Discuss Matthew 1 Page 4

Alex1939...Leentje...Lemme just say this...Had Joseph been Jesus biological Father we cd not be bornagain by the seed of Joseph...We can only be bornagain of that Incorruptible Seed...Even by the words of God...But had Joseph been his biological Father Jesus wd NOT have such a heavenly Incorruptible seed..And Jesus wd have been a sinner like all men had Joseph been his biological Father...And Jesus cd not be Gods lamb if he carried the spot of any earthy being...He had to be heavenly incorruptible God in the flesh...A terrestrial being...Thats y he told the Jews you are from beneath but i am from above...You are of this world but i am not of this world....Remember what the angels told Joseph when he thought to make her a public example...FEAR NOT to take unto thee Mary as thy wife for that which is conceived in her is of the H.G....Jesus had to be God so that he cd sow his Godly seed in humanity...That all men might be bornagain of his incorruptible seed...There has to be a heavenly Birth of a Lil Child in us That Child which is the H.G. that Child of Promise...Under the law the old covenant Isaac was the Child of Promise but under this New Covenant its the H.G. that is the Child of Promise the Elect...Thats y God gives us the H.G simply b/c he is Gods Elect...Behold mine Elect in whom my soul is well pleased, he shall show Judgement to the ppl and the Gentiles...k lemme go

Alex1939...Leentje you are so interesting to read GBU ...But 1 thing you don't understand is Jesus didnt share Marys blood...During Gestation a womans Placenta does not share the Womans blood...Nutrients yes, much so... but neva the blood...The Womans blood wd kill the fetus...A womans Placenta is a very amazing organ...Having the power to make the blood for the fetus but neva sharing the womans blood with the fetus's blood...If you google this it will explain it much better then I...

.....God cd not instruct all the angels to worship his only son Jesus if Joseph was his biological Father...Simply b/c all men carry this curse and stain of adam...The Lamb of God cd not be tainted by this terrible curse and spot of ADAM...The very fact that Jesus had NO Propensity to sin proves that God Almighty was his Absolute Father making him God the son...And an Absolute Son...All mine is thine and all thine is mine...Making him equal to his father....He thought it not robbery to be equal to his father simply b/c he came out of the Fathers Bosom...Meaning Jesus was the Fathers living Word...That heavenly seed.

....Why wd God make this great Promise that Christ wd be multiplied as the Stars of heaven...Simply b/c God wanted a perfect ISRAEL THAT CD NOT SIN...God needed a man that cd sow AN INCORRUPTIBLE SEED IN HUMANITY...Thats y God swore by his very self when he made that Promise...Not Joseph or any man cd ever sow such a seed...It wd have to BE A GOD MAN...The Absolute seed of God...Thats y Jesus is saying to whom the WORD came it made them Gods and the scripture cannot be broken which is the multiplication of very God...Remember God Almighty swore by his very self when he made that great Promise...Gen.22:16...In Adam we all die but in Christ in we will all live...Rememeber Mary wanted Jesus to help her and Joseph...But Jesus replied i must be about MY FATHERS BUSINESS...Not Joseph's business.

..... Hebrews 1 :8 ...Unto the son (Jesus) he says thy Throne O GOD is forever...gb

i like this bible the KJV is the true word of God. there can only be one bible which is the KJV 1611 all the others are false and came from the prience of darkness which is satan.

Job 12:16, Revelation 12:10, James 1:5-7,

Wise men; Matthew 2,

Hopefully these are helpful in your study

He deals with the devil to give us free will

1) If God is God why does he have to deal with the Devil at all?

2). information on the wise men who came from the east. China?

Several replies to my comments regarding the Jealousy Offering in numbers 5 are showing that they clearly did not read with comprehension. I mean that Joseph believed Mary (why would he not? Because she conceived while she was visiting her cousin Elizabeth who was having a different kind of miraculous birth: old age delivery of John the Baptist). But tongues would have obviously been wagging and he may have been contemplating performing the offering to prove to the community her innocence. But he believed her and was not jealous. Ergo was not required to do the offering. If he had any doubts all he would have done was perform the jealousy offering as the LAW DEMANDS of suspicious (just) husbands to save them self from iniquity. So he was a just man and knew the law(s). Yes. This is further proof that he had not lain with her because performing the offering would implicate him as the biological father. See what I mean? He was TRAPPED in the law. His problem: do I marry the virgin or not? There is nothing in the prophesies that say whether the virgin is married or not. So he pondered and was going to divorce her due to PRIVITY: God's equal claim to Mary and the child. He was going to void his promise in deference to another's prior claim. Look up the definition of privity (another probable root of privily). It's different than privately.

