Lev 26:15-21 God is speaking to His people, the history of the children of Israel full of this. 2 Chronicles 7:14Jeremiah 3:22Hosea 6:1,2
Christ brings this into the NT John 12:40Acts 28:27
Hebrews 12:5-11 speaking of His children
He does this in His merciful lovingkindness to us, we being so blinded by the deceitfulness of sin, it must be scourge out, define as "to flog" lit or fig, God as a father chastising and training men as children by affliction,
Chastisement; Education or training; by implication, disciplinary correction, chastening, instruction, nurture.
There's two kinds of fear, & many manifestations of each, all grounded in one of the two, godly fear which foundation is grounded in obedient reverential love for God.
The other, Satan counter part, grounded in disobedience which brings torment, where condemnation & guilt in one's own heart follows them wherever they go, for they have offended the Holy God; they having continue in disobedience to the Grace of God which appears in their hearts.
God's love in chastising correction, cast this fear & torment out
& why? John 14:21, which defines love, which makes way for John 14:23 one's habitation becomes a dwelling place for Perfect Love in the work of Sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience & sprinkling of the Blood/Life of Jesus.
thus "for our profit, that we might be partakers of His holiness.
Hebrews 12:11 exercising the Grace of God, the Word of Righteousness in discerning between Good & evil,, there's suffering in the Cross to learn righteousness. 1Pet 4:1
Then we have Job, who God said is perfect, Job 2:3; which trials, suffering & afflictions is of a much higher concept than punishment for disobedience, James 5:11
Hebrews 11:33 for this purpose "obtain a better resurrection"
one eighty, you would do well to live out your call name.
your in darkness, deceived; dwelling, speaking & judging falsely against God
Eve gave the fruit of the tree to Adam; and he did eat of the fruit, and the results was DEATH, but He was NOT DECEIVED, but gladly DIED, with and for his wife.
Inside the first chapters of Genesis is hidden a parable of Christ's death, resurrection, and marriage (becoming ONE) to his wife, CHRIST IN YOU.
1 Timothy 2:14 For Adam WAS NOT DECEIVED, but the WOMAN being DECEIVED was in the transgression.
You are correct, this was God's plan from the foundations of the world; but, God didn't allow Saran to do anything, Satan is God's instrument, God caused Satan to act.
Job 2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan ..... although thou MOVETH ME AGAINST HIM, to destroy him without a cause .....
Ez.1:1 "the heavens were opened" cause and it's effect was,"and I saw visions of God."Ez.1:3 "And the hand of the Lord was upon him there." Here we have Ezekiel narrating his experience and the Spirit explaining to us its significance. V.3 indicates the same meaning as the phrase 'under the shadow of his wlngs' and God was present there. In order to round it off we need the sound of voice of the Lord."And I heard the voice of one speaking."(v.28)
'The Spirit entered into me' (2:2) God's will is internalized so the first warning is to the prophet,- and God is concerned for his own well-being. "Be not rebellious like the rebellious house; open your mouth and eat." The prophet is to make himself as nothing. Faithfulness of God and of man as one must control the situation so whether Israel followed it or not is not his concern. Instead we have celebrity preachers and the manner they cut and paste the word of God is an indication that they are well settled on the seat of Satan and it is their will-worship.
The Living Creatures
Ez.1:4 The whirlwind comes from the north which is intended as the throne of God. I n the Book of Isaiah we have a verse to help us. "You said in your heart, "I will ascend to heaven/I will sit on the mount of Assembly in the far reaches of the north."(Is 14:13; Job 2:1) The glory of the Lord at first is visual, a great cloud with brightness around it, and fire flashing forth continually, and in the midst of the fire. It reminds of the night vision from the Book of Daniel the throne on which the Ancient of days did sit; in v.5 the living creatures appear from its midst.
These creatures are not identical to the four beasts in Re. ch. 4 but they are represented just the same. Instead of six wings they have four wings two of which are up and touching one another'while two covered their bodies.(1:11-12) Their bodies didn't count as they were on errand.
What you, and others that hold your view, are doing is missing, ignoring, denying (you chose the word) that the EFFICACY of Christ's Atonement extends from the FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.
This is unscriptual, it didn't apply until He actually did it.
quoting you;
"If this were not the case, no one living in the OT could have ever become saved. Why? Because no one can, nor ever has, kept the Law of God perfectly".
Job 1:1Job 1:8Job 2:3 Enoch was take up to God, do you really believe God would allow a sinner into heaven? Both of these was before the law, & after the law 1 Kings 11:42 Kings 20:31Chronicles 29:9Luke 1:6Philippians 3:6
What saith thou of thyself?
Friend, your putting your foot in your mouth again!
Living in the Spirit (part 5) Separating the Spirit of truth from the spirit of error
In detecting a counterfeit; we are often told that experts rely on their experience seeing the genuine in order to detect that which appears at first glance to be the same but on further investigation has some telltale sign of fraud. I would add to that statement in saying that we should learn to recognize all the appearances of truth and how the enemy uses such things to appeal to the flesh in order to draw us in through whatever toxin he chooses to conceal in the punch; so to speak.
In studying this subject; one can't overlook the key concept of TRUST in God as being the foundation of our walk. The Lord giveth; and the Lord taketh away. Blessed be the Lord ( Job 1:21). In studying Job we see that he started his trial well; praising the Lord even when his wife told him to "curse God and die" ( Job 2:9). This was after the blitzkrieg of tragedies that crashed forth; and after his own personal afflictions. We need to keep in mind that it appears he was entirely unaware that Satan was behind the calamaties themselves and all that went on behind the scenes in the councils of God and the angelic/demonic realm.
