Ye have wearied the LORD with your words. Yet ye say, Wherein have we wearied him? When ye say, Every one that doeth evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and he delighteth in them; or,
WHERE IS THE GOD/(ELOHIM) OF JUDGMENT?
Behold, I WILL SEND MY MESSENGER, AND HE SHALL PREPARE THE WAY BEFORE ""ME"": and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
They asked:
"WHERE IS THE GOD/(ELOHIM) OF JUDGMENT?
He answered;
Behold, "I" WILL SEND MY MESSENGER
HE SHALL PREPARE THE WAY BEFORE "ME"
John the baptist was the messenger.
He prepared the way for Jesus!
He was God when he answered and he was God when he came.
Hi , God is a Spirit , the "Me" is the Spirit of God , God's Holy Spirit , which Christ , the chosen vessel , was filled with without measure . He will be whom He will be , He will manifest Himself in who He will , God is a Spirit . He can grant any of us a measure of His Spirit at any time but only Christ received it in full and was therefore the very image of God , but Christ was still a person , a human from his mother's womb he was the chosen vessel , created by God for that specific purpose , the lamb slain from the foundation of the world , the lamb that God Himself killed and skinned to make garments for Adam and Eve in order to cover their shame from the knowledge of their own sinfulness . That lamb was not literally Christ , it was still a lamb , flesh and blood , see the parallel ?
"God is a Spirit , the "Me" is the Spirit of God , God's Holy Spirit , which Christ , the chosen vessel , was filled with without measure.
End quote.
Yes, God is a Spirit and yes Christ was filled with without measure.
The "Me" we are referring to in Malachi 3:1 is interacting and answering a specific question in the previous verse.
Malachi 2:17.
"Where is the "ELOHIM" of judgment?
That question is answered in the next verse, Malachi 3:1
"Behold, I WILL SEND MY MESSENGER, AND HE SHALL PREPARE THE WAY BEFORE "ME": and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to "HIS" temple,
So yes, you have the triune God represented in the usage of the name Elohim here.
And Jesus represented the fulfillment of this in his 1st coming and will again "with completion in his 2nd coming.
As for God being a spirit, that doesn't limit God! He can do "Anything." The scripture says that and I can believe that without comprehending it. He can certainly manifest himself in the flesh as scripture says " 1 Timothy 3:16. God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
With God's ability to do anything and be anything.
If we take what the scripture plainly and literally says,
I wouldn't dare question it concerning this.
And I certainly wouldn't rob Christ of his Glory and apply it to Angels in the usage of the name Elohim.
Thanks for elaborating and clarifying your view about Jesus more in this post.
My understanding of what you presented here and in other posts is that you believe:
1) Jesus did not exist before His conception in Mary.
2) He was only a human person
3) Jesus was able to speak the words of God, live sinlessly, perform miracles only due to the indwelling of the Spirit of God in His human person.
4) Jesus is not God
5)Jesus is the Messiah (Christ) promised in the OT
6) Jesus died solely as a human person.
7) His death saves sinners from condemnation.
8) If He did not have the Spirit in all fullness he would have only been a mortal human person.
I may be wrong on sone of these points, as you did say that Jesus was God in the flesh I think. Please go through these points and let me know how you believe on each of these points so that I can more clearly understand your foundational beliefs about Jesus. Knowing these things about you will be helpful to me when I read your posts to know what perspective you are representing in your comments. I only am asking this in love for you and after praying on whether to enter this conversation with you, Chris, or Ronald as well as whether I should ask you about the points I put forth here.
If it were possible for a human being to live a sinless life just by having the Spirit indwelling in them (even without measure) then there would be no need for Jesus'sacrifice on the cross. God would just have filled us with His Spirit and everything would be OK. He could have done that from the very beginning, with Adam and Eve. Why sent Jesus on earth?
I have to point this out brother , are you really saying that there is a limit to the power of God's Holy Spirit ? That's what it sounds like when you say that the indwelling of God's Holy Spirit can't make a person not sin . I'm sure I must have got you wrong on this but I need clarification please .
I agree with you that our all powerful God can give his spirit to a vessel and make him a sinless being.
But that sinless being
/Vessel would still be born of Adam and can only inherit what Adam has to offer. Death!
