"But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat."
1 Corinthians 5:12
"For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?"
1 Corinthians 5:13
"But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person."
The Devil: 1 Corinthians 5:9 states: For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
and Isaiah 24:21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
We read further in Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
This is the fate of those who are Raptured; to see that day when the accuser is finally cast down and his minions. To tempt us then accuse us when we fall is something God has allowed the enemy to do so we learn to trust in the Lord and rely not on our own understanding. There is a way which seems right unto a man but leads to death ( Prov. 14:12).
This subject if understood properly shows us that none of has any strength to do battle in our own efforts. We see this when the prophet Daniel encountered visions of the beast to come in the final world kingdom as well as with the angels that ministered to him. Job learned he couldn't contend with God and was apparently unaware that Satan was allowed to test him and cause much of his misery physically and in the original blitz he was on with the whirlwind that destroyed his family; the tribesmen that came down as well to ruin his crops. We need to keep this in mind or we will think that all we need to do is change our behavior to avoid repercussions or think that is the only problem. The fact is our old nature in a true believer IS in reality dead but the enemy does things to revitalize the feelings we had before we came to faith. For a true believer the new life in Christ IS what and who they really are and the old nature an illusion. The enemy induces a thought and still can elicit sin which causes God's chastisement.
1 Thessalonians 5:1-10. Agreed, 2 Peter 3:10 speaks of the Day of the Lord coming unexpectedly with the major upheaval of the heavens and Earth, as does Paul, who possibly infers that there is a wider time frame or meaning regarding that Day ( 1 Corinthians 5:5 & 2 Corinthians 1:14). In any case, it involves all things associated with Jesus' Day of appearing. So here in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-10, Paul iterates that that Day will come suddenly, thus it being a useless exercise to attempt placing it in a time frame, but as the Church is the children of God living in the light and not as those who live in darkness, that Day would not suddenly come upon them. Rather they should be comforted and fully clothed with the Spirit because God has not appointed them to His wrath (of verse 3) but to be saved from this through the Lord Jesus' (v9). If this saving from God's Wrath is to refer to His Wrath against man's sins, then there appears no reason for mentioning this in this context. His Wrath here is anger towards unbelievers at that time who will face His "sudden destruction". And to give further support to this meaning, we can look at 1 Thessalonians 1:10, Paul stating that the Church was "to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come".
Yes, Matthew chap 24 is about Jesus' Second Coming and particularly Matthew 24:29-31, that the powers of the heavens will be shaken, Jesus' appearing in the skies, the tribes of the earth mourning, and the gathering together of his Elect from all over the world. Some would assume that not only this scene is connected with 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:51,52, but also that the Elect referred to are all those in Christ. To Page 3.
As born again children, we are to behave like children of God.
We can't take our father's name in vain!
God loves us and he chasteneth those he loves.
Hebrews 12:2-8 sums it up.
"Looking unto Jesus THE AUTHOR AND FINISHER OF OUR FAITH; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
FOR WHOM THE LORD LOVETH HE CHASTENING, AND SCOURGETHE EVERY SON WHOM HE RECEIVETH.
IF YE ENDURE CHASTENING, GOD DEALETH WITH YOU AS WITH SON'S; FOR WHAT SON IS HE WHOM THE FATHER CHASTENING NOT?
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
We know our Great Shepherd voice! The Lord keeps his sheep in line whether by chastening or even by death but he will never let us depart from him and he will never forsake us as we see in
1 Corinthians 5:5!
"To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, THAT THE SPIRIT MAY BE SAVED IN THE DAY OF THE LORD JESUS.
Also.
Man righteousness is as filthy rags!
Thank God for blood of the Lamb that made us righteousness before the eyes of our Father!
I couldn't grab hold of salvation with my filthy rags and I certainly cannot restore salvation with my filthy rags.
Praise God for this new heart of flesh that causes us to WALK in his statues and praise God for his rod when I don't!
In walking with God Jesus allows the enemy to gain strongholds on us because of unrepentant sin. This seems like a no brainer and a concept we all should understand but there is much to be learned about the enemy's tactics.
Again; I am absolutely convinced that this is one of the Lord's chief ways of sanctifying us. On one hand we are instructed in general as the woman caught in adultery to "go and sin no more" ( John 8:11). Now this was a case specific LIFESTYLE sin where she came within the brink of death; it reminds us of the man killed who had been a paralytic for decades not to sin anymore lest something "worse" happen to him. ( John 5:14). In this case we see a man healed although we don't know if he was saved; as with many other individuals. For a believer as I stated in an earlier post today an early demise isn't outside of the realm of possibility for us. The idea here is that it is a chastisement; for instance in 1 Corinthians 5:5.
Now we don't know necessarily if someone is a false convert to begin with (a tare) or a believer in Christ. God could take out a tare as well but in general when we see those in lifestyles of sin who likely are tares they don't have any conviction from the Spirit except to avoid being caught and God lets them build up wrath until fully ripe; as it were in their sins. The basic point here is that a TRUE BELIEVER IS God's child; whether making it into heaven with great reward or as through the fire. It is a pathetic thing when the latter happens but often ignored is the idea of spiritual maturity and the loss of those who will forfeit eternal rewards ( Rev. 3:11). What there won't be is any desire to argue with God or those who will rule as kings and priests; at least during the Millennium. Don't get me wrong ALL of us will be ever grateful to be with the Lord but nonethess ( Heb. 11:6) shows we must believe He is a rewarder which implies crowns in heaven.
Hi CrossTalker. The reason I shared 2 Timothy 2:19 was to emphasize, "The Lord knoweth them that are his". I feel this is the first part of the answer: i.e. the LORD makes no mistakes as to those who truly belong to Him - these have truly come under the Holy Spirit's conviction of sin & its consequences, and in brokenness, have confessed them before God, embracing what Jesus had done for them on the Cross, & have fully placed their faith & life in God's Hands.
The above is what sinful man's response is to the Gospel & the Holy Spirit's change that has happened internally & will exhibit externally as the Spirit is allowed to work in that redeemed life. However, your question is about the "unrepentant believer" continuing in unabated sin. Are we in a position to know whether that unrepentant believer is even a believer? As the apostle did, so we must do also: share the Gospel with them, show God's requirements, give God's warnings, teach and encourage from the Bible, nurture and help. Where sin was rampant in a person's life, where false teaching was brought in to distort the Truth, where believers are led towards sin instead of godliness, and the works of Satan are seen in the person rather than the works of the Holy Spirit which leads to brokenness, repentance & change, then that person is an imposter & to be identified as such & consigned to the world of darkness (as the apostles did).
But a true believer is sealed & adopted into the family of God & he will know when he strays or plays with sin by the Spirit speaking within him. If he resists the Spirit's warning & encouragement, then punishment, even death ensues, so "that the spirit might be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus" ( 1 Corinthians 5:5). I don't believe that any true believer will enter the Lake of Fire; if God sends him there, it is accepted that they were unbelievers without a Spirit-filled, Spirit-led life on Earth - just imposters defaming the LORD's Name & leading His people astray.
So, I see these as two separate events (justice from an earthly judge & from an Heavenly Judge); the first is limited to what is evident before Him, the other, is the sickness of sin in the heart that condemns, for which no time can be served or penalty paid, except through faith in God's Act of Love in sending His Son as our substitute in judgement and payment.
2. (Physical Punishment vs Emotional Punishment). I don't believe that the Bible records such specifics as you have given (i.e. the intangible, emotional wounds that people cause to others). We are simply told that any sin (whether murder, rape, or even down to hurtful comments or 'white lies') are all sin. For the unbeliever who engages in any sin, his own conscience will dictate whether he continues in it or alters his course. For the believer, who is a true believer with the Holy Spirit within and in charge, no sin can ever be committed without that Holy Voice alerting him to impending sin or sin engaged in. What does a believer then do? He repents, finding forgiveness, & turns from that sin, now restored into a healthy relationship with the LORD. If he refuses to heed the Spirit, then discipline in some form follows ( Hebrews 12:5-11 is worth reading). And if he continues to disregard God's warnings, then God might just remove that life, so that the spirit might be saved at Christ's appearing ( 1 Corinthians 5:1-5).
Perhaps a good way to start this commentary series is to focus on what we should NOT be praying about. John makes it clear from scripture we shouldn't pray about a sin leading to death ( 1 John 5:16). Paul sort of expands on that when expelling a brother when he says that: To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. ( 1 Cor. 5:5). These verses show that we indeed should desire a person returns to fellowship as the man did who committed the heinous sin of sleeping with his father's wife ( 2 Corinthians 2:7-8); which I assume the verse on restoration is referring to from 1 Corinthians.
Now the 10000 dollar question is what sin leads to death; clearly the result of all sins is death; but we could say someone who murders someone could qualify for that particular sin. Or in the above verses we should pray that through God's discipline someone repents not pray for them to be restored before repenting; or seek somehow to circumvent God's clear instructions not to fellowship with those who proclaim Christ but live i willful lifestyles of sin We see in 1 Corinthians 5:11 that particular instruction.
I think from these verses there are proper times when we should pray for conviction of sin; and that applies to a professed Christian who is either lapsing in sin or has progressed or never removed themselves from such a lifestyle but our approach is different. The nonbeliever MUST be convicted as John 16:8 states so that sin; righteousness and judgment to come are paramount in their fear of God that is the beginning of wisdom. ( Proverbs 9:10).
Too many people seem to think that rebuke and prayers for conviction and lovingkindness; mercy and compassion are mutually exclusive. We need only to look at Christ to see how both exist; with more warnings of hell than statements about heaven; and yet sacrificing His life throughout his earthly ministry and atoning death.
Further warnings of spiritual "experiences" that have led people astray.
Study into many cults shows similarities to the many revivals as to women being at the very least venerated as "Prophets" and in some cases practically deified and worshipped along with a spurious version of Christ. There are some exceptions with Whitfield and the Edwards and some others as to what appear to be true moves of God of repentance; and we need to look at the fruits of those who are in charge of such events to avoid deception to proliferate to the masses. I have stated before that a lack of Discipleship is evident particularly in the last 100 years when there were large revival or tent meetings; and this also reflects the weakness of the churches who have been present that some attend after conversion. I would state that people who repent at such gatherings should plan to work with local churches and vice versa and not plan on any type of movement to last for a great length of time. Certainly prayer and other necessary functions in the local churches must be emphasized for any long lasting true movements of God. The emphasis must be as it was with the sermon "sinners in the hands of an angry God" (Jonathan Edwards) rather than seeking an experience.
1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
It doesn't take much in studying many so called Apostles or revival leaders to see evidence of many of these bad fruits.
Brother Giannis. Thank you for reminding us about our often quick judgement of others, when we need to first look at ourselves & take stock of our own sins & inadequacies before condemning others in theirs.
However, I would seek your impressions or understanding of the passage you quoted ( Romans 2:1-4) and also 1 Corinthians 5:9-13. I believe the latter one commands the Church to judge anyone who is "called a brother" & deal with him for his sins, by separation from him and excommunication. Yet, Romans 2:1-4 seems to denounce any judgement, knowing that the same sins are committed and we all stand under God's Judgement.
So, the problem I see here is, to whom is the apostle referring to in Romans? In chapter 1, he clearly is referring to the unsaved Gentiles ( Romans 1:18-32), showing their idolatry, lusts, & many sins. But when the apostle continues on in chapter 2, it now seems that the unsaved Jew is being spoken of, as those who are now hypocrites, judging others when their own sins are exposed. His use of "O Man, whosoever thou art that judgest" (v1) and "Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law" (v17), indicates that Paul is now speaking to/about the unsaved Jew, who are no different to the Gentile, in their hypocrisy & unjust judgement.
The point I'm making here is, given those Scripture portions for consideration, I wonder what the limitations of the Church or even an individual believer are in this matter of judgement. Clearly, the elders have to continually make judgements against others (whether they choose to do so by identifying them, counseling, warning, or expulsion), and we too as individual believers need to recognize sinning wayward congregants, therefore making some type of judgement against them (whether done internally in our hearts or not). Maybe judgement is allowed after all, yet it must always be a 'righteous judgement', without hypocrisy & knowing that we still have to answer to the Lord for our thoughts, words & actions.
Should a Christian pray for someone to die because of sin or teaching another doctrine ? ?
Peter wanted to kill one of the high priest' s servant when Jesus was taken .
Jesus Christ was not having anyone to fight for him, he stopped it right away.
John 18:10
Then SimonPeterhaving a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his rightear. The servant's name was Malchus.
Apostle Paul pray that the young man should be taken by Satan because of the relationship between him and his stepmother . I truly believe, Apostle Paul regret saying that and repented.
1 Corinthians 5:5
To deliver such an one untoSatanfor the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
I had a Pastor that prayed that God would take away his backsliding sister, she was a bad testimony for the church. Years past on, my Pastor wife passed away and he got remarried and then my Pastor died. I loved the man, but I think he man a mistake. God will love who he wants to love.
Romans 9:13
As it is written,Jacobhave I loved, but Esau have I hated.
We will never know God's thoughts. I can never look at someone and say because they said this and that, they should never live. It's God choice to let Satan to take us out.
Isaiah 55:8
Formythoughtsare not yourthoughts, neither are your waysmyways, saith theLord.
May we all live a great life with Jesus Christ and continues the race and finish it in Faith.
I need to remind myself more and more often that all the events we see in the world today are just a reflection of what is going on in high places today; with the raging spiritual war in the 2nd heaven. Of course it is only through the 3rd heaven; exercising the authority through the Spirit of the power of Christ above that enables us to actually engage in any combat to resist the legions of evil that are controlling the masses today.
The sad fact is that many professing believers aren't really in the faith at all; and the rest that are only have a small segment that are in this "vertical" aspect in the spiritual realm. In terms of what is proclaimed; therefore in the first example people are calling on endless blessings by making presumptuous proclamations and twisting certain verses to align with their own agendas. In the second case; for all those who have the potential to be in the battle many aren't protected with the proper armor or are not offensively fighting with the sword of the Spirit as Ephesians 12 tells us to do as our only offensive weapon we have.
It is one thing to preach of God's love and forgiveness to God's enemies as Jesus did; selflessly until death. People can over or underemphasize the fact of man's depravity and enmity with God with humans; but with demons and Satan himself we dare not make the mistake of viewing them as anything but enemies; out to steal; kill and destroy both our own lives as individuals through various means such as intimidation; accusation and temptation but also controlling the whole world system (world; flesh and devil).
Here is some practical advice.
1 Corinthians 5:11
James 1:26
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Jude 1:23
2 Timothy 3:13
Ephesians 5:11-12
2 Corinthians 6:17
1 Peter 5:8-9
Proverbs 4:23-27
God is working all things according to His purposes for our good. To be tried we are tested to see what is genuine ( 1 Peter 1:7).
May God grant us the strength to endure until the end.
Angels are redeemed men, now in the kingdom of God, made ONE FLESH with Christ, the angel of God, by the death and resurrection of Christ, the angel of God's presence.
Isaiah 63:9 And in all their (man kinds) affections, he (Christ) was afflicted, and the angel (Christ) of HIS (the father's) presence SAVED THEM: in his (the Father's) love and in his (the Father's) pity, he redeemed them (by sacrificing his son), and carried them all the days of old.
Hebrews 1:17 ...Who maketh his angels SPIRITS, and his ministers (messengers) a flame of fire.
1 Corinthians 5:5 To deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the SPIRIT (his angels) might be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
"If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it."
In studying the entire chapter in relation to today's scripture verse we see the contrast between statements related to those of God not sinning and other verses which indicate anyone who says they are without sin are a liar and the truth not in them (actually 1 John 1:8 so I should have said in studying the entire book). I am not studying that but this verse specifically in regard to the "sin unto death" and its implications.
Paul mentions letting a man be given to Satan in 1 Corinthians 5:5:
"To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."
That could be one application. Another would be related perhaps to the law and justifiable punishment of a death penalty for homocide. It also applied to adultery although it would appear this punishment was not as common in the time of Christ and especially once the church stated to flourish towards the end of the 1st Century AD. Since the church was being addressed here the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit shouldn't be the cause; although it certainly would apply to unbelievers as the "unforgiveable sin" as mentioned in the Gospels ( Mark 3:28-29; also verses in Matthew).
The context of the rest of the verse shows how we can pray that God will heal and restore a brother caught in sin and once again emphasizes the idea of confessing our sins to one another ( James 5:16). This is also mentioned in the Gospels at initial salvation ( Matt. 3:6) and most often to God Himself in a plethora of other scriptures. Matthew 5:23-24 speaks of leaving a "gift before the altar" and restoring relationship with a brother which alludes to the Old Testament sacrifice but certainly is applicable now. Sin hurts us and others.
Hello Momsage. The 'Once saved Always saved' belief isn't something created, rather found in the God's Word. You have recently alluded to the Work of the Holy Spirit in the translation of the Scriptures (particularly the KJB). And so too, the Work of the Holy Spirit must be commenced, continued, & completed in the life of a person now IN Christ. If this isn't so, then the one claiming & believing to be a Christian is misinformed or deluded.
Your statement that "If a person lives a life of a true believer then they are saved. If a person lives a life of sin then they need to repent and accept Christ as their Savior in order to be saved", is true but simplistic. What it is lacking, is God's Work of salvation, of placing the seal of His Spirit in us, of securing, of adoption, of power, of correction even death. It might be one thing when we can observe a person who shows all the marks of a faithful Christian & we believe & accept that person as part of God's family. But it becomes quite another thing to know what the unseen life of the person actually is and how faithful he will be under temptation, persecution, or death. We may not know the person's state, but God knows & I believe, the 'Christian' himself will know.
The other aspect of this errant belief is that a Christian can be saved, yet step in and out of the faith, at will. Can we ever assume that God can be played with, with His Holy Spirit popping in & out of a person according to one's estrangement from the Lord & subsequent repentance? I don't see this happening anywhere in Scripture, rather that we remain very diligent in the salvation given us ( Philippians 2:12), not for fear of losing it, but to avoid the correction & discipline of the Lord ( Hebrews 12:5-11) when we sin; or even having to lose our lives if correction goes unheeded so that our spirits might yet be saved ( 1 Corinthians 5:1-5).
The Lord's Work is always gracious towards His children - He knows those who are His - He won't let us go.
Necessary doctrines: Fruit vs non fruit bearing activities
When we get into practical things; for instance the last few chapters of Romans after the lengthy dissertation on the depravity of man (no one is rightous); and the "Gospel of Grace" related to covenants and the like; there could be a tendancy to discount our behaviors as being as important as these doctrinal truths. The fact is they are both important and we can't live bearing good fruit without following the truth and showing obedient love for Christ with our lifestyles. We only need to look at Luke 6:46 to see the importance of doing what He says; and John 14:15 which shows that if we love Him we will obey His commandments. The basic command to love one another is seen in both the Gospel of John and first John as a necessary mandate for a true brother in Christ. This should be a basic litmus test to draw out those who are Judas Iscariot's in our midst. These issues make things difficult when we follow such commandments as 1 Corinthians 5:11 where we are told not to even eat with one who is living in immorality or other sins as a LIFESTYLE or continuing pattern who calls themself a "Christian". This should eliminate many prosperity Gospel folks who are "swindlers"; and those practicing idolatry where a false Christ is worshipped at least in the midst of a given true fellowship of saints. There are times when we can witness to others who are in error if we are not worshipping where they are if we can have some control on the meeting situation. In short; producing good fruit is mentioned in numerous scriptures and thus only occurs with a true believer as the Parable of the Sower indicates. This is essential doctrine which is evidenced by those who are drowning in perdition due to the cares of this world overtaking them ( 1 Timothy 6:9; see also Matthew 13:23). The attitude toward authority covered in Romans 13:1-2; we are called whenever it doesn't contradict scripture to obey authorities.
The verse doesn't say that. Paul states his preference in that verse.
But in 1 Corinthians 5:3 Paul says he actually is absent in body, but present in spirit to the Corinthians.
Luke 17:37 says wherever the body is (deceased) that eagles (like vultures) gather.
Someone stating his preference to be with the Lord doesn't automatically invalidate all the other scripture in the Bible that says we will sleep (in death) until Jesus returns. But I know there's a strong incentive to believe it for funerals and because the phrase has been repeated so many times. No one skips judgment day though.
Daniel 12:2, Job 14:12, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, 1 Corinthians 15:18-20, Matthew 9:24.
Acts 20:7 makes clear that gathering of the saints occurred on the first day of the week to bolster the collection made according to 1 Corinthians 16:2. The prescident is really from the fact that Christ fulfilled Pentacost which was the 8th day of the week (or Sunday) in the O.T. times was celebrated 50 days after the Passover.
Since we are not to have certain days to be held above others as Romans 14:5-6 indicates; we have no right to dictate either Saturday or Sunday for worship as I see it. Again; the Old Testament command was for Israel specifically as anyone in the land who disrespected the Sabbath was severely punished (see Deuteronomy 5:14). Other laws in the Old Testament such as marriage were clearly upheld even with pagan societies (as we see with the case of John the Baptist when he was imprisoned for contesting with the marriage status of a secular leader married to his brother's wife). Murder was evident with Cain well before the law came out. The fact is that Saturday worship can no longer be as it was without the sacrifices and other ordinances of the O.T. times which have been gone since the temple was destroyed in 70 AD. Christ is our Passover now ( 1 Corinthians 5:7) and the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath ( Matthew 12:8).
We also need to consider what Paul stated to those who were coming from pagan societies. He said in Acts 15:29 to avoid eating blood; or strangled animals (often done in pagan rituals) as well as sexual immorality. If Saturday worship was required you would expect something would be mentioned as all other things in the Commandments which are throughout the New Testament in the Gospels and Epistles.
There are further concerns with Adventist doctrines and Ellen White which I am not going to get into detail here; but this often is an added reason for this and other issues of contention. I agree that the edict of Milan enforcing Sunday worship is wrong also.
He says this above and that not believing his opinion is "extremely dangerous doctrine". Interesting.
What matters is what God says, not one man's opinion, regardless of how loud he shouts it. I'm not aware of any scripture supporting his claim, but know of some saying the opposite.
1 Corinthians 6:19 The Word says our bodies are not our own, implying that it only temporarily hosts us.
1 Corinthians 5:3 - Paul says his spirit is present with them, although his body is absent.
Verses about sleeping awaiting judgment. The body is obviously dead, but the soul obviously is in a state of waiting.
Daniel 12:2, Job 14:12, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
What are we: a body or a soul/spirit? If a hand gets cut off do we really lose part of our soul too, or is it just a physical appendage separate from us?
Many have out of body experiences- well documented in books and videos, where people have hovered over their bodies watching and noticing things they could not have noticed if they were actually confined to their body.
In summary, Biblical evidence and personal testimony evidence does not support that claim above.
Yes, Momsage, man will always have free will & be able to make choices in life (a gift granted by God). What I've tried to show from my comment you referred to, is that when God by His Spirit is indwelling & controlling His child, the child, though having free will & maybe somewhat self-willed, will always be under the Spirit's watchful Ministry - and this can include correction, warning, discipline, even death (so that the "spirit may be saved": 1 Corinthians 5:5).
From what the Word tells me about the Work of the Spirit, is that a truly saved person, though subject to correction will be kept by HIS Power & not ours: 1 Peter 1:3-5 "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy HATH begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, TO an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth NOT away, RESERVED in heaven for you, Who are KEPT by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." All of God's Work & according to His Promise; or else, we can be popping in & out of salvation (re-birth) at will, making mockery of God's faultless & unfailing work.
Thank you for the testimony of you & your husband's 'salvation', your departure from the Lord & subsequent joyful return. I think many of us can testify similarly of such an experience - but in each case, we have to rely on God's Work & Word & the knowledge that "the foundation of God standeth sure, having this SEAL, The Lord KNOWETH them that are his. And, Let everyone that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity" ( 2 Timothy 2:19). I believe that those whom the Lord seals (& He alone knows them by name), can never be un-sealed. As in your case, or even with me, having at one stage left the Lord & enjoyed the world's offerings, & then returned, it is the Lord's application of His Work in our lives - and this Work usually testifies well through personal testimony. Blessings.
"But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat."
I don't want to go into this like I'm carrying a hammer, and like THOR, here I am, coming to pound you on the head with my judgement. No, instead I come to you as I would want someone to come to me. There are some things that just shouldn't be talked about in front of large audiences, and some would argue "But it says rebuke before all!!". My goodness, if that's the way we were all treated we wouldn't last too long in this now would we? I think it's easier to just do, and not say a word. People will usually get the hint. Most will at least, and those who don't will learn fast that living a double life will eventually reveal itself, and there won't be no hiding it. "But you're going against the word". Am I? The bible says to love one another as I have loved you. To love our neighbor as ourselves. JESUS didn't announce all of your sins did he? No, he didn't. The reason I'm even touching on this subject has to do with my own stinking attitude, and I never really thought about it this way, until now. Isn't that something. God has given me clarity, and he wants you to be free from that sort of dictator like spirit and attitude. It's God's church, and he'll clean house when the time comes for him to do so. We just need to keep truckin! Keep living for Jesus. I'm good with finding another seat, or simply saying to a brother "I'm sorry, but I'm no longer interested". There's just a better way to go about it, than becoming emotionally involved to where it causes us to sink down to a level GOD has not purposed for us to be on. I don't comment on here much, but when I do, I feel like I'm being led of GOD to do so. I hope that this is clear, and hopefully it will help you as it has helped me. May GOD bless you richly!
To avoid them, you have to know who they are. You can't avoid somebody if you don't know who they are. This idea of identifying and avoiding shows up in
1 Corinthians 5:11;
2 Thessalonians 3:6,
2 Thessalonians 3:14;
2 Timothy 3:5;
2 John 1:10.
In other words, Christians, and shepherds in particular, should be discerning and alert to behavior and teaching that dishonors Christ and destroys people - and not treat it in a casual or harmless way.
And then in 1 Timothy 5:19-20, Paul went beyond just "avoid them" to "rebuke them publicly." So, speaking of elders who persist in error, he said, "Do not admit a charge against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses. As for those who persist in sin" - and that can be sin of false doctrine or sin of evil behavior, anyone who does not accept correction - "rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.."
And then Paul went on and actually named destructive false teachers:
"Demas, in love with this present world, has deserted me" 2 Timothy 4:10.
You are aware that all who are in Asia turned away from me, among whom are Phygelus and Hermogenes" 2 Timothy 1:15.
"By rejecting this [faith and a good conscience], some have made shipwreck of their faith, among whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander" 1 Timothy 1:19-20.
"Their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus" ( 2 Timothy 2:17).
Paul names at least six false teachers that the church should watch out for.
So, I infer from Jesus and Paul and Luke and John that false teaching and destructive behavior are present dangers in this fallen world for the church. And all of us - especially shepherds, pastors - should be alert and discerning to identify and, in appropriate ways, expose. In order to protect the flock, we should expose them and minimize the spread of the gangrene (as Paul calls it).
Carleton, When I speak of demonic influence, I mean that literally!! I'm not name calling. Yes, I believe in that and I believe in demons also. There is no Holy kiss for that person!! This Holy kiss of acceptance is to and for the Brothern.
Romans 12:9 says Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.
Abhor means to detest, or to feel abhorrence of; hate; dislike intensely.
When someone doesn't hold the truth that's one thing, but when someone stands in the way of the preaching of the cross of Christ that's another and it's evil. That's not a brother.
Look at Paul in Philippians 3:2. Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
Paul calls them the enemies of the cross of Christ. And he says to MARK them! Philippians 3:17-19.
How do you reconcile these scriptures?
1 Corinthians 5:6-13.
2 Corinthians 6:14-18.
Listen to Paul in Titus 2:15. To rebuke someone is to admonish or convict. convince one of a fault. "This is from brother to Brother. Him you kiss, not an enemy of the cross of Christ.
We have those amongst us that promote a legalistic means of Justification that the scriptures identifies them as "Enemies of the cross of Christ." The scripture doesn't say greet them with an Holy kiss. In fact it says "Mark them which walk so"
However atleast they promote righteous living! They're just not justified before God in their efforts without a rebirth.
This person here in question, for the past three years or so doesn't promote righteous living at all! And they don't promote the acceptance of the work of Christ on the Cross as THE means for salvation! Would you say he's a Brother?
4,5) - "In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
To deliver such an one unto Satan FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF THE FLESH, THAT THE SPIRIT MAY BE SAVED IN THE DAY OF THE LORD JESUS.
I don't believe Paul is talking about condemnation as to one's salvation.
He's not talking about forgiveness of sins. He's talking about excommunicating this person.
The Corinthians was a proud church and continuing on as if there was nothing wrong. Delivering him to Satan for the destruction of the flesh would be his just punishment.
This is chastening not condemning.
( that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.)
This would cause him to repent, I will come to that later.
As we read on in the following verses we see where Paul urges them to not keep company with evil doers of the world.
He is now writing them to not keep company with any man that is called a brother that's an evil doer.
A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. ( 1 Corinthians 5:6-13.
Back to the evil doer in question. I believe here in 2 Corinthians 2:2-11 we have the account where this guy repented from those evil deeds.
Paul was coming down on the whole congregation for this cause.
I believe this account is in
2 Corinthians 7:8-12.
Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. ( That's Christ. )
We are commissioned to preach Christ. If a person reject Christ, that person shall be bound on earth as he or she is bound in heaven: and if that person receives Christ he or she shall loosed on earth as they are loosed in heaven.
I agree, perhaps others may like to share their thoughts.
I will mention that the remnant was 7000 out of all the Jews at that time. We see that principle with only Joshua and Caleb out of the whole generation making it into the Promised Land; Moses of course was saved but his behavior at one time kept him out.
We see also the principle of some receiving the crown or crowns for specific acts when on earth. Let us face it not everyone runs for the prize; some make it into heaven as through the fire ( 1 Cor. 3:15). Christ Himself turned away some would be disciples who didn't want to count the cost. It is possible of course to amend our ways; Christ purges more to sanctify us. There are certainly variations as to how much fruit we have; 30 fold; 50 fold; 100 fold. We can just look around to see those who are undistracted and have their lives balanced; those who are on fire for Christ we should be discerning to recognize. We all struggle with sin there is no doubt; some who claim to be believers aren't even saved while others are in various levels of maturity.
Again not a point to argue about. God can use death in order to prematurely end a life (see 1 Corinthians 11:30) where MANY sleep because they have taken communion unworthily. There are also verses in Corinthians about the body in 1 Corinthians 5:5 where God allows someone to die or get near it to preserve the soul; in other words perhaps they would have been lost if this hadn't happened because they would go so deep in sin as to be reprobate; that is only a theory.
These verses should help clarify as to where many are; and that not everyone gains the same reward just as the other principle that some suffer more in hell (see Matthew 11:21).
We explained earlier how Satan deceived this whole world ( Rev. 12:9) as confirmed in 2 Cor. 11:13-15 through the Religions of this world with the Mystery Babylon (The Roman Catholic Church) as its head and the Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth (other Religions that followed).
John 3:19. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
In my view,the preaching of the Gospel of GOD's Kingdom was beginning to be announced by JESUS,followed by the Apostles and disciples of the Lord,not to judge,but so that those who believed would be saved by knowing the Way,the Truth,and the Life.
As for"Judge not lest ye be judged",Paul Apostle explains it better than I do: Romans 14:1-12
1Him that is weak in the faith receive ye,but not to doubtful disputations.
2For one believeth that he may eat all things:another,who is weak,eateth herbs.
3Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not;and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth:for God hath received him.
4 Who art thou that judges another man's servant?to his own master he standeth or falleth.Yea, he shall be holden up:for God is able to make him stand.
5 One man esteems one day above another:another esteems every day alike.Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord;and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks;and he that eateth not,to the Lord he eateth not,and giveth God thanks.
7For none of us liveth to himself,and no man dieth to himself.
8For whether we live,we live unto the Lord;and whether we die,we die unto the Lord:whether we live therefore,or die,we are the Lord's.
9For to this end Christ both died,and rose,and revived,that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
10But why dost thou judge thy brother?or why dost thou set at nought thy brother?for we shall all stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ.
11For it is written,As I live,saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,and every tongue shall confess to God
12So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God
But now,in the current time of Apocalypse,Judgment is given to the saints of the most High;the saints will possess the Kingdom( Revelation 11:15-18
Here's the importance of those Perfect Tense verbs in the Greek text:
Jesus is not giving them and the church the authority to go around binding and loosing. We see this in Matthew Chapter 18, and Matthew tells us that it has do with sin.
In 1 John 3:8, the word "loosed" is used for how Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil. It is the word loosed.
When a person gets saved, they are loosed from Satan. So the church has authority to either bind someone to their sins or loose them from their sins.
What gives us that authority? It's something that has already been established in heaven!
Thou shalt bind that which has been bound already in heaven. It is a condition. And thou shall loose on earth things that shall have been loosed in heaven already.
So the church is here to declare that which has already been determined in heaven. We are only proclaimers!
What right do I have to tell anybody that they need to receive Christ and His death for them on the cross to be saved?
We (you and I) have the authority to tell people that we've got the key. We have got the key that unlocks the door. His name is Jesus!
If you receive Him, I have the authority to tell you that you have been loosed from your sins. If you refuse Him, I have the authority to tell you that if you continue to reject Him throughout your whole life, you'll be bound to your sins and you will die in your sins.
That is pretty authoritative! But I didn't make that up. That is the authority God has given to the church, you and I.
Never feel hypocritical for telling someone what has already been established in heaven and for something God has given you the authority to say!
I find that getting into arguments with those who don't want to listen is a waste of time. Yes, we should share the gospel message of salvation as the Lord leads, but what we have (Christ) is precious, and if someone refuses to listen, we simply walk away and not cast our pearls before the swine.
Now, is it wrong for us to "tell them that unrepentant sinners will go to hell?" No!
You say that you also feel somewhat hypocritical because it's not up to you to decide who goes to hell and who doesn't.
That is true. It is not up to us to decide. But, you should not feel hypocritical for telling someone that.
Please allow me to share this with you:
In Matthew 16:19, it says, "and I will give unto you the keys of the kingdom of heaven:" Here it is singular. But in Chapter 18 it is plural. So it is not just Peter, it is all of them!
Now, "keys" is a Hebrew symbol of authority. A person that had the keys was in charge. You can go back to some of the earlier documents in the Old Testament and see that the person that had the keys was in charge.
And some of the kings would get a little frustrated because whoever had the keys was in charge, and if you can't find him, of course you make the king mad, and they would have a new key bearer pretty soon!
He says I'll give you the keys. I'll give you the authority. We know that keys unlock things for entrance.
It says, and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Let me share with you what it is literally saying from the Greek:
Whatsoever thou shall bind on earth, shall (have been) bound in heaven."
Please know that this is very important to understand, and I'll give it to you again. It reads "And whatsoever thou shall bind on earth shall (have been) bound in heaven, and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, shall (have been) loosed in heaven."
Thank You Jesse. I am constantly getting in arguments with a lot of the reprobates out there, telling them to repent and seek God and Jesus. I tell them that unrepentant sinners will go to hell. They don't want to listen and I also feel somewhat hypocritical because it's not up to me to decide who goes to hell and who doesn't
Thinking about these things gives me a headache. :(
"But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat."
1 Corinthians 5:12
"For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?"
1 Corinthians 5:13
"But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person."
Blessings
The Devil: 1 Corinthians 5:9 states: For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
and Isaiah 24:21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
We read further in Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
This is the fate of those who are Raptured; to see that day when the accuser is finally cast down and his minions. To tempt us then accuse us when we fall is something God has allowed the enemy to do so we learn to trust in the Lord and rely not on our own understanding. There is a way which seems right unto a man but leads to death ( Prov. 14:12).
This subject if understood properly shows us that none of has any strength to do battle in our own efforts. We see this when the prophet Daniel encountered visions of the beast to come in the final world kingdom as well as with the angels that ministered to him. Job learned he couldn't contend with God and was apparently unaware that Satan was allowed to test him and cause much of his misery physically and in the original blitz he was on with the whirlwind that destroyed his family; the tribesmen that came down as well to ruin his crops. We need to keep this in mind or we will think that all we need to do is change our behavior to avoid repercussions or think that is the only problem. The fact is our old nature in a true believer IS in reality dead but the enemy does things to revitalize the feelings we had before we came to faith. For a true believer the new life in Christ IS what and who they really are and the old nature an illusion. The enemy induces a thought and still can elicit sin which causes God's chastisement.
1 Thessalonians 5:1-10. Agreed, 2 Peter 3:10 speaks of the Day of the Lord coming unexpectedly with the major upheaval of the heavens and Earth, as does Paul, who possibly infers that there is a wider time frame or meaning regarding that Day ( 1 Corinthians 5:5 & 2 Corinthians 1:14). In any case, it involves all things associated with Jesus' Day of appearing. So here in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-10, Paul iterates that that Day will come suddenly, thus it being a useless exercise to attempt placing it in a time frame, but as the Church is the children of God living in the light and not as those who live in darkness, that Day would not suddenly come upon them. Rather they should be comforted and fully clothed with the Spirit because God has not appointed them to His wrath (of verse 3) but to be saved from this through the Lord Jesus' (v9). If this saving from God's Wrath is to refer to His Wrath against man's sins, then there appears no reason for mentioning this in this context. His Wrath here is anger towards unbelievers at that time who will face His "sudden destruction". And to give further support to this meaning, we can look at 1 Thessalonians 1:10, Paul stating that the Church was "to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come".
Yes, Matthew chap 24 is about Jesus' Second Coming and particularly Matthew 24:29-31, that the powers of the heavens will be shaken, Jesus' appearing in the skies, the tribes of the earth mourning, and the gathering together of his Elect from all over the world. Some would assume that not only this scene is connected with 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:51,52, but also that the Elect referred to are all those in Christ. To Page 3.
As born again children, we are to behave like children of God.
We can't take our father's name in vain!
God loves us and he chasteneth those he loves.
Hebrews 12:2-8 sums it up.
"Looking unto Jesus THE AUTHOR AND FINISHER OF OUR FAITH; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
FOR WHOM THE LORD LOVETH HE CHASTENING, AND SCOURGETHE EVERY SON WHOM HE RECEIVETH.
IF YE ENDURE CHASTENING, GOD DEALETH WITH YOU AS WITH SON'S; FOR WHAT SON IS HE WHOM THE FATHER CHASTENING NOT?
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
We know our Great Shepherd voice! The Lord keeps his sheep in line whether by chastening or even by death but he will never let us depart from him and he will never forsake us as we see in
1 Corinthians 5:5!
"To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, THAT THE SPIRIT MAY BE SAVED IN THE DAY OF THE LORD JESUS.
Also.
Man righteousness is as filthy rags!
Thank God for blood of the Lamb that made us righteousness before the eyes of our Father!
I couldn't grab hold of salvation with my filthy rags and I certainly cannot restore salvation with my filthy rags.
Praise God for this new heart of flesh that causes us to WALK in his statues and praise God for his rod when I don't!
Blessings!
In walking with God Jesus allows the enemy to gain strongholds on us because of unrepentant sin. This seems like a no brainer and a concept we all should understand but there is much to be learned about the enemy's tactics.
Again; I am absolutely convinced that this is one of the Lord's chief ways of sanctifying us. On one hand we are instructed in general as the woman caught in adultery to "go and sin no more" ( John 8:11). Now this was a case specific LIFESTYLE sin where she came within the brink of death; it reminds us of the man killed who had been a paralytic for decades not to sin anymore lest something "worse" happen to him. ( John 5:14). In this case we see a man healed although we don't know if he was saved; as with many other individuals. For a believer as I stated in an earlier post today an early demise isn't outside of the realm of possibility for us. The idea here is that it is a chastisement; for instance in 1 Corinthians 5:5.
Now we don't know necessarily if someone is a false convert to begin with (a tare) or a believer in Christ. God could take out a tare as well but in general when we see those in lifestyles of sin who likely are tares they don't have any conviction from the Spirit except to avoid being caught and God lets them build up wrath until fully ripe; as it were in their sins. The basic point here is that a TRUE BELIEVER IS God's child; whether making it into heaven with great reward or as through the fire. It is a pathetic thing when the latter happens but often ignored is the idea of spiritual maturity and the loss of those who will forfeit eternal rewards ( Rev. 3:11). What there won't be is any desire to argue with God or those who will rule as kings and priests; at least during the Millennium. Don't get me wrong ALL of us will be ever grateful to be with the Lord but nonethess ( Heb. 11:6) shows we must believe He is a rewarder which implies crowns in heaven.
The above is what sinful man's response is to the Gospel & the Holy Spirit's change that has happened internally & will exhibit externally as the Spirit is allowed to work in that redeemed life. However, your question is about the "unrepentant believer" continuing in unabated sin. Are we in a position to know whether that unrepentant believer is even a believer? As the apostle did, so we must do also: share the Gospel with them, show God's requirements, give God's warnings, teach and encourage from the Bible, nurture and help. Where sin was rampant in a person's life, where false teaching was brought in to distort the Truth, where believers are led towards sin instead of godliness, and the works of Satan are seen in the person rather than the works of the Holy Spirit which leads to brokenness, repentance & change, then that person is an imposter & to be identified as such & consigned to the world of darkness (as the apostles did).
But a true believer is sealed & adopted into the family of God & he will know when he strays or plays with sin by the Spirit speaking within him. If he resists the Spirit's warning & encouragement, then punishment, even death ensues, so "that the spirit might be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus" ( 1 Corinthians 5:5). I don't believe that any true believer will enter the Lake of Fire; if God sends him there, it is accepted that they were unbelievers without a Spirit-filled, Spirit-led life on Earth - just imposters defaming the LORD's Name & leading His people astray.
So, I see these as two separate events (justice from an earthly judge & from an Heavenly Judge); the first is limited to what is evident before Him, the other, is the sickness of sin in the heart that condemns, for which no time can be served or penalty paid, except through faith in God's Act of Love in sending His Son as our substitute in judgement and payment.
2. (Physical Punishment vs Emotional Punishment). I don't believe that the Bible records such specifics as you have given (i.e. the intangible, emotional wounds that people cause to others). We are simply told that any sin (whether murder, rape, or even down to hurtful comments or 'white lies') are all sin. For the unbeliever who engages in any sin, his own conscience will dictate whether he continues in it or alters his course. For the believer, who is a true believer with the Holy Spirit within and in charge, no sin can ever be committed without that Holy Voice alerting him to impending sin or sin engaged in. What does a believer then do? He repents, finding forgiveness, & turns from that sin, now restored into a healthy relationship with the LORD. If he refuses to heed the Spirit, then discipline in some form follows ( Hebrews 12:5-11 is worth reading). And if he continues to disregard God's warnings, then God might just remove that life, so that the spirit might be saved at Christ's appearing ( 1 Corinthians 5:1-5).
Onto Page 4 (the last one I hope).
Perhaps a good way to start this commentary series is to focus on what we should NOT be praying about. John makes it clear from scripture we shouldn't pray about a sin leading to death ( 1 John 5:16). Paul sort of expands on that when expelling a brother when he says that: To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. ( 1 Cor. 5:5). These verses show that we indeed should desire a person returns to fellowship as the man did who committed the heinous sin of sleeping with his father's wife ( 2 Corinthians 2:7-8); which I assume the verse on restoration is referring to from 1 Corinthians.
Now the 10000 dollar question is what sin leads to death; clearly the result of all sins is death; but we could say someone who murders someone could qualify for that particular sin. Or in the above verses we should pray that through God's discipline someone repents not pray for them to be restored before repenting; or seek somehow to circumvent God's clear instructions not to fellowship with those who proclaim Christ but live i willful lifestyles of sin We see in 1 Corinthians 5:11 that particular instruction.
I think from these verses there are proper times when we should pray for conviction of sin; and that applies to a professed Christian who is either lapsing in sin or has progressed or never removed themselves from such a lifestyle but our approach is different. The nonbeliever MUST be convicted as John 16:8 states so that sin; righteousness and judgment to come are paramount in their fear of God that is the beginning of wisdom. ( Proverbs 9:10).
Too many people seem to think that rebuke and prayers for conviction and lovingkindness; mercy and compassion are mutually exclusive. We need only to look at Christ to see how both exist; with more warnings of hell than statements about heaven; and yet sacrificing His life throughout his earthly ministry and atoning death.
Study into many cults shows similarities to the many revivals as to women being at the very least venerated as "Prophets" and in some cases practically deified and worshipped along with a spurious version of Christ. There are some exceptions with Whitfield and the Edwards and some others as to what appear to be true moves of God of repentance; and we need to look at the fruits of those who are in charge of such events to avoid deception to proliferate to the masses. I have stated before that a lack of Discipleship is evident particularly in the last 100 years when there were large revival or tent meetings; and this also reflects the weakness of the churches who have been present that some attend after conversion. I would state that people who repent at such gatherings should plan to work with local churches and vice versa and not plan on any type of movement to last for a great length of time. Certainly prayer and other necessary functions in the local churches must be emphasized for any long lasting true movements of God. The emphasis must be as it was with the sermon "sinners in the hands of an angry God" (Jonathan Edwards) rather than seeking an experience.
1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
It doesn't take much in studying many so called Apostles or revival leaders to see evidence of many of these bad fruits.
I pray we see more producing good fruit in time.
However, I would seek your impressions or understanding of the passage you quoted ( Romans 2:1-4) and also 1 Corinthians 5:9-13. I believe the latter one commands the Church to judge anyone who is "called a brother" & deal with him for his sins, by separation from him and excommunication. Yet, Romans 2:1-4 seems to denounce any judgement, knowing that the same sins are committed and we all stand under God's Judgement.
So, the problem I see here is, to whom is the apostle referring to in Romans? In chapter 1, he clearly is referring to the unsaved Gentiles ( Romans 1:18-32), showing their idolatry, lusts, & many sins. But when the apostle continues on in chapter 2, it now seems that the unsaved Jew is being spoken of, as those who are now hypocrites, judging others when their own sins are exposed. His use of "O Man, whosoever thou art that judgest" (v1) and "Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law" (v17), indicates that Paul is now speaking to/about the unsaved Jew, who are no different to the Gentile, in their hypocrisy & unjust judgement.
The point I'm making here is, given those Scripture portions for consideration, I wonder what the limitations of the Church or even an individual believer are in this matter of judgement. Clearly, the elders have to continually make judgements against others (whether they choose to do so by identifying them, counseling, warning, or expulsion), and we too as individual believers need to recognize sinning wayward congregants, therefore making some type of judgement against them (whether done internally in our hearts or not). Maybe judgement is allowed after all, yet it must always be a 'righteous judgement', without hypocrisy & knowing that we still have to answer to the Lord for our thoughts, words & actions.
Peter wanted to kill one of the high priest' s servant when Jesus was taken .
Jesus Christ was not having anyone to fight for him, he stopped it right away.
John 18:10
Then SimonPeterhaving a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his rightear. The servant's name was Malchus.
Apostle Paul pray that the young man should be taken by Satan because of the relationship between him and his stepmother . I truly believe, Apostle Paul regret saying that and repented.
1 Corinthians 5:5
To deliver such an one untoSatanfor the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
I had a Pastor that prayed that God would take away his backsliding sister, she was a bad testimony for the church. Years past on, my Pastor wife passed away and he got remarried and then my Pastor died. I loved the man, but I think he man a mistake. God will love who he wants to love.
Romans 9:13
As it is written,Jacobhave I loved, but Esau have I hated.
We will never know God's thoughts. I can never look at someone and say because they said this and that, they should never live. It's God choice to let Satan to take us out.
Isaiah 55:8
Formythoughtsare not yourthoughts, neither are your waysmyways, saith theLord.
May we all live a great life with Jesus Christ and continues the race and finish it in Faith.
Ray, in Christ Jesus 1 Corinthians 15:1-4
Heaven is waiting for all of us.
I need to remind myself more and more often that all the events we see in the world today are just a reflection of what is going on in high places today; with the raging spiritual war in the 2nd heaven. Of course it is only through the 3rd heaven; exercising the authority through the Spirit of the power of Christ above that enables us to actually engage in any combat to resist the legions of evil that are controlling the masses today.
The sad fact is that many professing believers aren't really in the faith at all; and the rest that are only have a small segment that are in this "vertical" aspect in the spiritual realm. In terms of what is proclaimed; therefore in the first example people are calling on endless blessings by making presumptuous proclamations and twisting certain verses to align with their own agendas. In the second case; for all those who have the potential to be in the battle many aren't protected with the proper armor or are not offensively fighting with the sword of the Spirit as Ephesians 12 tells us to do as our only offensive weapon we have.
It is one thing to preach of God's love and forgiveness to God's enemies as Jesus did; selflessly until death. People can over or underemphasize the fact of man's depravity and enmity with God with humans; but with demons and Satan himself we dare not make the mistake of viewing them as anything but enemies; out to steal; kill and destroy both our own lives as individuals through various means such as intimidation; accusation and temptation but also controlling the whole world system (world; flesh and devil).
Here is some practical advice.
1 Corinthians 5:11
James 1:26
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Jude 1:23
2 Timothy 3:13
Ephesians 5:11-12
2 Corinthians 6:17
1 Peter 5:8-9
Proverbs 4:23-27
God is working all things according to His purposes for our good. To be tried we are tested to see what is genuine ( 1 Peter 1:7).
May God grant us the strength to endure until the end.
Angels are redeemed men, now in the kingdom of God, made ONE FLESH with Christ, the angel of God, by the death and resurrection of Christ, the angel of God's presence.
Isaiah 63:9 And in all their (man kinds) affections, he (Christ) was afflicted, and the angel (Christ) of HIS (the father's) presence SAVED THEM: in his (the Father's) love and in his (the Father's) pity, he redeemed them (by sacrificing his son), and carried them all the days of old.
Hebrews 1:17 ...Who maketh his angels SPIRITS, and his ministers (messengers) a flame of fire.
1 Corinthians 5:5 To deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the SPIRIT (his angels) might be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
God Bless You
"If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it."
In studying the entire chapter in relation to today's scripture verse we see the contrast between statements related to those of God not sinning and other verses which indicate anyone who says they are without sin are a liar and the truth not in them (actually 1 John 1:8 so I should have said in studying the entire book). I am not studying that but this verse specifically in regard to the "sin unto death" and its implications.
Paul mentions letting a man be given to Satan in 1 Corinthians 5:5:
"To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."
That could be one application. Another would be related perhaps to the law and justifiable punishment of a death penalty for homocide. It also applied to adultery although it would appear this punishment was not as common in the time of Christ and especially once the church stated to flourish towards the end of the 1st Century AD. Since the church was being addressed here the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit shouldn't be the cause; although it certainly would apply to unbelievers as the "unforgiveable sin" as mentioned in the Gospels ( Mark 3:28-29; also verses in Matthew).
The context of the rest of the verse shows how we can pray that God will heal and restore a brother caught in sin and once again emphasizes the idea of confessing our sins to one another ( James 5:16). This is also mentioned in the Gospels at initial salvation ( Matt. 3:6) and most often to God Himself in a plethora of other scriptures. Matthew 5:23-24 speaks of leaving a "gift before the altar" and restoring relationship with a brother which alludes to the Old Testament sacrifice but certainly is applicable now. Sin hurts us and others.
Your statement that "If a person lives a life of a true believer then they are saved. If a person lives a life of sin then they need to repent and accept Christ as their Savior in order to be saved", is true but simplistic. What it is lacking, is God's Work of salvation, of placing the seal of His Spirit in us, of securing, of adoption, of power, of correction even death. It might be one thing when we can observe a person who shows all the marks of a faithful Christian & we believe & accept that person as part of God's family. But it becomes quite another thing to know what the unseen life of the person actually is and how faithful he will be under temptation, persecution, or death. We may not know the person's state, but God knows & I believe, the 'Christian' himself will know.
