"If the Shroud of Turin is legitimate (which seems undeniable)"
The Scriptures deny the legitimacy of the Shroud of Turin.
-- John 20:7 And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself.
The Shroud is a one piece woven cloth, Christ was not bury in a one piece linen cloth. His head was wraped in a separate "napkin" and was laid apart from the the burial shourd.
-- John 11:44 And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.
Lazarus was also buried the same.
-- 2 Corinthians 5:14-17 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again. 16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. 17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
With the Holy Spirit within us, we no longer live according to our sinful nature. We recognize that the flesh is inherently corrupt, so there's no need to judge or understand someone based on their outward, physical self-instead, we should connect with them on a spiritual level. God doesn't focus on the flesh, and neither should we. When sharing the gospel with those who are lost, their carnal side will always resist it. That's why we must appeal to their inner spirit, witnessing to that part of them and guiding them away from worldly desires.
Jesus didn't resurrect in a physical body but in a glorified, spiritual one. As believers filled with the Spirit, we eagerly await our own spiritual bodies. Though we haven't received them yet, we're already transformed-we're not who we once
If your "battle" is with believing that Jesus is God, may I suggest the following scriptures for your consideration:
Genesis 1:1 along with John 1:1-3, Revelation 19:13, Colossians 1:15-17, Matthew 1:23, John 10:30, John 14:9, Mark 2:5-7, John 8:58, John 20:28, Isaiah 9:6, Philippians 2:5-7, Colossians 2:9, 1 Timothy 3:16, Hebrews 1:8, 2 Peter 1:1, Revelation 1:8, John 5:18, 1 John 5:20, Luke 24:52, John 9:38, Acts 10:25-26, Titus 2:13, Hebrews 1:3, Revelation 22:13, Micah 5:2, John 17:5, John 1:14. There are more, but these should suffice.
You mention that "Christians say that there is no separation between Christ and God," and that the bible shows otherwise. Jesus said I and my Father are one, and He also said that if you have seen Me, you have seen the Father. This may not mean anything to you, but in the book of Hebrews, Jesus is described as the APOUGASMA (the out beam) of God's glory, God projecting Himself through the time/space factor in the person of Christ. Jesus Christ, being God, was never separated from the source. This is why Jesus can say if you have seen Me, you have seen the Father.
The best example I can give would be taking a flashlight in a dark room and shining it on a wall. The flashlight is the source, and the light is projected on the wall from the source. There is no separation unless the flashlight is turned off. Now, imagine the flashlight being God, and the light shining on the wall is Jesus, again, no separation. Jesus is said to be the true light which came down from heaven, the APOUGASMA of God.
If you are sincerely struggling with the deity of Jesus Christ (Him being God), I hope these scriptures I've provided might help. Also, if you would like, I can share my personal understanding on Matthew 26:39 and Luke 22:42 and why Christ would ask this.
If I may ask, are you a Christian? If so, who do you say Jesus is?
Faith is not dependent on evidences and proofs; it is purely a gift from God, irrespective of merit, intelligence or education. 1 Corinthians 2:5 ..That your faith should not stand (be) in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. 2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. Ephesians 2:8 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
It is natural to doubt. Even Apostle Thomas had doubts; he could not believe the other disciples until he had personal experience of the resurrected Christ! Personally, I do not think that Thomas believed after examining the crucifixion scar on Jesus' body; there were no marks at all, for a resurrected body cannot have blemishes and marks of the past. Jesus was only interacting with his human nature and raising him to the higher level of faith by referring to his words of unbelief. Thomas, then approached Jesus NOT to verify the crucifixion marks, but to confess him as his Lord! John 20: John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. I think, IF Thomas had searched His body for proof, he would have got disappointed! But Jesus did not let him fail; He wanted Thomas to believe in Him without seeing: That is Faith. (continued)
John 10:30 I and my Father are one. Should we not consider other verses, John 17:11, John 17:20-23, John 14:28. These verses, Numbers 23:19, John 20:17, 2 Corinthians 11:31, Ephesians 1:3, Ephesians 4:4-6, and 1 Peter 1:3. Then, in Revelation 21:22-23 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. 23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
God wanted to be with His people, He first instructed Moses to build a tabernacle, which was symbolic of Jesus. Jesus was born without sin, not by man but of the seed of a woman whose Father was God. God could dwell in Him. Like the tabernacle, Jesus was holy, not defiled. Jesus became the light of the world, the Shekinah Glory manifested in Him and God again dwelt with man in the flesh of Jesus, to me that is John 1:14.
I do thank you for your reply, and I hope and pray I do not offend anyone who reads what I post; our discussions should only inspire us to study, not to win or demean, if so, we all lose.
I will stop here; I do not want to get ahead of Jesse's work in Revelation. You are always welcome to reply to me GiGi.
All pre-existed in the mind, thoughts, reason, and doctrine of our God the Father, the definition of logos. Revelation 3:14, the beginning of the creation of God, the starting point, the predetermined position of authority that God would give to His Son at the point in time that God planned before creation.
Jesus understood all the Scriptures that foretold the glory destined for Him in the mind of God the Father before creation. God's thoughts and plans began with Jesus, who became the tabernacle of God in flesh on earth. Through Him, eternal life can be bestowed upon all who believe in Him. Every word Jesus spoke was God's word: John 7:15-16, John 12:49, John 14:24.
How should we understand verse 3? Jesus, in prayer to the Father, states that eternal life is dependent on knowing the Father, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, the Messiah whom God sent.
Jesus knew who He was. He said in John 20:17, He had a Father and a God. Jesus is praying to His Father, He had no power of himself; all he did and said was the Father working in him. Jesus perfectly submitted to God's will by choice and obedience; the glory Jesus was praying for was yet to be realized, only in the knowledge He had from Scripture and the Holy Spirit He was anointed with, without measure of what it would be.
We must confess Jesus is the Son of God.
I am sorry for this long post; read it, study it, or ignore it. I love you guys.
The time of Christ had the religious leadership and scribes as a sort of unstable partnership with the rest of the Roman society. Christ was the polarizing force so that the Herodians; for instance were in league with the Pharisees when it came to crucifying the Son of God. Such situations made for strange bedfellows it seems.
Such is a warning to exercise caution with too much assimilation with any political party; no matter how much they may seem to or claim to adhere to our Christian values. We can vote for or support a candidate without worshipping them; or selling ourselves out to a cause at the expense of the eternal mission for the Kingdom of God which we are as the true church called and commissioned for.