Adam was "MADE" a living soul, He didn't become one!
A living soul could never give life even if he was sinless.
Christ was a quickening (Life giving) Spirit. He didn't have to become one. HE WAS, AND "IS ONE"
Only the Son of God can make us Sons of God.
Any other person wouldn't be a Son of God!
Jesus had no Earthly Father.
So we should consider these scriptures to perhaps understand "Why a Son?"
Galatians 4:4-6.
But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
To redeem them that were under the law, THAT WE MIGHT RECEIVE THE ADOPTION OF SONS.
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
John 1:12-13.
But as many as received him, TO THEM GAVE HE POWER TO BECOME THE SONS OF GOD, EVEN TO THEM THAT BELIEVE ON HIS NAME:
WHICH WERE BORN, ((NOT OF BLOOD, NOR OF THE WILL OF THE FLESH, NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN)), ""BUT OF GOD"".
Romans 8:19-23. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
God could have done a lot of things but He chooses the Way because He is God and we most definitely are not . He is Righteous and we are not , He is all knowing and all understanding and we are not , that's why God did it this way .
Your first sentence in this post bowled me over . Just by recieving the Spirit , by that you mean God's Holy Spirit ? You don't belive that receiving God's Holy Spirit without measure could cause a state of sinlessness ? I think it could . However , Jesus was still made of flesh and therefore he had a choice . By choosing to resist the temptation of the flesh and serve it , he chose to submit his flesh to the Will of God . If Jesus were God this wouldn't be a choice would it ? It would be a foregone conclusion that he would do the right thing because he wouldn't have been tempted by his fleshly fears or desires to disobey God and come down from the cross . Just recieving God's Holy Spirit without measure couldn't cause someone to live a sinless life for three years ? That's a bold statement .
Adam and Eve were in a sinless state before disobeying God's commandement. The angels are also in a sinless condition, but this didn't prevent satan and others from revolting against God. We don't know whether Adam and Eve were having, as well as the angels are having, God's Spirit in them, do we? But the way I understand it is that even if one has the Spirit without measure in them they still have a free will and can still disobey God if this is what they want to do. Our free will is not affected by God's Spirit. We can still do what we want and choose to do. (this why we can meet christians who do not have a fruit in their life, and this is because they don't give room in their heart to the Spirit). So even Jesus who as a man had the Spirit without measure could had chosen to quit His struggle against satan while he was hanging on the cross. He was feeling the same pain and agony as any other human person and He could had quited. He could have said, "I can not stand it any more, let me stop the whole thing here." The Spirit could not affect such a decision. And He would had canceled God's plan for salvation. On the cross was where He fought against satan without being in any superior state than any other human being.
Now back to the original question. Can somebody who has God's Spirit in them without measure be tempted to sin? Well my answer is yes, they can still choose not to obey God. So for Jesus it was a matter of decision, to obey God and go all the way to the end or stop. Well I don't want to go further on because I feel I am walking on an unkown path. I may be wrong and change my mind later on. GBU
Hi Gianni's and thank you for your reply to me . Please don't worry about it , I thought that in the way you worded your message , you were limiting the power of God's Holy Spirit , I now realise that wasn't your intention , so that's cleared that up , thank you again and may God bless you .
I will not answer your question now because it is not that simple and takes time and thinking to do it but I would like to say this:
It would be completely irresponsible for God to take some other person to make Him pay for His creation that went wrong. If Jesus was a mere human being why would He sacrifice Himself? Just because God let the man He created sin? It wasn't Jesus' fault, why Him pay for it? I think you get me. Let me give you an example. Suppose I did some business that went wrong . Would I place the responsibility on somebody else's shoulders for it and make him pay for my failure? If I did that then I would be considered as a crook, wouldn't I? Similarly, God made the man and God Himself had the obligation to save Him, not by sending some other innocent person, or even an angel, to do it, but going out there Himself to do what had to be done. It was God, through Jesus, who created mankind and it was God's responsibility to save them. But He had to be a man as well. Because only a man could represent mankind on the cross. So he prepared a human body for Him and came down to earth on the proper time to save us all.
