There is a world of difference between being equal before the law and making something equal in law .
If you make equal in law what is not equal in fact in reality in very truth you have to allintents and purposes made a lie equal tothe truth in law .
If you justify in law what is not justifiable in principle or practice you have corrupted the law . If you deny the mountain of evidence that proves you are wrong but which by your law you seek to justify and say is right you have not only corrupted the law but by the denial of all that irrefutable perverted the cause of Justice .What has this all to do with the Law ?
Just because you use the same word Law does not always mean your speaking about the same thing .
When Hitler spoke of peace you can be sure his idea of peace was nothing likecN Chamberlains idea of peace . The tragedy was he seemed to want peace at any price ,such A peace is not peace at all and always has a bill at the end no one can afford .
The same with "works" . James is talking about works of faith . Paul in the main talks about works of the law so we must be clear about what is being talked about .
With due respect...I'm sorry but you're all over the place.
The only Law I'm referencing is Law of Moses...
The Law of Moses was God's covenant with Israel at Sinai, given after their deliverance from Egypt ( Ex. 19-24). It included moral commands (like the Ten Commandments), civil judgments, and ceremonial rules of sacrifices, priesthood, and festivals-Jewish tradition counts 613 commands. Israel agreed to obey, with blessings for faithfulness and curses for disobedience ( Deut. 28). Its purpose was to reveal sin ( Rom. 3:20), separate Israel from the nations ( Lev. 20:26), and point to Christ through shadows and sacrifices ( Heb. 10:1-10). Paul calls it a "schoolmaster" leading to Christ ( Gal. 3:24). Yet it could not give life, only condemn ( 2 Cor. 3:7-9). Christ fulfilled the Law of Moses ( Matt. 5:17) and by the cross removed its ordinances ( Col. 2:14). For the Body of Christ, we are "not under the law of Moses, but under grace" ( Rom. 6:14). The Law of Moses said "Do and live," but grace says "Believe and live." Though set aside now, God will yet write His law on Israel's heart under the New Covenant ( Jer. 31:33).
The Apostle Paul is the only New Testament writer who speaks directly of the "body of Christ" as the present-day church, a truth revealed uniquely to him. In the King James Bible, his thirteen epistles-Romans through Philemon-are the ONLY BOOKS that set forth this doctrine. While other writers describe Israel's covenants, kingdom promises, or prophetic hope, Paul alone explains the mystery of Jew and Gentile united in one spiritual body with Christ as the Head ( Ephesians 3:1-6; Colossians 1:24-27). These letters form the foundation for the believer's identity, walk, and hope in the dispensation of grace.
So, if you want to show me in one of these 13 books of Paul his discourse referring to the Law of Moses I'll be happy to read that.
Sorry but outside of these 13 books, then yes you are mixing law and or prophecy with Grace.
There are the laws of man and there are the laws of God .
Man can by his corrupt and perverted ideas of democracy may enable laws that contradict the laws of God but man's laws will not protect him from the consequences of breaking Gods laws . For the first commandment ( or law) of Humanism is the vain assertion that " Man has the right to life" Anabsurd assertion that denies the very simple truth that a " man's life is in his nostrils" but which stripped of all its hubris and empty promise basically says ' No matter what evil I do no evil will come'.
If we take the laws of physics they are greater than man for man did not invent them nor can he undo them and if he wished to benefit from them he must obey or conform to its principles .
Take for instance the law of aero dynamics by which all planes are able to fly . Be they bi planes of WW1 or a jumbo jet . Man can by his 'democracy' say we " don't do God" nor need His laws we will build a plane according to our laws and according to our liking.Man has the ,liberty to do so but in rejection of Gods laws he will not have the liberty to fly .
English Law is funded upon biblical law which states ' All men are free to do any good they find or mind to do ,but they are not at liberty to do evil and which is contrary to law . Thus all men are free from the law and good has no limitations. European law is founded upon Roman law which at root states 'All men are at liberty to do what the State allows but is forbidden to do what it does not . Thus under Roman law all are bound by the Law ,and good and evil is determined by the State which governs the what good can be done .
This nation of the UK has exchanged the truth for a lie our liberties for bondage and our true Christian heritage for a " mess of pottage".
There is a world of difference between being equal before the law and making something equal in law .
The Bible teaches that the believer's sin, guilt, and condemnation were fully judged at Calvary when Christ bore the penalty on our behalf. This is the heart of the gospel Paul preached:
"For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." ( 2 Cor. 5:21)
"Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification." ( Rom. 4:25)
"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus" ( Rom. 8:1)
In this sense, the believer's salvation has already been judged in Christ at the cross. God does not bring those in Christ into another judgment regarding eternal destiny. Their standing is secure because the full price has been paid.
Judgment Seat of Christ (Rewards, not Salvation)
The judgment seat of Christ is not about whether someone is saved or lost-it is about the believer's works, stewardship, and faithfulness after salvation:
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body" ( 2 Cor. 5:10)
"If any man's work abide he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." ( 1 Cor. 3:14-15)
This shows salvation is not on trial there-only works are tested for reward or loss.
judged once and forever in Christ.
This is about eternal salvation.
Judgment Seat of Christ: Concerns only the believer's service and labor. This is about reward, not salvation.
Great White Throne ( Rev. 20): Concerns the lost. This is about eternal condemnation.
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are SANCTIFIED, but ye are JUSTIFIED in the name of the Lord Jesus, and BY THE SPIRIT OF OUR GOD.
1 Corinthians 6:10-11.
For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that ( HE IS ABLE TO KEEP THAT WHICH I HAVE COMMITTED UNTO HIM AGAINST THAT DAY. 2 Timothy 1:12
CHRIST HATH REDEEMED US FROM THE CURSE OF THE LAW, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: Galatians 3:13.
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby YE ARE SEALED UNTO THE DAY OF REDEMPTION. Ephesians 4:30.
We have passed from judgement to life because of Calvary .
But there is still a judgement to come .
To the unrepentant sinner it is a judgement unto condemnation and damnation.
To a true born child of God it is at the judgement seat of Christ as to our works .
Of " what sort they are". Wood hay or stubble " that is of the flesh or of gold silver etc that which was spiritual not carnal .
For you cannot do in the flesh what God has ordained to be done in the Spirit .
Lot was as 'rich' as Abraham in the beginning so much so the land was not able to bare them without contentions. He chose according to what his eyes told him he walked by sight though counted righteous .
Abraham walked by faith .
In the end Lot lost all but the salvation of his soul " as through fire" .
" As in the days of Lot " said Jesus will be the coming of the Lord .
God has brought things about whereby as it was in the beginning as in the garden of Eden so it is now . That when Jesus said He "came not to condemn the world but that the world through Him might be saved " Also said I do not judge you but my Words will judge you in that day " and in another place " This is the condemnation the Light has come but men love darkness more than the light" . And in another place " they are condemned already for they have not believed.."
The sin in the garden of Eden was of " disobedience" not be.believing Gods Word but believing another message .
"By one mans disobedience all die.."
