John
King James Version (KJV)
Discuss John 15 Page 3
Viewing page: 3 of 26
< Previous Discussion Page Next Discussion Page >
Do you have a Bible comment or question?
Posting comments is currently unavailable due to high demand on the server.
Please check back in an hour or more. Thank you for your patience!
Rather search for a debate to win on this topic eternal security, Let's join in bringing people to Christ and give them the Gospel that saves!
If you can lose it, you have to first get it.
There's many that will be deceived that's on both sides of that argument.
That's one of the problems with the Church today, There's a lack of preaching the Gospel and a great interest in debating.
Why not tell someone how to be saved and let them come to their own mind whether they can lose it.
God bless.
John 15:2: "Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit."
I heard so many people saying that salvation cannot be lost. I think there is a necessity to define what "lost" means. Does it mean losing the communion with the Lord on this earth? Or does it mean going to hell after death? In my argument, I have chosen the latter definition, losing salvation = going to hell after death. If one finishes up not making it to heaven, it means the person has lost his salvation because the goal of salvation is to live where Jesus is ( John 14:3)
1. Who are the branches Jesus spoke about? The believers, here Jesus was not talking about non-believers (because they are not "branches").
2. Two types of branches: Branches that abide in Jesus, and branches that do not abide in Him, meaning believers who abide in Jesus, and believers who do not. Those who abide bear good fruit, but those who do not abide bear no fruit.
3. Note that there is a difference between accepting Jesus and abiding in Him. Some people accept Jesus but do not ABIDE in Him, meaning that they do not obey and completely surrender to Him in their journey.
4. Those people (who believed at first, but did not abide in Him later) are the branches that do not abide in Jesus, and therefore, they will be cut off.
Conclusion: It is a big mistake to believe that one cannot lose salvation once saved. Philippians 2:12-13 said, "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you..." If salvation is "granted" once, why did the Apostle Paul say we should work with "fear" and "trembling"?
I Corinthians 9:27: "But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." Look at the last word of the verse. "CASTAWAY", meaning losing salvation.
Brethren, Let's walk in holiness.
SolaScrip,
True Christ Followers will be obedient to all of God's 10 Commandments as taught by Jesus in the New Testament."
Well, God's 10 Commandments are identical to Christ's Commandments. Christ didn't change, minimize or abbreviate them in any way. Christ is the Creator of all things and He created the Commandments - there would be no reason for Him to change or rescind any of them.
Christ speaks of obeying the Law, the 10 Commandments, just as they are taught by the scribes and Pharisees in Matt. 23:1-3. He says to "do as they say, but not as they do" because the teachers of the Law at that time were all hypocrites. They taught the 10 Commandments, but kept none of them. That passage proves that Jesus taught the literal keeping of the 10 Commandments, not just the essence, or spirit, of them in our hearts, etc.
Jesus stated, as you pointed out, that He kept all of the Father's 10 Commandments physically when He declared it in John 15:10.
We see that 1 John makes clear that we are to live as Jesus lived, obeying what He obeyed, in 1 John 2:6. That does not support the modern popular teaching that we are only to obey them in spirit. And if Jesus had any intention of teaching that Christians did not need to keep them literally, we would not have the record of the disciples keeping the Saturday Sabbath immediately after Christ's death on the Cross in Luke 23:54-56. We also would not see Paul being labeled by the elders as a "Keeper of the Law" in Acts 21:24.
"IF a Christian is filled with God's Holy Spirit they will naturally be following all of God's/Jesus Commandments."
I would agree with this, but that just means that the vast majority of professed Christians today are not filled with the Holy Spirit because most Christians do not obey the 10 Commandments.
Jesus says that it is the keeping of the 10 Commandments that is pre-requisite for receiving 'HIM' as the Holy Spirit in John 14:21.
SolaScrip,
True Christ Followers will be obedient to all of God's 10 Commandments as taught by Jesus in the New Testament."
Well, God's 10 Commandments are identical to Christ's Commandments. Christ didn't change, minimize or abbreviate them in any way. Christ speaks of obeying the Law, the 10 Commandments, just as they are taught by the scribes and Pharisees in Matt. 23:1-3. He says to "do as they say, but not as they do" because the teachers of the Law at that time were all hypocrites. They taught the 10 Commandments, but kept none of them. That passage proves that Jesus taught the physical keeping of the 10 Commandments, not just the essence, or spirit, of them in our hearts, etc.
Jesus stated, as you pointed out, that He kept all of the Father's 10 Commandments physically when He declared it in John 15:10.