Simple isn't it? Lets not go away from simplicity. Most heresies do that, they try to dig deep down to a ground that they do not know. And they fail. The gospel is simple, it means what it is written. And in the Bible there are plenty of verses that show the human side of Jesus, as well as plenty verses that show His divine nature. If we want to have a full picture of it we have to take both into account. One can not get the picture of a puzzle unless he picks up all the pieces. If not then he gets a distorted picture. Sometimes we may not understand the whys but we have to take it simply as it written. My opinion.
You write, " Sometimes we may not understand the whys but we have to take it simply as it written. My opinion." I fully agree . It is not an opinion but truth. "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD."(Is.55:8). The Bible is the God document and is four instruction in righteousness. When we say we are good by nature and do good we speak from our own view. It is like describing what is above without ever leaving the house. Whereas God has a complete picture. So faith is the only way. Our righteousness is like filthy rags.
Lest we forget that Jesus is God manifested in the flesh-as you stated in a previous post, He is the Divine Son of God. He has both a divine nature and a human nature, but is only one person, the divine Son who is God. As God, He cannot be tempted by sin nor ever commit sin. But in His human nature He could be tempted by sin as Heb 4:15 says. However, sin He has no sin nature like us, all temptations to sin come from outside of Himself. Although He was indeed tempted daily by sin, His divinity did not allow Him to give into sin because the divinity of Jesus could not sin and the divinity and humanity of Jesus are two natures united in the one Person of the Divine Son of God.
In the wilderness, the devil did tempt Jesus repeatedly trying to get Him to sin in both His divinity and humanity. One of the things Jesus said to the devil in Luke 4:12 was that thou shall not tempt the Lord your God, both identifying himself as the God mentioned in the OT quotation Deut. 6:16 and He was telling the devil that He, Himself was the Lord HIS God. Jesus was God over the devil. He is God over every creature He created and that the devil was sinning against God when He tempted Jesus.
The humanity of Jesus was indeed tested, but in His humanity and in His divinity, He always obeyed the Father because the fullness of God dwelled in the incarnated humanity of the divine Son, Jesus. Jesus said that He and the Father are one and if You have seen Jesus you have seen the Father. Also He said that He, Jesus was to be honored just as the Father is honored, meaning they are equally God and share the same glory and deserve the same honor as God. ( John 10:30; John 14:19: John 5:23)
Jesus' humanity was filled with the Spirit without measure, His divinity had all the fullness of the Father and the Spirit as the divine Son in unity of the Godhead. No human is like that and every mere human has a sinful nature (not Jesus) and can still will to sin even with the fullness of the Spirit
Hi Gigi , hope you are having a great day in the Lord today .I personally do not believe that Jesus was identifying himself as God in Luke 4 : 12 . I believe that , as with the previous temptations that satan puts before him , he is using scripture to ward off the temptations .Therefore Jesus is saying : no , I will not throw myself off of this pinnacle just to see if God will stop me from hurting myself . Also please notice that satan himself , refers to Jesus as the Son of God in verse 3 as well as verse 9 .
How that was helpful to you . It's a lesson for us all , that we should not knowingly put ourselves in danger whilst automatically expecting God to intervene . May God bless you Gigi .
I can agree with you that Jesus was using Scripture to address the temptations the devil was bringing to Him. But I believe that Jesus is the author of Scripture and was therefore being addressing the devil with the Scripture to chastise Him and refute Him.
Even though we differ in how we view this Scripture, it is good that we can speak to one another on this forum with kindness and concern for one another.
I hope your day is going very well. I am recovering from a minor foot surgery, so in a boot. Clunk. clunk! Going to try to drive with it today, but I may need to remove it to drive. Hopefully I can not need it come Monday after I see the doctor.
Thanks you for pointing out this truth God has revealed in Scripture by the Son, and the Spirit of Truth.
This adds to my postings in a very good way. Those who believe that Jesus is indeed God and Man believe this fundamental truth of the one true faith passed down to the saints by the apostles. Those who do not believe that Jesus is God and Man are in error and believe and promote a different and false Jesus than what has been clearly revealed in Scripture when they say He is a created being, merely a human, earned his adoption and title of the Son of God at his conception, baptism, death, resurrection, ascension, or glorification as merely a human person.