God has not changed He is the same yesterday today and forever . But now we " obey the gospel". And are we not drawn to obey Gods Word? Made flesh not out of fear but as it shouid be out of love .
The trouble with Adam was he loved Eve more than God and obeyed her rather than God .
Thus when an unrepentant sinner who has rejected Christ is cast out into outer darkness . For eternity When Adam sinned he was cast out of the garden and barred from the tree of life . But was shown mercy not only by given a covering but even more so of a Promise .that wouid restore mankind we are Mankind not a fish kind a dog kind or some sort of ape kind for every seed brings forth fruit after its own kind .
Cains offering was rejected because he did not follow the pattern God had laid down in the garden ( and of blessing) but sought by his own 'good' works to establish his own righteousness and thus denied Gods .
In every respect then anyone who enters eternity without Christ is undone without hope and will be eternally separated from God . That would be hell then .
For if you reject the mercy of God what is there left but judgement? And if you reject the love of God is there left only condemnation?
"There is no repentance in the grave" though some religionists say other wise . But it is better to believe God than it is to be.I've another
Amen Lbooth1955. You have encapsulated the whole doctrine of salvation, eternal security and rewards very well. As I read through your comment, my mind was turned to the great cost of our salvation. Not only was the full price paid for every sin that mankind has and could ever commit, but that the value of Christ's Sacrifice was beyond our human imagination or expectation.
When man who might be religiously inclined and introspective of his hopeless sinful condition, would very naturally do whatever he could to set his life aright and hope to please God, God saw that the sinner, though remorseful was incapable of paying that great price and was worthy only of death & eternal judgement. As Job rightly asked ( Job 14:4), "Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one."
God seeing that none were righteous, none were capable of pleasing Him by their efforts, and if His Love was to be fully demonstrated to the world, God Himself must step in to be the Sacrifice for no other payment could ever atone for our sins. Had Jesus, God's Word in Human form, failed at the many temptations pressing upon Him to fall as the first Adam fell, there remained no other way for the sinner to be redeemed to God, & upon believing, declared 'not guilty'; and we all would have our fate sealed, estranged from God forever.
God provided the only Sacrifice that could give full forgiveness, full redemption, and full acceptance - Himself. Blessings.
All men are 'religiously inclined' . The tragedy is man in of and by himself is not inclined towards God .
All men have faith for " God has given to every man a measure of faith to profit withal"
But not all men have their faith directed towards God .
Faith in God is not some mysterious 'other' faith to be strived for and grasped as if we had no faith but faith in God works in the same way and by the same principles that always has and people use every day of their lives.
Faith in God comes not just by hearing but understanding the Word of God .
Those who on the one hand speak of world faiths are not talking about faith at all but rather of vain and empty hopes that the scriptures says " will die with them".
And those who mock true Christian faith in fact undermine their own in whatever it is in .
But cannot undermine true Christian faith .
And while faith as small as a mustard seed can "move mountains" it is still expected to grow as our understanding or knowledge of Gods grows . "Little children " " Young men" to "Ye fathers you know Him who is from the beginning" Abrahams faith was not perfect in the beginning and a close look at his life will prove the case he too had to grow in grace and inthe knowledge of God .
The whole world is full of religion some of it called ' christian'. But of what seed is it? For the seed determines the fruit whatever 'religion' it is and by their fruits shall ye know them .
Tithing in the Old Testament was the giving of a tenth (10%) of one's increase, commanded under the Law of Moses for Israel. While Abraham ( Gen. 14:20) and Jacob ( Gen. 28:22) gave tithes before the Law, under Moses it became a structured system. Israel actually had three tithes: (1) The Levitical tithe-10% given to the Levites, since they had no land inheritance, and from it the Levites gave a tithe to the priests ( Num. 18:21-28). (2) The Festival tithe-a tenth of produce set aside for yearly religious feasts in Jerusalem, allowing Israel to rejoice before the Lord ( Deut. 14:22-27). (3) The Poor tithe-every third year another tenth was collected locally to support widows, orphans, foreigners, and the poor ( Deut. 14:28-29). Altogether, the system amounted to about 23% per year. Tithes supported the priesthood, the temple, Israel's worship, and social care. Malachi 3:8-10, often quoted, was a rebuke to Israel for robbing God by neglecting this Law. In the New Testament, however, the Body of Christ is not commanded to tithe. Instead, giving is voluntary, cheerful, and according to one's ability ( 2 Cor. 9:6-7). Thus, tithing belonged to Israel's covenant system, while under grace believers are called to give freely, not by legal obligation.
Is it not written that " Levi was in the loins of Abraham when he gave tithes to Malchezidech?
If Abraham is the father of the circumcision as well as the uncircumcision or the father of the faithful be they Jew or Gentile then if he gave tithes to Malchezidech we are also obliged to do so .
There are tithes and free will offerings . Both should be given with a joyful and grateful heart.Notwithstanding those " who make merchandise out of Gods people " Who rob both God and the true church of God. We cannot buy Gods blessing nor is He moved by flattery . " The people praise me with their lips but their hearts are far from me".
And while these charlatans are paid hirelings the work of God suffers .
Mixing law with grace confuses God's distinct dealings with Israel and the Body of Christ. The law, given at Sinai, was conditional and based on obedience ( Exod. 19:5-6). Grace is a free gift through Christ, "not of works, lest any man should boast" ( Eph. 2:8-9). Paul makes the contrast sharp: "if it be of works, then is it no more grace" ( Rom. 11:6). The two operate on opposite principles. The law says, "Do this and live" ( Lev. 18:5; Gal. 3:12), while grace says, "Believe and live" ( Rom. 4:5). If righteousness could come by law, then Christ's death was unnecessary ( Gal. 2:21).
The results also differ. The law reveals sin and brings condemnation ( Rom. 3:19-20), while grace brings justification, peace, and reconciliation ( Rom. 5:1; 2 Cor. 5:19). To mix them is to reintroduce guilt where liberty should reign. Law was given to Israel as part of their covenant program ( Deut. 4:8). Grace forms the Body of Christ, where there is neither Jew nor Gentile and where believers are "not under the law, but under grace" ( Rom. 6:14; Gal. 3:28). Combining them blurs Israel's earthly promises with the Body's heavenly calling.
Paul opposed such mixture when Peter withdrew from Gentile fellowship under pressure from law-keepers, saying he walked not "uprightly according to the truth of the gospel" ( Gal. 2:14). Paul insists believers are dead to the law by the body of Christ ( Rom. 7:4-6).
To return is to forfeit assurance, for the law demanded continual obedience, but Christ's one offering has perfected forever those who are sanctified ( Heb. 10:10-14). The law was holy and good, yet its purpose was to expose man's need. Grace supplies the answer in Christ. To mingle them destroys clarity and robs believers of the freedom and assurance God intends.
There is a lot here to reply to and while I don't like to break up a persons argument into isolated statements I will have to answer you in stages simply because of limited space and time so please bare with me .
Concerning the Law and Grace ,you misunderstand me. I do not mix them up .
When Jesus was baptised did He not say " that he might fulfil all righteousness"?
