Ephesians
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Friend,
You says, Paul was an exception to the rule? Would you please prove this by the Scriptures.
You says, Jesus comes into my heart, should be taken figuratively? 1Cor 3:16,17 2Cor 13:5 Col 1:27 Ephesians 2:22 Where else could He desire to be but within our heart, the seat & center of our very being. Proverbs 4:23 1Samuel 16:17
You say this sounds strange?
Consider also John 17:21-24 the oneness & unity that God desires to have with His people, this is what God has set His heart on Jeremiah 32:40,41 & made available thru the NC; this is a God, that has said, with all His heart & soul ! Come on; have a little faith.
We're heirs of God & joint heirs of Christ, it is God Himself that is our inheritance Psalms 119:57 Psalms 73:26
You says, not by one staying home & God teaching him. This is exactly what God has done through the spiritual writing of the Quakers, specifically from 1646-1700 through the gifts Christ gave His church; in their writing I discover the intent of God's heart to cleanse one from all sin, & being united with God through Christ, which the Scriptures so manifestly declares & how God accomplishes it. Isa 64:4 1Cor 2:9 Psalms 130:5 I'm talking about that Word that is Rom 10:8 that comes by 10:17 Meaning Christ spiritual appearance within conscience/heart John 1:9 Titus 2:11 Obeying His Father commands 2Cor 4:6 which is the Treasure we have in these earthen vessels. 2Cor 4:7 to know the things that are freely given to us 1Cor 2:12
Part 1
I'm enjoying my day, especially when I can sit down in front of my computer for a chance and not rely on my cellphone to communicate. I hope you are doing the same.
John 4:21-24 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
This worshiping God "who is spirit" and worshipping in truth and in spirit this ability to do so was done at the cross!
This is where the Church begin, and the partition moved out of the way for the Gentiles.
Ephesians 2:13-22
But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and HATH BROKEN DOWN THE MIDDLE WALL OF PARTITION BETWEEN US;
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
AND ARE BUILT UPON THE FOUNDATION OF THE APOSTLES AND PROPHETS, JESUS BEING THE CHIEF CORNER STONE;
In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
See part 2.
The Foundation and Corner stone.
Thanks David0921; I think that this matter of 'believing on God' or even 'believing that God is able', is to be seen as different as to what we call 'saving faith', or a faith (act of trusting) in God to effect His Work of Salvation. It might sound like a 'grasping at straws' to convince another, but for me to adequately understand & apply this matter of 'ordinary faith & saving faith', is important. In the case of the OT folk, as we read here in Romans 4 about Abraham & David, the mention of Abraham's faith being "counted for righteousness", I understand that from what he knew & experienced of God, he exhibited human (ordinary) faith towards Him. And this was a faith based on his knowledge & his works to please God (as with Enoch, Hebrews 11:5). I don't perceive this was a special gift of faith for these men to exhibit, but an ordinary faith resulting from God revealing Himself to them & their desire to serve only Him.
But then we come to the NT & Ephesians 2:8,9. Even though unregenerate man, as those of the OT, can still express faith, whether towards God or man, in Ephesians we see that for the saving Work of Christ to be effective, we have the indivisible combination of both God's Grace & His Faith given for that to happen. In other words, God could have just given the sinner His Grace by way of sending His Son for them, but can that sinner, from an unregenerate heart, create a faith that can truly understand, embrace, & consistently live out the great salvation of God? And that is why Ephesians 2:8 shows, "and that not of yourselves": the Gift of God is both His Grace & His Faith that would instigate & complete salvation in that lost soul. Onto Page 2.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9) NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast.
10)For we are his workmanship, CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS "UNTO GOOD WORKS", which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
11)Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12) That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13)But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off ARE MADE NIGH BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST.
THIS IS MARVELOUS SAYING! HERE'S WHERE YOU SEE THE CIRCUMCISION OF THE HEART AS MENTIONED IN ROMANS 2:26-29.
"Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. ( In these verses Jew is not mentioned to describe an ethnic group but rather to describe the performance and seal of the cutting away the flesh.)
WE GENTILES ARE BROUGHT NEAR BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST, NOT CIRCUMCISION OF THE FLESH THAT RESPRESENTS THE JEW AND ALL OF THEIR WRITTEN ARTICLES WHEREBY THEY WERE COMMANDED. ( We're joined by the promise given to Abraham
Galatians 3:14-18.