Galatians 4:4

But when the fullness of time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made "under the law",

"Quotations" mine.

Jesus was made from the ovum of Mary and made under the law (according to THE MOSAIC LAW) his father was Joseph the husband of Mary. Not because Joseph "knew" his wife but because the law says so. Hallelujah. Fully Son of God and fully Son of man as Christ himself so often reiterated.

Alex1939...Leentje I kindly disagree with you that Joseph was Jesus Father...Had Joseph been his biological Father Jesus wd had been a sinner like all men....But in that Jesus had no Propensity to sin proves that God Almighty was his Real FATHER...

And the Lamb of God cd not be defiled by any man's seed...As all men carry the stain and the spot of Adam...There was none righteous no not one...

.....Them that are born of God cannot sin...Which was Jesus the Christ Child...God cd not instruct all the angels to worship his son if Joseph was his biological FATHER...Jesus knew what was in man thats y he wd not commit himself to man...Thats y it had to be a virgin birth...As all men carry the stain and the spot of adam...The Lamb of God had to be perfect in every way...

.....Thats y Jesus said satan cometh and has nothin in me...Simply b/c no man was his biological father...Thus Jesus had no propensity to sin like all other men....k

Alex1939....Leentje...I kindly disagree, 1st off the LAMB of God cd not be tainted or defiled by any mans seed...As all men carried the stain and the spot of ADAM...None righteous no not even 1...Thats y it had to be a virgin birth...Thus it had to be an immaculate Conception...And Mary was made clean by the word spoken to her...Her fetus was Jesus the living word...Thus she was made immaculate spritually speaking...As DAVID said its the lords doings and is precious in our eyes...Not any man .

.....Thats y our lord had no Propensity to sin simply b/c God Almighty was his biological Father...The word made flesh and blood...Had Joseph been his biological father he wd have been a sinner like all men...Almighty God tells us this is my beloved son in whom i am well pleased...As Jesus was the living WORD ( God ) made flesh and blood...Acts... Feed the Church of God that he has purchased with his own blood...Not mans Blood...It was Gods Blood the blood of Jesus....My Father and i are 1...ok lemme go

.....All men have this horrible Propensity to sin. None righteous no not ONE... but Jesus had no Propensity to sin...Simply b/c God Almighty was his ABSOLUTE Father THAT CANNOT SIN...And he that is born of God cannot sin...Which was Christ Jesus.

My guess is that God chose Joseph to be Mary's husband and help her bring up His Son because He knew that Joseph was a devoted believer in Him and would recognise that Mary was still a virgin and that her baby would be the fulfillment of the prophecies in the old testament . Joseph was not chosen at random . God knew his heart and that he would be a good dad and husband but more importantly , God knew that Joseph believed in Him and in the prophecies of the old testament . He new Joseph had faith in Him and would be obedient to God's will without question .

Hi Leentje. I see two important matters arising from your comment:

a. Numbers chapter 5. The Jealousy Offering that was required involved a long process of questioning & testing. Though, as you say, Joseph would have considered this due to a possible suspicion of his wife, I don't believe he would have ever proceeded with it.

b. Matthew 1:20,21. If it were not for the angelic assurance that the Seed in Mary was implanted by the Holy Spirit & not by any man, Joseph could well have entertained other options with great despair.

Therefore, I don't believe that the matter proceeded further than this. That Joseph, with the assurance & comfort from the Lord, believed that the impossible was made possible & now became a fact; and that it was incumbent upon him to offer no further questions on the matter but accept the status quo, & honor his promise to Mary. He would then always be a guardian to the Child Jesus, though to others in the society, seen as Jesus' biological father with a clear ancestral line to David.

