Day of appearing. So here in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-10, Paul iterates that that Day will come suddenly, thus it being a useless exercise to attempt placing it in a time frame, but as the Church is the children of God living in the light and not as those who live in darkness, that Day would not suddenly come upon them. Rather they should be comforted and fully clothed with the Spirit because God has not appointed them to His wrath (of verse 3) but to be saved from this through the Lord Jesus' (v9). If this saving from God's Wrath is to refer to His Wrath against man's sins, then there appears no reason for mentioning this in this context. His Wrath here is anger towards unbelievers at that time who will face His "sudden destruction". And to give further support to this meaning, we can look at 1 Thessalonians 1:10, Paul stating that the Church was "to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come".

Yes, Matthew chap 24 is about Jesus' Second Coming and particularly Matthew 24:29-31, that the powers of the heavens will be shaken, Jesus' appearing in the skies, the tribes of the earth mourning, and the gathering together of his Elect from all over the world. Some would assume that not only this scene is connected with 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:51,52, but also that the Elect referred to are all those in Christ. To Page 3.

Page 1. GiGi.

Apologies GiGi, have only now been able to devote some time to respond to you.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Thessalonians 5:1-10. I would agree that if we take the 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 on its own, then there may be room for other interpretations. But Paul has devoted a part of this epistle to answer the believers' question (and fear) that those believers who died before Jesus came would not share in His Kingdom (v13). That they too will be resurrected by God as certain as God had resurrected His Son (v14). This verse may also imply that the spirits of deceased believers will come with Jesus, as God sends them with His Son. Still on the matter of those who have died before Jesus comes, the apostle states (as given him directly from the Lord), that the dead will rise first, before the living saints: that's how important this resurrection is; that when Jesus comes, the priority is to those who have died and raised to life, and then He will lift the living unto Himself, so all believers in their new bodies will rise into the sky to meet their Savior, to ever remain with Him (vv15-17).

How is all this important & pertinent to our discussions? I shared the above for one reason: that we should see that what Paul taught here was not just some nice comforting reassuring words to the distressed perplexed Church, but to show that this was a special act of God to extract His people from what He would begin to do to the unbelieving world. And of course, this 'extraction/rapture' is singularly different from what is given us when the Lord Jesus returns to overpower/destroy God's enemies & commence His 1000 year reign on Earth, in Jerusalem. We simply cannot fit this removal of the saints into the sky with Jesus in any other part of the teaching of Jesus' second coming. To Page 2.

Gigi,

I am butting in here. But then you 'pontificate' that there is good way, I am interested to hear it.

What point is in discussing in a forum if you are not willing to launch forth as our Saviour advised? Forever discussing and never coming to truth is what you are condemned to do here. From what I have seen it is more catervauling than music at the manner the members are playing on one string of their pet heresy.

OK Millennium is the present thene: One day is like Thousand years vice versa. God has decreed one day for his Son. Ps.2.7. So the Spirit usess 'unto this day' consistently. Similarly this day, in that day are all pendent to this day. It is called the generation of Christ. Gospel of St Matthe bigs with it. All generations of Abraham or David must come up in frame of reference to his generation. Since I acceptedJesus Christ as my Saviour I entered into this Millennial Reign. I am not perfect but in reining in many worldly passions and inclinations on a daily basis I am reigning with Christ. I am a branch to the true Vine. If I do not study the word by the grace of God I am nothing. Know-things may speak in this forum till they turn blue. It may be OK for them but I want to know the immeasurable riches and I can only do so by launching out to the far and also depths. If you call it hyper-spiritualising it, so be it.

The Song.2.16-17 "Bether"

"My beloved is mine, and I am his: he feedeth among the lilies."

These two verses capture for me the entire spirit of the Song. My beloved is mine.' It is Christ intended here. The Spirit invites us to recall the kinship of divine relationships in terms of man and woman 'This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh.' (Gen.2.23)The Spirit uses the term 'strange woman' to distinguish any other doctrine. "Her feet go down to death; her steps take hold on hell."(Prov.5.5). Seventh-day Adventists, Calvinists and every aberration you name it, smells of carnal wisdom. They are 'strange' since the bone to bone and flesh to flesh interaction is contrived and artificial. Simplicity in what Adam said for us defines what faith is. Sin of Israel was established when they wanted another king than God. They have had many kings ever since. King David was historically elected but in the day of regeneration he shall be a prince and no more. "and my servant David shall be their prince for ever." Forever is a tag for Jesus Christ. King David is appointed a deputy,"and my servant David shall be their prince for ever."(Ezek.37.25) The curse of rejecting Jesus Christ proved their curse was running. In the outer darkness, it is prince David. Strange doctrine has created two worlds apart one built upon mount Zion and the other the mountains of Bether, so called for their ruggedness.

In the key text we have another sense:

"Until the day break, and the shadows flee away, turn, my beloved, and be thou like a roe or a young hart upon the mountains of Bether."