Galatians 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: FOR IF THERE HAD BEEN A LAW GIVEN WHICH COULD HAVE GIVEN LIFE, VERILY RIGHTEOUSNESS SHOULD HAVE BEEN BY THE LAW.
God bless.
Isa 53 The appearances of the Just One.
Isa 59:16,17 Isa 63:5 fulfilled John 1:14 John 3:17
53 explains Christ patience's, trials, tribulations & suffering of His life in the great work of man redemption. In His humiliations, being despises, rejected, His not be esteem for who He really was John 1:11 & the world by Whom they were created. The sorrows & griefs He bare on our behalf, His Spirit being wounded for our transgression, & bruised for our iniquities, having the chastisement of our peace laid upon Him.
God, Ephesians 2:4 has left nothing undone in accomplishing this for us, a complete deliverance from sin; spirit, soul & body of the sons & daughters of men from Satan kingdom. Throughout His life & His passion ( the final day of His life) is describe fully here & we see it displayed throughout His life in His humanity, Hebrews 2:17,18
Isa 53:10 shows the delight of the Father's heart, as Christ fulfills every requirement of the Law, satisfying the Court in heaven Daniel 7:9-10 Daniel 7:13,14 being given a Kingdom, with Matt 28:18 literally untying the Father's hands so He could reach out to His beloved creatures in the Grace that He has now provided for us through His Son, 2 Cor 5:18-21
Isa 53:11,12 Grace appearance provides the knowledge that shall justify many, Rom 3:24 Titus 2:11,12 Luke 4:22
In my statement: "is it of Works (& then God judges them on their love & faith in Him & then applying Jesus' Blood also to them), or is it only of Faith (where our sin was judged at the Cross) & our works will follow?", I was referring to the OT saints in their standing before God with their love, devotion & faith to keep & deliver them. I don't believe that their expression of 'faith' was a gift of God (though certainly a mark that becomes those who are the Elect of God), as is the Faith that has been given us post-Cross ( Ephesians 2:8,9: God's Grace plus His Gift of Faith to us leads us to receive His Salvation): I think a slight difference to what you believe ("that our Faith and our Belief are the Result of our salvation).
Their devotion & diligence to God's Commandments were sufficient to also make them heirs of salvation, looking forward to Christ's Sacrifice that would avail to them as well. Theirs was Works-based but believing in the God Whom they served to not fail them, with the Cross ahead of them. Ours is Grace-based, having done nothing worthy (or could ever do) to deserve His Favor, & no Law that we could call upon that would assist us; for the Cross is behind us, the Work fully completed & no effort on our part could ever contribute to that glorious salvation or make it more secure. So thank you for your comment - I believe we have much agreement here.
Jesus came not to abrogated the Law, but to fulfill it, Matt 5:17-20; & all who follow Him in the regeneration fulfills it too! For He is John 14:6; He leads us in the same path that He, Himself walk in, opening up the new & living Way for us, that we may 1 John 2:3-7; fulfilling all the requirements of the Law.
How is all of this accomplish? By picking up the Cross & following Christ in the regeneration unto the new birth. Both the dying indeed unto to sin by Grace appearance Rom 6:18,19; & by becoming partakers 2 Pet 1:4; through the exercising of the Gal 5:22-25; by Grace appearance. For He who show us what sin is & to be deny, also show us what righteousness is & how it is to be exercised. Rom 13:14;
This is what the Law couldn't do Gal 3:21-27; through the weakness of the flesh sold under sin, it couldn't restore us to the Life of God that we were created in. But the faith Rom 10:17; which is in Rom 10:8; that Paul preached could. Gal 3:2; obedience leads to ever increasing measure of His Spirit, an enduement of His Spirit of Grace, "Power".
The Law could not make us partakers of the Divine Nature, which against such there is no law, only with the coming of John 1:14; John 1:17; could this be fulfilled in us, through Christ by the Spirit in the new birth. Ephesians 2:15,16; He abolish it, by fulfilling it in His flesh, & so must all who are His, bringing us unto the new creature. Col 3:10;
"For when there was no one to help, not one to open the seals, Rev 5:1-5; to give knowledge, to direct the course of poor man's recovery, He came in the greatness of his love and strength; and though clothed with the infirmities of a mortal man, being within fortified with the almightiness of an immortal God, He traveled through all the straits and difficulties of humanity, and first, of all others, Hebrews 5:8; trod the un-trodden path to blessedness. Quote; No Cross, No Crown by William Penn"
Jesus has left nothing undone for us, we must follow His pattern.
