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Q: "The woman has a place prepared for her" (12:6) while in v.14 the two wings of a great eagle are given to find her place, of her own choosing obviously. For what purpose?"
A: We shall find from earlier instances so the actions are consistent and true; secondly from the event leading to. Lastly the divine Will as expressed.
in the vision of Daniel(12:5-8) the River Ulai is set within his visual frame so Daniel is a spectator as well as a player, standing on this side of the vision. The man clothed in linen with his gesture"he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, " indicates he represents heaven." The river is the river of time, and times ("that it shall be for a time, times, and an half") are already decreed. Now we have a second instance in Ge.ch.32 where Jacob is in a crisis. It shall lead to what is referred as the testimony of Jacob. In his prayer "for with my staff I passed over this Jordan; and now I am become two bands."(Ge.32:10) explains the meaning Mahanaim. Again a river separating two bands. Literally as well as a heavenly pointer to what was to come. Fearful of the safety of himself and his family he sent them over while he is alone. It is decision time. Earlier the angels of God simply passed the message from the throne. This division set by the river of time shows the choice: God or mammon? Later comes his encounter with the angel. He shall come out from there as one having no more confidence in his flesh In short, across the river of time on one camp we have God and on the other Esau and his four hundred men. By the same token those who shall be led by God to the place prepared for them and it is called Zion.("For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation,"-Ps.132:13)"Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice."(Ps.50:5) The second band find their own level which is the earth. It is a rubble, outer darkness.
By all means you agree or disagree to what I believe as true and have here set forth (consistently supported with passages from scriptures). So let us leave at that. I believe by light of the Spirit there is a pattern to which everything else merge and to express the truth I do not care for my age and health but by God's grace I am renewed daily. I cannot be false to the revelation which is solely for the glory of God. Amen.
May I disagree with your interpretation of the woman in Rev 12?
Is is about Israel? Definitely yes. Is it about the left out christians? Well, personally I do not think so.
In Rev 12:2, the woman "being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered." or the people she represents are now starting to know Jesus, they didn't know Him before. And eventually she " brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.", the child being Jesus. They now believe in Jesus. Being in pregnacy may show that that will not be something that will happen over night. It will take sometime and during that time God will not leave them unprotected.
The left out christians, the 5 foolish virgins in the parable, know Christ, they are believers, have been baptised in the Spirit and now have to go through the tribulation to keep their salvation.
In Rev 12, the woman is brought in the wilderness by God to be protected so that satan/dragon can not kill her chid, take away their faith in Jesus.
The left out christians will not be protected by God this time, they had their opportunity to escape all that by participating in the rapture but they took no advantage of it. Their light, their sanctification was not adequate to get them in the rapture which means that they were having sins in their life. Now they have to stand firm in their choice and go through the knife to be saved. There is no other way for them. Rev gives us a glimpse in heaven on them, they are the souls in Rev 7:9-17 and Rev 6:9-11.
It is not the same with Israel who now under the great tribulation will turn to Jesus. They had not any chance to go with the rapture. The round numbers 12X12=144 may show that the entire Israel will believe and that agrees with what Paul says in Rom 11:25-27. Why does God stamp only those 144 th? Because the rest, the left out christians have been already stamped before the rapture.
Somebody is hacking this site. My record shows 1285 comments and 19018 amens. This is about 15 amens per comment for all my comments since the begining. Obviously it can't be so.
Q: What does the verse12 in the vision of John signify? The great eagle refers to the Lord Almighty is it not? If so why the voice from heaven, cry,"Woe to ye?"
A: Yes and No. Let us put the whole verse ,which is exclaimed from heaven."Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time." How did the devil come down to you'? We read of "mighty men which were of old, men of renown," (Ge.6:2,4) and the mingled people mentioned in Ezra 9:2 began from here. The two camps of angels that Jacob saw at Mahanaim, refer to angels, cloud of witnesses as well as fallen angels that corrupted the earth. They are like two wings of an eagle. In our times also we see that Israel is helped by the spirit of disobedience working in the world. So the word of God says, "woe to ye" Celebrity culture did not pop up out of nowhere. What makes Elon Musk rant? Devil knows he has but a short time. The place chosen for the woman in wilderness is not from God. "And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.(v.14) The holocaust under the Nazi regime is part of the line,"he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child."(v.13)
The two wings the great eagle that refers to v.6 is of God. They are grace and truth which establishes the other camp of angels that Jacob beheld. "And Jacob went on his way, and the angels of God met him./And when Jacob saw them, he said, This is God's host: and he called the name of that place Mahanaim." (Ge.32:1-2) The place name in Hebrew means two camps or two companies.