We see that 1 John makes clear that we are to live as Jesus lived, obeying what He obeyed, in 1 John 2:6. That does not support the modern popular teaching that we are only to obey them in spirit. And if Jesus had any intention of teaching that Christians did not need to keep them literally, we would not have the record of the disciples keeping the Saturday Sabbath immediately after Christ's death on the Cross in Luke 23:54-56. We also would not see Paul being labeled by the elders as a "Keeper of the Law" in Acts 21:24.
"IF a Christian is filled with God's Holy Spirit they will naturally be following all of God's/Jesus Commandments."
I would agree with this, but that just means that the vast majority of professed Christians today are not filled with the Holy Spirit because most Christians do not obey the 10 Commandments.
Jesus says that it is the keeping of the 10 Commandments that is pre-requisite for receiving 'HIM' as the Holy Spirit in John 14:21.
True Christ Followers will be obedient to all of God's 10 Commandments as taught by Jesus in the New Testament.
Luke 9:23"And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me."
John 14:15"If ye love me, keep my commandments."
Keeping God's 10 Commandments - plus the additional commandment that Jesus emphasized - to Love each other.
John 15:10 "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love."
Jesus warns all of us that we will not enter into Salvation without keeping God's Commandments.
Revelation 22:14 "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."
IF a Christian is filled with God's Holy Spirit they will naturally be following all of God's/Jesus Commandments.
It's IMPOSSIBLE to live a worldly life and be a Christ follower.
Happy Sabbath Day!
Part two
What does it mean to believe? What is the evidence that we believe? As Paul said, it is like running a race, when we start this race, we believe we are going to finish, and with God's Spirit we have all the determination and motivation we are not only going to finish this race we are going to win this race.
We are saved! We are being saved! We shall be saved! When we start, are all our sins forgiven, our past, present, and our future sins the moment we accept Jesus Christ as our Savior and are baptized? Is our salvation guaranteed and we cannot lose it or fall out of grace regardless?
We are saved. Eph. 2:5 When we accept the gospel and are baptized our sins are blotted out, Isaiah 44:22 Acts 3:19 and we become a child/son/daughter of God, John 1:12 we are justified, made righteous by the blood of Christ and the Holy Spirit dwells in us, and now we begin a relationship through God's Spirit, and God and Jesus abide in us, 2 John 1:9. This is the start of the race, the beginning of our salvation.
We are being saved. Philippians 1:6 Hearing the Word one believes and is baptized into Christ they are made clean (justification) the work of grace, and the Lord will continue working in us until He returns if we abide in Him John 15:3-5. How does God complete his good work in us? Testing James 1:2-4, chastising Heb. 12:6-7 Our relationship. If we abide in Him, Jesus, and God abides in us. The branches bear the fruit of the vine, the vine produces the fruit not us/branch, sanctification. We are running the race Philippians 2:12
We shall be saved. Redemption and glorification. Our full salvation comes at the end, when Jesus returns. Luke 21:28 "being now justified" We started the race. We are being saved, "being reconciled" we are running the race, 2 Cor. 5:18. We shall be saved at the end of the race. Romans 13:11.
See part three.
Part 4.
PENTECOST.
This is the beginning of the Christ church, and the Gospel first went out to the Jews, Peter was talking to the local crowd. "ALL Jews" Acts 2:5 "And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Also Acts 2:22 and Acts 2:36.
They were celebrating Shavuot-the Feast of Weeks-also known as Hag Ha Katzir, the Feast of Harvest, and known to most of us as the Feast of Pentecost. It is worthy to note that this feast was also one of three which was important for every able-bodied male to attend in Jerusalem.
Peter was letting them know that they crucified their king and Messiah.
Then in Acts 2:37 it's important to notice their reaction and what they asked; (Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, WHAT SHALL WE DO?)
In verse 38 Peter answers them; Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
This repentance was to turn from Judaism and be Identified with Christ.
They were pricked in their hearts shows a stone lifted that they stumbled over. Their baptism was their profession of faith. They were baptized by the Holyspirit during this process.
John 10:7-10 you see the Lord is calling the Jews out of Judaism.
In John 15:1 Jesus says I am the TRUE vine or "Genuine" vine. This is contrary to Israel being the degenerate vine seen in Jeremiah 2:21. John the Baptist came to Prepare the way for Lord, John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. This transition period went on throughout the early church.
They were to turn from Judaism and believe on Christ as mentioned in John 6:29.