It is important for Christians to profess the truth of the real Jesus revealed in Scripture by the Himself, the Father, and the holy Spirit, believe it deeply, teach it correctly, and defend this truth about Jesus being God and Man against every and all who believe, profess, promote, and teach the false Jesus who is only a human person or other creature created by the one solitary God. This false belief inevitable teaches that created beings can change their nature to come to share the One Divine Nature that only the three distinct Person existing in the Nature because their false Jesus did by adoption or reward or appointment by God for living the sinless life because he was indwelt by the fullness of the Holy Spirit.
Our God is so very great, transcendent in His Triunity of Persons and Oneness of Being, and His graciousness to reveal this mystery we are able to understand in part but not in totality. When we get to heaven we will behold the fullness of God in the God-Man Jesus, the only eternal Divine Son of the Father. Hallelujah! Praise to Him forever!
Giannis, when we get to heaven we will know who is right in their belief on this matter and who is in error, but all will learn so much more than this about the completely majestic, beautiful, unfathomable God who has called us.
Jesus was not two Persons, a human Person and a Divine Person, or just a human Person. The Person of Jesus is only the Divine Son who has two natures, a mortal human nature who was created at the conception (incarnation) and an eternal divine nature that always existed intrinsically in the one unified Being of God as the Son of the Father.
The Incarnated Divine Son of God was named Jesus (Savior) Since He was God in human flesh, He could not sin, because the divine Personhood of Jesus could never sin and the human nature of Jesus was always subject to His Divine Nature.
Jesus lived the perfect human life that no other human could ever live. As God, He could do this. Not event he angels could do this because they are a created entity whose holiness and lack of sin is maintained by God as God's choice, but He did not keep all of the angels from sin, so it is always a biblical fact that angels are made capable of sinning. Jesus, as God was never capable of sinning. This is called Impeccability in theological terms.
If one merely human person could live a human life, he would be acceptable to God for being sinless and holy, but such a person could not make any other human acceptable to God. Only the righteousness of a sinless divine Person who lived a perfect human life as God incarnate could make any and all human persons acceptable to God by His sinlessness, sacrificial death, victorious resurrection accomplished by the power of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and His glorification as God and Man forever to be the righteousness of all who believe and trust Him as our Mediator and God's Mediator, reconciled the elect to the one Being of God.
no mere human being ever could live a perfectly sinless life because every mere human being is corrupted by sin by their innate sinful nature that is present in them at conception. They are sinful before they are born. Even if a mere human being had the fullness of the Holy Spirit indwelling them, they would still not be able to live a sinless life because of this same biblical truth.
Jesus was not a mere human being, but God in the flesh: Emmanuel-God with us. Col. 2:9 says that the fullness of the Godhead whether referring to; the three persons of the one Being or the Divine Nature, or the one Divine Being; or all) Jesus was the divine Godhead revealed to mankind in the divine Person of Jesus in the Incarnation when the Divine Son became a human with a body and nature, but not with sinful nature. John 1:14; Hebrews 2L14; 4:15)
Jesus is the eternal divine Son of the Father in the intimate union of the Triunity of the Persons of the Godhead. Even when He was incarnated, He remained the God, since the essence and Being of God is shared equally and fully by all three Persons because all three are called God in Scripture, as I noted in my posts on God Is Spirit AND God is Son and Savior.
Phil 2:6 speaks that Jesus exists as God, but affirmed that His equality with God was not something He grasped from God or acquired and that it cannot happen in any way since God said that there has never been any other God formed before Him, or will there by after Him, nor at any time. Jesus was eternally God with the Father and Holy Spirit. But He humbled Himself to become a man so that He could carry out His work in the everlasting covenant between the Godhead that was determined before anything was created. He was not created, ever, as a created entity nor as a divine Person. In the incarnation, the Father created a human nature and body for the Divine Person, God the Son, and caused this Divine Son to be conceived in Mary and develop as a human.
Thanks for your time and interest Gigi , however , I don't feel the need to continue explaining my beliefs . I believe the Bible , the Word of God and I am excitedly awaiting the return of Christ to earth to set up his Father's Kingdom . This is my joy and I'm focused on it . I do think that I have posted plenty of scriptural references and explained my beliefs enough . I don't feel the need to continue doing so , I read the same Bible as you and everyone else on here . Christ is at the door and I'm focused on him and doing my best to live in him . I'm not at all offended or perturbed by people who don't believe the same things as me , so I hope that I don't offend or perturb anyone else . May God bless all who search for His Eternal Truth .