We are told not to complain or grumble; but nonetheless pleading our cause wasn't even foreign to Christ when He cried greatly for the cup "if possible" to be removed; nonetheless God's will to be done ( Luke 22:42). It is hard to believe in our greatest trials and suffering that they pale in comparison to the "exceeding joy" to come ( Romans 8:18). When we see Paul's struggle, though we are well aware of the extraordinary amount of suffering which God promised he would endure for His nane's sake at the inception of his ministry ( Acts 9:16). Some of this; no doubt may have been due to his earlier persecutions to set an example as well as to chastise him; not as final judgment but as in the case of David caught in adultery; residual damage in this life for earlier sins.
This is a tough scripture, the sons of God and the daughters of men. Some consider the sons of God to be the line of Seth and the daughters of men the line of Cain. Then if we throw in what Jesus said in Matt. 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven, wow.
There is no need for angels in heaven to marry, they are immortal, and no need to reproduce as we will be after the resurrection in the kingdom on the new earth. Angels are called sons of God in Hebrew b'nai Elohim in Job 1:6Job 2:1Job 38:7.
Through scripture angels take on human form, they eat and drink Gen. 18:7-8Gen. 19:3 and physically wrestle with man, Gen. 32:24. If they eat and drink would that mean they have all the organs of man on earth? Scripture tells us there are devils/demons and fallen angels on earth along with Satan but there is another group of angels. These angels are different, they are locked in chains of darkness in the bottomless pit until judgment. 2 Peter 2:4-7Jude 1:6-7. We see in Rev. 9:11 this pit has a king, and this is where Satan will be locked up for 1000 years.
They left their first estate, heaven and in 2 Peter and Jude it says making them an example, (going after strange flesh), they corrupted God's creation Gen. 6:5-7. Even though there are fallen angels roaming the earth this set of angels God made an example to the others they will be locked in chains of darkness until judgment. We see the devils in Mark 5:9-10 were in fear Jesus might cast them down to the bottomless pit.
We see that this happened again after the flood, Gen. 6:4 "and also after." The description in scripture is clear these are not just tall people. 2 Samuel 21:16Joshua 12:4Numbers 13:33Deuteronomy 2:19-21Deuteronomy 20:17Amos 2:9. This is just a small amount of information but may it will help in your study.
This is my understanding; Satan is our accuser, and he still accuses us before God. We see in Job 1:6 and Job 2:1 Satan came along with the sons of God/angels to present themselves to God. I understand that would be in heaven.
We are told to put on the whole armor of God in Ephesians 6:11-12 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. The Greek word for high places is epouranios, heavenly realm.
In Revelation 12:7-8 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. The words "neither was their place found in heaven" tells me they still have access to heaven until they are cast out, down to earth.
Verse 10:12 shows Satan accused the brethren before our God day and night it was by the blood of Christ, they cast him out and he only has a short time. My understanding this starts the tribulation when Satan gives his seat, power, and authority to the beast Rev. 13.
So, my understanding is Satan still has access, I am sure it is limited but until they are cast out permanently that will be in the future. If you understand another way that is ok.
You are right, this is hard to understand so we need not be dogmatic but humble. The sons of God are in the OT only 5 times Gen. 6:2, 5 Job 1:6Job 2:6Job 38:7, and Daniel 3:25. The times in Job and Daniel are clearly angelic beings, so how do we take the meaning in Gen. 6. It says, "when the sons of God saw daughters of men", The Hebrew word for men here is h-'-m/adam meaning mankind. So, is this distinguishing a difference in the sons of adam/men?
There are words that we may overlook, "and also after that". We see giants/Nephilim after the flood. 2 Sam. 21:16Joshua 12:4Num. 13:33Deut. 2:19-21Deut. 20:17Amos 2:9 and more. Are there any NT scriptures that speak to this?
2 Peter 2:4-6 and Jude 1:6-7 both are talking about angels who sinned and "which kept not their first estate but left their own habitation", the Greek word is used only two times translated habitation is oiktrion, the other place was in 2 Cor 5:2 the word house. Peter and Jude both compare what these angels did the same as in Sodom and Gomorrah, strange flesh.
There are fallen angels along with Satan who are active on the earth today and still have access to heaven, but these angels did something even worse because God made an example of them and locked them in chains of darkness in the bottomless pit, until judgment. I do not know of any man in the OT who was ever called or referred to as son of God, I may have overlooked it, but my understanding is Nephilim came from these angels that God locked up.
Psalm 38. In Job 2:7-8 we see a similar situation as to David's disease with the physical effects and the disdain of others as to his state. (see verse 11 in this Psalm comparted with Job 30:10).
The first seven verses describe physical affliction which could have been caused by David's sin (such as venereal disease which was discussed in an earlier Psalm). Once we get past verse 7; we see much in the description of the alientation and sufferings of Christ; except for the mention of verse 18 and David's sin and iniquity. Christ did have to suffer to deliver us from wrath by being the sin-bearer and hence again there is a dual representation here of David's life and the prophetic future of Christ. Jesus; of course asked why the Father had foresaken him in Mark 15:34. This can tie into Psalm 22 as well as verse 21 of this Psalm.
We see other indications such as verse 17 on Christ being the "man of sorrows" ( Isaiah 53:3); and his being silent as a sheep before it's shearers (v. 13 and 14 compared with further on in Isaiah 53:7). This; of course would reflect his inquisition for a time before Pilate ( John 19:8-11).