It is an interesting thought in light of the fact that we don't see yet believe today ( John 20:29). The Lord may withhold miracles to avoid having someone commit this unpardonable sin; but that could be conjecture on my part. It is certain though the hearts of many; in fact most were indeed blinded to recognize when their Messiah came whether it was by ignoring the prophecies of His first coming and being obsessed with Him coming back to smite the nations; or just thinking He was a great teacher; or not giving up all to follow the Lord and conveniently downplaying who He was or the fact that we have to surrender ALL to follow Him and die to our old self.
I have also said before that whenever there are true miracles today you would expect as with any Godly people in Christ to be persecuted. You also would expect the enemy to produce similar but false effects along with the many false Christs to follow whenever the Lord is truly at work. This is why true doctrine is so important. If the Disciple's minds were dull ( Matt. 15:16) we shouldn't expect anything better on our part if we aren't walking with our minds being constantly renewed. Also see 2 Cor. 3:14 on the nation of Israel having a veil.
COGIC SUNDAY SCHOOL BOOK 03/22/2025 LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA WEST ANGELES COGIC CHURCH CATHEDRAL
John 20:19-23 KJV
MY COGIC WORSHIP: 1 Corithians 15:3-4 KJV
I Worship God that is God the Father and the Son , Holy Spirit . God that gives life and words that make you rise becoming a living soul and to walk.God of salvation and meaning. God of peace. God that brings to attention, remission of Sins Correction makes get back on right path Person of your word.
Here is another time when Jesus was explaining his death and resurrection and they understood nothing.
Matthew 16:21-22
21From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
22Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
23But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
John 20:6-10
6Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie,
7And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself.
8Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed.
9For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.
10Then the disciples went away again unto their own home
The Disciples couldn't understand the future resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Luke 18:31-34
31Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
32For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
33And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
34And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.
I just thought of a serious question that I haven't seen posted on the site! Unless I missed it. I admit I don't read all the postings.
I haven't read or followed much of this ongoing discussion of the Trinity, mainly because my wife and I just got back from a 4 day cruise today.
Also this has been debated by the same participants several times over the years.
Which is fine.
I believe most agree that belief in the Trinity doctrine is not a "REQUIREMENT" for salvation.
However I've mentioned before and will say it again I believe one would come to that truth as he mature in the word. ORGANICALLY!
MY QUESTION.
Can a ungenerated person come to this truth?
That is a serious question that I never considered!!
You may not have to hold to it to be saved but can it be revealed apart from the Spirit of truth?
The Jews knew exactly what Jesus was saying! He was claiming to be God. However they couldn't recieve it!
It made them angry as it do some today even though it's clear in scripture.
John 20:30-31 reads "And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
BUT THESE ARE WRITTEN, THAT YE MIGHT BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS THE CHRIST, THE SON OF GOD; (Meaning GOD) and that believing ye might have life through his name.
This is written right after Thomas confession in verse 28 "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord AND "MY GOD".
This as well as much of John's Gospel is on the deity of Christ
John 1:1-3 "In beginning" I believe this is how it is written in the Greek. IN BEGINNING! There was no beginning!!
In beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
There are many verses in the Bible that show the human nature of Jesus. But also there are many verses that show the divine nature of Jesus. Some of them are many parts of John's gospel (especially the begining) such as John 1:30, John 2:19, John 3:13, John 8:58-59, John 10:30-33, John 14:9-10, John 14:23, John 20:28, Acts 20:28, Titus 2:13, 2 Peter 1:1, Hebrews 1:8, Matthew 1:22-23, 1 Cor 10:9, Isaiah 40:3, Malachi 3:1, Zechariah 11:12-13, Romans 9:1-5, and many other that I can not recall now. Jesus also accepted people to kneel infront of Him, something that is only permitted for God. Also compare Psalms 102:25-27 where it talks about God to Hebrews 1:10 where it talks about Jesus. Also compare Joel 3:5 to Acts 9:13. Compare Jeremiah 17:9 to Rev 2:23, etc.
So we have two kinds of scripture. One says that Jesus is human, the other says that Jesus is God. So what do we make out of these two? The obvious, that Jesus is the God, one person of the Godhead, who became man.
Lets think it in another way. We know that God loved people so much so that He sacrificed His own son for us. Now lets use another example. Suppose I love my brother and want to help Him. and the only way to help him is to give my own life for him. How does it seem to you that I would sacrifice instead of my own life, my son's life for Him to help Him? Why my son? And not myself? The most sensible thing is that I would sacrifice my own life for him, not somebody's else. That would be very egoistic. Somebody else to suffer for my intention to help somebody that I love? I think you can understand what I trying to say. So what did God do? He sacrificed Himself for us, one person out of the Godhead took on Him our nature, became a man and gave His life for us. So it is God's love that attracts people to Him. It wouldn't be love if He sacrificed somebody else, an innocent person's life, for his intention to save us. I hope I haven't done it so complicated to understand. GBU
Hello Timmywynne. There are many Scriptures that point to the Triune Nature of God, and specifically, that Jesus Christ & the Holy Spirit are revealed to us from the very Being of God the Father. When we think of the Trinity, we know we won't find that word in the Bible, as it is purely a descriptive word of what the Bible declares to be the fullness of God's Being. So to the verses you seek, and you will need to read them fully in your Bible.
Of Jesus Christ: Isaiah 9:6,7 (an Old Testament Prophecy); Micah 5:2 & John 1:1-14 (from everlasting); Matthew 1:22,23; Mark 2:5-7; John 8:56-58; John 16: 27,28; John 17:4,5; John 20:27,28; Philippians 2:5-7; Colossians 1:15-17; Colossians 2:9; 1 Timothy 3:16; Titus 3:13; Hebrews 1:1-3; Hebrews 1:8-10; 1 John 5:7; 1 John 5:20.
Of the Holy Spirit: Matthew 12:31; Luke 1:34,35; Luke 11:13; John 14:26; John 15:26; John 16:7-11; Acts 5:3; Acts 8:29; Acts 13:4; Romans 8:14; Romans 8:26,27; 1 Corinthians 2:10-14; 1 Corinthians 3:16; 1 Corinthians 6:19; 1 Corinthians 12:11; Ephesians 4:30; Hebrews 10:29; 2 Peter 1:21; 1 John 5:6.
