Discuss Romans 12 Page 13

Comments by Alex on how Jesus will fulfil the Law. The law will be fulfilled in us sinners by the NEW BIRTH I.E. HIS DEATH, When a seed dies it multiplies ,he told the Greeks ( Gentiles ) Unless a seed dies it abide alone, But if it dies it will bring forth much fruit impling multiplication via his seed etc, Had he not died there wd have been only 1 Christ but b/c of his death he will be multiplied as the stars of heaven, That was the great PROMISE i will multiply thy seed as the stars of heaven, That we might all get a seed to initiate a birth of Christ in us.Every man is gonna get a measure of faith. That good seed is the Word,The contents of that book in the right hand of the Father.Listen carefully Smite the shephard ( his death ) and the sheep will be scattered, THEN I WILL TURN MY HAND TO THE LITTLE ONES, spirits HIS OFFSPRING,Multiplication,She brought forth a man Child which was the H.G. its his children that are gonna be born in us sinners ( our new birth ) AND THEM THAT ARE BORN OF GOD CANNOT SIN thats our new inner man the H.G. REMEMBER unless ya receive the kingdom of God as a lil Child you will in no wise enter there in,that heavenly Child is the result of his seed that is gonna be born in us sinners. Thats what he was trying to tell th GREEKS THE ONLY WAY YOU WILL EVER SEE HIM IS IF YOU BIRTH HIM , and them that are born of God cannot Sin simply b.c that God seed remains in us,we are dead but Christ lives in us . Thats y he always refered to himself as the son of man,Mankind is gonna birth Christ,I.E. BRING FORTH FRUIT UNTO GOD, Smite the shephard and the sheep will be scattered then i will turn my hand to the little ones thats the babes and sucklings that is gonna result from his seed the Word. Thus they come in his Name whosoever receives one such Child in MY NAME. In his name implies he is the FATHER OF THE H.G. the father will send th H.G IN MY NAME. Thus the Godhead is Father Son and GRANSON. THATS Y HE SAID MY NAME IS ABRAHAM ISSAC AND JACOB .GB

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Neither. Because the Law of the Life-giving Spirit has taken those righteous commandments of God & now written them in our hearts ( Heb 10:16). Isn't this then the same thing as being obedient to the Law? No, when we obey the Holy Spirit & not looking to the letter of the Law, our obedience to God then comes out of a renewed heart/spirit that has all that is necessary to obey Him. And this also includes the Fruit of the Spirit, walking in the Spirit & the Law of the Spirit & the Law of Liberty (Js 2:12). So when the Law says, Do not kill, we now know that it also applies to those who are angry with another without cause. When the Law says, Do not commit adultery, it now means even just the act of looking at a woman with lust ( Mt 5:21,22,28,29). If we want to buy a bunch of grapes, are we immediately convicted if we want to just take one to check if it is sweet? Or, do we justify our actions?

We have never denied the righteousness of God's Laws, but the Scripture tells us that only through Jesus we can be saved & only by His Spirit we can keep God's Laws that went beyond the letter & that which is now inscribed in our hearts. So even if we didn't have Scriptures as mentioned in Matthew 5 to teach us, I know we would still be aware of its Truth as the Spirit teaches us God's Holy demands upon us. We don't need to know God's Laws as they are already written in our hearts & we can choose to obey to enjoy God's fellowship & favour or disobey so allowing our sinful nature to resurrect itself.

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Mercy Seat ( 1 Jn 2:1. God now meets us through Christ Who is our Mercy Seat, for the expiation of our sins & averting the Wrath of God from us).

So, it is only through Christ that we can see God's Holy requirement for His people (Jew & Gentile alike). If God saw us through the keeping (obedience) to the OT Law, then the Cross of Christ is made pointless & of no effect. Hence, Rom 8:3 reminds us that the Law was weak through the flesh (i.e. inadequate/ineffective because of our inability to fulfil the whole Law). If we sinned in even one aspect of the Law, we have sinned in all (Js 2:10). There was nothing wrong with the Law: it was our inability to keep the whole Law that proved our sinfulness, which meant that God had to send His Son, His Word in the flesh to take the punishment for us. Why? So that the righteousness of the Law might then be fulfilled in us & not in the keeping of the Law.