These passages show us that there are often several types of Psalms in one as well as multiple present and future applications. Prophecy in Messianic themes can be intertwined with impreccatory Psalms; for instance. The general idea of the meek inheriting the earth show us how a king (David and or Christ) can be exalted through a serving capacity; and indeed those who are bearing fruit and growing in faith are promised to be kings and priests someday (See Rev. 1:6).
Why did GOD destroy the earth except Noah & his family = reply : Genesis 6:5,6,7,8,
Please read again Genesis 6, look back to Genesis 4:26, Genesis 5, Job 1:5,6, Job 1:20-22 continues to Job 2:1, John 1:12, Romans 8:14, Philippians 2:15, Hebrews 1:4,5,6,7
Angels aren't Sons of GOD 1Corinthians 6:3,
In KJV 1611 Tobit 3, Tobit 7, Tobit 12, are the only thing even close & there was not what you stated in these scriptures. Mark 12:25, notice the scriptures here are relevant to Tobit; Mark 12:18-25,
I agree with Adam if the angels did not have free will, there would not be any that disobeyed. Satan is the great accuser and as we see in Job 1:6 and Job 2:1 he presented himself along with the sons of God in heaven, and we know Satan had sinned.
My understanding is like Luke, they have not been cast out but will be cast down permanently with no more access to heaven, this has not happened yet, Revelation 12. Then the rise of the beast out of the bottomless pit to whom Satan gives his power, seat, and authority on earth.
There are angels not on the good side that have access to earth, Satan has power on earth limited by God, and devils/demons that scripture does not say how they got here or where they come from. Battles go on we do not see, like in Daniel 10. There is another group of angels different than the ones that have fallen but did not leave their first estate.
Their deeds were far greater, they left their first estate and left their own habitation 2 Peter 2:4Jude 1:6. These angels are locked up in chains of darkness, the bottomless pit, and have no access to heaven or earth. This is where the beast that many call antichrist will come from Rev. 11, 17, and where Satan will be locked up for 1000 years, Rev. 20:3.
God is light and there is no darkness in Him, and God is not author of confusion. Adam and Eve had sin but after they were cast out of the garden they were still in the presence of God because Cain went out of the presence of the LORD.
It's amazing over many years of reading, rereading & studying, GOD can teach us something new every time. Hopefully you'll continue to read it several times.
Son's of GOD = Genesis 6:2, notice: Genesis 4:26, = John 1:12, Romans 8:14, Philippians 2:15, 1John 3:1, 2
Job 1:6, Job 2:1, = notice the vrs. right before, Job 1:5, & right before, Job 2, Job 1:20-22, Revelation 12:10,
Job 2:3 And the LORD (God the Father) said unto Satan ( John 8:44 and his children, all flesh and blood), Hast thou considered my servant Job (a metaphor for Christ) that there is none like him (Christ) in the earth, a perfect and upright man (Christ), one (Christ) that feareth God (the Father), and escheweth evil? and he (Christ) still holdest fast his integrity, although thou (Satan and his children, flesh and blood)) movest ME (God the Father) AGAINST HIM (Christ), to DESTROY HIM (Christ) WITHOUT A CAUSE.
Psalms 119:161 Princes ( 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 of this world, Children of Satan) have persecuted me (Christ) WITHOUT A CAUSE, but I (Christ) stand in awe of the (Father's) word.
John 15:25 But THIS (Christ death and resurrection) COMETH TO PASS, that the WORD might be FULFILLED that is written in their law, They hated me WITHOUT A CAUSE.
I've experienced similar situations with " experienced contractors" that had really bad results. I've experienced much of that. Next time I think it may be wise for myself to inquire & require " high quality results " instead of " experienced ". I actually learned how to install my own carpet without stretching it. I had the carpet dealer cut the exact size for each room. When needed I would have it cut with extra length, for walkway, & closets, preventing seams. Then I would carefully cut those to fit as I layed it in place with a carpet knife. The " tact strip" nails alongside the walls grab carpet to lock in place. When the carpet weight is overwhelming I've had rooms clear, clean & ready to install & the carpet rolls delivered to each room. The carpet is much more manageable when opened & rolled out.
So it seems the main question is how to handle this situation as GOD fearing believers. After a bad job has been done.?
1st prayer, Proverbs 3:6, Proverbs 11:5,
2nd don't withhold wages to the wage earner: Proverbs 3:27, Leviticus 19:13, Jeremiah 22:13, Malachi 3:5,
We hired a carpet company to lay 3 rooms of carpet. The worker came. Upon the 1st day he was very late and made many excuses. He assured me that his children were his first priority. The 2 day same thing. I stayed there until 9 pm making sure he wouldn't leave so he could finish the work. 3 day same thinglate but he finished the job. His 25 years of experience didn't show. His work was unsatisfactory. What does the Bible say about this?
Sons of GOD : Genesis 6:2, Job 1:6, Job 2:1, Job 38:7, Revelation 12:10, John 1:12 "But as many as receive him, to them gave he power to become the sons of GOD, even to them that believe on his name:"
Romans 8:14 "For as many as are led by the Spirit of GOD, they are the sons of GOD."
Philippians 2:15 "That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of GOD, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world."
1John 3:1 "Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of GOD: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not."
Matthew 5:16, Luke 8:19, Matthew 23:9, John 20:17, John 4:23, John 16:28, Matthew 6:7-34 did you notice how many times GOD is referenced as "our, your Father " in that portion of chapter 6? Matthew 7:11,
Mike, I'm praying for you but I have a question. What did you mean exactly when you said " while I was still good"?
I'm just wondering because our perceived goodness doesn't win us any merit with God. Salvation isn't about how good we are. We can't earn our way into God's kingdom with our goodness or works that we do. It's about how much God loves us. I'm just gonna keep this short and give you two scriptures that come to mind. Make that three.