The above are a few Scriptures that point to the deity of Jesus Christ & God's Spirit: all showing that they don't work independently from God, but have been sent out from God, from God's Being, to accomplish His Purposes in the world. And we know that Jesus, as the Word of God clothed with humanity, is the very expression of God to the world ( John 14:9; 1 Timothy 3:16; 1 John 4:2). Hope these will help you in your study of this very important doctrine. Blessings.
Thank you. I understand that many interpret the verse as Thomas refers to Jesus as God. However, there are other verses, one in the same chapter that offer additional perspectives. For instance, in John 20:17, Jesus tells Mary, "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God and your God." To me, the entirety of Scripture makes it clear that the Father is the one and only God, and Jesus is His Son, conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of Mary. I do not want to offend anyone, and I hope and pray that I do not.
The first Apostles Creed.
I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
and he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I hope you don't mind. Concerning the crucifixion and resurrection days, if we compare all the gospels, all four give the clearest truth.
In John 12:1-12, we learn that six days before Passover, Jesus visited the house of Mary, Martha, and Lazarus in Bethany. The following day, He rode into Jerusalem, five days before Passover. This event was significant because it coincided with the 10th of Nisan, the day the lambs were selected and held until the 14th when they would be sacrificed for Passover, the same time Jesus died on the cross, Exodus 12:1-14. These Passover lambs were eaten the night of the 15th the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread the day Israel went out of Egypt.
Sunday Matthew 21:1-17, Mark 11:1-11, Luke 19:28-22:7, and John 12:12-50.
Monday, Matthew 21:18-19Mark 11:12-19 This was the 11th, four days before Passover the 2nd day of the week.
Tuesday, Matthew 21:20 to 26:2 Mark 11:20 to 14:2 This was the 12th, three days before Passover, the third day of the week.
Wednesday, Matthew 26:6-16Mark 14:3-11Luke 22:1-6 This was the 13th, and at sunset is Passover day the 14th. The Last Supper, the arrest, sent to Pilot, the crucifixion, and placed in the tomb were all on the 14th, Passover day. Friday would be the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread.
Jesus was in the tomb Thur. Day, Fri, Night, Fri. Day, Sat. Night, Sat. Day, Sun. Night, three days, and three nights. Jesus rose on the first day of the week and fulfilled the Feast of First Fruits, Leviticus 23:10-14 This coincides with what Jesus told Mary, touch me not, He had not ascended to His Father, John 20:17. The Feast of First Fruits as we see is on the first day after the Sabbath after Passover Day.
If Jesus was crucified on Wednesday, the women could have gone to the tomb on Friday because Friday is a preparation day for the weekly Sabbath.
The Laws that a converted Israel would receive, would no longer be as those formerly written on stone, but now 'in fleshy tables of the heart' ( 2 Corinthians 3:3). The Old has decayed and vanished away, only because of Jesus & His institution of the New Covenant. Let us not abide by things that are from the old economy, as even now, priests still wear religious garb & mitres, with their incense lamps as did the Jewish priests of old, rather to embrace what God's Spirit has for us in our hearts & lives, never leading us into condemnation.
As for your reference to Matthew 12:36-42, I'm not going to debate that, for I believe as you do, in what Jesus said about His death & resurrection relating it to Jonah's entombment in the 'whale'. The issue is first with the references I gave earlier, viz Mark 16:1,2,9, with John 20:1 complementing it. If the two Marys came "very early in the morning on the first day of the week", & "it was still dark", that tells me that they had arrived at the sepulchre to anoint Jesus' Body before dawn broke on the first day of the week (Sunday). Yes, the Jewish Sunday started after sundown Sabbath, but it still was Sunday when morning broke. You stated: "The earliest they (the Marys) could come to the tomb and administer the spices was as Saturday ended that very evening and Sunday began to dawn, which occurs at SUNDOWN. So Mary came at sundown Saturday." If Saturday (Sabbath) ended in the evening, the dawn of Sunday was still 10-12 hours away; if a day dawns, it is when the sun begins to rise - the day cannot dawn straight after the sun sets the previous day. This shows that the women came up to 12 hours after the Sabbath Day ended (i.e. the next day, Sunday). So I don't get your timeline here.
And just a final personal, maybe rhetorical, question: do you consider yourself to be wholly subject to the New Covenant in Christ's Blood, or do you believe it is necessary to embrace both the Old & the New to be right before God?
36But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. 38Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 39But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. 41The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here. 42The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
So now, do you think that Jesus said what he did in idle fashion?
Jonah 1:17
"Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights."
As for what you posted, it is a misnomer. A day starts at evening and ends at evening. There is a mistranslation in scripture. It's not as the sun began to rise ....it's as the new day began to dawn or spring forth, or up. Mary came to the tomb as Saturday ended and Sunday began, which was SUNSET. When a new day begins!
The following verse is a more accurate description and translation.
John 20:1
"The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre."
Well Woe, we were still dealing with the Decalogue & its applicability to the Church (are we done with that?), so that is why I didn't want to side track towards the dates of the burial & resurrection of Jesus. But since you have brought it up, let's proceed.
I always begin with what we already know (from Scripture), and that is the Day of Christ's Resurrection. Mark 16:1,2,9: "And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun. Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils".
In these verses, we read that Jesus was resurrected early on the first day of the week (v9), that the two Marys would have rested on the Sabbath Day & prepared their spices (as you mentioned), and as soon as it was morning (actually, still dark - John 20:1) after the Sabbath, these women came to the sepulchre. Some have swapped the commas here, to read: "Now when Jesus was risen, early the first day of the week he appeared". Even if one does that, with the Jewish day reckoned from sundown to sundown, the Sabbath would have ended about eleven hours before, thus confirming that Jesus didn't arise from the dead on Sabbath Day, but on the first day of the week, Sunday. Onto Page 2.
Thanks for that quick reply brother Jesse, confirming & adding to my understanding of 1 Corinthians 16:22. And your reference to Romans 9:3, which I had forgotten about, gave strong support to the apostle's passion for the Gospel and willingness to become God's anathema & off scouring for the sake of the many destined for hell.
That Damascus Rd experience must have truly set his heart on fire for the Savior & for lost souls. He heard Jesus speak, he believed & went forth with a singular determination in his heart. We haven't seen with the physical eye or heard with the ear, yet with Spirit-given faith we ought to have the same heart & fervour for Jesus and those lost without Him: "blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed" ( John 20:29). Every blessing.
1 Corinthians 7:1 - Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
There are various commentaries that will tell you the different views about what the word touch means. It doesn't mean just to come in contact with somebody. In fact, the Greek word is the word HAPTO, and it means to cling or to be attached. As a reference, we can look at John 20:17, after Jesus rose from the dead and He said to Mary, "don't touch me." She was clinging to His ankles, and she wasn't going to let Him go.