Until the day break, refers the day of regeneration when Christ takes control, new heaven and new earth is revealed. What of heresies? They are the shadows, put to flight. The bride has no fear, 'I know in whom I have believed'."Be thou like a young hart and over the rugged terrain, Christ is in his element. "From the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth."(Ps.110.3)

Thanks Brother Ronald.

I thought that was on the rapture however I will look it up.

I'm looking to see people's interpretation on the commonly used scripture describing the Millennium. Like passages out of Isaiah 65 or so. Thanks

I'll get back to you later.

I'm off to work God bless.

Erratum"

The last but one in the last para,

"Those who read seven days in the first two chapters and make it to mean also are fools. They are not fools for Christ."

Please read as,

"Those who read seven days in the first two chapters and make it to mean a week also are fools. They are not fools for Christ."

How well should we read?

Reading the Word of God works best for fools like me. I am a fool for Christ. Unabashedly so.

God is a Spirit and as a God document every word counts. Those who accuse me of 'hyperspiritualising',by the way the word itself is a misnomer, how can you go more spiritual than God? It pleased God that in his Son all his fulness dwell. So every word where the context and meaning is true, it is truth indeed. Besides the interpretation must be for the glory of God. When God first presented his first begotten Son to the world, He said,'worship ye him." And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him."(Heb.1.6)

A dispensationalist who cuts up God a Spirit in seven 'dispensations' does so,-it cannot be from the same spirit which is indivisible. Holiness it is called so fulness of Christ is in tact. Be ye hoy, for I am holy.' Thy word is truth so our sanctification comes from the word. Jn.17.17. Those who read seven days in the first two chapters and make it to mean also are fools. They are not fools for Christ. They belong to another gospel and another christ.

Hey, that was a good angle. I can see that where we are located, we might also be the first fruits. Thanks for the reminder. Love u

MotherMac

Testimony :..:

I am so grateful for this site. I thank God for all of you . Thank you for your prayers.

It helps me to grow. It inspires me to appreciate all the blessings and benefits God provides for me everyday. I believe in prayer. Many days I read the name of each commenter and say a prayer for All.

"Peters words. "His eyes are over the righteous and his ears open to their prayers."

Psalms 66:16-20

16Come and hear, all ye that fear God, and I will declare what he hath done for my soul. 17I cried unto him with my mouth, and he was extolled with my tongue. 18If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me: 19But verily God hath heard me; he hath attended to the voice of my prayer. 20Blessed be God, which hath not turned away my prayer, nor his mercy from me.



Luke 2:14

"Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men."King James Version (KJV)

You do not read me, Bro,Spencer?

I read you and I get a kick out of it. It did not make me wiser, so I recall Woe to ye sermon of Jesus, which verse is it, for you to find out, Mt.23 I can help so much the rest is up to you,

Philippians 2:3 "Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves."

Blessings

John 14:9

"Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?"

John 10:30

"I and my Father are one."

Blessings

If you need food go to your local food pantry. I will pray for you.

Page 3. Ronald.

Revelation 6:12-17. Even as v17 states, "For the great day of his wrath is come". These verses seem to show the fullness and culmination of God's Wrath. But what if verses 1 to 11 are also a real part of God's Wrath, where war, famine, death, & martyrdom occur in greater measure than previously seen on Earth. I realize that some understand these verses depicting the state of the world & sufferings over the centuries as the various seals are opened, but could the opening of these Seal Judgements occur in fast order, demonstrating that something supernatural (i.e. out of the ordinary) is now occurring, which culminates in the shaking of the heavens? Anyway, will leave it that for now and thanks again for your input which was indeed very thought-provoking. Blessings.

Page 2. Ronald.

And of course Paul writes in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3: "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition". To assure the believers in that Church, Paul writes that the Day of Christ's appearing and our GATHERING TOGETHER UNTO HIM, will only come after a falling away & the revelation of the Anti-Christ. After this happens, Christ appears & we are gathered (the Rapture & Resurrection of 1 Thessalonians chap 4?) unto Him. Then the Great Tribulation begins, as God's Wrath is displayed first in its infancy (the removing of His Restrainer), then with increasing suffering, culminating in Matthew 24:29,30.

Your reference to Revelation 12:12 has bearing on the whole chapter and I perceive we don't understand it the same way and it would be too long to exegete here. Then to Revelation 19:7-9, comparing with Revelation 21:9-11. I can see the connection that the Lamb's wife is the New Jerusalem as stated here, but when we read Revelation 19:7-9, we see that 'she (the New Jerusalem?) hath made herself ready; she would be arrayed in fine white linen which is the righteousness of the saints (can a city or a people be so arrayed?); and there is to be a marriage supper (with a city?)'. This can be quite confusing if one is to believe that Jesus is marrying a city. Or maybe, there are two references: of a city & the Church represented together in marriage. I can't tell. To Page 3.