Contrary to most sermons that infer that the "public humiliation" that Joseph was avoiding was a publicized divorce (as opposed to a "quiet divorce" - what is the difference: like slightly pregnant?) he HAD to be pondering the Jealousy offering in Numbers 5. Suspecting infidelity, except I am positive he never doubted Mary, and this particular offering is COMMANDED for a husband to perform to avoid raising a bastard as your own offspring. The fact that Joseph would not perform this speaks to the fact that he and Mary had not yet been intimate although already basically man and wife under Jewish law: engagement required divorce to get out of. He was pondering God's claim on the child ("privity" is a legal definition regarding two parties interest in the same property). The prophecy never states if the Virgin is married. He struggled and almost made Jesus a bastard. Seriously. The jealousy offering in Mosaic law proved that Joseph is in actual LEGAL FACT the earthly father of Jesus. WOW!

Incarnation continued

Or, did the Father create a male seed and place it into Mary's fallopian tube to join her egg with the Son simultaneously taking upon Himself the humanity of this first cell union? Or, did the Jesus put Himself into the male seed the Father created to then impregnate Mary? In Genesis 3 it is said that the "seed" of the woman will crush the serpent. Was this referring to the completed person of Jesus or to the divinely created "seed"? So many questions that we will most likely not find the answer to until heaven. But even though we do not scientifically know the workings of this miracle conception, we believe it. We know that it fulfills prophecy of Isaiah 7:14 "Behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and his name shall be called "Immanuel."'

The fulfillment of prophecy helps us in too be sure of our belief in this extraordinary, miraculous, unique, one-time-only, divine event.

Prophecy also spoke that the Messiah would be a descendant of David, which Jesus was through Mary. ( 2 Sam. 7:12-13.; Ps. 131:11; Jer. 23:5.) So does this mean that Jesus had the DNA of Mary (in the X) and then the DNA of God (in the Y)?

Or did the Father create Davidic DNA in the zygote He created? Either way, because lineages were well kept by the Jews, especially those in the line of David, due to the Messiah coming from him, we can read in Matthew 1:1 that Jesus was the descendant of David. He bona fide manhood (man in essence and nature).

But also, the Scriptures tell us that He also possessed Godhood (God in essence and nature. Is. 9:6 prophesied that this Son born to the virgin would be God in the flesh. "For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulders And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."

So this verse tells us that an actual flesh and blood human child will be born, but also that a divine Son would be given by the Father.

Hello Javier. That's a good question. It is my understanding that Jesus became Jesus (i.e. given this Name) at His Birth ( Matthew 1:21). I don't believe Jesus was known as Jesus prior to His incarnation, rather, the Bible (in the NT), speaks of Him as God's Word ( John 1:1-14). As you know, God is One ( Deuteronomy 6:4); God cannot be divided up into many gods. Yet God can do something that we humans can't: He can send out His Word & He can send out His Spirit. So we don't get three gods, but the One Holy God manifesting Himself in other forms (for our sake). We can't do this; I can speak or write my thoughts for another to heed, but in the end, they are only words. And I certainly can't send out my spirit to do a work on my behalf - even if I could, I would then be spirit-less, therefore, dead. But God is wholly a Spirit-Being ( John 4:24) & can do any work & be anywhere as He Wills - something you & I cannot do as our spirits are confined to bodies of flesh.

So, at the appointed time ( Romans 5:6), God sent out His Word for His people (Israel), just as He did by the mouths of the prophets in the Old Testament days. But this time, God clothed His Word with flesh, so that Israel might not only hear from God directly to them, but also witness that this One from Heaven has come to be the supreme Sacrifice for them. Their other sacrifices were only temporary until the coming of God's Sacrifice: Himself (His Word made flesh).

Then to your question: for Jesus (the Word out of God's Being) to live as a man, suffer & die as a man, he would have had to lay aside those attributes of Divinity that could never permit Him an experience of pain & death. Philippians 2:5-8 gives a perfect explanation of how Jesus had to humble Himself, not hold onto His equality with God before men , instead became their servant. Jesus now is God's Son, & as a man with human feelings, would rightly call out, in prayer, to His Father in Heaven; & He will always be God's Son seated beside His Father.