There are only two forms of righteousness in the Bible that I know of .
That which is of the law and that which is by faith .
If then a person is baptised what does he fulfil?
Indeed he is conforming to Christ and laying the foundation of " presenting his body a living sacrifice" but he is also fulfilling the law of righteousness that is by faith .
For though we are if BORN again no.onger under the law of sin and death we are under the higher law of Christ .
As such as now children of obedience rather than children of " disobedience" we get baptised by the law of love .
But in doing so we also UPHOLD the Law . Jesus fulfilled it by dying for sin . We uphold it by being "crucified with Him" and in baptism being " buried with Him" for by the same law of Christ we are also raised together with Him ."
I say again while we cannot keep the law we do uphold the law and in doing so justify God .
Abel by his offering confessed his sin the righteousness of God and his faith in the coming Promise .
So his offering found respect in Gods eyes . Cains did not .
By presenting our bodies to God it is no great thing it is but our " reasonable service" in the light of what God in Christ has done for us .
Fir it cost God everything to give us something for nothing. To all who receive such a gift it will cost us everything to keep it .
Excellent response Lbooth1955. The Law, as given to Israel, cannot be mixed in any way to the Gift of Grace through Christ given to all who can no longer be bound to the Law. And particularly to those of us who are Gentiles, were never given the Law in any way, shape or form; why then should we call upon it or seek to apply any of it to our Christian freedom in Christ?
It is my perception that the Church has not been true & vigilant to the Scriptures nor deeply concerned about this matter before her congregants by not addressing it correctly and fully. I ask myself, 'when was the last time I heard anything about this subject from the pulpit'? Rather, a superficial stance is adopted, i.e. 'if the Bible declares something then as Christians, we must adopt it'. How many children attending their Sunday School are taught the Decalogue, to recite it, and the need to obey it? I know I was and I accepted it without question.
Rather than correctly understanding the nature of the commandment, those to whom it was given, and the repercussions for disobedience, the Church has glibly avoided this core instruction that differentiates between the Law given to Israel and the Grace we have in Christ, but for 'safety sake', encourages all believers to embrace both together. As the Apostle Peter (referring to those who compelled the followers of Christ to be circumcised and to keep the Law of Moses), declared in Acts 15:10, "Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?" To our credit, we love to emphasize correctness in 'dividing the Scriptures'; yet in this very important matter, we gloss over it without realizing the seriousness of it and the wider implications pressing upon believers' understanding of the Word and the liberty and grace we now enjoy. We should never be led by the Law's strict demands & penalties, rather by the gracious Work of the Holy Spirit in each of our lives. GBU.
Thank you for your input. Years ago a pastor I respected deeply once told me, "If you can control the money, you can control the people." Looking back, I realize how wrong that was. Any pastor or preacher who demands that God's people pay tithes seems more focused on money and control than truth. Twisting Scripture, adding to it, or removing from it to meet one's own needs does not make it so. Scripture shows we are under grace, not law, and giving should be from the heart, not a requirement enforced from the pulpit. To make tithing mandatory feels more like a money grab than genuine ministry. I appreciate your thoughts and the chance to share openly.
Exodus 19:3-6, "And Moses went up unto God, and the LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel; Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself. Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel."
Romans 3:19,20, "Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin."
2 Corinthians 3:7-9, "But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory."
Galatians 3:10-13, "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them." Onto Page 2.
Ephesians 2:14,15, "For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace."
Hebrews 8:6,7, "But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second."
Hebrews 8:13, "In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."
2 Corinthians 3:6, "Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life."
Galatians 2:16,21, "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."
"I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain." Blessings.
Thanks bro. S. Spencer. Your quote of Matthew 9:17 is most appropriate.
Jesus was emphasizing that His Coming should have been a time of expectancy and rejoicing, not with sorrow & accompanying fasting (vv 14,15). So too with the Law given to Israel (the whole Law, not just the Decalogue), which kept them bound and subservient to it, where the minutest departure from it brought judgement, sometimes death. Had Jesus not come to them - had God planned no release from that bondage, their lives would remain miserable, hopeless and damnable. But Jesus did come for them, coming in fulfilment of all the prophecies that went before Him, where the old sacrifices and offerings all pointed to Him, and being the complete embodiment of all of God's Laws perfectly obeyed & cast aside forever; now bringing real lasting 'Peace (with God) through the blood of His Cross' ( Colossians 1:20).
Unfortunately, in our human nature, we can't let go of those old perished wineskins, hoping that some of that remaining aged wine will give us further sustenance and the LORD would be pleased that we have partaken of every last drop of His Word. But the Word of God, the Living Word has come to us to nourish us with the Word that saves, nourishes and satisfies completely - not to be in bondage to a Law so designed, but to experience freedom to obey all His Laws as given by His Spirit, in the Power of His Spirit. Israel never experienced that, so they consistently failed God, as all who try to obey Him in their own strength, would. If we truly believe that we have been given forgiveness, life and peace under the New Covenant, what is there in the Old Covenant that could offer us anything at all? Maybe for some, there is more satisfaction in syncretising the two, not understanding or experiencing the full worth of the New Covenant alone. GBU.
God does look deep within our being concerning our actions and sees the corruption of our sinful nature so that even when we think we are obeying God, there is still something in us that resists Him. This is why we need Christ's righteousness, not ours (which is a lack of completely righteous acts) as the basis of our justification. The law, though good and holy, teaches us that we cannot justify ourselves. It is a work of God imputing the righteous life of Jesus to us. This is the only way that the law can exonerate anyone, when it is Jesus' perfect and complete obedience to every aspect of the law given to us for our justification that makes us righteous before God.
The law does convict of us our own sin and its corruption of our natural self. This is true for believers and unbelievers alike.
Yet, as believers, the law of the Spirit has freed us from the condemnation of the law and His power and grace does help us to become more and more like Jesus in our obedience. Our obedience never justifies us, yet looking at the law as teaching us about the moral goodness of God and how He wants us to avoid what is against His law, believers use the law as a guide to what Jesus meant when He gave the commands to love God and one another with it's higher demands as to the spirit of the law than the letter. The law also teaches us how it typifies the work of Jesus. We can read the law of Moses and grow in understanding on how Jesus is the antitype of the commandments of God.
And lastly, we can look at the moral law of God and rejoice that when we are resurrected, we, too, will act without sin in the life to come. May each of us grow to truly love righteousness and advance in our understanding of God's holiness, longing to put on the incorruptible when Jesus returns.
But in this life, we will never be exonerated in expecting our attempts to live out Jesus' commands, which sum up all of the 10 commandments, which are always corrupted by sin.
I agree Gerald, "as Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD" ( Genesis 6:8), so we find that the same LORD has always been a gracious God to all. The Nature of God has never changed: God has always shown and given Grace to those whose hearts are obedient and turned towards Him, and now so much more in Christ that all may hear of and accept His great Salvation.
