In Matthew 23:25-26 "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
The only way for Israel to cleanse out the inside of the cup is to come to Christ then the outside of them may be clean also!
Jesus told Nicodemus in John 3:5-6 "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
This is a spiritual heart transplant!
The stoney heart is removed and replaced with a heart of flesh.
A heart that is moved by the Holyspirit!
This is necessary for EVERYONE that seeks salvation.
There has to be an acknowledgement of brokenness, insufficiency and inability to right yourself.
This cause for repentance, (A turning to Christ) for Justification, Sanctification and then Glorification .
In John 6:35-37- Jesus says "I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and HIM THAT COMETH TO ME I WILL IN NO WISE CAST OUT.
(This means he will reject no-one.)
When a person comes to one for prayer, admitting he's a sinner desiring salvation, he's on the right track!
Their heart is right and a door has opened for you to deliver the good news. (The Gospel of Christ!)
That's where we all have started as we continue to be sanctified by the Spirit that dwells in us!
What is that Gospel and how might it be presented to the broken hearted?
When examining the Nature of God's Judgment and Salvation program, or any doctrine, we need to be careful not to draw conclusions from a few isolated verses. The Nature of Judgment and Salvation has remained constant throughout time. In fact the Bible in its Entirety is all about the Gospel, God's Judgment and Salvation program.
2 Timothy 3:16 " All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"
That said, here are a few verses that bear on the question:
John 6:37 "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."
John 6:44 "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."
Ephesians 1:2-6
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved."
Ezekiel 36:24-27
"For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them."
When we harmonize everything in the Bible, we learn that God does 100% of the work in saving and keeping each of His Elect. What a comfort
Many have argued about whether God has a sense of humor; I would venture to say that it is very helpful in terms of ourselves when we can laugh at our own foolishness. Pride is a major barrier to growth; and learning our own weaknesses is never enjoyable.
Hebrews 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
I have commented before on the prayer I am afraid to say; namely asking God to do His job to chastise and correct. It is pretty foolproof; you can count on Him answering it and probably means people will be involved in correction; some of which are in church; others in the world and no doubt the enemy will be allowed to target a few choice arrows your way. Having a bullseye on your back ain't fun but we have to get over having special status; our Lord and Master suffered and surely His servants likewise.
Not this concept certainly isn't going to win any converts who are just interested in lip service; unless they have a self destructive bent. The world can't be expected to get it; no doubt they default to wanting to be left alone to do their thing.
Knowing Christ rather than about Him is key. Our transformation in the mind and soul is revolutionary. To truly be saved IS to be dead to sin; yet we still have that capacity as we can't say we are without sin. The regenerate heart is truly born again and a new creature. The scripture is opened up as our soul testifies to the truth ( Romans 8:16); and of course we are "all taught by God" ( John 6:45). This love is transformative; or Agape. One HUGE fallacy today is that we somehow are taught to believe that being loving enough somehow aids to such a transformation. That is a partial truth; IF the Spirit is working on someone that is the case; and we certainly have no business not being loving; but even grumpy people He can use.
Hi Giannis. As concerning Jesus, the apostle states it well in Colossians 1:15, "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature". Jesus, as Man, was the exact representation of the invisible God. Certainly his outward features would not have identified Him with His Father, for who has seen God Who is Spirit? Even in his boyhood or youth, Jesus would probably have been like any other child born into a Jewish family of that region, even as the Jews could only acknowledge His lineage ( John 6:42). Only after His Words were spoken, His Power witnessed, and His Holy Life observed, then some were able to perceive that this was no ordinary Man but One Who was truly sent by God, with Divine qualities & wisdom.
Could anyone today say, just by walking past you or me, looking at us, that these men belong to Christ & exude His Graces? Personally, I couldn't see that being the case if I was called upon to differentiate a believer from a non-believer. I would need to know more, to observe more, and hear more to believe that this person before me has Christ or His Father in him. Though having said that, I could relate another account, of my time in Pakistan. One young (21ish) Pakistani brother in Christ on my team of young evangelists, had an uncanny perception of others as he passed by them. On more than one occasion, I asked him to prove how he could tell whether a person was a believer or not. And in all of them, he was correct. And he confirmed this by then walking up to them, engaging in conversation and checking their spiritual state. This brother could just by looking at the face (for in every other way, the person appeared like any other) and could correctly say whether he was a believer. I don't have that ability, but maybe that account supports your thoughts of whether 'we look like our Father and Savior' to others, those whom we do not know. Is there something of our appearance or demeanor that reflects a life hidden in Christ?
It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. ( John 6:45).
( 1 John 2:23) states: Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
Both these verses show that in reality; all those who are "true Israel" ( Romans 9:6) are those who are believers in God's only Son being the true Messiah. There are several things we can learn from this; the first and most obvious being that we can't separate the Godhead or choose to accept either the Old or New Testament by themselves as they are interchangeable and inextricably connected to the same Source. This situation is highlighted with those who don't like the behavior of God the Father in the O.T.; who create a god in their own imagination who only consists of the loving sounding verses Jesus spoke.
Of course this takes some cherry picking and wholesale bypass of say; an entire chapter dedicated to calling out the hypocrisy of the Pharisees; for example.
Another issue here is to conclude that God of the O.T. was only concerned with the law and judgment; and in the New Testament it is all about grace. This probably is easiest to come up with when we look at the Sermon on the Mount and diminish it to moral platitudes or somehow divorce the meaning from the Old Testament. When we look at almost all of the O.T.; there was a repeated and unavoidable meaning in the text of God's mercy or wrath in regard to blessings and cursings. The emphasis of the law can only be gleaned from the earlier books of the Pantateuch; we certainly see prophetic statements about Christ and His coming mission to Gentiles as well as Jews; as well as God being weary of the pomp and circumstance of Israel's offerings when they were caught up in adulterous and idolatrous behaviors. GOd spoke of a place of prayer for all nations ( Isaiah 56:7) as the ultimate Temple meaning.
c. Romans 9:19-33. Here begins Paul's introduction of the Jews (& Gentiles) salvation. The same God Who has Power to make and use some people for honorable use and others for baser use, can also be justified in sending "vessels of His wrath" to destruction. Why are they 'vessels of wrath'? Because God endured with much patience for their repentance (v22); that they refused Him, they then were judged as fit for hell. If God had already appointed (elected) some to Heaven and some to Hell, there is absolutely no need for any "longsuffering" by God, because their destinies are certain as appointed by God. But God waits for all to turn to Him - and this is the anguish of both the heart of God and the apostle here.
That said, how then does a sinner respond to this Gospel of Salvation, or does he not respond, since that means he has contributed in some way to God's Gift? I agree, we are indeed children of wrath, lost & debased as wretched sinners without hope. And I believe that it can only be God by His Spirit, Who can draw a sinner to Christ and His Cross ( John 6:44). Is this sinner who is being drawn, one of the elect foreordained by God to salvation, or is the sinner any person who is under concern and conviction now being drawn to the Cross? Someone could say, referring to my last clause, that if a sinner is concerned/convicted then he is contributing to God's salvation. Likewise, if a convicted sinner receives Christ as His Savior, he is somehow adding to his salvation. I don't believe that one is doing anything of the sort. Responding to God for the burden of sin being lifted and being given new life and hope doesn't add an iota to God's Work of Salvation. If a parent gives a gift to his child and the child responds with gratitude and joy, the gift still remains a gift with no demands or encumbrances. But if that child has to do some house chores to get that gift, then yes, it is no longer a gift but a payment. Onto Page 3.