Peter and the rest of the disciples was told to go Jerusalem to wait on power from on high. When they received that power, they begun to do the work of God.
See Part 5.
The beauty of the cross is perhaps no better described than in Isaiah 52:14. His appearance or "visage" was so marred from the beatings and other injuries before the crucifixion that Jesus was hardly recognizable as a man. But by His stripes; we are healed ( Isaiah 53:5 just a few verses later). He has brought us beauty from ashes ( Isaiah 61:3) which in context means Israel will have restitution after suffering judgment. But God in the flesh resulted not in admiration but in a man of sorrows acquainted with grief ( Isaiah 53:3).
God's awe inspiring attributes are seen in the visions of the Lord as seen by Isaiah 6; Ezekiel 1:22 and associated verses in Revelation 15:2; etal; and Daniel 10:6; etal). The true beauty of God; of course ties in with His selflessness; agape love and other characteristics that are above storge; Philleo and eros type of human love. Satan himself was a most beautiful creation as Lucifer ( Ezekiel 28:12) UNTIL he fell. Now the beauty is vanity as it is with any fallen creature who pride has allowed to contaminate. God Himself deserves worship and is not being arrogant in stating this desire but there are no verses I am aware of that state God is PROUD of being the God of all creation; He is supreme and in that sense better than anyone else; but He calls His followers by name and "friends" ( John 15:15). This makes Him the perfect Father.
God created all things for His good pleasure including man ( Revelation 4:11). No doubt Adam and Eve in a sinless state were beautiful; and perhaps still externally appeared that way after the fall. All things were fearfully and wonderfully made ( Psalm 139:14) but man has sought out many inventions (see Ecclesiastes 7:29). 1 Chronicles 16:27 talks of the majesty of God which no doubt incorporates beauty as seen in the creation. This makes man without excuse; as Romans 1 and Psalm 19 make clear.
God's beauty is more than skin deep and indescribable as all other traits.
"And there was not a man to till the ground./But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground"
The Spirit is creating a spiritual space as an author does with words. However fantastical the subject matter is the author employs words as bricks and the reader suspends his disbelief in order to enter therein. The Spirit is here presenting a spiritual space. What God demands from you is no different than what you wholeheartedly give to a human author, say Dean Swift writing Gulliver's travel adventures. Does anyone pick a quarrel with him because no such kingdom of Lilliput exists? Why on earth a rational man would deny God the same benefit of doubt? Before approaching the God document the rule for a believer is simple: first know your enemy. He simply pulls wool over you lest you should know the truth and make you free of Satan the father of lies. "But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: [4] In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."(2 Co.4:3-4)
God blessed man (1:28) Be fruitful is part of it and subdue it is what the Son signifies. God blesses man in his Son. It is what we read in John 15:1-5 The true Vine discourse of Jesus, "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it:" This is not what find we at present. Man claims his reason be all. If so what worth is his rational faculties without God?
The earth abides forever because the fulness in Son creates blessedness in all things, body spirit and soul and it is what we shall examine now.
Greetings in Christ JESUS
Unfortunately the translation has caused centuries of a great confusion about the identification of the Holy Spirit who is not a "ghost" or "Ghost", but a person, and as a person he is the lesser among the three- John 15:26 combined with John 16:12-15.
I must say that the person of Holy Spirit does not accept being called by this undesirable, unpleasant, inconvenient nickname, in fact such translation sounds as a mockery, it's terrible, very terrible.
Hope that GOD forgives the author(s) of such translation that has caused great and secular confusion for centuries, I should believe that this was not the translators' intention, of course.
This specific trnslation was/ is not good. Times ago I had a short debate about it in the site denominated "purebible".
God bless
2 Timothy 2:21 shows that we can clean ourselves so that we are not just vessels of clay but can be vessels of honor. Jesus tells us that he purges branches to produce more fruit ( John 15:2). We thus face that the lost are nothing but dead branches or profane vessels but we can through sanctification work towards purification and honor. We can perhaps see this also with the parable of the sower where some have the thorns of worldly cares snuff them out. ( Mark 4:18-19). A truly saved individual will pass the test of the trials which God places to test His own (see 1 Peter 1:7).
To succeed we need to be hidden in Christ ( Colossians 3:3) and truly be dead in Christ. Our old nature is impossible to put to death otherwise and will forever try to resurrect itself. God has put eternity into the hearts of men ( Ecclesiastes 3:11); yet that verse shows we cannot see to understand God who is basically beyond time and ourselves. Perhaps self preservation is a reflection that we are an eternal soul; thankfully God has the upper hand for those He has called and predestined will make it to glorification; and that for eternity ( Romans 8:30).