Are they correct, who say that we must obey the Law? If they maintain that we have to obey God's Law to the letter as well as being saved by grace through faith, then that belief is in direct violation to the meaning of the Cross & what the apostles preached & gave their lives for. In biblical terms, we never have to obey God's Laws as given to Israel to be right before God, because they could never work; we now look to Jesus Who fulfilled those righteous Laws in Himself, so that our focus is not on the letter but on the spirit of the law. So, Rom 8:1,2 gives the best description (transliterated): we who believe in Christ are no longer condemned by the Law, because we now live by the Spirit of God. Why? Because the LAW OF THE LIFE GIVING SPIRIT has set us free from the Law that only showed us our sin & brought death. And so how does this work out in our obedience to God? Do we still come by faith in Jesus & obey the Law to complement it? Or, if that is harsh, then maybe we just keep the Laws in our minds to guide us in our Christian walk? (onto Page 3.)

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Teboho, what has been suggested to you concerning obedience to the Law is not entirely correct as far as the biblical meaning & application are concerned. Maybe it's only on a technical point but when it comes to such an important subject, we need to understand the Scriptures correctly so there is not only no confusion in our minds but also to others when they hear/read this message. So, in defence of the Word on this subject, I submit the following for your consideration & comparison to what you have heard elsewhere.

I doubt if anyone who truly believes in God, in His Son & the Word, could ever say that 'Christians are free to do whatever they like since we are not under the law': this is called antinomianism ("freed from moral law by virtue of the Grace given in & through Christ"). To say this, shows our gross misunderstanding of God's Laws, Whose "Laws are holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good" ( Rom 7:12).

So the questions that we need to ask & address: what are the Laws of God, to whom were they given & what was their purpose? We know that all the Laws given to Israel (as shown in Exodus & Leviticus mainly) were given to them & not to the Gentiles (these were not God's chosen people & not in God's (OT) view for blessing & eternal life). These Laws (the whole Law, including those pertaining to ceremony, festivals, daily life), including circumcision, these made Israel distinct from everyone else, as well as the Tabernacle with the Mercy Seat, where God met with His people. So, all the commandments given to Israel, not only identified them as God's Chosen, but also, through prophecy, pointed to a later, perfect fulfilment of them. Therefore, we understand that God's Son, Jesus Christ, was sent in complete fulfilment of those prophecies, whether in the Law ( Mt 5:17), Circumcision (not cut in the flesh but in the heart by Christ's sacrifice & worshipping God in the spirit, Phil 3:3-5; Col 2:11), (cont'd on Page 2.)

Wherefore the law (Ten Commandments). was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

If you broke even one of the Ten Commandments, you were guilty of all.

Then Jesus gave us 2 new commandments; that if we live our lives by them, we won't need the Ten to teach us again.

It's a process of becoming free to love one another. A prophetic gifting doesn't give us permission to trample on others who have no clue. Love goes where law can't. Most unsaved people know they are sinners. The need to know about Grace; unmerited favor of God.

If you're grafted into God, you'll produce fruit of the new Life.

It's not a matter of the Old Testament no longer having relevance anymore. It does. There are many scriptures there, about Jesus before He was born as the Son of Man.

Also, scripture to us about conditions preceding the End of Days. There are plenty of those in both Testaments. Proverbs are excellent for anyone needing Wisdom; help in living alongside foolish unsaved people. Jesus never railed on people: His heart was Mercy and Righteousness. He wanted to come and set us free from the taskmaster of trying to obey the Torah. NOW Jesus is the only sacrifice that God accepts. He came to earth, fulfilled every jot and tittle of The Law; and sat down at the right Hand of God; the work complete.