Dear friend Pastortim2017. On my journey with Jesus these comparable things have emerged. The human brain is a somewhat complicated thing. And it is serious for the person concerned. But when your friend came to Jesus he was free, right? The scripture says that we are to remain in the light. Then everyday life comes and oops we are back. You know we have an enemy. And when I look at myself and learn from it. It seems that an old habit simply becomes that, because we let it. That is to say. We must resist, that action, preferably proclaim the name of Jesus. I have no faith that without Jesus' sacrificial blood on Calvary, little happens. We must therefore resist, in His name. We often get preoccupied with other things that pull us away from our new idea. And unfortunately, it can happen completely automatically, it's true. Think about it, how many times have you yourself been hindered from and make a fast for the Lord. To my delight, sometimes you even get visits from people you haven't seen in 10 years. They are hungry. I believe these things also go into it and do His will. For what is God's will if not what we see daily? Joh 6:29 It is the same for everyone. But then we have our own to struggle with. What I have found out is that clearly nothing happens until the person HAS made up his mind. And in Jesus' Name above all other names, (there is a need for understanding, we grow the growth that is from God). Our thoughts keep us in old patterns. The best thing for him is to put the whip away in the evening and be determined. And the morning after, go to a meeting or visit you, for example. Then he can be busy with something else for a few hours. And then afterwards he has to resist, that's where it's critical. Is it possible and do it, be determined and persevere in Jesus' Name. After a few hours it will be forgotten. Just sat and thought about it over the scripture where Jesus walks on the water. John 6:15-21
Immediately they were on land! Wonderful Jesus, love u
Hello Lbooth1955. I'll share some Scriptures that show that a true believer, baptized with the Holy Spirit, has been fully redeemed and adopted into the family of God. He can never be un-adopted, nor will he ever desire to depart from his most Holy Faith - for it is not in him to ever to do so, having been forgiven from the weight of sin having no salvation in any other, than Jesus, the Son of God. Sure, there are also as many Scriptures that purportedly show that a believer can lose his salvation, so the matter comes down to: if a 'believer' can decide to shun Christ and His Salvation, he probably came to Christ under his own desire, without the drawing in of the Holy Spirit and the resulting conviction of sin. Anyone who comes to Jesus without a deep sense of being a filthy despicable sinner deserving of nothing but hell and not fleeing to the Cross for forgiveness, cleansing & redemption, has just been fooling himself and very likely attending Church and reading the Bible for reasons other than a deep love, devotion and commitment to living and serving His Lord. That being said, I submit the following few Scriptures as requested (with notes):
John 3:16: God's Promise to save all who come to Him, assuring them of everlasting life.
John 5:24: The one believing in Jesus has everlasting life, without any condemnation or hell.
John 6:37: God makes no mistakes about whom He gives to His Son, and Jesus promises to never let them go.
John 10:27-29: Christ's sheep always hear His Voice and follow Him. Nothing nor anyone can separate the sheep from the Shepherd. If they stray, the Shepherd will draw them back into the fold, for that is the job of the Shepherd.
Romans 8:38,39: if all these things cannot separate us from God's Love in & through His Son, then what is our strength or ability (or even any inclination) to do the job ourselves? To Page 2.
The Old Testament repeatedly promised Israel a literal, earthly kingdom ruled by Messiah from Jerusalem. God covenanted to give Abraham's seed the land forever ( Gen. 13:14-15; 17:8) and swore to David an eternal throne ( 2 Sam. 7:12-16; Ps. 89:3-4). Prophets like Isaiah, Daniel, and Zechariah described worldwide peace, justice, and worship centered in Jerusalem ( Isa. 2:2-4; 9:6-7; Dan. 2:44; Zech. 14:9,16-17). The Jewish expectation was simple: Messiah would come once, overthrow Gentile powers, restore Israel, and rule immediately-no concept of a second coming or a rapture.
When Jesus came, this expectation shaped all responses. John the Baptist and Jesus proclaimed, "The kingdom of heaven is at hand" ( Matt. 3:2; 4:17). Crowds hailed "the kingdom of our father David" ( Mark 11:10) and tried to make Him king ( John 6:15). Many "thought that the kingdom should immediately appear" ( Luke 19:11). The disciples expected thrones and rulership ( Matt. 19:28; Luke 22:29-30) and even after the resurrection asked, "Wilt thou restore again the kingdom to Israel?" ( Acts 1:6).
The crucifixion brought deep confusion-"We trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel" ( Luke 24:21). Even hearing of His death puzzled them ( John 12:34), since prophecy spoke of Messiah's eternal reign, not His suffering first.
Israel's rejection of Messiah delayed the kingdom. God then revealed through Paul the hidden "mystery" ( Eph. 3:1-9): Jew and Gentile in one Body, a heavenly people awaiting the rapture ( 1 Thess. 4:13-18). The promised earthly kingdom will still come-but only at Christ's second coming ( Rev. 19-20), after the Church is removed and Israel's prophetic program resumes.
Another aspect of the eternal purpose of God is that the Father, in love, gave to Jesus a people who Jesus' redeems and reconciles to the Godhead.
In truth God, by the will and decree of the Father, is pursuing with omnipotent delight a worldwide purpose of gathering a people for his name, which is Jesus, from every tribe and language and nation ( Revelation 5:9; 7:9). He has an inexhaustible enthusiasm for the fame of his Son among the nations.
1Peter 2:9-10
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
The ones who are given to the Son are the believers since they will come to Christ ( John 6:37), that Jesus will lose none of them ( John 6:39), will not be snatched out of Christ's hand ( John 10:29), will have eternal life ( John 17:2), and will be with Christ ( John 17:24). Therefore, we must conclude that the ones given to the Son are the Christians, the elect. They are the ones chosen for salvation ( 2 Thess. 2:13) and it is those whom Jesus came to redeem. Furthermore, since Jesus cannot fail to do the will of the Father, those who are given to the Son by the Father cannot be lost. Otherwise, Jesus will have failed to do the will of the Father.
The Father sent His Son, the Word, into the world in human flesh, to save, redeem (as a kinsman redeemer), and glorify a people chosen from humanity to the praise of the glory and grace of God in Christ. The Father calls Jesus His Beloved Son audibly in several places in the gospels. The Father, in love, decreed that all that would be done to accomplish His eternal purpose would be accomplished by the son, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit within time and history, even into eternity.
We are not far apart. First, to answer your question, will I walk away? The answer is NO! I know Romans 1:28 didn't fit, but it reflects what I was thinking of someone I knew when I wrote it. Only God knows the heart of man. What was in my mind was a person I knew, and anyone who knew them would say this person was a true Christian.
This person lost a child, and they completely changed. Over time, they turned into the opposite of who they were, and this verse fits what I saw happen to this person. This is one of the reasons I believe someone can fall away; only God knows if that is what happened. John 6:44, we may see this as the gospel today, the words of God are preached, which draws people, but that is not coming to Christ himself.
Then we have Matthew 22:14: Many are called, but few are chosen. Some who hear will fully embrace it and be accepted by God, while others will not. We are drawn or called, but is it not up to us to go and believe?
How do we understand verses like Hebrews 3:12-14? This is directed at those in Christ. 1 Timothy 4:1-2, My understanding, this goes with 2 Thessalonians 2:3 and Revelation 13:7-10; here is the patience of the saints. This is a true falling away, John 1.5:4-6; we must continue to abide in Him. Romans 11:19-22, we can be cut off.
James 1:12 is another blessed is a man that endureth, if he does, he will receive a crown of life. As in Revelation 2:10, faithful unto death. I respect you, but to me, there are too many warnings to endure and overcome until our death. We cannot ignore that; we must encourage each other to stay strong in our faith.
Not to spark another debate, I believe the great falling away is connected to when the beast rises and the persecution begins. Many think they will be taken out, but are not; they will be here. My understanding is Christ will never forsake us; the only thing that can separate us from Him is us.
I'm not sure that we differ much in our understanding of the word HUPOMENO. Patience, endurance, and perseverance can be attached to this word. The word HUPO means under, and MENO means remain. So, we are to remain under our circumstances, and we are to endure hardships and whatever else is thrown at us. The word HUPOMENO expresses a remaining under or an endurance in circumstances.
As I mentioned previously, a person who is born of God's Spirit will endure to the end. God's Spirit gives us the ability to remain under and endure. His Spirit gives us the ability to persevere. Without His Spirit, we would never endure or persevere to the end because without His Spirit, all it leaves us with is this body of flesh which will never submit to Christ.
To your first question asking, "Is our salvation initiated by our choice to believe, John 3:16, free will?" Biblically speaking, the salvation process is initiated by God the Father. Jesus said, in John 6:44, "No one is able to come to me, unless the Father who has sent me should draw him; and I will raise him up in the last day."
Consequently, if the Father does not draw a person to Christ, that person cannot be saved. It is only after the Father draws a person to Christ, and they surrender their life to Him, that the Spirit of Christ enters into the spirit of that person and a spiritual birth takes place. So, it is God that initiates salvation, it is God that saves, and it is God that keeps a person saved. We can't keep ourselves saved.
"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."
Please follow me through this thought experiment, comments appreciated.....