Christ has already come & that in Spirit, He told His disciples; Mark 9:1; Matt 16:28; over 2000 yrs ago, which came in full power at Pentecost.
I will not leave you comfortless, but you will see me again, that your joy maybe full, & Christ doesn't come alone, He brings His Father within Him, They became Ephesians 2:22; John 17:21-23; & they Micah 4:3;
Hebrews 9:28; is Titus 2:11; diffusing the fragrance of His knowledge in every heart. 2Cor 4:6 This is Titus 2:13; describing His 2nd appearance in Spirit. Who continually gives of Himself that Titus 2:14;
As for this son of perdition; it's the old Adamic nature that is rule by Ephesians 6:12; who's coming 2Thessalonians 2:9; this spirit works even deceive the very elect, who, we all must engage with within 2 Cor 10:3-5; Jesus says; Matt 15:18,19; for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, so their within us. Think about this, we all have these thoughts spring up within us, 1 Pet 4:3; thus Jesus commands; Luke 14:27; The ones, Satan does deceive is explain, 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12; they refuse to believe the Witness, whom God has place within conscience. John 16:8; John 12:47-50; Jesus says, 8:24; Therefore were He has gone one cannot go.
Both seeds are spiritual, both kingdoms are within mankind.
This rapture theory John 17:11:15 "not to take them out of the world". But describes receiving 1Pet 1:5-9;The cumulation is the Baptism of the Holy Spirt, describing 2 Cor 10:6; resulting from Titus 3:5; by 1Pet 1:23; unto John 3:3; the chaff, ( old man sin nature is thoroughly purges out without a trace, Daniel 2:34,35; these earthen vessels, 1Cor 15:48,49; ) the wheat (new man created in the image of Him that created him) is gather unto the Gardener, we're His & He's ours, Acts 1:9-11; Daniel 7:13;
It's a spiritual encounter & habitation with the One true God, John 17:24; here & now, Acts 4:32,33;
Do you perceive the wonderous honor & glory of God's Great Salvation, on earth as it is in heaven.
I haven't been able to get away to participate by reading the bulk of the posts and replies on the 10 commandment topic.
I would like to mention a misunderstanding in the communication between the several views on this topic.
There's a difference in the 10 commandments being Holy and being justified by keeping them.
We say Israel failed to be a witness but is that totally accurate?
How did they fail? By not keeping the law?
Before anyone answer that I would like for us to consider a few things.
1) Israel keeps the Law far better than any nation ever has!!
2) The law was given to Israel. Romans 9:4. So they had a ministry to minister to the Whole world as "fleshly" Children of an active, living, Holy God.
This ministry was called ministration of death..
2 Corinthians 3:6-9.
They were examples for us and this is written to us.
They successfully showed the world what Paul stated in Romans 7:5-14.
The world is unable to be Justified by the Law.
3) To say Israel failed for not keeping the law is not exactly correct.
They failed by thinking they were justified by the law.( Not just the 10 commandments ) after all there were articles for certain sins.
They failed because they stumbled at that stumblingstone!
That's where they failed!!
Romans 9:31-33.
They all didn't fail, there was a remnant according to the election of grace and still is.
Romans 11:4-8.
vs 5) Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant (ACCORDING TO THE ELECTION OF GRACE!)
This election is not determined by works.
In other words works wasn't elected as God's way to justify his people.
Romans 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;
Yes the law is Holy and we all fail to be Justified by it, so we were all dead in trespasses and sins.
This is where the cross comes in.
Ephesians 2:1-5.
God bless.
When we take Ephesians 2:14-18, as confirmation that God is through with National Israel we need to examine that further.
Ephesians 2:14-18 Establishes the Church.
Ephesians 2:12
That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
We see in this verse that the Gentiles were added to make up the body "Not Israel"
When the early Church started they were nearly All Jews.
The middle wall of partition was broken down for the Gentiles,
They were the strangers. Keep in mind these are the Messianic Jews. ( BOTH THE JEWS AND GENTILES SAVED BY ONE WAY, CHRIST. )
So what you see here "in regards to Salvation, there is NO Dispensation. "As always and forever" Christ is savior and the only way for all.
There is a dispensation in the believers view point in regards to time.
Israel in the OT looked forward to one who was coming.
Today Beleiving Jews and Gentiles looks back at one who has came.
So we have two groups here that forms the Church.