The concept of redemption or Kinsman redeemer is seen with the story of Ruth. Christ redeemed us from among men through His atoning sacrifice ( Galatians 3:13). He purchased us with His blood. He has removed our sins as far as the east is from the west ( Psalm 103:12 also read verses 13 to 14). We have passed from death to life ( John 5:24). His Spirit bears witness with our spirit as to our salvation ( Romans 8:16).
These and many other promises are things to meditate on and give comfort. We can only undestand such things if we are spiritually discerned; however and one of His children. ( 1 Cor. 2:14-15). Let us test ourselves to see if we are in the faith therefore ( 2 Cor. 13:5-6).
Agape.
Well said,
I would add to your statement of Paul in 1Cor 9:27
Though Romans is place before Cor in the bible, it was actually written after Cor
In Pauls ever increasing growth in the Grace in the Lord Jesus Christ, Grace brought him to the perfection, maturity, & confidence that he states in Rom 8:35-39
only sin separates
This clearly show a perfection that can be added too, as we continue steadfastly to grow in Grace until the end 2Tim 4:7
this is the reason he states in Philippians 3:12 & then in Philippians 3:15 it was a contradiction of truths, but that he learnt
John 15:5 & Philippians 4:13 Humility, Micah 6:8
We have the Scriptures as a testimony of Paul's extra ordinary life, all owning to Grace, 1Cor 15:10
God is not a respector of persons, though He does have different placement within His body, yet all are required to be holy!
Grace & Peace to you
Christ has already come the second time, as a thief in the night, you don't see the thief?
Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered for the SINS of many, and to those who look for him he shall APPEAR THE SECOND TIME without SIN unto SALVATION.
John 16:7 For I tell you the truth, it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter WILL NOT COME unto you, but if I depart, I will sent him to you.
John 15:26 ....but when the Comforter IS COME ....... even the SPIRIT of TRUTH ..... he will testify of me ......
Colossians 1:27 ..... this mystery ..... Christ ON YOU ......
God Bless YOU!
Well said brother, likewise reckon, we should think or consider and live a life as if we are dead to sin. Some take it as it is a one-time deal, and they are good to go. But is it conditional? If we are conditionally accepted there is something on our part, we must do to be accepted. Our faith, like Abraham, is that God is the only true God and He can and will reward us. We must choose to come to Him on His terms or continue in the ways of the world and if we do we will receive the gift of faith from God, His calling.
What must we do? We are all sinners in need of God's mercy, or our sins will remain, not forgiven, blotted out, or paid for unless we come to repentance as we are commanded to, Acts 17:30. If we obey we will enter His mercy, and our sins will be blotted out, Prov.28:13 Is. 55:7 1 John 1:9 Acts 3:19. Our past sins that separated us from God, Is. 59:1-2.
With repentance and confession, we are no longer separated from God, no longer under condemnation we enter justification, made right with God we enter the presence of the Lord, Acts 3:19. Baptized into Christ we begin a relationship through the Holy Spirit to all who obey and repent, Acts 2:38.
To remain in justification, we must continue to follow the lead He provides through the Holy Spirit, Rom. 8:1 Rom 8:12-14. While we remain in Justification and repentance Jesus continues to cover by His blood the penalty for sins we commit, 1 John 1:7.
Paul, we know was chosen by Jesus and he was filled with the Holy Spirit, but he said even he could be a castaway, 1 Cor. 9:25-27. Even with the seal of the earnest of the Holy Spirit, a downpayment is for what we are at that time, if we fall back, it can be forfeited if we are not willing to remain repentant. If we choose to walk by the flesh and not after the Spirit we return to condemnation and we will perish, John 15:6 the word IF, we will have to pay the penalty for sin ourselves, Rev. 21:8.
Just my understanding.
God bless,
RLW
The Spirit gives the beast 42 months to denote that his authority came from Satan himself. So are these children. Do we not see these children of Belial hating a man for color? or for his baldness? Of what business it is for them to judge another man's servant? Children of Belial serve their master and they have another gospel and another christ. "Those who hate me without reason outnumber the hairs of my head; many are my enemies without cause, those who seek to destroy me. "(Ps.69:4) This was fulfilled in the life of Jesus Christ. "But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: 'They hated me without reason.'( John 15:25)
The angel talking with John refers to the temple of God to which shows a courtyard, and it falls in with his Jewish background. But the courtyard refers to the camp without where Christ suffered, "Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate."(He.13:12)
The Children of Belial or the Gentiles by their deeds (because of resisting the gospel of Christ) shall injure the building of the church which however shall go on despite of their interference. This shall go on for 42 days.