Jobs wife said " Do you still retain your integrity? ,why don't you just curse God and die!" Needless to say she got replaced.
#1 Read JOB 2:9
Job did not sin with his lips bringing accusation against the Lord.
#2 Read Romans 3:10
No one is righteous, nope, not me, not you. God owes us nothing. All of our righteousness is as filthy rags. Salvation is a gift. And friendship with the world is enmity with God. Prosperity is a false gospel. But if you'll seek Gods kingdom with your truest heart, He will give you the truest desires of your heart. He knows better than you what will make you happy.
I don't believe that Jesus threw you in to a pen with wolves. That doesn't sound like Jesus. But the devil is the adversary. He roams the earth seeking whom he may devour. We cannot be saved our way. We must do it the Bible way. Submit to the Lord. Repent or perish, for the kingdom of Heaven is at hand.
#3 Read John 3:16
It's all about His love for us. God sent His Son to take our sin. That's the gift. That our souls would not perish.
So much for keeping it short right?
Let me ask you this question in closing.
Do you honestly think that if you would have been blessed With houses and cars and wives and children and money raining from the heavens and friends and FB followers that you would even be seeking the Lord at all? Be honest with yourself.
Here's a bonus scripture :-)
Read Mark 8:36
All you have to do is touch the links to the scriptures I've referenced and they will open.
I like John Gill's comments on this portion of that verse, Tammy:
I make peace, and create evil; peace between God and men is made by Christ, who is God over all; spiritual peace of conscience comes from God, through Christ, by the Spirit; eternal glory and happiness is of God, which saints enter into at death; peace among the saints themselves here, and with the men of the world; peace in churches, and in the world, God is the author of, even of all prosperity of every kind, which this word includes: "evil" is also from him; not the evil of sin; this is not to be found among the creatures God made; this is of men, though suffered by the Lord, and overruled by him for good: but the evil of punishment for sin, God's sore judgments, famine, pestilence, evil beasts, and the sword, or war, which latter may more especially be intended, as it is opposed to peace; this usually is the effect of sin; may be sometimes lawfully engaged in; whether on a good or bad foundation is permitted by God; moreover, all afflictions, adversities, and calamities, come under this name, and are of God; see ( Job 2:10 ) ( Amos 3:6 ) : I the Lord do all these things;
Job 42:6. Wherefore I abhor myself. The more WE SEE of the glory and majesty of God, the more we shall see of the vileness and odiousness of sin, and of ourselves because of sin; and the more we shall abase and abhor ourselves for it; and repent in dust and ashes - Namely, sitting in dust and ashes. Job's afflictions had brought him to the ashes, Job 2:8, He sat down among the ashes; but now a sense of his sins brought him thither.
Observe, reader, true penitents mourn for their sins as heartily as ever they did for any outward afflictions; for they are brought to see more evil in their sins than in their troubles; and even those who have no gross enormities to repent of, yet ought to be greatly distressed in their souls for the workings of pride, self-will, peevishness, discontent, and anger, within them, and for all their hasty, unadvised speeches; for these they ought to be pricked in their hearts, and in bitterness, like Job.
Observe, also, that self- loathing is always the companion of true repentance. They shall loathe themselves for the evils they have committed, Ezekiel 6:9.
It is not sufficient that we be angry at ourselves for the wrong and damage we have, by sin, done to our own souls; but we must abhor ourselves, as having, by sin, made ourselves odious to the pure and holy God, who cannot look upon iniquity but with abhorrence. If sin in general be truly an abomination to us, sin in ourselves will especially be so; the nearer it is to us, the more loathsome it will appear to be, and the more we shall loathe ourselves on account of it.
Confess your faults one to another; pray that you will be healed.
Thanks T. Levis. I agree that Job was well into adulthood with adult children, so He must have been over 50 at least. But He could have been over 100 or 200 since Job is believed to have lived before Abraham when people lived into the 200's We just do not know. He did end up fathering more children and saw them grow up to adulthood, so I think He was between 50 and 120 or so. a pretty broad range, but Abraham had many children by Keturah after Sarah died when He was over 130 years olde and saw these children grow into adulthood.
The question on Job's age was asked just the other day. I hadn't noticed his age before or during his trials, nor any significant reason to know it. We understand Job to be a grown man with adult children during the onset of his trials. The seemingly significant part about his age is the last. Job 42:12-17,
Lev 26:15-21 God is speaking to His people, the history of the children of Israel full of this. 2 Chronicles 7:14 Jeremiah 3:22 Hosea 6:1,2
Christ brings this into the NT John 12:40 Acts 28:27
Hebrews 12:5-11 speaking of His children
He does this in His merciful lovingkindness to us, we being so blinded by the deceitfulness of sin, it must be scourge out, define as "to flog" lit or fig, God as a father chastising and training men as children by affliction,
Chastisement; Education or training; by implication, disciplinary correction, chastening, instruction, nurture.
There's two kinds of fear, & many manifestations of each, all grounded in one of the two, godly fear which foundation is grounded in obedient reverential love for God.
The other, Satan counter part, grounded in disobedience which brings torment, where condemnation & guilt in one's own heart follows them wherever they go, for they have offended the Holy God; they having continue in disobedience to the Grace of God which appears in their hearts.
God's love in chastising correction, cast this fear & torment out
& why? John 14:21, which defines love, which makes way for John 14:23 one's habitation becomes a dwelling place for Perfect Love in the work of Sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience & sprinkling of the Blood/Life of Jesus.
thus "for our profit, that we might be partakers of His holiness.
