Discuss Genesis 15 Page 3

I imagine elsewhere in your commentaries that you have pointed out the similarity of the presence of God described in Exodus as a pillar of cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night to the manifestation of God's presence that passed between the pieces of the sacrifice Abraham was command to make when God established the Covenant of the promise of the land with him in Genesis 15:17. Abraham saw a smoking furnace and a burning lamp, which to me suggests that the source of the pillar of cloud (smoke?) was connected to God's revelation in wrath and the source of the pillar of fire was connected to God's revelation through His Word acting as a lamp unto our feet even at night. Could you give your thoughts (again?) on the connection between what Abraham saw and Moses and the Israelites saw, since I appear to have missed it in what I have read so far in your commentaries?

Thank you for your input. I did eventually find some older Hebrew writing that does call out for Abraham being in Egypt three month. So this does work out with what you were stating. I just felt that this was not enough time for Abraham to gain such wealth but I will assume that Pharoah gave him all these gifts when he took Sarah and shortly thereafter Pharaoh was plagued thus this would be more than enough time. Thanks again.

I meant to say: "The circumcision of Abraham at 99 and Ishmael at 13". I accidentally wrote Issac when I meant to write Ishmael.

So, here is my effort to do the calculation of the span of time Abram may have been in Egypt. I will start using the widest span of time allowed while Abram's ages could be given as 75 and 86.

If Abram left Haran on his 75th birthday he would have been 75.0 years old. If Hagar bore Ishmael to Abram on the day before his 87th birthday he would have been 86.997 years old. This allows a maximum of 11.997 years (just under 12 years) between events.

Subtracting Hagar's pregnancy removes 0.75 years of that time and I will assume she became pregnant the same day that she was given to Abram as a wife leaving 11.247 years.

If the day Abram left Egypt and the day Saria gave Hagar to Abram occurred on the same day of the year 10 years apart that would remove 10.0 years leaving 1.247 years.

The 1.257 years has to accommodate the amount of time Abram spent traveling from Haran to Canaan and the time he sojourned in Canaan before he decided the famine was too severe and entered Egpyt. I have no way of knowing how long that took, but I'll say a little over 3 months (0.257 years). That leaves 1.0 years or a full year for Abraham to be in Egpyt.

Of course these assumptions all maximize the time Abram would have spent in Egypt and I don't think Abram spent a full year lying about Saria being his sister and allowing her to become part of pharoah's harem before God made the plagues on Pharoahs house and Abram had to leave. If those events were actually completed in 3 months (0.25 years) then the total span of time between when Abram is said to be 75 and 86 can contract by 0.75 months to be a total span of 11.247 years. If that is the case, the day Abram left Haran does not have to be his 75th birthday and the day Hagar bore him Ishmael does not have to be the day before he turned 87.

The circumcision of Abraham at 99 and Issac at 13 and Issac's birth to Abraham at 100 could refine my answer but Genesis 16 seems to allow 3 mo. min to 1 yr max for Abram's time in Egypt.

First of all your question applies to Genesis 16:1:16, not Genesis 15 where you posted your question. First I will cite the verses that provide the relevant time spans separating the events in question.

Genesis 12:4-5

4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.

5. And Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son, and all their substance that they had gathered, and the souls that they had gotten in Haran; and they went forth to go into the land of Canaan; and into the land of Canaan they came.

Genesis 12:10

And there was a famine in the land: and Abram went down into Egypt to sojourn there; for the famine was grievous in the land.

Genesis 13:1

And Abram went up out of Egypt, he, and his wife, and all that he had, and Lot with him, into the south.

Genesis 16:3

And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.

Genesis 16:16

And Abram was fourscore and six years old, when Hagar bare Ishmael to Abram.

Note that none if these events list the month or day of the year that any of these events happened and some of the events listed have no specific time reference at all. In these texts God has reserved these details as hidden things that He alone knows with certainty. He has only chosen to reveal enough information for us to apply logic to verify that these events in His words are possible, if not probable, based on what we commonly know about the span of time a person is a certain age (any day beginning on their birthday that falls within a 1 year span) and the length of time a normal pregnancy lasts (9 months, not 1 year as you have stated).