As Christians, we often refer to Matthew 21:21 and the casting of the mountain into the sea when talking of faith. In this context, the the mountain in question is a problem or obstacle in our lives. But what is Jesus Himself were the mountain Psalm 118:22 which we all at times "cast off." It's only after we find ourselves drowning in the depths of despair Psalm 71:20 that we meet with Him again Psalm 138:8 right where we placed Him. Micah 7:19 Only this time, He appears more glorious than ever, John 6:29 for we see Him from a different perspective, just as He intended. Matthew 13:13-17 And when we see Him as He is, we shall be changed and we shall be like Him. 1 John 3:2
Here we see the Parable of the Two Sons (v. 28-32) and the Parable of the Tenants (v. 33-41) followed by further warnings of Christ of the Kingdom of God. Verse 42 contains a quote from Psalm 118 showing that He was indeed the stone which they had rejected after they affirmed in the second parable what should be done to the wicked tenants when the owner comes back.
It appears from my limited study that John has the most references to attempts to kill Christ; although some manuscripts eliminate the last verse in Matthew 21 no doubt there was constant desire to go after the Lord whether to arrest Him or kill Him on the spot. They were concerned about the reaction of the crowd for the obvious fact that miracles couldn't be denied. NO one ever cast any doubt on the veracity of the miracles; but they did as to who He was and His credentials such as denying His virgin birth ( John 8:41); and he being merely the son of Joseph and Mary in John 6:42. Which was it the real or illegitimate son? They couldn't accept the virgin birth which means the testimony of Mary and Joseph was taken to be false in that regard.
They knew that no one had ever healed the blind even with the resurrection recorded in the book of Kings of the widow's son. ( 1 Kings 17; John 9:32).
Reading Isaiah 53 shows a graphic picture of Christ and His sufferings at the cross along with other passages in that book and other prophecies such as Psalm 22 in particular. Which is more of a miracle God in all His glory creating the heavens and the earth and sustaining the universe or condescending to take human form to be the propitiation for our sins? ( 1 John 2:2). Which displays His Divine attributes most clearly? In truth; both aspects need to be emphasized lest we consider Him to be anything less than God or insufficient to come in our place to make an atonement for all of the sins of His children. First He had to live as one of us in order to die in our place ( 1 Cor. 15
Hallo dear "Janathome2" Il see that you have answer to your question. And as a reminder, please dont forget the Passover lambs and the feast of uleavended bread. Described in Exodus 12 1-28. And never forget that Israel ppl is Gods Selected people from the beginning. I belive that some Israel people still have this law. Becouse some of them dont see Jesus yet, unfortunately. And Israel to be saved Rom 11:26 and pray for peace over Jerusalem, Sal 122:6-9. This task is for us who belive in Jesus to do everyday.
And we cant just take one word and live by it, The Bible is too complex and needs study. And for my part it seems like many ppl jumps in and out of legal actions. Which turn to confusion. Becouse we have a twisted enemy who will do everything which can destroy Gods selected ppl, saved or not. Evan those ppl that God not have dragged to Him yet. John 6:44. Thats why we need to pray for all ppl on the planet.
Stay close to the word and never loose hope, evan sometimes everything is dark. Mat 26:17-19
Belive in Jesus Christ. Love you all in Jesus name. Happy Easter!
Revelation 13:7-8 is saying that all who dwell upon the earth will worship (the Beast) not God, for they are all those whose names are not written in the Book of Life. Perhaps this is not what you meant to convey.
Later I will go through those verses in this part on the topic you highlight.
I am so glad that God will supply for us in Christ through the Holy Spirit the power to endure to the end and cause us to persevere in faith throughout our life. We, ourselves would not be able to do this. Our salvation is of God from start to finish! Praise the Lord!
Let us pray that we come to unity of faith with sound doctrine taught in Scripture concerning all matters of our God, our salvation, our future. I remember reading that we have eternal life now and in the future. Let me pull up that verse.
John 5:24
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."
John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live"
John 6:47
"Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life."
Eternal life is both a present and future possession of believers. How amazing and comforting that is. We who are in Christ are already raised to life while alive now, but will also be resurrected bodily at Jesus' return to have our salvation become complete and eternal.
Thanks for posting this series on the Last Supper Discourse.
In Part 2 you said several ideas that I don't find supported by the text or the teachings of Scripture concerning Jesus Christ.
In the passage that speaks of "giving eternal life" it states that Jesus was given power and authority by the Father AND that "he" (Jesus) gives eternal life. It is true that it is God who gives eternal life, but Scripture states clearly that both the Father and the Son, Jesus Christ give eternal life --- John 10:28; 1 John 5:11-13; 20; John 6:27, 54; 1 John 1:2.
John 17:2
"even as You (the Father) gave Him (Jesus, the Son)authority over all flesh, that to all whom You (the Father) have given Him (Jesus), He (Jesus)may give eternal life."
When we look at the truth of this verse it clearly states that Jesus give eternal life to all the Father gives Him.
To say of this verse that it is the Father who gives life is not exegeting this verse properly and it diminishes the deity of Jesus.
Also, you state that it was through the Holy Spirit that Jesus knew the Father's will and what to say. But this is not what Scriptures say. In John 14:31 it says that Jesus does all that the Father commands Him (Jesus) to do. No mention of the Holy Spirit here. John 5:19 says that Jesus does all that He sees the Father do. So He knows what the Father's will is and what God is says and does through His own divinity and not through the Holy Spirit.
In His human nature, Jesus relied on the Holy Spirit to be obedient to the Father, but His divinity, being unified with the Father and the Holy Spirit, knew all the will of God, all that the Father does, all that the Father says.
John 10:15 says that "even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep."
To speak as though Jesus needed the Holy Spirit to know what He was to do or say denies His divinity and oneness with the Father. See part 2
Mark 10:45 talks about Christ coming not to be served but to serve and giving His life as a ransom for many. This is also quoted in Matthew 20:28 and Mark 10:45. This theme again is played out through His preaching to the masses as we saw in the last posting; or to His Disciples. Service goes beyond Him being a "Cosmic Vending Machine" however ( John 6:26). What people needed was salvation of their souls resulting from forgiveness of sins; and He would emphasize this when performing His miracles even though His own life was threatened. He knew of course that He couldn't be touched until His time had come; and while He was on the earth His 12 Disciples also were protected; which we see when the soldiers came to arrest Him in Gethsemene. He was there to rebuke Peter when necessary and even offered what was considered the choice sop to Judas Iscariot before His betrayal. Unlike us as mortal men Jesus had us on His mind even facing death on a cross the next day; praying for all those who would come to Him eventually being as one; and as I mentioned before for Mary his mother to have John look after her as a mother showing that Joseph was almost certainly deceased at this time. He even reached out to the repentant criminal on the cross next to Him when dying assuring he would be with Him in paradise. Luke 23:34 is the ultimate forgiveness to those who didn't know what they were doing.
Part of service and having others as a priority over our own needs is taking time out for prayer. Jesus prayed all night before picking His 12 Disciples and this wasn't the only time He did this. Communicating with His Father in heaven was a constant ongoing process as He only said what the Father told Him ( John 12:49 etal). Service therefore for the Christian must involve a commitment of time not only for prayer for others but for ourselves; He may have been restricted while on earth to live as one of us but prayed to focus on God how much more should we seek Him?
In one sense Christ was different than everyone else in His humanity. His thoughts and life were pure yet certainly the enemy likely put thoughts of sins in his mind common to man such as lust; hating his enemies; etc. Being the Son of God Satan couldn't accuse Him of anything done wrong; and also had unique temptations as we see when Jesus was led into the wilderness to fast for 40 days. Making stones into bread isn't something anyone can do as a mere man. Throwing Himself down in a suicidal move wasn't going to fly and neither was worshipping Satan. The enemy may offer these things from time to time but only will succeed with Antichrist in the future.
Regarding my last post the Messiah WAS according to the Prophets supposed to come to rule and subdue the nations of the world but that was in the Second Coming; the first was as the suffering servant prophesied in Isaiah 51; hence Isaiah 61 was cut short in His temple proclamation ( Luke 4:16-30). Thus everything according to man's understanding was backwards. Jesus did not come:
As from a regal or wealthy family of notoriety although fulfilled the prophecies as being a descendant of David
To show off His Divinity by signs; wonders and miracles as brought out by the faithlessness of His own hometown ( Mark 6:4).
To allow Himself to be made King by force (as shown in a verse quoted earlier ( John 6:15).
To escape persecution; or to die a peaceful honorable death.