He is now everyone's ADVOCATE (or attorney), when Satan comes Accusing us of gross or little sin, Before Almighty God!! Jesus consults in the Lambs Book of Life (names of the saved)....He says this one is MINE. God says: CASE DISMISSED!!! All of your days on earth are recorded in a Book; including your day of birth & death. The Book Of Remembrance: has all the things you have Spoken out loud about God and Jesus.

Tell someone about Jesus and what He's done for you. Even strangers.

Angels lean in to hear your praise.

I think the word 'end' here is similar to the word fulfill. Paul wrote Romans and is not saying it's ok to sin. We're saved by grace, but this is provided we are a Christian following Christ. Notice what Paul writes in the next chapter: Romans 11:19-23 "...if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off." To me this is similar to Paul saying Romans 6:1. Warning against people who want to abuse the gift. Also similar to Hebrews 10:26. Romans 7 and James 2 explain this. Paul struggles with sin as he says in Romans 7:15 and is trying hard to obey and avoid sin. Rom 7:12 Paul says the law is holy, just and good. God bless...

Dear Adam,

Many thanks for the detailed explanation. Are you then able to provide me with a simple interpretation of Romans chapt 10 vs 4. I believe the view that the new testiment is replaced by the old testement is confused by the above. Hence require an interpretation of this.

God bless.

Hello, yes, I believe the whole Bible applies. I've heard people claim that Jesus fulfilling the law is abolishing the law, that it no longer applies whatsoever. Jesus already said that is wrong in the exact same verse of Matthew 5:17. He said he was not abolishing the law. So, I believe Jesus over what random people say. Fulfilling the law was through his death to pay for our sins, so we have grace as long as we follow Jesus- this is an active pursuit though. But that doesn't mean the law is gone. Keep in mind that Israelites has more than just moral law, but civil law, and ceremonial law. We don't need to follow the Israelite specific laws, just moral law. For example, 'do not kill'. Are some claiming that it's now just fine to kill your neighbor because Jesus fulfilled the law? That would be a very difficult argument for one to make that it's totally good to kill, when the Bible clearly says the opposite.

Jesus already said what happens to people who are inactive, who do nothing, who blaspheme, who follow the world, who use grace as an excuse to sin as much as possible Matthew 7:21-23. Jesus says if you love him, then keep his commandments. John 14:15. If you don't keep them, you don't love him. If you don't love him and don't follow him, is it likely you'll be invited to spend eternity with him in heaven? Jesus warned his followers repeatedly through parables that most people will go to hell. It's interesting how some Christians are trying to claim sin is okay, that it doesn't matter and that it's wrong to say it's wrong. Satan is the great deceiver and even works within the community of believers to spread his lies. It's clear what Jesus already said, so I'm going to believe and follow him and his words, not the words of man.

James 2 and Romans 6 explain this.

Note that this is my belief through years of Bible study and prayer and you will have other Christians claim otherwise. I already know all their arguments and find them unbiblical. God bless...

Explain in detail when you said the old testement still applies. I hear pastors, say we are under the new covenant or new testiment and not the old testimement or old covenant/mosaic laws. What in the old testiment is still applicable?

God bless

romans 10:4 rightouseness, which is in repentence, confession and obedience and I would say forgiveness

romans 14:23

eph 5:18 and be not drunk with wine ,where in is excess, but be filled with the Spirit

Teboho,

I would just like to touch on the sin issue. Something to consider when asking about what is sin and what is not is that in Romans 14:23, it says for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. That is a powerful statement. Anything that is not of faith is sin. And since the literal definition of the word faith means persuasion, anything that is not prompted by God's Spirit is sin. It is God's Spirit in us that persuades us to do the things that are pleasing to Him. That's what it is saying. That's what faith is.

Faith is the persuasion and leading of God's Spirit. And anything that is not of faith is sin. So there's your definition. So whatever it is, ask yourself if God's Spirit is persuading you to do that. If it's not His Spirit persuading you, then it is sin. That's just something we have to ask ourselves, no matter what it is we are partaking of. It's a personal relationship between you and Jesus Christ. What is He persuading you to do? Do that. Anything else is sin!