He's saying that you have to stop clinging to me because I have not yet ascended up to my Father. So, it doesn't mean don't touch. It means don't fasten yourself onto something and not let go
1 Corinthians 7:3 - Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
He says let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence. In the Greek, it's that which is owing to her. So that which is owing to her, and likewise also the wife what is owing to the husband.
1 Corinthians 7:4 - The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.
The wife has not power, and that's literally the word authority. The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does: and likewise also the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.
Hitting at the very source, probably the biggest problem in a marriage relationship is when people play games with the physical side of the relationship. Paul says that is not to be because your body belongs to the partner for what satisfies him or her. And this so that a person can avoid fornication. If he or she is happy, they won't go looking around elsewhere. So, God has made that provision within the marriage relationship.
The simplicity that is in Jesus, 2 Corinthians 11:3.
John also confirmed this, he said there were many things Jesus said and did that were not written down, but John wrote this, John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
John 20:19 - Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
Then the same day at evening, so this is the same Sunday, what we call Easter or Resurrection. In the evening time being the first day of the week, and again we make reference to the first of the week days which is Sunday, when the doors were shut.
Now the word for shut in Greek comes from the word key, like to unlock a door. The reference here is the fact that they locked the doors.
They put a bar over the doors. And it tells us where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews. They said "They have killed Jesus. Certainly, if they find us, they are going to kill us too!" So, they locked the doors, they barred the doors for fear of the Jews, and Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said unto them, Peace be unto you.
Luke says they were scared half to death. They thought it was a phantom, a ghost. And that is why Jesus said peace be unto you. They were already afraid of the Jewish leaders coming to round them up. And so, when Jesus shows up, now they are seeing ghosts. Now the situation is getting pretty bad. But Jesus says peace be unto you. He didn't rebuke them!
John 20:21 - Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you:
In other words, the first time was to calm their fear. Now He is telling them "What I'm going to tell you, it's in peace. I am not here to rebuke you or do anything that you should be afraid of." Peace be unto you: for as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. The word send is in the Present Tense. "I am sending you out." It is the verb form of the word apostle, which John doesn't use in his gospel.
John 20:14 - And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.
And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and in the Greek text, the word for "standing" is in the Perfect Tense, which means He had been standing there the whole while. When she turned around that is when she noticed Him. But He was there ever since she came to the tomb door and looked in and began to talk to the angels. And so, she saw Jesus standing there, but she did not know that it was Jesus.
John 20:17 - Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Jesus said unto her, Touch me not. Now it is interesting what the text says. The word "touch" is the word HAPTO, and it means to fasten. It does not mean to touch, as in "Don't touch me, stay away from me!" It means don't fasten yourself to me. It is a Present Imperative, which indicates that she is already doing it. "Stop clinging to me" is what Jesus is saying.
In fact, in Matthew Chapter 28 Verse 9, Matthew tells us that she had a death grip on His ankles. She was not going to let Him out of her sight again! So, He wasn't telling her "Don't touch me." He was saying let go, do not cling to me, stop clinging to me.
John 19:6 - When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Take ye him, and crucify him: for I find no fault in him.
The word "him" is not in their chant. They are just going, crucify, crucify, crucify, crucify, over and over again and people are being worked up into a frenzy.
John 19:7 - The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.
Here's what it says in the Greek. It says, Son of God, not "the" Son of God, but just Son of God. That is a title. And to the Jews, it means God in the flesh. The word Son, HUIOUS, doesn't have anything to do with somebody who is born from a woman. This is somebody who's been placed in a position of inheritance.
He's the one that inherits all things from God. The word TEKNON, for a child who has been born, is never used of Jesus Christ. That is why when people say "Well if He is the Son of God, how can He be God? He's not a Son by birth. He is a Son in the Jewish social frame of mind of the receiver of the inheritance. The Jews knew what that meant. So, they came and said here's His title. He says He's Son of God.
John 20:1 - The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
It says, "the first day of the week," but I would like to share some technical things as to how this language works.
In the Greek text, it literally says, "the first of the Sabbath's," plural! In the scriptures, the Sabbath Day is singular and the weekdays are plural. So, you have the Sabbath Day, and then you have the Sabbath Days, which are used to denote the weekdays.
This is the first day of the week, Sunday. This Sunday is the first Sunday after Passover, which means the Sabbath of Passover has passed. The Sabbath of Saturday, the normal Sabbath, has passed. And now we are into Sunday.
Great Scriptures Everett that you have given to clearly show the the Nature of the Triune God & the Deity of Christ Who has come forth from (Gk. Ek: to come out of - not a separate a creation) the Father. If I might include these others in support of your list: Mark 2:5-7; John 16:28; John 17:5; John 20:27,28; Philippians 2:5-8. To deny these Scriptures, distorts the whole Character of God and dilutes His great sacrificing Love reaching out to & imploring sinful men to turn from sin unto the Love of God in Christ. We need to take all Scriptures into account or else our view will be lop-sided & erroneous. GBU.
How could Jesus have shared God's Glory before the creation of the worlds, if He only came as a Man over two millennia ago? Was Jesus wrong or misguided in His prayer? Or, have we somehow misunderstood this verse, which seems quite plainly given?
John 20:17 and 1 Corinthians 11:3 (& others): all showing Jesus' subordinate position to the Father, by virtue of His coming in the Flesh.
1 John 2:22. One can easily interpret this verse as given: 'if a person denies the Messiahship of Christ, then he denies/rejects the relationship of the Father to the Son'. But when we couple the same John writing, "And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world" ( 1 John 4:3), we see another view of his understanding.
What are the possible interpretations of this? There may be some who altogether deny the historical Jesus (though they would be few in number, leaning towards ignorance). Then there would be some who believe that Jesus did not come as a human at all, but as a 'phantom', or a vision/dream. This might be believed by some now, but certainly not to those in His days where He preached, showed compassion, touched & was touched physically by so many. So given that John here believes that Jesus' Life on Earth was not as some would proclaim, but rather that John is pointing his readers to this Jesus, Whom they have seen & touched, is not a mere man, but the One from God. The spirit that is not of God doesn't deny the reality of the historical Man Jesus, for "the devils believe, and tremble", but that spirit that is 'against Christ' will always move men to discard the Pre-existent Christ, not affording Him His full Deity & Glory. Onto Page 3.
Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
John 17:1-3 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
1 Corinthians 15:25,28 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
The Scriptures deny the legitimacy of the Shroud of Turin.
-- John 20:7 And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself.
The Shroud is a one piece woven cloth, Christ was not bury in a one piece linen cloth. His head was wraped in a separate "napkin" and was laid apart from the the burial shourd.
-- John 11:44 And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.
Lazarus was also buried the same.
-- 2 Corinthians 5:14-17 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again. 16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. 17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
With the Holy Spirit within us, we no longer live according to our sinful nature. We recognize that the flesh is inherently corrupt, so there's no need to judge or understand someone based on their outward, physical self-instead, we should connect with them on a spiritual level. God doesn't focus on the flesh, and neither should we. When sharing the gospel with those who are lost, their carnal side will always resist it. That's why we must appeal to their inner spirit, witnessing to that part of them and guiding them away from worldly desires.
Jesus didn't resurrect in a physical body but in a glorified, spiritual one. As believers filled with the Spirit, we eagerly await our own spiritual bodies. Though we haven't received them yet, we're already transformed-we're not who we once
If your "battle" is with believing that Jesus is God, may I suggest the following scriptures for your consideration:
Genesis 1:1 along with John 1:1-3, Revelation 19:13, Colossians 1:15-17, Matthew 1:23, John 10:30, John 14:9, Mark 2:5-7, John 8:58, John 20:28, Isaiah 9:6, Philippians 2:5-7, Colossians 2:9, 1 Timothy 3:16, Hebrews 1:8, 2 Peter 1:1, Revelation 1:8, John 5:18, 1 John 5:20, Luke 24:52, John 9:38, Acts 10:25-26, Titus 2:13, Hebrews 1:3, Revelation 22:13, Micah 5:2, John 17:5, John 1:14. There are more, but these should suffice.
You mention that "Christians say that there is no separation between Christ and God," and that the bible shows otherwise. Jesus said I and my Father are one, and He also said that if you have seen Me, you have seen the Father. This may not mean anything to you, but in the book of Hebrews, Jesus is described as the APOUGASMA (the out beam) of God's glory, God projecting Himself through the time/space factor in the person of Christ. Jesus Christ, being God, was never separated from the source. This is why Jesus can say if you have seen Me, you have seen the Father.
The best example I can give would be taking a flashlight in a dark room and shining it on a wall. The flashlight is the source, and the light is projected on the wall from the source. There is no separation unless the flashlight is turned off. Now, imagine the flashlight being God, and the light shining on the wall is Jesus, again, no separation. Jesus is said to be the true light which came down from heaven, the APOUGASMA of God.
If you are sincerely struggling with the deity of Jesus Christ (Him being God), I hope these scriptures I've provided might help. Also, if you would like, I can share my personal understanding on Matthew 26:39 and Luke 22:42 and why Christ would ask this.
If I may ask, are you a Christian? If so, who do you say Jesus is?
Faith is not dependent on evidences and proofs; it is purely a gift from God, irrespective of merit, intelligence or education. 1 Corinthians 2:5 ..That your faith should not stand (be) in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. 2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. Ephesians 2:8 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
It is natural to doubt. Even Apostle Thomas had doubts; he could not believe the other disciples until he had personal experience of the resurrected Christ! Personally, I do not think that Thomas believed after examining the crucifixion scar on Jesus' body; there were no marks at all, for a resurrected body cannot have blemishes and marks of the past. Jesus was only interacting with his human nature and raising him to the higher level of faith by referring to his words of unbelief. Thomas, then approached Jesus NOT to verify the crucifixion marks, but to confess him as his Lord! John 20: John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. I think, IF Thomas had searched His body for proof, he would have got disappointed! But Jesus did not let him fail; He wanted Thomas to believe in Him without seeing: That is Faith. (continued)
John 10:30 I and my Father are one. Should we not consider other verses, John 17:11, John 17:20-23, John 14:28. These verses, Numbers 23:19, John 20:17, 2 Corinthians 11:31, Ephesians 1:3, Ephesians 4:4-6, and 1 Peter 1:3. Then, in Revelation 21:22-23 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. 23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
God wanted to be with His people, He first instructed Moses to build a tabernacle, which was symbolic of Jesus. Jesus was born without sin, not by man but of the seed of a woman whose Father was God. God could dwell in Him. Like the tabernacle, Jesus was holy, not defiled. Jesus became the light of the world, the Shekinah Glory manifested in Him and God again dwelt with man in the flesh of Jesus, to me that is John 1:14.
I do thank you for your reply, and I hope and pray I do not offend anyone who reads what I post; our discussions should only inspire us to study, not to win or demean, if so, we all lose.
I will stop here; I do not want to get ahead of Jesse's work in Revelation. You are always welcome to reply to me GiGi.
God bless,
RLW
using the eyes to understand something
is the easy way
Not seeing and believing using the heart/intuition to understand something
is the gifted way
John 3:3 "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
John 20:22"And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:"
Luke 17:21"Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."
John 17:1-5,
All pre-existed in the mind, thoughts, reason, and doctrine of our God the Father, the definition of logos. Revelation 3:14, the beginning of the creation of God, the starting point, the predetermined position of authority that God would give to His Son at the point in time that God planned before creation.
Jesus understood all the Scriptures that foretold the glory destined for Him in the mind of God the Father before creation. God's thoughts and plans began with Jesus, who became the tabernacle of God in flesh on earth. Through Him, eternal life can be bestowed upon all who believe in Him. Every word Jesus spoke was God's word: John 7:15-16, John 12:49, John 14:24.
How should we understand verse 3? Jesus, in prayer to the Father, states that eternal life is dependent on knowing the Father, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, the Messiah whom God sent.
Jesus knew who He was. He said in John 20:17, He had a Father and a God. Jesus is praying to His Father, He had no power of himself; all he did and said was the Father working in him. Jesus perfectly submitted to God's will by choice and obedience; the glory Jesus was praying for was yet to be realized, only in the knowledge He had from Scripture and the Holy Spirit He was anointed with, without measure of what it would be.
We must confess Jesus is the Son of God.
I am sorry for this long post; read it, study it, or ignore it. I love you guys.
God bless,
RLW
The time of Christ had the religious leadership and scribes as a sort of unstable partnership with the rest of the Roman society. Christ was the polarizing force so that the Herodians; for instance were in league with the Pharisees when it came to crucifying the Son of God. Such situations made for strange bedfellows it seems.