These things bring out what the world's standards are for the "Perfect Man" and who the truly perfect man was. Being considered a pathetic low life is what made Monty Python's sarcastic and disgraceful skit about the Crucifixion as "entertainment" in "Always look at the Bright Side of Life" means. In the next post I will examine further what the world is looking for (soon to be fulfilled in Antichrist); as their superhuman hero to save the planet.
Christ was also referred to as the 2nd Adam ( 1 Cor. 15:45; also seen in Romans 5). Hence Adam was designed in the image of God but because of his sin it affected all his offspring therefore we inherited his sin nature during conception ( Psalm 51:5). Men at that time when Christ lived on the earth expected the Messiah to come to earth and vanquish them of their enemies; hence tried to make him king ( John 6:15). His reaction was to go to withdraw Himself to the mountains (likely to pray).
A cursory examination of the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 5 shows statements that at first seem to contradict the law; or at the very least make the ramifications more severe for our thoughts about things that may or may not become actions. This was illustrated with lusting after a woman being adultery in the heart; and more stringent laws on putting away one's wife. This explanation was brought out further in Matthew 19:8 with the Pharisees on the subject as to the concepts tied in with Deuteronomy 24. This shows that Christ was; as a member of the Godhead able to define and even change what was considered the law to make it more perfect as no one before Him ever was able to live out a sinless life following the law perfectly. Ultimately certain ceremonial laws were brought to an end as seen in Acts 10:15; but alluded to in Mark 7:18-19.
Hence the method of rituals related to the animal sacrifices also was to be ended with the New Covenant. Overall we can say the 10 Commandments as a moral law remain as a universal statute; although the mandatory 7th day of rest only given for Israel and its occupants has been replaced with Sunday as a day of rest although Colossians 2:16-17 says we should avoid disputes over Sabbath Days and I would add Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath ( Matthew 12:8). I am not here to get into a debate over that issue.
To have the law in our hearts was a future promise that Christ demonstrates ( Jeremiah 31:16-18).
The modern Turks are also different from their ancestors. Nowadays thousands of us go there and thousands of them come here just for travelling and holidays, mainly summer holidays. They are described as nice, warm people with a very strong feeling of hospitality but a bit fanatics about their religion and nation. I sometimes pray that God opens their eyes to see the truth. There also many christian congregations there.
Well these are some details from me. Thanks for your posts brother, I enjoyed them, but aso left me sad about me not doing something similar. But everybody has to go according to their gift from God and the measure of faith He has given to anyone. But we need people to go all over the world to spread the gospel. Here we pray to God to rise people like the apostles, strong not only in speech but in power as well. Jesus was telling to the Jews that "I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me." ( John 8:18). How? "... for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me." ( John 6:36). if the ancient people who were easy to believe in myths had to see miracles to believe and we see how the gospel was spread to the world in those early ages through miracles and signs, how about modern people who are proud of their knowledge about everything? Not much will be done if God doesn't recomment His people. We desperately need God's actions. And we have messages from God that it will not go much more before He will act as in the ancient church. I want to believe that this is not the desire of our hearts and our imagination but true messages from God. I pray that God lights a fire in every nation on earth.
Lastly brother, you haven't tired me at all, on the contrary I was expecting more. it is like you are eating a nice meal and keep wanting more and more. Maybe some time you will tell us about your missions in India.
Since Scripture is clear that Jesus, the Messiah, did exist prior to His conception, then the next question would be:
What was His existence from all eternity past (as Micah 5:2) states comprised of? Luke 1:26, 38 identify Jesus as the Messiah spoken of in this Micah passage.
Unitarians believe like Ronald Whittmore: that Jesus existed as an idea or plan in the mind of God. I have yet to find this teaching anywhere in Scripture that He existed as God with the Father ( John 1:1-3; John 12:41(Is. 6:5).
John 6:46 that Jesus came from the Father and has seen the Father. An idea or plan does not see. And an idea or plan is not God as John so plainly teaches.
Jesus said that before Abraham was, I Am. in John 8:56-58, using the term "I Am" as YHWH did to Moses in Exodus 3, which means, "I exist because I exist", or "I ever exist" or "I am self-existent".
Scripture clearly teaches ( Jn. 1:1-3, Phil 1:5-8) state that Jesus (The Word who became flesh- John 1:14) existed as God prior to becoming human. This indicates that He was clearly not an idea or a plan but a real divine person in relationship with the Father, another divine person. But we also know that there is only one being that is God. Being a distinct person of the Godhead is a different category that the Being of God, not a different God, but a distinction within the one Divine Being.
In Hebrews 1 Jesus is spoken of as the begotten Son of the Father that the Father brought into the world (in the flesh) but He existed as the Son of the Father eternally before He was conceived. In John 1:8, Psalm 45:6-7 is quoted and attributed to the Father speaking to the Son, "Thy throne, O GOD; is forever and ever." The Father is calling the Son God!
John 17:5 has Jesus asking the Father to restore to Himself (Jesus) the glory that He shared with the Father prior to His (Jesus) humbling Himself to become human as well as retaining His Deity.
I have been considering your questions and praying how I can respond to help you. First of all, I will say that you can receive thoughtful responses on this forum. You can also find good answers to these two questions by searching the internet with these questions. The responses there may be as good if not better than what I or others have done so here on this forum. Not all internet sources are equally sound from a biblical perspective just as not all responses to your questions here are such. I would recommend the Got Question site as a start. They give a fairly concise explanation to your questions.
As I was thinking on your questions, I came to these responses:
1) Does Scripture speak of Jesus existing prior to His conception in Mary?
The first Scripture I will cite is John chapter 1. It does tell us that Jesus is the Word of God, who also is God, who was with God from the beginning. Jesus is said by John to have created all that has been created. And that the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.
John 8:56: Jesus says that He existed before Abraham existed. He used the term "I AM" in this verse which is a specific reference to the name God gave to Moses in Exodus 3, which means "I self-exist" or "I exist because I exist".
In many verses Jesus states that He came from heaven to earth, from the Father, being sent from the Father, that He is from above. The Gospel of John is replete with verses that state this.
John 8:23; John 1:18; John 3:1,17; John 6:38; John 17:21; John 3:34; John 18:36; John 1:15; John 3:12-13, 31-36; John 16: 27-28.
John 12:41refers back to Isaiah 6:5 where Isaiah saw the LORD seated on the throne and all the angels said "Holy, Holy, Holy".
John here says that Isaiah saw the glory of Jesus on the throne because he was speaking of Jesus is verses 37-40.
The New Testament states explicitly in many places that Jesus is the Christ (Jewish Messiah). In Micah 5:2 states that the Messiah existed for all eternity past.
As a man, yea as a Son, Jesus now talks to & prays to His Father in Heaven. He also said that He came to only do His Father's Will ( John 6:38), so in every respect, Jesus laid aside His Glory that He enjoyed with & in God, & as a Man waited upon His Father continually.
To the natural mind, how could Jesus be God & then be found praying to & worshiping Him? My answer is that Jesus laid aside that Glory & Position to become a Man, a Man Who came to be sacrificed ( John 12:27), and now a Son, subservient to His Father in all things. So how does God then become a Son? That is why God reveals Himself to us as Father, Son & Holy Spirit - if one aspect of His Nature is removed, I believe that God ceases to be God. Just as if our spirit or soul or body is removed or put to death, we instantly cease to be the person that was once born into the world. God exists as a Tripartite God - He can't exist as any other - that is Who He is (as revealed to us). For our sakes, God chose to take that part of Himself & give it flesh (what we otherwise understand as and called, His Word). This act doesn't render God speechless or in any way deficient in knowledge, for His Word is still active in Christ & by His Spirit. And He has given us His Word (both in Christ & the written Word) & His Spirit, thus causing us to truly become new creatures, alive in Jesus & to be lovingly called, the children of the Most High. What a great privilege - what an undeserved position we have been granted, as those already seated in the heavenlies, IN CHRIST ( Ephesians 2:4-7). And that is how our Father sees us & receives us - His blood-bought, His special children, His Spirit-sealed, forever His - because of His Work alone to ransom us. Onto Page 5.
!DLHENRI, still praying for you and your son. Take a minute and look up Les Feldick on YouTube. He teaches how to study the Bible and also prayer. Les also went through stuff with his daughter. God always knows what's going on. God hears you and will help you, but you need to search him out and hear his Words.
The word of God is Spirit and is alive. No man can understand God unless they understand the word in Spirit.
John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Ephesians 6:17
And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of theSpirit, whichisthewordof God:
Jesus Christ is the Word of God.