1. No. Jesus made wine; just don't get drunk and don't use it to tempt or cause others to stumble.

2. No.

3. If we're actively following Jesus then we're covered by grace and have hope for eternal life in heaven. We should obey God's laws, but since all are imperfect sinners we are covered by grace when we sin. The law still applies, but is fulfilled in that we aren't subject to its original punishment of death, but life with Jesus. James 2 and Romans 6 explain this.

What is the difference between Teaching and Ministering that is discussed in the book of Roman's Chapter 12 vs 7

Kind Regards

1) Is it a sin to drink wine.

2) Is true that it is a sin not to Tithe.

3) What does the scripture that says 'I have come not to replace the law and the prophets but to fullfil it etc mean?

Kind Regards

What the woman above said could be truth.

Evil men prosper when good men do nothing. Probably hoping someone else will do something. Is this herd mentality?

If God shook the earth, then so can we in our prayer life; specifically spiritual warfare life. Prayers move heaven into action.

Jesus says to pray for our enemies.

Matthew 12:44 and Romans 12:14

I explored this principal and found it to be true! I worked in a company that was full of people stepping over people to claw their way to the top. They got promoted, but I had years of pleasant work days without all the meanness and stress.

The sermon on the mount is full of working principals.

Precious--

You know we are strong survivors though. For me, and probably you also I hope...because of what I've been through I have been able to empathize, comfort, and HELP others that are hurting. I never did anything to deserve all the pain, however, I do know God chose me and you for probably that reason, to HELP someone else. God has also put "Earth Angels" in my life at different times. I hope you know what I'm talking about. There have been several people most of which were strangers, that did or said a small thing that impacted me and I knew God made us cross paths. One important thing I was told and helps me also is that people that abuse others it is mostly about control. So if I continued to feel down or let what the abusers did to me affect me negatively, then the abuser is still in control and "winning". So I do not want the abusers to have any satisfaction and do my best to stay positive. Also, I cannot fathom how a true HUMAN could be so evil and inflict so much pain. I know people like that must have a demon in them, it is the only explanation. So I do pray for them, for them to be released of their demons and for them to find God, find faith so that they may stop hurting others. May God bless you!

Roman -12

Perfect verse I need to meditate on that daily, so my pain and hurts won't overcome me, I'm thankful when god put verses in front of me, to remind me that he's in control, he knows my pain and how I'm feeling, but each day is a challenge, but I will continue to pray and feed my mind with his words,

I'm that person also and has I read your comments, all that you been through is me also, I have to remind myself, that he said vengeance is mine because so many times I want the people who hurt me to feel the same pain they put me through, sometimes I stay up at night trying to figure out how can I hurt that person, that causes me so much pain, because they're still enjoying life and I'm still hurting, , but by the grace of god I'm praying and learning each day that god is my strength, if I don't stay in his words, my mind start thinking vengeance.

Kinda echos to Romans 12:18

If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.

thank you for the scripture reading

Scriptures on prophesy/ prophesying

(There's rules, people) First start in Ezekiel chapter 3:10-11, 17-27. Then 13:1-15. Notice the WOE on verse 3.

Acts 2:17-18; John 6:63; 1 Corinthians 2;12, 14:31, 14:1, 13:9, 12:4. Revelation 11:3; 1 John 4:3, Romans 12:4-7

Poor Ezekiel; he was sent to the House of Israel. Prophetic ministry is just as then. It's serious when you speak in the Name of the Lord. Anything spoken that is of the flesh...will not be confirmed. Be prayerful.

"Thus saith the Lord" is serious business.

Do I think there's no downside to Christians following the world of sin? ( Romans 12:2)

"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."

I think there's a tremendous downside. But scripture tells us that we are not of this world. Our citizenship is in heaven. Being transformed is an inward transformation, a permanent and complete change. And the change comes by the renewing of our mind. God is not impressed with our performance. He wants to change us and transform us here so that we can take it with us when we leave. God wants to transform me and change me from within. And it's permanent! I take it with me. But I am to take care how I build. Some build with wood, hay, and stubble, and some with gold, silver, and precious stones. And no, how I build does not determine my salvation. But what's not of Him, it will burn in the fire.