Recently; I was given a survey by a pro life organization which asked me about various issues. I stated that all lives; whether born children; elderly or those in the womb should be valued. We clearly live in a suicidal culture where anything of value has been cheapened; and the value of a traditional marriage seems to have been removed as a serious concept. We face challenges from those who would terminate the life of the elderly with "assisted suicide" not just for unbearable pain but for those with various psychological issues. We see unborn life to be considered "parasites" by those in the trending values of society. No doubt the cheap thrills of drugs and the trivialization of the value of life through violent anime has blurred reality from fiction and allowed youth to have less restraint on taking another life to justify their "manifesto" or just in robbing someone of a few dollars.
In the scripture; we know that God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked ( Ezekiel 18:23). He judges according to His standards. Deutoronomy 30:19 encourages us to choose life and that benefits our descendants as well (loosely translated). It also gives a choice for cursings or blessings. Joshua 24:15 states to choose who you will serve and later in the verse states "as for me and my house we will serve the Lord."
More homes need this as their standard. Children clearly need care to a certain age; but there are times when unacceptable behavior and disrespect for authority may force the issue and they need to be removed until repentant. The fear of the Lord needs to be something along with respect that obviously is missing in many homes today. Proper firmness is needed and we need to show as parents that if we love God we obey His commandments. ( John 15:10; 1 John 2:3). Proper love means discipline; we cannot follow permissiveness as Proverbs 13:24 states; there are verses that say the soul is saved ( Prov. 19:18) with discipline.
Re.19:10
"I am thy fellow-servant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." (19:10)
The 'angel' addresses himself as a fellow servant and it is a clue: first we shall check what Jesus had spoken, "Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you." ( John 15:15) Jesus Christ as the Servant King knew it first hand. He is the Son, only begotten in the sense he is the Word become flesh. So there need no other citations required.
The angel is connected to Jesus Christ as much as John is. One is in flesh and blood by circumstances living out his banishment on the isle of Patmos. Yet he is free to be in heavenly places in his master. The angel is part of the cloud of witnesses which we saw in the night vision of Daniel the Seer. "One like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, "(Dan.7:13). These clouds appear from time to time and it is always in association with God. "who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind." The Psalmist inspired by God places these in heavenly places. When He accords a vision to Prophet Ezekiel he sends the four living creatures from the midst of it. "And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire./ Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures." (Ez.1:1:4-5; Ps.104:3)
You stated: I would also add that we can look to Christ Himself who apparently "broke" the Sabbath law by healing on the Sabbath; having Disciples eating grain and thus "doing work"; etc.
John 15:10 "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love."
Jesus is stating in John 15:10 that he kept His Fathers Commandments - which would include the Sabbath/4th commandment. So what you are stating is in direct conflict with the scripture.
If you read God's 4th Commandment Exodus 20:10 it is commanding us to refrain from our work, meaning refrain from our normal work, doing things to get us ahead/making money. The Pharisees and the Sadducees made the Sabbath into something that God never intended it to be, and Jesus straightened that out, he showed us what the Sabbath Day is really meant to be. Similar to showing us by His examples, what He meant by recieving water baptism, and how we receive the Holy Spirit etc.
I would be very careful telling others that Jesus broke the Sabbath, when He states in scripture that he kept all of His Fathers Commandments.
Happy Sabbath Day!
Yes keeping Jesus will, as He kept His fathers will! Amen.
John 15:10"If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love."
I find your meditation comments thoughtful, and encouraging, keep them coming.
GBU
I can't tell you how Dan would answer that question,
but here's mine
It's not a work of our self-efforts in our own strengths or our own understanding, it following the Light of Christ in our hearts, the still small Voice of Conscience that convicts us of our wrong doings & directs us to do what is just, good & holy, Titus 2:11
Micah 6:8 , its the Treasure we have in these earthen vessels, enlightening us in the power of Holy Spirit, picking up the Cross & denying self, & causing us to will & do of His good pleasure, which works were finishes from the foundation of the world, Hebrews 4:3 Acts 15:18 We enter into His works, coming to a place of rest from our own works
Then there some that are persuaded they don't have to do anything, but believe, without becoming a doer of the Word, thats more like being a demon, for they believes, but they do not obey.
