All Discussion PAGE 506

Amen Brother Chris!

John 3:18 belongs to Jews Gentiles and the Church.

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

God bless you!

Happy Mothers day to all you Mothers on this site.

May the Lord bless you this day and many more!

Hey Oseas, historical context is of upmost importance in this section. The fourth beast was the Roman Empire, while the "little horn" that came from among it was the rise of the office of the papacy. Daniel was shown this "succession of empires" using these symbols, whereas king Neb was shown the succession in the form of the statue back in ch 2.

Jo.1:1-In the beginning was the Word,the Word was with GOD,the Word was GOD.

The Word of GOD is from everlasting to everlasting,the Word is GOD, GOD Himself,self-executing.

Job 22:

15Hast thou marked the old way(century/es before)which wicked men have trodden?

16Which were cut down out of time,whose foundation was overflown with a FLOOD:

17Which said unto GOD,Depart from us:and what can the Almighty do for them?

18Yet He filled their houses with good things:but the counsel of the wicked is far from me.

19The righteous see it, and are glad: and the innocent laugh them to scorn.

20Whereas our substance is not cut down,but the remnant of them the fire consumeth.

21Acquaint now thyself with Him,and be at peace:thereby good shall come unto thee.

22Receive,I pray thee,the law from his mouth(GOD's Word),and lay up his words in thine heart.

23If thou return to the Almighty,thou shalt be built up,thou shalt put away iniquity far from thy tabernacles.

24Then shalt thou lay up gold as dust( Genesis 2:10-11 ),and the gold of Ophir as the stones of the brooks.

25Yea,the Almighty shall be thy defence,and thou shalt have plenty of silver.

26For then shalt thou have thy delight in the Almighty,and shalt lift up thy face unto God.

27Thou shalt make thy prayer unto him,and he shall hear thee,and thou shalt pay thy vows.

28Thou shalt also decree a thing,and it shall be established unto thee:and the light shall shine upon thy ways

29When men are cast down,then thou shalt say,There is lifting up; and he shall save the humble person

30He shall deliver the island of the innocent:and it is delivered by the pureness of thine hands.

Eze.14

13Son of man,when the land sinneth against me by committing a trespass,then will I stretch out mine hand upon it,and will break the staff of the bread thereof,and will send famine upon it,and I will destroy man and beast forth of it

14Though these three men Noah,Daniel,and Job were among them, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousnes

Please remember me and my family today in your prayers, please pray for all the Mothers today

Praying for Oddie, in Jesus' mighty name! Only He (the Lord) is able to do the impossible. I believe for your brother's health restoration and that he will be brought back to his family! Stay encouraged, do not lose faith! Give praise to the Lord, for He Is good, and "His mercy endureth forever!" - AMEN

Praying for Darius, in Jesus' mighty name! Victory, salvation and restoration!

Be encouraged, keep praying and believe! Glory to God!

Dear Brenda,

I am praying and I believe for your family's salvation, in Jesus' mighty name! Cease from worrying and give praise to the Lord. I agree with you and I know, the Lord will complete and bring to fruition your prayers, be sure!!!

Stay well, dear sister,

Blessings,

your sister in Christ,

Stella

Praying for your grandma in Jesus' Mighty name!

Memorial in heaven- The Angel of His presence. (3 of 3)

In the inaugural vision the four living creatures appeared to Ezekiel, Looking up it showed the prophet over them "was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it." God was on the throne but still He rode upon the wings of the wind in a manner of speaking. Ps.104:3-4

How he executes justice and judgment is illustrated by the living creatures. The important point is to note the man and angel nexus. Without heaven and heaven being in agreement no scale can be applied to determine the righteousness of God. The Angel of his presence is represented by cherubim in the second vision. The number four denotes the Word as the Law. It is thus the holy city of God is measured in Re.21:17

"As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle."(Ez.1:10) We are shown the same with slight alternations, in Ch.10. "And every one had four faces: the first face was the face of a cherub, and the second face was the face of a man, and the third the face of a lion, and the fourth the face of an eagle./ And the cherubims were lifted up. This is the living creature that I saw by the river of Chebar."(10:14-15).