Hebrews 12:11 exercising the Grace of God, the Word of Righteousness in discerning between Good & evil,, there's suffering in the Cross to learn righteousness. 1Pet 4:1
Then we have Job, who God said is perfect, Job 2:3; which trials, suffering & afflictions is of a much higher concept than punishment for disobedience, James 5:11
Hebrews 11:33 for this purpose "obtain a better resurrection"
one eighty, you would do well to live out your call name.
your in darkness, deceived; dwelling, speaking & judging falsely against God
Ephesians 5:13, therefore, Ephesians 5:14
In Love & Truth
Eve gave the fruit of the tree to Adam; and he did eat of the fruit, and the results was DEATH, but He was NOT DECEIVED, but gladly DIED, with and for his wife.
Inside the first chapters of Genesis is hidden a parable of Christ's death, resurrection, and marriage (becoming ONE) to his wife, CHRIST IN YOU.
1 Timothy 2:14 For Adam WAS NOT DECEIVED, but the WOMAN being DECEIVED was in the transgression.
You are correct, this was God's plan from the foundations of the world; but, God didn't allow Saran to do anything, Satan is God's instrument, God caused Satan to act.
Job 2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan ..... although thou MOVETH ME AGAINST HIM, to destroy him without a cause .....
God Bless you!
Ez.1:1 "the heavens were opened" cause and it's effect was,"and I saw visions of God."Ez.1:3 "And the hand of the Lord was upon him there." Here we have Ezekiel narrating his experience and the Spirit explaining to us its significance. V.3 indicates the same meaning as the phrase 'under the shadow of his wlngs' and God was present there. In order to round it off we need the sound of voice of the Lord."And I heard the voice of one speaking."(v.28)
'The Spirit entered into me' (2:2) God's will is internalized so the first warning is to the prophet,- and God is concerned for his own well-being. "Be not rebellious like the rebellious house; open your mouth and eat." The prophet is to make himself as nothing. Faithfulness of God and of man as one must control the situation so whether Israel followed it or not is not his concern. Instead we have celebrity preachers and the manner they cut and paste the word of God is an indication that they are well settled on the seat of Satan and it is their will-worship.
The Living Creatures
Ez.1:4 The whirlwind comes from the north which is intended as the throne of God. I n the Book of Isaiah we have a verse to help us. "You said in your heart, "I will ascend to heaven/I will sit on the mount of Assembly in the far reaches of the north."(Is 14:13; Job 2:1) The glory of the Lord at first is visual, a great cloud with brightness around it, and fire flashing forth continually, and in the midst of the fire. It reminds of the night vision from the Book of Daniel the throne on which the Ancient of days did sit; in v.5 the living creatures appear from its midst.
These creatures are not identical to the four beasts in Re. ch. 4 but they are represented just the same. Instead of six wings they have four wings two of which are up and touching one another'while two covered their bodies.(1:11-12) Their bodies didn't count as they were on errand.
quoting you;
What you, and others that hold your view, are doing is missing, ignoring, denying (you chose the word) that the EFFICACY of Christ's Atonement extends from the FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.
This is unscriptual, it didn't apply until He actually did it.
quoting you;
"If this were not the case, no one living in the OT could have ever become saved. Why? Because no one can, nor ever has, kept the Law of God perfectly".
Job 1:1 Job 1:8 Job 2:3 Enoch was take up to God, do you really believe God would allow a sinner into heaven? Both of these was before the law, & after the law 1 Kings 11:4 2 Kings 20:3 1Chronicles 29:9 Luke 1:6 Philippians 3:6
What saith thou of thyself?
Friend, your putting your foot in your mouth again!
the bible said he was a righteous man and fearing GOD.
Jehovah ( psalm 83:18) himself called job righteous.
It was Satan doubting Job as a righteous man Job 1:6-11.
Satan planted seeds of Doubt by raising up 3 friends of Job
who spoke without really understanding Job 2:11. Their false
assumptions cause job many pains.
Jesus is aware of the traps of Satan and how he uses deception and lies.
Luke 4 and Matthew 4.
Speaking about things we don't understand in a since can be
like the ways of Satan John 8:44. false accusations and hinderance to do what is
right or what God wants us to do is from Satan- Genesis 2:15-17; Genesis 3:1-5
Jesus wasn't saying Peter was Satan. but he was being a hinderance to
his obedience to Jehovah God. John 3:16,17; Isaiah 12:2
Jesus after his impalement, Jesus came to Peter again. John 21:15-17
We can avoid hindering others by praying.. Matthew 6:9,10,13
In detecting a counterfeit; we are often told that experts rely on their experience seeing the genuine in order to detect that which appears at first glance to be the same but on further investigation has some telltale sign of fraud. I would add to that statement in saying that we should learn to recognize all the appearances of truth and how the enemy uses such things to appeal to the flesh in order to draw us in through whatever toxin he chooses to conceal in the punch; so to speak.
In studying this subject; one can't overlook the key concept of TRUST in God as being the foundation of our walk. The Lord giveth; and the Lord taketh away. Blessed be the Lord ( Job 1:21). In studying Job we see that he started his trial well; praising the Lord even when his wife told him to "curse God and die" ( Job 2:9). This was after the blitzkrieg of tragedies that crashed forth; and after his own personal afflictions. We need to keep in mind that it appears he was entirely unaware that Satan was behind the calamaties themselves and all that went on behind the scenes in the councils of God and the angelic/demonic realm.