Consider all that Scriptures, beginning with Abraham, Gen 18:19 by his obedience Abraham proved his faith & his love for God
John 15:10 he abided in God's love & received all that God had promise him, through his obedience to God's commands.
Today's Christianity says you can be a Christian without keeping His commandments, God loves you & His grace got you covered. This is a changing of the definition of Grace, which is defined in Scripture as Titus 2:12 Grace is the power of God to reveal our sins & to takes us out of them, not to encourage or pamper us in our sins.
Friends, God salvation is a free gift, but faith without works is dead. James 2:17-26 this is clearly seen & understood in the whole of Scriptures. Jesus Himself learn obedience by the things that He suffer, & became perfect, perfected our salvation, all for our sakes, that we may follow Him. John 14:31
in love & truth
So what did Jesus' Blood do that no other sacrifice could?
A. it was the only RANSOM price for sin (all sin, for all people): Matthew 20:28; 1 Timothy 2:5,6.
B. it was the only way to bring RECONCILIATION (no longer enemies, but now accepted & in peace) with God ( 2 Corinthians 5:18-21).
C. it was the only way to PROPITIATE (to appease & turn away God's Anger) knowing that His Son's Blood fully met His Holy Demands to save those who would believe in Him ( 1 John 2:1,2).
D. it was the only acceptable SUBSTITUTE that it would be Jesus that received man's condemnation, that no animal's blood could ever accomplish ( 2 Corinthians 5:21).
E. and all this gave irrefutable proof that God's LOVE for sinners was genuine & lasting, that His Own Life, of His only Begotten Son, should be evident to all.
True love can be seen when "a man lays down HIS life for his friends" ( John 15:13), & not just delegating the task to another. The Blood of Jesus, God's Son, shows us clearly, & should also do to the world, that God is indeed a God of Love, giving His best, His all to secure our salvation: given to all those who will respond to Him in faith in this great Work.
Part 5.
Who is God? - His Nature
We know certain things to be true of God for one reason: in His mercy He has condescended to reveal some of His qualities to us. God is spirit, by nature intangible ( John 4:24). God is One, but He exists as three Persons-God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit ( Matthew 3:16-17). God is infinite ( 1 Timothy 1:17), incomparable ( 2 Samuel 7:22), and unchanging ( Malachi 3:6). God exists everywhere ( Psalm 139:7-12), knows everything ( Psalm 147:5; Isaiah 40:28), and has all power and authority ( Ephesians 1; Revelation 19:6).
Who is God? - His Work
We cannot understand God apart from His works, because what God does flows from who He is. Here is an abbreviated list of God's works, past, present, and future: God created the world ( Genesis 1:1; Isaiah 42:5); He actively sustains the world ( Colossians 1:17); He is executing His eternal plan ( Ephesians 1:11) which involves the redemption of man from the curse of sin and death ( Galatians 3:13-14); He draws people to Christ ( John 6:44); He disciplines His children ( Hebrews 12:6); and He will judge the world ( Revelation 20:11-15).
Who is God? - A Relationship with Him
In the Person of the Son, God became incarnate ( John 1:14). The Son of God became the Son of Man and is therefore the "bridge" between God and man ( John 14:6; 1 Timothy 2:5). It is only through the Son that we can have forgiveness of sins ( Ephesians 1:7), reconciliation with God ( John 15:15; Romans 5:10), and eternal salvation ( 2 Timothy 2:10). In Jesus Christ "all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form" ( Colossians 2:9). So, to really know who God is, all we have to do is look at Jesus.
Jerry that is much of what we know about God and that probably don't scratch the surface on GOD!
I HOPE THIS HELPS.
GOD BLESS.
Greetings in Christ JESUS
You said above:
"When the sun and the moon are darkened my understanding, this is literal...In the mid-500 AD, there was when the sun and moon were darkened which caused famine and plagues that was caused by volcanic eruptions... , meteorites, or something else it will be a sign before Jesus's second coming... in Joseph's dream, he does see the sun, moon, and stars, my understanding of this is a representation of Israel and the woman who had the man child, Jesus, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron we see in Rev.12:1"
In my view you need to meditate more deeply the Word of GOD, unfortunately your description above is from a human perspective,a stumble,not from GOD's perspective.Rev.12:1-There appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the Sun, and the MOON under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: Here JESUS is not referring unto them which received Him not, and killed Him, quite the contrary, He is referring to His true Church in the world, He is the Sun, the Greater Light, the Light that came to the world,and it is He who clothes the woman with His Light.And under her feet who gives her support is the Holy Spirit sent by JESUS here- John 15:26 and 16:7-15-take a look. And the twelve stars of her crown are the twelve APOSTLES of our Lord JESUS,the Sun of Justice-Mal.4:2.