Such is a warning to exercise caution with too much assimilation with any political party; no matter how much they may seem to or claim to adhere to our Christian values. We can vote for or support a candidate without worshipping them; or selling ourselves out to a cause at the expense of the eternal mission for the Kingdom of God which we are as the true church called and commissioned for.
It is an interesting thought in light of the fact that we don't see yet believe today ( John 20:29). The Lord may withhold miracles to avoid having someone commit this unpardonable sin; but that could be conjecture on my part. It is certain though the hearts of many; in fact most were indeed blinded to recognize when their Messiah came whether it was by ignoring the prophecies of His first coming and being obsessed with Him coming back to smite the nations; or just thinking He was a great teacher; or not giving up all to follow the Lord and conveniently downplaying who He was or the fact that we have to surrender ALL to follow Him and die to our old self.
I have also said before that whenever there are true miracles today you would expect as with any Godly people in Christ to be persecuted. You also would expect the enemy to produce similar but false effects along with the many false Christs to follow whenever the Lord is truly at work. This is why true doctrine is so important. If the Disciple's minds were dull ( Matt. 15:16) we shouldn't expect anything better on our part if we aren't walking with our minds being constantly renewed. Also see 2 Cor. 3:14 on the nation of Israel having a veil.
John 20:19-23 KJV
MY COGIC WORSHIP: 1 Corithians 15:3-4 KJV
I Worship God that is God the Father and the Son , Holy Spirit . God that gives life and words that make you rise becoming a living soul and to walk.God of salvation and meaning. God of peace. God that brings to attention, remission of Sins Correction makes get back on right path Person of your word.
A bit of grk grammar.
In grk, unlike in English, a definite article is always placed before nouns. So it is always "the God" and never just "God".
John 20:28 in grk "Ho kurios mou (the Lord of mine) kai ho Theos mou (and the God of mine)".
Great verse!
Hebrews 1:8. "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Here's what I gathered from further study on this verse.
The Greek word for God in this verse is "Ho Theos" It is equivalent to Elohim in Hebrew'
Ho Theos is also seen in John 20:28 "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. (Ho Theos)
The definite article "ho" () is placed before "theos" to emphasize that God is one and unique, and not just one of many gods.
By the way I visited that Church I mentioned to you a couple weeks ago and I enjoyed the fellowship.
Thanks for your prayers and God bless.
Here is another time when Jesus was explaining his death and resurrection and they understood nothing.
Matthew 16:21-22
21From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
22Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
23But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
John 20:6-10
6Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie,
7And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself.
8Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed.
9For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.
10Then the disciples went away again unto their own home
The Disciples couldn't understand the future resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Luke 18:31-34
31Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
32For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
33And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
34And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.
Ray , in Christ Jesus 1 Corinthians 15:1-4
Good Evening everyone.
I just thought of a serious question that I haven't seen posted on the site! Unless I missed it. I admit I don't read all the postings.
I haven't read or followed much of this ongoing discussion of the Trinity, mainly because my wife and I just got back from a 4 day cruise today.
Also this has been debated by the same participants several times over the years.
Which is fine.
I believe most agree that belief in the Trinity doctrine is not a "REQUIREMENT" for salvation.
However I've mentioned before and will say it again I believe one would come to that truth as he mature in the word. ORGANICALLY!
MY QUESTION.
Can a ungenerated person come to this truth?
That is a serious question that I never considered!!
You may not have to hold to it to be saved but can it be revealed apart from the Spirit of truth?
The Jews knew exactly what Jesus was saying! He was claiming to be God. However they couldn't recieve it!
It made them angry as it do some today even though it's clear in scripture.
John 20:30-31 reads "And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
BUT THESE ARE WRITTEN, THAT YE MIGHT BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS THE CHRIST, THE SON OF GOD; (Meaning GOD) and that believing ye might have life through his name.
This is written right after Thomas confession in verse 28 "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord AND "MY GOD".
This as well as much of John's Gospel is on the deity of Christ
John 1:1-3 "In beginning" I believe this is how it is written in the Greek. IN BEGINNING! There was no beginning!!
In beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
There's no other scripture needed!
More on the topic.
There are many verses in the Bible that show the human nature of Jesus. But also there are many verses that show the divine nature of Jesus. Some of them are many parts of John's gospel (especially the begining) such as John 1:30, John 2:19, John 3:13, John 8:58-59, John 10:30-33, John 14:9-10, John 14:23, John 20:28, Acts 20:28, Titus 2:13, 2 Peter 1:1, Hebrews 1:8, Matthew 1:22-23, 1 Cor 10:9, Isaiah 40:3, Malachi 3:1, Zechariah 11:12-13, Romans 9:1-5, and many other that I can not recall now. Jesus also accepted people to kneel infront of Him, something that is only permitted for God. Also compare Psalms 102:25-27 where it talks about God to Hebrews 1:10 where it talks about Jesus. Also compare Joel 3:5 to Acts 9:13. Compare Jeremiah 17:9 to Rev 2:23, etc.
So we have two kinds of scripture. One says that Jesus is human, the other says that Jesus is God. So what do we make out of these two? The obvious, that Jesus is the God, one person of the Godhead, who became man.
Lets think it in another way. We know that God loved people so much so that He sacrificed His own son for us. Now lets use another example. Suppose I love my brother and want to help Him. and the only way to help him is to give my own life for him. How does it seem to you that I would sacrifice instead of my own life, my son's life for Him to help Him? Why my son? And not myself? The most sensible thing is that I would sacrifice my own life for him, not somebody's else. That would be very egoistic. Somebody else to suffer for my intention to help somebody that I love? I think you can understand what I trying to say. So what did God do? He sacrificed Himself for us, one person out of the Godhead took on Him our nature, became a man and gave His life for us. So it is God's love that attracts people to Him. It wouldn't be love if He sacrificed somebody else, an innocent person's life, for his intention to save us. I hope I haven't done it so complicated to understand. GBU
Of Jesus Christ: Isaiah 9:6,7 (an Old Testament Prophecy); Micah 5:2 & John 1:1-14 (from everlasting); Matthew 1:22,23; Mark 2:5-7; John 8:56-58; John 16: 27,28; John 17:4,5; John 20:27,28; Philippians 2:5-7; Colossians 1:15-17; Colossians 2:9; 1 Timothy 3:16; Titus 3:13; Hebrews 1:1-3; Hebrews 1:8-10; 1 John 5:7; 1 John 5:20.