I don't have space to work out the details for you and there are later events and ages given for Abraham later that refine what you work out. However, calculating fractions is hard using rounded numbers

I have a problem that I am certain has an easy answer. How long did Abraham spend in Egypt since Sarah gave Hagar 10 years after they came back to Canaan. Ishmael was born when Abraham was 86 minus one year of being with child and then 10 years in Canaan. Abraham left Haran when he was 75, thus 75 from (86-1-10=75) leaving no time for Abraham and Sarah to live in Egypt.

I agree that Genesis 15:13-14 was fulfilled when Israel left Eygpt in Exodus 12:36, but I believe that verse 16 was not fulfilled until Judges 1:20 when Hebron was taken. In order for the 4th generation to "come back here" they had to reach Hebron where Abraham heard these words ( Genesis 14:13). Because the Amorites had just fought as Abraham's allies God would not judge them until the 4th generation after the Exodus was ready to fight them. If any 1st generation freed Israelite man that perished in the wilderness begat a son that turned 20 and begat his grandson shortly after the army census in Numbers 1:20 in turn begat his great grandson prior to the 30th year in the wilderness than a great grandson of the 1st Exodus generation fighters would have reached fighting age when Hebron was taken. Abraham was being comforted that he would die in peace and not have to witness the judgment of his allies. God delay judgment of their sins by Abraham's descendants to recognize their part in the victory Abraham had just won for his nephew Lot.

This interpretation also shows that the wilderness wandering was actually a mercy to Abraham that allowed God time to raise an army that was far more worthy of victory over Abraham's allies descendants only after God allowed the full measure of their sins to show that their descendants judgement was just. That 1st generation unbelieving army of Exodus slaves that tested God 10 times and shrank back from fighting was unworthy in God's sight of judging the sins of Abraham's Amorite allies descendants and would have been unworthy of victory over them in Abraham's sight as well.

Hi Cecil, please read Psalm 37,

I knew a guy named Cecil at Myrtle Beach Air Force Base. He adopted a 6month old baby girl that had been horrificly abused. I read your post several times. I closed the ap. Had to pray a little & think on your post. I haven't heard from our friend Cecil since I was a teenager. The MBAFB shut down shortly after those days & everyone moved away.

Cecil, GOD is Just. Have you heard of Moses? In Genesis, Abraham was promised several amazing things, a son from his 'wife', in their old age, etc. Gen. 12:2,3,7, but also that those heirs would be servant in strange land & afflicted 400 yrs. Genesis 15:12-13, if you read in depth you can find GOD's justice. Genesis 12:10-17, Genesis 16:1-16, Genesis 21:9-19 = it was in Egypt, Abraham's children of Sarah's son Isaac's offspring were afflicted.

Genesis 18, shows great mercy of GOD that if 10 righteous were in that land (Sodom & Gomorrah) it would've been spared. That's his Nephew Lot's friends & family. ?, Right here is proof the GOD interecedes on People's behalf when they obey HIM.

GOD's ways are not our ways, Isaiah 55:8,9,

We cannot blame GOD for wickedness of man = Genesis 6:5-6,

Yet GOD shows us mercy & unimaginable love, John 3:16-17, salvation through sacrifice, Psalms 18:25-27,

GOD is merciful, true & Just. If you read the books that go alongside Isaiah you'll get a clearer picture: 2Chronicles 36, Jeremiah 29, Jeremiah 51, Exodus 22:22, Isaiah 1:17, Isaiah 1:23, Jeremiah 7:6, Jeremiah 22:3, Ezekiel 22:7, Malachi 3:5, Zechariah 7:10, you can start with those verses because that's most of what GOD asked of Israel & Judah. Then please read the Books & chapters.

Then Babylon: 2Kings 20:12-18,19, Daniel 1, 2Kings 25:8-9, I stopped there because that's enough about the evil.

