Discuss Ecclesiastes 9 Page 2

Giannis,

Part 2

Scripture describes death as sleep and the grave/hell is our home until Jesus returns and releases us from the pains of death, Acts 2:24, and the hope we have, Rom. 8:11. We see in Psalm 6:5 Job 14:12-14 Job 17:13-16. When a person dies, he "lies down" in death and does not arise out of that sleep until his regeneration at the resurrection. Psalm 89:48 Psalm 115:17 Ecclesiastes 9:5-10.

Jesus said this referring to eternal life, Matthew 16:26. Sory for being wordy but I hope this sort of explains my understanding. If our soul is immortal, Luke 16 is a real story, I believe scripture is clear, our soul is us and is mortal, there would be nothing to resurrect. Where would be victory over the grave and death? 1 Cor. 15:54-55 1 Cor. 15:14.

Jesus's soul along with his body was as He said of Jonah/Jonas, Matt. 12"40. In Acts 2:22-35 Jesus was not left in Hell and did not see corruption, in vs. 24 God loosed the pains of death because Jesus was sinless, and death had to let go.

1 Peter 3:18-20 is hard, we have spirits in prison who were disobedient in the days of Noah, and the waters of the flood compared to the baptizing waters saving not washing away the filth of the flesh but for the conscience toward God. Our conscience, our hard drive our testimony, 2 Cor.1:12 tells us with the help of the Holy Spirit if we are good to go and it is pure.

There is no clear indication of when Jesus did this so to say it was when He was in the tomb would be just an opinion.

Spirits in prison from Noah's time building the ark? Why that time and not all the time up to His resurrection? I may be wrong, but I do not know of the dead being called spirits and being in prison, but the angels who left their first estate are locked in chains of darkness. Revelation gives another look at what that prison may be. This one will be full of opinions that would need setting at a table discussion, so I will leave this one to your understanding.

See part 3

Vain repetitions: There are those who would be Pharasitical that repeat a phrase; or mantra somehow trying to impress men or God with their petitions. Clearly; there is precident as with the persistent widow ( Luke 18:1) to pray without ceasing ( 1 Thess. 5:16-18).

It should be acknowledged on our part that some prayers are answered after only one request; in fact divine occurances can occur without anyone present (as far as we know) have offered up any prayer. It is He; Christ Himself who "ever intercedes" for us ( Heb. 7:25 and other passages). We; therefore should seek to worship in the Spirit; in accordance with His will. This is accomplished through knowledge of the living Word; and often is shown scripturally to be in agreement with the covenants and promises already established by God.

There are generally thought to be 3 ways God responds to a prayer request; namely no; not yet; or yes. The bigger problem is not why a specific prayer seems to be unmet or not responded to; but HOW God is speaking to us regarding a matter. We often focus on the result or effect of an inner problem as shown in external actions; or behaviors. We tend not to see how the Lord is using a difficulty for either our edification or that of the individual lifted up in prayer. This; of course may be wisdom that takes time to appear. If someone is a mature believer; then they are more likely to request something based on better understanding of the ways of God working in their lives. All things work out for the good for those who love God ( Romans 8:28). Our prayers for unsaved people should always be centered on their need for repentance; not ignoring their other needs.

There is actually no Bible verse where we are asked to pray for an individual to be saved; thus a strong indication of God's sovereignty in the doctrine of election.

Hopefully; in all this when there are things we can do for someone in need; we can take action to be an answer to prayer( James 2:16).

Right back at you ELB .

Psalms 100:4

Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name.

the Book of Psalms was written by many writers. A Psalm is a Song. Many people have recorded songs with Bible verses.

It is the presence of the Holy Spirit that helps us praise. You show yourself to be very blessed.

I even sing Psalms, through tears, when reading of the difficulties King David experienced-so much like my own problems.

I much prefer music on YouTube that is all scripture so I can hear the Melody. I like John Michael Talbot and his brother, Terry's music sometimes. See what you think.

'Troubadour' means singer. John has an album called Troubadour.

