Discuss Matthew 12 Page 11

(Part 2)

It says they were made partakers of the Holy Ghost. Notice the emphasis. They were partakers, that is, they were in this interaction and the Holy Spirit was ministering to them. They were partaking of the Holy Spirit as He was enlightening them. But notice they were partakers of the Holy Spirit. The emphasis is the Holy Spirit, not Christ. The Holy Spirit's the one that's ministering. They didn't know Christ.

Hebrews 6:5 says, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

All these tastes, it's like sampling. A non-believer can sit in with believers and receive the same ministry of God's Spirit to that group, even in their own lives, as to the truth of Christ.

So they have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come. They were actually there to participate. I recall the ten lepers that approached Jesus and wanted their healing. So He healed the ten lepers and sent them on their way, and only one of them stopped and returned to worship the Lord, and the Lord turns to the disciples and says weren't there ten lepers? Nine of them just took their healing and took off. Only one turned to worship Christ.

There are people who participate in the powers of God's Spirit moving in amongst His people, and they're not even saved.

Hebrews 6:6 says, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

It says if they shall fall away. There's no "if" in the Greek text. It's just after having fallen away. They've already done it. It's after having fallen away. And you can see in all these things that he's listing, they are all past tense. It's something they used to do that they don't do anymore.

Verse 4 started off by saying it's impossible for these people. Verse 6 says to renew them again unto repentance; Impossible!

Seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to open shame.



Will continue:

Rich,

I don't believe a truly saved person can ever lose their salvation. The book of Hebrews was written to the Hebrews, Jewish people. They were following along, partaking of the truth, but never really surrendered their lives to Christ. It's not talking about a saved person walking away and giving up their salvation.

These Hebrew people were being enlightened to the truth, but when the time came for them to make a decision to surrender their lives to Christ, they would turn and walk away because it was a difficult decision for them. If a Jewish person surrenders their life to Christ, it would cost them everything. Their family would disown them, they would lose their jobs, and they would even be kicked out of the temple.

You see, they were being enlightened, but they were not saved. They made the decision to walk away because surrendering to Christ would cost them everything. So the verses in Hebrews are not talking about a saved person losing their salvation.

The writer says in Hebrews 6:4, for it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and the word enlightened means to have your mind illuminated to the truth. An enlightened person doesn't necessarily mean that person is saved. There are some who say that only believers can be enlightened. But John 1:9 tells us that the light, who is Christ, enlightens every man coming into this world. Every person is enlightened to the truth. So everybody gets enlightened but not everybody responds in the same way.

Secondly: and have tasted of the heavenly gift. They've participated with the things of Christ. They have participated with the Holy Spirit. They don't have Him living inside, but they tasted of that heavenly gift that God gives to His people. They're sitting in amongst God's people and they're participating and they're receiving.

I'm running out of space but will continue:

As i witness to people I am finding more and more people who think they have lost their salvation, both young and old from homeless to elderly and most read the bible or say they do, they all without exception bring up the book of Hebrews, willfully sinning after knowing the truth or Esau about finding no repentance it is heartbreaking to see the pain in the eyes of some of these people. I think maybe some can't forgive themselves, some almost cause me to change my way of thinking because i struggles with some of those issues this is a tough subject and affects many more people than i thought. I could use some help with this subject so when i see them again.

We have to give an account of all the idle or useless words we say, is this for the saved or the unsaved? There have been many times i have spoken out in anger, even when something inside was telling me to be quiet i have given in but afterwards i usually regret it. What about things we have said to ourselves, say someone spreads a rumor about you or a friend or even says something that was told in confidence and you say things you shouldn't have in the car on the way home.

Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Ezekiel 33:11-20

( Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 12:35-36 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Matthew 13:37-43

( John 5:26-29

( Romans 2:2-11

( Romans 6:1-2

( Romans 6:15-23

( James 2:14-20

( 1 Peter 4:16-19

( 2 Peter 2:20-22 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

If God is not, "one being but three distinct persons (Trinity)", as you claim, than scripture must be wrong. Than as Paul states "God forbid". In John 14:26 why then did Jesus call the Comforter (Holy Ghost) "he" as in reference to a person as opposed to "it" as you would describe him, or in John 16:7 "but if I depart, I will send "him" unto you," another reference to the Holy Ghost, as a person. 16:13 "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."