Q: Do the remnant of her seed refer to the nation of Israel or to left-out church?
A: Both. In the vision the woman after dislodged from her preeminent position is helped on the earth and we have two distinct narratives. This verse is a transition point before the beast and the great tribulation are introduced. The last verse in this chapter says, "the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."This discounts the nation of Israel per se. In order to understand we need to set them in context of the sealing 144,000 in Ch.7. They are Christians but left out from the main event, rapture so we shall say these are the mingled people nevertheless redeemed by their stepping in the breach even as Seth did. As Jesus says in the Parable, "Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?"(Matt.20:15-16) The same quality of his Son is made manifest in the many numbers of martyrs. The tag 144 (12x12) refers to the gospel of Christ. (144x1000). They have a quality that they are redeemed from the earth.(Re.14:3)
"And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood."(v.15) Behemoth "(he) is the chief of the ways of God) belongs to the earth,"Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth."( Job 40:23,19). By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent." This may refer to crocodile or Rehab or behemoth. "The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil." (Pr.16:4)
Let us be specific in our prayers regarding abortion, the peace in Jerusalem, harming the children, reading His word and acting on it. Our leadership to find CHRIST as their SAVIOR. The LORD to direct us in our prayers.
GOD to shine His face on us daily.
September 21, 2024
A bit of information about the grk in John 21. About "phileo" and "agapao" both meaning "to love" in anc grk.
Firstly Jesus was not talking to Peter in greek but in Hebrew. Is there such a distinction in the Hebrew language too? Personally I don't know.
John in his gospel, John 21:2, is using "egapa" (past tense, 3rd third person), describing Jesus who loved John.
In v 15 & 16 Jesus asks Peter if he loves Him ("agapas me?", do you love me?, question, third person). Peter answers that he loves Him ("philo se", I love you, first person)
In v 16 Jesus asks Peter again if he loves him (question and answer both use the verb "philao")
So it seems that at that time both verbs had the same meaning, for "to love".
Going back in time the verb "phileo" is older than "agapao". The latter started to be in common use sometime during the 3rd century BC, although it can be found in Homer's Iliad (8th century BC). By the time of Jesus both verbs were in use for the same thing, it is obvious in John 21. Later on, "phileo" had been abandoned for "to love"
Also, philia=friendship, philos=friend, philo/philao=also means "to kiss" (in both anc and mod grk), phili=kiss
agape=love, agapao/agapo=to love (for all kinds of love), eros/erotas=in love
I agree with you. "There's a similarity between the description in Revelation 12 and the description that Joseph gave of his father Jacob (Israel) and his mother and their children in ( Genesis 37:9-11).
The twelve stars refer to the twelve tribes of Israel. So the woman in Revelation 12 is Israel.
Verse 5 says that the woman's child was "a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne." Clearly, this is describing Jesus.
Thanks and God bless.
GOD to shine His face on all who have believed and trusted in the gospel of the LORD JESUS CHRIST.
Bless our nation, FATHER! For without You we are nothing. John 17
September 21, 2024 Titus 2:11-14
god is good all the time
Also , I know someone who speaks very convincingly on the idea that in Revelation they represent flags , the twelve stars are part of the European Union flag , muslim countries flags all have a crescent moon on them and Japan's flag is a sun . I don't hold with this interpretation myself but he makes a good arguement for it .
Just presenting a couple of different prospectives for discussion purposes , hope you don't mind that . Always read through your messages and appreciate them .
Proverbs chapter 1 verse 20 , do you understand metaphor ? If not , look it up and try to understand it . Proverbs is poetry , poetry uses a lot of metaphor . Proverbs chapter 4 verses 5-9 . For the sake of poetry , many things that are neither male or female , are referred to as such . Had it occured to you that the son could be referring to Jesus , the Son of God ?