We are told not to complain or grumble; but nonetheless pleading our cause wasn't even foreign to Christ when He cried greatly for the cup "if possible" to be removed; nonetheless God's will to be done ( Luke 22:42). It is hard to believe in our greatest trials and suffering that they pale in comparison to the "exceeding joy" to come ( Romans 8:18). When we see Paul's struggle, though we are well aware of the extraordinary amount of suffering which God promised he would endure for His nane's sake at the inception of his ministry ( Acts 9:16). Some of this; no doubt may have been due to his earlier persecutions to set an example as well as to chastise him; not as final judgment but as in the case of David caught in adultery; residual damage in this life for earlier sins.
James 1:5, Proverbs 25:2,
Hopefully these are helpful
This is a tough scripture, the sons of God and the daughters of men. Some consider the sons of God to be the line of Seth and the daughters of men the line of Cain. Then if we throw in what Jesus said in Matt. 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven, wow.
There is no need for angels in heaven to marry, they are immortal, and no need to reproduce as we will be after the resurrection in the kingdom on the new earth. Angels are called sons of God in Hebrew b'nai Elohim in Job 1:6 Job 2:1 Job 38:7.
Through scripture angels take on human form, they eat and drink Gen. 18:7-8 Gen. 19:3 and physically wrestle with man, Gen. 32:24. If they eat and drink would that mean they have all the organs of man on earth? Scripture tells us there are devils/demons and fallen angels on earth along with Satan but there is another group of angels. These angels are different, they are locked in chains of darkness in the bottomless pit until judgment. 2 Peter 2:4-7 Jude 1:6-7. We see in Rev. 9:11 this pit has a king, and this is where Satan will be locked up for 1000 years.
They left their first estate, heaven and in 2 Peter and Jude it says making them an example, (going after strange flesh), they corrupted God's creation Gen. 6:5-7. Even though there are fallen angels roaming the earth this set of angels God made an example to the others they will be locked in chains of darkness until judgment. We see the devils in Mark 5:9-10 were in fear Jesus might cast them down to the bottomless pit.
We see that this happened again after the flood, Gen. 6:4 "and also after." The description in scripture is clear these are not just tall people. 2 Samuel 21:16 Joshua 12:4 Numbers 13:33 Deuteronomy 2:19-21 Deuteronomy 20:17 Amos 2:9. This is just a small amount of information but may it will help in your study.
God bless,
RLW
Amos 2:1, 2Kings 23:16,20, 2Chronicles 34:1-6 as prophecied in 1Kings 13:12, & Ezekiel 24:9-14,
The other references comparable are 1Samuel 31:12,13, 2Samuel 21:12,13,14, they weren't completely consumed as described in Amos 2:1,
Hopefully this is helpful
This is my understanding; Satan is our accuser, and he still accuses us before God. We see in Job 1:6 and Job 2:1 Satan came along with the sons of God/angels to present themselves to God. I understand that would be in heaven.
We are told to put on the whole armor of God in Ephesians 6:11-12 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. The Greek word for high places is epouranios, heavenly realm.
In Revelation 12:7-8 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. The words "neither was their place found in heaven" tells me they still have access to heaven until they are cast out, down to earth.
Verse 10:12 shows Satan accused the brethren before our God day and night it was by the blood of Christ, they cast him out and he only has a short time. My understanding this starts the tribulation when Satan gives his seat, power, and authority to the beast Rev. 13.
So, my understanding is Satan still has access, I am sure it is limited but until they are cast out permanently that will be in the future. If you understand another way that is ok.
God bless,
RLW
You are right, this is hard to understand so we need not be dogmatic but humble. The sons of God are in the OT only 5 times Gen. 6:2, 5 Job 1:6 Job 2:6 Job 38:7, and Daniel 3:25. The times in Job and Daniel are clearly angelic beings, so how do we take the meaning in Gen. 6. It says, "when the sons of God saw daughters of men", The Hebrew word for men here is h-'-m/adam meaning mankind. So, is this distinguishing a difference in the sons of adam/men?
There are words that we may overlook, "and also after that". We see giants/Nephilim after the flood. 2 Sam. 21:16 Joshua 12:4 Num. 13:33 Deut. 2:19-21 Deut. 20:17 Amos 2:9 and more. Are there any NT scriptures that speak to this?
2 Peter 2:4-6 and Jude 1:6-7 both are talking about angels who sinned and "which kept not their first estate but left their own habitation", the Greek word is used only two times translated habitation is oiktrion, the other place was in 2 Cor 5:2 the word house. Peter and Jude both compare what these angels did the same as in Sodom and Gomorrah, strange flesh.
There are fallen angels along with Satan who are active on the earth today and still have access to heaven, but these angels did something even worse because God made an example of them and locked them in chains of darkness in the bottomless pit, until judgment. I do not know of any man in the OT who was ever called or referred to as son of God, I may have overlooked it, but my understanding is Nephilim came from these angels that God locked up.
God bless,
RLW
If we approach the throne as: Job 1:6, Job 2:1, John 1:12, 1John 3:1,2,
Philippians 2:1,
Hopefully these help
The first seven verses describe physical affliction which could have been caused by David's sin (such as venereal disease which was discussed in an earlier Psalm). Once we get past verse 7; we see much in the description of the alientation and sufferings of Christ; except for the mention of verse 18 and David's sin and iniquity. Christ did have to suffer to deliver us from wrath by being the sin-bearer and hence again there is a dual representation here of David's life and the prophetic future of Christ. Jesus; of course asked why the Father had foresaken him in Mark 15:34. This can tie into Psalm 22 as well as verse 21 of this Psalm.
We see other indications such as verse 17 on Christ being the "man of sorrows" ( Isaiah 53:3); and his being silent as a sheep before it's shearers (v. 13 and 14 compared with further on in Isaiah 53:7). This; of course would reflect his inquisition for a time before Pilate ( John 19:8-11).