Matthew 12:31 "Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men."

These are but a few scriptures to support that the Holy Ghost is a distinct part of the Trinity of God.

As per your claim "The Spirit is not a person" it would be nice to see some scripture to support your view.

Luke 12:12,

1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." 1 John 5:8 "And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one." John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

John 16:7-16 "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."

Charles,

Really the question I have is how do you know the original disciples/apostles of Jesus Christ didn't teach that the Lord "died" for our sins? As I myself got a little confused, with Paul's trip to Jerusalem between Acts and Galatians, because the Scriptures doesn't always have every single detail.

We can say that Paul met with Peter and James around 36 AD. I'm sure they had an amazing time talking about all types of things relating to the Lord and the Gospel. In 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 Paul states "according to the Scriptures". Which are probably Isaiah 53 and Jonah 1:17. Which Jesus states in Matthew 12:40 that He shall be three days and nights in the heart of the earth. Which His original disciples/apostles experienced this first hand. Which Paul did not. In 1 Peter 2:24 it states how Jesus died for our sins. Which was maybe written around the early 60's AD? Around the same time as Acts was written? So one epistle, not Paul's writing, has it the other doesn't.

Along with Paul meeting with the other apostles less than a decade after the death of Jesus. Then the second time around 50 AD before all written Gospels. I can't see Paul knowing more or preaching more than the other apostles, who lived with the Lord, in that Jesus Christ "died" for our sins.

As I would say that there are many details but One Gospel.

God Bless.

Hello Kristina,

In my experiences and perception, along with Scripture, you are correct. As of coarse He is our Lord and Eternal King. What started from a very personal experience with the Lord I was led to this answer in the Bible about Jesus being our brother. As when we are born again of the Spirit we are also children of God and joint-heirs with Christ. Romans 8:15-17. Some Scriptures about Jesus being our brother. These are for you:

Matthew 12:50

Romans 8:29

John 6:38

John 20:17

( 1 Corinthians 9:5

Hebrews 2:11

Hebrews 2:17

I hope that helps. God Bless.

William, may the Spirit grace you with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

Revelation 12:7 And there was WAR IN HEAVEN.......

Revelation 1:1 .....and sent and signified (or symbolic of) it by his angel....

Revelation 1:3 ....for the time is at hand....

Revelation is difficult at best to understand because most want believe the above two verses. The words were just as true for readers in Johns time as they are to us in our time and will be to those in the future who read them. The war in heaven (which began after Christ was crucified) was happening in Johns time just as it it happening today and will continue happening as long as there is a tomorrow.

Now, with the working of the Spirit let's see if by using other verses as the KEYS TO THE KINGDOM we can come to the truth about the WAR IN HEAVEN.

Luke 17:21 .....the kingdom of heaven is in YOU.....

2 Corinthians 12:2 ....such an one caught up to the THIRD HEAVEN.

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and the Spirit of God DWELLETH IN

YOU?

There is a natural heaven, but an a symbol it represent us (WHERE GOD DWELLS)

Matthew 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the SPIRIT OF GOD, then the KINGDOM OF GOD IS COME UNTO YOU.

Revelation 12:7 ....and there was war in heaven (in you)...

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out..

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice (the Holy Spirit) saying in heaven (in you), now is salvation, and strength, and the KINGDOM OF OUR GOD..

Luke 10:17-18 And he said unto them (the seventy he sent out to cast out devils), I beheld SATAN as lighting fall FROM HEAVEN (from those that Satan was cast out of).

2 Corinthians 10:4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God (Spirit) to the pulling down strong holds (traditions of man).

Isaiah 9:5 For every battle of the (natural) warrior is with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood; but this (spiritual battle) shall be with (spiritual) burning and FUEL of (spiritual) FIRE.

Just so you know, many Bible reading Christians don't believe that. Do you truly believe that saying a dirty word is just as bad as committing mass murder? Or do you believe that someone committing violent rape is no different than telling a white lie?