We see the angel appearing to the parents of Samson and to Gideon. "And the angel of the Lord said unto him, Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it is secret?" (Jud.13:18) Yet the children of Belial would want to put names over what the Holy Spirit has chose not to reveal. Holy Spirit as tongues of fire point out to the rapture. "For it came to pass, when the flame went up toward heaven from off the altar, that the angel of the Lord ascended in the flame of the altar." (13:20)

Memorial in heaven-Wings (2 of 3)

" For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ." ( John 1:170 Recalling the Ps.89 quote gives us mercy and truth going 'before thy face." Taken together we are witnessing here the spirit of Christ which are symbolised by eyes."And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth."(Re.5:6) Ezekiel also gives us the vision of God, "And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above."(1:22). 'The terrible crystal' evokes the sea glass on which the throne was set in Re.4.

Coming back to the memorial we know the six wings of the four beasts shall never change. The four living creatures testify that th Law of Moses shall be replaced by grace and truth with the Advent of Jesus Christ. This is reinforced by the night vision of Daniel, "The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked"(Dan.7:4). The two wings records not only the cessation of monarchial rule in Israel but the installation of Christ as the Lord. This are what two eagle wings in Re.12 signify. "And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child./ And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent." (12:13-14). The two wings signify grace and truth. The remnant in Israel and the left out church shall face tribulation but God has prepared for them a way.

Trinity is not only body but also Spirit and soul. The four living creatures help us to understand the Spirit of Christ and Soul are forever in tact.

Memorial in Heaven- wings (1 of 3)

God has set His throne. God "who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:/Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire".(Ps.104:3-5)

In the last series on Trinity St John gives as a memorial where seven lamps of fire indicate fire shall test everyman's work on the work. We are His workmanship so the body as a memorial in heaven testifies the tabernacle of God among men leads the salvation plan of God to its finality. New heaven and new earth is how it shall look when the Son has fulfilled his Father's Will.

"Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever."(v.5)

His throne in heaven radiates qualities: Justice and judgment are the habitation of thy throne: mercy and truth shall go before thy face."(Ps.89:14) In the inaugural vision of Ezekiel we see God riding 'upon the wings of the wind."(Ez.1:4)

And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire." What does the infolding fire signify? It is sent for specific purpose. Whirlwind coming out of north indicates Judgment. The living creatures are four in number having four wings. "Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of a man./And every one had four faces, and every one had four wings." They were sent to execute justice and judgment. But the memorial of the four beasts had six wings each. Where did the two wings go? They are revised and in lieu of wings they have two rings full of eyes. "The appearance of the wheels and their work was like unto the colour of a beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel."Vv.16-18)

These represent mercy and truth which goes before his face.

I'm a Christian. But I'm very poor and in physical bad health. My adult daughter is also poor and disabled. We need a home. Thank you for praying.

Well; as usual you have a better grasp on the subject with examples from the Bible to back it up. Perhaps it would be accurate to say that the primary APPLICATION of discipleship is with one to one interaction (or small group); and the secondary application is to read about how we are to act in the scriptures. Your example shows this with the parents being the tool to effectively render these truths to be alive in their kids who eventually mature enough to allow them to continue fueling their walk with the Bible and practice it eventually with their own children.

Conceptionally; as well you are more mature than I am. Postulating such an idea perhaps is foolish; as I tend to put down my thoughts in these posts without thinking about it. In one sense I deliberately posted this to get a better idea (learning myself as well as getting people to think about the subject).

I could have examined something like Baptism as a secondary application with initial salvation from God's granting of repentance as the primary one; and also based the thief on the cross as an example. Again it is somewhat nebulous since salvation is always the most important thing (baptism without true faith doesn't save anyone; but yes it is necessary as a declaration of faith and disobeying such an ordinance serious implication our public confession is not right and of course shows poorly as to us being a mature disciple).