I hope I've answered all you've asked?

How do I feel about Luke 12:9? "But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God."

I've heard this twisted before and some will say that if you don't confess Christ publicly that you are denying Him. That is not what it says!

This is important to understand. The word "deny," ARNEOMAI, means to reject. The early church believers were put in a position where they either had to confess that Jesus is Lord or that Caesar is lord.

And by doing that, they would be denying that Jesus is Lord. So in order for this to be true, one of two things has to happen. You have to confess Jesus, or, you have to deny Him, reject Him!

Have you rejected Him? I haven't!

I will answer your last question on Romans 12:2 next.

How do I feel about James 2:17-26? If we are talking about faith without works is a dead faith, then I totally agree. But to understand what it means, you have to have an understanding of what the bible means by faith. Please give me your definition of faith. You and I cannot produce the faith the bible speaks of. All we can produce is flesh. The faith the bible speaks of is spiritual faith. Only God's Spirit can produce spiritual faith ( Galatians 5:22). The works that come from us come from the persuasion of God's Spirit persuading us to do those things. But it is His work, not ours. He gets all the glory. ( Ephesians 2:8-9).

Again, due to space, I'll answer your other questions on John 14:15, Luke 12:9, and Romans 12:2 next.

Hi Jesse, is your position that Christians never commit blasphemy of the holy spirit? or that they are incapable to? or they don't have the freewill to?

The Bible says even angels in heaven sinned, because they too have freewill in heaven. Humans have the same freewill, and Christians have the same freewill, do they not? Unfortunately some Christians have turned to evil and denounced faith in Jesus and committed blasphemy of the holy spirit, do you recognize this? Judas did that.

What is your reason for living life as a Christian or trying to be obedient to Jesus, if it has nothing to do with going to heaven?

Hebrews 10:26 You said doesn't refer to salvation, except it does. Have you read the whole chapter? How do you feel about James 2:17-26 or John 14:15, or Luke 12:9?

Many verses say Christians are to be obedient, but are you saying obedience or transforming isn't needed to enter heaven? Do you think there's no downside to Christians following the world of sin? Romans 12:2

Gwen,

Jesus said in John 6:40, "And this is the will of Him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on Him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Everybody that the Father draws to Christ will come. And everybody that comes to the Son and receives Him, Jesus will not lose a single one.

2 Peter 3:9 says that the Lord is not willing that any should perish.

For those who receive Christ, what He expects from us is faithfulness. We are to humble ourselves before Him, submit to His will in our lives, and be transformed by the renewing of our minds. Jesus gave us the command deny ourselves, take up our cross daily, and follow Him. ( James 4:7-10, Romans 12:2, Matthew 16:24). Submitting ourselves to God's transformation process, and allowing Him to renew our minds through a continuous study of His word, is the acceptable, and perfect will of God for us. ( Romans 12:2).

Here are the scriptures on strong drink you asked for: (some abbreviations) Eph. 5:18, Proverbs 20:1 & 23:29-35 , Galatians 5:21, 1Corinthians 6:10, 1 Thess. 5:7, Romans 12:12, 14:21, Isaiah 5:11, Psalm 104:15,
1 Peter 2:11-12
I know it's ok to eat meat but when it becomes gluttony, it's not a good witness. Write these in pencil back of your Bible

This whole chapter feels like my entire life. I survived a horribly abusive childhood and should have died many times. I survived a 15-year abusive marriage and should have died many times also. I know God and his love are the reasons I lived. I have felt His love every day and give thanks. I'm not perfect by any means but my trials in life have taught me many things. I could have become bitter, or an addict, or worse...but Rom 12:21 is the verse that has the most meaning for me personally and I'll admit sometimes I do get down or start feeling angry towards others that have hurt me and loved ones so bad...but I remind myself to "Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good".