I kind of thought this would be your reply. Please know I respect your choice here. Yet in doing so, you will probably be misunderstood on this forum by many others. And that saddens me. I anticipate that others will continue to ask you to clarify your comments. Even though you say what you post is very clearly stated, it often is not. You may know in your mind what you mean, but the way you express it on here does not convey a clear meaning. I am not trying to criticize you, but only say that communicating to others is important. And in doing so, most people would want to do so in a clear and coherent way so others can follow our meaning and how we support it. Whatever you choose to do here is your freedom as it is mine to share in my way. So, be blessed and do not take offense of me here as I do not take offense at your reply that I am replying to.
WHERE IS THE GOD/(ELOHIM) OF JUDGMENT?
Behold, I WILL SEND MY MESSENGER, AND HE SHALL PREPARE THE WAY BEFORE ""ME"": and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
They asked:
"WHERE IS THE GOD/(ELOHIM) OF JUDGMENT?
He answered;
Behold, "I" WILL SEND MY MESSENGER
HE SHALL PREPARE THE WAY BEFORE "ME"
John the baptist was the messenger.
He prepared the way for Jesus!
He was God when he answered and he was God when he came.
Blessings.
Part 2.
There's things in scripture we cannot understand in our natural state, just like we cannot produce fruit in our natural state.
However God's Spirit reveals truth that the spirit of this world rejects.
Here's one of many examples; John 1:1-3.
Verse 1 plainly states
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, AND THE WORD WAS GOD.
( You can't add to that it is written directly, plainandsimple.)
You can only reject this truth, take away from it and attempt to redefine it.
However, by this verse and many others, by the Spirit of truth, we recieve it. (It's a plain and direct statement of fact.)
Likewise verse 2) "The same was in the BEGINNING WITH GOD. That's plainly stated!!
Likewise verse 3.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
You have to consider these verses and there's nothing needed to be added to magnify the meaning of these verses.
No one "By the Spirit of God" would take away what's so plainly stated.
Any other Christ represented is NOT Christ.
God bless.
Thank you, you are a brother as others I have had discussions with. We'll see, have a great weekend.
God bless,
RLW
We may not agree on certain topics but You are my Brother and a dear friend. I know I sound disappointed, I'm heartbroken.
I believe we face critical days ahead and no sheep should wonder alone.
God bless you Brother.
God bless.
Thanks for responding.
Part 1.
Your quote in response to me as follows;
"God is a Spirit , the "Me" is the Spirit of God , God's Holy Spirit , which Christ , the chosen vessel , was filled with without measure.
End quote.
Yes, God is a Spirit and yes Christ was filled with without measure.
The "Me" we are referring to in Malachi 3:1 is interacting and answering a specific question in the previous verse.
Malachi 2:17.
"Where is the "ELOHIM" of judgment?
That question is answered in the next verse, Malachi 3:1
"Behold, I WILL SEND MY MESSENGER, AND HE SHALL PREPARE THE WAY BEFORE "ME": and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to "HIS" temple,
So yes, you have the triune God represented in the usage of the name Elohim here.
And Jesus represented the fulfillment of this in his 1st coming and will again "with completion in his 2nd coming.
As for God being a spirit, that doesn't limit God! He can do "Anything." The scripture says that and I can believe that without comprehending it. He can certainly manifest himself in the flesh as scripture says " 1 Timothy 3:16. God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
With God's ability to do anything and be anything.
If we take what the scripture plainly and literally says,
I wouldn't dare question it concerning this.
And I certainly wouldn't rob Christ of his Glory and apply it to Angels in the usage of the name Elohim.
See part 2 Jaz.
Thanks for elaborating and clarifying your view about Jesus more in this post.
My understanding of what you presented here and in other posts is that you believe:
1) Jesus did not exist before His conception in Mary.
2) He was only a human person
3) Jesus was able to speak the words of God, live sinlessly, perform miracles only due to the indwelling of the Spirit of God in His human person.
4) Jesus is not God
5)Jesus is the Messiah (Christ) promised in the OT
6) Jesus died solely as a human person.
7) His death saves sinners from condemnation.