Matthew 1:21-25 kjv, John 1:14kjv, John 8:58 kjv,

Hebrews 13:8 kjv , John 14:6 kjv, Philippians 2:5-11 kjv.

Hello William. My understanding is that Joseph & Mary were married prior to Jesus' Birth. If I'm reading Matthew 1:24,25 correctly: "Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS"; it seems that after Joseph had settled in his heart that Mary was not unfaithful during their betrothal period, he then married her ("took unto him his wife"), did not demand his conjugal rights ("knew her not"), but abstained until the promised Messiah Babe would be born. Of course, after this Divine Birth, Joseph & Mary went on to have other children ( Matthew 13:55,56).

William,

I am going to say yes, and here's why. In Matthew 1:18, we have the social circumstances surrounding Joseph and Mary.

It says when Mary his mother was espoused to Joseph, and in the Greek text, it is in the passive voice which means that you are receiving the action from somebody else.

This is very important and here's why.



Joseph and Mary were espoused, not because they were engaged or betrothed, or espoused to each other. The passive voice from the Greek means that they were brought together in an arrangement. They were the recipients of the betrothal.



Back in those days in Jewish tradition, contracts were made between two families for marriage. Girls were betrothed at the age of 12 and 13, and the boys were older. And they (Mary and Joseph) were betrothed together by the parents, not by their own choice.

It also says that "before they came together," which is a Greek word that means before their marriage was consummated. And the main verb is "she was found to be with child," again passive voice.

Here is how this worked back in traditional times, the time when all this was taking place:



They had what was called the KIDDUSHIM, which was the betrothal period. It's not exactly the same as our engagements. This is called KIDDUSHIM which means separate, or to separate.

And what happens is that when you became betrothed or espoused or engaged, you stayed separate for a whole year. This was called the time of purity to make sure that the woman wasn't pregnant.

Well, it was during this time of KIDDUSHIM that she was found to be pregnant.

During this whole year that they were separated, and even though they had not yet had a marriage ceremony, they were considered to be married.

I will continue in another post to further explain this.

Can you explain Matthew 1:12? I've always wondered if it was possible God created LGBT to test his two greatest commandments. 1. Love God 2.. Love each other. They are no if, ands or buts. It God's job to Judge people on the end. His commands to us was love them.

so since Christmas is a pagan holiday, its man made. why when i search the topic upon this site it says verse Matthew 1:18-1:25 and talks about the birth of Jesus. I'm just curious

When after the crucifixion and reports by some women that Jesus was risen from the dead .

Two disciples were walking from Jerusalem to Imaus in deep conversation about these things .

It is recorded " that Jesus Himself drew near "(Acts)

He "starting at Moses "began to show them in all the scriptures concerning Himself"

Jesus is in all the scriptures if you look for Him .

The first mention as always is in the book of Genesis in the garden of Eden .

For after Adam had disobeyed God and sinned ,God in His great mercy and love gave them a covering of animal skins .

( for love covers a multitude of sin) but he also gave them a promise .

For if the sacrifice of an animal and a covering of sin had restored them why need of a promise?

" The seed of the woman " A woman has no seed ,it is the man which is why we are Mankind .

But God wishing to show that this one ("it") male ("he") child would not be of Adams seed spoke of the seed of the woman .

Who would bruise the serpents head ( fatal) but in the process would suffer ,who in turn would bruise his heel "

The gospel of Jesus Christ is first mentioned in the garden of Eden .

The first man recorded who put their faith in Him is Abel . Confirmed by Paul in Hebrews .

Who offered a lamb . Thus confessing his sin ,acknowledging the righteousness of God and putting his faith in the promise yet to come . Jesus ."The lamb of God who would take away the sin of the world".

The penalty for adultery in the O.T. was stoning.( Leviticus 20:10-20). Although it is not enforced in most of the "free" nations today it is enforced in many Muslim countries (who undoubtably carried on the O.T. concept). To understand infidelity; we must be clear on what "fidelity" means. In Matthew 1:19 a divorce was considered by Joseph because of perceived infidelity by Mary. It was ALSO considered a death penalty if a man had relations with an espoused virgin ( Deut. 22:23) and she did not protest (verse 25) which in that case only involves stoning the man.

