Discuss John 5 Page 11

Lazarus, John 11, your question about those who came out of the graves, what happened to them:

1Samuel 2:6,

Matthew 27:52,53, 1Corinthians 15, Matthew 22:31,32, also, Luke 7:15,22, Luke 8:49-56, Luke 24, Colossians 1

Did you see it prophesy in:? Ezekiel 37:12,13, John 5:21,25,28, Isaiah 26:19,

Hosea 13:14, possibly Isaiah 8:1, Psalms 88:10,

John 12:1-11,

Romans 6, Romans 8, Revelation 20,

John 11:25, Romans 10:9, Romans 14:7,8,9, 2Corinthians 1:9,

Hopefully these are all helpful in answering your question & deeper questions you & others may have on the subject

Jane,

Yes, Amen! God always keeps His promises. John 5:15 says, "And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:"

That's a factual statement. He hears us. God will answer every prayer that is asked when we ask for His will to be done, guaranteed!

So, we can have complete confidence that if we ask for God's will to be done in whatever it is we are asking Him for, the promise is that He hears us, and He will answer that prayer if it's asked according to His will. Sometimes the answer is not what we expect, but we can be satisfied that our prayer was answered, and it was answered according to His will which is always going to be perfect!

God always answers prayer. Always. It may not be what we ask for--or when we ask for Him to grant it--because He knows what we need and when we need it better than we do. Continue to pray and wait upon the Lord. He will not fail you.1 John 5:14 - And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:

God bless!

Paul. All truth that you seek are in scripture the bible John 5:39 the main

subject of the scripture is the gospel of salvation in Jesus Christ. So if

You seek the truth there is no other book on earth that has spiritually the

Truth.

Dere:

Salvation is so YOU will never die; but are GIVEN eternal life.

1 John 5:11 And this is the record, God hath GIVEN to us eternal LIFE, and THAT LIFE is his SON.

YOU DIED with Christ on the cross.

YOU AROSE, a new creation, the LIFE of Christ IN YOU: you are the body of Christ.

1 Timothy 6:16 Who (Christ) ONLY hath IMMORTALITY, dwelling in the light ....

1 Corinthians 15:53 .....and this mortal (you) SHALL PUT ON IMMORTALITY .....Christ ONLY hath IMMORTALITY.

1 Corinthians 15:54 .....Death is swallowed up in victory ......

Colossians 1:27 .....this MYSTERY .....Christ in YOU .....

1 Corinthians 12:27 Now ye are the BODY of Christ ....

Psalms 82:6 I have said, YOU are gods, the children of the most high.

This is the GOOD NEWS of the gospel.

God bless you!

Hi Alex. In Matthew 4:8-10, we read, "Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve."

In this specific test that Satan placed before Jesus, we note that Jesus didn't oppose Satan on the point of "All these things will I give thee", but on the point of 'falling down & worshipping him (Satan)'. Even though God is the Creator & Sustainer of the World & will always have full authority over all His Creation, the advent of sin into mankind which also affects the rest of creation, Satan is now in the seat of control over the hearts & minds of men ( 2 Timothy 2:26; 1 John 5:19). He has captivated our hearts by the deceitfulness of sin, men given over wholly to him, and only by the presentation of the Life-giving Gospel can those same sinners have a spark of Holy Light enter in that can upset Satan's plans & strong grip.

So, presently the World is under Satan's control & deception, as he blinds hearts & minds to the Truth of the Gospel, but God still has the final say & of course the ultimate victory when Satan will one day be bound & destined to that eternal flame and the new heavens & earth arrive, without the stain of corruption ( Revelation 20:10-15; Revelation 21:1-3).

Yes Steve, 1 John 5:7 says, "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one", is the best singular verse that succinctly describes the Triune God. Then to humanly fathom such a Being as God Who can send Himself forth to accomplish His Purposes (as His Word & Holy Spirit) & not be deficient or destroy Himself in any way, becomes a difficulty for many - hence the on-going debates on this important subject.

Revelation 6:1-2 the white horse.