The Bible is full of metaphor , there's plenty of literalism in there too . Sometime things in the Bible can be literal and metaphorical at the same time . The more you read it the more familiar you will become with these concepts . Yes , it can be confusing at first , but don't let that put you off .
5 Sing unto the LORD with the harp; with the harp, and the voice of a psalm.
6 With trumpets and sound of cornet make a joyful noise before the LORD, the King.
Thank You LORD JESUS CHRIST for the grace and mercies that are new every morning! May we, who claim and worship You, walk in the same manner that will glorify You because You so richly deserve it.
GOD to shine His face on all the brethren that we remember to give ourselves as living sacrifices daily, "...holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service."
GOD bless all on this platform!
September 21, 2024
September 21, 2024
12 Rejoice in the LORD, ye righteous; and give thanks at the remembrance of his holiness.
Praise His holy and precious name. I will choose to worship my SAVIOR in truth and in spirit. FATHER, bless our nation and our leaders with the desire to call on You, and learn of You. LORD JESUS CHRIST shine Your face on us and teach us to be "peculiar people" zealous of good works.
September 21, 2024
Q: "It is obvious the Spirit served the vision of John in Ch.12 as a counterpoint to the inaugural vision of Jesus Christ holding seven stars in his right hand. It evokes the vision of Daniel all the terror of judgement which is set in the books already opened. Are they all alike and as interchangeable?"
A: The Ancient of Days is the Law of the Spirit figuratively expressed and also Jesus Christ the Word become flesh. In his majesty with seven stars in his right hand poses the question,"Yea, before the daywasIamhe; andthere isnone that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?" (Is.43:13). The stars are the churches. Seven expresses perfection where life and the Law of the Spirit merge. The Dragon has seven heads and seven crowns but the ten horns sets his judgment at time appointed. So whosoever enters six days in the everlasting covenant but do not enter the seventh day (Ge.2:1) he is accrsed as the beast who is qualified as the son of perdition. He has also as many horns."having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy."(13:1) The reason is simple. in refusing the Law of the Spirit he has become the son of Satan. It is thus the Woman loses her position and whatever name sons of Adam may have that does not restore former glory. From outer darkness the saved nation may move up as sons of God are caught up to the throne. The earth is condemned for fire notwithstanding. The volume of the holy city of God does not recognise their former names. The new earth means that everyone shall have accordingly a new name "To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it."(Re.2:17) It explains "the the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever."(Dan.12:3)
Q:"For ever, O Lord, thy word is settled in heaven." Where do we see the Gospel of God in working while we follow the woman displaced from her position. Or the vision of John sets the will of God in terms of Jesus Christ, in mid-air the earth and in lower parts?"
A: We saw in Ch.6 with the breaking of the first four seals the riders setting out each after the path appointed by God so the rider on the white horse ses forth to conquer and conquering. In Ch.12 "And there was war in heaven:" (vv.7-8) As a result there are fallen angels. Angels "which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day." Re.12:9. The angels in v.9 are part of the corruption of mingled people that shall leave its taint till that great day. In this context we shall look up the significance of 120 days in Ge.6:3. Gospel is set in terms of "After our likeness" so 12x10 is not as many numbers but those who shall find their way into 144,000 in Re.14:1. Because God chose them. They turned around their own lives about the Law of the Spirit which refers to Ps.119:89
One point to remember what we are talking about resurrection having their own order does not apply here since the vision is the will of God all mapped out in entirety. For this reason Jesus shall see,"And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven."( Luke 10:18) The woman preserved in the wilderness carries number of days which is Gospel based. " And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days."The tag of earthly ministry has its own significance (v.6) as "where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time,"(v.14)
Lastly Noah is set "after our likeness' So the volume of the Man is set in terms the ark as the holy city of God has is volume for each saint. (Re.21:16-17)
Q: "What is the significance of the stars, the moon or the sun in the vision of Ch.12 if the woman is not the chosen one?"
A: First of all the stars are part of the ensemble the the Gospel of God signifies. "And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.""(Dan.12:3). They denote the cloud of witnesses, and it is Person specific. Son as the soul of God witnesses, whch is what our inner man signifies in us. This being the case what is the significance of God making man a living soul? The gospel of God is preached and it is the very breath of God. All it requires to open your ear of faith. St Paul explains the process. "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God./But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world."(Ro.10:17-18). The number Twelve is expressed in terms of the Son. The command number Three and Gospel of God is consistent throughout, which gives us 12=3x4. This is the basis for the four and twenty elders arranged about the throne of heaven. They represent the heaven earth and the lower parts, (3x8).
