Discuss Romans 12 Page 12

To STANJETT

Reviewing all your vain 'Rhetoric' ( Matthew 15:9), it is obvious that your mind has been corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ ( 2 Cor. 11:3; 1 Timothy 1:3; 4:1; Hebr. 13:9; 2 Peter 3:17; Jude 4).

Please study who the 'Holy Ghost' is and what it means to sin against the 'Holy Ghost' ( Mark 3:29; Luke 12:10).

Matthew 9:12. They (the believers) that be whole need not a physician (Christ), but they that are sick (sinners). Trust us; the large majority of people on this website are 'not well'.

Seek, and ye shall find ( Matthew 7:7).

In His Service.

Andy & Dianne van den Berg - Nova Scotia, Canada

Paul is talking to the church.

Hello Adam,

Yes, I am a servant of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The standard I only desire to use is God's Word, and this is the only standard anyone can use regarding the truth( John 17:17).

Whether we, still imperfect in our sinful flesh, can "know" if we are saved or not is a good question. God tells us to examine ourselves, to see if we are in the faith( 2 Cor. 13:5). We examine if we are walking in agreement with God.

The whole of God's Word shows us that once we are born again, we become a new creature( 2 Corinthians 5:17). We are to be dead to our old ways. Dead to the ways of the world, because the world is wicked( 1 John 5:19). We are not to continue practicing sin( Titus 2:12, James 1:27).

We will still sin because we are still imperfect. ( Romans 7:23-24, Philippians 3:12, Ephesians 4:13). The difference is we do not continue PRACTICING sin, or WILLFULLY sinning. God does not judge by appearance, but by the TRUE state of our HEARTS( Luke 16:15, John 7:24).

If we continue our old practice - our dead in our sins way of living AFTER we become saved, we were never saved/born again to begin with( Hebrews 10:26, Hebrews 10:38-39, 1 John 2:15, 2 Peter 2:20-22).

We are still in the world but we are not of the world( John 17:16, Romans 12:2). On the contrary, we are tasked by the Lord to be examples & witnesses to the world( Philippians 2:15, Matthew 5:14, Romans 10:9-11, 13-15, 2 Corinthians 4:13).

This, I believe, is the "key" to knowing whether or not we are truly saved. If we truly believe.

Explain please

Blessed morning Teboho

It was blessed to be under both we were taught by the teacher when she preached,and you will find yourself by the altar during his preaching . You can tell the difference .........The difference to my understanding is teaching deals with educating ,teaching the word of God in depth to be understood so we can grow to become righteous Christians.



Ministering is touching on areas that affects us daily and convicting sinners backsliders and backsliders

at heart giving the answers from GOD'S word ( not the world's system) that will bring breakthrough to set free ,to turn hearts to GOD comfort, peace and hope ,

ministering to the needs of people

Ministering is like giving medication to the sick

Because these are the last days, we who love God are all being tested and burdened to the very limit. Be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. You have his life in you. That life will never fail you . it's not an easy fix. The days are evil. Always stay in the light, and be a light to others. Peace

whenever something is burdening me i realize that i am being overcome . im so thankful for this verse. overcoming evil with good is a hard one though. any advice on how this can be done would be welcomed. " Brethren pray for us"

More scriptures on Repentance and Conversion:

Luke 18:13 ; Matthew 9:13 ; Psalms 51:17 2 Corinthians 7:9-11 ; 1 John 1:19 ; Luke 15:18 ; Matthew 3:5-6 ; Acts 19:17-18 ; Romans 6:2 ; 2 Chronicles 7:14 ; Luke 19:8 ; 1 Thessalonians 5:22 ; 2 Corinthians 7:11 ; Romans 8:13 ; Colossians 3:5 ; John 5:24 ; Ephesians 2:1 ; Romans 8:2 ; John 3:5-8 ; Ephesians 5:26 ; Titus 3:5 ; 2 Corinthians 5:17 ;