So we start with three Groups here. The Nation Israel divided up in two groups. "The believers and those who remained blinded. "
Also the believing Jews and the Gentiles.
In Romans chapters 9, 10, and 11 we see Paul deals with these same three groups.
You see two saved and forming the church.
You see one that has been broken off because of non-belief.
You see the same order of sequence as you do in Ephesians. The Gentiles added or "Grafted into the common wealth of Israel.
Romans 11:1-36 focus is on the broken off Group with the conclusion in vs 26. ( And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:)
PLEASE READ ROMANS 11.
This is not talking about the Church, They're already mentioned throughout these 3 chapters as already saved.
Gad bless.
Part 2
2 To make an end of sins (Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law). The verb in the Hebrew text translated as "put an end to" can mean "to seal up". The covering of our sins was accomplished on the cross at Calvary. When he said IT IS FINISHED, he provided us with the garments (wedding garments) to cover our sins. Psalm 32:1-2 Matthew 1:21 John 1:29 Romans 8:3 1 Corinthians 15:3 Hebrews 10:8-11 1 John 3:5 Revelation 16:15.
Is there still sin today? Yes. Will there still be sin and death after Jesus's second coming? Yes. Even during the 1000 years, there will be sin and death until all is made new Rev. 21:1-4 but through Jesus, they are covered and sealed, Rev. 16:15
3 To make reconciliation for iniquity (Reconciliation is an element of salvation that refers to the results of the atonement, iniquity is guilt, crookedness, perverseness, that which is not straight or upright, moral distortion, in the dark. Colossians 1:20-22 Isaiah 53:6 Isaiah 53:11 Ephesians 2:16 Titus 2:14 2 Corinthians 5:18-19.
The word reconcile means to bring back to a former state of harmony Jesus reconciled both Jew and Gentile unto God in one body by the cross and now through Jesus we both Jew and Gentile have access by one Spirit unto the Father no more strangers or foreigners but fellow citizens. Making reconciliation for iniquity concerns our involvement in the work of salvation.
4 To bring in everlasting righteousness. Everlasting, no end, righteousness, justice, mercy, loving-kindness, in conformity to the demands of the covenant and according to God's will, fair and balanced. Isaiah 61:10-11 2 Corinthians 5:21 Romans 3:21-26 Romans 5:17-21 1 Peter 2:24.
See Part 3
Different Dispensations? No
Divisions in the Word of God? No
So what?
Continuity.
Often we hear about different dispensations of God's grace to different people through history. Like to Israel and to the church. But is this so?
Let's start from Ephesians 2:14-18, "(14) For he(Jesus) is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; (15) Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; (16) And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: (17)And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. (18) For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father"
The above says clearly that God united Israel with the rest of the nations (who hath made both one). Israel is no longer considered as a separate people from the rest of the people but as one unified body. Israel and the Gentiles are now ONE BODY, the Church.
Often it is said that God made 2 Testaments, one (the Old) for Israel and the second and final for the gentiles. Right? No, it's wrong. God made the New Testament initially for the Hebrews.
Hebrews 8:8-10, "(8) ... He(God) saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: (9) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. (10) For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people"
I will give you some of the scriptures that says we died on the cross with Christ and were raised with Christ, the first resurrection.
2 Corinthians 5:14 .... that if ONE died for ALL,then were all DEAD.
Colossians 3:3 For ye are DEAD, and your life is hid with Christ IN God.
Romans 6:6 ....our old man is CRUCIFIED with him .......
Galatians 2:20 I am CRUCIFIED with Christ: nevertheless I live, YET NOT I, but Christ liveth in ME .....
Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised US UP TOGETHER ......
Isaiah 26:9 Thy DEAD men shall arise, TOGETHER with my dead body shall they ARISE ....
Revelation 20:6 Blessed and Holy is he that hath part in the FIRST RESURRECTION .....
God bless you
John 5:24. actually says exactly that along with a accumulation of scripture when discerning them properly.
Here's John 5:24. "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; BUT IS PASSED FROM DEATH UNTO LIFE".
Also see John 11:25-26.
There's physical death and there is spiritual death.
Everyone will die the physical death, ( Once.) Hebrews 9:27. Jesus took care of the Spitual death on the cross.
Those who haven't trusted Christ is ALREADY SPIRITUALLY DEAD! There is no sequence to this. You see it in Jude 1:12 "These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, TWICE DEAD, plucked up by the roots;
Revelation 20:13-14. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. THIS IS THE SECOND DEATH.
This concept is spreaded broadly throughout scripture when interpreted right.
Romans 6:3-11.
Ephesians 2:1-9. And you HATH HE QUICKENED, who were dead in trespasses and sins: He gave life!
This is there present condition.
He didn't say "You whom he WILL quicken!"
If we don't have eternal life now, we don't have nothing to apply our faith to.
God bless.
It is important to understand that when God promises salvation for us in New Testament Scripture, He immediately saves us when we have belief and trust in the work of Jesus Christ.
The text which I believe conveys this point is Acts 8:37, where it says: "And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."
If salvation is not produced through baptism or any human effort, then the Ethiopian eunuch was saved instantly before he was baptized. He was baptized into the Holy Spirit by Jesus Christ (read Matthew 3, Mark 1, John 1, and Acts 1) prior to physical baptism. Salvation is by faith alone. If someone dies in a car accident after accepting Jesus as their savior (coming to faith in His bloody death, burial, and resurrection) through a radio show, that person is in heaven at the moment of his death. Paul put it like this: " [Jesus] hath [present tense] raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus ( Ephesians 2:6)."
I hope this helped!
GOD to shine HIS face on all who love and trust HIM; and bless us all gloriously. 2 Chronicles 7:14, 15; Galatians 5:16; Matthew 28:18-20;
2 Peter 3:9; Titus 2: 11-14;
Ephesians 2: 8-10
Thank YOU FATHER for preserving YOUR word for our daily use. May we enter into the harvest and seek to fulfill YOUR will in us.
GOD bless and provide for all on this forum.
June 10, 2023
I understand why we might concoct a theory of an "age of accountability". But God puts that idea to rest in very clear and concise language.
Psalms 58:3
The wicked are ESTRANGED from the WOMB: they go ASTRAY as soon as they BE BORN, speaking lies.
Romans 3:10-18
As it is written, There is NONE righteous, no, NOT ONE : There is NONE that understandeth, there is NONE that seeketh after God. They are ALL gone out of the way, they are TOGETHER become unprofitable; there is NONE that doeth good, no, NOT ONE. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Ephesians 2:1
And you hath he quickened, who were DEAD in trespasses and sins;
Because of Adam's sin, mankind is infected with SIN and is spiritually DEAD from the moment of conception. And it requires God's action to change that condition. The Bible declares that action as becoming BORN AGAIN. That is SALVATION.
There is no "age of accountability". No matter how much we may wish it to be so.
Apart from salvation, a new born baby is subject to the wrath of God and eternal death, whatever that may be.
Do you believe what THE WORD says.
1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all shall be made alive.
Has this not already happen, at the cross and resurrection?
Galatians 2:20 I am Crucified with Christ ...
Are not these words for ALL men, do you believe you were crucified with Christ 2000 years ago, not yet born, but reaping the gift of God.
Ephesians 2:8 For BY GRACE are you SAVED (given immortal LIFE) ......
This happened 2000 years ago, do you believe you were given this gift of God before you ever knew to do right or wrong?
Romans 9:11 For the children (the new creation, Christ in you) being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to the election (of Grace) might stand not of works, but of him (the Holy Ghost) that CALLETH.
Is it not God that is doing ALL THINGS according to his good pleasure.
Are not ALL men a POT and God the POTTER?
Is not God going to DESTROY ALL marred POTS and remake them into vessels of HONOUR.
All this was done at the cross and RESURRECTION.
God will CAUSE his creation to come to TRUTH at his good pleasure.
It's all THE WORKS of God, man has no say in what God see fit to do, we just know what the END will be.
1 Corinthians 15:28 ..... GOD will be ALL in ALL.
God bless you.
I am unaware of any verse or passage in the Bible that speaks of an "age of accountability".
The Bible does say some very ugly things about our condition from the moment of conception apart from salvation. And that we are spiritually DEAD.
Psalms 58:3
The wicked are estranged from the WOMB: they go astray as soon as they BE BORN, speaking lies.
Romans 3:10-18
As it is written, There is NONE righteous, no, not one: There is NONE that understandeth, there is NONE that seeketh after God. They are ALL gone out of the way, they are TOGETHER become unprofitable; there is NONE that doeth good, no, NOT ONE. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Ephesians 2:1
And you hath he quickened, who were DEAD in trespasses and sins;
Part 2
Jesus was a descendant of Judah through David's lineage (which was the line from which kings were to be chosen).
So Cheryl, this is the breakdown of the line of Shem, Noah's son.
The descendants of Japheth (Noah's son) populated the areas of southern Europe and north of Turkey. From these regions, the descendants of Japheth spread out north and east and west. Japheth's descendants were the most numerous of the three sons.
The descendants of Ham settled in the land of Canaan, Egypt, Ethiopia, and most of the African continent. It is believed that they also settled lands around the Indian Ocean.
So, we are not all Hebrews. People are either descended from Shem, Ham, and Japheth. Most of us are descended from more than one of these sons as intermarriage among cousins was common practice in the time of Noah's sons and descendants.
But, to answer your question, Adam and Eve were not Hebrews. The Hebrew people came to be after the flood. The world was populated by the descendants of Noah's three sons. Anyone who was not descended from Jacob (Israel) was a Gentile, as were everyone who came before Jacob.
Paul tells us in Romans 10:12; Galatians 3:7; 3:28-29; Ephesians 2:13-19 that in Christ we are all one in Him, neither Jew nor Greek (gentile) and are all children of Abraham due to our faith in Jesus. Together we are united in Jesus comprising "one new man" in Him, the promised Seed of Abraham to whom the covenant comes to fulfillment. Because Jesus is the true and intended final heir to the covenant made to Abraham, we in Him are made heirs to this covenant also because of our union with Christ.
Cheryl. I do not know how much more you wish to know on this topic. Maybe you can reply to me whatever you want further explanation. I will try to help with what you are seeking in your original post and any subsequent ones.
Even so, those of us who are in Christ are neither Jew nor Gentile
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:8-10
It is by the Grace of God that we are saved, this is through faith in Jesus Christ alone, if not for the unmerited favour towards us all, faith would not have come to us. We were unable to believe before the Holy ghost revealed Christ to us, God choose us, he called us and elected us.
We did not know trust or even know the gospel of Christ. Yet we are gifted but undeserving, knowing We bring nothing to the table, and have nothing to offer; we all start from the same line, sinners.
That is what we are. Thereby we boost not in ourselves or the works and achievements we have or might attained, for we are His, so we boost in God, and all he has worked in us. He is the builder and authe, Knowing who we are, and all we would do, but yet he died for us, who betrayed him. This is grace, this is Gods love. Turn to him, believe and be saved.
Father we thank you today, that you have graced us with your Holy word, which is true and never failing. we thank you for your grace which you shower upon believers and unbelievers alike, we thank you for your mercy and forbearance towards our infirmities. Help us to do the good that you have prepared for us and to walk and live in them as it becomes our way of life.
Having an Ecclesiastes 7:10 moment is something I have asked myself; being born in the "baby boomer" era in the 60's. I was; admittedly well protected from knowing about the Vietnam war fought overseas or anyone involved in it with my parents raising me. It was high school before a friend of mine whose older brother was affected from being there where I got my first exposure to the effects of that conflict. I was in an affluent upper middle class neighborhood; an only child who got all the attention at Christmas with material goods; enough to eat; enough sleep and whose world was not much more than what was in my neighborhood where my schools were; and a couple local shopping centers. Time seemed to go real slow; and I always enjoyed going to the shore on summer vacations. Basically; I didn't have too many cares in life.
Things would mar that utopia for me; first my dad's mentally abusive behavior; then bullies who would beat me up; steal from me and otherwise mistreat me from about 3rd grade up through high school. I thank God that I had the opportunity after 2 individuals witnessed to me to come to Christ in Senior High.
It is easy to be selective only remembering good times in the past. I certainly had less responsibilities before taking on steady work and marrying shortly after college.
Today; with all the structures of society tearing apart I have found it easy to succumb to constant fear. Knowing the horror of the Tribulation to come it is worse if I don't warn others but also it is necessary to remember that my life is hidden in Christ. ( Colossians 3:3). Fear of death is something that some have their whole lives ( Heb. 2:15). 1 Cor. 15:66 states that the sting of sin is death. Knowing we must pass through the Tribulation before He comes back to rule and reign even if I'm raptured and not here still is grievous thinking of others in it. These things must come to pass in His plans.
I think we both agree that the atoning blood sacrifice of Jesus Christ is very important. I was drawn to your comparison of Colossians 1:14 between the NIV and the KJB. I do not own an NIV but I have a few bible software programs that give me access to multiple bibles.