In the battle against The Walls of Jericho; the Singers were in the front, the musicians next.

when Jesus was in the garden he was praying the same prayer, so why can't we...we say in our church (pray until something happens, he may not come when you want him but he always on time

Amen, Brother Alex!

God Bless You!

Amen, suze!

gbu

Always thank God for every good thing in your life , in doing this you are acknowledging Him as the source of all good things and thanking Him for His generosity and mercy and loving kindness to you , even asking something from Him is praising Him because in doing so you are acknowledging His power to intervene and do anything He wants to with His creation . Helping others is also praising Him , if you do some thing nice for some one and they thank you , you could say to them ; don't thank me thank God , they may think that you are crazy but that's their problem . I'm often nice to people I don't like very much because I know that God wants me to be kind to everyone , this is also praising Him , when you do His will even if you don't really want to ! Submission to God's will is definately praising Him . In submission you are showing your faith in Him and His righteousness . I sometimes thank God for the same things every day , if it's truly from the heart it doesn't matter if it's a bit repetitive .

Hiya Robert GBU....Lemme give ya my take on Praising God....Our old adamic nature is too tainted with sin to praise God Perfectly...We need to birth a new innerman, a new heart and a new spirit which is the H.G. the Child of Promise....Remember Jesus said outta of the mouths of babes and sucklings thou has PERFECTED PRAISE....Which is the H.G. our new innerman, That Child of Promise....That results from his seed the word that is planted in our hearts etc...Being bornagain of an incorruptible seed etc...Even by the word of God that liveth and abideth for ever..the living WORD that good seed

....Thats y the new birth is so important...We get a new heart and a new spirit...That Child of Promise that can Praise God Perfectly...And a Kingdom...Unless you receive the Kingdom of God as a lil Child you will in no wise enter there in...Its that lil Child which is the H.G that can Praise God Perfectly...As we have borne the image of the earthly ( Our adamic nature ) we must also bear ( birth ) the image of the heavenly....the H.G. that Child of Promise.

....Thats y Elijah has to come and turn the hearts of the Fathers to the CHILDREN ...Which are the babes and sucklings that can Praise God PERFECTLY...OK

Dear Robert.

If You read accounts of Isaiah's or John's vision of heaven, You will notice that the angels repeatedly cry "Holy, holy, holy is the

Lord God Almighty."

I don't think that Scripture is talking about repeating words of praise to God, rather speaking to Him with empty words coming

from our mouths but not from our heart and mind.

You could take a little time to write down a variety of praise phrases and continue to add to these along the way. Then you can

read through some of these before you give them up to God. When you do come to God, use what the Holy Spirit brings to

mind.

One thing that helped me many years ago was to write words describing God under each letter A-Z and find Scripture references

for these. This helped me expand my praise vocabulary AND deepen my understanding of God's character.

Singing songs of praise is one way of praising God. Also seek out things in your life and give thanks to God for them. The more you do these things the more comfortable you will become and your heart will open up to Him. Also confess to the Lord you need help in praising Him and He will help you.

I have been been praising GOD every day. I was told that you do not keep saying the same thing, even praying. How do i prayse GOD every day with out repeating myself? Do you prayse GOD every day. I need help for this.

Robert Johnstone

Hello my brother Philip!

I too have been studying the bible for over 40 years. I hope this helps. First someone in heaven now. Yes!

First Enoch. Gen. 5: 21-24. God took Enoch.

Second. Elijah. 2King 2:1-15. Elijah went to heaven on chariot of fire.

Third. Moses Jude verse 9. Michele and the devil fought for the body of Moses. Devil lost. Now go to Matthew 17: 1-13

Elijah and Moses appears to Jesus.

But you are right. Other then that everyone is still in the graves waiting for the second coming of Christ.

First go to John 11:11-16

Jesus tells apostles Lazarus is sleeping. The apostles had to be told sleep means dead.

Now go to Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 the dead now nothing. Meaning they are not in heaven. If in heaven they would know something. We believe that people sleep. When Christ comes the righteous will rise to go to heaven. Later the wick will rise together then punch.