Romans 12:2 ; John 1:29 ; John 3:14-15 ; 1 Peter 3:18 ; Romans 5:1-2 ; Romans 8:1 ; Philippians 4:7 ; Romans 8:2 ; Romans 8:11-14 ; 2 Corinthians 5:17 ; 1 John 3:19 ; 1 Peter 1:23 ; Psalms 119:11 ; 1 John 4:7 ; Romans 5:5 ; Matthew 5:44 ; 1 John 5:4 ; John 16:33 ; James 1:27 ; 2 Corinthians 4:10 ; Acts 11:26 ; Romans 8:29 ; Ezekiel 36:26-27 ; Ephesians 2:2-3 ; Ephesians 2 4-6 ; Matthew 18:3 ; Acts 3:19 ; Ephesians 4:22-24 ; Colossians 3:1-14 ; Romans 8:29 ; Romans 8:29 ; Romans 6:1-2 ; Matthew 1:21

Likely there are more that are missed here.

:)

No believer has ever dared to judge himself and claim to be 'Born Again'. The Word of God teaches us that you must be 'Born Again'. Your experience is typical of a religious experience based on man-made doctrines. It is also referred to as self-transformation ( 2 Cor. 11:13-15). You are still wearing the same garment that by nature you were born with but were not transformed by God.

Our message therefore remains the same: Ye must repent. The repentance process and the transformation and conversion by God takes many years as God teaches all those that come to Him. God taught a host of approximately two million people for forty years. Only Joshua and Caleb were left of the original group that crossed the Red Sea. All the rest died in the wilderness. How long the transformation and conversion process takes depends on the journey of every person. Dianne & I started our journey in 1984 and still submit our bodies as a living sacrifice each day for the transformation and renewal of our minds ( Romans 12:1,2). We know, we are slow learners.

Like every other religious experience your 'truck' experience was just your high-minded thinking. That is not how a person becomes 'Born of God'.

By attending a man-made institution a few hours a week ( Acts 7:48; 17:24), does not mean that a person can make a claim that they are followers of Christ and 'Born Again'. That is falsehood, as in truth they follow after an image of a false god and a false Christ ( Matthew 24:24; Mark 13:22; Gal. 4:8; Rev. 12:9). This is how Satan has transformed Himself into an angel of light ( 2 Cor. 11:13-15).

You need not that any man teach you ( Isaiah 54:13; 6:45; 1 John 2:27), It is only by revelation of God that you will come to know Christ ( Daniel 12:4,9; Amos 3:7; Matthew 16:17; Luke 2:26; Romans 16:25; 1 Cor. 2:10; Gal. 1:16; Eph. 3:3,5; Rev. 1:1). It is a narrow way that leadeth unto 'Life', and few there be that find it ( Matthew 7:14).

In His Service.

Andy & Dianne van den Berg

To the TEMPLE OF GOD

This is the very reason why the believers present their bodies as a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God. Not to be conformed to this world, but to be transformed by the renewing of their mind, to prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God ( Romans 12:1,2).

The renewing of the mind is all part of the Repentance process during which time we prepare a sanctuary (our body) for His Spirit to dwell in.

Only through 'True Repentance' will God be able to reveal Himself, and adopt you as His sons and daughters ( Rom. 8:15,23; 2 Cor.6:18; Gal. 4:5; Eph. 1:5; Hebr. 12:5; 1 John 3:1).

The word 'Repent' means a lot more than what people by nature have been conditioned to believe. It is the key principle of all the teachings of Jesus Christ and the axiom (basis) of the Word of God and a prerequisite and primary requirement for the salvation of mankind. It actually means the changing of spirits - to turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan unto God ( Acts 26:18).

For a better understanding and the 'spiritual truth' of what it means to repent, and learn how and by whom mankind has been deceived ( Rev. 12:9), and what people must do to be reunited with the true and living God and we invite you to seek Him according to the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive ( John 14:17).

You need not that any man teach you ( Isaiah 54:13; 6:45; 1 John 2:27), It is only by revelation of God that you will come to know Christ ( Daniel 12:4,9; Amos 3:7; Matthew 16:17; Luke 2:26; Romans 16:25; 1 Cor. 2:10; Gal. 1:16; Eph. 3:3,5; Rev. 1:1). It should also be remembered that it is a narrow way that leadeth unto 'Life', and few there be that find it ( Matthew 7:14).