This needs to be called out, because sometimes even Christians use mental gymnastics to pretend that their sins are 'ok'. No, it's not ok. Jesus said to not sin. He said cut off your own hand if you have to, to stop sinning. Do absolutely anything possible to stop it and avoid going to hell. If you ignore Him and sin, that's like you slapping Jesus in the face. If you keep doing it, it's possible you're not even a Christian. A Christian is a Christ follower which is an action. People who enjoy committing sin and following the world will probably go to hell, whether they call themselves a Christian or not. That is the reality that fewer people these days are grasping the seriousness of. Matthew 7:20-23.

If sin didn't matter, why would there even be a judgment day and why would sins even be reviewed in front of God? Sin absolutely matters and every single thing you do to violate God's commands will be judged. Romans 14:12

I think the false assumption comes from misinterpreting a verse. Sin is sin, but it does not mean all sin is of the same severity. That is a false assumption. For instance blasphemy is different than blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Jesus says flat out that you will not be forgiven for the latter. There are more Bible references to prove that sins have different severity. Matthew 12:36-37

God bless...

We cannot talk of one sin as less bad than another sin. Sin is sin and all sins are bad. God can forgive us even if we sin against Jesus. But God will not forgive the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. The sin against the Holy Spirit is the attitude of a person who chooses on purpose not to believe God. That person has chosen strongly to oppose God's work by his Holy Spirit. It is such a strong decision that the person will not ever change his mind. These Pharisees saw the good deeds that Jesus did. They said that the power to do these deeds came from Satan. They called evil good and good evil. They could see the truth but they decided to oppose it because they are demons. This attitude puts such persons in a state in which they cannot repent. As they cannot repent, God cannot forgive them. And they cannot believe in the Lord Jesus for salvation. KJV Matthew 12:32

Can God forgive ALL of our sins because In Matthew 12:31 the Bible clearly tells us that he doesn't forgive that sin and Why can't he forgive that sin

Isaiah 42:1-4(mathew12:18-20 God showed me I want to understand it deeply. And there many more scriptures too he has been showing me

I can heartily agree with your first paragraph that the Triune God is very Truth. But then you say that the Holy Spirit is not a person. And it's at this point that we have to dwell.

Before I give you some Scriptures, let me ask, "what if God chose to embody His "Truth" (the Holy Spirit), with flesh, as He did to His "Word"? Would that alter your belief that the Spirit is more than the Truth (a Word) of God, but very God Himself by His Spirit?

Some Scriptures for you to consider that the Holy Spirit is not only the 'Truth of God' but sent from God as God: 1 Corinthians 2:10-11 (He is Intelligent, He searches, He knows, He has a Will); Ephesians 4:30 (He has feelings - can be grieved & He seals the believer); John 14:26 (He teaches; notice the pronoun); John 16:13, Romans 8:14; Acts 8:29 (He guides, leads, speaks, hears, glorifies God); Acts 13:4 (He commissions or despatches); Romans 8:26,27 (He intercedes); Matthew 12:31 (He can be blasphemed); Acts 5:3 (He can be lied to); Acts 7:51 (He can be resisted); Hebrews 10:29 (He can be outraged). And these are just a few to consider.

Then if we leave off the word 'Spirit' & replace it with 'Truth' in those Scriptures (as you asked me to try out), in some cases, it could work as the Spirit is Truth, as God & the Son are Truth. But in other cases, that just wouldn't work (e.g. how does the Truth (as a spoken Word) grieve, search, has a Will, feelings, hears, glorifies, commissions, intercedes, blasphemed against, etc.?). And then again, why did God not just use the word 'Truth' (as in 'the Truth shall set you free') but rather shows us that His Spirit (of Truth) was sent to accomplish these tasks? I can see if someone has difficulty with the Doctrine of the Trinity, then understanding the Spirit's part in the Godhead would be a problem.

Please note that Paul said he would "rather" be present with the Lord. Paul didn't say that in 100% of the cases immediately when a Christian dies that 100% of the time he skips judgment day and immediately goes to heaven. In fact, scripture supports the opposite- that the dead will remain in sleep until Jesus returns then will be caught up in the air then judgment day determines where someone goes. It doesn't make as much logical sense either for people to go to heaven then go back to earth only to make a verse true that the dead will rise and meet Jesus, only to go back to heaven again, while skipping Judgment day altogether that the Bible says will happen. So, when you take all the scriptures in context, it's clear that the dead will be in a mode of sleep which will probably pass like an instant to that person, before they then meet Jesus and are judged accordingly. No one is 'saved' until they are first judged. 1 Thessalonians 4:13, Matthew 12:36, Daniel 12:2 (sleep in dust of earth clearly means sleeping in the grave, before judgment), 1 Thessalonians 4:17.