Hopefully these are helpful if you are trying to search for truth & understanding. You can also ask for wisdom James 1:5-6,21,

Job 38:1-41, James 4:12,

* Hebrews 7:25,

A person put over someone elses property, affairs, upkeep etc. Trusted with but belonging to another. Here are biblical examples. Genesis 1:26-30, Romans 14:12, In the Church: Hebrews 13:17, Titus 1:7,

Genesis 15:2, Gen 43:19,

Luke 16:1-15, Matthew 20:1-16, Luke 12:36-48,

Prophetic parable about Jesus & the religious Rulers of the time: Matthew 21:28-46, Luke 20:9-20, 'husbandman being "stewad" of the vineyard'

Hopefully these are helpful.

Just noticed a correlation between Pharaoh here Genesis 12:17, Genesis 15:13, Genesis 16, Genesis 20:1-18, Genesis 21:9-21, & Books of Exodus

Genesis 15:13-14, Genesis 37, Genesis 39, Genesis 40, Genesis 41, Genesis 47, Genesis 50:22,23, Exodus 1:1-7, Exodus 1:8-12. Note Exodus 1:11,20, Exodus 2:1, please note: John 8:39, biblical times lineage of Levi & Abraham very significant, therefore they would call themselves or other's by the name, many generations. Matthew 1:1, Matthew 22:42, Exodus 6:16-27, Exodus 12:40,41,

Hope this helps.

Hi Jocelynne.

The account is in Genesis 22:1-18.

It's a lot to this story than what meets the Eye.

Issac was the child of promise and heir of the blessings promised to Abraham and by which the seed would come and by which all the world would be blessed.

Genesis 15:5-6.

Genesis 21:12.

( And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.)

Now if God was going to keep his promise "WHICH HE ALWAYS DO, BECAUSE GOD CAN'T LIE" Abraham would have to believe in something else. THE RESURRECTION!!

Hebrews 11:17-19. By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; FROM WHENCE ALSO HE RECEIVED HIM IN A FIGURE.

I believe this is where the Gospel is preached to Abraham.

Galatians 3:8.

Genesis 22:14. And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovah-jireh: as it is said to this day, IN THE MOUNT OF THE LORD IT SHALL BE SEEN.

I believe the Lord Jesus was offered up on that same hill.

I hope this helps.

God bless.

The people that were close to God talked to God.Giving spiritual sacrifices as Abraham believed God for children and it was counted to him for righteousness.God say's go Abraham went.God say's stay Abraham stayed.Talk to God he loves you ,and want's the best for you.

Hi GiGi.

The Lord deliverance of Israel out of Egypt was well planned out and his glory was on display Exodus 14:4. and Romans 9:17.

And them entering Egypt was impressive as well with the Lord in total control of this from the selling of Joseph

( Genesis 50:20.) through out the blessings of Joseph. I like to view it as the Lords sovereign plan being exercised

( Genesis 15:13) rather than the brothers doing evil. God was in total control, and even over the famine.

Because all this contributed to the promise he made Abraham.

Great read.

God bless and Goodnight.

Hi Hans.

You may want to go back over what you are disagreeing on.

The Emphasis here is by faith Abraham was counted righteous APART from the deeds of the Law.

Please see Galatians 4:21-28

Here's the Context of my Original post

Galatians 4:28

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Isaac is not a Child of the flesh

" NOT OF ABRAHAM AND SARAH'S DOING THEY WERE BARREN."

The Promise was given BEFORE Abraham believed.

This promise was "INITIATED" and confirmed by a covenant back in

Genesis 15:8-12. Not in Genesis 22.

Abraham was put to sleep so God entered the covenant alone.

Only he can break it!!

It's not broken or held up by any condition of Abraham.

"A conditional covenant needs both parties passing between the divided carcass."

Now let's go over the steps in sequence.

1 Abraham is given a Promise by God.

Genesis 15:4-5.

THEN.

2 Abraham believed God. What did he believe in? God's PROMISE.

Genesis 15:6.

3rd God performs the covenant.

Genesis 15:8-12.

Note: The Land is tied to the promise, But that's for a different study.

" Hebrews 11:8-10."

THIS IS WHERE THE GOSPEL IS PREACHED TO ABRAHAM.

" Galatians 3:5-10."

1) We have God's PROMISE " His Word.

2) We have Abraham believed the PROMISE "Faith "

IMPORTANT TO NOTICE.

( Ephesians 2:8. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:)

3) In Genesis 22 We will see the Resurrection.

GENESIS 22.16.