Now we shall consider the rest of the regalia that made woman 'clothed with the sun'. The woman was called to occupy a position so when the Spirit speaks,"And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed."(Ge.2:25) glory of God was her covering. It is what the Spirit intends with the vision. It is for our spiritual instruction. Power and Wisdom are expressed in glory but with the fall of man the Gospel did not work well in her case. Her loss of position is a commentary on Re.12:4. "And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth". Sons of Adam listened to heresies peddled by false teachers. They serve as the tail of the crooked serpent. (Is.9:15). Their works shall show up in heaven.
I'll be traveling back home from vacation on Monday, so I hope to be able to spend more time with these studies once I get back home. I have about a three-day drive ahead of me and should be home Wednesday. I'm glad you're enjoying the studies.
Blessing to you also!
Phileo Love.
The passage in John reminds me of Matthew 12:48-50.
"But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Thanks and God bless.
I have prayed for your friends in ICU. Always good to hear from you. God is able to answer all of our prayers as He sees fit, whether miraculously or not so much so. We can trust that He always does what is good and best for us, His children.
Do not have doubts, there are some things in Scripture we cannot come to a firm indisputable answer. Scripture does not contradict Scripture man does that. 1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die. Then we have Hebrews 11:5 Enoch was translated that he should not see death. Then add John 3:13 no man hath ascended up to heaven, John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father.
What is the answer? We must trust that the Holy Spirit will show us the truth we need and if we have doubts that will hinder the Holy Spirit. Can we come to an answer without any assumptions? In Hebrews 11:5 Enoch was translated, what is translated, the Greek word metatithemi means to transfer, to change, to fall away or desert from one person or thing to another.
Did God translate Enoch to heaven? Enoch should not see death; the Greek word here is Thanatos meaning a physical or spiritual death. So, did God take Enoch to heaven? Enoch was 65 years old when he had Methuselah, it says Enoch walked with God after he had Methuselah for 300 years. This could mean Enoch changed and his faith in God was strengthened and he was serving God and God saved him from spiritual death, not physical death. There are only two men before the flood who are said they walked with God, Enoch, and Noah.
We may not ever have all our questions answered there are things that God has yet to reveal. The main thing is not to have doubts, sometimes we can be so focused on an answer to something and be like a dog chasing its tail going round and round and just can't catch it. We can be distracted and not be focused on what God wants us to do at this time. I have done this in the past, just ease your thoughts on this and open your Bible to any random place and read and let God's word wash away any doubts you have. Lose the doubts and pick this up later it is not that important.
God bless,
RLW
Q: "The reference to Zion travailing in labor the Spirit sets forth in a vision and it is assigned to John and not to Isaiah? Who does the woman clothed with the sun represent? What is the significance of Zion and man child in Isaiah ch. 66?"
A:
Let us take the verse " Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child." Before refers to the phrase, 'In the beginning'. Ge.1:1)The foregoing verses prove that it is so. It is about the heaven and is a throne and God asks,"And where is the place of my rest?"(66:1,7). The v.7 makes it clear that the man child has to do more with the covenant God enters with the Man, (Ge.ch.1) leading to the rest of God in Ge.2:1. Forget about the nation of Israel or about the church of God on the earth.
Now for the verse from the vision, in Re.12:2 "And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, ". Who is she? The woman is the mother of all living and her travail is on account of man's sin of disobedience. (Ge.3:16,20)
"Before she travailed she brought forth" is the voice of the Lord and it has a sign. Death on the cross is obliquely stated but the foundation is a stone, "Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone"(Is.28:16)
"And she brought forth a man child,"(Re.12:5) The man refers to the covenant he represents soul of every believer who abides in him. It is preserved in heavenly places which explains the unseen world of the divine Will. His soul body and spirit made man as one. (Ph.2:6-7) Inner man is a proof this sanctification:" For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one". It explains the redemption of our bodies. (Ro.8:23). Thus our faith has its upper end where we abide in Jesus Christ while we are in our bodies, "but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." That is faith with works. (Ro.12:1-2)
"Has the Spirit worded the birth of Cain to indicate that the first man was earthy? Apparently Eva names him to indicate the truth of Pauline dictum in 1 Co.15:47. (Ge.4:1) By the same token would you say Eve called Seth the one appointed by God after the similitude of the Word?"