God establishes the marriage covenant with vows and Psalm 15:4 states that we should keep our vows even when it hurts. We pledge until "death do us part" and become part of a vow which God establishes so that we become one flesh in His eyes. Any other relationship is one flesh but the Lord turns away from any recognition and I would say any blessing that can be given to it.

The exception would be the gift of life should a child result; as he or she is not responsible for the parents sin and still has a soul that belongs to God.

We are; of course in N.T. times and called to forgive one another. It is noteworthy that with all the multiple marriages and concubines (basically adulteries) going on that there is not ONE mention of a divorce of any character in the Bible. This makes one consider that a divorce perhaps in the Matthew 1:19 example truly was ONLY for espousal which fits in with the word "fornication". That is my theory anyway. In any case as with anything else if a brother sins; we are to confront them with it.

In the case of certain infidelity it is the church's responsibility to counsel; exhort and when necessary remove a member who is behaving this way. Hopefully the person will be shamed enough to repent knowing many are praying for them but sadly this sort of solidarity is usually missing in today's church.

I pray if that is your reality God restores things by His Grace.

Hello Jesse.

Sorry for my delayed answer. About "genea" brother Chris said it right. If you have a look at Matthew 1:17 it says "So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations." The grk for "generations" here in the grk text is "geneai" (plural for genea). In anc grk it also means race, nationality, place of birth, descent, etc. GBU

I will try my best to have a good relationship with the most high

Hi Louis.

Here is just a few of many.

Genesis 3:15. And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and ( HER SEED;) it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise ( HIS HEEL.)

Genesis 22:18.

Genesis 49:10.

The Passover Lamb of God ( Exodus 12:1-28)

Leviticus teaches the way to God is by sacrifice. JESUS!

Leviticus 17:11. For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

In the book of Leviticus you see a portrait of Christ and his work on the cross. When studying it.

It does well to go back and forward to new testament and present Christ. Especially Hebrews, That picture will paint itself.

Deuteronomy 18:15.

Psalms 22.

Isaiah 7:14.

Isaiah 9:6-7.

Micah 5:2.

Daniel 9:25-26.

Malachi 3:1.

I hope this helps.

God bless.

it is filled with Messianic Prophesies . From Ge 3 verse 15 (your offspring Jesus Christ ) verse 15 He (Jesus ) shall bruise you head (Satan , in all the books

Ask God for help , First step

Hi Louis,

There are a very many verses referring to Jesus in the O.T. I would recommend doing a web search with:

Old Testament verses that refer to Jesus?

You will get many sites that list the verses.

Where in the Old Testament talks about Jesus?

Anonymous,

Doo not give heed to what your friends say. They know nothing about what God can do in a person. In Jesus, you are made a new creation. The old person died with Jesus on the cross and when you believed in Him, He gave you new life in Him. In His life there is not bisexuallity or homosexuality. His will is only for believers to be heterosexual as we are designed to be by Him. So, since He has made you a new creation in Him and You now have His life operating in you, you indeed can live the rest of your life as a straight person. But even more than that, because of His grace, you now have the power to live a holy (set apart for God) and godly (doing what Jesus would do) life.

Just for thought, I'd like to mention how confusing and crazy the teen years can be, as you know in the present. But being determined to live by faith in Jesus and trusting that the Holy Spirit will guide you and protect your life in Christ, you can move forward towards adulthood stronger and with more wisdom than ever before. Stay the course of faith, Anonymous. God will see you through. Your friends do not define who you are, Jesus does. And their approval or disapproval is insignificant when you consider that you are "approved of God in Christ", His precious child who loves you more that your friends ever could (by leaps and bounds) and He treasures you. So, remember, your approval and worth are drawn from God. He smiles on you, delights in you, and sings over you. ( Zephaniah 3:14-17, especially verse 17).

Hi.

Amen and You're welcome

Stay in the word of God and pray always. I know it's hard to do but surround yourself with people like yourself. Hungry for the word of God.

Feel free to ask further questions.

May the Lord bless you on your journey.