But none, not a one, has ever been accepted or saved on the basis of their obedience to the Law, for "by the law is the knowledge of sin" ( Romans 3:20). The Law was given only to Israel, as His chosen people, that they may know who this God is & His Holy requirements for them, as He rescued them from their bondage in Egypt. Not only the Law, but of circumcision, were the impositions placed upon them which truly separated His people from all others.
The Law couldn't save them then or now, and yes, it ought to have convicted them of their sin and inability to obey and please God under it. But they rejected God's free offer of salvation in Christ Jesus, as most do now, preferring to bask under the Law and their election in hope of God's Approval and Acceptance. What a sad and dreadful day when they see the One "whom they have pierced" coming in the clouds ( Zechariah 12:10), realizing that all this while they held onto a false belief and hope. Blessings.
The writer of Hebrews shows that Melchizedek's priesthood is greater than Levi's. Abraham, Israel's patriarch, acknowledged Melchizedek's superiority by giving him tithes ( Gen. 14:18-20). Since Levi descended from Abraham, he is considered still "in the loins" of Abraham when this occurred. Therefore, if Abraham honored Melchizedek, then Levi-and the entire Levitical system-is inferior to the Melchizedekian order ( Heb. 7:9-10, 17).
Hebrews was written with Israel in view, not the Body of Christ. The Levitical system was given to Israel alone under the Law. The comparison in Hebrews urges Jews to see that Christ's priesthood after Melchizedek surpasses Levi's. By contrast, the Body of Christ has no temple priesthood, no tithes, and no Mosaic obligations. We live under grace, with Christ as our heavenly Head and Intercessor ( Eph. 1:22-23; Eph. 2:18).
The "in the loins" expression illustrates Israel's corporate identity. God often counts descendants as participating in the acts of their forefathers (cf. Rom. 5:12-19 with Adam). This covenantal reasoning belongs to Israel's heritage. Paul, however, never uses this logic for the Church. Instead, he teaches believers are placed "in Christ" ( 2 Cor. 5:17; Eph. 1:3-13)-a spiritual union distinct from Abrahamic lineage.
Thus Hebrews 7 shows Israel's Levitical priesthood is subordinate to Christ's Melchizedekian priesthood. The Body of Christ does not trace its standing through Abraham or Levi, but rests in Christ's finished work revealed through Paul's gospel. This was part of Israel's transition from the Mosaic order toward Mystery promises, while our identity is already secured in heavenly places.
A side note: James writes, "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all" ( Jas. 2:10). He addressed "the twelve tribesscattered abroad" ( Jas. 1:1). Therefore, if someone binds himself to the tithe law, he becomes debtor to the whole law.
While it can be argued that the letter to the Hebrews was primarily a letter to the Hebrews or Jews and if we witness to any it would not be unprofitable to take Paul's lead in doing so .
But while primarily so it is not exclusively so for " all scripture is good for "
And a study and long meditation on the tabernacle would be no loss of time either .
In our approach to God and in prayer .
If Levi was in the loins if Abraham being a Jew then on the same principle I was in the loins of Adam being a none Jew.
And as Paul adequately ( where I may not) shows that Malchezidech speaks of Christ who has not only become our high priest but has replaced that which was temporary and of the flesh in a tabernacle made with hands . But made after the patterning heaven . But Paul shows in Romans and Hebrews and elsewhere that as both Hew and gentile are both " sold unto sin" and that all have sinned then these under the law are judged accirding to the law and those without are judged without the law . But still proves with or without all are guilty before God .
And then shows that righteousness which is not of the law but by faith pointing to Abraham . Who while uncircumcised was counted righteous because he believed God .
God treats both Jew and Gentile the same but shows how righteous God is and that man has no excuse for wether by the law or without all have sinned . (In truth man cannot keep his own law .)
The answer from God is the same for both . Faith in Jesus Christ .
In truth while at the moment some Jews are saved the most still have a veil over their face blinding them from the truth .
But there is coming a day when the Lord will save them in a day ( even as old in Egypt) and "They shall see Him who thry had priced " and does not Paul in Ephesians(?) speak of make if "Twain one new man in Christ" ?
Spiritually then Does not God deal with all men the same? And will judge all by Christ?
Amen Lbooth1955. Thanks for that added information on the distribution of Tithes. As well, your original question could be extended to: 'If tithing is not required by those under the New Covenant, what of those Laws, including the Decalogue that were given solely to Israel to introduce them to God's Holy requirements, as they found freedom from Egyptian bondage & to be settled in the Promised Land?'
Many believers maintain that we need to obey the Decalogue, in spite of the condemnation that it brings when we fail to "keep the whole law" ( James 2:10). I sense that these folk are considering this subject at the superficial level, i.e. God has spoken, and "the Law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good" ( Romans 7:12), so it remains current & very much applicable for us today to follow. And this would, or should, include keeping the Sabbath, which strangely very few do. And let's not include circumcision.
Whereas, like the Tithes and the hundreds of commandments, ceremonial laws, & the sacrificial system given to Israel to follow and perform meticulously, none of it bears upon us in Christ in any way, to us who have been given new life, under a new abiding Covenant, and God's eternal and comprehensive Laws directed to each of our hearts by His Holy Spirit. Israel of old determined their actions according to the Law that they were given, which then affected their conscience and sacrifice was made each year. Our actions & responses are according to the dictates of the Holy Spirit, which go far far beyond anything that the Old Law could ever do: it only brought condemnation and then the need for sacrifices to stay God's Hand of Judgement. Animal sacrifices were temporary and weak at best; but the Sacrifice of the Lamb of God is eternal and completely forgives and justifies ( Acts 13:38,39; Romans 3:23-28). Just thought to give a little addendum to your original question. Blessings.
Tithing is very good, if it helps towards building up the real church, the body of Christ. Tith is only one- tenth; But what about the remaining 9? ( Luke 17:17).
We are created in God's image and we bear Christ's name and seal on us ( Matthew 22:19-21). We are requested to offer ourselves (fully, not one- tenth) as a living sacrifice to God ( Romans 12:1). Then the people in our contacts may get the message of the Good News and turn to God. To live a Christian life (means complete surrender to His will) is the way to win our dear ones for Christ ( 1 Peter 3:1-2) The Cross may be heavy, but the end is glorious beyond imagination ( Psalms 126:5)
Hello again Lbooth1955. You could probably guess my response to your question, or even seen my response to others in the past about this question. No, I don't believe in Tithing as a requirement or even a command, for those who are in Christ. The oft quoted Scripture that seems to help us concerning our giving ( 2 Corinthians 9:7,8: "Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work") is very applicable.
And I believe that this instruction is about a heart that has an attitude of generosity to others and complete faith in God, not just to the local Fellowship, but to those in need around them & supporting those in the ministry of the Gospel. We are to give according to our faith, our conscience, as God has blessed us. The widow's last two mites had greater value than all the 'tithes' & general offerings cast in by others. The LORD could multiply those valueless mites in an instant and that widow would have been the one to receive the greater blessing for her devotion to the LORD and sacrificial giving in faith, faith in the God Who was her "Yahweh-Yireh". That said, for the new believer uninstructed in these things and still desiring a dollar amount to give as his regular offering and exercise of faith, I would suggest that a tenth of one's earnings was a good place to begin, yet to always be open to the LORD and to the needs around him. When we have sensitive compassionate hearts, our yearning to reach out and help, must go beyond any monetary amount but the giving of ourselves to the LORD for His use in whatever way He enables and directs us. If we then disobey Him, the greater suffering will be ours. GBU.