Hope these helps. If you want more I will be happy to send more information.

God bless my friend.

Hey Jeff,

It will be hard to find, the closest you will get is a parable in Luke 16. If you read the chapter and the context it is against the love of money and wealth. When Jesus first came the Greek influence was widespread many were Hellenized.

When our spirit leaves our body and goes to intermediate heaven does not come from scripture, it comes from Plato. His definition of death is the separation of the soul from the body. Hades the Underworld where the dead went, a subterranean region, the world of the dead where all souls passed after their time on earth, Elysium was paradise.

If you look for scripture you will find sleep in the earth until the resurrection, Job 7:21 Job 14:12-14 Job 17:13-16 Psalm 89:48 Psalm 115:17 Daniel 12:2 Ecclesiastes 9:10

God bless,

RLW

Paul talked about being taken to the 3rd heaven in his vision or actually being taken he said he did not know but he saw heaven and describes as the 3rd heaven. Jesus told the thief today you shall be with me in paradise. Some say the air from the earth to the atmosphere is the 1st heaven from the atmosphere to heaven is the 2nd and beyond that is the 3rd heaven. The Catholic's believe in purgatory, and some equate paradise with that as being the same. We know upon Christ return the dead in Christ will be raised from the dead but so will the lost souls as well. Do we go to heaven when we die we know our bodies don't but what about our sours and our spirit? The belief is our spirit that God breathed into Adam that we all have that gives us life returns to God, but our soul which is us sleeps and the Bible often refers to death as sleep in both the old and new testaments. Genesis 1:8And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. look at verses 6&7 6And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. the firmament he called heaven? So if you go beyond Heaven you'll find water? notice Heaven is capitalized a place.

Psalms 49:15

"But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. Selah." implies our soul is in the grave. Ecclesiastes 9:10

"Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest."

Psalms 30:3

"O LORD, thou hast brought up my soul from the grave: thou hast kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit."

Ecclesiastes 3:21

"Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?"

That's all I got,

King James Version (KJV)

Please see these references: Mark 9:1-7, Matthew 17:2, Matthew 28:3, Luke 9:29, Revelation 19:11-16, Revelation 1:14, Mark 16:5, John 20:12, Acts 1:10, Ecclesiastes 9:8, Revelation 3:4,5, Revelation 7:9-17, Revelation 20:11, Isaiah 1:18, Revelation 6:2,11, Revelation 9:18, Daniel 11:35, Revelation 4:4, Daniel 7:9, Revelation 2:17, Daniel 12:10,

John 4:35,

But Also : Genesis 40:16-23, Joel 1:7, Leviticus 13, Revelation 15:6,

Hopefully these are helpful.

Hey Rick,

Death is something we all will face; many believe our body dies and our soul lives on. Is our soul immortal? Can we take 2 Corinthians 5:8 when we die our soul leaves our body and we are present with the Lord? Some define death as a separation of the soul from the body. Does that come from scripture? I have not found that in scripture.

It comes from Greek philosophy of Plato. He wrote the body is a prison for the soul and viewed death as the means of freedom for the soul. The philosophy of death started blending in the church in the second century and those good souls go to heaven and the bad goes to hell and more. Many see the parable in Luke 16:19-31 as fitting this. If you read the chapter Jesus is talking about the unrighteous love mammon and neglect the true riches.

My understanding from scripture every part of us is mortal and when we die, we sleep in the dust, Job 14:12-14, Job 17:13-16, Ecclesiastes 9:5-10 until resurrection. When this mortal puts on immortality 1 Corinthians 15:52-58, and we will be absent from this flesh body. Then those that are Christs will be judged and receive our rewards. Matthew 16:27, Revelation 22:12 that is our hope, 1 Thessalonians 2:19

We will sleep in the dust, Daniel 12:2, 1Theselonians 4:14 and this is not from heaven, it is from around the world to meet Jesus in the air coming down to Israel the start the 1000 years at His coming. Matthew 24:31 Zechariah 14:4.

This is my understanding of scripture.