There are two basic interpretations of the white horse that of being Antichrist (which I subscribe to); or Christ. Because Post-Millennials (who think that the church is currently fulfilling the 1000 year reign; clearly symbolically with almost 2000 years since the crucifixion) ascribe this conquering king to Christ they also take the time frame in Revelation as having been at least partially fulfilled. This is due to the belief in only one general Resurrection (despite obvious differences in the descriptions); jamming everything related to the events of the Second coming to those of the Great White Throne judgment; in other words no time frame after Armageddon for an earthly reign of Christ; and an immediate new heaven and earth. This forces clear verses in Isaiah about a man dying at less than 100 being accursed; other verses about those who don't worship the Lord not having rain; and of course a literal rebuilt Temple. With this mindset at an extreme level we find those who are into the Dominionist mindset; that Christ can't return or won't until things keep getting more and more Christian and better and better. Often a literal Antichrist isn't believed in at all; which begs the question for those not spiritually discerned if they will believe that he indeed IS the Christ. Full Preterists who think He is already here in some form will fall for it no doubt.

Further supplementing my point is the common thread whether in Islam with the 12th Imam; the New Age Maitreya; or the Jews who Christ stated point blank would believe another coming in his own name ( John 5:43). He will be another great orator like Hitler; conqueror like Napolean; and therefore fulfill the statements made by the Club of Rome in 1957 about "whether God or the devil we will receive him" when discussing the need for a leader to rule.

It is clear from Daniel and other prophecies that there is yet a final future ruler to come.

Hello Texsis, I am happy i can share with you.

your first question:

It all about what the Bible says.

So we have the same punishment for sin. ref Romans 6:23-for the wages of SIN is death... this means sin is sin and it has the same punishment. Remember even in the garden off Eden as Adam and Eve ate of the tree of good and evil God pre warned that the day they eat from that tree they will surely die.

."

James 2:10-11. when we break one part of the law it deemed as breaking the whole law. Death has always been the punishment but we have consequences of our sins. ref:1 John 5:17 "All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death

your second question:

well i haven't come across the exact word you used LIE-MURDERER but 1 John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

when you hate your brother you CAN lie about him also.

i will remember your son in prayers too. Amen

When Christ answered Nicodemus about being born again, He told him that a man must be born of water and Spirit to enter the kingdom of heaven. Jesus qualifies this by saying that which is flesh or of the earth which is water is flesh. And, that which is born of Spirit is Spirit or from above heaven.

1 John 5: 6-8. Jesus came by water and blood. We are covered by His blood. When the soldier pierced Jesus's side out came blood and water. Water proves that Jesus was truly the Son of Man from earth. That's why we are to test the Spirits to see if they believe that Christ came in the flesh or believe that He was born of earth. We that believe this are of the Spirit of Christ. Those that do not believe this are of the Spirit of the anti-Christ and there are many.

Christ says He has a baptism to baptize you with. For He comes to baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with Fire.

Hope this helps and have a blessed day!

I'd like to ask a question directed at anyone who believes Jesus isn't God the Son or a part of any Godhead and may be open to responding. I come in peace to ask a question for my own understanding and I won't respond to this thread as I know how passionate the discussions on this topic can become.

The regular brothers and sisters here probably know that I believe Jesus is God the Son, because of what it says in John 1:1, 1 John 5:7, etc. I feel lead to defend Jesus when I sometimes see comments denying His divinity, especially if to influence newer believers, but I won't post again here.

My question is: do you believe Jesus as the Son of God has any % of God the Father in Him? If so, what %?

In human terms, most of us understand that when a father has a son that about 50% of his DNA and genes will come from the father, and 50% from the mother. Because there is no mention of the Son of God having a mother, one may presume that most of any inherited traits may have come from God the Father through some kind of miraculous act.

Basically, if you don't believe Jesus is God, do you believe that any % of God-ness may have been inherited from God the Father (and what scripture says)?

God bless.

Read 1 Thess. 4. It is the clearest text about the Second Coming and what happens when you die. The dead come from the grave and meet the Lord in the air. Also consider this. When Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead, John 11, if he was in Heaven Jesus brought him back so the Pharases could kill him. John 12:10 Jesus said "he sleeps when He was addressing comments regarding Lazarus' death. Everyone is in the grave until the resurrection of the just or the resurrection of the unjust. John 5:28-29

Hey Giannis,

Thanks, I agree, many will burn in the lake of fire, but no one will be cast into it until Rev. 20:15 not before. I believe this is a parable and you do not and that's ok. If we look at the context, Jesus was directing it to the Pharisees who was highly educated, who was being snooty.

I agree the story fits Greek mythology but in the Old or New Testament scripture does not support an after-death place we go before resurrection; I have not found one verse that says we, as man, go or are taken to heaven. Do you know one?