Any thoughts on Tithing?
Peace and Grace...
There is a world of difference between being equal before the law and making something equal in law .
If you make equal in law what is not equal in fact in reality in very truth you have to allintents and purposes made a lie equal tothe truth in law .
If you justify in law what is not justifiable in principle or practice you have corrupted the law . If you deny the mountain of evidence that proves you are wrong but which by your law you seek to justify and say is right you have not only corrupted the law but by the denial of all that irrefutable perverted the cause of Justice .What has this all to do with the Law ?
Just because you use the same word Law does not always mean your speaking about the same thing .
When Hitler spoke of peace you can be sure his idea of peace was nothing likecN Chamberlains idea of peace . The tragedy was he seemed to want peace at any price ,such A peace is not peace at all and always has a bill at the end no one can afford .
The same with "works" . James is talking about works of faith . Paul in the main talks about works of the law so we must be clear about what is being talked about .
So likewise the Law .
With due respect...I'm sorry but you're all over the place.
The only Law I'm referencing is Law of Moses...
The Law of Moses was God's covenant with Israel at Sinai, given after their deliverance from Egypt ( Ex. 19-24). It included moral commands (like the Ten Commandments), civil judgments, and ceremonial rules of sacrifices, priesthood, and festivals-Jewish tradition counts 613 commands. Israel agreed to obey, with blessings for faithfulness and curses for disobedience ( Deut. 28). Its purpose was to reveal sin ( Rom. 3:20), separate Israel from the nations ( Lev. 20:26), and point to Christ through shadows and sacrifices ( Heb. 10:1-10). Paul calls it a "schoolmaster" leading to Christ ( Gal. 3:24). Yet it could not give life, only condemn ( 2 Cor. 3:7-9). Christ fulfilled the Law of Moses ( Matt. 5:17) and by the cross removed its ordinances ( Col. 2:14). For the Body of Christ, we are "not under the law of Moses, but under grace" ( Rom. 6:14). The Law of Moses said "Do and live," but grace says "Believe and live." Though set aside now, God will yet write His law on Israel's heart under the New Covenant ( Jer. 31:33).
The Apostle Paul is the only New Testament writer who speaks directly of the "body of Christ" as the present-day church, a truth revealed uniquely to him. In the King James Bible, his thirteen epistles-Romans through Philemon-are the ONLY BOOKS that set forth this doctrine. While other writers describe Israel's covenants, kingdom promises, or prophetic hope, Paul alone explains the mystery of Jew and Gentile united in one spiritual body with Christ as the Head ( Ephesians 3:1-6; Colossians 1:24-27). These letters form the foundation for the believer's identity, walk, and hope in the dispensation of grace.
So, if you want to show me in one of these 13 books of Paul his discourse referring to the Law of Moses I'll be happy to read that.
Sorry but outside of these 13 books, then yes you are mixing law and or prophecy with Grace.
Grace and Peace.
There are the laws of man and there are the laws of God .
Man can by his corrupt and perverted ideas of democracy may enable laws that contradict the laws of God but man's laws will not protect him from the consequences of breaking Gods laws . For the first commandment ( or law) of Humanism is the vain assertion that " Man has the right to life" Anabsurd assertion that denies the very simple truth that a " man's life is in his nostrils" but which stripped of all its hubris and empty promise basically says ' No matter what evil I do no evil will come'.
If we take the laws of physics they are greater than man for man did not invent them nor can he undo them and if he wished to benefit from them he must obey or conform to its principles .
Take for instance the law of aero dynamics by which all planes are able to fly . Be they bi planes of WW1 or a jumbo jet . Man can by his 'democracy' say we " don't do God" nor need His laws we will build a plane according to our laws and according to our liking.Man has the ,liberty to do so but in rejection of Gods laws he will not have the liberty to fly .
English Law is funded upon biblical law which states ' All men are free to do any good they find or mind to do ,but they are not at liberty to do evil and which is contrary to law . Thus all men are free from the law and good has no limitations. European law is founded upon Roman law which at root states 'All men are at liberty to do what the State allows but is forbidden to do what it does not . Thus under Roman law all are bound by the Law ,and good and evil is determined by the State which governs the what good can be done .
This nation of the UK has exchanged the truth for a lie our liberties for bondage and our true Christian heritage for a " mess of pottage".
There is a world of difference between being equal before the law and making something equal in law .
To be continued:
Any thoughts?
Judged in Christ at the Cross (Salvation Settled)
The Bible teaches that the believer's sin, guilt, and condemnation were fully judged at Calvary when Christ bore the penalty on our behalf. This is the heart of the gospel Paul preached:
"For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." ( 2 Cor. 5:21)
"Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification." ( Rom. 4:25)
"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus" ( Rom. 8:1)
In this sense, the believer's salvation has already been judged in Christ at the cross. God does not bring those in Christ into another judgment regarding eternal destiny. Their standing is secure because the full price has been paid.
Judgment Seat of Christ (Rewards, not Salvation)
The judgment seat of Christ is not about whether someone is saved or lost-it is about the believer's works, stewardship, and faithfulness after salvation:
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body" ( 2 Cor. 5:10)
"If any man's work abide he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." ( 1 Cor. 3:14-15)
This shows salvation is not on trial there-only works are tested for reward or loss.
judged once and forever in Christ.
This is about eternal salvation.
Judgment Seat of Christ: Concerns only the believer's service and labor. This is about reward, not salvation.
Great White Throne ( Rev. 20): Concerns the lost. This is about eternal condemnation.
Grace and Peace.
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are SANCTIFIED, but ye are JUSTIFIED in the name of the Lord Jesus, and BY THE SPIRIT OF OUR GOD.
1 Corinthians 6:10-11.
For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that ( HE IS ABLE TO KEEP THAT WHICH I HAVE COMMITTED UNTO HIM AGAINST THAT DAY. 2 Timothy 1:12
CHRIST HATH REDEEMED US FROM THE CURSE OF THE LAW, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: Galatians 3:13.
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby YE ARE SEALED UNTO THE DAY OF REDEMPTION. Ephesians 4:30.
Blessings.
christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law
grace and peace
But there is still a judgement to come .
To the unrepentant sinner it is a judgement unto condemnation and damnation.
To a true born child of God it is at the judgement seat of Christ as to our works .
Of " what sort they are". Wood hay or stubble " that is of the flesh or of gold silver etc that which was spiritual not carnal .
For you cannot do in the flesh what God has ordained to be done in the Spirit .
Lot was as 'rich' as Abraham in the beginning so much so the land was not able to bare them without contentions. He chose according to what his eyes told him he walked by sight though counted righteous .
Abraham walked by faith .