On the other hand,"When the sun and the moon are darkened my understanding,this's literal"according your human imagination What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, self-executing or self-executable: And the Word is revealing that a STAR fall from heaven( Isaiah 14:12-15)unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit,as the smoke of a great furnace;and the SUN and air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.
Get ready
No, my friend, I have the Witness within me bearing witness to the Truth of what I here write & have written, back up with the Scriptures & sound reasoning, sealed with the experiential personal knowledge of them that God has given me in bringing me out of the darkness into His glorious Light Act 26:18 Wherein I stand in my present measure, abiding in the Vine & being further purged that I may bring forth more fruit. John 15:2,3
This has not happen instantaneously, but a 13yr on going journey, Matt 7:14 God has been very gracious & good in His longsuffering love towards me, I was so mule headed, thinking I could have God's salvation my way. In His tender mercies to me He broke me & in this brokenness I yielded up myself & committed to wait upon Him Psalm 123:2 & have His salvation on His terms, John 14:6 Luke 14:27 1Cor 1:18
Present day Christianity has not these gifts & fruits & why? In the Reformation, which small beginning began around 1400's, in slowly breaking away from the darkness of popery, did not cut all the cord asunder, but keep some of the their teaching. Like the Catholic's took over the Head of the Ministry from Christ, alone with His gifts unto men. Read the whole church history here, its freely on the web, don't rely on any man word for it, but turn to the Witness within your own heart, the Scriptures & sound reasoning, with a whole hearted love for the Truth, one cannot remain deceived for long or be deceived from what God in truth will discover to one who is searching for Him. Psalms 145:18
In my post that responded to S Spencer, it focussed on the following statement:
QUOTE: "In John 15:2 and especially verse 6, Jesus is very clear that if Christians FAIL to produce unto God the required quantities of "spiritual fruit" expected, God the Father will remove them permanently from Christ. When that happens, John 15:6 says they become "withered" (spiritually) prior to men (or angels - Matthew 13:40-42) later gathering them prior to burning in the Lake of Fire." UNQUOTE
Instead of you addressing this very serious claim associated with Bible-based Salvation, you have chosen to refer to the parable of the Sower and the Seed and presented your "take" on what you believe it represents. I disagree with what you say because you open up your claims by saying:
- "the wheat is a Baby Christ".
There's nothing in the parable that says the "seed" is wheat or the "Baby Christ" as you claim. Jesus Christ's own words in scripture prove your claim here to be false, Alex7:
"Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God." ( Luke 8:11)
Given that you have this basic understanding of the parable wrong, it is pointless for me to comment on anything else in your reply.
Thanks anyway, Alex 7.
Firstly, the 8 verses in John 15:1-8 certainly refer to Christians being grafted into Jesus so as to produce the required "fruit" - but your understanding of 'the fruit' associating with the "fruit of the Spirit" as you stated in Galatians 5:22-23 is not correct. In other words, does God the Father seek "...love, joy, peace..." back to Himself from Christians?
As an example, if I meet a Christian man who is abrupt, discourteous, angry and generally offensive, I know that he does NOT have the Holy Spirit's presence within him. On the other hand, if I meet another man who exhibits, "...love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control" and especially is a LOVER OF BIBLE TRUTHS - then I know that such a man has the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit within him.
In John 15:2 and especially verse 6, Jesus is very clear that if Christians FAIL to produce unto God the required quantities of "spiritual fruit" expected, God the Father will remove them permanently from Christ. When that happens, John 15:6 says they become "withered" (spiritually) prior to men (or angels - Matthew 13:40-42) later gathering them prior to burning in the Lake of Fire.
Therefore, the "spiritual fruit" that God the Father requires to be seen brought unto Him from each Christian during their lifetime on the Earth represents the souls of men, women and children "lost" in Satan's kingdom and brought into God's kingdom ( Luke 15:7) through the preaching of the Gospel.
In the parable of the Sower and the Seed, Jesus described the quantities of "souls saved" through the preaching of the Gospel as being 100, 60 or 30 souls (my understanding). If Christians fail to produce less than 30 lost souls into God's kingdom throughout their lifetime on the Earth, it is questionable whether they have Salvation, given the words of Christ in John 15:2, 6.