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Romans 10:17
Sothen faith cometh byhearing, andhearing bythewordof God.
Ephesians 2:8
Forbygrace are ye saved throughfaith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
John 6:63 says that the flesh profits nothing; the Spirit is where the focus should be. My point with communion is that the Spirit although invisible works as a "two edged sword" ( Hebrews 4:12). Therefore the importance is just as great as if something was physically changed into the body and blood of Christ. We may look at this like when Jesus forgave sins and asked which was harder; healing or forgiving sins? Clearly the latter because in the material world healing is somewhat a natural phenomenon; whereas there is no method for forgiveness of sins without the perfect Atonement; certainly not our own "good works" which are as Isaiah indicates "filthy rags" in His sight.
I argue that whether it is Baptism; Communion or "fellowship of the saints" when two or more are gathered together He is present; and of course as Revelation 1 and 2 seem to show sometimes it is only a few individuals who are walking correctly; and of course if we can't reach the lukewarm through admonition we should flee the lukewarm church that He will "spue out of His mouth as with the Laodiceans.
We do well to study what it means to be taking communion "unworthily". Certainly unconfessed sin comes to mind but it may be easy to overlook forgiving one's brother first as Jesus said we should do before going to the altar. Certainly this affects communion as well as we are part of the Body of Christ and any schisms hurt us and others as well.
We could also look at what made Christ's body and blood unique. He was born based on the Spirit basically being the "seed" that allowed for a virgin birth. If we consider what makes Him different we can look at a perfect "DNA" and such; but the spiritual perfection vs imperfection is beyond just the symptom of physical decay and death; it is being sinless vs sinful; inherited sin can't be explained readily. Also he bears the scars; certainly not the suffering eternally. This is what makes the "stigmata" of occultic origin only Christ atones.
I will not comment on John 6:60-65. It is obvious there that Jesus speaks figuratively ( although there are other opinions). But does He also speak figuratively when he had the last supper with His disciples and gave them His Blood and Flesh.
Paul says to Corinthians that if someone eats His flesh and drinks His blood having a sin then they get damned. How is it possible that an emblem causes harm? It doesn't seem logical. But if they are indeed His Blood and Flesh then it makes sense Because holy things get inside a sinful body. It is like in the OT when a priest was to enter the Holy of Holies being uncleaned. He was in danger of falling dead. I don't believe in transubstantiation but the bread and wine become Flesh and Blood of Jesus "by faith".
In Matthew 23:25-26 "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
The only way for Israel to cleanse out the inside of the cup is to come to Christ then the outside of them may be clean also!
Jesus told Nicodemus in John 3:5-6 "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
This is a spiritual heart transplant!
The stoney heart is removed and replaced with a heart of flesh.
A heart that is moved by the Holyspirit!
This is necessary for EVERYONE that seeks salvation.
There has to be an acknowledgement of brokenness, insufficiency and inability to right yourself.
This cause for repentance, (A turning to Christ) for Justification, Sanctification and then Glorification .
In John 6:35-37- Jesus says "I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and HIM THAT COMETH TO ME I WILL IN NO WISE CAST OUT.
(This means he will reject no-one.)
When a person comes to one for prayer, admitting he's a sinner desiring salvation, he's on the right track!
Their heart is right and a door has opened for you to deliver the good news. (The Gospel of Christ!)
That's where we all have started as we continue to be sanctified by the Spirit that dwells in us!
What is that Gospel and how might it be presented to the broken hearted?
Blessings
2 Timothy 3:16 " All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"
That said, here are a few verses that bear on the question:
John 6:37 "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."
John 6:44 "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."
Ephesians 1:2-6
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved."
Ezekiel 36:24-27
"For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them."
When we harmonize everything in the Bible, we learn that God does 100% of the work in saving and keeping each of His Elect. What a comfort
Many have argued about whether God has a sense of humor; I would venture to say that it is very helpful in terms of ourselves when we can laugh at our own foolishness. Pride is a major barrier to growth; and learning our own weaknesses is never enjoyable.
Hebrews 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
I have commented before on the prayer I am afraid to say; namely asking God to do His job to chastise and correct. It is pretty foolproof; you can count on Him answering it and probably means people will be involved in correction; some of which are in church; others in the world and no doubt the enemy will be allowed to target a few choice arrows your way. Having a bullseye on your back ain't fun but we have to get over having special status; our Lord and Master suffered and surely His servants likewise.
Not this concept certainly isn't going to win any converts who are just interested in lip service; unless they have a self destructive bent. The world can't be expected to get it; no doubt they default to wanting to be left alone to do their thing.
Knowing Christ rather than about Him is key. Our transformation in the mind and soul is revolutionary. To truly be saved IS to be dead to sin; yet we still have that capacity as we can't say we are without sin. The regenerate heart is truly born again and a new creature. The scripture is opened up as our soul testifies to the truth ( Romans 8:16); and of course we are "all taught by God" ( John 6:45). This love is transformative; or Agape. One HUGE fallacy today is that we somehow are taught to believe that being loving enough somehow aids to such a transformation. That is a partial truth; IF the Spirit is working on someone that is the case; and we certainly have no business not being loving; but even grumpy people He can use.
Could anyone today say, just by walking past you or me, looking at us, that these men belong to Christ & exude His Graces? Personally, I couldn't see that being the case if I was called upon to differentiate a believer from a non-believer. I would need to know more, to observe more, and hear more to believe that this person before me has Christ or His Father in him. Though having said that, I could relate another account, of my time in Pakistan. One young (21ish) Pakistani brother in Christ on my team of young evangelists, had an uncanny perception of others as he passed by them. On more than one occasion, I asked him to prove how he could tell whether a person was a believer or not. And in all of them, he was correct. And he confirmed this by then walking up to them, engaging in conversation and checking their spiritual state. This brother could just by looking at the face (for in every other way, the person appeared like any other) and could correctly say whether he was a believer. I don't have that ability, but maybe that account supports your thoughts of whether 'we look like our Father and Savior' to others, those whom we do not know. Is there something of our appearance or demeanor that reflects a life hidden in Christ?
( 1 John 2:23) states: Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
Both these verses show that in reality; all those who are "true Israel" ( Romans 9:6) are those who are believers in God's only Son being the true Messiah. There are several things we can learn from this; the first and most obvious being that we can't separate the Godhead or choose to accept either the Old or New Testament by themselves as they are interchangeable and inextricably connected to the same Source. This situation is highlighted with those who don't like the behavior of God the Father in the O.T.; who create a god in their own imagination who only consists of the loving sounding verses Jesus spoke.
Of course this takes some cherry picking and wholesale bypass of say; an entire chapter dedicated to calling out the hypocrisy of the Pharisees; for example.
Another issue here is to conclude that God of the O.T. was only concerned with the law and judgment; and in the New Testament it is all about grace. This probably is easiest to come up with when we look at the Sermon on the Mount and diminish it to moral platitudes or somehow divorce the meaning from the Old Testament. When we look at almost all of the O.T.; there was a repeated and unavoidable meaning in the text of God's mercy or wrath in regard to blessings and cursings. The emphasis of the law can only be gleaned from the earlier books of the Pantateuch; we certainly see prophetic statements about Christ and His coming mission to Gentiles as well as Jews; as well as God being weary of the pomp and circumstance of Israel's offerings when they were caught up in adulterous and idolatrous behaviors. GOd spoke of a place of prayer for all nations ( Isaiah 56:7) as the ultimate Temple meaning.
c. Romans 9:19-33. Here begins Paul's introduction of the Jews (& Gentiles) salvation. The same God Who has Power to make and use some people for honorable use and others for baser use, can also be justified in sending "vessels of His wrath" to destruction. Why are they 'vessels of wrath'? Because God endured with much patience for their repentance (v22); that they refused Him, they then were judged as fit for hell. If God had already appointed (elected) some to Heaven and some to Hell, there is absolutely no need for any "longsuffering" by God, because their destinies are certain as appointed by God. But God waits for all to turn to Him - and this is the anguish of both the heart of God and the apostle here.