Maybe I need to step back from the frenetic pace of these postings. I fear it is too often to garner attention although I don't deliberately set out to put myself on a pedestal or in a spotlight. Is it wrong to wrestle with issues and deliver these messages before taking time to seriously pray about them and seek His face? I do want to press on and continue to minister as well as love His Word by considering many matters on this site. I am doing this realizing in the future I probably won't soon have the time to do this once my parents are deceased. Advice?

Addendum to discipleship.

In my last post after I got wiped out AGAIN the first time I forgot to elaborate on the verse of the servant who said he wouldn't do something and later does; and vice versa. ( Matthew 21:30). We need to test the validity of a true disciple over time not instant following; that concept is also true for identifying who is truly saved; and corresponds with the parable of the "good fruit".

Another thought before I attempt to get into what seems clearly "secondary issues" I will also add to this discussion by stating that someone who is a true disciple has to make the hard decisions to go against church leadership or bring a disciplinary issue up with the church if one on one with a rebellious brother proves futile. This would include and I fear increasingly so these days challenging those who are teaching errant doctrine; no matter how esteemed the minister. If we aren't willing to be jealous for His Name's sake; we may end up with a church being much the same as the Temple was when Jesus had to clear it out overturning the moneychangers tables; that is a house of merchandise that is literally selling out the souls of men under it's roof. This is following in Christ's footsteps; and walking in the Spirit means we love the things He loves; and hate things He hates.

Furthermore; being a disciple means standing up for brothers and sisters who are being persecuted; even to risking our own lives when necessary. I won't give a manual on the subject as it varies depending on the situation we are in; protecting our family and whatever the Lord brings into our lives as a challenge in this area. Nonetheless; it is how we take seriously verses such as Matthew 25:36 which I believe is ultimately fulfilled in the Tribulation which will determine those who are saved by their behaviors when all of God's people are imprisoned or killed for their faith and support anywhere in the world will guarantee our lives are in jeopardy.

Good evening Richard,

To enter into this conversation on the topic of discipleship/evangelism.

Deuteronomy 6:4-8 came to mind as the Israelites were commanded to teach their children according to the ways God proscribed to this chosen nation.

I think that this verse applies to the church in that we are to teach sound doctrine to those who come into the church by faith in Jesus. Since there was not Scriptures printed for all to read and that not all were able to read, it was important for the leaders to read the Scriptures they had access to and to teach what they learned from the apostles in order to encourage growth and maturity among the believers. Just as parents are responsible for bringing their children up in the faith, those who bring are brought into fellowship are to be brought up in the faith taught by the apostles. So, I don't think that either evangelism nor discipleship are primary or secondary, but both are vital to the health of the individual (to hear the gospel and grow in doctrinal knowledge of God and His ways) and the church (to preach the gospel and disciple those who are babes to become mature and able to teach others Scriptural truths). Some are gifted and called more specifically for evangelism and others for discipleship. While it is only by faith that one is saved in Christ, the church is tasked with discipling converts and babes in Christ. Paul did plenty of discipling in his letters to the churches he had planted.

It seems to me that God wills for every believer to grow in their faith and knowledge of the truths taught in Scripture, and, even though we do not need to be perfect in every way to be saved, it is valuable to each believer to be discipled and to learn to feed themselves on the Word, its truths and to grow into a life of willing service to God.