Anyway, I looked this up for myself. You are correct. But was it the intent of the NIV to eliminate or diminish the blood sacrifice? I don't believe so. I read a little further down in the same chapter (Verse 20) which reads, "and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross"
If it was the intent of the NIV to leave out the words "through His blood," why would it be mentioned in other places, especially in Ephesians 1:7 (NIV) which reads, "In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins."
You would think that if the NIV was intentionally trying to remove the blood sacrifice, then it would not be found in any other place.
Is there any reason why you fail to mention other verses in the NIV such as Romans 3:25 that says "God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood," 1 Peter 1:18-19 which mentions the precious blood of Christ, Ephesians 2:13 which says we have been brought near by the blood of Christ," Hebrews 9:14, "How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!" or Revelation 1:5 which says "To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood."
It doesn't seem fair to only bring up Colossians 1:14 without mentioning these other verses, especially Ephesians 1:7.
I am not defending the NIV, but I'm also not condemning it either.
Blessings to you in Christ Jesus!
This being the Sunday where we honor Jesus' Resurrection; I don't want to delve too deeply into a new subject of controversy to stimulate discussion. I am planning; Lord willing to tackle the topic of "once saved; always saved" in terms of what (in the correct sense) that means; and what it doesn't mean. Ephesians 2:6-7 seems to indicate that we are in some sense "already raised" with Him; and glorification seems to be the final result of a saved individual after glorification according to Romans 8:30. That also; BTW matches up with John 3:16 with an ongoing (as the Greek indicates) process; rather than someone who believes in a mere confession never dying. These verses fit into the first concept that those who are called and chosen have what we may call undue "favor" on their lives; preserved on this earth until in time and space a verbal confession and change of heart occurs ( Romans 10:9). Also it is a continuing process of sanctification; resulting in good fruit being produced. I will fill in more scripture later on based on that topic.
A basic stumbling block is those who say that any sin can make us disqualified to enter heaven. 1 John 1:10 should be a clear rebuttal of that; and Paul's letters to the Corinthians who clearly were manifesting "carnal" behavior as well as other warnings about losing reward and getting into heaven as though through the fire ( 1 Cor. 3:15) show that there is a more complex theology involving not just the saved and lost but those who are at various levels in their walk. It appears; however that those who are exposed to any truth are held accountable and judged in a harsher manner ( Matt. 11:21 for example).
There are many sections of scripture such as large portions of Hebrews which are very challenging; my Dake's Bible has many hundreds of verses that make it seem we can lose our salvation; some of which are more easily refuted than others.
(Part 3):
Paul writes on the same subject, in Galatians 5:17, "For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are opposing to one another; in order that you should not do what you want." These scriptures show that believers cannot be taken away from Christ by the flesh, because the Spirit of God is dwelling within to prevent that from happening.
Jesus Himself said, as recorded in John 6:37, "All that the Father gives to me will come to me; and the one coming to me I will never cast out." He goes on to say, in John 6:39, "And this is the will of the Father who has sent me, in order that of all which he has given to me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up in the last day."
Also, in His prayer to the Father, as recorded in John 17:11-12, Jesus said, "And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep through your own name those whom you have given to me, in order that they may be one, as we are. When I was with them in the world, I was keeping them in your name; the ones who you have given to me I kept, and none of them perished, except the son of perdition; in order that the Scripture might be fulfilled."
I emphasize the permanency of salvation because the bible teaches that God is the one who saves, and He does so from out of His mercy. According to Paul, in Ephesians 2:8, grace, faith, and salvation are gifted from God. John says, in John 1:13, believers "were born, not from blood, nor from the will of the flesh, nor from the will of man, but from God." Therefore, according to Scripture, a human being cannot save him/herself.
Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ .....
We were all crucified with Christ.
Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together (with Christ) .....
We were all raised up with Christ.
Isaiah 28:19 ....together with my dead body shall they arise ...
God bless YOU!
My understanding of speaking in tongue is this.
This is a gift of God the Holy Spirit and He gives it to Whoever He chooses and some Of us have different Gifts and By Us I mean Christians who have Repented of their sins at the cross and believe in Lord Jesus christ the son of God who died at the cross and His blood washed away our sins. and This is a gift of God and none of our working.
-Most christians tend to stick to speaking in tongue but instead of praying and asking God to show us what gifts or Gift He has for us for the edification of His Ministry.