Of the Holy Spirit: Matthew 12:31; Luke 1:34,35; Luke 11:13; John 14:26; John 15:26; John 16:7-11; Acts 5:3; Acts 8:29; Acts 13:4; Romans 8:14; Romans 8:26,27; 1 Corinthians 2:10-14; 1 Corinthians 3:16; 1 Corinthians 6:19; 1 Corinthians 12:11; Ephesians 4:30; Hebrews 10:29; 2 Peter 1:21; 1 John 5:6.
The above are a few Scriptures that point to the deity of Jesus Christ & God's Spirit: all showing that they don't work independently from God, but have been sent out from God, from God's Being, to accomplish His Purposes in the world. And we know that Jesus, as the Word of God clothed with humanity, is the very expression of God to the world ( John 14:9; 1 Timothy 3:16; 1 John 4:2). Hope these will help you in your study of this very important doctrine. Blessings.
Thank you. I understand that many interpret the verse as Thomas refers to Jesus as God. However, there are other verses, one in the same chapter that offer additional perspectives. For instance, in John 20:17, Jesus tells Mary, "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God and your God." To me, the entirety of Scripture makes it clear that the Father is the one and only God, and Jesus is His Son, conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of Mary. I do not want to offend anyone, and I hope and pray that I do not.
The first Apostles Creed.
I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
and he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic* Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting.
*Catholic means universal.
God bless,
RLW
I was reading the gospel of John just now and I noticed:
John 20:28, "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God."
I hope you don't mind. Concerning the crucifixion and resurrection days, if we compare all the gospels, all four give the clearest truth.
In John 12:1-12, we learn that six days before Passover, Jesus visited the house of Mary, Martha, and Lazarus in Bethany. The following day, He rode into Jerusalem, five days before Passover. This event was significant because it coincided with the 10th of Nisan, the day the lambs were selected and held until the 14th when they would be sacrificed for Passover, the same time Jesus died on the cross, Exodus 12:1-14. These Passover lambs were eaten the night of the 15th the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread the day Israel went out of Egypt.
Sunday Matthew 21:1-17, Mark 11:1-11, Luke 19:28-22:7, and John 12:12-50.
Monday, Matthew 21:18-19 Mark 11:12-19 This was the 11th, four days before Passover the 2nd day of the week.
Tuesday, Matthew 21:20 to 26:2 Mark 11:20 to 14:2 This was the 12th, three days before Passover, the third day of the week.
Wednesday, Matthew 26:6-16 Mark 14:3-11 Luke 22:1-6 This was the 13th, and at sunset is Passover day the 14th. The Last Supper, the arrest, sent to Pilot, the crucifixion, and placed in the tomb were all on the 14th, Passover day. Friday would be the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread.
Jesus was in the tomb Thur. Day, Fri, Night, Fri. Day, Sat. Night, Sat. Day, Sun. Night, three days, and three nights. Jesus rose on the first day of the week and fulfilled the Feast of First Fruits, Leviticus 23:10-14 This coincides with what Jesus told Mary, touch me not, He had not ascended to His Father, John 20:17. The Feast of First Fruits as we see is on the first day after the Sabbath after Passover Day.
If Jesus was crucified on Wednesday, the women could have gone to the tomb on Friday because Friday is a preparation day for the weekly Sabbath.
God bless,
RLW
The Laws that a converted Israel would receive, would no longer be as those formerly written on stone, but now 'in fleshy tables of the heart' ( 2 Corinthians 3:3). The Old has decayed and vanished away, only because of Jesus & His institution of the New Covenant. Let us not abide by things that are from the old economy, as even now, priests still wear religious garb & mitres, with their incense lamps as did the Jewish priests of old, rather to embrace what God's Spirit has for us in our hearts & lives, never leading us into condemnation.
As for your reference to Matthew 12:36-42, I'm not going to debate that, for I believe as you do, in what Jesus said about His death & resurrection relating it to Jonah's entombment in the 'whale'. The issue is first with the references I gave earlier, viz Mark 16:1,2,9, with John 20:1 complementing it. If the two Marys came "very early in the morning on the first day of the week", & "it was still dark", that tells me that they had arrived at the sepulchre to anoint Jesus' Body before dawn broke on the first day of the week (Sunday). Yes, the Jewish Sunday started after sundown Sabbath, but it still was Sunday when morning broke. You stated: "The earliest they (the Marys) could come to the tomb and administer the spices was as Saturday ended that very evening and Sunday began to dawn, which occurs at SUNDOWN. So Mary came at sundown Saturday." If Saturday (Sabbath) ended in the evening, the dawn of Sunday was still 10-12 hours away; if a day dawns, it is when the sun begins to rise - the day cannot dawn straight after the sun sets the previous day. This shows that the women came up to 12 hours after the Sabbath Day ended (i.e. the next day, Sunday). So I don't get your timeline here.
And just a final personal, maybe rhetorical, question: do you consider yourself to be wholly subject to the New Covenant in Christ's Blood, or do you believe it is necessary to embrace both the Old & the New to be right before God?
Matthew 12:39 Context
36But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. 38Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 39But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. 41The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here. 42The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
So now, do you think that Jesus said what he did in idle fashion?
Jonah 1:17
"Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights."
As for what you posted, it is a misnomer. A day starts at evening and ends at evening. There is a mistranslation in scripture. It's not as the sun began to rise ....it's as the new day began to dawn or spring forth, or up. Mary came to the tomb as Saturday ended and Sunday began, which was SUNSET. When a new day begins!
The following verse is a more accurate description and translation.
John 20:1
"The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre."
Well Woe, we were still dealing with the Decalogue & its applicability to the Church (are we done with that?), so that is why I didn't want to side track towards the dates of the burial & resurrection of Jesus. But since you have brought it up, let's proceed.
I always begin with what we already know (from Scripture), and that is the Day of Christ's Resurrection. Mark 16:1,2,9: "And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun. Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils".
In these verses, we read that Jesus was resurrected early on the first day of the week (v9), that the two Marys would have rested on the Sabbath Day & prepared their spices (as you mentioned), and as soon as it was morning (actually, still dark - John 20:1) after the Sabbath, these women came to the sepulchre. Some have swapped the commas here, to read: "Now when Jesus was risen, early the first day of the week he appeared". Even if one does that, with the Jewish day reckoned from sundown to sundown, the Sabbath would have ended about eleven hours before, thus confirming that Jesus didn't arise from the dead on Sabbath Day, but on the first day of the week, Sunday. Onto Page 2.