That said, how then does a sinner respond to this Gospel of Salvation, or does he not respond, since that means he has contributed in some way to God's Gift? I agree, we are indeed children of wrath, lost & debased as wretched sinners without hope. And I believe that it can only be God by His Spirit, Who can draw a sinner to Christ and His Cross ( John 6:44). Is this sinner who is being drawn, one of the elect foreordained by God to salvation, or is the sinner any person who is under concern and conviction now being drawn to the Cross? Someone could say, referring to my last clause, that if a sinner is concerned/convicted then he is contributing to God's salvation. Likewise, if a convicted sinner receives Christ as His Savior, he is somehow adding to his salvation. I don't believe that one is doing anything of the sort. Responding to God for the burden of sin being lifted and being given new life and hope doesn't add an iota to God's Work of Salvation. If a parent gives a gift to his child and the child responds with gratitude and joy, the gift still remains a gift with no demands or encumbrances. But if that child has to do some house chores to get that gift, then yes, it is no longer a gift but a payment. Onto Page 3.
Immediately they were on land! Wonderful Jesus, love u
John 3:16: God's Promise to save all who come to Him, assuring them of everlasting life.
John 5:24: The one believing in Jesus has everlasting life, without any condemnation or hell.
John 6:37: God makes no mistakes about whom He gives to His Son, and Jesus promises to never let them go.
John 10:27-29: Christ's sheep always hear His Voice and follow Him. Nothing nor anyone can separate the sheep from the Shepherd. If they stray, the Shepherd will draw them back into the fold, for that is the job of the Shepherd.
Romans 8:38,39: if all these things cannot separate us from God's Love in & through His Son, then what is our strength or ability (or even any inclination) to do the job ourselves? To Page 2.
This is my understanding on the matter.
The Old Testament repeatedly promised Israel a literal, earthly kingdom ruled by Messiah from Jerusalem. God covenanted to give Abraham's seed the land forever ( Gen. 13:14-15; 17:8) and swore to David an eternal throne ( 2 Sam. 7:12-16; Ps. 89:3-4). Prophets like Isaiah, Daniel, and Zechariah described worldwide peace, justice, and worship centered in Jerusalem ( Isa. 2:2-4; 9:6-7; Dan. 2:44; Zech. 14:9,16-17). The Jewish expectation was simple: Messiah would come once, overthrow Gentile powers, restore Israel, and rule immediately-no concept of a second coming or a rapture.
When Jesus came, this expectation shaped all responses. John the Baptist and Jesus proclaimed, "The kingdom of heaven is at hand" ( Matt. 3:2; 4:17). Crowds hailed "the kingdom of our father David" ( Mark 11:10) and tried to make Him king ( John 6:15). Many "thought that the kingdom should immediately appear" ( Luke 19:11). The disciples expected thrones and rulership ( Matt. 19:28; Luke 22:29-30) and even after the resurrection asked, "Wilt thou restore again the kingdom to Israel?" ( Acts 1:6).
The crucifixion brought deep confusion-"We trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel" ( Luke 24:21). Even hearing of His death puzzled them ( John 12:34), since prophecy spoke of Messiah's eternal reign, not His suffering first.
Israel's rejection of Messiah delayed the kingdom. God then revealed through Paul the hidden "mystery" ( Eph. 3:1-9): Jew and Gentile in one Body, a heavenly people awaiting the rapture ( 1 Thess. 4:13-18). The promised earthly kingdom will still come-but only at Christ's second coming ( Rev. 19-20), after the Church is removed and Israel's prophetic program resumes.
Blessings to all.
PT. 4
Another aspect of the eternal purpose of God is that the Father, in love, gave to Jesus a people who Jesus' redeems and reconciles to the Godhead.
In truth God, by the will and decree of the Father, is pursuing with omnipotent delight a worldwide purpose of gathering a people for his name, which is Jesus, from every tribe and language and nation ( Revelation 5:9; 7:9). He has an inexhaustible enthusiasm for the fame of his Son among the nations.
1Peter 2:9-10
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
The ones who are given to the Son are the believers since they will come to Christ ( John 6:37), that Jesus will lose none of them ( John 6:39), will not be snatched out of Christ's hand ( John 10:29), will have eternal life ( John 17:2), and will be with Christ ( John 17:24). Therefore, we must conclude that the ones given to the Son are the Christians, the elect. They are the ones chosen for salvation ( 2 Thess. 2:13) and it is those whom Jesus came to redeem. Furthermore, since Jesus cannot fail to do the will of the Father, those who are given to the Son by the Father cannot be lost. Otherwise, Jesus will have failed to do the will of the Father.
The Father sent His Son, the Word, into the world in human flesh, to save, redeem (as a kinsman redeemer), and glorify a people chosen from humanity to the praise of the glory and grace of God in Christ. The Father calls Jesus His Beloved Son audibly in several places in the gospels. The Father, in love, decreed that all that would be done to accomplish His eternal purpose would be accomplished by the son, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit within time and history, even into eternity.
See Pt. 5
We are not far apart. First, to answer your question, will I walk away? The answer is NO! I know Romans 1:28 didn't fit, but it reflects what I was thinking of someone I knew when I wrote it. Only God knows the heart of man. What was in my mind was a person I knew, and anyone who knew them would say this person was a true Christian.
This person lost a child, and they completely changed. Over time, they turned into the opposite of who they were, and this verse fits what I saw happen to this person. This is one of the reasons I believe someone can fall away; only God knows if that is what happened. John 6:44, we may see this as the gospel today, the words of God are preached, which draws people, but that is not coming to Christ himself.
Then we have Matthew 22:14: Many are called, but few are chosen. Some who hear will fully embrace it and be accepted by God, while others will not. We are drawn or called, but is it not up to us to go and believe?
How do we understand verses like Hebrews 3:12-14? This is directed at those in Christ. 1 Timothy 4:1-2, My understanding, this goes with 2 Thessalonians 2:3 and Revelation 13:7-10; here is the patience of the saints. This is a true falling away, John 1.5:4-6; we must continue to abide in Him. Romans 11:19-22, we can be cut off.
James 1:12 is another blessed is a man that endureth, if he does, he will receive a crown of life. As in Revelation 2:10, faithful unto death. I respect you, but to me, there are too many warnings to endure and overcome until our death. We cannot ignore that; we must encourage each other to stay strong in our faith.
Not to spark another debate, I believe the great falling away is connected to when the beast rises and the persecution begins. Many think they will be taken out, but are not; they will be here. My understanding is Christ will never forsake us; the only thing that can separate us from Him is us.
Thanks again, brother,
God bless,
RLW
(Part 1):
I'm not sure that we differ much in our understanding of the word HUPOMENO. Patience, endurance, and perseverance can be attached to this word. The word HUPO means under, and MENO means remain. So, we are to remain under our circumstances, and we are to endure hardships and whatever else is thrown at us. The word HUPOMENO expresses a remaining under or an endurance in circumstances.
As I mentioned previously, a person who is born of God's Spirit will endure to the end. God's Spirit gives us the ability to remain under and endure. His Spirit gives us the ability to persevere. Without His Spirit, we would never endure or persevere to the end because without His Spirit, all it leaves us with is this body of flesh which will never submit to Christ.
To your first question asking, "Is our salvation initiated by our choice to believe, John 3:16, free will?" Biblically speaking, the salvation process is initiated by God the Father. Jesus said, in John 6:44, "No one is able to come to me, unless the Father who has sent me should draw him; and I will raise him up in the last day."
Consequently, if the Father does not draw a person to Christ, that person cannot be saved. It is only after the Father draws a person to Christ, and they surrender their life to Him, that the Spirit of Christ enters into the spirit of that person and a spiritual birth takes place. So, it is God that initiates salvation, it is God that saves, and it is God that keeps a person saved. We can't keep ourselves saved.
"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."
Blessings
As Christians, we often refer to Matthew 21:21 and the casting of the mountain into the sea when talking of faith. In this context, the the mountain in question is a problem or obstacle in our lives. But what is Jesus Himself were the mountain Psalm 118:22 which we all at times "cast off." It's only after we find ourselves drowning in the depths of despair Psalm 71:20 that we meet with Him again Psalm 138:8 right where we placed Him. Micah 7:19 Only this time, He appears more glorious than ever, John 6:29 for we see Him from a different perspective, just as He intended. Matthew 13:13-17 And when we see Him as He is, we shall be changed and we shall be like Him. 1 John 3:2
Here we see the Parable of the Two Sons (v. 28-32) and the Parable of the Tenants (v. 33-41) followed by further warnings of Christ of the Kingdom of God. Verse 42 contains a quote from Psalm 118 showing that He was indeed the stone which they had rejected after they affirmed in the second parable what should be done to the wicked tenants when the owner comes back.