A:
Similitude as a principle works between the unseen world and the world made to appear so one may say appointed by God .(He.11:3).The The same conflict between body and the spirit of man has their context in the creation. The word of God frames the worlds, which is the sound and also a sign. Thus the Word made flesh is the key to understand the nature of Similitude. God a Spirit, the Voice of the Lord and is also a sign. (Is.7:14) Similitude brings all knowledge of the holy as understanding so only faith can settle the matter. (Pr.9:10) Eve understood the role of Seth without having to be told or put in so may words, Seth was appointed by God to be after the similitude of the lord from heaven, "the second man is the Lord from heaven.". Why second man? Seth is after the likeness of Jesus Christ. The word is already set. "that in all things he might have the preeminence. (Col.1:18) The covenant where man is created "after our likeness" explains the similitude. Jesus Christ the Lord from heaven represent man in the everlasting covenant.
This also explains the significance of 'Abide in me" aspect of the Similitude. "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out"( John 6:37). What it is do the work of God but believe in the one whom he sent. Those who abide in him are dead to world of sin and are in heavenly places. The Mahanaim experience of Jacob tells we live simultaneously in two places so St Paul would despair, "knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:/(For we walk by faith, not by sight:)"(Ge.32:1-2. 2 Co.5:6-7)
Q:"How valid is the assertion that Jesus Christ epitomises God and the Law of the Spirit in the everlasting covenant? Can you give a coherent example?"
A:
God created Man "in our image and after our Likeness" Whosoever may enter into this Fellowship of God with his Son has to meet both requirements. Man with his tripartite nature possess body, spirit and soul. It only refers to 'in our image'. After our likeness applies to the Word or the Law which was with God and was God. God a Spirit where the Father Son relation places Jesus Christ as the soul component so when God sent him as the Word made flesh. So John refers the Son of man as "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory)" and "And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace."((1:14-16) Jesus Christ is the face of the Law of the Spirit, in bodily form. In being conformed to the image of his Son set Christ as the Head of the body. So after his likeness explains our groying from glory to glory. (2 Co.3:18)
The Psalm 139 delineated by David sets this aspect of soul and David himself is set "a man after my own heart; he will do everything I want him to do."(Ac.13:22)
A few examples we shall consider:"Thou hast beset me behind and before, and laid thine hand upon me." (139:3) The sovereignty of soul is with God. 'Behind and before' refer to the worlds unseen and made to appear. Laid thine upon me' is David's confession that he is blessed in the covenant.(Ge.1:28) " Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?/If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there./If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;/Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me." Here we see David identifying with death and resurrection of his Son. So his soul is after his likeness,- and as God says, "he will do everything I want him to do."
Q:"Seth is mentioned only twice after his life is told. In Ge.Ch. 4 he seems 'as appointed by God' to serve the same office as Jesus the branch. Can you explain?
A:Out of the root of Jesse we have a Branch, "and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:"(Is.11:1) Certainly a Messianic prophecy which is applied to Seth as well. God's curse on serpent, "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel," is basically the enmity of the Law of the Spirit and the law of sin. (Ge.3:15) Serpent was cursed under the head of the latter. The sons of perdition arises from this point. Evidence of this enmity we have in this line, "And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel."(He.12:24) Abel's blood cries for vengeance while Seth quietly stepping into the breach made by Cain is after his likeness.' God sets his after our image, the soul aspect. Whereas Seth serves as the role of fulfilling what Jesus would have done, When God calls David as a man after my heart. "'I have found David son of Jesse a man after my own heart; he will do everything I want him to do."(Ac.13:22)
Eve chooses the name Seth inspired by the word as he does as Jesus Christ the Word made flesh would have done. " For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew."(4:25)"Another seed refers to the sons of God (Ro.8:14) while Seth is according to the flesh, son of Adam,' after his likeness'. Salvation offered by Jesus refers to the generation of Jesus Christ. (Matt.1:1). The Spirit sets the context by the life of Seth, by delineating a holy family, appointed by God' another seed.