8) If He did not have the Spirit in all fullness he would have only been a mortal human person.
I may be wrong on sone of these points, as you did say that Jesus was God in the flesh I think. Please go through these points and let me know how you believe on each of these points so that I can more clearly understand your foundational beliefs about Jesus. Knowing these things about you will be helpful to me when I read your posts to know what perspective you are representing in your comments. I only am asking this in love for you and after praying on whether to enter this conversation with you, Chris, or Ronald as well as whether I should ask you about the points I put forth here.
Just to add.
If it were possible for a human being to live a sinless life just by having the Spirit indwelling in them (even without measure) then there would be no need for Jesus'sacrifice on the cross. God would just have filled us with His Spirit and everything would be OK. He could have done that from the very beginning, with Adam and Eve. Why sent Jesus on earth?
I agree with you that our all powerful God can give his spirit to a vessel and make him a sinless being.
But that sinless being
/Vessel would still be born of Adam and can only inherit what Adam has to offer. Death!
Adam was "MADE" a living soul, He didn't become one!
A living soul could never give life even if he was sinless.
Christ was a quickening (Life giving) Spirit. He didn't have to become one. HE WAS, AND "IS ONE"
Only the Son of God can make us Sons of God.
Any other person wouldn't be a Son of God!
Jesus had no Earthly Father.
So we should consider these scriptures to perhaps understand "Why a Son?"
Galatians 4:4-6.
But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
To redeem them that were under the law, THAT WE MIGHT RECEIVE THE ADOPTION OF SONS.
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
John 1:12-13.
But as many as received him, TO THEM GAVE HE POWER TO BECOME THE SONS OF GOD, EVEN TO THEM THAT BELIEVE ON HIS NAME:
WHICH WERE BORN, ((NOT OF BLOOD, NOR OF THE WILL OF THE FLESH, NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN)), ""BUT OF GOD"".
Romans 8:19-23. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
God bless.
Adam and Eve were in a sinless state before disobeying God's commandement. The angels are also in a sinless condition, but this didn't prevent satan and others from revolting against God. We don't know whether Adam and Eve were having, as well as the angels are having, God's Spirit in them, do we? But the way I understand it is that even if one has the Spirit without measure in them they still have a free will and can still disobey God if this is what they want to do. Our free will is not affected by God's Spirit. We can still do what we want and choose to do. (this why we can meet christians who do not have a fruit in their life, and this is because they don't give room in their heart to the Spirit). So even Jesus who as a man had the Spirit without measure could had chosen to quit His struggle against satan while he was hanging on the cross. He was feeling the same pain and agony as any other human person and He could had quited. He could have said, "I can not stand it any more, let me stop the whole thing here." The Spirit could not affect such a decision. And He would had canceled God's plan for salvation. On the cross was where He fought against satan without being in any superior state than any other human being.
Now back to the original question. Can somebody who has God's Spirit in them without measure be tempted to sin? Well my answer is yes, they can still choose not to obey God. So for Jesus it was a matter of decision, to obey God and go all the way to the end or stop. Well I don't want to go further on because I feel I am walking on an unkown path. I may be wrong and change my mind later on. GBU
You have beautifully explained that.
God bless,
RLW
I will not answer your question now because it is not that simple and takes time and thinking to do it but I would like to say this:
It would be completely irresponsible for God to take some other person to make Him pay for His creation that went wrong. If Jesus was a mere human being why would He sacrifice Himself? Just because God let the man He created sin? It wasn't Jesus' fault, why Him pay for it? I think you get me. Let me give you an example. Suppose I did some business that went wrong . Would I place the responsibility on somebody else's shoulders for it and make him pay for my failure? If I did that then I would be considered as a crook, wouldn't I? Similarly, God made the man and God Himself had the obligation to save Him, not by sending some other innocent person, or even an angel, to do it, but going out there Himself to do what had to be done. It was God, through Jesus, who created mankind and it was God's responsibility to save them. But He had to be a man as well. Because only a man could represent mankind on the cross. So he prepared a human body for Him and came down to earth on the proper time to save us all.