It appears from my limited study that John has the most references to attempts to kill Christ; although some manuscripts eliminate the last verse in Matthew 21 no doubt there was constant desire to go after the Lord whether to arrest Him or kill Him on the spot. They were concerned about the reaction of the crowd for the obvious fact that miracles couldn't be denied. NO one ever cast any doubt on the veracity of the miracles; but they did as to who He was and His credentials such as denying His virgin birth ( John 8:41); and he being merely the son of Joseph and Mary in John 6:42. Which was it the real or illegitimate son? They couldn't accept the virgin birth which means the testimony of Mary and Joseph was taken to be false in that regard.
They knew that no one had ever healed the blind even with the resurrection recorded in the book of Kings of the widow's son. ( 1 Kings 17; John 9:32).
Reading Isaiah 53 shows a graphic picture of Christ and His sufferings at the cross along with other passages in that book and other prophecies such as Psalm 22 in particular. Which is more of a miracle God in all His glory creating the heavens and the earth and sustaining the universe or condescending to take human form to be the propitiation for our sins? ( 1 John 2:2). Which displays His Divine attributes most clearly? In truth; both aspects need to be emphasized lest we consider Him to be anything less than God or insufficient to come in our place to make an atonement for all of the sins of His children. First He had to live as one of us in order to die in our place ( 1 Cor. 15
And we cant just take one word and live by it, The Bible is too complex and needs study. And for my part it seems like many ppl jumps in and out of legal actions. Which turn to confusion. Becouse we have a twisted enemy who will do everything which can destroy Gods selected ppl, saved or not. Evan those ppl that God not have dragged to Him yet. John 6:44. Thats why we need to pray for all ppl on the planet.
Stay close to the word and never loose hope, evan sometimes everything is dark. Mat 26:17-19
Belive in Jesus Christ. Love you all in Jesus name. Happy Easter!
Revelation 13:7-8 is saying that all who dwell upon the earth will worship (the Beast) not God, for they are all those whose names are not written in the Book of Life. Perhaps this is not what you meant to convey.
Later I will go through those verses in this part on the topic you highlight.
I am so glad that God will supply for us in Christ through the Holy Spirit the power to endure to the end and cause us to persevere in faith throughout our life. We, ourselves would not be able to do this. Our salvation is of God from start to finish! Praise the Lord!
Let us pray that we come to unity of faith with sound doctrine taught in Scripture concerning all matters of our God, our salvation, our future. I remember reading that we have eternal life now and in the future. Let me pull up that verse.
John 5:24
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."
John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live"
John 6:47
"Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life."
Eternal life is both a present and future possession of believers. How amazing and comforting that is. We who are in Christ are already raised to life while alive now, but will also be resurrected bodily at Jesus' return to have our salvation become complete and eternal.
Thanks for posting this series on the Last Supper Discourse.
In Part 2 you said several ideas that I don't find supported by the text or the teachings of Scripture concerning Jesus Christ.
In the passage that speaks of "giving eternal life" it states that Jesus was given power and authority by the Father AND that "he" (Jesus) gives eternal life. It is true that it is God who gives eternal life, but Scripture states clearly that both the Father and the Son, Jesus Christ give eternal life --- John 10:28; 1 John 5:11-13; 20; John 6:27, 54; 1 John 1:2.
John 17:2
"even as You (the Father) gave Him (Jesus, the Son)authority over all flesh, that to all whom You (the Father) have given Him (Jesus), He (Jesus)may give eternal life."
When we look at the truth of this verse it clearly states that Jesus give eternal life to all the Father gives Him.
To say of this verse that it is the Father who gives life is not exegeting this verse properly and it diminishes the deity of Jesus.
Also, you state that it was through the Holy Spirit that Jesus knew the Father's will and what to say. But this is not what Scriptures say. In John 14:31 it says that Jesus does all that the Father commands Him (Jesus) to do. No mention of the Holy Spirit here. John 5:19 says that Jesus does all that He sees the Father do. So He knows what the Father's will is and what God is says and does through His own divinity and not through the Holy Spirit.
In His human nature, Jesus relied on the Holy Spirit to be obedient to the Father, but His divinity, being unified with the Father and the Holy Spirit, knew all the will of God, all that the Father does, all that the Father says.
John 10:15 says that "even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep."
To speak as though Jesus needed the Holy Spirit to know what He was to do or say denies His divinity and oneness with the Father. See part 2
Part of service and having others as a priority over our own needs is taking time out for prayer. Jesus prayed all night before picking His 12 Disciples and this wasn't the only time He did this. Communicating with His Father in heaven was a constant ongoing process as He only said what the Father told Him ( John 12:49 etal). Service therefore for the Christian must involve a commitment of time not only for prayer for others but for ourselves; He may have been restricted while on earth to live as one of us but prayed to focus on God how much more should we seek Him?
In one sense Christ was different than everyone else in His humanity. His thoughts and life were pure yet certainly the enemy likely put thoughts of sins in his mind common to man such as lust; hating his enemies; etc. Being the Son of God Satan couldn't accuse Him of anything done wrong; and also had unique temptations as we see when Jesus was led into the wilderness to fast for 40 days. Making stones into bread isn't something anyone can do as a mere man. Throwing Himself down in a suicidal move wasn't going to fly and neither was worshipping Satan. The enemy may offer these things from time to time but only will succeed with Antichrist in the future.
Regarding my last post the Messiah WAS according to the Prophets supposed to come to rule and subdue the nations of the world but that was in the Second Coming; the first was as the suffering servant prophesied in Isaiah 51; hence Isaiah 61 was cut short in His temple proclamation ( Luke 4:16-30). Thus everything according to man's understanding was backwards. Jesus did not come:
As from a regal or wealthy family of notoriety although fulfilled the prophecies as being a descendant of David
To show off His Divinity by signs; wonders and miracles as brought out by the faithlessness of His own hometown ( Mark 6:4).
To allow Himself to be made King by force (as shown in a verse quoted earlier ( John 6:15).
To escape persecution; or to die a peaceful honorable death.
These things bring out what the world's standards are for the "Perfect Man" and who the truly perfect man was. Being considered a pathetic low life is what made Monty Python's sarcastic and disgraceful skit about the Crucifixion as "entertainment" in "Always look at the Bright Side of Life" means. In the next post I will examine further what the world is looking for (soon to be fulfilled in Antichrist); as their superhuman hero to save the planet.
Christ was also referred to as the 2nd Adam ( 1 Cor. 15:45; also seen in Romans 5). Hence Adam was designed in the image of God but because of his sin it affected all his offspring therefore we inherited his sin nature during conception ( Psalm 51:5). Men at that time when Christ lived on the earth expected the Messiah to come to earth and vanquish them of their enemies; hence tried to make him king ( John 6:15). His reaction was to go to withdraw Himself to the mountains (likely to pray).
A cursory examination of the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 5 shows statements that at first seem to contradict the law; or at the very least make the ramifications more severe for our thoughts about things that may or may not become actions. This was illustrated with lusting after a woman being adultery in the heart; and more stringent laws on putting away one's wife. This explanation was brought out further in Matthew 19:8 with the Pharisees on the subject as to the concepts tied in with Deuteronomy 24. This shows that Christ was; as a member of the Godhead able to define and even change what was considered the law to make it more perfect as no one before Him ever was able to live out a sinless life following the law perfectly. Ultimately certain ceremonial laws were brought to an end as seen in Acts 10:15; but alluded to in Mark 7:18-19.
Hence the method of rituals related to the animal sacrifices also was to be ended with the New Covenant. Overall we can say the 10 Commandments as a moral law remain as a universal statute; although the mandatory 7th day of rest only given for Israel and its occupants has been replaced with Sunday as a day of rest although Colossians 2:16-17 says we should avoid disputes over Sabbath Days and I would add Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath ( Matthew 12:8). I am not here to get into a debate over that issue.
To have the law in our hearts was a future promise that Christ demonstrates ( Jeremiah 31:16-18).
The modern Turks are also different from their ancestors. Nowadays thousands of us go there and thousands of them come here just for travelling and holidays, mainly summer holidays. They are described as nice, warm people with a very strong feeling of hospitality but a bit fanatics about their religion and nation. I sometimes pray that God opens their eyes to see the truth. There also many christian congregations there.