My understanding of scripture death is sleep; scripture tells us there is no knowledge of time until we are resurrected. Greek philosophy of death from Socrates, Plato, death is the separation of the soul/spirit from the body that is falsely said to be immortal. This has (in my understanding) intertwined into Christianity teaching.

There is only one group of angels that are locked in chains of darkness, the ones in 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 1:6. These left their own habitation, and God locked them in darkness for what they did against God's creation. Satan, other fallen angels, and devils/demons are on this earth even today.

In Matt. 27 it just seemed different to use another word for resurrection than the Greek word "anastasis" used all the other times for resurrection. It was John 5:25 When Jesus said the hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and shall live. These are the ones I believe when Jesus cried out came out of their graves. John 5:28-29 will be the final resurrection. Hope that makes since.

The different times in Mark and John I will have to go with everything else that was written. There is not a contradiction between John and Mark, Jesus was nailed to the cross and stood up on the 3rd hour, 9AM the same time the first lamb of the Tamid was put on the altar on Passover day, the preparation day for the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, a sabbath day.

God bless,

RLW

Hi James.

Maybe? Hebrews 10:5-10 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Or perhaps John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

?

Part 2

Ronald

Now in verse Matthew 27:53 the word "egersis" literally means "rising" and is another way of saying resurrection, like rising from the dead. If I understand well, you mean that those people that were resurrected were the ones that Jesus meant in John 5:28-29 so as to prove to Jews that He is the Son of God? Right? But verse 29 says "And shall (the resurrected people) come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." So it seems to me that Jesus talks about the future resurrection of the dead and the consequent judgement. Anyway ...

Now I also have a question. What time was Jesus crucified? In Mark 15:25 it says 3rd hour, that is 6+3=9 o'cock in the morning. Right? But in John 19:14, it is 6th hour (12 at noon) and Jesus is still standing infront of Pilatus.

GBU

Predestination and John 10

This entire chapter is based on the Pharisees; a blind man, the Disciples and a few others and Christ as revealed to them. along In a verse from the next chapter; Jesus states believe me; or if not at least on the WORKS I do ( John 10:38). Jesus selected or elected this man for healing; without him asking first which is noteworthy.

Verse 2 starts out with the Disciples themselves blindly following a superstitious idea that someone had to have sinned in order for the man to be in this condition. This at least partially could have been a logical concept since others had been healed who were told not to sin lest a worse thing happen to them; for instance from John 5:14. Jesus answered this "one size fits all" concept of the fate of this man by giving God's glory as a reason; as well as a prophetic hint perhaps partially fulfilled at His crucifixion; with a final one after the end of the Age of Grace in v. 4-5.

After he followed simple instructions; first his neighbors asked what had happened and if it was Him; then the Pharisees with their usual condemnation of Sabbath Day healings, they checked with the parents who verified his identity then sent him back to them; then further discourse as to Christ's character and repeated questions actually got the blind man to realize that Christ could not be a sinner as no man could do this miracle in that case. This led to him being thrown out of the synagogue; His revelation and acceptance and worship of Christ as SOn of God. Then comes the end where the Pharisees are told they remain in sin and the blind man sees spiritually and physically.

Therefore; despite continuing evidence of God's divine nature in Christ's actions; the blind Pharisees continue to be blinded by the god of this world to Christ as Lord and Savior.

Hey Giannis,

Hope you don't mind, I read your posts. I do not know if you read my post to Gary in this thread, but you commented on the Greek words in the, (my understanding a parable) Luke 16. And you spoke on Matt. 27:51-52. My understanding of this comes from what John wrote of what Jesus said.

In John 8 they were pressing Jesus who He was, and He said this in vs. 28 he does nothing of Himself, but He said when you have lifted up the Son of Man then you will know I am He. Then In John 5:25-29 Jesus said the hour is coming and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God and they shall live. Now is not later Jesus is saying now which He is talking about what is written in Matt. 27.

In vs 28 Jesus said marvel not at this for the hour is coming in which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice, (but He did not say and now is). This goes to your comment on the final resurrection, but I will not comment on that now.

In Matthew 27 Jesus had been hanging on that cross since 9 AM going on 6 hours, and I am sure He was going in and out of consciousness and when Jesus cried out for the last time, He may have come to which in my understanding refers to the word resurrection used in vs 53. You will know the Greek better than me, but it is a different word than the other words used for resurrection. it is egersis, meaning resurgence not necessarily from death.