Show list for others. Also adultry

Very simply, it means that the Words of God spoken or the Work of God done in the Power of the Holy Spirit, is being attributed to Satan. This is also what the Jewish leaders were accusing Jesus of: Jesus' claim to be God's Son & His position at God's right Hand ( Matthew 26:63-65). Rather, they were the ones who blasphemed by claiming that Jesus did His miracles under Satanic power ( Matthew 12:22-32).

Therefore, this should remind us to be careful when judging another's words or work in the Lord's Name - we might just find ourselves speaking against the Lord & the Truth, even if done ignorantly.

For the Jews & those today (me excluded) who believe in maintaining the Sabbath Day, then there's no stipulation about remaining in one's house. The Jewish leaders of Jesus' day decreed that a Jew could walk (not ride a donkey) from their 'city limits' as far as 2000 cubits (= 3,500 ft, or 0.6 mile) on the Sabbath. Then some others proposed a further law: that if there were houses within that distance of .6 mile, then if the distance between each house was no more than 112 ft, then one could keep walking. This means, if a Jew planned his trip well, he could actually travel between two cities or communities if there were some appropriately placed houses in-between.

So if you believe that you need to "keep the Sabbath", then there should be no problem about moving about, whether around your home or within the city. The key feature of the Sabbath was that no manual work was to be performed or any engagement in buying or selling of goods. And certainly in an emergency or doing another some good, Jesus gave the authority to reach out & to work ( Matthew 12:10-14).

Just woke up from a loud knocking door in my dreams...

It's a common misconception to say 'absent with the body is present with the Lord'. This idea originated from 2 Corinthians 5:8, but if you read the verse you will see it doesn't say if anyone is absent from their body that they are automatically with the Lord 100% of the time. Paul said he would "rather" be present with the Lord, or he would prefer that. Many Christians today would prefer that also. But just because you prefer something doesn't mean it will 100% guaranteed happen for 100% of all people 100% of the time, or even that it would sometimes happen. No, Paul only said he would "rather" for that to occur. Since the Bible says what it says and not what people commonly misquote, I do not interpret this as evidence to the theory that people automatically go to heaven after death. If there were other verses saying this, that would be fine, but I am not aware of any. Only taking a few verses and making an assumption about it, such as Jesus saying today he would be in paradise. Notice he did not say heaven, but paradise. They may not be the same thing.

If we are going to discuss this fairly we must consider what the rest of the Bible says on this topic.

Matthew 12:36 - People will be judged at some point on the same day. Is it likely that they are judged AFTER they go to heaven or BEFORE?

2 Corinthians 5:10 - People are judged first THEN they receive what is due.

Revelation 20:11-15 - People are all judged on the same day. Lots of people seen in the same place.

Because the Bible says this, it can't mean that people are judged immediately when they die- because not everyone is dead yet, and it can't mean that people go immediately to heaven if they aren't judged yet.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 says the dead will rise and those living will meet the Lord in the air.

Would it make sense for someone to go heaven, then back to earth to rise up, then back again to heaven?

It says people will 'sleep' in-between: Job 14:12, 1 Thessalonians 4:14

Hi Melissa,

I need to know more about this situation before offering any spiritual guidance. If you feel like sharing can you offer more information about what is going on? Or what is causing you to feel that there are spirits living in your house?

What do I do about the spirits LIVING in my house?

I know I'm not in here by mistake!

It gives very inspirational words

Matthew 12:8

For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Matthew 12:32

And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the WORLD TO COME.

Matthew 16:13

When Jesus came...and asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

Matthew 16:27

For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works (saved/unsaved)

Matthew 16:28

Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Revelation 1:13

And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

Revelation 14:14

And I looked, and behold a white CLOUD, and upon the CLOUD one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

Comment: Jesus is the Son of God. After he was born to Mary and Joseph, by the Power of the Holy Spirit; Jesus was then known as the Son of Man (as in Mankind).