-The only way to find out is by Prayer, came in faith Before Jesus the son of God and ask Him to show (us) you what Gifts He has prepared for you.
Its written in Ephesians 2:10
10,For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
I pray that this helps you Amen
At the outset, I should state that I've never placed myself as a 'dispensationalist'. I do see broad outlines in the whole Word of God of dispensational Truth, but I think that comes naturally from study but not to be emphatic that this is essential for proper Bible teaching - helpful, but not required. But if you believe that from my views expressed here, that I show some ghastly symptoms of being under dispensational dominion, then please, I would like to know it & be corrected. Of Israel & the Church, I see them as separate until the believing Jew is joined together with the believing Gentile into One Body - then "there is no difference" - same applies to all.
Till then, what the Bible declares of Israel in the OT is purely about & for Israel. The Gentiles were never brought under any of God's Commands, Laws, & Sacrifices. The Gentiles were godless idol worshipers, to be destroyed where destruction was necessary, or enslaved as given in the Word. But God had a plan for the Gentiles then (as with Abraham) & leading up to the coming of Jesus. The Cross then "hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby" ( Ephesians 2:14-16).
I agree that the OT & NT are equally important to both Jew & Gentile - but to the point you make: I would add, 'how do we interpret the Bible when using OT Scripture with the NT?' And to Revelation 22:19: the addition & subtraction from THIS Book brings on tragic results. The Church's Rapture, as understood by 'pre-tribs', is nowhere to be found after the last message to the Churches in Revelation chapter 3. Does this constitute as being 'dispensationalist'? I don't know.
As I have brought up in earlier messages; it isn't enough to say that Christ is the center of our lives; He IS our life.
Of course; we have the world; the flesh and the Devil to overcome. ( James 3:15). it is hard; if not impossible to have a clear division or demarcation as to which of these influences is affecting us; no doubt all three need to be dealt with to truly live a Spirit filled life of Holiness. Besetting sins are necessary to overcome; according to the principles of 1 Corinthians 10:13. It is what is behind the sins; the inherent weaknesses in ourselves which tends to be the source we need to examine as well. Some of us have fears; obsessions of various kinds; or personality issues that repeatedly get us into trouble. If we are saved then we need to be mindful that Satan's minions are using the world to draw us in; and sins usually begin in the mind. ( Romans 1:21).
There is a need for deliverance for those who are oppressed; and that often doesn't happen until someone is ready to be open about sins and the legal access the enemy has to them. If there isn't any transparency there then of course we risk the warning that seven more demons can come into us ( Luke 11:26). I would add that we need to know who we should and should NOT ask to pray in that regard. Those who have besetting sins or lifestyles of sin are people to avoid; lest whatever is attached to them takes a hold on us. I am firmly convinced that ANY Spirit filled believer is capable of a deliverance ministry; and often people are set free when a congregation in general has a healthy fear of the Lord.
Let us remember as Ephesians 2:6 states we are seated in heavenly places. This world is not our home.
Agape; RP
Yes Jimbob, I would be happy to & will try to be succinct. Though I should mention that the meaning of the Great Tribulation, or Day of the Lord, needs to be clarified first. I understand, as you do, that the time of the outpouring of God's Wrath upon the World can be understood as the Great Tribulation, but I see the final week (7 years) of Daniel's seventy weeks, 490 years: Daniel 9:24-27, as the final seven years - years that will change the World's existence & future forever. And by the way, you believe in a post-trib rapture & I understand that as being before God's Wrath poured out. I view this position to be one of mid-trib for the reason I've shared above, but that's not the point here.
Now my Scriptures for a pre-trib (or, pre-Day of the Lord) rapture:
a. the Church is a mystery ( Ephesians 1:1-13), by which believing Jew & Gentile are united into one Body ( Ephesians 2:11-22). Therefore, the Church's translation is not mentioned in the OT that deals with Christ's Second Coming after the Tribulation, & why the Church is promised deliverance before the time of God's Wrath ( 1 Thessalonians 1:9,10; 1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10).
b. the 70th week in Daniel, is the preparation of Israel's restoration & regeneration ( Deuteronomy 4:29-30; Jeremiah 30:4-11; Ezekiel 20:22-44; Ezekiel 22:13-22).
c. the Tribulation (including anti-Christ's reign) is not for the Church, but for those who are in the world ( Revelation 3:10; 8:13; 11:10; 13:8,12,14; 17:2,8). The Church is never seen here & will not participate in Israel's time of trouble.