But my understanding is when Jesus cried out all these things happened, the veil of the temple rent, earthquake, the rocks rent, and the graves were opened, many bodies of the saints which slept arose and went into the city and appeared to many. As you said like Lazarus.

To me vs 54 confirms what Jesus said in John 8:28 truly this was the Son of God. Many knew they just killed the Son of God. "Then shall ye know that I am He"

God bless,

RLW

Hello all chosen sisters and brothers of grace. I am so grateful to God that He has chosen me. Then I'm sure you are too. When i opened the Holy Scriptures today John 5. That chapter has so much to offer.

John 5:1-15 John 5:16-23 John 5:24-29 And possibly more.

A whole little study on Wednesday morning, left to you. Hallelujah God Is Good!

Stand strong in the Word and God bless you in Jesus, love u in Christ.

Dear "Willie milton", i don't quite understand your intention with this post. Because as far as i can see Hebrews 5:1 has nothing to do with women's periods. Otherwise, i see what you mean and it's right.

The Holy Spirit fills the person who is willing to do God's Will. Jesus Himself had to submit to God.

God bless u in Jesus name, love u in Christ. John 5:1-15

Hello Doug,

I think we would be hard pressed to find someone that understands it all. I know I am far, far from it myself. My thought on remission of sin is that no amount of water can remove the stain of sin. I believe the blood Jesus shed was sufficient, nothing else needed, including water. Personally, and this is just my thought process, but if I were to say that water played some part in the remission of sin, I would basically be saying that the blood Jesus shed on my behalf was insufficient for my salvation.

As for John 19:34, those pockets of blood and water that are around the heart area, some medical experts have said this indicates that Jesus died of a ruptured heart and that water and blood would coagulate in the area around the heart by the way that He died, suffocating.



Here is what I get from reading 1 John 5:6: It says, "This is He, (Jesus), that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that bears witness, because the Spirit is the truth." John is going to present three witnesses. At the Lord's baptism, it showed He had a physical body. But he says and blood, that it was the Lord's physical body that shed blood on the cross. Both of those instances are witnesses to the physical body of Jesus, along with the Spirit that bears witness, because the Spirit is the truth.

Now for Acts 2:38, where Peter says, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins," I have to believe that they would have never been water baptized unless they first repented. My understanding is that repentance is the emphasis, not water baptism. A person must repent, completely surrender their life to Christ for their salvation, and then after that, be water baptized. But it's the repentance and complete surrender to Jesus Christ that removes or remits sin, not water.

1st John 5:6-9

This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood.

And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood,and these three agree in one.

If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his son.

Jesse, I do think water could have some role in the remission of sins. I don't claim to understand it all, but out of Jesus side flowed blood and water. John 19:34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. 1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Jesus always spoke of his Father in Heaven.

Matthew 16:17

And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in HEAVEN.

[not in Rome]

Matthew 23:9

And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in HEAVEN.

Mark 13:32

But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Matthew 5:16

Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father

WHICH IS IN HEAVEN.

Some Blood of Jesus scripture references:

Hebrews 10:19 and 13:12; Ephesians 2:13

1 John 1:7 and 1 John 5:6

Matthew 16:17

I do not want to offend. The Pope, nor any priest of the Catholic Church should be called Father.

God is a consuming fire.

As long as we keep those facts straight, we are ok. The council of Nicea, adopted the King James Bible for all faiths to use.

The way things are going, in the World, now: is a good time to be following Jesus.

Recently, the Pope went to Israel and counseled them to give the West Bank to the Palestinians.

In the Book of Genesis, God made a Covenant through Abraham concerning the Lands of Israel; which includes Jerusalem. The Final wars of mankind will be over Who Owns Israel.

If you don't have a Bible, there is a full Bible on this Website, plus Commentarie.