Well these are some details from me. Thanks for your posts brother, I enjoyed them, but aso left me sad about me not doing something similar. But everybody has to go according to their gift from God and the measure of faith He has given to anyone. But we need people to go all over the world to spread the gospel. Here we pray to God to rise people like the apostles, strong not only in speech but in power as well. Jesus was telling to the Jews that "I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me." ( John 8:18). How? "... for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me." ( John 6:36). if the ancient people who were easy to believe in myths had to see miracles to believe and we see how the gospel was spread to the world in those early ages through miracles and signs, how about modern people who are proud of their knowledge about everything? Not much will be done if God doesn't recomment His people. We desperately need God's actions. And we have messages from God that it will not go much more before He will act as in the ancient church. I want to believe that this is not the desire of our hearts and our imagination but true messages from God. I pray that God lights a fire in every nation on earth.
Lastly brother, you haven't tired me at all, on the contrary I was expecting more. it is like you are eating a nice meal and keep wanting more and more. Maybe some time you will tell us about your missions in India.
Blessings.
Hebrews 3:19
So we see that they could not enter in because ofunbelief.
The reason why we have Unbelief right now, it's because the word of God is Spiritual. We must worship God in Spirit.
John 3:12
If I have told you earthly things, and yebelieve not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
Jesus Christ wrote the Whole Bible, that means we must believe with all our heart and soul.
John 5:47
But if yebelieve nothis writings, how shall ye believe my words?
The Jews still couldn't believe Jesus in the flesh, how can we believe his words, by Faith alone.
John 6:36
But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, andbelieve not.
If they believe not in the beginning of time and want to betray Jesus, they are doing the same with Apostle Paul's epistles .
John 6:64
But there are some of you thatbelieve not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
We have a choice to believe God's word.
John 8:24
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if yebelieve notthat I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
Ray, in Christ Jesus 1 Corinthians 15:1-4
My Gospel of Grace by believing only
This is my part 2
Since Scripture is clear that Jesus, the Messiah, did exist prior to His conception, then the next question would be:
What was His existence from all eternity past (as Micah 5:2) states comprised of? Luke 1:26, 38 identify Jesus as the Messiah spoken of in this Micah passage.
Unitarians believe like Ronald Whittmore: that Jesus existed as an idea or plan in the mind of God. I have yet to find this teaching anywhere in Scripture that He existed as God with the Father ( John 1:1-3; John 12:41(Is. 6:5).
John 6:46 that Jesus came from the Father and has seen the Father. An idea or plan does not see. And an idea or plan is not God as John so plainly teaches.
Jesus said that before Abraham was, I Am. in John 8:56-58, using the term "I Am" as YHWH did to Moses in Exodus 3, which means, "I exist because I exist", or "I ever exist" or "I am self-existent".
Scripture clearly teaches ( Jn. 1:1-3, Phil 1:5-8) state that Jesus (The Word who became flesh- John 1:14) existed as God prior to becoming human. This indicates that He was clearly not an idea or a plan but a real divine person in relationship with the Father, another divine person. But we also know that there is only one being that is God. Being a distinct person of the Godhead is a different category that the Being of God, not a different God, but a distinction within the one Divine Being.
In Hebrews 1 Jesus is spoken of as the begotten Son of the Father that the Father brought into the world (in the flesh) but He existed as the Son of the Father eternally before He was conceived. In John 1:8, Psalm 45:6-7 is quoted and attributed to the Father speaking to the Son, "Thy throne, O GOD; is forever and ever." The Father is calling the Son God!
John 17:5 has Jesus asking the Father to restore to Himself (Jesus) the glory that He shared with the Father prior to His (Jesus) humbling Himself to become human as well as retaining His Deity.
See Pt. 3
I have been considering your questions and praying how I can respond to help you. First of all, I will say that you can receive thoughtful responses on this forum. You can also find good answers to these two questions by searching the internet with these questions. The responses there may be as good if not better than what I or others have done so here on this forum. Not all internet sources are equally sound from a biblical perspective just as not all responses to your questions here are such. I would recommend the Got Question site as a start. They give a fairly concise explanation to your questions.
As I was thinking on your questions, I came to these responses:
1) Does Scripture speak of Jesus existing prior to His conception in Mary?
The first Scripture I will cite is John chapter 1. It does tell us that Jesus is the Word of God, who also is God, who was with God from the beginning. Jesus is said by John to have created all that has been created. And that the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.
John 8:56: Jesus says that He existed before Abraham existed. He used the term "I AM" in this verse which is a specific reference to the name God gave to Moses in Exodus 3, which means "I self-exist" or "I exist because I exist".
In many verses Jesus states that He came from heaven to earth, from the Father, being sent from the Father, that He is from above. The Gospel of John is replete with verses that state this.
John 8:23; John 1:18; John 3:1,17; John 6:38; John 17:21; John 3:34; John 18:36; John 1:15; John 3:12-13, 31-36; John 16: 27-28.
John 12:41refers back to Isaiah 6:5 where Isaiah saw the LORD seated on the throne and all the angels said "Holy, Holy, Holy".
John here says that Isaiah saw the glory of Jesus on the throne because he was speaking of Jesus is verses 37-40.
The New Testament states explicitly in many places that Jesus is the Christ (Jewish Messiah). In Micah 5:2 states that the Messiah existed for all eternity past.
As a man, yea as a Son, Jesus now talks to & prays to His Father in Heaven. He also said that He came to only do His Father's Will ( John 6:38), so in every respect, Jesus laid aside His Glory that He enjoyed with & in God, & as a Man waited upon His Father continually.
To the natural mind, how could Jesus be God & then be found praying to & worshiping Him? My answer is that Jesus laid aside that Glory & Position to become a Man, a Man Who came to be sacrificed ( John 12:27), and now a Son, subservient to His Father in all things. So how does God then become a Son? That is why God reveals Himself to us as Father, Son & Holy Spirit - if one aspect of His Nature is removed, I believe that God ceases to be God. Just as if our spirit or soul or body is removed or put to death, we instantly cease to be the person that was once born into the world. God exists as a Tripartite God - He can't exist as any other - that is Who He is (as revealed to us). For our sakes, God chose to take that part of Himself & give it flesh (what we otherwise understand as and called, His Word). This act doesn't render God speechless or in any way deficient in knowledge, for His Word is still active in Christ & by His Spirit. And He has given us His Word (both in Christ & the written Word) & His Spirit, thus causing us to truly become new creatures, alive in Jesus & to be lovingly called, the children of the Most High. What a great privilege - what an undeserved position we have been granted, as those already seated in the heavenlies, IN CHRIST ( Ephesians 2:4-7). And that is how our Father sees us & receives us - His blood-bought, His special children, His Spirit-sealed, forever His - because of His Work alone to ransom us. Onto Page 5.
The word of God is Spirit and is alive. No man can understand God unless they understand the word in Spirit.
John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Ephesians 6:17
And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of theSpirit, whichisthewordof God:
Jesus Christ is the Word of God.
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Romans 10:17
Sothen faith cometh byhearing, andhearing bythewordof God.
Ephesians 2:8
Forbygrace are ye saved throughfaith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ray, in Christ Jesus
I argue that whether it is Baptism; Communion or "fellowship of the saints" when two or more are gathered together He is present; and of course as Revelation 1 and 2 seem to show sometimes it is only a few individuals who are walking correctly; and of course if we can't reach the lukewarm through admonition we should flee the lukewarm church that He will "spue out of His mouth as with the Laodiceans.
We do well to study what it means to be taking communion "unworthily". Certainly unconfessed sin comes to mind but it may be easy to overlook forgiving one's brother first as Jesus said we should do before going to the altar. Certainly this affects communion as well as we are part of the Body of Christ and any schisms hurt us and others as well.
We could also look at what made Christ's body and blood unique. He was born based on the Spirit basically being the "seed" that allowed for a virgin birth. If we consider what makes Him different we can look at a perfect "DNA" and such; but the spiritual perfection vs imperfection is beyond just the symptom of physical decay and death; it is being sinless vs sinful; inherited sin can't be explained readily. Also he bears the scars; certainly not the suffering eternally. This is what makes the "stigmata" of occultic origin only Christ atones.
I will not comment on John 6:60-65. It is obvious there that Jesus speaks figuratively ( although there are other opinions). But does He also speak figuratively when he had the last supper with His disciples and gave them His Blood and Flesh.
Paul says to Corinthians that if someone eats His flesh and drinks His blood having a sin then they get damned. How is it possible that an emblem causes harm? It doesn't seem logical. But if they are indeed His Blood and Flesh then it makes sense Because holy things get inside a sinful body. It is like in the OT when a priest was to enter the Holy of Holies being uncleaned. He was in danger of falling dead. I don't believe in transubstantiation but the bread and wine become Flesh and Blood of Jesus "by faith".