Page 1.

Thank you for your input here bro. Ronald. From my little research, I agree with you that when we consider the writings of the early Church fathers, there was generally an understanding of a rapture, but not necessarily a pre-tribulational one. So, it could well be that Darby, Irving, Scofield, et al, pushed this teaching which has become accepted by many today. However, as I tried to convey in my post to GiGi, my position on this is not based on the beliefs of those venerable men, but from personal Scriptural examination of associated Scriptures.

To state, I don't believe that the Rapture of the saints is a resurrection. My understanding of a resurrection (and I could be corrected), is that one has to be dead first to be resurrected; the Rapture I don't see as a resurrection, but a 'catching away' of living believers. And with the deceased being resurrected, they come out of the grave (or wherever) and stand on terra firma & not being raised to enter Heaven. And these resurrected saints, will go on to reign with Christ during His Millennial Rule. Reference to this will come up when I respond later on to GiGi's comment to me.

Re: the Great Tribulation & the Wrath of God. I can understand that this phrase (Great Tribulation) can certainly imply 'a greater intensity of suffering and persecution than before'. But why do I connect this with the Wrath of God? In 2 Thessalonians 2:6-8, Paul writes of the Restrainer removed by God so that not only will The Anti-Christ appear & be installed, but all the horrors associated with his rule will fall on Earth's inhabitants. I see that as a pre-cursor to the Great Tribulation (of God's Wrath) commencing at this time, when God initiates an act to bring forth a time of suffering leading to greater suffering for those decided to spurn His Love. To Page 2.

Brother S Spencer,

I believe in a future millennium rule of Jesus and can give scripture.

God bless

RLW

Hey brother, S Spencer,

I replied to brother Chris on this subject. It is hard to keep up these days, the posts don't stay long if you don't copy and store it.

God bless,

RLW

S. Spencer,

In reading this posts I will be sitting it out as you suggest. I am staying true to the reason I gave for asking for Scriptural support for dispensational beliefs and not because I plan to refute them.

It is interesting that my giving information about dispensationalism and also disagreeing with some of their beliefs called by you an attack. My goodness, S. Spencer, if you gave information about covenant beliefs and stated that you disagree with some of its beliefs, I would not consider that an attack. It has been very apparent that you have been bothered by my expressing my thoughts on this topic for some time.

I do not think it is your place to definitely state whether I am following the lead of the Holy Spirit or not. You should be praying that I will do so!

I do look forward to reading what you will share, but please know no one on here is obligated to share how they interpret Scripture or to follow your directives for how others should be posting on here. So, please, calm down, and give people breathing space to learn and grow.

I am beseeching you to be a better person in this situation. I know that you can be and we can have more gracious interactions in the future. it is not that I am opposed to criticism, or that I am personally hurt by the way you speak to me, rather, it is how you speak like you know my intentions, my inner reasoning, spiritual state, or what I include in my private study that I object to because these are things you do not and can not know of me.

Again, let's be peaceful with one another.

Dear S. Spencer,

I guess this shows that I am open to consider and perhaps align with the point of view another is making from Scripture. That is probably better than to be so set in ones theological approach to Scripture that one cannot even consider that an adjustment in thought may be in order.

At the time we were discussing the millennium in the past, I had not studied the topic much. You gave me some Scriptural support for you view and I appreciated that. As I studied further, I have said I fall more in the amillennial camp but not so totally. I also told you that I am still working through this topic. I would appreciate it if you would allow me grace to do so.

You are wrong to say that I study Christianity rather than Scripture. That is a low blow, S. Spencer, as you do not know how much I study Scripture or Christian topics, but you are assuming you know. That is wrong of you.

If I do get to where I will share more on this topic it will not because you have bullied me into doing so.

Whenever we have a discussion on topics concerning dispensational beliefs and eschatology, you treat me in a hostile way and denigrate me with unkind comments. So, I have to really be prayerful about if I will engage with you or not. I do not treat you the way you treat me.

I asked some important questions seeking biblical answers. This is a good thing. It is not out of line for me to hope to get adequate answers. And it is also not out of line for me to wait for another time to explain my biblical perspective. And in this instance, I will wait.

I have shared many postings explaining how I believe using Scripture. It is not a foreign thing for me to do as you seem to be implying. We are here to edify one another. Let's do that.

We should be able to discuss where we differ by sticking to the topic and not by throwing barbs at one another.

My desire is for peace and I believe we can have that in this discussion if you are willing.

Dear S. Spencer,

I agree that the practice of hyper-spiritualizing Scripture is not a good way to interpret Scrpiture.

Bennymkje I had one of your posts show up in my email.

I didn't read it and is not interested in a dialog with you.

In the past we had a conversation or two but when you got out of line I decided to not read anything coming from you.

I hope you can respect that.

God bless