That Damascus Rd experience must have truly set his heart on fire for the Savior & for lost souls. He heard Jesus speak, he believed & went forth with a singular determination in his heart. We haven't seen with the physical eye or heard with the ear, yet with Spirit-given faith we ought to have the same heart & fervour for Jesus and those lost without Him: "blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed" ( John 20:29). Every blessing.
1 Corinthians 7:1 - Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
There are various commentaries that will tell you the different views about what the word touch means. It doesn't mean just to come in contact with somebody. In fact, the Greek word is the word HAPTO, and it means to cling or to be attached. As a reference, we can look at John 20:17, after Jesus rose from the dead and He said to Mary, "don't touch me." She was clinging to His ankles, and she wasn't going to let Him go.
He's saying that you have to stop clinging to me because I have not yet ascended up to my Father. So, it doesn't mean don't touch. It means don't fasten yourself onto something and not let go
1 Corinthians 7:3 - Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
He says let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence. In the Greek, it's that which is owing to her. So that which is owing to her, and likewise also the wife what is owing to the husband.
1 Corinthians 7:4 - The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.
The wife has not power, and that's literally the word authority. The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does: and likewise also the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.
Hitting at the very source, probably the biggest problem in a marriage relationship is when people play games with the physical side of the relationship. Paul says that is not to be because your body belongs to the partner for what satisfies him or her. And this so that a person can avoid fornication. If he or she is happy, they won't go looking around elsewhere. So, God has made that provision within the marriage relationship.
The simplicity that is in Jesus, 2 Corinthians 11:3.
John also confirmed this, he said there were many things Jesus said and did that were not written down, but John wrote this, John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
God bless,
RLW
John 20:19 - Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
Then the same day at evening, so this is the same Sunday, what we call Easter or Resurrection. In the evening time being the first day of the week, and again we make reference to the first of the week days which is Sunday, when the doors were shut.
Now the word for shut in Greek comes from the word key, like to unlock a door. The reference here is the fact that they locked the doors.
They put a bar over the doors. And it tells us where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews. They said "They have killed Jesus. Certainly, if they find us, they are going to kill us too!" So, they locked the doors, they barred the doors for fear of the Jews, and Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said unto them, Peace be unto you.
Luke says they were scared half to death. They thought it was a phantom, a ghost. And that is why Jesus said peace be unto you. They were already afraid of the Jewish leaders coming to round them up. And so, when Jesus shows up, now they are seeing ghosts. Now the situation is getting pretty bad. But Jesus says peace be unto you. He didn't rebuke them!
John 20:21 - Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you:
In other words, the first time was to calm their fear. Now He is telling them "What I'm going to tell you, it's in peace. I am not here to rebuke you or do anything that you should be afraid of." Peace be unto you: for as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. The word send is in the Present Tense. "I am sending you out." It is the verb form of the word apostle, which John doesn't use in his gospel.
John 20:14 - And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.
And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and in the Greek text, the word for "standing" is in the Perfect Tense, which means He had been standing there the whole while. When she turned around that is when she noticed Him. But He was there ever since she came to the tomb door and looked in and began to talk to the angels. And so, she saw Jesus standing there, but she did not know that it was Jesus.
John 20:17 - Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Jesus said unto her, Touch me not. Now it is interesting what the text says. The word "touch" is the word HAPTO, and it means to fasten. It does not mean to touch, as in "Don't touch me, stay away from me!" It means don't fasten yourself to me. It is a Present Imperative, which indicates that she is already doing it. "Stop clinging to me" is what Jesus is saying.
In fact, in Matthew Chapter 28 Verse 9, Matthew tells us that she had a death grip on His ankles. She was not going to let Him out of her sight again! So, He wasn't telling her "Don't touch me." He was saying let go, do not cling to me, stop clinging to me.
John 19:6 - When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Take ye him, and crucify him: for I find no fault in him.
The word "him" is not in their chant. They are just going, crucify, crucify, crucify, crucify, over and over again and people are being worked up into a frenzy.
John 19:7 - The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.
Here's what it says in the Greek. It says, Son of God, not "the" Son of God, but just Son of God. That is a title. And to the Jews, it means God in the flesh. The word Son, HUIOUS, doesn't have anything to do with somebody who is born from a woman. This is somebody who's been placed in a position of inheritance.
He's the one that inherits all things from God. The word TEKNON, for a child who has been born, is never used of Jesus Christ. That is why when people say "Well if He is the Son of God, how can He be God? He's not a Son by birth. He is a Son in the Jewish social frame of mind of the receiver of the inheritance. The Jews knew what that meant. So, they came and said here's His title. He says He's Son of God.
John 20:1 - The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
It says, "the first day of the week," but I would like to share some technical things as to how this language works.
In the Greek text, it literally says, "the first of the Sabbath's," plural! In the scriptures, the Sabbath Day is singular and the weekdays are plural. So, you have the Sabbath Day, and then you have the Sabbath Days, which are used to denote the weekdays.
This is the first day of the week, Sunday. This Sunday is the first Sunday after Passover, which means the Sabbath of Passover has passed. The Sabbath of Saturday, the normal Sabbath, has passed. And now we are into Sunday.
How could Jesus have shared God's Glory before the creation of the worlds, if He only came as a Man over two millennia ago? Was Jesus wrong or misguided in His prayer? Or, have we somehow misunderstood this verse, which seems quite plainly given?
John 20:17 and 1 Corinthians 11:3 (& others): all showing Jesus' subordinate position to the Father, by virtue of His coming in the Flesh.
1 John 2:22. One can easily interpret this verse as given: 'if a person denies the Messiahship of Christ, then he denies/rejects the relationship of the Father to the Son'. But when we couple the same John writing, "And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world" ( 1 John 4:3), we see another view of his understanding.
What are the possible interpretations of this? There may be some who altogether deny the historical Jesus (though they would be few in number, leaning towards ignorance). Then there would be some who believe that Jesus did not come as a human at all, but as a 'phantom', or a vision/dream. This might be believed by some now, but certainly not to those in His days where He preached, showed compassion, touched & was touched physically by so many. So given that John here believes that Jesus' Life on Earth was not as some would proclaim, but rather that John is pointing his readers to this Jesus, Whom they have seen & touched, is not a mere man, but the One from God. The spirit that is not of God doesn't deny the reality of the historical Man Jesus, for "the devils believe, and tremble", but that spirit that is 'against Christ' will always move men to discard the Pre-existent Christ, not affording Him His full Deity & Glory. Onto Page 3.
Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
John 17:1-3 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
1 Corinthians 15:25,28 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
God bless,
RLW