Jesus defined eternal life this way: to know the one true God and Jesus. This involves a right relationship with God, but then we are to grow in grace and in the knowledge of God.

please pray to JESUS that my granmas dementia goes away and her meomry gets better and she lives a long life and he heals her chronic pain and that she would get saved before its to late

my grandma is most likely not saved please pray for her i love her so much and my grandpa too

3/3-RESTRAINING-2Thes.2:7-10

Actually,the SACRIFICE of JESUS SHALL BE TAKEN AWAY when the Beast like a lamb,the MAN of sin,son of perdition(the little horn)sits in the temple of God-JERUSALEM-,shewing himself that he is God-2 Thes.2:4-,then the abomination of desolation will stand in the holy place,THE DAILY SACRIFICE OF JESUS WILL BE TAKE AWAY BY THE JEWISH FALSE MESSIAH in the second half of the last week by 1260 plus 30 days,I would say the current Dispensation of Grace gets to the END with this terrible and SATANIC event through the Jewish false messiah(2Thess.2:9),and the establishment of the abomination of desolation in the holy place or sanctuary.

Revelation 11:1-2 reveals how will be the FIRST half of the last week (1260 days),ended the FIRST half,the false messiah,an esoteric, kabbalistic and spiritist messiah,will be enthroned in JERUSALEM-spiritually called Sodom and Egypt,for 1290 days,the sanctuary will be cast down.

Blessed is he that waiteth,and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.Dan.12:12.Yeah,day 1335,the Ineffable, Wonderful,Indescribable,Unspeakable day,the day 1.335. Hallelujah!

2/3-RESTRAINING-2Thes.2:7-10

The sacrifice of JESUS until the current time lasted around 727000 days-THE DAILY SACRIFICE WILL BE TAKE AWAY WHEN THE JEWISH FALSE MESSIAH-THE BEAST LIKE A LAMB( Revelation 13:11-18 and John 5:43-47SIT IN HIS THRONE IN JERUSALEM- THEN THE PLACE OF THE SANCTUARY WILL BE CAST DOWN, as was prophesied by Daniel. Daniel 7:7-8 & 11.

Dan.7:7-and behold a fourth Beast,dreadful and terrible,and strong exceedingly;and it had great iron teeth:it devoured and brake in pieces,and stamped the residue with the feet of it:and it was diverse from all the Beasts that were before it;and it had ten horns.

8-I considered the(10)horns,and,behold,there came up among them another little horn,...and,behold,in this(little)horn were eyes like the eyes of MAN,and a mouth speaking great things. Yea,he(the little horn,by his mouth)shall magnify himself(magnified as God)even to the prince of the host(it is Michael- Revelation 12:7),and by him (by the Jewish false messiah-the little horn)the daily sacrifice will be taken away,and the place of the sanctuary will be cast down.

The false lamb/messiah( John 5:43),he is also a Jew,and he is from one of the 10 tribes of Israel, maybe from the tribe of Dan as Jacob prophesied- Genesis 49:16-17. He shall rise up from the earth-from Israel-from one of the ten tribes of Israel-HE IS THE LITTLE HORN.

The false lamb- John 5:43-has two horns like a lamb.Two horns represent the two kingdoms of Israel,but he will rise up from one of the 10 tribes,as prophesied Jacob. Genesis 49:16-17.

1/3-RESTRAINING-2Thes.2:7-10

7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work:only he who now letteth will let,until he be taken out of the way.

9Even him,whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

The prophecy on the RESTRAINING be taken away,it didn't fulfill yet, of course,but will LITERALLY fulfill in days to come,would say in this current decade,and it only after the end of the FIRST half of the last week,when the next and last Pope be elected,i.e. week 70th Daniel 9:27,actually it will occur only when the Abomination of Desolation be established in the 2nd half of the last week for 1260+30 days.

The current Dispensation of Grace gets to the END with this terrible and SATANIC event,I say through the manifestation of the Jewish false messiah( John 5:43-47, Revelation 13:11, 2Thess.2:9), and the establishment of the Abomination of Desolation in the holy place.

Who is he who now does not let the MAN of sin,SON of perdition,a former Cherub,be manifested among his own people(Israel),and also before the whole Gentilic world?The Complete Jewish Bible-CJB says the MAN of sin is at work secretly,in other words-KJV-,"the mystery of iniquity doth already work",but it will be secretly only until he who is restraining him is taken out of the way.