Any comments you might have would be appreciated.
In more careful investigation of scripture; it appears that there are accounts that clearly delineate happenings that occur within a 24 hour day; and others that continue a narrative that may or may not encompass multiple days or perhaps longer periods of time. I thought therefore that a general study of the variety of challenges the Lord faced constantly; along with the spiritual giftings of all types apparent to be active simultaneously ( Colossians 2:9) would be interesting as He had all the "fullness of the Godhead bodily."
His example; therefore as our High Priest ( Heb. 7:25; etc) means that we can live by His example and thus be "imitators of Christ" ( 1 Cor. 11:1). This; of course is easier said than done; impossible in fact in our own efforts ( John 15:5).
Paul; of course is a great; if not THE penultimate example of a surrendered life; and in many ways mirrors Christ in self sacrificial love and service to the church; through many trials; persecutions; and sufferings. These studies should convince anyone who isn't in a coma that today's mushy view of Christ as embodying some sort of feel good; crowd pleasing charisma that everyone loved is far off from reality. This study is greatly challenging to myself; and I assume anyone reading these scriptures as to what is truly required to be His Disciple. Ultimately; I believe this will be a characteristic of every true believer in some aspects; but in reality few surrender their lives enough to truly live in this manner. It is more than an inconvenient truth; the challenges Christ gives to all His followers but of course is as process in some ways as well. The Spirit sanctifies us; conforming us into His image ( Romans 8:29). Philippians 4:1 and some other verses shows us how His church was Paul's crown. This makes our rewards to be based on building up brothers and sisters in the Lord; and to focus attention there keeps us from focusing on our own issues.
"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:" 1 Peter 3:21 KJV
Does this verse above say baptism doth NOT save us, or that it does? I didn't write this, God did. Are your words in perfect alignment with what God said here? Does it say that baptism is unimportant and should be avoided and definitely do NOT be baptized or does it say the opposite of that?
Mark 16:16
Acts 2:38
Matthew 28:19
John 3:5
Ephesians 4:5
It sure seems very important based on these verses, do you agree? Blatant disobedience is not a sign of a true Christian according to what the Bible says.
John 15:10
I've never understood how someone can call himself a Christian but aim to do the very minimum they assume they need to do in order to get to heaven. I don't think Jesus is a bare minimum type of being. He wants all of you like the greatest commandment says: Matthew 22:37-38. It doesn't say love God with only part of your heart and pick and choose whatever you're comfortable with in obeying and its totally cool if you don't do 50% of the stuff in the Bible. The life of a Christian is to be a slave to righteousness. It's not just a get out of hell free card to enjoy following satan and do whatever lust the heart desires. Most will cry Lord Lord at the end assuming they're saved, but will not be. These are people that tell everyone they're saved and will be devastated on how they got it wrong and actually didn't love Jesus like they claimed.
When comparing the two I believe the difference is in fruit barring.
This is something that can only be done by being connected to the genuine vine. John 15:1-5.
We can do nothing without Christ.
These verses and many others is tied to this "working of the Holyspirit."
Romans 6:5-10.
Romans 8:11.
This is the life giving spirit that we get once we truly believe.
This is baptism!
This is Christ in us, and we in him.
Jesus said that those who abide in Him will bear much fruit. That fruit is more than ministry results, it is also the evidence of a life lived in God.
IF WE'RE CONNECTED TO THE VINE WE WILL BARE FRUIT!
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Galatians 5:22-23
This is what the natural man can not do and what the OLD COVENANT couldn't produce.
Galatians 5:17-18 says; "For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
BUT IF YE BE LED OF THE SPIRIT, YE ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW"
Also see.
Matthew 7:18.
Salvation is inward. It's a new heart that CAUSES you to produce fruit.
It's not forced by command.
Christ put his life giving Holyspirit IN you, and that "Holyspirit in you" won't turn you from him.
It would be turning him from himself.
Again; This is Christ in you, and we in him.
Ephesians 4:30 is something the law and the Old covenant couldn't do. See; " Galatians 5:17-18"
Now what you do, it is he that works in you! Philippians 2:13.
By fruit we shall know them and by it, we can examine ourselves also.
We can use Galatians 5:19-26 as a guide.
Ephesians 4:1-16 is what every Christian should keep by his side.
God bless.
Romans 3:10,12 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:there is non that seeketh after God.
Psalms 33:12 Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance.
Matthew 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
Mark 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
1 Corinthians 1:27,28 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
James 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: