I am trying with this subject not to go to the extreme of saying that anything we do can save ourselves. What I will say is that what we do can bring us into condemnation at least until He truly lives within us; and we are truly saved. I will also state that EVERY step to salvation is inspired by the Holy Spirit. Even hearing the message which has the potential to bring someone to salvation is confined to this life; we don't get any second chances after we die.
We all start out in this life hearing the Gospel message and responding one way or another. We have to ask how the Spirit works in each part of the process. I will state that scripture seems to make it clear that even if we don't understand the mysteries of the church and how the Spirit indwells someone who is a believer prior to salvation no one in hell from all scripture we see on the subject is there without sins convicting their consciences in this life. Hearing the Word causes a reaction for anyone hearing it; whether believing or rejecting it. One can come to Christ after hearing the Word multiple times (as I did) but the person once they hear it and understand in their minds cannot say they are unaware of the basic truths of the Gospel; that is if presented correctly. I believe that true repentance only comes from the Lord but as 2 Corinthians 7:10 states that repentance leads TO salvation (see also 2 Timothy 2:25 on God GRANTING repentance). Logically; a person must HEAR the word; then have true repentance and then act on it. I would argue at that stage repentance first involves a DESIRE then definite ACTION to turn away from sin; and more importantly our former LIFESTYLE of sin. Also; a true believer continues in the faith until the end; but for some that involves God having to severely discipline a person; and as Corinthians states; some have "fallen asleep" taking communion unworthily; others are given over to Satan but still saved.
Whether in the "Arminian" or "Calvinistic" camps; God's sovereignty and man's inability to save himself apart from His grace is fairly universally accepted. The issue comes in as to whether mans' "free will" acts to make a decision whether to follow or not follow Christ and "accept" Him into their hearts. Both camps will hold to Romans 10:9 related to a verbal and heartfelt confession accompanying saving faith. I would contend that it is not as some like to call it "decisional regeneration" that occurs as a result of something we say; but that what we say is a reflection of God already moving one towards repentance as scripture states it is a gift of God ( 2 Tim. 2:25 and also stated in the Book of Acts). We are truly saved "apart from the law" ( Romans 3:21) by grace; but of course Paul makes it clear that we aren't granted a "license to sin" once we have escaped from the wrath of God. Nothing we can do will earn us grace; and more importantly there is no desire in unregenerate man to follow God; at best man can try to avoid the consequences of sin which of course makes us all as Judas Iscariot who betrayed Christ yet realized he had betrayed an innocent man and thus hung himself. (see 2 Corinthians 7:10). It should be obvious how essential the doctrine of grace is; as all other eligions and even Christian cults will offer a combination of faith in Christ and works as needed to be saved; or it is asceticism such as Eastern religions offer that seem to bring a utopia for someone after doing good works after a lengthy cycle of death and rebirth (reincarnation) which of course fundamentally is opposed by Hebrews 9:27. Often it is another Christ; whether presented as as sage or great prophet which is expounded that we should follow rather than the true Jesus who was the Son of God. John 8:24 makes it clear that we must believe that "I am" truly meaning that He is the Christ. ( Matt. 16:13-20). ONLY CHRIST CAN REVEAL THE TRUTH TO A MAN.
This life, which had been the tomb of his virtue and of his honour, is but a walking shadow; a poor player, that struts and frets his hour upon the stage, and then is heard no more: it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
(MacBeth; William Shakesphere 5th Act).
This quote is in the play regards the death of MacBeth's wife. There are shades of Ecclesiastes here of vanity and life passing as a vapor; but also the idea of the second part of this verse in 2 Corinthians 7:10...
"For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death." This verse shows the futility of those who; like Judas Iscariot regret the consequences of their sin; whether on themselves ultimately or how it affects others (in his case leading to suicide). We can see the same sort of mindset with Pilate who in John 19:11 was told that others had greater sin but nonetheless his attempts to release him were not out of reverence for His holiness but attempts to quell extremes of rebellion from both the Jews and the Romans in making a wrong decision. Ultimately; both these cases show cowardice which is one reason people will go to hell according to Revelation 21:8.
We shouldn't assume that emotion shouldn't accompany true repentence leading to salvation but that it is the Spirit which takes over and the emotions are part of a cleansing process. When given a new heart we are transformed from the inside out and can't help but cry out to God; as Isaiah did "woe is me" ( Isaiah 6:5). This shows the humble and contrite spirit David describes in Psalm 51 and elsewhere. Penitence from any other method assuming some goodness we have in ourselves apart from Christ is meaningless. This is what makes those from a Christian family background have to test themselves to see if they are in the faith ( 2 Cor. 13:5). We can't change our hearts from mere assent of doctrinal statements or scripture. More to come.
4,5) - "In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
To deliver such an one unto Satan FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF THE FLESH, THAT THE SPIRIT MAY BE SAVED IN THE DAY OF THE LORD JESUS.
I don't believe Paul is talking about condemnation as to one's salvation.
He's not talking about forgiveness of sins. He's talking about excommunicating this person.
The Corinthians was a proud church and continuing on as if there was nothing wrong. Delivering him to Satan for the destruction of the flesh would be his just punishment.
This is chastening not condemning.
( that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.)
This would cause him to repent, I will come to that later.
As we read on in the following verses we see where Paul urges them to not keep company with evil doers of the world.
He is now writing them to not keep company with any man that is called a brother that's an evil doer.
A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. ( 1 Corinthians 5:6-13.
Back to the evil doer in question. I believe here in 2 Corinthians 2:2-11 we have the account where this guy repented from those evil deeds.
Paul was coming down on the whole congregation for this cause.
I believe this account is in
2 Corinthians 7:8-12.
Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. ( That's Christ. )
We are commissioned to preach Christ. If a person reject Christ, that person shall be bound on earth as he or she is bound in heaven: and if that person receives Christ he or she shall loosed on earth as they are loosed in heaven.
I agree, perhaps others may like to share their thoughts.
The bulk of this discussion is focused on men who profess to believe as a Christian and who are seeking faith as a means to an end. This; in my opinion is far more insidious; and leads to greater judgment than the average pagan who overtly worship false gods. We have discussed Lot's wife; and of course in New Testament times we have warnings such as Hebrews 10:29 to seriously consider as well as the previous verse. We have more than the law now; we have the Bible; the written testimony of God with His redemptive plan for us.
Part of the problem; as I have pointed out a number of times is the concept of "decisional regeneration". We can follow the admonition of Romans 10:9 and attest to the veracity of John 3:16 and a few other basic verses on salvation for a number of reasons; but apart from a transformation through the Holy Spirit and God drawing a person toward repentance we are NOT saved. This concept is found in 5 scriptures as either granting or leading someone to repenetance (see 2 Tim. 2:25; Romans 2:4). Two types of sorrow are mentioned in 2 Corinthians 7:10; godly and worldly sorrow. The end result is either spiritual death or life. (compare Peter to Judas Iscariot after Gethsemene; and until His crucifixion for examples of these two types of sorrow). I would go farther though; some of us haven't even considered the consequences of our sins and how it would affect us at the end of this life; and Judgment Day. Fear of hell may not save someone without an appreciation for the Holiness of God and how we have offended our Creator; which comes in a large part after we are saved (experientially slow for some; immediate for others). But true repentance gives us some realization of our state apart from Christ along with a new heart ( Ezekiel 11:19-20).
I will say that in today's world; it is going to get very costly to even confess Christ; assuming; of course it is real church that we are declaring allegiance to
Recently a book on the subject (apparently there were several) was studied in small group; in this case one by Randy Alcorn. There were some questions on one of his video shorts and not total agreement; nonetheless other segments and much written in the book seem scripturally solid.
What we see in scripture shows how saints of God will; at least after the Tribulation and what I believe eschatologically to be the Millennium (and certainly for eternity afterwards) be ruling and reigning on earth. The difference will be in the New Jerusalem being above earth rather than on earth as happens in Revelation 21. I will note that it is the New Jerusalem; not the entire planet or place where heaven is that comes to earth. It would seem that would remain somewhere else. Ezekiel 1:22 seem to suggest an expanse of ice; M.J. Agee seems to think the location is identifiable. For the sake of avoiding unnecessary controversy I will keep the basic premise that it is somewhere beyond our physical universe.
The key; again is scripture; Jesus stated that "you know where I am going." ( John 14:4-6). The issue where was that they had seen God in Christ who was a member of the Trinity and always did the Father's will. How to get there of course is through the narrow gate which all but the son of Perdition could enter of the 12 Disciples ( Matthew 7:13-14). This is perhaps the biggest point that needs to be hammered home. Other than believing in a literal heaven as being a priority we also need to realize that only by His righteousness can we pass from death to life and most will take the wide road to destruction. That necessitates elimination of any universalist sentiments. I have stated before the concept of 2 Corinthians 7:10 where godly sorrow brings repentance rather than the type Judas Iscariot had as to sadness on the consequences of his actions. Peter showed true repentance because he knew He had betrayed the Son of God who he truly loved.
Thanks again Jimbob for your thoughts on this. Tribulation or Great Tribulation? I see a difference. The apostles, the early Church & believers today are not exempt from tribulation; it will come to us as declared ( Matthew 13:21; John 16:33; Acts 14:22; Romans 8:35; 2 Corinthians 7:4; etc): not just physical hardships, but certainly the exercises by the enemy against us, even to testings of faith & martyrdom. We are not insulated from any of these, nor should we expect to be, but what of the Tribulation sent by God our Father? You shared 1 Thessalonians 3:4, "For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know." You understand that Paul was referring to the Great Tribulation, of God's Wrath. I don't see that at all in his discourse, rather, that Paul was describing his own afflictions (vv 3,7 & coupled with 1 Thessalonians 2:2,9,14). I see a clear difference between the two expressions of Tribulation: that which comes to all of us, & that which is only directed to haters of God & His Christ.
What then are we not appointed to? To our daily tribulations, even to suffering or dying for Christ, or to God's Wrath to unbelievers? I note that you agree to this: that believers won't face the outpouring of God's Wrath against a Christ-rejecting World, by your understanding that this outpouring will happen only after the believers are caught away (i.e. post-tribulation). The contention then is: is God's Wrath the same as the Great Tribulation? I believe the Great Tribulation is still to come - we haven't in the least begun to experience anything of it now. When it starts, we know that the time of the end is at hand and believers will be caught away before the world begins to feel the Mighty Hand of God against them. (cont'd).
Hello Dorothy. From what you've written, I would say, No. Demon possession will always show clear manifestations & would generally happen if one relinquinshes one's mind & body to such evil powers. I don't have much knowledge or experience with this, apart from a couple of instances of what seemed to be a demonic possession, and in both cases, there were outward manifestations.
Observances of a type of schizophrenia behavior, mutterings, body-shaking, violent actions, vile or blasphemous language, would be indications of such possession. And those who do not belong to Christ, or allow themselves to drift away from Him (backslide), & turn to activities that are clearly demonic, open themselves up to this evil & its oppressions.
But if one has grown lukewarm in their faith & not given priority to matters of Bible reading, prayer, & Christian fellowship, he/she will need to take stock of their present condition. If they realize that this is the case, I would see here the first steps to sorrow & repentance for their departure & maybe denial of Christ. 2 Corinthians 7:10 reads, "For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death." When there is a true (godly) sorrow in the heart for the life lived apart from Jesus, that leads to true repentance leading to salvation. But the 'remorse' that the ungodly world might feel yet without repentance, will never give them forgiveness & eternal life. Judas Iscariot was one such when he betrayed his Lord, when Satan filled his heart to do what he did. But if one has back-slid & there being no evidence of evil manifestations, except for a life unworthy of the Lord's Love, I don't believe that demon possession would be evident. By turning heart, mind & body over to the Lord, all evil forces will scatter - this soul has been redeemed, saved & secured by the all-powerful Blood of the Lamb of God. Nothing nor anyone can withstand that.
Are we all forgiven yet blinded from our sinful nature of birth (Adams sin and Satan's temptive joy). Belief that Christ Jesus came to earth to forgive them all, All sin All sinners, might I add all that can, we the people created by the hands of God and the dust. God achieved this from the beginning and through his perfect ensample (example), offering life forgiveness from death of earthly life and his death resurrection. Earthly pain earthly sarrows earthly wrongs. God is good and we should love to be good as well. Amen? Yes, Amen
Please Lord God allow opportunities to be access able for Saw Myint Aung find support through this path of living that Saw Myint Aung is experiencing. I pray in Jesus Christ name that Saw Myint Aung comes to accept You Lord Jesus as Savior and the Holy Spirit will flow through with comfort and guidance!!
I don't know if you have a Bible or access to one, I would recommend this scriptures to reflect on: Psalms 23, 1 Peter 5:5-10, 2 Corinthians 7:10, 2 Corinthians 12:7-10, Romans 10: 9-13, and Romans 7: 9-25.
I would also suggest finding a bible based church and support group based in faith in Jesus Christ that studying the bible and do activities that helps others. Idleness is a foothold to the devil.
We always are subject unto those things that question God. It is our nature!
We overcome these things in and through the holy spirit.
Christ died for these sins that go before us and follow after!
We should always be confident that what Jesus has done is sufficient to forgive us of these sins. There are no specific sins that keep us from the frustration of the Holy Spirit. Sin is who we are. Jesus calls us evil! Imagine that!
There is nothing we can do to change this condition, but believe that Jesus death and ressurection cleanses us from all sin. That we are reconciled unto God through the shed blood of Christ! Praise Him, sing unto Him! He loves you!
When you Back up to 2 Corinthians 6:15 where God asks you what part is there to the believer with an unbeliever ?
It should explain His promise to you, and how He will be your God and ye His people, and how to receive this promise, and it's not by the building with the temple of idols.
He goes on to say come out come out of the midst of them(unbelievers), and be ye separate.
And will be for a Father to you, and ye shall be to Him for sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all pollution of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
We should all know this promise, and remind Him of it,,, He wants us to.
I think that's the most startling thing that a believer can find out, and especially with the way people present salvation today, they say "Hey, do you want to go to heaven and have your sins forgiven? Just pray this prayer." And no one tells them that if indeed you are serious, and if indeed you really did get saved, that God's Spirit has come to dwell in you and you've been set apart for Him. You're not your own anymore!
People aren't told that. They are not told that you've been set apart, and that your biggest struggle is going to be thinking that you can go back to living and approaching life like you did before you were saved. No, you've been set apart for Christ. Love not the world, neither the things in the world. Be separate and come out from among them. Be not unequally yoked together.
And so we are to cleanse ourselves and do this in the perfecting of sanctification, maturing in the lifestyle of sanctification, drawing closer to Christ. And notice the basis for this. It says in the fear of God. That's a healthy reverence for God. And just in our own human, we naturally do not fear God. And if we do respect Him, we fear people more than we do God.
Sometimes we know that we are disobeying God, but we also know that He's a gracious God and He will forgive us, and people won't. So, we compromise our walk with Christ and then we ask God for forgiveness because we know He will forgive.
Paul starts off 2 Corinthians by saying "having therefore these promises." What promises? These are promises at the end of Chapter 6. We see in Leviticus 26:12, Isaiah 52:11, and 2 Samuel 7:14, that the promise that God said I will come and I will dwell in you, and I will be your Father, and you will be my children. I will be your God and you will be my people.
Having these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit.
Now these are not technical terms (flesh and spirit). He's talking about realm. Don't pollute by getting involved in the spiritual forces of darkness. There's a spiritual influence over you, and don't get involved in those physical human fleshly things that war against the things of Christ. Let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness, that is, contamination of flesh and spirit.
Secondly: perfecting holiness in the fear of God. The word holiness is the word sanctification. He says you've been sanctified. You've been set apart for Christ. And we keep trying in the human social to cross the line and be socially joined and get our social needs met.
But at the same time, Paul is saying that you cannot compromise your walk with the Lord by getting involved in situations and with people that are going to influence your relationship with Christ and affect your effectiveness in your walk with Christ.
So, he says the key here is you've been set apart. God has set you apart. His promise is that He's going to be with you and dwell with you. And He is going to be your God and you are going to be His people. Therefore, perfect, (mature) the sanctification. We are sanctified the very moment that God's Spirit comes into our spirit. In 1 Thessalonians, Paul told the Christians in Thessalonica to walk in your sanctification.
1 Peter 2:17 says we are to fear God. There are three commands in that verse that are Present Imperatives, showing continuous action. One of them is that we are to be continually fear God. Is it right to fear God? Yes! In fact, just by studying the social habits of man, did you know that we make decisions based on who we fear the most, and who we love the most? Sometimes we compromise with our walk with the Lord because we fear how other people are going to react to us if we obey the Lord. We fear them. We fear rejection. We fear their response. But we are to fear God, not man. Why? Because fear causes compromise. We are to be continually fearing God.
In 2 Corinthians 7:1, it says, "Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God."
Here's the basis for this: It says in the fear of God. That's a healthy reverence for God. And just in our own human response, we naturally do not fear God. And if we do respect Him, we fear people more than we do God. Sometimes we know that we are disobeying God, but we also know that He's a gracious God and He will forgive us.
But oftentimes we compromise our walk with Christ and then we come back and ask God for forgiveness because we know He's gracious and that He will forgive. But we don't have a healthy fear. That is to say that if we're disobedient, what if God in His love decides to allow us or cause us to suffer the consequences. We think that God's going to protect us in all that we do, but He disciplines those that are His.
So perfect holiness in the fear of God, having a healthy fear of Him. It's the beginning of wisdom. It's the beginning of knowledge. It's the very first response that we need to be sensitive to. How aware am I of God and His power, God almighty, and the fact that I'm getting ready to make decisions in His presence that might be in disobedience to Him?
God made it extremely clear, that the evening and the morning were the first day. There should be no kind of confusion except for only those who are genuinely blinded and do not believe. I state this under God's authority... 2 Corinthians 4:4 "In whom the god of this world (Satan) has blinded the minds of them which believe not, or risk the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them." Satan does not want to chance that the light of Christ should shine on you, and lead you to ALL truth.
My GOD is an awesome GOD, and HE reigns from the heavens above. If HE can create Adam and Eve as adults why should there be a problem with a 24 hour day. My GOD is capable and able to do exactly as given in the BIBLE. HE spoke and it was so.
I choose to believe in the creation account as given by GOD in HIS Scripture. Everyone has to make their own choice or choices. May the LORD be praised and magnified as we bring our prayers and supplication to HIM regarding our present situation. Rising gas/oil, food, prices, pending war, social unrest, and spiritual and political leadership that needs to get back to leading.
These are just my thoughts, may the LORD bless all on this forum, and grant us peace and comfort in HIS Name.
The Holy KJV may not have an individual verse to discuss with youth about this but God is very vocal about how masterbation does destroy one. Masterbation and pornography are just as addictive as the strongest drugs and have terrible consequences. Serial killer Ted Bundy said before his execution that the one thing that made him determined to murder women was him watching them in pornography as a young boy.
Matthew 5:28
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
The above verse says volumes. Just starting there with what the eye is exposed to the mind devises evil. The eye is a gateway to the soul and when one masterbates; the damage is done to the soul and spirit.
2 Corinthians 7:1
1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
The following verses are not meant to be taken literally. But think about it, if a member was being used (hand, eye, or even the mind)...it'd better it were spiritually cut off than to cast the whole body in...
Matthew 5:30
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut if off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
I hope this helps and knowing someone who struggled with this addiction for many years, there is hope...but only in Christ Jesus. That's the only way to overcome this addiction.
Ezekiel 43:10 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
Thou son of man, shew the house to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities: and let them measure the pattern.
Philippians 1:20 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
According to my earnest expectation and my hope, that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but that with all boldness, as always, so now also Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether it be by life, or by death.
2 Corinthians 7:14 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
For if I have boasted any thing to him of you, I am not ashamed; but as we spake all things to you in truth, even so our boasting, which I made before Titus, is found a truth.
Joel 1:11 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
Be ye ashamed, O ye husbandmen; howl, O ye vinedressers, for the wheat and for the barley; because the harvest of the field is perished.
Jeremiah 50:12 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
Your mother shall be sore confounded; she that bare you shall be ashamed: behold, the hindermost of the nations shall be a wilderness, a dry land, and a desert.
Psalms 37:19 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
They shall not be ashamed in the evil time: and in the days of famine they shall be satisfied.
2 Thessalonians 3:14 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
1 Peter 3:16 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
Hello John. I only recall there is only one Tribulation still to come. It is called, The Great Tribulation ( Matthew 24:21). Jesus said in John 16:33, "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." Here, 'tribulation' is simply the sufferings, hardships, even persecutions that we all might face (as also Romans 8:35; 2 Corinthians 7:4; etc.). But the Great Tribulation that Jesus speaks of, & other epistle writers also refer to, is the time of the outpouring of God's Wrath ( Revelation 6:17; Revelation 16:1; 1 Thessalonians 5:9; Ephesians 5:6); an anger against the accumulated wickedness of Earth's inhabitants which cannot be held back by Him any longer. The deaths & devastation will be frightening to say the least & the world will know that this is the Anger of the Lord upon them & none will be innocent bystanders - all those left on Earth will stand guilty before Him.
If that's how we deal with sin, and even regret for sin - than surely regrets that were in no violation of the commandments (if that was the case) should be dealt with in the same manner, if not even more graciously - the Lord God does not expect us to be completely flawless (while on this earth), and because that's not what He looks for, even if you reached a point where you never made any mistakes (which won't happen), the Lord would not impressed:
Luke 17:10 "So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do."
What the Lord looks for is repentance and faith:
Mark 1:15
"And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel."
As well as hope and charity:
1 Corinthians 13:13
"And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity."
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If there is anything underlying the regrets, such as past sin, 2 Corinthians 7:8-11 showed us to have godly sorrow breaking God's commandments:
Romans 13:9 "For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."
And when mixed with faith in Jesus Christ salvation is received if unsaved, and all is forgiven - and once saved (not that we ever lose our salvation), but we can continue to repent for sins and have peace in knowing He understands we are made of dust, and we still have His total forgiveness:
Psalm 103
12As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.
13Like as a father pitieth his children, so the LORD pitieth them that fear him.
14For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust.
I thought i carried offence for years....only this week i realised it was regret...what does gods word say about holding onto regrets.even though those family members are now dead.?
Hello Mishael, thank you for your comments. I am glad you found the Lord. Praise God. Sounds like you went through a lot. Glad you look to God's word for your answers, I think it is sufficient for all problems/solutions. Forgiveness is of utmost importance. Matthew 6:14-15.
I don't think there are any biblical references to 'forgiving yourself' though. 2 Corinthians 7:10. 1 John 1:9. God forgives us. We repent of our sins with grief and Godly sorrow and place our faith in Jesus. Mark 1:15. Mark 6:12.
Prayer is absolutely critical, I agree.
He will speak to us through His word. Romans 6:1-4.
Thanks again, God bless you and Adam for your responses.
How do you know you are experiencing godly sorrow 2 Corinthians 7:10-11 that leads to repentance? Is there a way to be sure that you are properly repented toward GOD and not causing yourself a guilt trip which does not lead to change or glorify GOD? Also another serious question, what do you suggest if you feel like sin doesn't bother you like it used to? Just pray about it?
How do you know you are experiencing godly sorrow 2 Corinthians 7:10-11 that leads to repentance? Is there a way to be sure that you are properly repented toward GOD and not causing yourself a guilt trip which does not lead to change or glorify GOD? Also another serious question, what do you suggest if you feel like sin doesn't bother you like it used to? Just pray about it?
You are so correct I battle with a certain sin and sometimes I go years staying away but at a certain point find myself giving in I don't want to fall anymore I love God and I want to show him I love him by the way I live and not sin!
Amen Mountain Preacher GBU . But many times i think of that scripture. The spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made us Free from that law of sin and death . And if be lifted up i will draw ALL MEN UNTO ME.
I am trying with this subject not to go to the extreme of saying that anything we do can save ourselves. What I will say is that what we do can bring us into condemnation at least until He truly lives within us; and we are truly saved. I will also state that EVERY step to salvation is inspired by the Holy Spirit. Even hearing the message which has the potential to bring someone to salvation is confined to this life; we don't get any second chances after we die.
We all start out in this life hearing the Gospel message and responding one way or another. We have to ask how the Spirit works in each part of the process. I will state that scripture seems to make it clear that even if we don't understand the mysteries of the church and how the Spirit indwells someone who is a believer prior to salvation no one in hell from all scripture we see on the subject is there without sins convicting their consciences in this life. Hearing the Word causes a reaction for anyone hearing it; whether believing or rejecting it. One can come to Christ after hearing the Word multiple times (as I did) but the person once they hear it and understand in their minds cannot say they are unaware of the basic truths of the Gospel; that is if presented correctly. I believe that true repentance only comes from the Lord but as 2 Corinthians 7:10 states that repentance leads TO salvation (see also 2 Timothy 2:25 on God GRANTING repentance). Logically; a person must HEAR the word; then have true repentance and then act on it. I would argue at that stage repentance first involves a DESIRE then definite ACTION to turn away from sin; and more importantly our former LIFESTYLE of sin. Also; a true believer continues in the faith until the end; but for some that involves God having to severely discipline a person; and as Corinthians states; some have "fallen asleep" taking communion unworthily; others are given over to Satan but still saved.
Whether in the "Arminian" or "Calvinistic" camps; God's sovereignty and man's inability to save himself apart from His grace is fairly universally accepted. The issue comes in as to whether mans' "free will" acts to make a decision whether to follow or not follow Christ and "accept" Him into their hearts. Both camps will hold to Romans 10:9 related to a verbal and heartfelt confession accompanying saving faith. I would contend that it is not as some like to call it "decisional regeneration" that occurs as a result of something we say; but that what we say is a reflection of God already moving one towards repentance as scripture states it is a gift of God ( 2 Tim. 2:25 and also stated in the Book of Acts). We are truly saved "apart from the law" ( Romans 3:21) by grace; but of course Paul makes it clear that we aren't granted a "license to sin" once we have escaped from the wrath of God. Nothing we can do will earn us grace; and more importantly there is no desire in unregenerate man to follow God; at best man can try to avoid the consequences of sin which of course makes us all as Judas Iscariot who betrayed Christ yet realized he had betrayed an innocent man and thus hung himself. (see 2 Corinthians 7:10). It should be obvious how essential the doctrine of grace is; as all other eligions and even Christian cults will offer a combination of faith in Christ and works as needed to be saved; or it is asceticism such as Eastern religions offer that seem to bring a utopia for someone after doing good works after a lengthy cycle of death and rebirth (reincarnation) which of course fundamentally is opposed by Hebrews 9:27. Often it is another Christ; whether presented as as sage or great prophet which is expounded that we should follow rather than the true Jesus who was the Son of God. John 8:24 makes it clear that we must believe that "I am" truly meaning that He is the Christ. ( Matt. 16:13-20). ONLY CHRIST CAN REVEAL THE TRUTH TO A MAN.
(MacBeth; William Shakesphere 5th Act).
This quote is in the play regards the death of MacBeth's wife. There are shades of Ecclesiastes here of vanity and life passing as a vapor; but also the idea of the second part of this verse in 2 Corinthians 7:10...
"For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death." This verse shows the futility of those who; like Judas Iscariot regret the consequences of their sin; whether on themselves ultimately or how it affects others (in his case leading to suicide). We can see the same sort of mindset with Pilate who in John 19:11 was told that others had greater sin but nonetheless his attempts to release him were not out of reverence for His holiness but attempts to quell extremes of rebellion from both the Jews and the Romans in making a wrong decision. Ultimately; both these cases show cowardice which is one reason people will go to hell according to Revelation 21:8.
We shouldn't assume that emotion shouldn't accompany true repentence leading to salvation but that it is the Spirit which takes over and the emotions are part of a cleansing process. When given a new heart we are transformed from the inside out and can't help but cry out to God; as Isaiah did "woe is me" ( Isaiah 6:5). This shows the humble and contrite spirit David describes in Psalm 51 and elsewhere. Penitence from any other method assuming some goodness we have in ourselves apart from Christ is meaningless. This is what makes those from a Christian family background have to test themselves to see if they are in the faith ( 2 Cor. 13:5). We can't change our hearts from mere assent of doctrinal statements or scripture. More to come.
1 Corinthians 5:4-5 is the account
Here is how I understand what we are discussing.
4,5) - "In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
To deliver such an one unto Satan FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF THE FLESH, THAT THE SPIRIT MAY BE SAVED IN THE DAY OF THE LORD JESUS.
I don't believe Paul is talking about condemnation as to one's salvation.
He's not talking about forgiveness of sins. He's talking about excommunicating this person.
The Corinthians was a proud church and continuing on as if there was nothing wrong. Delivering him to Satan for the destruction of the flesh would be his just punishment.
This is chastening not condemning.
( that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.)
This would cause him to repent, I will come to that later.
As we read on in the following verses we see where Paul urges them to not keep company with evil doers of the world.
He is now writing them to not keep company with any man that is called a brother that's an evil doer.
A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. ( 1 Corinthians 5:6-13.
Back to the evil doer in question. I believe here in 2 Corinthians 2:2-11 we have the account where this guy repented from those evil deeds.
Paul was coming down on the whole congregation for this cause.
I believe this account is in
2 Corinthians 7:8-12.
Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. ( That's Christ. )
We are commissioned to preach Christ. If a person reject Christ, that person shall be bound on earth as he or she is bound in heaven: and if that person receives Christ he or she shall loosed on earth as they are loosed in heaven.
I agree, perhaps others may like to share their thoughts.
Thanks and God bless
The bulk of this discussion is focused on men who profess to believe as a Christian and who are seeking faith as a means to an end. This; in my opinion is far more insidious; and leads to greater judgment than the average pagan who overtly worship false gods. We have discussed Lot's wife; and of course in New Testament times we have warnings such as Hebrews 10:29 to seriously consider as well as the previous verse. We have more than the law now; we have the Bible; the written testimony of God with His redemptive plan for us.
Part of the problem; as I have pointed out a number of times is the concept of "decisional regeneration". We can follow the admonition of Romans 10:9 and attest to the veracity of John 3:16 and a few other basic verses on salvation for a number of reasons; but apart from a transformation through the Holy Spirit and God drawing a person toward repentance we are NOT saved. This concept is found in 5 scriptures as either granting or leading someone to repenetance (see 2 Tim. 2:25; Romans 2:4). Two types of sorrow are mentioned in 2 Corinthians 7:10; godly and worldly sorrow. The end result is either spiritual death or life. (compare Peter to Judas Iscariot after Gethsemene; and until His crucifixion for examples of these two types of sorrow). I would go farther though; some of us haven't even considered the consequences of our sins and how it would affect us at the end of this life; and Judgment Day. Fear of hell may not save someone without an appreciation for the Holiness of God and how we have offended our Creator; which comes in a large part after we are saved (experientially slow for some; immediate for others). But true repentance gives us some realization of our state apart from Christ along with a new heart ( Ezekiel 11:19-20).
I will say that in today's world; it is going to get very costly to even confess Christ; assuming; of course it is real church that we are declaring allegiance to
Recently a book on the subject (apparently there were several) was studied in small group; in this case one by Randy Alcorn. There were some questions on one of his video shorts and not total agreement; nonetheless other segments and much written in the book seem scripturally solid.
What we see in scripture shows how saints of God will; at least after the Tribulation and what I believe eschatologically to be the Millennium (and certainly for eternity afterwards) be ruling and reigning on earth. The difference will be in the New Jerusalem being above earth rather than on earth as happens in Revelation 21. I will note that it is the New Jerusalem; not the entire planet or place where heaven is that comes to earth. It would seem that would remain somewhere else. Ezekiel 1:22 seem to suggest an expanse of ice; M.J. Agee seems to think the location is identifiable. For the sake of avoiding unnecessary controversy I will keep the basic premise that it is somewhere beyond our physical universe.
The key; again is scripture; Jesus stated that "you know where I am going." ( John 14:4-6). The issue where was that they had seen God in Christ who was a member of the Trinity and always did the Father's will. How to get there of course is through the narrow gate which all but the son of Perdition could enter of the 12 Disciples ( Matthew 7:13-14). This is perhaps the biggest point that needs to be hammered home. Other than believing in a literal heaven as being a priority we also need to realize that only by His righteousness can we pass from death to life and most will take the wide road to destruction. That necessitates elimination of any universalist sentiments. I have stated before the concept of 2 Corinthians 7:10 where godly sorrow brings repentance rather than the type Judas Iscariot had as to sadness on the consequences of his actions. Peter showed true repentance because he knew He had betrayed the Son of God who he truly loved.
Thanks again Jimbob for your thoughts on this. Tribulation or Great Tribulation? I see a difference. The apostles, the early Church & believers today are not exempt from tribulation; it will come to us as declared ( Matthew 13:21; John 16:33; Acts 14:22; Romans 8:35; 2 Corinthians 7:4; etc): not just physical hardships, but certainly the exercises by the enemy against us, even to testings of faith & martyrdom. We are not insulated from any of these, nor should we expect to be, but what of the Tribulation sent by God our Father? You shared 1 Thessalonians 3:4, "For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know." You understand that Paul was referring to the Great Tribulation, of God's Wrath. I don't see that at all in his discourse, rather, that Paul was describing his own afflictions (vv 3,7 & coupled with 1 Thessalonians 2:2,9,14). I see a clear difference between the two expressions of Tribulation: that which comes to all of us, & that which is only directed to haters of God & His Christ.
What then are we not appointed to? To our daily tribulations, even to suffering or dying for Christ, or to God's Wrath to unbelievers? I note that you agree to this: that believers won't face the outpouring of God's Wrath against a Christ-rejecting World, by your understanding that this outpouring will happen only after the believers are caught away (i.e. post-tribulation). The contention then is: is God's Wrath the same as the Great Tribulation? I believe the Great Tribulation is still to come - we haven't in the least begun to experience anything of it now. When it starts, we know that the time of the end is at hand and believers will be caught away before the world begins to feel the Mighty Hand of God against them. (cont'd).
Observances of a type of schizophrenia behavior, mutterings, body-shaking, violent actions, vile or blasphemous language, would be indications of such possession. And those who do not belong to Christ, or allow themselves to drift away from Him (backslide), & turn to activities that are clearly demonic, open themselves up to this evil & its oppressions.
But if one has grown lukewarm in their faith & not given priority to matters of Bible reading, prayer, & Christian fellowship, he/she will need to take stock of their present condition. If they realize that this is the case, I would see here the first steps to sorrow & repentance for their departure & maybe denial of Christ. 2 Corinthians 7:10 reads, "For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death." When there is a true (godly) sorrow in the heart for the life lived apart from Jesus, that leads to true repentance leading to salvation. But the 'remorse' that the ungodly world might feel yet without repentance, will never give them forgiveness & eternal life. Judas Iscariot was one such when he betrayed his Lord, when Satan filled his heart to do what he did. But if one has back-slid & there being no evidence of evil manifestations, except for a life unworthy of the Lord's Love, I don't believe that demon possession would be evident. By turning heart, mind & body over to the Lord, all evil forces will scatter - this soul has been redeemed, saved & secured by the all-powerful Blood of the Lamb of God. Nothing nor anyone can withstand that.
I don't know if you have a Bible or access to one, I would recommend this scriptures to reflect on: Psalms 23, 1 Peter 5:5-10, 2 Corinthians 7:10, 2 Corinthians 12:7-10, Romans 10: 9-13, and Romans 7: 9-25.
I would also suggest finding a bible based church and support group based in faith in Jesus Christ that studying the bible and do activities that helps others. Idleness is a foothold to the devil.
We overcome these things in and through the holy spirit.
Christ died for these sins that go before us and follow after!
We should always be confident that what Jesus has done is sufficient to forgive us of these sins. There are no specific sins that keep us from the frustration of the Holy Spirit. Sin is who we are. Jesus calls us evil! Imagine that!
There is nothing we can do to change this condition, but believe that Jesus death and ressurection cleanses us from all sin. That we are reconciled unto God through the shed blood of Christ! Praise Him, sing unto Him! He loves you!
It should explain His promise to you, and how He will be your God and ye His people, and how to receive this promise, and it's not by the building with the temple of idols.
He goes on to say come out come out of the midst of them(unbelievers), and be ye separate.
And will be for a Father to you, and ye shall be to Him for sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all pollution of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
We should all know this promise, and remind Him of it,,, He wants us to.
(Part 2)
I think that's the most startling thing that a believer can find out, and especially with the way people present salvation today, they say "Hey, do you want to go to heaven and have your sins forgiven? Just pray this prayer." And no one tells them that if indeed you are serious, and if indeed you really did get saved, that God's Spirit has come to dwell in you and you've been set apart for Him. You're not your own anymore!
People aren't told that. They are not told that you've been set apart, and that your biggest struggle is going to be thinking that you can go back to living and approaching life like you did before you were saved. No, you've been set apart for Christ. Love not the world, neither the things in the world. Be separate and come out from among them. Be not unequally yoked together.
And so we are to cleanse ourselves and do this in the perfecting of sanctification, maturing in the lifestyle of sanctification, drawing closer to Christ. And notice the basis for this. It says in the fear of God. That's a healthy reverence for God. And just in our own human, we naturally do not fear God. And if we do respect Him, we fear people more than we do God.
Sometimes we know that we are disobeying God, but we also know that He's a gracious God and He will forgive us, and people won't. So, we compromise our walk with Christ and then we ask God for forgiveness because we know He will forgive.
I hope this helps you!
(part 1)
Paul starts off 2 Corinthians by saying "having therefore these promises." What promises? These are promises at the end of Chapter 6. We see in Leviticus 26:12, Isaiah 52:11, and 2 Samuel 7:14, that the promise that God said I will come and I will dwell in you, and I will be your Father, and you will be my children. I will be your God and you will be my people.
Having these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit.
Now these are not technical terms (flesh and spirit). He's talking about realm. Don't pollute by getting involved in the spiritual forces of darkness. There's a spiritual influence over you, and don't get involved in those physical human fleshly things that war against the things of Christ. Let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness, that is, contamination of flesh and spirit.
Secondly: perfecting holiness in the fear of God. The word holiness is the word sanctification. He says you've been sanctified. You've been set apart for Christ. And we keep trying in the human social to cross the line and be socially joined and get our social needs met.
But at the same time, Paul is saying that you cannot compromise your walk with the Lord by getting involved in situations and with people that are going to influence your relationship with Christ and affect your effectiveness in your walk with Christ.
So, he says the key here is you've been set apart. God has set you apart. His promise is that He's going to be with you and dwell with you. And He is going to be your God and you are going to be His people. Therefore, perfect, (mature) the sanctification. We are sanctified the very moment that God's Spirit comes into our spirit. In 1 Thessalonians, Paul told the Christians in Thessalonica to walk in your sanctification.
1 Peter 2:17 says we are to fear God. There are three commands in that verse that are Present Imperatives, showing continuous action. One of them is that we are to be continually fear God. Is it right to fear God? Yes! In fact, just by studying the social habits of man, did you know that we make decisions based on who we fear the most, and who we love the most? Sometimes we compromise with our walk with the Lord because we fear how other people are going to react to us if we obey the Lord. We fear them. We fear rejection. We fear their response. But we are to fear God, not man. Why? Because fear causes compromise. We are to be continually fearing God.
In 2 Corinthians 7:1, it says, "Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God."
Here's the basis for this: It says in the fear of God. That's a healthy reverence for God. And just in our own human response, we naturally do not fear God. And if we do respect Him, we fear people more than we do God. Sometimes we know that we are disobeying God, but we also know that He's a gracious God and He will forgive us.
But oftentimes we compromise our walk with Christ and then we come back and ask God for forgiveness because we know He's gracious and that He will forgive. But we don't have a healthy fear. That is to say that if we're disobedient, what if God in His love decides to allow us or cause us to suffer the consequences. We think that God's going to protect us in all that we do, but He disciplines those that are His.
So perfect holiness in the fear of God, having a healthy fear of Him. It's the beginning of wisdom. It's the beginning of knowledge. It's the very first response that we need to be sensitive to. How aware am I of God and His power, God almighty, and the fact that I'm getting ready to make decisions in His presence that might be in disobedience to Him?
I hope this makes sense?
I choose to believe in the creation account as given by GOD in HIS Scripture. Everyone has to make their own choice or choices. May the LORD be praised and magnified as we bring our prayers and supplication to HIM regarding our present situation. Rising gas/oil, food, prices, pending war, social unrest, and spiritual and political leadership that needs to get back to leading.
These are just my thoughts, may the LORD bless all on this forum, and grant us peace and comfort in HIS Name.
JUne 8, 2022
Matthew 5:28
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
The above verse says volumes. Just starting there with what the eye is exposed to the mind devises evil. The eye is a gateway to the soul and when one masterbates; the damage is done to the soul and spirit.
2 Corinthians 7:1
1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
The following verses are not meant to be taken literally. But think about it, if a member was being used (hand, eye, or even the mind)...it'd better it were spiritually cut off than to cast the whole body in...
Matthew 5:30
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut if off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
I hope this helps and knowing someone who struggled with this addiction for many years, there is hope...but only in Christ Jesus. That's the only way to overcome this addiction.
Thou son of man, shew the house to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities: and let them measure the pattern.
Philippians 1:20 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
According to my earnest expectation and my hope, that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but that with all boldness, as always, so now also Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether it be by life, or by death.
2 Corinthians 7:14 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
For if I have boasted any thing to him of you, I am not ashamed; but as we spake all things to you in truth, even so our boasting, which I made before Titus, is found a truth.
Joel 1:11 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
Be ye ashamed, O ye husbandmen; howl, O ye vinedressers, for the wheat and for the barley; because the harvest of the field is perished.
Jeremiah 50:12 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
Your mother shall be sore confounded; she that bare you shall be ashamed: behold, the hindermost of the nations shall be a wilderness, a dry land, and a desert.
Psalms 37:19 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
They shall not be ashamed in the evil time: and in the days of famine they shall be satisfied.
2 Thessalonians 3:14 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
1 Peter 3:16 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
Luke 17:10 "So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do."
What the Lord looks for is repentance and faith:
Mark 1:15
"And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel."
As well as hope and charity:
1 Corinthians 13:13
"And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity."
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If there is anything underlying the regrets, such as past sin, 2 Corinthians 7:8-11 showed us to have godly sorrow breaking God's commandments:
Romans 13:9 "For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."
And when mixed with faith in Jesus Christ salvation is received if unsaved, and all is forgiven - and once saved (not that we ever lose our salvation), but we can continue to repent for sins and have peace in knowing He understands we are made of dust, and we still have His total forgiveness:
Psalm 103
12As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.
13Like as a father pitieth his children, so the LORD pitieth them that fear him.
14For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust.
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I would encourage you to read all of Psalm 103
I don't think there are any biblical references to 'forgiving yourself' though. 2 Corinthians 7:10. 1 John 1:9. God forgives us. We repent of our sins with grief and Godly sorrow and place our faith in Jesus. Mark 1:15. Mark 6:12.
Prayer is absolutely critical, I agree.
He will speak to us through His word. Romans 6:1-4.
Thanks again, God bless you and Adam for your responses.