God bless,

RLW

Here are several scriptures I found about death & after death : James 2:26, Ecclesiasticus 38:23, Ecclesiasticus 22:11, 2 Maccabees 7:36, 2 Maccabees 12:44, Ecclesiasticus 10:11, Ecclesiasticus 17:28, Baruch, 2:17, Psalms 88:10, Psalms 115:11, Ecclesiastes 9:5,

after death,: Matthew 17:1-3, Luke 7:12-16, Luke 8:49-56, John 11:21-45, Matthew 27:50-54, Luke 16:22-31, John 21:14, Acts 3:15, Acts 4:10, Mark 12:25,26,27, Luke 24:46, John 5:12, John 5:25, 1 Peter 1:3, 1 Peter 2:24, 1 Peter 4:5, Revelation 1:5, Revelation 1:18, Revelation 14:9-20, 1 Corinthians 15:20,21, 2 Timothy 4:1, 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 1 Thessalonians 1:10, Matthew 25:31-46, Romans 14:9, Matthew 22:32, Isaiah 26:19,

Hebrews 11:35, Revelation 20, 2 Esdras 2:16, Hebrews 6:2, Hebrews 9:14, Hebrews 11:4, Hebrews 13:20, Revelation 11:18,

Hopefully these are helpful.

Krystin,

I am sure you will get different replies on this, my understanding is close to what is in your post. Soul and spirit are two different words but seem to think of being the same and are hard to separate in our mind. What happens to these when we die there are different understandings, does the soul sleep in the earth with the body, or is it immortal and go to two different places?

The word soul in Hebrew is nephesh meaning a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion. The Greek word psuche meaning the soul, life, self, a person's distinct identity.

The word spirit, the Bible writers used the Hebrew word ruach meaning breath, wind, spirit, or the Greek word pneuma also meaning wind, breath, spirit, when writing about the spirit.

Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

The spirit goes back to God Ecclesiastes 12:7

The Holy Spirit seals us until when? Ephesians 4:30

We are buried mortal, dead, in corruption and we are raised immortal incorruptible 1 Corinthians 15:42-44

All consciousness ends when we die. Psalm 6:5 Job 14:12-14 Job 17:13-16 Psalm 89:48 Psalm 115:17 Ecclesiastes 9:5-10

We sleep in the dust until resurrection day, the day of redemption. 1 Corinthians 15:51 1 Thessalonians 4:14 1 Corinthians 15:52-54

God raised Jesus from the dead after three days and three nights, so, Romans 8:1 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Have not found any scripture that says we or our soul or spirit is immortal, may someone else provide it if it is in the bible.

God bless,

RLW

Dear Reynaldo,

I understand that it is culture. Thanks for clarifying since it seems to matter much to you.

Sigmund Freud called it talk therapy which is still used today in mental health care. we are doing more for mental health disease. In this discipline we use it to get things out in the open for our Savior to be beckon.

Lord, it is tight to give you thanks and praise, please hear my plea. Raul was my favorite Uncle and in life he served you Lord, with a contrite heart. As I talk about our past with Raul for closer it is without expecting an answer form my Uncle Raul. Let others learn from my plea. Through Jesus Christ we pray. Amen.

biting the forbidden fruit was also a thought.

it was wrong and it is still talked about it today.

misunderstanding a definition or any false assumptions caters to the evil one.

letting go of something for self-perseverance reminds me of the quote " you are in America, you can want all you want, but it doesn't make it right. btw. It is not heritage, it is culture.

That's a good verse. I was forgiven of a lot of low-living. I was peeled just like an onion; piece by piece until I was bare and Had NOTHING to save me. A very bad time. Death looked good to me. But Jesus dropped into my wreckage and pulled me up to the land of the living.

After I'd been saved some months I leaped into evangelism. You know wee kids with their Daddies taking them out trick r treating? I felt like the Lord was with me no matter all the mess. I fell in with a storefront church; most of them were street preachers. I heard the Call. Thirty years later, it's still my passion.