Well, there are three that bear witness in Earth,the Spirit,the water, and the blood:and these three agree in One- 1John 5:8.The blood is the blood of JESUS that was shed on the cross;the blood of JESUS is the millennial sacrifice of JESUS that REMAINS until the current time for salvation of souls,AND WILL REMAIN until it BE TAKEN AWAY, WHAT WILL HAPPEN ONLY AND ONLY IN THE SECOND HALF OF THE LAST WEEK,WEEK 70th DANIEL 9:27,WHOSE EVENT IS NOT SO FAR FROM THESE DAYS,IT MAY OCCUR IN THIS DECADE .

GET READY.

Heavenly Father,

I give you thanks for these young men precious lives. Father, I pray you intervene and have your way. God, we acknowledge your word. Luke 1:37 tells us "For with God nothing will be impossible". God bless these young souls with healing, deliverance, joy, strength where it is needed. Amen

In the name of Jesus, God hears your every word and I pray that God uses you for his will. Remember his word Proverbs 3:5,6 tells us that he will direct our path.

In name of Jesus, I am thanking the almighty God in advance for your full healing and recovery. Amen

"Camping out" on the theme of Discipleship

29'I will not,' he replied. But later he changed his mind and went. 30Then the man went to the second son and told him the same thing. 'I will, sir,' he said. But he did not go. 31Which of the two did the will of his father?" "The first," they answered. Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God before you.

( Matthew 21:29-31).

We see through Romans 8:30 the idea of being called; justified and glorified without any mention of sanctification implied through discipleship. We can look at immature believers in Corinth who likely died in some cases without really being effective disciples. Nonetheless; we want to ensure that as Paul says in Phillipians 3:14 that we run for the prize. Crowns given for ministry; patient endurance or martyrdom don't come easy or to all but nonetheless since it affects our stance and spiritual authority under the King at least for the Millennium if not all eternity these are vital goals for us to pursue!

When we consider the Great Commission and God's calling for us to go and make Disciples of all men in Matthew 28:19-20 we certainly see that emphasized; and that seemingly over the concept of just leading men to Christ which of course is part of what it means to teach all the things Jesus meant and taught to His own on His earthly ministry.

The concept of personal sanctification and becoming separate from the world; therefore is also part of our growth as well as teaching others to be FOLLOWERS of Christ and the sacrificial lives that should accompany their declaration of salvific faith.

It has been stated and I wholeheartedly agree that today the message of coming to Christ is often watered down. This often is to keep attendance up and money coming in from unscrupulous church leaders. It also comes from the misguided notion that we may say something to scare someone off unnecessarily. We must share hard truth with love.

Primary or secondary applications: An open ended question.

In the last few hours I have wrestled with the question of discipleship and whether it is primary or "secondary" in importance.

First of all I need to categorically state that it is still VERY important and indeed necessary if we are ever going to be "sold out" for Jesus to ensure that we truly are disciples; and that of lasting ones that aren't going to walk away like many Jesus challenged on His way to eventually being crucified on the cross. Taking a brief internet survey of this subject there are varying opinions. It seems that one can be saved without being a disciple at least the level of commitment Jesus described. The thief on the cross would be one example; there was no time to work through issues like Jesus did with the 12 Apostles He chose as His primary disciples. The Corinthian church also stands out as a place where immature believers sometimes died before their time and had many other issues; clearly not acting as a mature disciple at least in terms of submitting their lives to the Lord.

The church changed over time; and although other churches also had issues it would seem certainly that the many admonitions written in Paul's Epistles and Peter and John's writings of the same were primarily to build believers up in the local churches to live as worthy of the calling; and hence good disciples.