God dwelleth not in temples made with hands ( Acts 7:48; 17:24). Also, please read Romans 12:1,2.

On ROMANS 12:2

The Word of God is God ( John 1:1) and is not of any private interpretation ( 2 Peter 1:20).

The word 'Repent' in different forms (repent, repentance, repented, repentest, repenteth, repenting, repentings) is mentioned 110 times in the KJV, and means a lot more than what people by nature have been conditioned to believe. The word 'repent' used in the New Testament was translated from the Greek word "metanoeo", and means to change, transform, to think differently or reconsider.

It is the key principle of all the teachings of Jesus Christ and the axiom (basis) of the Word of God and a prerequisite and primary requirement for the salvation of mankind. It actually means the changing of spirits - to turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan unto God ( Acts 26:18).

For a better understanding and the 'spiritual truth' of what it means to repent, and learn how and by whom mankind has been deceived ( Rev. 12:9) and what people must do to be reunited with the true and living God, we invite you to seek Him according to the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive ( Matthew 7:7; John 14:17).

You need not that any man teach you ( Isaiah 54:13; 6:45; 1 John 2:27), as mankind follows after an image of a false god and a false Christ ( Matthew 24:24; Mark 13:22; Gal. 4:8; 2 Cor. 11:13-15; Rev. 12:9).

It is only by revelation of God that people will come to know the true Christ ( Daniel 12:4,9; Amos 3:7; Matthew 16:17; Luke 2:26; Romans 16:25; 1 Cor. 2:10; Gal. 1:16; Eph. 3:3,5; Rev. 1:1), and only then will you be able to overcome the spirit of this world ( 1 John 5:4; Rev. 3:21) and learn what 'True Repentance' means, and how this whole world has been deceived ( Rev. 12:9). It should also be remembered that it is a narrow way that leadeth unto 'Life', and few there be that find it ( Matthew 7:14).

LUKE 15:10. LIKEWISE, I SAY UNTO YOU, THERE IS JOY IN THE PRESENCE OF THE ANGELS OF GOD OVER ONE SINNER THAT REPENTETH

Paul, explains the spiritual body of Christ. A functioning body,like our own personal physical bodies. Yet too see, within this body there are different children with different gifts! What is profound is that when we understand these truths , the renewing of the mind Paul speaks of is less confrontational, allowing the spirit in each of us to have more significance in the development of our whole person!(sanctification-conversion) Eye hath not seen or ear heard neither entered into the heart of man the things that God has prepared for them that love Him. Our sin is the dimension in man's soul that prevents him from moving mountains!

If there was a way that would make you free from the guilt, the penalty, and the power of sins you have committed or omitted, would you do it if you did not have to sin afterwards? Would you quit all sin and never do it again?

There is a way to do this, it is called repentance to God. Jesus did not die on the cross to save you and yet you still sin. If upon your physical death you are still sinning, you do not enter Heaven as your eternal home. Look at 1 John 3:9, 10 sin is of the devil and those born of God do not sin. True repentance includes sorrow, acknowledging disobedience to God, confessing these to God, asking for forgiveness of them, and having a heart change that you will not do the sin again. Only then does God forgive you of your sins. And salvation does not forgive past, present, and future sin only those from the past only.

A true heart change is a second work of grace that a person that's been saved will ask for and it is called sanctification. Romans 12:1 tells us about presenting yourself to God as a sacrifice, holy and acceptable. A sinner is not holy or acceptable. As in Luke, repent or likewise perish. Even those that just lie now and then, unrepentant, will not go to Heaven. Revelations 21:8

Romans the 6th chapter verse 1 asks if we shall continue in sin that grace may abound. Ro. 6:2 the answer God forbid.

Satan lied to Eve in the garden, telling her that she'd not die if she disobeyed God, but she did die spiritually the moment she sinned. Satan lies to religious men and women today by telling them you can't live free from sin. By yourself, no you cannot. With the help of God, then yes you can, after repentance.