The other aspect of this errant belief is that a Christian can be saved, yet step in and out of the faith, at will. Can we ever assume that God can be played with, with His Holy Spirit popping in & out of a person according to one's estrangement from the Lord & subsequent repentance? I don't see this happening anywhere in Scripture, rather that we remain very diligent in the salvation given us ( Philippians 2:12), not for fear of losing it, but to avoid the correction & discipline of the Lord ( Hebrews 12:5-11) when we sin; or even having to lose our lives if correction goes unheeded so that our spirits might yet be saved ( 1 Corinthians 5:1-5).
The Lord's Work is always gracious towards His children - He knows those who are His - He won't let us go.
When we get into practical things; for instance the last few chapters of Romans after the lengthy dissertation on the depravity of man (no one is rightous); and the "Gospel of Grace" related to covenants and the like; there could be a tendancy to discount our behaviors as being as important as these doctrinal truths. The fact is they are both important and we can't live bearing good fruit without following the truth and showing obedient love for Christ with our lifestyles. We only need to look at Luke 6:46 to see the importance of doing what He says; and John 14:15 which shows that if we love Him we will obey His commandments. The basic command to love one another is seen in both the Gospel of John and first John as a necessary mandate for a true brother in Christ. This should be a basic litmus test to draw out those who are Judas Iscariot's in our midst. These issues make things difficult when we follow such commandments as 1 Corinthians 5:11 where we are told not to even eat with one who is living in immorality or other sins as a LIFESTYLE or continuing pattern who calls themself a "Christian". This should eliminate many prosperity Gospel folks who are "swindlers"; and those practicing idolatry where a false Christ is worshipped at least in the midst of a given true fellowship of saints. There are times when we can witness to others who are in error if we are not worshipping where they are if we can have some control on the meeting situation. In short; producing good fruit is mentioned in numerous scriptures and thus only occurs with a true believer as the Parable of the Sower indicates. This is essential doctrine which is evidenced by those who are drowning in perdition due to the cares of this world overtaking them ( 1 Timothy 6:9; see also Matthew 13:23). The attitude toward authority covered in Romans 13:1-2; we are called whenever it doesn't contradict scripture to obey authorities.
The verse doesn't say that. Paul states his preference in that verse.
But in 1 Corinthians 5:3 Paul says he actually is absent in body, but present in spirit to the Corinthians.
Luke 17:37 says wherever the body is (deceased) that eagles (like vultures) gather.
Someone stating his preference to be with the Lord doesn't automatically invalidate all the other scripture in the Bible that says we will sleep (in death) until Jesus returns. But I know there's a strong incentive to believe it for funerals and because the phrase has been repeated so many times. No one skips judgment day though.
Daniel 12:2, Job 14:12, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, 1 Corinthians 15:18-20, Matthew 9:24.
Acts 20:7 makes clear that gathering of the saints occurred on the first day of the week to bolster the collection made according to 1 Corinthians 16:2. The prescident is really from the fact that Christ fulfilled Pentacost which was the 8th day of the week (or Sunday) in the O.T. times was celebrated 50 days after the Passover.
Since we are not to have certain days to be held above others as Romans 14:5-6 indicates; we have no right to dictate either Saturday or Sunday for worship as I see it. Again; the Old Testament command was for Israel specifically as anyone in the land who disrespected the Sabbath was severely punished (see Deuteronomy 5:14). Other laws in the Old Testament such as marriage were clearly upheld even with pagan societies (as we see with the case of John the Baptist when he was imprisoned for contesting with the marriage status of a secular leader married to his brother's wife). Murder was evident with Cain well before the law came out. The fact is that Saturday worship can no longer be as it was without the sacrifices and other ordinances of the O.T. times which have been gone since the temple was destroyed in 70 AD. Christ is our Passover now ( 1 Corinthians 5:7) and the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath ( Matthew 12:8).
We also need to consider what Paul stated to those who were coming from pagan societies. He said in Acts 15:29 to avoid eating blood; or strangled animals (often done in pagan rituals) as well as sexual immorality. If Saturday worship was required you would expect something would be mentioned as all other things in the Commandments which are throughout the New Testament in the Gospels and Epistles.
There are further concerns with Adventist doctrines and Ellen White which I am not going to get into detail here; but this often is an added reason for this and other issues of contention. I agree that the edict of Milan enforcing Sunday worship is wrong also.
He says this above and that not believing his opinion is "extremely dangerous doctrine". Interesting.
What matters is what God says, not one man's opinion, regardless of how loud he shouts it. I'm not aware of any scripture supporting his claim, but know of some saying the opposite.
1 Corinthians 6:19 The Word says our bodies are not our own, implying that it only temporarily hosts us.
1 Corinthians 5:3 - Paul says his spirit is present with them, although his body is absent.
Verses about sleeping awaiting judgment. The body is obviously dead, but the soul obviously is in a state of waiting.
Daniel 12:2, Job 14:12, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
What are we: a body or a soul/spirit? If a hand gets cut off do we really lose part of our soul too, or is it just a physical appendage separate from us?
Many have out of body experiences- well documented in books and videos, where people have hovered over their bodies watching and noticing things they could not have noticed if they were actually confined to their body.
In summary, Biblical evidence and personal testimony evidence does not support that claim above.
From what the Word tells me about the Work of the Spirit, is that a truly saved person, though subject to correction will be kept by HIS Power & not ours: 1 Peter 1:3-5 "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy HATH begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, TO an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth NOT away, RESERVED in heaven for you, Who are KEPT by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." All of God's Work & according to His Promise; or else, we can be popping in & out of salvation (re-birth) at will, making mockery of God's faultless & unfailing work.
Thank you for the testimony of you & your husband's 'salvation', your departure from the Lord & subsequent joyful return. I think many of us can testify similarly of such an experience - but in each case, we have to rely on God's Work & Word & the knowledge that "the foundation of God standeth sure, having this SEAL, The Lord KNOWETH them that are his. And, Let everyone that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity" ( 2 Timothy 2:19). I believe that those whom the Lord seals (& He alone knows them by name), can never be un-sealed. As in your case, or even with me, having at one stage left the Lord & enjoyed the world's offerings, & then returned, it is the Lord's application of His Work in our lives - and this Work usually testifies well through personal testimony. Blessings.
1 Corinthians 5:11
"But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat."
I don't want to go into this like I'm carrying a hammer, and like THOR, here I am, coming to pound you on the head with my judgement. No, instead I come to you as I would want someone to come to me. There are some things that just shouldn't be talked about in front of large audiences, and some would argue "But it says rebuke before all!!". My goodness, if that's the way we were all treated we wouldn't last too long in this now would we? I think it's easier to just do, and not say a word. People will usually get the hint. Most will at least, and those who don't will learn fast that living a double life will eventually reveal itself, and there won't be no hiding it. "But you're going against the word". Am I? The bible says to love one another as I have loved you. To love our neighbor as ourselves. JESUS didn't announce all of your sins did he? No, he didn't. The reason I'm even touching on this subject has to do with my own stinking attitude, and I never really thought about it this way, until now. Isn't that something. God has given me clarity, and he wants you to be free from that sort of dictator like spirit and attitude. It's God's church, and he'll clean house when the time comes for him to do so. We just need to keep truckin! Keep living for Jesus. I'm good with finding another seat, or simply saying to a brother "I'm sorry, but I'm no longer interested". There's just a better way to go about it, than becoming emotionally involved to where it causes us to sink down to a level GOD has not purposed for us to be on. I don't comment on here much, but when I do, I feel like I'm being led of GOD to do so. I hope that this is clear, and hopefully it will help you as it has helped me. May GOD bless you richly!
To avoid them, you have to know who they are. You can't avoid somebody if you don't know who they are. This idea of identifying and avoiding shows up in
1 Corinthians 5:11;
2 Thessalonians 3:6,
2 Thessalonians 3:14;
2 Timothy 3:5;
2 John 1:10.
In other words, Christians, and shepherds in particular, should be discerning and alert to behavior and teaching that dishonors Christ and destroys people - and not treat it in a casual or harmless way.
And then in 1 Timothy 5:19-20, Paul went beyond just "avoid them" to "rebuke them publicly." So, speaking of elders who persist in error, he said, "Do not admit a charge against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses. As for those who persist in sin" - and that can be sin of false doctrine or sin of evil behavior, anyone who does not accept correction - "rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.."
And then Paul went on and actually named destructive false teachers:
"Demas, in love with this present world, has deserted me" 2 Timothy 4:10.