If we are saved; we are ultimately justified and glorified ( Romans 8:30). We don't see sanctification there as would be expected as a true disciple; but again we certainly need to grow in this way to recieve spiritual rewards in heaven (Phillipians 3:14; also see other verses about crowns for service; ministry; patiently waiting for His appearing; etc.) Just because it doesn't necessarily determine our ultimate fate to lose out on what will be at least for the Millennium if not all of eternity our spiritual position in heaven would hardly be unimportant. I'll leave this open to debate

Conclusion of primary applications and themes of scripture

1 Corinthians 10:11 says: Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

This verse helps to tie in the examples; both good and bad from various characters and narratives in the Bible so that we can understand the temporal and eternal consequences of our actions; and hopefully learn the fear of the Lord as a result. The moral principles of the Lord never change; even if we study the lives of those under the authority of the Old Covenant vs. the New Covenant. The souls of all men are mine ( Ezekiel 18:4) states God. Therefore; it is just as true that not one "jot or tittle" of His word will fail ( Matthew 5:18); the spiritual laws in scripture of conduct are as certain as the natural laws that every man lives subject to.

One more point I want to cover before wading into the waters of the subject of secondary themes and applications is that although it usually involves large swaths of scripture and repeated concepts throughout with many cross references most of the time; there are a few key concepts that are rather limited. One which jumps to mind is Christ actually stating that He is the "I am". John 8:58 from what I know is the only place it is explicit; there are other places clearly where it is either implied or meant with the original language; certainly the Pharisees knew this or they wouldn't have tried to kill Jesus 10 times or so before they finally succeeded. More often seen is the unique claims of Christ as being the only way to the Father (I am the way the truth and the life may perhaps means the same thing as my last reference). He also showed this with offering forgiveness of sins which is only something God can do. We see in this what is implied if CORRECTLY interpreted shows much of the primary themes; we could cite the Parables as a good example of this.

As an addendum; I used Matthew 24:48 to show how someone preaching about the Lord's soon coming is ridiculed now by fellowservants but also am looking at the theory of someone who misses the Rapture and has to suffer the consequences. Anyone who now is fervant about their love for the Lord (again an inexact analogy to the woman in this chapter longing for the man she would marry) may get a bad rap also. We need to realize that although the parable of the 10 virgins shows they all fell asleep those who were ready were able to rise up and go in the Rapture. Anyway I hope whatever I say in the rest of this study will help; and also wanted to say that I still plan to continue with the series on prayer with David but since it is an extensive project I want to gather some more thoughts in the interim.

Thanks for the inquiry.

Have a nice evening. R.P.

I meant life, not lie. oopsie

The watchmen that went about the city found me, they smote me, they wounded me; the keepers of the walls took away my veil from me

( Song of Solomon 5:7).

Perhaps for context we can look at these verses ( Matthew 25: 1-13). Specifically verse 5 says "

"While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept."

The main theme of Song of Solomon is about two lovers; the one woman had; in previous verses heard the knocking of the door. "I sleep, but my heart waketh: it is the voice of my beloved that knocketh, saying, Open to me, my sister, my love, my dove, my undefiled: for my head is filled with dew, and my locks with the drops of the night." ( Song of Solomon 5:2).

Here we see some similarities to Revelation 3:20 "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me."

We are to wait for the bridegroom; this story reminds us of the foolish virgin. Verse 6 in this chapter of Song of Solomon seems to also say the same thing; possibly an analogy of missing the Rapture.

There is some conjecture to beating fellow servants which is in Matthew 24:48 to the end which would seemingly represent servants warning of the Rapture who are rejected today. Luke 12:47 says

And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

This could also be a parallel verse to Song of Solomon 5:7.

This particular topic came up with some who espoused the idea that there was a "phased rapture". I tend to agree with the Rapture being a reward for a remnant of those sold out for the Lord now; but a later resurrection of the dead either at the midpoint or the end of the Tribulation. That is what I would call a tertiary issue; eschatology as to Pre Trib or not view secondary. The main thing is not to become lukewarm. As my latest posting shows I don't like to get too much into hidden meanings.

Agape.