In the end Lot lost all but the salvation of his soul " as through fire" .
" As in the days of Lot " said Jesus will be the coming of the Lord .
Regarding you comment here...
"To the unrepentant sinner it is a judgement unto condemnation and damnation."
Can you expound on this please?
God has brought things about whereby as it was in the beginning as in the garden of Eden so it is now . That when Jesus said He "came not to condemn the world but that the world through Him might be saved " Also said I do not judge you but my Words will judge you in that day " and in another place " This is the condemnation the Light has come but men love darkness more than the light" . And in another place " they are condemned already for they have not believed.."
The sin in the garden of Eden was of " disobedience" not be.believing Gods Word but believing another message .
"By one mans disobedience all die.."
God has not changed He is the same yesterday today and forever . But now we " obey the gospel". And are we not drawn to obey Gods Word? Made flesh not out of fear but as it shouid be out of love .
The trouble with Adam was he loved Eve more than God and obeyed her rather than God .
Thus when an unrepentant sinner who has rejected Christ is cast out into outer darkness . For eternity When Adam sinned he was cast out of the garden and barred from the tree of life . But was shown mercy not only by given a covering but even more so of a Promise .that wouid restore mankind we are Mankind not a fish kind a dog kind or some sort of ape kind for every seed brings forth fruit after its own kind .
Cains offering was rejected because he did not follow the pattern God had laid down in the garden ( and of blessing) but sought by his own 'good' works to establish his own righteousness and thus denied Gods .
In every respect then anyone who enters eternity without Christ is undone without hope and will be eternally separated from God . That would be hell then .
For if you reject the mercy of God what is there left but judgement? And if you reject the love of God is there left only condemnation?
"There is no repentance in the grave" though some religionists say other wise . But it is better to believe God than it is to be.I've another
When man who might be religiously inclined and introspective of his hopeless sinful condition, would very naturally do whatever he could to set his life aright and hope to please God, God saw that the sinner, though remorseful was incapable of paying that great price and was worthy only of death & eternal judgement. As Job rightly asked ( Job 14:4), "Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one."
God seeing that none were righteous, none were capable of pleasing Him by their efforts, and if His Love was to be fully demonstrated to the world, God Himself must step in to be the Sacrifice for no other payment could ever atone for our sins. Had Jesus, God's Word in Human form, failed at the many temptations pressing upon Him to fall as the first Adam fell, there remained no other way for the sinner to be redeemed to God, & upon believing, declared 'not guilty'; and we all would have our fate sealed, estranged from God forever.
God provided the only Sacrifice that could give full forgiveness, full redemption, and full acceptance - Himself. Blessings.
All men have faith for " God has given to every man a measure of faith to profit withal"
But not all men have their faith directed towards God .
Faith in God is not some mysterious 'other' faith to be strived for and grasped as if we had no faith but faith in God works in the same way and by the same principles that always has and people use every day of their lives.
Faith in God comes not just by hearing but understanding the Word of God .
Those who on the one hand speak of world faiths are not talking about faith at all but rather of vain and empty hopes that the scriptures says " will die with them".
And those who mock true Christian faith in fact undermine their own in whatever it is in .
But cannot undermine true Christian faith .
And while faith as small as a mustard seed can "move mountains" it is still expected to grow as our understanding or knowledge of Gods grows . "Little children " " Young men" to "Ye fathers you know Him who is from the beginning" Abrahams faith was not perfect in the beginning and a close look at his life will prove the case he too had to grow in grace and inthe knowledge of God .
The whole world is full of religion some of it called ' christian'. But of what seed is it? For the seed determines the fruit whatever 'religion' it is and by their fruits shall ye know them .
I agree!
Tithing in the Old Testament was the giving of a tenth (10%) of one's increase, commanded under the Law of Moses for Israel. While Abraham ( Gen. 14:20) and Jacob ( Gen. 28:22) gave tithes before the Law, under Moses it became a structured system. Israel actually had three tithes: (1) The Levitical tithe-10% given to the Levites, since they had no land inheritance, and from it the Levites gave a tithe to the priests ( Num. 18:21-28). (2) The Festival tithe-a tenth of produce set aside for yearly religious feasts in Jerusalem, allowing Israel to rejoice before the Lord ( Deut. 14:22-27). (3) The Poor tithe-every third year another tenth was collected locally to support widows, orphans, foreigners, and the poor ( Deut. 14:28-29). Altogether, the system amounted to about 23% per year. Tithes supported the priesthood, the temple, Israel's worship, and social care. Malachi 3:8-10, often quoted, was a rebuke to Israel for robbing God by neglecting this Law. In the New Testament, however, the Body of Christ is not commanded to tithe. Instead, giving is voluntary, cheerful, and according to one's ability ( 2 Cor. 9:6-7). Thus, tithing belonged to Israel's covenant system, while under grace believers are called to give freely, not by legal obligation.
Grace and Peace.
If Abraham is the father of the circumcision as well as the uncircumcision or the father of the faithful be they Jew or Gentile then if he gave tithes to Malchezidech we are also obliged to do so .
There are tithes and free will offerings . Both should be given with a joyful and grateful heart.Notwithstanding those " who make merchandise out of Gods people " Who rob both God and the true church of God. We cannot buy Gods blessing nor is He moved by flattery . " The people praise me with their lips but their hearts are far from me".
And while these charlatans are paid hirelings the work of God suffers .
Mixing law with grace confuses God's distinct dealings with Israel and the Body of Christ. The law, given at Sinai, was conditional and based on obedience ( Exod. 19:5-6). Grace is a free gift through Christ, "not of works, lest any man should boast" ( Eph. 2:8-9). Paul makes the contrast sharp: "if it be of works, then is it no more grace" ( Rom. 11:6). The two operate on opposite principles. The law says, "Do this and live" ( Lev. 18:5; Gal. 3:12), while grace says, "Believe and live" ( Rom. 4:5). If righteousness could come by law, then Christ's death was unnecessary ( Gal. 2:21).
The results also differ. The law reveals sin and brings condemnation ( Rom. 3:19-20), while grace brings justification, peace, and reconciliation ( Rom. 5:1; 2 Cor. 5:19). To mix them is to reintroduce guilt where liberty should reign. Law was given to Israel as part of their covenant program ( Deut. 4:8). Grace forms the Body of Christ, where there is neither Jew nor Gentile and where believers are "not under the law, but under grace" ( Rom. 6:14; Gal. 3:28). Combining them blurs Israel's earthly promises with the Body's heavenly calling.
Paul opposed such mixture when Peter withdrew from Gentile fellowship under pressure from law-keepers, saying he walked not "uprightly according to the truth of the gospel" ( Gal. 2:14). Paul insists believers are dead to the law by the body of Christ ( Rom. 7:4-6).
To return is to forfeit assurance, for the law demanded continual obedience, but Christ's one offering has perfected forever those who are sanctified ( Heb. 10:10-14). The law was holy and good, yet its purpose was to expose man's need. Grace supplies the answer in Christ. To mingle them destroys clarity and robs believers of the freedom and assurance God intends.