All that discussion of sharing hopes of seeing my saved relatives someday in heaven_is externalizing. I know they're dead, gee whiz. My Favorite times are sharing my soul-winning prayers with the LORD OF THE HARVEST. If I see disasters on tv, I pray about everything! It's an on-going conversation with the Holy Spirit. He lives in me, and I live in Him. He desires to have relationship with US. Im sorta solitary, but have kids and I love them enough to keep a wall of prayer around them; and extended family too. I care deeply about war vets who are closed off inside their pain. I stand in the gap for them. Satan hates my guts and I give him lotsa trouble. He fights dirty and I fight as Jesus taught me: on my knees in prayer and exceeding Praise of the Lord!

Television is not real life. It's like opium. You don't feel life anymore.

I watch news of Signs of the Time. Jesus said to watch and Look Up, which is what most of us are doing. We're missing signs. All hell is busting out. Do you see it?

We are given Dominion, Power and Authority to open eyes and ears in the Name of Jesus. Remind Satan he's NOT human and has no authority to destroy a life. He's the ultimate ILLEGAL ex-archangel. He stirred up storms on Job. He's still doing it. SO PRAY LIKE A CHILD OF GOD. Use your authority in Jesus's Name. Send them into wilderness. Then praise JESUS for the victory.

Mishael The simple answer is most people don't believe the dead are dead as it says in Ecclesiastes 9:5+6.

Mishael,

I never said that we should not recall and remember loved ones. I have no problem with visiting a grave or special place of one we have lost. The original topic was praying for the dead and attempting to make contact with them as Reynaldo spoke about in the Day of the Dead practices e mentioned.

I know everyone has ways to remember loved ones who have died. As family, we talk a lot about my dad and his quirkiness and laugh. So, I really doo not think I am hammering anyone. My post must have struck a nerve and I am sorry that it did, but my intentions was to address the topic of praying for or to those who have died, especially if one is trying to make contact with a dead loved one. I have read your many posts about warding off demonic influences, and I think these practices open up such doorways for demons to interact with people. So, that is why I am speaking against these practices.

God Bless You this Day, Mishael

Mishael Why are we throwing out scripture if its all Gods Word 2 Timothy 3:16?

If it is necromancy to "talk" to the dead, why then do we have funerals and build graveyards with roads so we can put flowers on the grave? Sit on a bench and REMEMBER that persons life?

Is it just an industry someone invented? Why do we use graveyards? Isn't it a waste of prime real estate?

Why did Michael the Archangel (the Angel of War) fight with satan over Moses's body?

Why do we have a huge complex in Wash DC in honor of unknown dead soldiers?

I don't know. I miss my parents and sometimes I talk to the air and remember good things they did for me.

It's really uptight and sorta mean, to hammer people for missing loved ones. We should just throw out these scriptures below,

1 Thessalonians 4:18; 5:11

Wherefore comfort one another

Gigi I understand are you still interested.

Raynaldo,

Thank you for sharing more about the Day of the Dead. I understand that it is part of your heritage.

I still think that it is necromancy when one tries to contact someone wo is deceased to converse with them or have them present in a situation, regardless if there is fortune telling or "magic" involved. So, I do not do it, myself.

As to speaking to Jesus, we are encouraged to pray to God and the Holy spirit interacts with us. That is different. One is dealing with God, who is unique and in a class of Being all by himself. It differs from "communicating" to or with people who have died. But I can let this conversation go for today. Thanks for you input.

Raynaldo,

I am not sure if you understood me correctly in what I said about my dad. e was a believer and God took him before we were ready, but we accept that God makes the best decisions. He was merciful to my dad in taking him before e had to suffer the effects of emphysema whatever else old age would have brought him. My mom, siblings, and I all recognize this. As to being a caregiver for someone close to us. Most of us who know the Lord do so with love and concern for that person. But it is hard to do for some because they themselves may be advanced in years and the work is taxing on them. The neighbor my Mom spoke to is in her 80's, too, and her and her husband still live together in a condo. she has some outside help come in daily. That is all I was saying. I think you over-spiritualized it a bit.