These passages show us that there are often several types of Psalms in one as well as multiple present and future applications. Prophecy in Messianic themes can be intertwined with impreccatory Psalms; for instance. The general idea of the meek inheriting the earth show us how a king (David and or Christ) can be exalted through a serving capacity; and indeed those who are bearing fruit and growing in faith are promised to be kings and priests someday (See Rev. 1:6).
Please read again Genesis 6, look back to Genesis 4:26, Genesis 5, Job 1:5,6, Job 1:20-22 continues to Job 2:1, John 1:12, Romans 8:14, Philippians 2:15, Hebrews 1:4,5,6,7
Angels aren't Sons of GOD 1Corinthians 6:3,
In KJV 1611 Tobit 3, Tobit 7, Tobit 12, are the only thing even close & there was not what you stated in these scriptures. Mark 12:25, notice the scriptures here are relevant to Tobit; Mark 12:18-25,
Hopefully these are helpful
Possibly Revelation 6:4, context Revelation 6, & context Zechariah 1,
Please pray for wisdom James 1:5,
They seem to be walking to & fro, Zechariah 1:10,11,
Bay horses are reddish brown, Grizzled- speckled , Zechariah 6:7
2Chronicles 16:9, Zechariah 4:10,
But also Job 1:7, Job 2:2,
Psalms 139, for encouragement
Hopefully these are helpful
I agree with Adam if the angels did not have free will, there would not be any that disobeyed. Satan is the great accuser and as we see in Job 1:6 and Job 2:1 he presented himself along with the sons of God in heaven, and we know Satan had sinned.
My understanding is like Luke, they have not been cast out but will be cast down permanently with no more access to heaven, this has not happened yet, Revelation 12. Then the rise of the beast out of the bottomless pit to whom Satan gives his power, seat, and authority on earth.
There are angels not on the good side that have access to earth, Satan has power on earth limited by God, and devils/demons that scripture does not say how they got here or where they come from. Battles go on we do not see, like in Daniel 10. There is another group of angels different than the ones that have fallen but did not leave their first estate.
Their deeds were far greater, they left their first estate and left their own habitation 2 Peter 2:4 Jude 1:6. These angels are locked up in chains of darkness, the bottomless pit, and have no access to heaven or earth. This is where the beast that many call antichrist will come from Rev. 11, 17, and where Satan will be locked up for 1000 years, Rev. 20:3.
God is light and there is no darkness in Him, and God is not author of confusion. Adam and Eve had sin but after they were cast out of the garden they were still in the presence of God because Cain went out of the presence of the LORD.
God bless,
RLW
Please start with : James 1:5,
It's amazing over many years of reading, rereading & studying, GOD can teach us something new every time. Hopefully you'll continue to read it several times.
Son's of GOD = Genesis 6:2, notice: Genesis 4:26, = John 1:12, Romans 8:14, Philippians 2:15, 1John 3:1, 2
Job 1:6, Job 2:1, = notice the vrs. right before, Job 1:5, & right before, Job 2, Job 1:20-22, Revelation 12:10,
Hopefully these are helpful in your study
Job is a PROPHECY of Christ.
Job 2:3 And the LORD (God the Father) said unto Satan ( John 8:44 and his children, all flesh and blood), Hast thou considered my servant Job (a metaphor for Christ) that there is none like him (Christ) in the earth, a perfect and upright man (Christ), one (Christ) that feareth God (the Father), and escheweth evil? and he (Christ) still holdest fast his integrity, although thou (Satan and his children, flesh and blood)) movest ME (God the Father) AGAINST HIM (Christ), to DESTROY HIM (Christ) WITHOUT A CAUSE.
Psalms 119:161 Princes ( 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 of this world, Children of Satan) have persecuted me (Christ) WITHOUT A CAUSE, but I (Christ) stand in awe of the (Father's) word.
John 15:25 But THIS (Christ death and resurrection) COMETH TO PASS, that the WORD might be FULFILLED that is written in their law, They hated me WITHOUT A CAUSE.
God Bless You.
I've experienced similar situations with " experienced contractors" that had really bad results. I've experienced much of that. Next time I think it may be wise for myself to inquire & require " high quality results " instead of " experienced ". I actually learned how to install my own carpet without stretching it. I had the carpet dealer cut the exact size for each room. When needed I would have it cut with extra length, for walkway, & closets, preventing seams. Then I would carefully cut those to fit as I layed it in place with a carpet knife. The " tact strip" nails alongside the walls grab carpet to lock in place. When the carpet weight is overwhelming I've had rooms clear, clean & ready to install & the carpet rolls delivered to each room. The carpet is much more manageable when opened & rolled out.
So it seems the main question is how to handle this situation as GOD fearing believers. After a bad job has been done.?
1st prayer, Proverbs 3:6, Proverbs 11:5,
2nd don't withhold wages to the wage earner: Proverbs 3:27, Leviticus 19:13, Jeremiah 22:13, Malachi 3:5,
3rd justice & judgement : Proverbs 3:27, Job 8:3, Proverbs 21:3, Ecclesiastes 5:8, Isaiah 56:1,
Is it justice to speak up, to inform others? I ask you to seek GOD's direction & discernment on these. I'm reminded of: Matthew 5,
Hopefully these are helpful
Romans 8:14 "For as many as are led by the Spirit of GOD, they are the sons of GOD."
Philippians 2:15 "That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of GOD, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world."
1John 3:1 "Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of GOD: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not."