Grace and Peace
Concerning the Law and Grace ,you misunderstand me. I do not mix them up .
When Jesus was baptised did He not say " that he might fulfil all righteousness"?
There are only two forms of righteousness in the Bible that I know of .
That which is of the law and that which is by faith .
If then a person is baptised what does he fulfil?
Indeed he is conforming to Christ and laying the foundation of " presenting his body a living sacrifice" but he is also fulfilling the law of righteousness that is by faith .
For though we are if BORN again no.onger under the law of sin and death we are under the higher law of Christ .
As such as now children of obedience rather than children of " disobedience" we get baptised by the law of love .
But in doing so we also UPHOLD the Law . Jesus fulfilled it by dying for sin . We uphold it by being "crucified with Him" and in baptism being " buried with Him" for by the same law of Christ we are also raised together with Him ."
I say again while we cannot keep the law we do uphold the law and in doing so justify God .
Abel by his offering confessed his sin the righteousness of God and his faith in the coming Promise .
So his offering found respect in Gods eyes . Cains did not .
By presenting our bodies to God it is no great thing it is but our " reasonable service" in the light of what God in Christ has done for us .
Fir it cost God everything to give us something for nothing. To all who receive such a gift it will cost us everything to keep it .
GB
It is my perception that the Church has not been true & vigilant to the Scriptures nor deeply concerned about this matter before her congregants by not addressing it correctly and fully. I ask myself, 'when was the last time I heard anything about this subject from the pulpit'? Rather, a superficial stance is adopted, i.e. 'if the Bible declares something then as Christians, we must adopt it'. How many children attending their Sunday School are taught the Decalogue, to recite it, and the need to obey it? I know I was and I accepted it without question.
Rather than correctly understanding the nature of the commandment, those to whom it was given, and the repercussions for disobedience, the Church has glibly avoided this core instruction that differentiates between the Law given to Israel and the Grace we have in Christ, but for 'safety sake', encourages all believers to embrace both together. As the Apostle Peter (referring to those who compelled the followers of Christ to be circumcised and to keep the Law of Moses), declared in Acts 15:10, "Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?" To our credit, we love to emphasize correctness in 'dividing the Scriptures'; yet in this very important matter, we gloss over it without realizing the seriousness of it and the wider implications pressing upon believers' understanding of the Word and the liberty and grace we now enjoy. We should never be led by the Law's strict demands & penalties, rather by the gracious Work of the Holy Spirit in each of our lives. GBU.
Thank you for your input. Years ago a pastor I respected deeply once told me, "If you can control the money, you can control the people." Looking back, I realize how wrong that was. Any pastor or preacher who demands that God's people pay tithes seems more focused on money and control than truth. Twisting Scripture, adding to it, or removing from it to meet one's own needs does not make it so. Scripture shows we are under grace, not law, and giving should be from the heart, not a requirement enforced from the pulpit. To make tithing mandatory feels more like a money grab than genuine ministry. I appreciate your thoughts and the chance to share openly.
Grace and Peace
[Comment Removed]
Exodus 19:3-6, "And Moses went up unto God, and the LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel; Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself. Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel."
Romans 3:19,20, "Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin."
2 Corinthians 3:7-9, "But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory."
Galatians 3:10-13, "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them." Onto Page 2.
Ephesians 2:14,15, "For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace."
Hebrews 8:6,7, "But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second."
Hebrews 8:13, "In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."
2 Corinthians 3:6, "Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life."
Galatians 2:16,21, "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."
"I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain." Blessings.
The law "given to Israel" exposed the efficiency of man at his best to the world.
Israel was and still is on display even while the Lord was in their midst in much of the OT.
This ministry brought death so that ALL would enter God's kingdom the same way. FAITH!
You cannot put new wine into old wine skins.
You can't try to take a person who still have an unborn heart and make them follow God.
Even if the law was given to bring life, the exterior act isn't what the Lord looks at.
I believe the Lord looks at HIS work being done in a believers heart.
It's the inside the cup that counts.
Blessings.
Jesus was emphasizing that His Coming should have been a time of expectancy and rejoicing, not with sorrow & accompanying fasting (vv 14,15). So too with the Law given to Israel (the whole Law, not just the Decalogue), which kept them bound and subservient to it, where the minutest departure from it brought judgement, sometimes death. Had Jesus not come to them - had God planned no release from that bondage, their lives would remain miserable, hopeless and damnable. But Jesus did come for them, coming in fulfilment of all the prophecies that went before Him, where the old sacrifices and offerings all pointed to Him, and being the complete embodiment of all of God's Laws perfectly obeyed & cast aside forever; now bringing real lasting 'Peace (with God) through the blood of His Cross' ( Colossians 1:20).
Unfortunately, in our human nature, we can't let go of those old perished wineskins, hoping that some of that remaining aged wine will give us further sustenance and the LORD would be pleased that we have partaken of every last drop of His Word. But the Word of God, the Living Word has come to us to nourish us with the Word that saves, nourishes and satisfies completely - not to be in bondage to a Law so designed, but to experience freedom to obey all His Laws as given by His Spirit, in the Power of His Spirit. Israel never experienced that, so they consistently failed God, as all who try to obey Him in their own strength, would. If we truly believe that we have been given forgiveness, life and peace under the New Covenant, what is there in the Old Covenant that could offer us anything at all? Maybe for some, there is more satisfaction in syncretising the two, not understanding or experiencing the full worth of the New Covenant alone. GBU.
God does look deep within our being concerning our actions and sees the corruption of our sinful nature so that even when we think we are obeying God, there is still something in us that resists Him. This is why we need Christ's righteousness, not ours (which is a lack of completely righteous acts) as the basis of our justification. The law, though good and holy, teaches us that we cannot justify ourselves. It is a work of God imputing the righteous life of Jesus to us. This is the only way that the law can exonerate anyone, when it is Jesus' perfect and complete obedience to every aspect of the law given to us for our justification that makes us righteous before God.
The law does convict of us our own sin and its corruption of our natural self. This is true for believers and unbelievers alike.
Yet, as believers, the law of the Spirit has freed us from the condemnation of the law and His power and grace does help us to become more and more like Jesus in our obedience. Our obedience never justifies us, yet looking at the law as teaching us about the moral goodness of God and how He wants us to avoid what is against His law, believers use the law as a guide to what Jesus meant when He gave the commands to love God and one another with it's higher demands as to the spirit of the law than the letter. The law also teaches us how it typifies the work of Jesus. We can read the law of Moses and grow in understanding on how Jesus is the antitype of the commandments of God.
And lastly, we can look at the moral law of God and rejoice that when we are resurrected, we, too, will act without sin in the life to come. May each of us grow to truly love righteousness and advance in our understanding of God's holiness, longing to put on the incorruptible when Jesus returns.
But in this life, we will never be exonerated in expecting our attempts to live out Jesus' commands, which sum up all of the 10 commandments, which are always corrupted by sin.
Very well spoken!
The growth and fruit in a believers life could never be produced by the "covenant" of the law.