He said it himself.

He is ALL son of God, and ALL son of man (human)

If you skip down to the last 2 verses, Jesus was seen by the Apostle John in a vision: as the Victorious Son of man about to put in His sickle and Reap the Harvest of souls.

One of his Names is Lord of the Harvest.

He's coming soon too. I mean no offense, but now is not a time to procrastinate and split scripture hairs over theologies of man, different Bibles, ancient UN-CANONIZED scripture.

Human history is about to wrap up. Write this book of scripture inside your Bible cover: 2 Peter Chapter 3. Have it handy.

The earth is already beginning to burn. It's not Global Warming; it's Almighty God!! He will PERFORM his Word.

Jesus performed miracles on the sabbath day and many people received the healing power of God through Jesus. Some people was hungry but Jesus made sure his disciples and other people who believed in him was not hungry and wanting for food. If you have faith in God you can overcome difficulties in life like hunger and even sickness.

Keith Vaughan

Hiya Earl Bowman Gbu Bro. And thanks for the encourgment.

Alex, may the Spirit (Holy Ghost) continue birthing His wisdom and knowledge in you.

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

John 17:21-22 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe thou has sent me.

(22) And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that we may be one, even as we are one.

Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith (of the Holy Ghost), and the knowledge of the Son of God (Holy Ghost), unto a perfect (mature) man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ (Holy Ghost)

1 Corinthians 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not, for some have not the knowledge of God (Holy Ghost): I speak this to your shame.

Matthew 13 that heavenly seed, Alex comments about the Kingdom of God and when will it come ? B/F he assended they asked Jesus ,will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel and Jesus replied it is not for you to know the times and seasons the Father has in his own power but you shall receive power after the H.G. is come upon you. The Kingdom does not come in all of its GLORY till Christ is Glorfied the 2 nd time,which is when the book is opened,the contents of the book is the New Covenant ,that y they sang a new song when the book was opened.The words of that book are the seeds of the sower which will result in the Glorification of Christ impling his offspring the manchild the CHILDREN OF THE KINGDOM, the Glory of the fathers are their Children that was th great PROMISE MULTIPLCATION of his seed ( offspring ). Thats y John is saying NOW IS COME SALVATION AND THE kINGDOM OF OUR GOD AND THE POWER of his Christ ( her Child ) n v 10. Unless ya receive the Kingdom of God as a lil Child etc impling a heaveny birth via the good seed ( the words of that book) are the good seeds the voice of the bridegroom his words are his seeds. In the volume of the book it is writen of me i delight to do thy will O GOD, THE WORDS OF THE kINGDOM AS Jesus said in Mat 13.The Woman is the field, the world where that good seed will be planted, our hearts, God so loved the world etc thus the Kingdom will truly be with in us simply b/c thats where the Kingdom seed will be sown in manshearts,,Jesus said he dwelleth with you but shall but he shall be within you.Abide in me and i in you. Its like a spritual pregnancy, When a woman is PREGNANT SHE HAS THE SUBSTANCE OF THINGS HOPED FOR THE EVIDENCE OF THINGS NOT SEEN, In our case the Child is the H.G. AS Jesus said that which is born of the spirit is Spirit thats the Promise Child the H.G. IMMANUEL God with US . Remember it was Davids 2 nd child with Bathsheba, Solomon, that brought in the great Temple the KINGDOM . I SAW THE 2 ND CHILD . GBU

In 1 Peter 3:18-20, we see the mention of what you're seeking after. This passage speaks about Jesus suffering & dying for us but by the power of the Spirit, He was made alive & in the self-same Spirit He "went & preached unto the spirits (those from the days of Noah being held captive) in prison (held in chains in Hell)".

We can't identify a particular time that Jesus, by His Spirit, did this. Many understand it to be after he rose from the grave & went & declared His victory over sin & death, but the Scripture in question doesn't clearly indicate this. One could then ask: why did Jesus do this at this particular time & not at any other time, or, what was the necessity of going specifically to those held captive to preach to them? I get the sense that this was done at some time after Jesus' resurrection as an announcement to them, but that is not certain as we don't get any more details of that event.