Matthew 5:16, Luke 8:19, Matthew 23:9, John 20:17, John 4:23, John 16:28, Matthew 6:7-34 did you notice how many times GOD is referenced as "our, your Father " in that portion of chapter 6? Matthew 7:11,
Mark 3:33-35,
1John 3, Romans 8:29,
Contrast = John 8:41-47, 1John 2:23, Matthew 3:9
Hopefully these are all helpful in your study
I'm just wondering because our perceived goodness doesn't win us any merit with God. Salvation isn't about how good we are. We can't earn our way into God's kingdom with our goodness or works that we do. It's about how much God loves us. I'm just gonna keep this short and give you two scriptures that come to mind. Make that three.
Jobs wife said " Do you still retain your integrity? ,why don't you just curse God and die!" Needless to say she got replaced.
#1 Read JOB 2:9
Job did not sin with his lips bringing accusation against the Lord.
#2 Read Romans 3:10
No one is righteous, nope, not me, not you. God owes us nothing. All of our righteousness is as filthy rags. Salvation is a gift. And friendship with the world is enmity with God. Prosperity is a false gospel. But if you'll seek Gods kingdom with your truest heart, He will give you the truest desires of your heart. He knows better than you what will make you happy.
I don't believe that Jesus threw you in to a pen with wolves. That doesn't sound like Jesus. But the devil is the adversary. He roams the earth seeking whom he may devour. We cannot be saved our way. We must do it the Bible way. Submit to the Lord. Repent or perish, for the kingdom of Heaven is at hand.
#3 Read John 3:16
It's all about His love for us. God sent His Son to take our sin. That's the gift. That our souls would not perish.
So much for keeping it short right?
Let me ask you this question in closing.
Do you honestly think that if you would have been blessed With houses and cars and wives and children and money raining from the heavens and friends and FB followers that you would even be seeking the Lord at all? Be honest with yourself.
Here's a bonus scripture :-)
Read Mark 8:36
All you have to do is touch the links to the scriptures I've referenced and they will open.
I make peace, and create evil; peace between God and men is made by Christ, who is God over all; spiritual peace of conscience comes from God, through Christ, by the Spirit; eternal glory and happiness is of God, which saints enter into at death; peace among the saints themselves here, and with the men of the world; peace in churches, and in the world, God is the author of, even of all prosperity of every kind, which this word includes: "evil" is also from him; not the evil of sin; this is not to be found among the creatures God made; this is of men, though suffered by the Lord, and overruled by him for good: but the evil of punishment for sin, God's sore judgments, famine, pestilence, evil beasts, and the sword, or war, which latter may more especially be intended, as it is opposed to peace; this usually is the effect of sin; may be sometimes lawfully engaged in; whether on a good or bad foundation is permitted by God; moreover, all afflictions, adversities, and calamities, come under this name, and are of God; see ( Job 2:10 ) ( Amos 3:6 ) : I the Lord do all these things;
Blessings!
Job 42:6. Wherefore I abhor myself. The more WE SEE of the glory and majesty of God, the more we shall see of the vileness and odiousness of sin, and of ourselves because of sin; and the more we shall abase and abhor ourselves for it; and repent in dust and ashes - Namely, sitting in dust and ashes. Job's afflictions had brought him to the ashes, Job 2:8, He sat down among the ashes; but now a sense of his sins brought him thither.
Observe, reader, true penitents mourn for their sins as heartily as ever they did for any outward afflictions; for they are brought to see more evil in their sins than in their troubles; and even those who have no gross enormities to repent of, yet ought to be greatly distressed in their souls for the workings of pride, self-will, peevishness, discontent, and anger, within them, and for all their hasty, unadvised speeches; for these they ought to be pricked in their hearts, and in bitterness, like Job.
Observe, also, that self- loathing is always the companion of true repentance. They shall loathe themselves for the evils they have committed, Ezekiel 6:9.
It is not sufficient that we be angry at ourselves for the wrong and damage we have, by sin, done to our own souls; but we must abhor ourselves, as having, by sin, made ourselves odious to the pure and holy God, who cannot look upon iniquity but with abhorrence. If sin in general be truly an abomination to us, sin in ourselves will especially be so; the nearer it is to us, the more loathsome it will appear to be, and the more we shall loathe ourselves on account of it.
Confess your faults one to another; pray that you will be healed.
Mount up on wings like eagles. Isaiah 40:31
Job's story has an happy ending.
Christ said when you need a word to speak or a scripture to quote it will come to your mind, because THE WORD is the LIFE of the Body (YOU).
PROPHECY:
Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my SPIRIT within you, and CAUSE you (the body) to walk in my statutes, and keep my judgements, and DO THEM.
FULFILLED at pentecost:
Philippians 2:13 For it is GOD (the life) that WORKETH IN YOU both TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.
Your (the body) lips move because the life (Christ in You) CAUSES them to move.
Job 23:12 Neither have I gone back from the commandments of HIS LIPS (you are ONE with Christ)(LIFE is Christ and BODY is You).
Job 27:4 My (yours and Christ) LIPS shall not speak wickedness, nor my tongue utter deceit.
Job 2:10 ...in all this Job did not sin with his lips.
Psalms 12:4 Who (one with no knowledge of truth) have said, With our tongue we will prevail, our lips are our own: who is Lord over us.
We were PREDESTINATED to be the IMAGE OF CHRIST.
John 5:30 I can of myself do nothing ...
Christ is the BODY that holds the LIFE of the FATHER.
John 15:5 .....for without me you can do nothing ....
WE are the BODY that holds the LIFE of Christ.
John 17:22 And the glory that thou gavest me I have given them, that they MAY BE ONE, even as WE ARE ONE.
Is it not mind boggling to walk in TRUTH.
God Bless YOU!
Hopefully this is helpful