Blessings!
[Comment Removed]
Is it not written that "Noah found grace in Gods sight "?
It has always been by grace that anyone was and is saved .
The Law as Paul so clearly teaches was there to convict of sin . Not to justify the righteous .( Romans).
But none, not a one, has ever been accepted or saved on the basis of their obedience to the Law, for "by the law is the knowledge of sin" ( Romans 3:20). The Law was given only to Israel, as His chosen people, that they may know who this God is & His Holy requirements for them, as He rescued them from their bondage in Egypt. Not only the Law, but of circumcision, were the impositions placed upon them which truly separated His people from all others.
The Law couldn't save them then or now, and yes, it ought to have convicted them of their sin and inability to obey and please God under it. But they rejected God's free offer of salvation in Christ Jesus, as most do now, preferring to bask under the Law and their election in hope of God's Approval and Acceptance. What a sad and dreadful day when they see the One "whom they have pierced" coming in the clouds ( Zechariah 12:10), realizing that all this while they held onto a false belief and hope. Blessings.
Hello Gerald,
The writer of Hebrews shows that Melchizedek's priesthood is greater than Levi's. Abraham, Israel's patriarch, acknowledged Melchizedek's superiority by giving him tithes ( Gen. 14:18-20). Since Levi descended from Abraham, he is considered still "in the loins" of Abraham when this occurred. Therefore, if Abraham honored Melchizedek, then Levi-and the entire Levitical system-is inferior to the Melchizedekian order ( Heb. 7:9-10, 17).
Hebrews was written with Israel in view, not the Body of Christ. The Levitical system was given to Israel alone under the Law. The comparison in Hebrews urges Jews to see that Christ's priesthood after Melchizedek surpasses Levi's. By contrast, the Body of Christ has no temple priesthood, no tithes, and no Mosaic obligations. We live under grace, with Christ as our heavenly Head and Intercessor ( Eph. 1:22-23; Eph. 2:18).
The "in the loins" expression illustrates Israel's corporate identity. God often counts descendants as participating in the acts of their forefathers (cf. Rom. 5:12-19 with Adam). This covenantal reasoning belongs to Israel's heritage. Paul, however, never uses this logic for the Church. Instead, he teaches believers are placed "in Christ" ( 2 Cor. 5:17; Eph. 1:3-13)-a spiritual union distinct from Abrahamic lineage.
Thus Hebrews 7 shows Israel's Levitical priesthood is subordinate to Christ's Melchizedekian priesthood. The Body of Christ does not trace its standing through Abraham or Levi, but rests in Christ's finished work revealed through Paul's gospel. This was part of Israel's transition from the Mosaic order toward Mystery promises, while our identity is already secured in heavenly places.
A side note: James writes, "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all" ( Jas. 2:10). He addressed "the twelve tribesscattered abroad" ( Jas. 1:1). Therefore, if someone binds himself to the tithe law, he becomes debtor to the whole law.
But while primarily so it is not exclusively so for " all scripture is good for "
And a study and long meditation on the tabernacle would be no loss of time either .
In our approach to God and in prayer .
If Levi was in the loins if Abraham being a Jew then on the same principle I was in the loins of Adam being a none Jew.
And as Paul adequately ( where I may not) shows that Malchezidech speaks of Christ who has not only become our high priest but has replaced that which was temporary and of the flesh in a tabernacle made with hands . But made after the patterning heaven . But Paul shows in Romans and Hebrews and elsewhere that as both Hew and gentile are both " sold unto sin" and that all have sinned then these under the law are judged accirding to the law and those without are judged without the law . But still proves with or without all are guilty before God .
And then shows that righteousness which is not of the law but by faith pointing to Abraham . Who while uncircumcised was counted righteous because he believed God .
God treats both Jew and Gentile the same but shows how righteous God is and that man has no excuse for wether by the law or without all have sinned . (In truth man cannot keep his own law .)
The answer from God is the same for both . Faith in Jesus Christ .
In truth while at the moment some Jews are saved the most still have a veil over their face blinding them from the truth .
But there is coming a day when the Lord will save them in a day ( even as old in Egypt) and "They shall see Him who thry had priced " and does not Paul in Ephesians(?) speak of make if "Twain one new man in Christ" ?
Spiritually then Does not God deal with all men the same? And will judge all by Christ?
Many believers maintain that we need to obey the Decalogue, in spite of the condemnation that it brings when we fail to "keep the whole law" ( James 2:10). I sense that these folk are considering this subject at the superficial level, i.e. God has spoken, and "the Law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good" ( Romans 7:12), so it remains current & very much applicable for us today to follow. And this would, or should, include keeping the Sabbath, which strangely very few do. And let's not include circumcision.
Whereas, like the Tithes and the hundreds of commandments, ceremonial laws, & the sacrificial system given to Israel to follow and perform meticulously, none of it bears upon us in Christ in any way, to us who have been given new life, under a new abiding Covenant, and God's eternal and comprehensive Laws directed to each of our hearts by His Holy Spirit. Israel of old determined their actions according to the Law that they were given, which then affected their conscience and sacrifice was made each year. Our actions & responses are according to the dictates of the Holy Spirit, which go far far beyond anything that the Old Law could ever do: it only brought condemnation and then the need for sacrifices to stay God's Hand of Judgement. Animal sacrifices were temporary and weak at best; but the Sacrifice of the Lamb of God is eternal and completely forgives and justifies ( Acts 13:38,39; Romans 3:23-28). Just thought to give a little addendum to your original question. Blessings.
Tithing is very good, if it helps towards building up the real church, the body of Christ. Tith is only one- tenth; But what about the remaining 9? ( Luke 17:17).
We are created in God's image and we bear Christ's name and seal on us ( Matthew 22:19-21). We are requested to offer ourselves (fully, not one- tenth) as a living sacrifice to God ( Romans 12:1). Then the people in our contacts may get the message of the Good News and turn to God. To live a Christian life (means complete surrender to His will) is the way to win our dear ones for Christ ( 1 Peter 3:1-2) The Cross may be heavy, but the end is glorious beyond imagination ( Psalms 126:5)
And I believe that this instruction is about a heart that has an attitude of generosity to others and complete faith in God, not just to the local Fellowship, but to those in need around them & supporting those in the ministry of the Gospel. We are to give according to our faith, our conscience, as God has blessed us. The widow's last two mites had greater value than all the 'tithes' & general offerings cast in by others. The LORD could multiply those valueless mites in an instant and that widow would have been the one to receive the greater blessing for her devotion to the LORD and sacrificial giving in faith, faith in the God Who was her "Yahweh-Yireh". That said, for the new believer uninstructed in these things and still desiring a dollar amount to give as his regular offering and exercise of faith, I would suggest that a tenth of one's earnings was a good place to begin, yet to always be open to the LORD and to the needs around him. When we have sensitive compassionate hearts, our yearning to reach out and help, must go beyond any monetary amount but the giving of ourselves to the LORD for His use in whatever way He enables and directs us. If we then disobey Him, the greater suffering will be ours. GBU.
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