You are aware that all who are in Asia turned away from me, among whom are Phygelus and Hermogenes" 2 Timothy 1:15.
"By rejecting this [faith and a good conscience], some have made shipwreck of their faith, among whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander" 1 Timothy 1:19-20.
"Their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus" ( 2 Timothy 2:17).
Paul names at least six false teachers that the church should watch out for.
So, I infer from Jesus and Paul and Luke and John that false teaching and destructive behavior are present dangers in this fallen world for the church. And all of us - especially shepherds, pastors - should be alert and discerning to identify and, in appropriate ways, expose. In order to protect the flock, we should expose them and minimize the spread of the gangrene (as Paul calls it).
AVOID, REBUKE, AND CALL OUT.
God bless
Part 3.
Carleton, When I speak of demonic influence, I mean that literally!! I'm not name calling. Yes, I believe in that and I believe in demons also. There is no Holy kiss for that person!! This Holy kiss of acceptance is to and for the Brothern.
Romans 12:9 says Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.
Abhor means to detest, or to feel abhorrence of; hate; dislike intensely.
When someone doesn't hold the truth that's one thing, but when someone stands in the way of the preaching of the cross of Christ that's another and it's evil. That's not a brother.
Look at Paul in Philippians 3:2. Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
Paul calls them the enemies of the cross of Christ. And he says to MARK them! Philippians 3:17-19.
How do you reconcile these scriptures?
1 Corinthians 5:6-13.
2 Corinthians 6:14-18.
Listen to Paul in Titus 2:15. To rebuke someone is to admonish or convict. convince one of a fault. "This is from brother to Brother. Him you kiss, not an enemy of the cross of Christ.
We have those amongst us that promote a legalistic means of Justification that the scriptures identifies them as "Enemies of the cross of Christ." The scripture doesn't say greet them with an Holy kiss. In fact it says "Mark them which walk so"
However atleast they promote righteous living! They're just not justified before God in their efforts without a rebirth.
This person here in question, for the past three years or so doesn't promote righteous living at all! And they don't promote the acceptance of the work of Christ on the Cross as THE means for salvation! Would you say he's a Brother?
See Part 4.
1 Corinthians 5:4-5 is the account
Here is how I understand what we are discussing.
4,5) - "In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
To deliver such an one unto Satan FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF THE FLESH, THAT THE SPIRIT MAY BE SAVED IN THE DAY OF THE LORD JESUS.
I don't believe Paul is talking about condemnation as to one's salvation.
He's not talking about forgiveness of sins. He's talking about excommunicating this person.
The Corinthians was a proud church and continuing on as if there was nothing wrong. Delivering him to Satan for the destruction of the flesh would be his just punishment.
This is chastening not condemning.
( that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.)
This would cause him to repent, I will come to that later.
As we read on in the following verses we see where Paul urges them to not keep company with evil doers of the world.
He is now writing them to not keep company with any man that is called a brother that's an evil doer.
A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. ( 1 Corinthians 5:6-13.
Back to the evil doer in question. I believe here in 2 Corinthians 2:2-11 we have the account where this guy repented from those evil deeds.
Paul was coming down on the whole congregation for this cause.
I believe this account is in
2 Corinthians 7:8-12.
Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. ( That's Christ. )
We are commissioned to preach Christ. If a person reject Christ, that person shall be bound on earth as he or she is bound in heaven: and if that person receives Christ he or she shall loosed on earth as they are loosed in heaven.
I agree, perhaps others may like to share their thoughts.
Thanks and God bless
We see also the principle of some receiving the crown or crowns for specific acts when on earth. Let us face it not everyone runs for the prize; some make it into heaven as through the fire ( 1 Cor. 3:15). Christ Himself turned away some would be disciples who didn't want to count the cost. It is possible of course to amend our ways; Christ purges more to sanctify us. There are certainly variations as to how much fruit we have; 30 fold; 50 fold; 100 fold. We can just look around to see those who are undistracted and have their lives balanced; those who are on fire for Christ we should be discerning to recognize. We all struggle with sin there is no doubt; some who claim to be believers aren't even saved while others are in various levels of maturity.
Again not a point to argue about. God can use death in order to prematurely end a life (see 1 Corinthians 11:30) where MANY sleep because they have taken communion unworthily. There are also verses in Corinthians about the body in 1 Corinthians 5:5 where God allows someone to die or get near it to preserve the soul; in other words perhaps they would have been lost if this hadn't happened because they would go so deep in sin as to be reprobate; that is only a theory.
These verses should help clarify as to where many are; and that not everyone gains the same reward just as the other principle that some suffer more in hell (see Matthew 11:21).
Agape; Rich P
John 3:19. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
About your question:Matt.7:1-2 and Luke 6:36-37
In my view,the preaching of the Gospel of GOD's Kingdom was beginning to be announced by JESUS,followed by the Apostles and disciples of the Lord,not to judge,but so that those who believed would be saved by knowing the Way,the Truth,and the Life.
As for"Judge not lest ye be judged",Paul Apostle explains it better than I do: Romans 14:1-12
1Him that is weak in the faith receive ye,but not to doubtful disputations.
2For one believeth that he may eat all things:another,who is weak,eateth herbs.
3Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not;and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth:for God hath received him.
4 Who art thou that judges another man's servant?to his own master he standeth or falleth.Yea, he shall be holden up:for God is able to make him stand.
5 One man esteems one day above another:another esteems every day alike.Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord;and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks;and he that eateth not,to the Lord he eateth not,and giveth God thanks.
7For none of us liveth to himself,and no man dieth to himself.
8For whether we live,we live unto the Lord;and whether we die,we die unto the Lord:whether we live therefore,or die,we are the Lord's.
9For to this end Christ both died,and rose,and revived,that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
10But why dost thou judge thy brother?or why dost thou set at nought thy brother?for we shall all stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ.
11For it is written,As I live,saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,and every tongue shall confess to God
12So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God
But now,in the current time of Apocalypse,Judgment is given to the saints of the most High;the saints will possess the Kingdom( Revelation 11:15-18
(Part 2):
Here's the importance of those Perfect Tense verbs in the Greek text:
Jesus is not giving them and the church the authority to go around binding and loosing. We see this in Matthew Chapter 18, and Matthew tells us that it has do with sin.
In 1 John 3:8, the word "loosed" is used for how Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil. It is the word loosed.
When a person gets saved, they are loosed from Satan. So the church has authority to either bind someone to their sins or loose them from their sins.
What gives us that authority? It's something that has already been established in heaven!
Thou shalt bind that which has been bound already in heaven. It is a condition. And thou shall loose on earth things that shall have been loosed in heaven already.
So the church is here to declare that which has already been determined in heaven. We are only proclaimers!
What right do I have to tell anybody that they need to receive Christ and His death for them on the cross to be saved?
We (you and I) have the authority to tell people that we've got the key. We have got the key that unlocks the door. His name is Jesus!
If you receive Him, I have the authority to tell you that you have been loosed from your sins. If you refuse Him, I have the authority to tell you that if you continue to reject Him throughout your whole life, you'll be bound to your sins and you will die in your sins.
That is pretty authoritative! But I didn't make that up. That is the authority God has given to the church, you and I.
Never feel hypocritical for telling someone what has already been established in heaven and for something God has given you the authority to say!
God Bless!!!
I find that getting into arguments with those who don't want to listen is a waste of time. Yes, we should share the gospel message of salvation as the Lord leads, but what we have (Christ) is precious, and if someone refuses to listen, we simply walk away and not cast our pearls before the swine.
Now, is it wrong for us to "tell them that unrepentant sinners will go to hell?" No!
You say that you also feel somewhat hypocritical because it's not up to you to decide who goes to hell and who doesn't.
That is true. It is not up to us to decide. But, you should not feel hypocritical for telling someone that.
Please allow me to share this with you:
In Matthew 16:19, it says, "and I will give unto you the keys of the kingdom of heaven:" Here it is singular. But in Chapter 18 it is plural. So it is not just Peter, it is all of them!
Now, "keys" is a Hebrew symbol of authority. A person that had the keys was in charge. You can go back to some of the earlier documents in the Old Testament and see that the person that had the keys was in charge.
And some of the kings would get a little frustrated because whoever had the keys was in charge, and if you can't find him, of course you make the king mad, and they would have a new key bearer pretty soon!
He says I'll give you the keys. I'll give you the authority. We know that keys unlock things for entrance.
It says, and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Let me share with you what it is literally saying from the Greek:
Whatsoever thou shall bind on earth, shall (have been) bound in heaven."
Please know that this is very important to understand, and I'll give it to you again. It reads "And whatsoever thou shall bind on earth shall (have been) bound in heaven, and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, shall (have been) loosed in heaven."
I am out of space so I need to send a part 2
Thinking about these things gives me a headache. :(