First of all, let me say thank you for taking the time to answer my question. I pray the love of our Lord and savior Christ Jesus continuously pour into your hearts and lives. I just got done reading Rom 7 and couldn't stop. Went through to chapter 9 and will go back into it more later. I understand everything said and know it as truth. The relationship I share with God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit is on a very much deeper level than most as I have chosen to sacrifice my life in its entirety. My life is not my own it is Gods. I am 54 years old grew up in a home with a family that had no love and was extremely violent and shed with blood and misery. Admittedly my choices in life were my own. I was a vile individual from the time I joined the army until Feb this year. I had fought my whole life to not become that man my dad was. I failed in Feb 2022 when I raised my hand against my wife and went to Jail. I paid my penalties and did my time and have since repented. That was the turning point of my life that I chose to fight the good fight and stand for Jesus! When I saw that verse 1 John 5:17 from where I'm at now in my life it wasn't me in the flesh but The Holy Spirit that quickened me. I have been in seclusion isolated with God and my dog since that day and have dedicated my life to seeking God. I have chosen to remove everything that is worldly from my life. I really do not partake of sin. It utterly repulses my spirit and flesh, yes, my flesh as I have given control of my entire being to God for use through the Holy Spirit. I do fail daily but the Holy spirit convicts me instantly. I am not perfect but have come to the realization that 54 years has been too long and fraught with peril. I cannot control the flesh but God sure can when you ask him to. To me, I must live with the realization that Sin = Death because of how I choose to live now. For sure as I turn my back on God, I become a monster you do not want. Peace and Love in Jesus! Amen!!

Verses 1 through 15 are on a mysterious matter; which I will leave other commentators to evaluate. The focus on verse 14 is where I am drawing attention to. Jesus isn't quoted as saying who He was; but the man who was healed was warned to go and sin no more. This assumes once again that Jesus is part of the Godhead; and ties into the rest of the chapter where once again the Pharisees go about a familiar theme of scolding Christ for healing on the Sabbath Day. It is interesting to note that whoever this angel was it certainly didn't stop those seeking a healing or those who did the "work" of taking the first person into the water to be healed. The plan of the Godhead; as to needing to honor the Son to honor the Father (v. 23) with the future resurrection covered from v. 24-29. After discussion of John in v. 36 he tells the audience that they don't know Him in v. 38. They will not come to Him (v. 40); nor have the love of God in them (v. 42). Antichrist is alluded to in v. 43 as to future worship; and Moses is said to accuse them; in v. 45 to 47. This reminds us of the story of Lazarus and the rich man in hell.

The interrelated theme shows that it is all or nothing. If we don't love Christ; we don't love the Father; or those preaching righteousness; or even the lawgivers of the O.T. We can't love the law as Psalm 119 states or have any part in fellowship with the living God. Inexorably; the plan of God; interaction with each member of the Godhead and salvation of any soul is according to a predetermined method because of God's sovereignty. May we cry out and ask God to help us with our unbelief ( Mark 9:24)

Brother Richard:

You are correct, there is no scriptures that says there is not a rapture; but there is scripture that says that rapture is not COLLECTIVE; but, ONE by ONE.

Isaiah 27:12 ....and ye shall be gather ONE by ONE, O ye children of Israel.

Whatever the Word says, will happen. Scripture CANNOT contradict scripture, It must be RIGHTLY DIVIDED to reveal truth.

Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

I also love the book of Revelation, but man's (anti-Christ) teachings have distilled it's TRUTH. It's the REVEALING of CHRIST the KINGDOM of GOD.

John 5:43 I (truth, Christ) come in my Father's name, and ye received me (truth) not: if another come in his OWN NAME, HIM (anti-truth, anti-Christ) will ye receive.

God Bless ALL as we come to HIS TRUTH.

Revelation 5:13 certainly does seem to indicate that a worldwide praise of God occurs. The only question is; if this is not a chronological marker of the events immediately after the Rapture but indicates perhaps when the 2nd coming; or even Great White Throne judgment occurs when people are forced to bow. ( Isaiah 45:23; Philippians 2:11). In any event; it is pretty clear that by the sixth seal the world will be well aware of God the Father and the Son on the throne in heaven; and the fact that wrath has started. Perhaps there will be a full understanding of the Father and Son right after the Rapture; as the verse above seems to suggest. The world would be deceived; however in thinking that wrath doesn't begin until later; as the 1st Seal somehow will appear to be a solution to the world's problems. The Antichrist certainly will be a substitute for Christ ( John 5:43); and there is no verse that seems to indicate any denial of a Rapture event; and certainly worldwide Resurrections with empty tombs and damaged graveyards can't be denied. Undoubtably; there will be some message explaining why some weren't taken; and explaining away as a UFO abduction of those missing is a likely thing to occur. Everyone at that point will want to find solutions; and this super orator will appear to be the 12th Imam; Maitreya; or whatever figure best suits all those who don't love the truth but believe THE lie ( 2 THess. 2:11). This will also allow the one world government; currency and final "Beast" kingdom to be established.