Here in Genesis 22 what is it Abraham believed in? This is about 33 years after the "PROMISE OF ISAAC" in Genesis 15.

Answer: Hebrews 11:17-19. By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

ACCOUNTING THAT GOD WAS ABLE TO RAISE HIM UP, EVEN FROM THE DEAD; from whence also he received him in a figure.

Abraham stumbled with these promises.

Gen. 17:17-18.

Thank God it's UNCONDITIONAL.

GB

UNCONDITIONAL COVENANT TO ABRAHAM.

This is what is getting covered up by spritualizing certain text.

And How it relates to us.

Hebrews 6:13-19 (KJV) For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,

Saying, SURELY BLESSING I WILL BLESS THEE, and MULTIPLYING I WILL MULTIPLY THEE.

And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.

For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife.

Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the IMMUTABILITY of his counsel, CONFIRMED IT BY AN OATH:

That by TWO IMMUTABLE THINGS, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, BOTH SURE AND STEADFAST, AND WHICH ENTERED INTO THAT "WITHIN THE VEIL;"

Galatians 4:28. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Here's the covenant and Promise between God and Abraham.

TAKE NOTICE OF WHO IS THE LONE PARTICIPANT IN PERFORMING THE COVENANT.

Here's Isaac being Promised.

Genesis 15:4-5.

Abraham's participation.

Genesis 15:6.

Here's the covenant performed.

Genesis 15:8-11.

NOTICE WHAT GOD DOES TO ABRAHAM.

Genesis 15:12.

This covenant being instituted by God only suggests its faithfulness depended on Gods PROMISE NOT ABRAHAM'S FAITHFULNESS!!

Abraham faith was in God's PROMISE!!

That's Mercy, Grace, and Faith apart from works. And Eternal Security all in view here.

Galatians 4:28. !!

Galatians 3:8-9.

Galatians 3:13-15.

THE PROMISE OF A SAVIOR GIVEN BEFORE THE INSTITUTION OF THE MINISTRATION OF DEATH!!

Galatians 3:16-17.

2 Corinthians 3.

Galatians 3:18.

THE TRUE VINE!

AND OPERATION OF THE HOLYSPIRIT IN THE NEW COVENANT.

Hebrews 10:16.

Romans 6:6.

Romans 8:10-11.

( 2 Corinthians 3:5. )

This is what's being attacked by those crept in from unawares.

God bless.

Good, you're at the right site. Start reading the WORD written inside by clicking the Books, I like Luke when I started that was great to show me as new study who Christ Jesus was, is & is to come. Hover over the scripture here, should bring you straight to it.

Luke 1:1-4, you can continue to read by clicking read full chapter the scroll down, click tab on edges to next chapter, etc. Many people enjoy Psalms, I didn't enjoy it as much as a new beginner study but do enjoy it much more now after years of study.

Psalms 1:1-3,

U may enjoy Exodus, which actually begins in Genesis 37:1-36, continues : Genesis 39:1-23, Genesis 40:1-23, Genesis 41:1-57, Genesis 42:1-38, Genesis 43:1-34, Genesis 44:1-34,

[Note this scripture chapter 44, Genesis, if you noticed we skipped Genesis 38, because it jumps from Joseph to Judah. Now if you read Genesis 38:1-30, you can understand a few things on deeper level = Judah maybe knows painful loss of children at this point in his life & even the difference of love towards children of his "loved wife". Next very importance of Judah's sacrifice for others, resemblance of Jesus sacrifice being beloved Son of GOD. John 3:16, ]also interesting Tamar, bore to Judah the son in Jesus documented lineage Matthew 1:1-3]

Back to story : Genesis 45:1-28, (forgiveness), Genesis 46:1-34, Genesis 47:1-12 (Redemption) Genesis 47:27-31,

Now note: Genesis 47:13-26 , Genesis 12:1-3, Genesis 12:10, Genesis 12:11-16, * Genesis 12:13-20, Genesis 16:3, Genesis 16:6-11, Genesis 15:13-14, Genesis 21:8-21, my own opinion Deuteronomy 32:35-36, Romans 12:19.

These moments in Genesis leading up to how & why Israel came into bondage. Exodus 1:1-8, continue reading Exodus 1:22, please continue to read all of Exodus.