On James 4:4.

Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? Whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world id enmity with God.

The believers are not of this world. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith ( 1 John 5:4).

Additional readings as confirmation.

John 7:7; 8:23; 15:19; 17:9,14,16; 18:36.

Romans 12:2.

1 Cor. 2:12; 3:19. 2 Cor. 6:17.

Galatians 1:4.

Ephesians 2:2.

1 John 2:15; 4:5; 5:4.

The believers and followers of the true Christ do not involve themselves in the affairs of this world.

We believers still bear the corrupt heart and mind of our old fleshly nature. As Paul said in Romans 7:24, "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?"

But then in verse 25, "I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."

It is Jesus Christ which delivers us from our own self. If we are sorely tempted, doubting ourselves, we must remember that our assurance of salvation is based on the pure righteousness of Jesus, freely bestowed on us that believe. We don't deserve it, never did, never could. That is the wonder of grace. His grace and mercy is boundlessly greater than all our sin.

We have the power and authority by the Holy Ghost to cast down imaginations and bring thoughts into captivity to the obedience of Jesus Christ ( 2 Corinthians 10:3-5). We may not always prevent vile thoughts, but we can refuse to entertain them.

One necessary step to gain a victory here is found in Romans 12:1-2, "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."

The LORD wants us to be filled with the Spirit ( Ephesians 5:17-21).

Philippians chapter 4 has much to set our hearts and minds aright. In particular, verse 8 gives us the whatsoevers we should resolve to think about: things true, things honest, things just, things pure, things lovely, things of good report, any virtue, any praise.

Also the book of Psalms is commendable for promoting right thinking and can be read one a day to good benefit.

The whole of God's Word shows us that once we are born again, we become a new creature( 2 Corinthians 5:17). We are to be dead to our old ways. Dead to the ways of the world, because the world is wicked( 1 John 5:19). We are not to continue practicing sin( Titus 2:12, James 1:27).

We will still sin because we are still imperfect. ( Romans 7:23-24, Philippians 3:12, Ephesians 4:13). The difference is we do not continue PRACTICING sin, or WILLFULLY sinning.

If we continue our old practice - our dead in our sins way of living AFTER we become saved, we were never saved/born again to begin with( Hebrews 10:26, 1 John 2:15, 2 Peter 2:20-22).

We are still in the world but we are not of the world( John 17:16, Romans 12:2). On the contrary, we are tasked by the Lord to be examples & witnesses to the world( Philippians 2:15, Matthew 5:14, Romans 10:14-15).

This, I believe, is the "key" to knowing whether or not we are truly saved. If we truly believe.

Amen Bob! Thank you for sharing that.

Verse 2

It was once said this book (bible) will keep you from sin or sin will keep you from this book .

The renewing of our mind with Gods mind through his word is essential.

Teboho thank you for that question. The words ministry and teach are mentioned many times in the word of God and we must ask the Holy Spirit to help us with understanding what context it is being used in for example Romans 12:7 reads "Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching: Now the word ministry can mean to hold a position of leadership example Pastor, Decon and so on and it can also mean to serve or in other words "wait" as in waiter get it, lol then if take the word wait it means to allow time to go by or to service, I am doing this to let you know that ministries have a function in the body of Christ and if you study Gods word he will "Teach" your Ministry through the Holy Spirit. God Bless you and remember One God One Body...

Romans 12:20. What is the the meaning of heap coals of fire on his head?

Olivia, I believe you're referring to a comment initiated by Maryann a couple of months ago. If that is the case, I was addressing the matter of non-violence & non-retaliation, as prescribed in God's Word. Take time to read the following Scriptures: Matthew 5:38-44; Luke 6:27-38; and Romans 12:14-21.

So, these portions of Scripture tell us how Christians are to behave or respond when trouble comes our way. However, we should do all in our power to protect ourselves, our children & our property from wicked perpetrators. But what the Bible teaches is that we must not go on the attack, or repay evil with evil, or in any way do what Christ would not do. The only ones empowered by God to pronounce judgement & give out a penalty is the government. Often even they don't administer it correctly, but that is another matter.