Simple isn't it? Lets not go away from simplicity. Most heresies do that, they try to dig deep down to a ground that they do not know. And they fail. The gospel is simple, it means what it is written. And in the Bible there are plenty of verses that show the human side of Jesus, as well as plenty verses that show His divine nature. If we want to have a full picture of it we have to take both into account. One can not get the picture of a puzzle unless he picks up all the pieces. If not then he gets a distorted picture. Sometimes we may not understand the whys but we have to take it simply as it written. My opinion.
You write, " Sometimes we may not understand the whys but we have to take it simply as it written. My opinion." I fully agree . It is not an opinion but truth. "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD."(Is.55:8). The Bible is the God document and is four instruction in righteousness. When we say we are good by nature and do good we speak from our own view. It is like describing what is above without ever leaving the house. Whereas God has a complete picture. So faith is the only way. Our righteousness is like filthy rags.
Lest we forget that Jesus is God manifested in the flesh-as you stated in a previous post, He is the Divine Son of God. He has both a divine nature and a human nature, but is only one person, the divine Son who is God. As God, He cannot be tempted by sin nor ever commit sin. But in His human nature He could be tempted by sin as Heb 4:15 says. However, sin He has no sin nature like us, all temptations to sin come from outside of Himself. Although He was indeed tempted daily by sin, His divinity did not allow Him to give into sin because the divinity of Jesus could not sin and the divinity and humanity of Jesus are two natures united in the one Person of the Divine Son of God.
In the wilderness, the devil did tempt Jesus repeatedly trying to get Him to sin in both His divinity and humanity. One of the things Jesus said to the devil in Luke 4:12 was that thou shall not tempt the Lord your God, both identifying himself as the God mentioned in the OT quotation Deut. 6:16 and He was telling the devil that He, Himself was the Lord HIS God. Jesus was God over the devil. He is God over every creature He created and that the devil was sinning against God when He tempted Jesus.
The humanity of Jesus was indeed tested, but in His humanity and in His divinity, He always obeyed the Father because the fullness of God dwelled in the incarnated humanity of the divine Son, Jesus. Jesus said that He and the Father are one and if You have seen Jesus you have seen the Father. Also He said that He, Jesus was to be honored just as the Father is honored, meaning they are equally God and share the same glory and deserve the same honor as God. ( John 10:30; John 14:19: John 5:23)
Jesus' humanity was filled with the Spirit without measure, His divinity had all the fullness of the Father and the Spirit as the divine Son in unity of the Godhead. No human is like that and every mere human has a sinful nature (not Jesus) and can still will to sin even with the fullness of the Spirit
How that was helpful to you . It's a lesson for us all , that we should not knowingly put ourselves in danger whilst automatically expecting God to intervene . May God bless you Gigi .
I can agree with you that Jesus was using Scripture to address the temptations the devil was bringing to Him. But I believe that Jesus is the author of Scripture and was therefore being addressing the devil with the Scripture to chastise Him and refute Him.
Even though we differ in how we view this Scripture, it is good that we can speak to one another on this forum with kindness and concern for one another.
I hope your day is going very well. I am recovering from a minor foot surgery, so in a boot. Clunk. clunk! Going to try to drive with it today, but I may need to remove it to drive. Hopefully I can not need it come Monday after I see the doctor.
Good to hear from you, Jaz
Thanks you for pointing out this truth God has revealed in Scripture by the Son, and the Spirit of Truth.
This adds to my postings in a very good way. Those who believe that Jesus is indeed God and Man believe this fundamental truth of the one true faith passed down to the saints by the apostles. Those who do not believe that Jesus is God and Man are in error and believe and promote a different and false Jesus than what has been clearly revealed in Scripture when they say He is a created being, merely a human, earned his adoption and title of the Son of God at his conception, baptism, death, resurrection, ascension, or glorification as merely a human person.
It is important for Christians to profess the truth of the real Jesus revealed in Scripture by the Himself, the Father, and the holy Spirit, believe it deeply, teach it correctly, and defend this truth about Jesus being God and Man against every and all who believe, profess, promote, and teach the false Jesus who is only a human person or other creature created by the one solitary God. This false belief inevitable teaches that created beings can change their nature to come to share the One Divine Nature that only the three distinct Person existing in the Nature because their false Jesus did by adoption or reward or appointment by God for living the sinless life because he was indwelt by the fullness of the Holy Spirit.