One more encouraging note :) Hebrews 11:22, Psalms 105:1-45,

Furthermore on this site under the 1611 Version tab you can scroll to see more history on the Bible.

Hopefully these inspire a new lifetime desire of deeper study

That is lovely, sister. Keep writing - for the Glory of God & blessing of the saints.

yes, yes, yes!

Thanks Chris,

here is the second stanza, and I did put it to music although i am not a musician, more of a poet or lyricist.

Oh, to see you in Your Glory;

and behold Your majesty;

Oh, to be captured by Your beauty

In Your holiness and power

I'll have to find my folder that has my lyrics in it. It is in the shed in a box. haven't written any songs for some time.

Yes indeed GiGi, the LORD God is & can only be Spirit in both His Essence & Form. And through His Being, He is able to send out His Spirit to accomplish His purposes & also His Word to embody it in whatever Form He wishes. For our sakes, His Word became flesh & dwelt among us.

We are generally told that Jesus came down from Heaven for the sake of suffering & death, taking on humanity. I think this is spoken of in such manner as the deeper theological aspect of it is being 'spared' us; i.e. it's easier to say & comprehend that Jesus came down instead of God's Word changed in composition for the sake of sinners. I liken this to asking Jesus into one's heart when invited to repent & believe. Theologically speaking, we are repenting, believing, being born again, with the Holy Spirit (Christ's Spirit) coming to indwell us. Yes, Jesus does come in, but does so by His Spirit - and I support this by the fact that Jesus, as God in the flesh, is ascended & seated at His Father's right Hand ( Colossians 3:1 & others). At least that's the only way I can understand & apply the Scriptures that speak of this matter.

And that's a wonderful stanza of your song - very pointed - very apt. Did you put those words into music? I can almost hear it being sung in Heaven with music written from above.

I have been taught that the Father is completely Spirit and cannot be seen by beings he created. But I was taught that Jesus had a form before His incarnation and the Father resides in Him, as Jesus stated this in John 14:7, 9-11. Even though the Father is completely Spirit, it does not mean that He is not personal. But we experience Him through Jesus Christ. The Spirit is also obviously completely Spirit. He is able to reside in us, therefore bringing Jesus and the Father to also reside in each believer. It is such a mystery.

Many years ago I wrote a song and the first stanza said,

Father, Son, and Holy Spirit'

Three in One; yet One in Three;

Holy God, the One the Only;

Oh, to grasp Your Mystery!

Amen Brother Carleton!!

Galatians 3:17. And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. There's a lot tied to that promise. The birth of Isaac was a product of that promise, So are we.

Galatians 4:28. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Abrahams offering up of Issac demonstrates the prophetic Ties the promise has with the Resurrection and new life by the Spirit.

Hebrews 11:18-19. Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

Genesis 15:1-18.

God bless you brother.

Hello Leo. The emotional & spiritual conflict that Abraham would have gone through, from the time the command was given to the raising of the knife against his son, would have been so real & devastating. But Abraham knew his God. The God Who would provide Isaac as the "heir of promise" ( Genesis 15:4), now fulfilled that promise, & had something special planned that cannot disannul His Word. Abraham didn't know how, he only knew this God & that God's Promise would never fail.

If Satan was evident, it would have been sinful flesh working in Abraham's heart & mind to somehow avoid or change this 'awful' plan. It would have been Satan's delight to see Abraham cower down & refuse. But it was Abraham's singular focus to obey his God no matter what was asked of him (he might have even recalled the Lord's Directive to leave the Ur of the Chaldees & then Haran, not knowing what lay ahead). The provision of the ram in place of Isaac is clearly a picture of God providing His Sacrifice in our place. God could have allowed Isaac to lose his life through sacrifice & then raised up another. But the provision of the ram shows that each life is precious to God & there should never be an occasion for a life to die & face eternal judgement - that the ram was Isaac's substitute in death as the Lord Jesus is ours, hence providing the means for God to forgive us, as the Just takes on the punishment of the unjust.