Maybe your question is: "then how can we protect ourselves?" Are we talking about the authorities under instruction from an anti-Christian govt. coming to take you & your children because of your faith? Then I doubt neither you nor I could do much at all given their position & strength. We need to submit & trust God for the outcome. Or else, what would be your plans to oppose them? Using a gun? How far would that get you against the police or army?

But if you're thinking of a criminal breaking into your house or accosting you on the street, then you are authorized by law to protect yourself, but restricted by the amount of force used. Then again, how does one know what crime is intended to be committed? Does any of this help you, or have I missed your point?

TEBOHO i believe that ministering in the KJV relates to taking care of the every day business of the Church, such as the Levites did within the temple where Moses placed the Ark and all the other items God commanded him to build. Teaching I believe is the work of Moses, Jesus and others, to give/explain the word of God. and to show us what laws God wants us to follow and how to be saved in order to receive a place in the Kingdom of God.

Ask the Holy Spirit to help you and he will. James 1:13-17. 2 Timothy 1:7, Romans 12:1-2, Psalm 1

The 4th day is about the government of God upon us.the kingdom/reign of God. We are to fear God who is One and keep His commandments.

God made 2 great lights.

God set the 2 lights in the firmament (the opened hearing ear) of Heaven. Hear, O Israel.

The greater light is the first and greatest commandment to rule the children of the Day who are to love God with all of their heart, soul, mind and strength.

The second, lesser light is like the first. to love our neighbor as ourselves. When we have love for one another, all people in this dark world shall know we are His disciples ( John 13:35). We shall shine as the stars in the darkness of this world. We are to love even our enemies who hate us. In doing so, there is rule over those who are of the night in the darkness of their minds as we let God avenge us ( Romans 12:19) .

Mark 12:29-31 KJV

(29) And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

(30) And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

(31) And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

He made the stars also.as we shall shine as lights/luminaries in the darkness of this world in the doing of His 2 greatest commandments. And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth.

Philippians 2:14-16 KJV

(14) Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

(15) That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

Holding forth the Word/Saying of Life: that God is Light.

(16) Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

to be continued...

Teboho, apologies for neglecting this - I assumed that the word 'ministering' was the main focus here.

If I could give the Greek here: 'didaskon' = to teach, instruct or impart knowledge. It is used many times in the NT as it spoke of Jesus teaching (as in Mt 21:23), those from the apostles (2 Thes 2:15), or teaching within the Church ( 1 Tim 3:2, 2 Tim 2:24, where this gift is generally exercised by the elders who were carefully appointed to lead the Church to fulfil this important function). Often these days, the role of a Pastor (Gk. Poimen) is also seen as not only a shepherd of the flock, but also the Church leader & elder, but scripturally evident, a pastor's role is a shepherd/guide, who may or may not be an elder or have the gift of teaching.

Dear Chris

Thanks for that but you did not answer me fully. I asked what the difference between Ministering and Teaching is. You touched on the first and not the latter. Please assist and explain fully

God Bless

"Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you".We must conceive of the words, Luke 6:27 and Luke 6:28, as having been pronounced with some kind of enthusiasm.These precepts overflow with Love.You have only to meet every manisfestation of hatred with a fresh manisfestation of love. Romans 12:21 and Romans 5:8-10 KJV.

Teboho, if I may offer my understanding on these words. I see these as two distinct types of ministry in the Church just as the other verses that speak of those who encourage others or show mercy are also very useful in the building up of God's people. So, the Gk. word for 'Ministry' (v 7) is 'diakonia', otherwise translated as deaconship or service. So, the work of a deacon would come under the meaning of this word as well as others fulfilling this type of service, which must also include the sisters in a fellowship, who wonderfully serve in many other ways. I see Paul in this chapter trying to point out that whatever gift is given to us by the Spirit, we must use it diligently & cheerfully, for the blessing of the Church & not for our profit or elevation. I hope this helps you.

Dear Adam

What is the difference between Teaching and Ministering that is described in Romans chapt 12vs 7.. I have asked this before and didn't get a response.

God bless

Teboho