Our God is so very great, transcendent in His Triunity of Persons and Oneness of Being, and His graciousness to reveal this mystery we are able to understand in part but not in totality. When we get to heaven we will behold the fullness of God in the God-Man Jesus, the only eternal Divine Son of the Father. Hallelujah! Praise to Him forever!
Giannis, when we get to heaven we will know who is right in their belief on this matter and who is in error, but all will learn so much more than this about the completely majestic, beautiful, unfathomable God who has called us.
Pt. 2
Jesus was not two Persons, a human Person and a Divine Person, or just a human Person. The Person of Jesus is only the Divine Son who has two natures, a mortal human nature who was created at the conception (incarnation) and an eternal divine nature that always existed intrinsically in the one unified Being of God as the Son of the Father.
The Incarnated Divine Son of God was named Jesus (Savior) Since He was God in human flesh, He could not sin, because the divine Personhood of Jesus could never sin and the human nature of Jesus was always subject to His Divine Nature.
Jesus lived the perfect human life that no other human could ever live. As God, He could do this. Not event he angels could do this because they are a created entity whose holiness and lack of sin is maintained by God as God's choice, but He did not keep all of the angels from sin, so it is always a biblical fact that angels are made capable of sinning. Jesus, as God was never capable of sinning. This is called Impeccability in theological terms.
If one merely human person could live a human life, he would be acceptable to God for being sinless and holy, but such a person could not make any other human acceptable to God. Only the righteousness of a sinless divine Person who lived a perfect human life as God incarnate could make any and all human persons acceptable to God by His sinlessness, sacrificial death, victorious resurrection accomplished by the power of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and His glorification as God and Man forever to be the righteousness of all who believe and trust Him as our Mediator and God's Mediator, reconciled the elect to the one Being of God.
( Col. 1:20-22; 1 Cor. 5:18: Eph. 2:20; Rom. 5:10) reconciled ( 1 Tim. 2:5) mediator (1 Cor, 1:30; 2 Cor. 5:21
Jer. 23:6, 33:16) righeousness
no mere human being ever could live a perfectly sinless life because every mere human being is corrupted by sin by their innate sinful nature that is present in them at conception. They are sinful before they are born. Even if a mere human being had the fullness of the Holy Spirit indwelling them, they would still not be able to live a sinless life because of this same biblical truth.
Jesus was not a mere human being, but God in the flesh: Emmanuel-God with us. Col. 2:9 says that the fullness of the Godhead whether referring to; the three persons of the one Being or the Divine Nature, or the one Divine Being; or all) Jesus was the divine Godhead revealed to mankind in the divine Person of Jesus in the Incarnation when the Divine Son became a human with a body and nature, but not with sinful nature. John 1:14; Hebrews 2L14; 4:15)
Jesus is the eternal divine Son of the Father in the intimate union of the Triunity of the Persons of the Godhead. Even when He was incarnated, He remained the God, since the essence and Being of God is shared equally and fully by all three Persons because all three are called God in Scripture, as I noted in my posts on God Is Spirit AND God is Son and Savior.
Phil 2:6 speaks that Jesus exists as God, but affirmed that His equality with God was not something He grasped from God or acquired and that it cannot happen in any way since God said that there has never been any other God formed before Him, or will there by after Him, nor at any time. Jesus was eternally God with the Father and Holy Spirit. But He humbled Himself to become a man so that He could carry out His work in the everlasting covenant between the Godhead that was determined before anything was created. He was not created, ever, as a created entity nor as a divine Person. In the incarnation, the Father created a human nature and body for the Divine Person, God the Son, and caused this Divine Son to be conceived in Mary and develop as a human.
I kind of thought this would be your reply. Please know I respect your choice here. Yet in doing so, you will probably be misunderstood on this forum by many others. And that saddens me. I anticipate that others will continue to ask you to clarify your comments. Even though you say what you post is very clearly stated, it often is not. You may know in your mind what you mean, but the way you express it on here does not convey a clear meaning. I am not trying to criticize you, but only say that communicating to others is important. And in doing so, most people would want to do so in a clear and coherent way so others can follow our meaning and how we support it. Whatever you choose to do here is your freedom as it is mine to share in my way. So, be blessed and do not take offense of me here as I do not take offense at your reply that I am replying to.
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