When we look at the life of Christ; being praised in the streets one week before many turned against Him at the cross; we see how quickly men's hearts can turn. In the Tribulation; men will go from fearing God to attempting at the end to fight against Him ( Psalm 2; Rev. 19). It is also not inconceivable that men fear God yet still worship idols ( 2 Kings 17:41; Rev. 9:20-21).

Rev. 13:8 shows how all those not written in the Book of Life succumb

Reply to Chris.

Jesus, God the Father, and the Holy Spirit all exhibit the uniqueness attributable only to God, even though each is somehow spoken of as separate from God. God is Triune and therefore difficult for humans to understand. Humans also have divisions that are not easily understandable, although not separate entities like the Trinity of God. We have spirits, souls, and bodies, and they 3 are one, as we see in 1 John 5:

1 John 5:8

And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Another reference to the divisions in men is found in Hebrews 4:

Hebrews 4:12

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Another example can be gleaned from Romans 7:

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Hi Donald,

I think your doctrine of not believing in Jesus's divinity requires a few hoops to jump through:

1. Not take John 1:1 literally that says Jesus (Word) is God

2. Ignore that God is plural 'we' and 'us' in Genesis

3. Assume that Jesus's behavior as a temporary man with limited power automatically means that that is how He normally is

4. Misinterpret the word "begotten"

5. Ignore the words Godhead and claim its a bad translation

6. Ignore that Jesus's name Immanuel means 'God with us'

7. Ignore 1 John 5:7-8 that the Father, Son, Holy Spirit are one, and try to dilute the word 'one' to make it seem insignificant.

8. Ignore John 1:3 that Jesus has always been and made everything and claim that Jesus was created later

9. Ignore that Jesus is the same I AM in the NT as the I AM in the OT

10. Ignore that Jesus is the same First/Last, Beginning/End in the NT as the same from God in the OT.

There's much more, but I'll stop at 10. I'm also not 100% sure you even read my last 2 replies so I don't want to spent energy on something you may not even read. There's an enormous about of verses supporting that Jesus is God and nothing clearly saying the opposite. For example if you found a verse that says 'Jesus is NOT God', then you would then only begin to your cause to counter the Bible already saying Jesus IS God in John 1:1, but we don't even have that.

With all the scriptural evidence here, is it possible you have any vested interest to prove that Jesus isn't God for another reason? If you read enough verses supporting that Jesus IS God, is that something you might reconsider someday or do you feel content with your current belief?

Do you believe Jesus is truly Lord like it says in Romans 10:9?

God bless.

Hi Ronald,

I'm not able to follow your thought process on all your points, but some. I think most of your points fall within the same logic/belief that Jesus prayed and referred to the Father as "God" and even prayed to "God" therefore how can Jesus be God and pray to Himself? Am I understanding your position accurately? If so, I think most of your "If Jesus is God..." arguments seem to fall within this one overall assumption.

The thing missing from this assumption is that Jesus is not in His normal state. He became a man to go to earth to live as us and to die for our sins. John 1. Yes, Jesus prayed to God the Father. I believe He limited His power to a degree to live on Earth like us. I think He could have exercised His power, but chose not to. Example: Matthew 26:53.

Philippians 2:6 - this says Jesus is equal to God. Verse 7-8 says he humbled Himself as a servant as a man. v9-11 then Jesus was exalted, that every knee will bow and confess Jesus is Lord, name above all other names.

If you believe the Bible when it says that says Jesus created all things ( John 1:3 ), is equal to God ( phil 2:6), is one with God ( John 10:30), is God ( John 1:1), has a name above all other names ( Phil 2:9-11), should be baptized in His name ( Matthew 28:19) then is it such a stretch to believe that's true?

Simply believing what the Bible says is not a 'doctrine' as some claim, but those believing things the Bible doesn't say is definitely a human doctrine.

I get that people have a hard time comprehending that God is plural and how exactly that words out. We will find out in the end. But just because people don't understand 1 John 5:7 doesn't mean it's not true. Truth is true regardless of whether people choose to believe it or not.

John 8:58 - What do you think Jesus meant when he said "I am"?

Exodus 3:14 - What do you think of God saying "I am"?

John 5:23 - strong warning to anyone who dishonors Jesus.

God bless.