Hello Wayne. There are various applications for the use of 'Lord' in the Bible. When you see it capitalized (LORD) as in Genesis 2:4, it conveys to us the meaning, that only Almighty God is referred to here. The Jewish use of Jehovah (YHWH, which is the tetragrammaton of Yahweh), signifies that God, the Eternal, Self-Existent One is spoken of. Of course, Jews won't write or speak this Name, lest they do so incorrectly & offend God. So, in English, you may see it written as G_d, or HaShem (= the Name).

Then you will see the words 'Lord' or 'lord' in the Bible. For 'Lord': the word is 'Adonai', which is also the Name attributed to God & this means, 'master, lord, sovereign'. And sometimes, you can see both of the above together, as in Genesis 15:2: "And Abram said, Lord GOD, what wilt thou give me...", where Lord is not capitalized but God is.

And 'lord' is also seen, as in Genesis 31:35 from the root, 'adoni', used mainly with mankind. And this word can mean: master, lord, sir, even husband, in an older usage.

Hope this helps as you see these words being used throughout Scriptures - and yet, other names have been applied to God, especially compound names which describe the Character or Activity of God.

Dear Chris,

holysprit reval this answer through you brother ,God bless you

Hello Prasanth. In Genesis 15:1, Abram received a vision from God & in it God spoke to Him. As declared to us in the Bible, the Essence of God's Being revealed to us is His Word & His Spirit: not three gods, but One God manifested in the fulness of His Being. So when God speaks, as here, & many other places in the Bible, He is sending out His Word to inform or alert man.

But when God planned at a specific time that One should lay down His Life for the sins of mankind, instead of giving another animal for sacrifice or creating another man for this purpose, God sent forth His Word (from within Himself), clothed it with flesh, so that the Word of God could now be seen & heard by His people ( John 1:1-14; Hebrews 1:1-6) & ultimately lay down His Life for us all ( John 10:14-18; 1 John 3:16). So the Word of God came into the world formed as a human babe & was called the Son of God ( Luke 1:35).

Dear Sir,

My question is one thing Gensis 5:1 refers word of God came to Abram, who is word of God , Is word of God is father ,son or holyspirit

Pray for the Israelite people all over our world and in Israel. Pray that many will come to believe in Jesus like so many did in the time of the apostles. Pray that they will be freed from wrong beliefs by exposure to the truth of the Word of God.

This passage says all nations will be blessed through the heirs of Abraham. Therefore, we have been blessed, especially by Jesus. We should wish to bless the Israelites wherever they are. God said in this passage He will bless those who bless these people.

God knows who are His in this world, whether Christians or Israelites saves by grace. He will fulfill his Word, promises, and plan for the ages. Praise be to the God of all!

Back to the chapter, The other thing that stood out to me in this chapter was that God had put Abraham into a deep sleep and then told him about the 400 years of slavery his descendants would spend in Egypt. I wonder, was Abraham able to hear this or was the prophecy implanted in his being somehow? Did God do this in this way in order to speak the prophecy but not disturb Abraham in this time of giving promises and making a covenant? Perhaps God gave this prophecy ( and willed it to occur) because of the wickedness of the Canaanites (that was not yet full) may have drawn the Israelites away from God more than the influence of Egypt for these 400 years.

Some people have commented about the re-establishment of Israel to the Jewish people. Some say that those currently occupying Israel are not genetically Jews but Khazars. I've read some about this idea. Some sources say that DNA of the Ashkenazi Jews (originally from the Khazar region) have Jewish descent. They may be mixed blood. Also, there are Sephardic Jews that have returned to Israel. And I read that there were people of Israelite genetic make-up living in Israel before it became an independent state. Concerning Zionism, it does have many aspects that are not biblically sound. Even so, Israel has been re-established and open to receive those of Abraham's seed to the state.

Also, I read that only people of Israeli descent (perhaps even only Jewish) can be citizens in Israel. Everyone else is considered a resident alien. This contributes to the strife between the Israelis and Palestinians. Palestinians never had their own state in this region. But they desire it, since they have been there for a long time. so, having the Jews be given the area for a Jewish state results in strife in this area. I don't think it will ever be settled. Israel's borders are smaller that the area promised to Abraham by God. They do not yet possess all of the land of Promise yet.

I recommend reading up on this subject.